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Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 1 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1617<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
JumpDrives<BR>
Re: Keyboard kills & misc<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Galaxy Quest!<BR>
Re: Why use .jpg?<BR>
Re: Keyboard kills & misc<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
Re: JumpDrives<BR>
Re: Y2K<BR>
Re: "Starflight" and "Starflight 2: Trade Routes of the Cloud Nebula"<BR>
Re: JumpDrives<BR>
Re: JumpDrives<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Cons<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: FW: Government Overkill<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message<BR>
Re Galaxy Quest<BR>
Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message<BR>
Re: Free Trader plans<BR>
Re: Strange Random UWP's<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 18:02:15 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: JumpDrives<BR>
<BR>
    When a Jump Drive is engaged, does it . . .<BR>
1, expend all it's fuel at once by launching the jump and then coast for a<BR>
week?<BR>
2, expend half of its fuel opening a "Jump Gate," use its manoeuvre drive to<BR>
negotiate the "Jump Tunnel" for a week and then expend the remaining half of<BR>
it's jump fuel opening another "Jump Gate" to real space?<BR>
3, expend all it's fuel in a steady usage over the jump time? (I always<BR>
thought this was the case, but if you have a six day trip, won't you save<BR>
fuel?)<BR>
<BR>
    I kind of like "2," it gives the engineers something to do taskwise near<BR>
the end of the jump and the pilot must make sure that they've travelled the<BR>
correct distance down the jump tunnel. Misjumps become even more interesting<BR>
in that the barrier to realspace is too effective for the jump drive to<BR>
pierce with a jump gate. A drive failure in jump space doesn't drop you out<BR>
though, your stuck there until you fix it unless you come up with some cute<BR>
rule like "if you don't maintain (x) velocity you drop out into realspace"<BR>
but that looks a bit corny to me.<BR>
    jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 22:45:55 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Keyboard kills & misc<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Thomas Vickers wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
>>Nah, Sable is a mercenary.<BR>
>><BR>
>>(Mike Grell's comic series from the eighties)<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
> And here I was thinking I was the only person to own a complete John Sable,<BR>
> Freelance set of Comics. There must be two of us in the world :)<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
> Three. I keep 'em in a box with my copies of _Grimjack_ and <BR>
> _American Flagg_.  :-)<BR>
<BR>
I prefer Grell's old "Warlord"(?) series. The one with the SR-71 pilot<BR>
in Pellucidar?<BR>
<BR>
What I like most was the pilot's idea of a proper "survival kit". :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 23:01:49 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Happy new year to all on the TML!!!<BR>
><BR>
>  Has anybody heard any Y2K problems yet, or can I start laughing at the <BR>
> doomsayers? :-)<BR>
<BR>
I've heard of one big electric company sending out bills with a due<BR>
date in Jan 1900. This was followed by a comment by the newscaster<BR>
about no Y2k problems having been noted so far. :-(<BR>
<BR>
<sigh> It'd be nice if the people reporting this stuff had some idea<BR>
what it was all about.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 22:36:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Galaxy Quest!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Two comments--funny movie, and does anybody else see the potential<BR>
> for a "silly" Traveller adventure that I see?<BR>
><BR>
> Picture a dozen or so TML'ers, picked up by aliens who've been<BR>
> monitoring the discussions on near-C rocks, pirates, fleet tactics,<BR>
> et al., and think we're actually as smart as *we* think we are ...<BR>
<BR>
I was involved in a D&D campaign with a similar premise once. The GM<BR>
quickly realized that he'd made a big mistake. I was able to descrivbe<BR>
*from memory( how to extract saltpeter, and how to make gunpowder. I<BR>
could also detail how to produce sulfuric, hydrochloric and nitric<BR>
acids. <BR>
<BR>
I designed a setup to produce calcium carbide and "explosion proof"<BR>
miner's lamps. Which got me rich enough to carry out the experiments<BR>
that would get me things like phosgene. <BR>
<BR>
Another player was a physics major. He and I started discussing how to<BR>
build a breeder reactor (using orcs and condemned criminals to work in<BR>
the high radiation areas). And how to extract the plutonium, and<BR>
construct a bomb. <BR>
<BR>
The GM decided it was time to end the campaign. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 22:34:47 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Why use .jpg?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Would that be the Techtronics 40/51 graphics terminal with disk interface?<BR>
Actually, what I had (and never got around to getting working) was a<BR>
41xx computer with a tape drive, and essentially a 4010 as the display.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 23:08:58 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Keyboard kills & misc<BR>
<BR>
Frank Pitt <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:<BR>
> So, anyone used Flagg in a Traveller game ?<BR>
<BR>
Oddly, I cannot think of a character named Flagg without<BR>
thinking of the screwball from the CIA on M*A*S*H.  I have<BR>
used variation on him on several occassions.  One of my<BR>
favorites was called Pennant.  And one was called Banner.  I<BR>
just love names like that, after such an encounter, the PCPs<BR>
are looking at everything to see a hidden meaning.  When<BR>
they start suggesting some you can modify the situation to<BR>
meet thier perception or not as you see fit.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 23:24:23 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
Craig Lytton <polecat@ezwv.com> wrote:<BR>
> I am not a lawyer, so if any of this is inaccurate, I apologize.<BR>
<BR>
The stuff you posted seems pretty accurate, but somewhat<BR>
dated.  Police officers are no longer required to give the<BR>
"Miranda Notification."  I understand that many departments<BR>
still do, mostly to keep their people honest.  Last time I was<BR>
arrested, I was not ready my rights, but they certainly made<BR>
sure I signed a document stating what they were and that I<BR>
understood them before they would release me.<BR>
<BR>
Well, that's what I get for upsetting the local yokels.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 01:35:05 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: JumpDrives<BR>
<BR>
Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>     When a Jump Drive is engaged, does it . . .<BR>
> 1, expend all it's fuel at once by launching the jump and then coast for a<BR>
> week?<BR>
> 2, expend half of its fuel opening a "Jump Gate," use its manoeuvre drive to<BR>
> negotiate the "Jump Tunnel" for a week and then expend the remaining half of<BR>
> it's jump fuel opening another "Jump Gate" to real space?<BR>
> 3, expend all it's fuel in a steady usage over the jump time? (I always<BR>
> thought this was the case, but if you have a six day trip, won't you save<BR>
> fuel?)<BR>
<BR>
Oh, dear.  Another "what happens to all that fuel?" debate is about to<BR>
begin.  *sigh*<BR>
<BR>
Canonically, based on the existence of drop tanks (described in several<BR>
canon sources), all the fuel required for jump is expended in jump<BR>
initiation.<BR>
<BR>
Many players are not satisfied with this answer, which leads to<BR>
interminable arguments.<BR>
<BR>
Note that answer #1, although supported by canon (drop tanks), leads to<BR>
two heresies:<BR>
<BR>
1.  Ships with _no_ jump fuel tankage onboard, relying solely on drop<BR>
tanks for jump fuel (obviously, this allows ships with both high jump<BR>
numbers and large cargo capacity, factors which are mutually exclusive<BR>
if a ship must carry its own jump fuel).<BR>
<BR>
2.  Ships which receive their jump capacitor charge from an external<BR>
source (this allows for high-jump ships with neither jump fuel nor<BR>
high-capacity power plants).<BR>
<BR>
Neither answer #2 nor answer #3 are supported by canon (since drop tanks<BR>
can't work in either case), and are therefore heretical by definition.<BR>
<BR>
These potential heresies explain why most TMLers prefer to, shall we<BR>
say, wash their hands and look aside while ships engage their jump<BR>
drives....<BR>
> <BR>
>     I kind of like "2," it gives the engineers something to do taskwise near<BR>
> the end of the jump and the pilot must make sure that they've travelled the<BR>
> correct distance down the jump tunnel. Misjumps become even more interesting<BR>
> in that the barrier to realspace is too effective for the jump drive to<BR>
> pierce with a jump gate. A drive failure in jump space doesn't drop you out<BR>
> though, your stuck there until you fix it unless you come up with some cute<BR>
> rule like "if you don't maintain (x) velocity you drop out into realspace"<BR>
> but that looks a bit corny to me.<BR>
<BR>
The problem I see with this approach (besides the fact that it violates<BR>
canon regarding drop tanks) is that it implies a jumpspace (relatively)<BR>
full of misjumped starships.  If ships can remain in jumpspace<BR>
indefinitely, then there could be some way to learn to interact with<BR>
ships lost in jumpspace.  In which case, one could make a living<BR>
"rescuing" ships from jumpspace, with much less risk than p*r*cy. <BR>
Besides, the standard description of misjumps states that the affected<BR>
ship _emerges_ from jumpspace at its randomly-determined location [T4,<BR>
page 116].<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 02:38:53 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/31/99 10:02:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
jimpeta@primus.com.au writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  Quick! Into the bunker!<BR>
     Here in Australia all the Y2K warnings have come true! We are knee deep<BR>
 in penguins! The lights have gone out! There's havoc and mayhem, rioting in<BR>
 the streets! Run, while you have time! Oh, how I wish I had put aside a<BR>
 bunch of food, guns and guns! Then all this would happen to someone else,<BR>
 run while you have tim . . . .<BR>
 <BR>
 <BR>
 <BR>
     Sorry. Couldn't resist it.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
ROTFLMAO!!! Honorary kill here....:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 02:35:50 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: "Starflight" and "Starflight 2: Trade Routes of the Cloud Nebula"<BR>
<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Anyone remember these?  Anyone ever figure out a way to connect<BR>
> them to Traveller?  Anyone want to contact me privately so I can<BR>
> tell you some non-public things about them?<BR>
<BR>
Yes, I remember them very well. Starflight is simply the best computer game<BR>
of all time, period, bar none. It had depth and a linear storyline which<BR>
could be approached in a non-linear fashion. I played that game, happily,<BR>
for six months. The whole game fit on 5.25 floppies. I flew through Baldur's<BR>
Gate, on five CDs, in a little over a week.<BR>
<BR>
Um... Sorry.<BR>
<BR>
I did start work on running a game in the Starflight universe, using the<BR>
MegaTraveller rules, a few years back. Since then I've lost all of the work<BR>
I did.<BR>
<BR>
I'll contact you privately as well.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 20:41:18 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: JumpDrives<BR>
<BR>
On 1 Jan 00, at 1:35, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> >     When a Jump Drive is engaged, does it . . .<BR>
> > 1, expend all it's fuel at once by launching the jump and then coast for<BR>
> > a week? 2, expend half of its fuel opening a "Jump Gate," use its<BR>
> > manoeuvre drive to negotiate the "Jump Tunnel" for a week and then<BR>
> > expend the remaining half of it's jump fuel opening another "Jump Gate"<BR>
> > to real space? 3, expend all it's fuel in a steady usage over the jump<BR>
> > time? (I always thought this was the case, but if you have a six day<BR>
> > trip, won't you save fuel?)<BR>
> <BR>
> Oh, dear.  Another "what happens to all that fuel?" debate is about to<BR>
> begin.  *sigh*<BR>
<BR>
I hereby declare the Y2K flamewar cycle open! Sign up now! Ladies and <BR>
Gentlemen take your places!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 01:55:28 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: JumpDrives<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On 1 Jan 00, at 1:35, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >     When a Jump Drive is engaged, does it . . .<BR>
> > > 1, expend all it's fuel at once by launching the jump and then coast for<BR>
> > > a week? 2, expend half of its fuel opening a "Jump Gate," use its<BR>
> > > manoeuvre drive to negotiate the "Jump Tunnel" for a week and then<BR>
> > > expend the remaining half of it's jump fuel opening another "Jump Gate"<BR>
> > > to real space? 3, expend all it's fuel in a steady usage over the jump<BR>
> > > time? (I always thought this was the case, but if you have a six day<BR>
> > > trip, won't you save fuel?)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Oh, dear.  Another "what happens to all that fuel?" debate is about to<BR>
> > begin.  *sigh*<BR>
> <BR>
> I hereby declare the Y2K flamewar cycle open! Sign up now! Ladies and<BR>
> Gentlemen take your places!<BR>
<BR>
*yellow penalty flag, weighted with 3 ounces of BBs, thrown (not at a<BR>
player's face)*<BR>
<BR>
"Encroachment, on the defense, moving before the Y2K ball was snapped on<BR>
the US West Coast of the TML.  Five yard penalty, repeat first down."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 02:49:28 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
From: Jim & Peta Lawrie <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>     Big improvement over last year, when the moon was blown out of<BR>
> orbit and carried  the moon base into deep space.<BR>
<BR>
Well, if you ask me, the world's been on something of a downward slide ever<BR>
since that war hero turned criminal saved the President from the prison city<BR>
of New York (walled off in 1988, when the crime rate in the United States<BR>
rose an astonishing 400%, man, *that* was a hellish time). That wouldn't<BR>
have been so bad, but that guy who saved the President sabotaged the<BR>
Hartford summit, which could have ended the brutal Soviet-American War.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 23:55:31 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Cons<BR>
<BR>
I would be helpful if you would say where a Con will be held<BR>
when you start talking about one.  Some of us have been<BR>
transplanted and don't know what Cons might be local,<BR>
intrastate or transtate, and therefore, possibly reachable for<BR>
attendance.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 03:01:46 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/31/99 10:58:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
cybernaut@netzero.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< I'm on the u.S. left coast, so we haven't passed the midnight<BR>
 mark just yet; however, let me remind you that if those<BR>
 "doomsayers" hadn't been screaming for the fix, there would<BR>
 likely have been nothing done about it.  Could you imagine<BR>
 what that would have been like? >><BR>
<BR>
Perhaps you misunderstood me. I meant the knuckleheads running out to buy a <BR>
years supply of MREs, generators, etc...:-).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 03:08:21 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: FW: Government Overkill<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/31/99 10:10:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
dlpulver@kos.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< The shuttle flew with a pure oxygen environment... >><BR>
<BR>
I thought we went to air after the Apollo I fire?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 02:13:59 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> From: Jim & Peta Lawrie <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
> <BR>
> >     Big improvement over last year, when the moon was blown out of<BR>
> > orbit and carried  the moon base into deep space.<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, if you ask me, the world's been on something of a downward slide ever<BR>
> since that war hero turned criminal saved the President from the prison city<BR>
> of New York (walled off in 1988, when the crime rate in the United States<BR>
> rose an astonishing 400%, man, *that* was a hellish time). That wouldn't<BR>
> have been so bad, but that guy who saved the President sabotaged the<BR>
> Hartford summit, which could have ended the brutal Soviet-American War.<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, ever since the Twilight War began, I figure that I've been living<BR>
on borrowed time since 01 January 1998, when the 82d Airborne Division<BR>
linked up with the 24th Infantry Division (Mech) in central Iran.  As a<BR>
jump-qualified interrogator, who speaks both Arabic (often found in<BR>
Iran) and Russian (the Sovs were driving south through Iran early in the<BR>
Twilight War), I was attached to the 82d for their jump near Tabriz in<BR>
October 1997.  Got the Silver Star for taking an enemy ZPU-4 position<BR>
overlooking the drop zone, and turning it on the enemy.  (Of course, the<BR>
citation didn't mention that I did it by throwing a smoke grenade that I<BR>
had filled with CS [tear gas] powder, in direct violation of US policy<BR>
concerning "riot-control" agents....)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 02:19:48 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In a message dated 12/31/99 10:58:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,<BR>
> cybernaut@netzero.net writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> << I'm on the u.S. left coast, so we haven't passed the midnight<BR>
>  mark just yet; however, let me remind you that if those<BR>
>  "doomsayers" hadn't been screaming for the fix, there would<BR>
>  likely have been nothing done about it.  Could you imagine<BR>
>  what that would have been like? >><BR>
> <BR>
> Perhaps you misunderstood me. I meant the knuckleheads running out to buy a<BR>
> years supply of MREs, generators, etc...:-).<BR>
<BR>
Having "lived" on MREs for two weeks straight (in other words, MREs with<BR>
_no_ other food available), I figure that three cases of MREs (36 meals)<BR>
would be a year's worth; I'd probably go "Donner Party" by the time I<BR>
had eaten 36 MREs in a row....<BR>
<BR>
For those of you in the combat arms who think that I overstate the<BR>
unpleasantness of MREs:  Hey, I'm a Military Intelligence semi-REMF; I<BR>
shouldn't _have_ to eat MREs for three weeks straight!  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 03:27:30 -0500<BR>
From: "Craig Lytton" <polecat@ezwv.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
I dont think its required, but most departments require reading it just to<BR>
make sure there won't be any problems in court.<BR>
<BR>
- -Craig<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jason T. Barnabas <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 2:24 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Craig Lytton <polecat@ezwv.com> wrote:<BR>
> > I am not a lawyer, so if any of this is inaccurate, I apologize.<BR>
><BR>
> The stuff you posted seems pretty accurate, but somewhat<BR>
> dated.  Police officers are no longer required to give the<BR>
> "Miranda Notification."  I understand that many departments<BR>
> still do, mostly to keep their people honest.  Last time I was<BR>
> arrested, I was not ready my rights, but they certainly made<BR>
> sure I signed a document stating what they were and that I<BR>
> understood them before they would release me.<BR>
><BR>
> Well, that's what I get for upsetting the local yokels.<BR>
> --<BR>
> Jason<BR>
> ______________________________________________<BR>
>     The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
> http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
> Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
> <BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> __________________________________________<BR>
> NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
> Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
> http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 21:19:50 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
On 1 Jan 00, at 2:19, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > In a message dated 12/31/99 10:58:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,<BR>
> > cybernaut@netzero.net writes:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > << I'm on the u.S. left coast, so we haven't passed the midnight<BR>
> >  mark just yet; however, let me remind you that if those<BR>
> >  "doomsayers" hadn't been screaming for the fix, there would<BR>
> >  likely have been nothing done about it.  Could you imagine<BR>
> >  what that would have been like? >><BR>
> > <BR>
> > Perhaps you misunderstood me. I meant the knuckleheads running out to<BR>
> > buy a years supply of MREs, generators, etc...:-).<BR>
> <BR>
> Having "lived" on MREs for two weeks straight (in other words, MREs with<BR>
> _no_ other food available), I figure that three cases of MREs (36 meals)<BR>
> would be a year's worth; I'd probably go "Donner Party" by the time I had<BR>
> eaten 36 MREs in a row....<BR>
<BR>
Dwarven Bread is a reality...<BR>
Once upon a time (way back in the eighties) our rations were made in <BR>
the same plant a tinned pet food. As far as we could tell the pets had <BR>
the better deal (I suspect their owner's paid more then the Army did).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 03:22:04 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message<BR>
<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Evil Stevie said it better than I ever could (note especially the last<BR>
> paragraph):<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.sjgames.com/ill/<BR>
<BR>
I'll do Evil Stevie one better. Let's not wait until next year.<BR>
<BR>
Here's my proposition for those of you on the list who are out there in New<BR>
Zealand and Australia: At 11:59 P.M. on January 1st, 2000, start the party<BR>
all over again. Keep the celebration going.<BR>
<BR>
Just hear me out on this one:<BR>
<BR>
Today, from the time I woke up, I watched the whole world participate in a<BR>
really amazing event. I usually despise television, but today I watched all<BR>
day. From my point of view I saw every hour, on the hour, the skies above<BR>
the world's major cities, and presumably many of the minor ones, were filled<BR>
with flames and smoke. A wave of explosions rocked the world.<BR>
<BR>
In the shower tonight, I thought about the last time the skies above the<BR>
world's cities were filled with fire and smoke. Millions and millions of<BR>
people were killed in a war which engulfed the world. It lasted, what, five<BR>
or six years or so?<BR>
<BR>
So, at 11:59 P.M. on January 1st, 2000 keep the party going, and I swear<BR>
that I'll do my part to keep it going here. We'll keep it going for 2554<BR>
more days: a seven year party. In my estimation there's something wrong with<BR>
a place where a World War can last for five or six years, and a World Party<BR>
only lasts for a day.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 23:32:29 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Galaxy Quest<BR>
<BR>
It is ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS... However, My wife, not being a Trek Fan nor a<BR>
convention goer, didn't get half the jokes. Lots of in-jokes, and plenty of<BR>
action. Really good sight gags too. But I sense a sequel....<BR>
<BR>
And to think that Battlestar Gallactica was further from Star Wars than GQ<BR>
is from ST, and required a lawsuit to prove it was not just a rip-off. I<BR>
supposed GQ will get by on "Comedic Liscence".<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 02:48:49 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> So, at 11:59 P.M. on January 1st, 2000 keep the party going, and I swear<BR>
> that I'll do my part to keep it going here. We'll keep it going for 2554<BR>
> more days: a seven year party. In my estimation there's something wrong with<BR>
> a place where a World War can last for five or six years, and a World Party<BR>
> only lasts for a day.<BR>
<BR>
Wow.<BR>
<BR>
Sir, you get a keyboard kill for this one.  Not from beverage spewed,<BR>
but from teardrops....<BR>
<BR>
Peace be unto you all.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 04:03:23 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Free Trader plans<BR>
<BR>
Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com> types:<BR>
<BR>
>Thanks. I took a look at this design and it doesn't match the MT<BR>
>statistics for the free trader. Oh well. I'll probably just rework the<BR>
>plans I had.<BR>
<BR>
  Not surprising, as MT changed the ship design model quite a bit.<BR>
Fuel calculations changed radically, drive sizes changed, the 20-ton<BR>
Bridge vanished, etc.<BR>
<BR>
 I'm going to add the necessary volume to the hull (probably by bulking<BR>
out the rear wings, since the hull is already at Needle length) and redo<BR>
the interior. Obviously an MT interpretation is called for. This is an<BR>
airframe version of the Type-A, but is otherwise standard so far.<BR>
Anyone have a prefered TL?<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 05:25:32 EST<BR>
From: Clifford N Linehan <cnl.rubicon@juno.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Strange Random UWP's<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 15:41:32 -0900 From: "William F. Hostman"<BR>
<aramis@gci.net><BR>
>>04) X000213-1 _ As Lo Ni Va _ 820 _ M9 V<BR>
>A 800 person corporate location. Sounds to me like they're probably<BR>
rated<BR>
>not on common tech but upon local production. They're able to work soft<BR>
>metals.<BR>
>As an adventure hook, I'd say it's probably a heavily overbuilt station,<BR>
>with natural processes for aircirc... a biosphere under 3m Glass. No,<BR>
they<BR>
>can't repair it. It was originally someone's prison colony, then they<BR>
>formed a corporation rather than let it be shut down, affter the second<BR>
>generation was born.<BR>
<BR>
>>08) X000001-5 _ As Lo Ni Va _ 341 _ M7 IV<BR>
>A hermit. He's got some manufacturing capability, and his high common is<BR>
>probably 9, low common about 4... Oh, and his two kids live with him...<BR>
>They can make vaccum tubes, but not semi-conductors... And he said "No<BR>
>Nukes" to the Scout who asked him "What do you locals allow?"<BR>
<BR>
>>Does anyone have any possible ideas as to how such a low tech could<BR>
live<BR>
>>on an Asteroid without imported tech or being corrupted by the imports<BR>
to<BR>
>>a higher tech?<BR>
>TL represents Local Unsupported Capability. You don't count imports. You<BR>
>don't count irreparable artifacts. Just what they can locally produce by<BR>
>local means.<BR>
><BR>
>William F. Hostman<BR>
<BR>
Yep, That clears things up a bit. I was thinking on the lines of how life<BR>
would develop on an<BR>
asteroid, not someone arriving and losing tech levels by choice, design,<BR>
or bad luck.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Clifford Linehan<BR>
cnl.rubicon@juno.com<BR>
"When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets." - Lazarus Long (By<BR>
R. A. Heinlein)<BR>
IMTU tc+ tm+ ?tn- ?t4- tg++ ?tt to ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt au st+ ls pi+ ta he+<BR>
kk hi as va dr so zh+ vi da sy<BR>
<BR>
________________________________________________________________<BR>
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!<BR>
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!<BR>
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:<BR>
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1617<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1618</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	1/1/00 11:14:06 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 1 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1618<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
Re: JumpDrives<BR>
Re: Low TL<BR>
Re: Free Trader plans<BR>
re: Galaxy Quest<BR>
Re: Happy New Year<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1611<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
Re: GURPS: trav ships and their power requirements<BR>
Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
Airsoft<BR>
Re: Happy New Year<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Apocalypse 1110 IE<BR>
Re: Happy New Year<BR>
Alpha testers needed - CT character generator.<BR>
Re: Re Knoll vs Gnoll<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
Re: JumpDrives<BR>
StarShip Financing<BR>
Re: Alpha testers needed - CT character generator.<BR>
Re: Happy New Year<BR>
Re: Apocalypse 1110 IE<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 17:15:18 +0000<BR>
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
In message <991230.203511.3n3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>, Leonard<BR>
Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes<BR>
>Heck, anybody got a copy of the *real* Miranda warning? Let's see what<BR>
>we can do with it!<BR>
<BR>
You should hear the British one - you have effectively no right to<BR>
remain silent, and most people don't understand the wording.<BR>
- -- <BR>
Martin Hardgrave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 21:57:35 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
>In message <991230.203511.3n3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>, Leonard<BR>
>Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes<BR>
>>Heck, anybody got a copy of the *real* Miranda warning? Let's see what<BR>
>>we can do with it!<BR>
><BR>
>You should hear the British one - you have effectively no right to<BR>
>remain silent, and most people don't understand the wording.<BR>
>Martin Hardgrave<BR>
<BR>
    Or the Australian one:<BR>
    "Shut up ya b*stard!" Whack! Whack! (sound of five cell Mag-Lite hitting<BR>
kidneys)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:02:27 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: JumpDrives<BR>
<BR>
>Oh, dear.  Another "what happens to all that fuel?" debate is about to<BR>
>begin.  *sigh*<BR>
<BR>
    Great minds must think alike! I've been on this list for just on a month<BR>
and this is the second time I've had that answer.<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 00:34:43 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Low TL<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>I have noted that there are worlds created that just do not work. The<BR>
>>problem has been that they are all Asteroid worlds but with a Tech level<BR>
>>that does not allow one to live on an Asteroid. The most extreme examples<BR>
>>are worlds 4 and 7. Worlds 2 & 3 could, if poorly, repair and sustain<BR>
>>life support systems.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> 02) E000855-9 _ As Na Va _ 821 _ F9 V A1 V<BR>
> 03) E000473-9 _ As Ni Va _ 132 _ F4 V<BR>
><BR>
> Lessee, TL nine is pre-gravitic, but spacefaring. We're TL 8. So it is<BR>
> rather simple there... They have the infrastucture capability.<BR>
><BR>
> 04) X000213-1 _ As Lo Ni Va _ 820 _ M9 V<BR>
><BR>
> A 800 person corporate location. Sounds to me like they're probably rated<BR>
> not on common tech but upon local production. They're able to work soft<BR>
> metals.<BR>
><BR>
> As an adventure hook, I'd say it's probably a heavily overbuilt station,<BR>
> with natural processes for aircirc... a biosphere under 3m Glass. No, they<BR>
> can't repair it. It was originally someone's prison colony, then they<BR>
> formed a corporation rather than let it be shut down, affter the second<BR>
> generation was born.<BR>
<BR>
TL-1 is "Bronze Age to Middle Ages" in my copy of the Traveller Book.<BR>
Such tech is capable of *maintaining* an asteroid colony. Just barely.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 04:31:49 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Free Trader plans<BR>
<BR>
 GypsyComet@aol.com wrote<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Obviously an MT interpretation is called for. This is an<BR>
> airframe version of the Type-A, but is otherwise standard so far.<BR>
> Anyone have a prefered TL?<BR>
<BR>
Can you do it at more than one TL perhaps?<BR>
<BR>
If you do only one how about TL 12.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 09:33:28 -0500<BR>
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: re: Galaxy Quest<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
I was involved in a D&D campaign with a similar premise once. The GM<BR>
quickly realized that he'd made a big mistake. I was able to descrivbe<BR>
*from memory( how to extract saltpeter, and how to make gunpowder. I<BR>
could also detail how to produce sulfuric, hydrochloric and nitric<BR>
acids. <BR>
<snip><BR>
Another player was a physics major. He and I started discussing how to<BR>
build a breeder reactor (using orcs and condemned criminals to work in<BR>
the high radiation areas). And how to extract the plutonium, and<BR>
construct a bomb. <BR>
<BR>
The GM decided it was time to end the campaign. :-)<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
Poor, outclassed GM. :-)<BR>
<BR>
I'd have had the spirits of alchemy eat your laboratory, *maybe* with<BR>
you sprinting out the door right ahead of their corrosive teeth. There<BR>
must be different laws of nature in a D&D world, perhaps some of them<BR>
can get downright defensive.<BR>
<BR>
If a *god* doesn't want there to be gunpowder, there won't be.<BR>
<BR>
Now, the trick to use in such  a situation would be to turn your<BR>
scientific, logical minds towards understanding things that *do*<BR>
work in the world you've found yourself in. Assuming, of course,<BR>
that there are branches of magick that are accessible through<BR>
the scientific method.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:45:21 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
>286 upped to 386?  How, please tell!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Replacement of the processor chip, je pense.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure - I got it from Dad's school when they suddenly realised it was<BR>
1999 and perhaps 386's weren't going to cut it any more. It's a 286 case<BR>
with '386' written on the top in marker pen, and it's got a 386 processor<BR>
inside it.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 08:06:41 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1611<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 00:01:32 +1300<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Subject: Greetings from the other side<BR>
><BR>
>Greetings to the TML from the other side, and a happy new year.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>- --<BR>
>Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
And Rupert will go down in TML history as having the first post of the <BR>
Year 2000. Congratulations, and a happy new year to you (and everyone<BR>
else) as well. :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 15:24:44 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
>You should hear the British one - you have effectively no right to<BR>
>remain silent, and most people don't understand the wording.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
How does it go exactly? I think since the Criminal Justice Act the main<BR>
thrust is that you can refuse to answer questions, but that may weaken your<BR>
case if you later produce evidence linked to those questions.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, that seems a little draconian - perhaps I'm remembering it wrong.<BR>
Can anybody help us out here?<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 10:33:19 -0500<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS: trav ships and their power requirements<BR>
<BR>
>IMTU, you have to charge up your accumulators before jumping.  While<BR>
>you're doing that you don't have your jump grid running, the CG/AG's<BR>
>don't have to be running at full power, the HEPlaR drive doesn't<BR>
>*have* to be online, you can even "dim the lights" to conserve power<BR>
><g>, and if you want to fire weapons at the same time...then you<BR>
>should have thought of that beforehand.<BR>
<BR>
Of course you'd never be able to put that over on any PC group I've seen but<BR>
once. After that they'd do whatever is necessary to ensure they had all the<BR>
power they needed for combat situations, even if it meant they had to give<BR>
up some cargo space and search like hell for higher profit cargos to cover<BR>
the loss.<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 08:47:56 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
<BR>
I finally received the Dragon Magazine Archive CD in the mail yesterday.<BR>
So far all I've done is install it and flip through a couple of issues<BR>
(looking for, and finding, the first issue I ever bought back in 1980).<BR>
But I'm impressed. Way cool.<BR>
<BR>
I would like to be able to report that I bought it from my FLGS, except<BR>
my LGS isn't all that friendly -- it has a reputation for gouging its<BR>
customers, as it has effectively no local competition. <BR>
<BR>
Case in point: the Dragon Magazine Archive CD. According to Amazon.com,<BR>
the $US List Price is $40.63 -- and if you go to Heilkon Technologies<BR>
web site (the company that produced the CD), they send you to Amazon.<BR>
Most books and games are priced with the Canadian price set at $US x <BR>
1.5 -- this should put the Canadian price at about $60.95.<BR>
<BR>
Edmonton's FLGS' price: $89.95.<BR>
<BR>
Amazon.com's price: $28.44 US, or about $42.50 Canadian.<BR>
<BR>
With the exchange rate (about 1.49 at the time I paid for the CD), <BR>
shipping, plus having to pay 7% GST (Canada's federal sales tax) and<BR>
a $5 Canada Customs handling fee (the swine), my total cost came to<BR>
just over $59. Had I gone to my LGS, my total cost would have been<BR>
$96.25 (including GST). Total savings: about $37.00.<BR>
<BR>
So I'm happy with the outcome...<BR>
<BR>
- -- g<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 08:46:37 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Airsoft<BR>
<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>A crack airsoft shot?  Outstanding.  I converted to airsoft from paintball<BR>
when the munchkins with $2,000 guns started invading...Whatcha' got?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
We just recently discovered that I am good at this when I was playing with<BR>
Hotaru's toys, so I'm deciding what to buy right now.  =)  Hotaru was<BR>
freaked out because he offered to let me use his gun and I was hitting<BR>
targets dead on.  We usually shoot soft drink cans from various ranges and<BR>
the guys' favorite thing to watch me to is shoot a pellet into the opening<BR>
of a can that is laid on its side.  It rattles around inside and makes a<BR>
great noise.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri   =)<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 10:18:34 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 1 Jan 2000, Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> That's a point. I supose I should check out the Old One in the corner<BR>
> (486SX-25). With it's '93 BIOS it could be interesting.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Mmmm.....when I go back to Durham I have to boot up Shoebox (an old 286<BR>
> overdriven to 386 with BIOS from.....actually, I'm not sure she even has a<BR>
> BIOS...I think she runs on voodoo.)<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm...I suppose I could drag the 'ol FrankenApple out of the closet (an<BR>
Apple ][ + with a hacked separate keyboard (three feet of ribbon cable!) I<BR>
made out of parts scrounged on Canal Street) and start it up. 'Prolly have<BR>
to give the 64k card a thump or two before it booted up properly. Never<BR>
did buy a clock chip for that one....wonder what will happen if I set the<BR>
date to 1/1/2000?<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 10:25:13 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 31 Dec 1999, Michael Peters wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!<BR>
> <BR>
> HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!<BR>
> <BR>
> Mike (anybody want to buy 20 cases of baked beans... and I'll throw in some<BR>
> bottled water to boot ;*> )<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
NAaaah...I'm going to give it a month, then the yard sales are going to be<BR>
pure gold. The local camping supply store reported in the last week<BR>
they've been cleaned out of Coleman lanterns and stoves, kerosene<BR>
lanterns, etc, etc. I figure people will get tired of shoving the<BR>
things out of the way in about a month or two, and I'll be able to<BR>
pick up a lantern and stove cheap. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 10:31:48 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 31 Dec 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I've heard of one big electric company sending out bills with a due<BR>
> date in Jan 1900. This was followed by a comment by the newscaster<BR>
> about no Y2k problems having been noted so far. :-(<BR>
> <BR>
> <sigh> It'd be nice if the people reporting this stuff had some idea<BR>
> what it was all about.<BR>
<BR>
But that would require  _brains_ as well as looks, Leonard. Kerist, just<BR>
yesterday a sheriff's deputy here in town solemnnly told people not to<BR>
fire guns into the air, as (true) what comes up must come down, sometimes<BR>
(patently false) faster than when it left the gun barrel!<BR>
<BR>
As far as that billing mistake, I suspect the one of the bigger problems<BR>
companies will have with the stupid things is that they'll be issuing<BR>
replacent bills because people will want the originals as souveneirs...<BR>
<BR>
That power company fixed the problem in a day, and sent out a revised<BR>
bill, with their vaunted Y2K consultant footing the bill ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:36:22 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Apocalypse 1110 IE<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Glenn Goffin" <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
> "OK, when we go up against the Sword Worlders, we really mess<BR>
> with their minds.  We basically take over their tactical radio<BR>
> system and broadcast music back at them real loud.  Today it's<BR>
> gonna be the Ride of the Valkyries, an old Terran song, and one<BR>
> of the Swordies' favorites for midnight rallies.  It just scares<BR>
> the hell out of them siegheilers."<BR>
<BR>
As the duly appointed representative of his majesty, Prince Trask of Tanith,<BR>
I must insist that you cease and desist in mixing your metaphors about Sword<BR>
Worlds citizens and Space Vikings.  Each of the Sword Worlds is an<BR>
independent state and, as such, is self governing.  Most the Sword Worlds<BR>
have chosen monarchy or charismatic oligarchy as their preferred form of<BR>
government.  Space Vikings, on the other hand, are either commissioned or<BR>
privateer commerce raiders.  The Space Viking community consists of a ship<BR>
owner, a ship captain and a crew.  The ship owner may be owner aboard, a<BR>
patron or a corporate body.  While on raids, the captain is the head of a<BR>
dictatorship who delegates authority among his officers.<BR>
<BR>
For the most part, Sword Worlders are not Space Vikings.  Though many Space<BR>
Vikings were subjects of various Sword Worlds, it is generally accepted that<BR>
joining the Space Viking ranks is a lifelong calling requiring the<BR>
subjecting of their allegiance to their captain.  There is no fascist<BR>
overall structure encompassing any group of Sword Worlds, nor do the rank<BR>
and file Sword Worlders deserve the glorious title of Space Viking!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Baron Michael of Michaelton<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 12:48:05 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
At 10:18 am 1/1/00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>On Sat, 1 Jan 2000, Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> That's a point. I supose I should check out the Old One in the<BR>
corner<BR>
>> (486SX-25). With it's '93 BIOS it could be interesting.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> <BR>
>> <BR>
>> Mmmm.....when I go back to Durham I have to boot up Shoebox (an<BR>
old 286<BR>
>> overdriven to 386 with BIOS from.....actually, I'm not sure she<BR>
even has a<BR>
>> BIOS...I think she runs on voodoo.)<BR>
><BR>
>Hmmm...I suppose I could drag the 'ol FrankenApple out of the closet<BR>
(an<BR>
>Apple ][ + with a hacked separate keyboard (three feet of ribbon<BR>
cable!) I<BR>
>made out of parts scrounged on Canal Street) and start it up.<BR>
'Prolly have<BR>
>to give the 64k card a thump or two before it booted up properly.<BR>
Never<BR>
>did buy a clock chip for that one....wonder what will happen if I<BR>
set the<BR>
>date to 1/1/2000?<BR>
<BR>
	Ha! My Timex/Sinclair 1000 is IMMUNE to the dreaded Y2K bug so<BR>
devastating to your inferior machines. Bwa ha ha ha ...<BR>
<BR>
	Hmm ... I wonder how hard it would be to interface a modem to it ...<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 17:51 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)<BR>
From: ilaskey@cix.co.uk (Iain Laskey)<BR>
Subject: Alpha testers needed - CT character generator.<BR>
<BR>
I'm working on a Windows 95/98/NT based application written in VB6 that <BR>
will eventually (I hope) grow to be a fully featured commercial grade tool <BR>
for generating CT characters, subsectors etc.<BR>
<BR>
The first alpha version is now almost done and allows the generation of <BR>
Navy characters only. It lacks both the ability to save them or to print <BR>
them but is intended more as a testbed for the lok/feel/feasibility.<BR>
<BR>
If anyone wants to test/try this (I expect the email to be around 1.8Mb - <BR>
doncha love VB6...) I would be very grateful. Email me and I'll send a <BR>
copy by return when it's ready.<BR>
<BR>
It is based on CT because that's the only system I know or have an <BR>
interest in - screaming emails demanding a MegaTraveller or T4 version <BR>
won't get you anywhere! I also intend releasing it as Shareware not <BR>
Freeware mainly because with so many other things to do, I need to <BR>
justify it to my wife ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
Iain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:06:45 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Knoll vs Gnoll<BR>
<BR>
>(Hyenas are strong, fast, and work in packs.. Male lions are really, really<BR>
>good at driving hyenas away from kills. Those wildlife films we see of a<BR>
>pride of lions lounging around a kill, with hyenas slinking around the<BR>
>edges? Often enough, the hyenas were there first.)<BR>
<BR>
Of course, you could also include some other interesting bits of hyena<BR>
physiology:<BR>
<BR>
Female hyenas have more androgens than males. This makes them bigger and<BR>
more aggressive than males, better able to compete at carcasses and<BR>
discourage other hyenas from eating her offspring. It has also led to<BR>
masculinization of their genitalia: her clitoris looks like a long penis -<BR>
through which she gives birth! This doubles the length of the birth canal<BR>
and forces it through a 180 turn. Coupled with the need to stretch to<BR>
accomodate a 4lb fetus, labor takes hours. Primiparous hyena mothers have<BR>
high mortality, with up to 60% of their offspring suffocating during labour.<BR>
<BR>
Cubs are born in male-female pairs. The female cub usually kills the male<BR>
cub, but in bad times the mother will intervene to keep the male alive.<BR>
This makes sense, as females stay with the pack (thus more females make a<BR>
stringer pack) while males leave for new territory (thus in bad times males<BR>
are a genetic insurance policy).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:09:15 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
>More recently (in the last 5-10 years) a student at Oxford noted that<BR>
>the rules of the College required the College to provide "ale and<BR>
>cakes" for the "young gentlemen" sitting examinations. So, next exam<BR>
>time, he requested the "ale and cakes" pointing to the regulation.<BR>
>After a bit of discussing, it was decided that some burgers and a pint<BR>
>(or some such) were an acceptable modern equivalent. And they presented<BR>
>them to him, and he happily muched and sipped his way thru his exams.<BR>
><BR>
>Alas, after completing them, he was presented with notice that he was<BR>
>being fines 25 pounds for failing to wear his sword to the exams (also<BR>
>in the old regulations). :-)<BR>
<BR>
Oddly enough, I heard this one from my father when I was a wee tad - at<BR>
least 25 years ago!<BR>
<BR>
So if it did happen, it happened less recently than 5-10 years ago.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 02:41:40 +0800<BR>
From: Nattrass <wulfren@iinet.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: JumpDrives<BR>
<BR>
>> > ><BR>
>> > >     When a Jump Drive is engaged, does it . . .<BR>
>> > > 1, expend all it's fuel at once by launching the jump and then coast for<BR>
>> > > a week? 2, expend half of its fuel opening a "Jump Gate," use its<BR>
>> > > manoeuvre drive to negotiate the "Jump Tunnel" for a week and then<BR>
>> > > expend the remaining half of it's jump fuel opening another "Jump Gate"<BR>
>> > > to real space? 3, expend all it's fuel in a steady usage over the jump<BR>
>> > > time? (I always thought this was the case, but if you have a six day<BR>
>> > > trip, won't you save fuel?)<BR>
<BR>
I think you'll find the old X-boat networks included a mail vessel of 100dt<BR>
which had itself no manoeuvre drive, but awaitied collection on arrival...<BR>
also considering that the vessel leaves jumpspace with the same vector as<BR>
which it entered there can be no account for a change in velocity en-route<BR>
as a result of manoeuvre drive use, apart from to say that because its in a<BR>
different "dimension" the changes dont apply in this one.<BR>
I believe in TNE the jump drive uses a portion of its fuel charging up HPG<BR>
banks using a Fast Burn fusion reactor which can then be released into the<BR>
hull grid, to tear a hole in the fabric of space, the rest of the fuel is<BR>
then used cooling the ship/drive down so that life is possible aboard it<BR>
en-route.<BR>
In my talons I shape clay.....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 10:58:07 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: StarShip Financing<BR>
<BR>
With all the interest that has been expressed on the TML<BR>
about the high price of StarShips, I decided to make my<BR>
StarShip Financing spreadsheet solution available for those<BR>
who might be interested.<BR>
<BR>
What does this have to do with the high cost of StarShips?<BR>
With a print out of exactly what the next payment covers, you<BR>
can decide how many payments you can pay each month.  At<BR>
the beginning of a note, the payment is only c. 11% principle.<BR>
This means that if you could afford to make 1.55 payments in<BR>
the first month, you could actually reduce the note by a full 6<BR>
months.<BR>
<BR>
The spread sheet is c. 191 KB (195,584 bytes), so I have it<BR>
ZIPped into a 50.7KB (51,945 byte) file for downloading.<BR>
Even thought this has gone through a couple of major<BR>
overhauls and numerous minor modifications, I will be<BR>
releasing this as version 1.0.  If you would like a copy of it,<BR>
you may download it by pointing your browser to<BR>
http://www.releasingthefire.com/thuddd/financing.html.<BR>
<BR>
If you find any problems or can suggestion any improvements,<BR>
please let me <cybernaut@netzero.net> know.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:14:38 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alpha testers needed - CT character generator.<BR>
<BR>
I don't have your email addy on hand, Lain and Microbopped's Outlook isn't<BR>
allowing me to reply just to you, so send an email with that character gen<BR>
to me.  I still play CT.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Iain Laskey" <ilaskey@cix.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Cc: <ilaskey@cix.co.uk><BR>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 12:51 PM<BR>
Subject: Alpha testers needed - CT character generator.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I'm working on a Windows 95/98/NT based application written in VB6 that<BR>
> will eventually (I hope) grow to be a fully featured commercial grade tool<BR>
> for generating CT characters, subsectors etc.<BR>
><BR>
> The first alpha version is now almost done and allows the generation of<BR>
> Navy characters only. It lacks both the ability to save them or to print<BR>
> them but is intended more as a testbed for the lok/feel/feasibility.<BR>
><BR>
> If anyone wants to test/try this (I expect the email to be around 1.8Mb -<BR>
> doncha love VB6...) I would be very grateful. Email me and I'll send a<BR>
> copy by return when it's ready.<BR>
><BR>
> It is based on CT because that's the only system I know or have an<BR>
> interest in - screaming emails demanding a MegaTraveller or T4 version<BR>
> won't get you anywhere! I also intend releasing it as Shareware not<BR>
> Freeware mainly because with so many other things to do, I need to<BR>
> justify it to my wife ;-)<BR>
><BR>
> Thanks.<BR>
> Iain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:16:22 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
OMG!  I haven't seen one of those in ages.  Let us know if you actually end<BR>
up able to interface a modem with it.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 12:48 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Ha! My Timex/Sinclair 1000 is IMMUNE to the dreaded Y2K bug so<BR>
> devastating to your inferior machines. Bwa ha ha ha ...<BR>
><BR>
> Hmm ... I wonder how hard it would be to interface a modem to it ...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:18:57 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Apocalypse 1110 IE<BR>
<BR>
I, Prince Trask of Tanith, do thank my loyal subject for his defense of our<BR>
sovereign state.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Swordy (Colin Michael)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 12:36 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Apocalypse 1110 IE<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: "Glenn Goffin" <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
> As the duly appointed representative of his majesty, Prince Trask of<BR>
Tanith,<BR>
> I must insist that you cease and desist in mixing your metaphors about<BR>
Sword<BR>
> Worlds citizens and Space Vikings.  Each of the Sword Worlds is an<BR>
> independent state and, as such, is self governing.  Most the Sword Worlds<BR>
> have chosen monarchy or charismatic oligarchy as their preferred form of<BR>
> government.  Space Vikings, on the other hand, are either commissioned or<BR>
> privateer commerce raiders.  The Space Viking community consists of a ship<BR>
> owner, a ship captain and a crew.  The ship owner may be owner aboard, a<BR>
> patron or a corporate body.  While on raids, the captain is the head of a<BR>
> dictatorship who delegates authority among his officers.<BR>
><BR>
> For the most part, Sword Worlders are not Space Vikings.  Though many<BR>
Space<BR>
> Vikings were subjects of various Sword Worlds, it is generally accepted<BR>
that<BR>
> joining the Space Viking ranks is a lifelong calling requiring the<BR>
> subjecting of their allegiance to their captain.  There is no fascist<BR>
> overall structure encompassing any group of Sword Worlds, nor do the rank<BR>
> and file Sword Worlders deserve the glorious title of Space Viking!<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Baron Michael of Michaelton<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1618<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1619</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	1/1/00 1:10:00 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 1 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1619<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
Re: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Strange Random UWP's<BR>
[future_wars] OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Fifth Frontier War at Kristian Miller's<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message<BR>
Re: Why? 2K!<BR>
Re: Galaxy Quest! <BR>
Re: Why? 2K!<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1611<BR>
Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Strange Random UWP's <BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems <BR>
Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems <BR>
Re: Happy New Year<BR>
Re: Galaxy Quest<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 14:32:20 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
<BR>
So what's the slang term for this period?  Like, "the twenties" is good for<BR>
either 1920-29 or 2020-29, and "the nineties" applicable for 1990-99 or<BR>
2090-99... but what did people call 1900-1909?<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 14:35:25 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
<BR>
At 02:10 PM 1/1/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>>Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 08:47:56 -0700<BR>
>From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
>Subject: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
><BR>
>I finally received the Dragon Magazine Archive CD in the mail yesterday.<BR>
>So far all I've done is install it and flip through a couple of issues<BR>
>(looking for, and finding, the first issue I ever bought back in 1980).<BR>
>But I'm impressed. Way cool.<BR>
><BR>
>I would like to be able to report that I bought it from my FLGS, except<BR>
>my LGS isn't all that friendly -- it has a reputation for gouging its<BR>
>customers, as it has effectively no local competition. <BR>
><BR>
>Case in point: the Dragon Magazine Archive CD. According to Amazon.com,<BR>
>the $US List Price is $40.63 -- and if you go to Heilkon Technologies<BR>
>web site (the company that produced the CD), they send you to Amazon.<BR>
>Most books and games are priced with the Canadian price set at $US x <BR>
>1.5 -- this should put the Canadian price at about $60.95.<BR>
><BR>
>Edmonton's FLGS' price: $89.95.<BR>
<BR>
It can be worse.  My FLGS was (on Dec 22) asking $99.95 Candian.<BR>
<BR>
>Amazon.com's price: $28.44 US, or about $42.50 Canadian.<BR>
<BR>
Yikes!  Get me off to Amazon...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:44:23 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
<BR>
Well, if two bucks are a tunie, you could call this time a "lunie"<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 2:32 PM<BR>
Subject: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> So what's the slang term for this period?  Like, "the twenties" is good<BR>
for<BR>
> either 1920-29 or 2020-29, and "the nineties" applicable for 1990-99 or<BR>
> 2090-99... but what did people call 1900-1909?<BR>
>  _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
>      David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
>      Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
>  Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo!<BR>
RPG<BR>
>              dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 11:26:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> <Sethkimmel@aol.com> wrote:<BR>
>> Happy new year to all on the TML!!!<BR>
>><BR>
>>  Has anybody heard any Y2K problems yet, or can I start laughing at the<BR>
>> doomsayers? :-)<BR>
><BR>
> I'm on the u.S. left coast, so we haven't passed the midnight<BR>
> mark just yet; however, let me remind you that if those<BR>
> "doomsayers" hadn't been screaming for the fix, there would<BR>
> likely have been nothing done about it.  Could you imagine<BR>
> what that would have been like?<BR>
<BR>
I just discovered that the offline reader *door* for our BBS has a y2k<BR>
bug. It was hoped that the bug only affected the *reader* (for which<BR>
there's a y2k compliant replacement). Alas, this turned out to be<BR>
false. The only QWK door quit working years ago. And the remaining<BR>
alternative (Silver Express) besides being run by a jerk, won't let me<BR>
download eval copies of the software from their web site!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 11:30:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>C'THULHU SAVES!  (In case He's hungry later....)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> "Collect Call Of Cthulu!<BR>
><BR>
> Will you accept, sir?"<BR>
<BR>
"We are sorry. You have reached a number that has been disconnected or<BR>
is no longer in service. If you feel you have reached this recording in<BR>
error, please hang up and try your call again."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:31:04 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Strange Random UWP's<BR>
<BR>
At 05:25 AM 1/1/00 EST, you wrote:<BR>
>Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 15:41:32 -0900 From: "William F. Hostman"<BR>
><aramis@gci.net><BR>
>>>04) X000213-1 _ As Lo Ni Va _ 820 _ M9 V<BR>
>>A 800 person corporate location. Sounds to me like they're probably<BR>
>rated<BR>
>>not on common tech but upon local production. They're able to work soft<BR>
>>metals.<BR>
<BR>
>Yep, That clears things up a bit. I was thinking on the lines of how life<BR>
>would develop on an<BR>
>asteroid, not someone arriving and losing tech levels by choice, design,<BR>
>or bad luck.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Clifford Linehan<BR>
>cnl.rubicon@juno.com<BR>
>"When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets." - Lazarus Long (By<BR>
>R. A. Heinlein)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
So the UWP is for the benefit of commercial starships? It gives you a<BR>
general idea of what you can buy, what might sell well, and the legal<BR>
restrictions you'll run into. That makes sense.<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:42:39 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: [future_wars] OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
<BR>
I got this off of another mailing list. I'm not certain that it's true, but<BR>
it might be useful if you need an example of why something in the Imperium<BR>
is set up the way it is.  <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Engineering History<BR>
<BR>
 The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is<BR>
 4 feet 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was<BR>
 that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in<BR>
 England, and English expatriates built the US railroads.<BR>
<BR>
 Why did the English build them like that? Because the first<BR>
 rail lines were built by the same people who built the<BR>
 pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.<BR>
<BR>
 Why did 'they' use that gauge then? Because the people who<BR>
 built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used<BR>
 for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.<BR>
<BR>
 Okay! Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing?<BR>
 Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels<BR>
 would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England,<BR>
 because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts.<BR>
<BR>
 So who built those old rutted roads? The first long distance<BR>
 roads in Europe (and England) were built by Imperial Rome for<BR>
 their legions. The roads have been used ever since. And the<BR>
 ruts?  Roman war chariots first made the initial ruts, which<BR>
 everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon<BR>
 wheels and wagons. Since the chariots were made for, or by<BR>
 Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel<BR>
 spacing.<BR>
<BR>
 Thus, we have the answer to the original question. The United<BR>
 States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives<BR>
 from the original specification for an Imperial Roman war<BR>
 chariot. Specifications and bureaucracies live forever. So,<BR>
 the next time you are handed a specification and wonder which<BR>
 horse's rear came up with it, you may be exactly right. Because<BR>
 the Imperial Roman war chariots were made just wide enough to<BR>
 accommodate the back ends of two war-horses.<BR>
<BR>
 There's an interesting extension to the story about railroad<BR>
 gauges and horses' behinds. When we see a Space Shuttle sitting<BR>
 on its launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached<BR>
 to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are solid rocket<BR>
 boosters, or SRBs. Thiokol makes the SRBs at their factory at<BR>
 Utah. The engineers who designed the SRBs might have preferred<BR>
 to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by<BR>
 train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line<BR>
 from the factory had to run through a tunnel in the mountains.<BR>
 The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is<BR>
 slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track<BR>
 is about as wide as two horses behinds.<BR>
<BR>
 So, the major design feature of what is arguably the world's<BR>
 most advanced transportation system was determined by the<BR>
 width of a Horse's ass!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 14:46:59 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
<BR>
>From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
>Subject: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
><BR>
>Amazon.com's price: $28.44 US, or about $42.50 Canadian.<BR>
<BR>
Amazon is now "out of stock" on the item, suggesting they were discounting<BR>
below recommended list.<BR>
Electronic Boutique has it for $34.95, though, which is still far lower<BR>
than the Canadian game store prices.<BR>
<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 11:28:12<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
At 08:45 PM 12/31/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Happy -2518, and remember, while the Imperium is cool and all, the Solomani<BR>
>have got *the Party*!<BR>
<BR>
"Ain't no party like a Solomani party, 'cause the Solomani party don't<BR>
stop...."<BR>
<BR>
Kirsten M. Berry<BR>
going for a proxy kill<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 11:33:16<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
At 02:19 AM 1/1/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>For those of you in the combat arms who think that I overstate the<BR>
>unpleasantness of MREs:  Hey, I'm a Military Intelligence semi-REMF; I<BR>
>shouldn't _have_ to eat MREs for three weeks straight!  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Cry me a river.  You can't find the enemy, the cooks can't find you.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 11:29:42<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
At 04:19 PM 1/1/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>At this point in time we've already had them for over 16 hours. For <BR>
>once NZ leads the world!!!<BR>
<BR>
Didn't Kiribati have them for an hour before you?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 11:24:05<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fifth Frontier War at Kristian Miller's<BR>
<BR>
At 04:29 PM 12/31/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>Sorry to send this to the list, but I don't have Kristian's or<BR>
>Luther's email addresses in my yahoo address book.  <BR>
<BR>
This is a good time to plug the Traveller in SF mailing list:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.onelist.com/community/TravellerinSF<BR>
<BR>
I've left everything open, so people can schedule events on the calender.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 11:34:15<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
At 12:28 AM 1/1/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Well, it seems that most of the world survived intact. Just one question<BR>
>> though; what on earth are we going to do with all these penguins?<BR>
><BR>
>Throw them at people, of course!  (Either that, or throw them at Vargr<BR>
>and/or Aslan....)<BR>
<BR>
I've created a monster, and it waddles.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 11:39:31<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
At 09:57 PM 1/1/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>    Or the Australian one:<BR>
>    "Shut up ya b*stard!" Whack! Whack! (sound of five cell Mag-Lite hitting<BR>
>kidneys)<BR>
<BR>
"You have the right to remain unconscious, anything you say ain't gonna be<BR>
much.. (groan) (SMACK) Back to bed!"  - Mel Gibson, Lethal Weapon 3.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 11:45:18<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message<BR>
<BR>
At 03:22 AM 1/1/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>In the shower tonight, I thought about the last time the skies above the<BR>
>world's cities were filled with fire and smoke. Millions and millions of<BR>
>people were killed in a war which engulfed the world. It lasted, what, five<BR>
>or six years or so?<BR>
<BR>
As Kirsten and I were watching the London celebration (which BTW, was<BR>
incredibly classy with having Big Ben as the focal point.) we were<BR>
commenting with all the explosions and searchlights, Blitz survivors must<BR>
be having a hard night.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 11:46:28<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why? 2K!<BR>
<BR>
At 10:31 AM 1/1/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
>Damn.  Civilisation didn't collapse.  Next time we'll have to use Killer<BR>
>Robots.<BR>
<BR>
Or Penguins.  Twenty-foot tall penguins with flashing eyes and tentacles<BR>
that sting.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:00:13 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Galaxy Quest! <BR>
<BR>
> I was involved in a D&D campaign with a similar premise once. The GM<BR>
> quickly realized that he'd made a big mistake. I was able to descrivbe<BR>
> *from memory( how to extract saltpeter, and how to make gunpowder. I<BR>
> could also detail how to produce sulfuric, hydrochloric and nitric<BR>
> acids. <BR>
> <BR>
> I designed a setup to produce calcium carbide and "explosion proof"<BR>
> miner's lamps. Which got me rich enough to carry out the experiments<BR>
> that would get me things like phosgene. <BR>
> <BR>
> Another player was a physics major. He and I started discussing how to<BR>
> build a breeder reactor (using orcs and condemned criminals to work in<BR>
> the high radiation areas). And how to extract the plutonium, and<BR>
> construct a bomb. <BR>
> <BR>
> The GM decided it was time to end the campaign. :-)<BR>
<BR>
We tried pulling something like that off once.  GM declared that we as *players* might know that stuff, but not as *characters*.  And he *also* decreed that since it *wasn't* Earth, that things didn't *quite* work the way we remembered them *on* Earth.<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 15:11:21 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Why? 2K!<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
>Damn.  Civilisation didn't collapse.  Next time we'll have to use Killer<BR>
>Robots.<BR>
<BR>
Or Penguins.  Twenty-foot tall penguins with flashing eyes and tentacles<BR>
that sting.<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
Nah. Fifty foot ones. With razor-sharp, armored beaks...<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 09:22:17 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1611<BR>
<BR>
On 1 Jan 00, at 8:06, Glenn St-Germain wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> And Rupert will go down in TML history as having the first post of the<BR>
> Year 2000. Congratulations, and a happy new year to you (and everyone<BR>
> else) as well. :)<BR>
<BR>
And no life :(<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 09:22:17 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
<BR>
On 1 Jan 00, at 14:32, David L. Pulver wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> So what's the slang term for this period?  Like, "the twenties" is good<BR>
> for either 1920-29 or 2020-29, and "the nineties" applicable for 1990-99<BR>
> or 2090-99... but what did people call 1900-1909?<BR>
<BR>
Edwardian :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 09:22:17 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
On 1 Jan 00, at 15:24, Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >You should hear the British one - you have effectively no right to<BR>
> >remain silent, and most people don't understand the wording.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> How does it go exactly? I think since the Criminal Justice Act the main<BR>
> thrust is that you can refuse to answer questions, but that may weaken<BR>
> your case if you later produce evidence linked to those questions.<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, that seems a little draconian - perhaps I'm remembering it<BR>
> wrong. Can anybody help us out here?<BR>
<BR>
If _The Bill_ is anything to go by that's exactly how it works.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 09:22:17 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
On 1 Jan 00, at 11:29, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 04:19 PM 1/1/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >At this point in time we've already had them for over 16 hours. For once<BR>
> >NZ leads the world!!!<BR>
> <BR>
> Didn't Kiribati have them for an hour before you?<BR>
<BR>
They say yes, we say no (at least compared to the Chatham Is). IIRC <BR>
some Pacific island tried to change the date line to get in first.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:35:55 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Strange Random UWP's <BR>
<BR>
> Yep, That clears things up a bit. I was thinking on the lines of how life<BR>
> would develop on an<BR>
> asteroid, not someone arriving and losing tech levels by choice, design,<BR>
> or bad luck.<BR>
<BR>
I could see it as a case of the corporation sponsoring the colony deliberately keeping the technological capabilities of the asteroid colony low enough to keep the residents totally dependent on the good graces of the Company for resupply.<BR>
<BR>
This would be particulary likely if there are *no* A starports within say 3 or 4 parsecs.<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:37:58 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems <BR>
<BR>
> >In message <991230.203511.3n3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>, Leonard<BR>
> >Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes<BR>
> >>Heck, anybody got a copy of the *real* Miranda warning? Let's see what<BR>
> >>we can do with it!<BR>
> ><BR>
> >You should hear the British one - you have effectively no right to<BR>
> >remain silent, and most people don't understand the wording.<BR>
> >Martin Hardgrave<BR>
> <BR>
>     Or the Australian one:<BR>
>     "Shut up ya b*stard!" Whack! Whack! (sound of five cell Mag-Lite hitting<BR>
> kidneys)<BR>
<BR>
Or the German one:<BR>
<BR>
"You haff ze right to remain zilent, but ve haff veys of mekkingk you talk!"<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 15:50:48 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
<BR>
The operative word is "aught".  "I remember back in aught-seven...", etc.<BR>
No doubt they will be called the Naughty Aughties ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -Crusty<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On 1 Jan 00, at 14:32, David L. Pulver wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > So what's the slang term for this period?  Like, "the twenties" is good<BR>
> > for either 1920-29 or 2020-29, and "the nineties" applicable for 1990-99<BR>
> > or 2090-99... but what did people call 1900-1909?<BR>
><BR>
> Edwardian :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 15:49:12 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems <BR>
<BR>
Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
> >>Heck, anybody got a copy of the *real* Miranda warning? Let's see > > > >>what we can do with it!<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Or the German one:<BR>
<BR>
"You haff ze right to remain zilent, but ve haff veys of mekkingk you talk!"<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
After all this time, someone finally got me. The material in question <BR>
(bits of a Hershey's kiss) did not go nasal, but did have to be cleaned <BR>
off my monitor and keyboard. Good one, Kevin...<BR>
<BR>
Splort!!  :-)<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 15:55:42 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, with my workload I'm lucky to be able to read the TML<BR>
more than a few times a week (plus weekends) ... hacking hardware is<BR>
so far down the list it's almost up. I recall somebody actually<BR>
selling a modem for the TS at the time ... with built-in translation<BR>
between ASCII and the completely non-standard internal character set<BR>
it used.<BR>
<BR>
At 02:16 pm 1/1/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>OMG!  I haven't seen one of those in ages.  Let us know if you<BR>
actually end<BR>
>up able to interface a modem with it.<BR>
<BR>
>> Ha! My Timex/Sinclair 1000 is IMMUNE to the dreaded Y2K bug so<BR>
>> devastating to your inferior machines. Bwa ha ha ha ...<BR>
>><BR>
>> Hmm ... I wonder how hard it would be to interface a modem to it<BR>
...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 11:51:11 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Galaxy Quest<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
> I was involved in a D&D campaign with a similar premise once. The GM<BR>
> quickly realized that he'd made a big mistake. I was able to descrivbe<BR>
> *from memory( how to extract saltpeter, and how to make gunpowder. I<BR>
> could also detail how to produce sulfuric, hydrochloric and nitric<BR>
> acids. <BR>
> <snip><BR>
> Another player was a physics major. He and I started discussing how to<BR>
> build a breeder reactor (using orcs and condemned criminals to work in<BR>
> the high radiation areas). And how to extract the plutonium, and<BR>
> construct a bomb. <BR>
><BR>
> The GM decided it was time to end the campaign. :-)<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
> Poor, outclassed GM. :-)<BR>
><BR>
> I'd have had the spirits of alchemy eat your laboratory, *maybe* with<BR>
> you sprinting out the door right ahead of their corrosive teeth. There<BR>
> must be different laws of nature in a D&D world, perhaps some of them<BR>
> can get downright defensive.<BR>
><BR>
> If a *god* doesn't want there to be gunpowder, there won't be.<BR>
<BR>
Alas, he'd already painted himself into a corner on that one. Gunpowder<BR>
and other explosives *did* work differently. Just not *enough*<BR>
differently to save him. <BR>
<BR>
> Now, the trick to use in such  a situation would be to turn your<BR>
> scientific, logical minds towards understanding things that *do*<BR>
> work in the world you've found yourself in. Assuming, of course,<BR>
> that there are branches of magick that are accessible through<BR>
> the scientific method.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, if the scientific method doesn't work, themn logic doesn't<BR>
apply to the world and nothing is either predictable or reliable. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1619<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1620</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 1 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1620<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
Re: Galaxy Quest! <BR>
A very happy New Year<BR>
re: Galaxy Quest<BR>
Re: Hiding education :was Geographical idiocy <BR>
Re: GURPS: trav ships and their power requirements<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Aslan / Fteirle reference<BR>
Re: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
Re: Keyboard kills<BR>
Re: Gateway and Amiga<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: Gateway and Amiga<BR>
Re: GURPS: trav ships and their power requirements<BR>
Re: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
Request<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: JumpDrives<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
[none]<BR>
[none]<BR>
A Microsith Postcard for the TML (with penguin)<BR>
Re: Cellulite  (slighty long)<BR>
Jumps<BR>
Information Needed<BR>
Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 15:22:01 -0600<BR>
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 1 Jan 00, at 14:32, David L. Pulver wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > So what's the slang term for this period?  Like, "the twenties" is good<BR>
> > for either 1920-29 or 2020-29, and "the nineties" applicable for 1990-99<BR>
> > or 2090-99... but what did people call 1900-1909?<BR>
><BR>
> Edwardian :)<BR>
<BR>
The turn of the century.<BR>
<BR>
Kenneth.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:11:13<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Galaxy Quest! <BR>
<BR>
At 01:00 PM 1/1/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>We tried pulling something like that off once.  GM declared that we as<BR>
*players* might know that stuff, but not as *characters*.  And he *also*<BR>
decreed that since it *wasn't* Earth, that things didn't *quite* work the<BR>
way we remembered them *on* Earth.<BR>
<BR>
I had a DM who allowed us to gather the ingrediants for gunpowder, mix them<BR>
put together the bomb, and light it.  It even went off.<BR>
<BR>
Alas, it seemed that burning gunpowder is the one *sure* way, never fail,<BR>
guaranteed to work method to summon Demogorgon.<BR>
<BR>
Oops.<BR>
<BR>
Explains why the Dwarfs didn't use the stuff.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"<BR>
                    -Adam West, as Batman <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:25:14<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
Just wanted to share with my net-friends on the TML.<BR>
<BR>
When I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's in August of 1995, I was advised to<BR>
pick to goals.  One was a short term goal, to get through the initial<BR>
surguries and chemotherapy.<BR>
<BR>
For that, I chose the release of the Regency Sourcebook.<BR>
<BR>
The second goal was a long term survival goal, something a few years down<BR>
the line to look forward to.<BR>
<BR>
I decided that living to see the Year 2000 was a good goal.<BR>
<BR>
As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TML Great Old One<BR>
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 16:24:11 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Galaxy Quest<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
> Now, the trick to use in such  a situation would be to turn your<BR>
> scientific, logical minds towards understanding things that *do*<BR>
> work in the world you've found yourself in. Assuming, of course,<BR>
> that there are branches of magick that are accessible through<BR>
> the scientific method.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, if the scientific method doesn't work, themn logic doesn't<BR>
apply to the world and nothing is either predictable or reliable. <BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
There could be limits. For example, if Magick actually consists of <BR>
cajoling or threatening demons, then the scientific method may work<BR>
against you *in that particular instance*, as being predictable (as<BR>
required by the scientific method) will let the demons know what<BR>
to expect of you. <BR>
<BR>
If Magick is more of an art than a science, then the scientific method<BR>
will give you tools and materials but few results - much like a physicist <BR>
studying sound waves can exactly replicate the tone and duration of any<BR>
individual note, and may be able to create a working musical instrument<BR>
with only a recording of the music it made to work from, but may not have <BR>
any ability to write effective music.<BR>
<BR>
Even if the scientific method is 100% useful, it may still be that all<BR>
the *data* you currently have is useless. The alchemical properties<BR>
of a substance may be close to what you think the chemical properties<BR>
should be, but are based on a different set of principles that you need<BR>
to learn. The local "scientists" (alchemists, artificers, herbalists,<BR>
brewers, wizards, whatever) are very far ahead of you in the data <BR>
department, but may be working from observation and tradition, rather than <BR>
from principles - and even the *data* they have may be too closely guarded<BR>
for you to access, meaning that you have to start from scratch. <BR>
<BR>
ObTrav - Clarke's Third Law.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:42:11 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hiding education :was Geographical idiocy <BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/23/99 5:34 PM, j-man@iname.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> "Just some good ole Droyns...Never mean any harm..."  <ducks><BR>
<BR>
Beats all you ever saw, been in in trouble with Grand-Pa since Yaskodray was<BR>
born...<BR>
<BR>
Doesn't really scan well, but it could be worked out. More filk for the<BR>
folks.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 14:10:55 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS: trav ships and their power requirements<BR>
<BR>
Eris wrote:<BR>
> On 12/31/99 at 11:10 AM,  Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >IMTU, you need to run the FTL drive for a while (about 1 High Guard<BR>
> >combat round)<BR>
> <BR>
> Russell, I'm a heretic, so don't preach High Guard to me...I don't<BR>
> worship at that altar. <g><BR>
<BR>
Sorry, that was actually a typo for "20 or 30 minutes".<BR>
<BR>
But heck, you shouldn't turn away from trivia just because it doesn't<BR>
match your beliefs. I'm an agnostic autotheist and I still know a <BR>
little bit of Christian lore. <BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 17:24:30 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
New Goal :  Live to see 3rd Imperium.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 1:25 PM<BR>
Subject: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Just wanted to share with my net-friends on the TML.<BR>
> <BR>
> When I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's in August of 1995, I was advised to<BR>
> pick to goals.  One was a short term goal, to get through the initial<BR>
> surguries and chemotherapy.<BR>
> <BR>
> For that, I chose the release of the Regency Sourcebook.<BR>
> <BR>
> The second goal was a long term survival goal, something a few years down<BR>
> the line to look forward to.<BR>
> <BR>
> I decided that living to see the Year 2000 was a good goal.<BR>
> <BR>
> As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
> -- <BR>
> <BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
> <BR>
> TML Great Old One<BR>
> Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>
> Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 16:19:30 -0600<BR>
From: Robert Daniel <bdaniel@T-Three.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
You have my congratulations and admiration. Bob<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Just wanted to share with my net-friends on the TML.<BR>
><BR>
> When I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's in August of 1995, I was advised to<BR>
> pick to goals.  One was a short term goal, to get through the initial<BR>
> surguries and chemotherapy.<BR>
><BR>
> For that, I chose the release of the Regency Sourcebook.<BR>
><BR>
> The second goal was a long term survival goal, something a few years down<BR>
> the line to look forward to.<BR>
><BR>
> I decided that living to see the Year 2000 was a good goal.<BR>
><BR>
> As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
> --<BR>
><BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
><BR>
> TML Great Old One<BR>
> Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>
> Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 17:18:10 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Aslan / Fteirle reference<BR>
<BR>
I don't mean to sound obsessive, but I just found an early reference to the<BR>
Aslan word that they use to refer to themselves.  It is in the Ref's<BR>
Companion (MT) on page 71 in a list of Aslan words.  It means Aslan or<BR>
people.  I know that this was a topic of discussion over a month ago, but it<BR>
bugged me because I knew that I had seen it in GDW material at some point,<BR>
not just in the DGP stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, back to your penguins.<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 17:16:24 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
<BR>
From: David L. Pulver <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> So what's the slang term for this period?  Like, "the twenties" is<BR>
>good for either 1920-29 or 2020-29, and "the nineties" applicable<BR>
>for 1990-99 or 2090-99... but what did people call 1900-1909?<BR>
<BR>
Well the term at one time was aught, so you'd get people saying stuff like,<BR>
"back in aught-eight", "I remember nineteen-aught-three", or "in the<BR>
aughts". The term is a little archaic, though, so I wouldn't bet on it<BR>
coming back into common usage.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 14:23:39 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Keyboard kills<BR>
<BR>
Kenji wrote:<BR>
> On Fri, 31 Dec 1999, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > However, "splorting has become sort of a standard salute to the reaction.<BR>
> > I honestly don't wan't to actually destroy people's hardware!<BR>
> <BR>
> Speak for yourself!<BR>
> <BR>
> > the award should be a recognition of the effect that it could have had, not<BR>
> > necessarily the actuall passage of coffee/soda/pizza through the nasal<BR>
> > passages.<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, the two kills I've sustained over the years -- both at your hands,<BR>
> come to think of it -- did literally involve spewing beverage up into and<BR>
> out of my nose and onto my hands/lap/keyboard.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I'm disappointed by the "splort inflation" going on around<BR>
here. What's next?<BR>
<BR>
"Aaaah! If I'd had coffee in the house, and if I'd been careless, and <BR>
if I'd taken my antidepressants, and if I had actually understood your <BR>
joke, I would have splorted all over the keyboard! Chalk up another <BR>
one!"<BR>
<BR>
I mean, really. <BR>
<BR>
Maybe we need a rating system for these Involuntary Humor Response <BR>
reactions.<BR>
<BR>
Event                                Score<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Laugh out loud                       1.0<BR>
Laugh out loud near mundanes         2.0<BR>
Fall off chair                       3.0<BR>
Spill drink                          4.0<BR>
     Hit self                       +2.0<BR>
     Hit keyboard                   +4.0<BR>
     Nasal routing                  +8.0<BR>
Spill food                           4.0<BR>
     Hit self                       +2.0<BR>
     Hit keyboard                   +4.0<BR>
     Nasal routing                 +12.0<BR>
<BR>
- - Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 14:31:59 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Gateway and Amiga<BR>
<BR>
>> Gateway owns the Amiga.<BR>
>> Rumors have been circulating ever since.<BR>
<BR>
Mercury News says Gateway has just sold all Amiga technologies, trademarks<BR>
and patents to Amino Developments.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 17:31:09 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
<BR>
Congratulations!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:39:54 -0800<BR>
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Gateway and Amiga<BR>
<BR>
>>> Gateway owns the Amiga.<BR>
>>> Rumors have been circulating ever since.<BR>
><BR>
>Mercury News says Gateway has just sold all Amiga technologies, trademarks<BR>
>and patents to Amino Developments.<BR>
<BR>
They didn't sell the patents, but they did license them to Amino.  As for<BR>
Amiga Technologies, I think they sold them, but I'm not sure.  Shoot, Amiga<BR>
Technologies is just Petro and one other person with a few thousand A1200's<BR>
that are still left around.<BR>
<BR>
				Zane<BR>
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |<BR>
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |<BR>
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |<BR>
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+<BR>
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |<BR>
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |<BR>
|                 http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/              |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:52:17 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS: trav ships and their power requirements<BR>
<BR>
On 01/01/00 at 01:51 PM,  "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>IMTU, you have to charge up your accumulators before jumping.  While<BR>
>>you're doing that you don't have your jump grid running, the CG/AG's<BR>
>>don't have to be running at full power, the HEPlaR drive doesn't<BR>
>>*have* to be online, you can even "dim the lights" to conserve power<BR>
>><g>, and if you want to fire weapons at the same time...then you<BR>
>>should have thought of that beforehand.<BR>
<BR>
>Of course you'd never be able to put that over on any PC group I've seen<BR>
>but once. After that they'd do whatever is necessary to ensure they had<BR>
>all the power they needed for combat situations, even if it meant they<BR>
>had to give up some cargo space and search like hell for higher profit<BR>
>cargos to cover the loss.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps we'll get a chance to test your theory. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 12:04:44 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
<BR>
> So what's the slang term for this period?  <BR>
<BR>
It's the "naughties"<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 17:14:23 -0600<BR>
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net><BR>
Subject: Request<BR>
<BR>
Is there anyone here that could do me a big favor?<BR>
If you have a complete or nearly complete set of Travellers' Digest<BR>
magazines,<BR>
could you contact me off list.<BR>
I need to check on somethings :)<BR>
<BR>
TV<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 18:20:12 -0500<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 1:25 PM<BR>
Subject: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Just wanted to share with my net-friends on the TML.<BR>
><BR>
> When I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's in August of 1995, I was advised to<BR>
> pick to goals.  One was a short term goal, to get through the initial<BR>
> surguries and chemotherapy.<BR>
><BR>
> For that, I chose the release of the Regency Sourcebook.<BR>
><BR>
> The second goal was a long term survival goal, something a few years down<BR>
> the line to look forward to.<BR>
><BR>
> I decided that living to see the Year 2000 was a good goal.<BR>
><BR>
> As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
> --<BR>
Doug,<BR>
<BR>
New goal... to see ACQ sell one million + copies. All my best wishes to you<BR>
and yours! Keep the faith.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 10:24:50 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: JumpDrives<BR>
<BR>
>The problem I see with this approach (besides the fact that it violates<BR>
>canon regarding drop tanks) is that it implies a jumpspace (relatively)<BR>
>full of misjumped starships.  If ships can remain in jumpspace<BR>
>indefinitely, then there could be some way to learn to interact with<BR>
>ships lost in jumpspace.  In which case, one could make a living<BR>
>"rescuing" ships from jumpspace, with much less risk than p*r*cy.<BR>
>Besides, the standard description of misjumps states that the affected<BR>
>ship _emerges_ from jumpspace at its randomly-determined location [T4,<BR>
>page 116].<BR>
<BR>
    Well, for a start, I'm proposing something different to canon. I don't<BR>
know anyone who actually uses drop tanks in their campaigns, although I<BR>
assume some people do. Are these drop tanks an Imperial Standard? Some sort<BR>
of modular, click together array that starports lease out? Does a tug follow<BR>
your ship to the jump point and recover the drop tank after use? Then why<BR>
not use tankers like you said?<BR>
    I like more hard edged games where there is a constant threat of death<BR>
for those cheesy PCs (this comes from always being made to GM) so the threat<BR>
of asphyxiating in a jump tunnel limbo is a good way of making my players<BR>
maintain their maintenance schedules, anything apart from a serious bomb is<BR>
probably repairable within thirty days anyway. I can't see how anyone could<BR>
get into an existing jump space tunnel to perform a rescue, that infers you<BR>
could follow a ship into jump space and continue combat for a week. I like<BR>
non canon settings but I'm not touching that.<BR>
    Jim ("Hey Ad', have you tried the TML? Nice guys but don't mention the<BR>
Penguins.")<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 23:32:04 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
>I decided that living to see the Year 2000 was a good goal.<BR>
>As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I don't know what to say...<BR>
<BR>
Congratulations.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:56:19 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
<BR>
>Subject: [future_wars] OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
><BR>
>I got this off of another mailing list. I'm not certain that it's true, but<BR>
>it might be useful if you need an example of why something in the Imperium<BR>
>is set up the way it is.  <BR>
<BR>
  <argh>  This recently came up on another list, but that fellow was<BR>
fairly certain that it was true, evidently because he found it on the<BR>
web, therefore it must be true...  <_argh_><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:52:39 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 18:02:15 +1100<BR>
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
>Subject: JumpDrives<BR>
><BR>
>    When a Jump Drive is engaged, does it . . .<BR>
>1, expend all it's fuel at once by launching the jump and then coast for a<BR>
>week?<BR>
<BR>
This is what I use; IMTU, jump is when many forms of mainetenance are<BR>
done... like the MDrives. More importantly, you can't do maintenance on the<BR>
hull grids or the coils while in jump; they are still energized, and must<BR>
decay down naturally or you automatically misjump. I based my approach off<BR>
of the DGP _SSOM_.Canon is very light on this topic, though.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>2, expend half of its fuel opening a "Jump Gate," use its manoeuvre drive to<BR>
>negotiate the "Jump Tunnel" for a week and then expend the remaining half of<BR>
>it's jump fuel opening another "Jump Gate" to real space?<BR>
>3, expend all it's fuel in a steady usage over the jump time? (I always<BR>
>thought this was the case, but if you have a six day trip, won't you save<BR>
>fuel?)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:54:00 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>> Happy new year to all on the TML!!!<BR>
>><BR>
>>  Has anybody heard any Y2K problems yet, or can I start laughing at the<BR>
>> doomsayers? :-)<BR>
<BR>
My ISP had to do some recompiles last week to get the dates on some servers<BR>
set right... They'd date-advanced them to test their software.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 18:08:39 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: A Microsith Postcard for the TML (with penguin)<BR>
<BR>
Check the following URL for a Microsith postcard for the TML:<BR>
<BR>
To view your postcard click on<BR>
<BR>
http://www.microsith.com/postcard/view.php3?key=070004900946771189<BR>
<BR>
'Nuff said.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 16:06:36 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Cellulite  (slighty long)<BR>
<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
<BR>
I liked these ideas.  They come up in different ways from time<BR>
to time, and I think it's very plausible that we would have and<BR>
would want sort of continual and automatic health monitoring,<BR>
especia1lly for starship crews, who may be away from medical<BR>
facilities for long periods.<BR>
<BR>
It also reminded me of a conversation with a friend when we were<BR>
watching Star Trek Voyager.  When 7 of 9 came on, my friend<BR>
said, "the women in the future are so beautiful," to which I<BR>
responded, "yes, in the future, all the men will be rich and all<BR>
the women beautiful."<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 15:13:35 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Jumps<BR>
<BR>
>>     I kind of like "2," it gives the engineers something to do taskwise near<BR>
>> the end of the jump and the pilot must make sure that they've travelled the<BR>
>> correct distance down the jump tunnel. Misjumps become even more interesting<BR>
>> in that the barrier to realspace is too effective for the jump drive to<BR>
>> pierce with a jump gate. A drive failure in jump space doesn't drop you out<BR>
>> though, your stuck there until you fix it unless you come up with some cute<BR>
>> rule like "if you don't maintain (x) velocity you drop out into realspace"<BR>
>> but that looks a bit corny to me.<BR>
><BR>
>The problem I see with this approach (besides the fact that it violates<BR>
>canon regarding drop tanks) is that it implies a jumpspace (relatively)<BR>
>full of misjumped starships.  If ships can remain in jumpspace<BR>
>indefinitely, then there could be some way to learn to interact with<BR>
>ships lost in jumpspace.  In which case, one could make a living<BR>
>"rescuing" ships from jumpspace, with much less risk than p*r*cy.<BR>
>Besides, the standard description of misjumps states that the affected<BR>
>ship _emerges_ from jumpspace at its randomly-determined location [T4,<BR>
>page 116].<BR>
><BR>
Accordingly, it could be several locations (Destroyed mishap under MT).<BR>
Jump Failures under MT can cause damage.<BR>
<BR>
As for the problem of Drop Tanks vs External charging, My take is a little<BR>
different. I allow Drop tanks, but They merely pump into the main tanks as<BR>
the mains are being drained. The Plant is still running, however, to<BR>
generate the final spike needed to translate, even as the DT's are falling<BR>
away. You can't jump without the final spike; you can't hold the final<BR>
spike (It's just big enough to trip the Zuccai crystals into dumping mode),<BR>
and you won't have enough fusion by products for second stage fusion to get<BR>
enough of a spike to translate unless you've been running the plant. The<BR>
Vast majority of the fuel is coolant, IMTU; about 75% of it at TL's 10-16.<BR>
And, based upon several bits of canon scattered about, IMTU, the boundary<BR>
of the jump bubble is permeable to matter, but not J-space physics; the<BR>
bubble moves through J-space and is generated by either the coils or the<BR>
hull grids. If you put mattter out the bubble, it disassembles itself in<BR>
1d6 Plank Units of time, so the "Filling the Bubble" theories don't work<BR>
for me. (Ref there is GDWs The Traveller Adventure.)<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 18:15:25 -0600<BR>
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconn@i1.net><BR>
Subject: Information Needed<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone out there have an e-mail address or <BR>
contact information for Michael Brines?<BR>
<BR>
Please advise at your convenience<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
Pat Connaughton <BR>
ICQ # 2535086<BR>
pconn@i1.net<BR>
"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not<BR>
how to reign"<BR>
Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 18:11:39 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
<BR>
On 01/01/00 at 06:02 PM,  "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>So what's the slang term for this period?  Like, "the twenties" is good<BR>
>for either 1920-29 or 2020-29, and "the nineties" applicable for 1990-99<BR>
>or 2090-99... but what did people call 1900-1909?<BR>
<BR>
Naught (not aught) or nought, depending on your spelling.  Naught<BR>
means 0. As in "nineteen naught seven".<BR>
<BR>
I suspect we'll use either: <BR>
<BR>
"Oh", as in "Where will you be on April first, twenty oh five.";<BR>
<BR>
or <BR>
<BR>
"Two thousand", as in "I plan to retire in two thousand seven."<BR>
<BR>
And I wouldn't be surprised if the recently past Ninties are looked<BR>
back on as the "Nasty Ninties."<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1620<BR>
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1620<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1621</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 1 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1621<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: OT: FW: moderator: America, as seen by a Canadian<BR>
Re: Keyboard kills<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
15mm SF mini's?<BR>
Re: Keyboard kills<BR>
Re: A Microsith Postcard for the TML (with penguin)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1620<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1620<BR>
drop tanks<BR>
Re: Horses<BR>
Re Old Tech<BR>
Re Drop Tanks<BR>
Re MT Type A's<BR>
Aught vs Naught<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
RE: [future_wars] OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
Re: 15mm SF mini's?<BR>
Re: Aught vs Naught<BR>
Re: Alpha testers needed - CT character generator.<BR>
Re: Low TL<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 18:15:45 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
<BR>
On 01/01/00 at 06:14 PM,  "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>Amazon.com's price: $28.44 US, or about $42.50 Canadian.<BR>
<BR>
>Amazon is now "out of stock" on the item, suggesting they were<BR>
>discounting below recommended list.<BR>
>Electronic Boutique has it for $34.95, though, which is still far lower<BR>
>than the Canadian game store prices.<BR>
<BR>
But Amazon *will* get copies in if you order them.  I placed an<BR>
order in early November, it took 3 weeks, but my order was filled at<BR>
the $28.44 price.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 15:37:22 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
>Just wanted to share with my net-friends on the TML.<BR>
><BR>
>When I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's in August of 1995, I was advised to<BR>
pick to goals.  One was a short term goal, to get through the initial<BR>
surguries and chemotherapy.<BR>
><BR>
>For that, I chose the release of the Regency Sourcebook.<BR>
><BR>
>The second goal was a long term survival goal, something a few years down<BR>
the line to look forward to.<BR>
><BR>
>I decided that living to see the Year 2000 was a good goal.<BR>
><BR>
>As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
><BR>
Omedetou!  (Congratulations!)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 16:28:31 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: FW: moderator: America, as seen by a Canadian<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/24/99 12:01 AM, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> As the US did everything possible to force its erstwhile allies to dis-<BR>
> gorge their colonial empires in the interests of free trade (while at the<BR>
> least maintaining if not extending their own informal empire) it would<BR>
> hardly seem unreasonable to assume that it was, in fact, deliberate.<BR>
<BR>
I'm glad I decided to plod through the 1K+ posts that have piled up during<BR>
my conquest of the New World (Imperialism 2 is one cool game!), as the<BR>
content is usually either entertaining or informative. Then there are cases<BR>
like this, where it is an echo of my own thought's, yet worded so much<BR>
better than I thought possible. Very succinct, and IMHO, so true.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 15:51:45<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Keyboard kills<BR>
<BR>
At 02:23 PM 1/1/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Maybe we need a rating system for these Involuntary Humor Response <BR>
>reactions.<BR>
><BR>
>Event                                Score<BR>
>------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
>Laugh out loud                       1.0<BR>
>Laugh out loud near mundanes         2.0<BR>
>Fall off chair                       3.0<BR>
>Spill drink                          4.0<BR>
>     Hit self                       +2.0<BR>
>     Hit keyboard                   +4.0<BR>
>     Nasal routing                  +8.0<BR>
>Spill food                           4.0<BR>
>     Hit self                       +2.0<BR>
>     Hit keyboard                   +4.0<BR>
>     Nasal routing                 +12.0<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
This is good, but it has to be the Universal Humor Profile (UHP)<BR>
<BR>
Might I suggest that getting somebody to come over and ask "Waht the Hell<BR>
is wrong with you be worth 1pt/person?<BR>
<BR>
Also, we reset all scores to zero.  It's a new day.  When you get got, post<BR>
your score.<BR>
<BR>
Let the games commence.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 16:31:18<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
At 03:37 PM 1/1/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Omedetou!  (Congratulations!)<BR>
<BR>
Arigato.<BR>
<BR>
Well that used up my impressive aresnal of Japanese...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:36:37 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: 15mm SF mini's?<BR>
<BR>
  If anyone is looking for 15mm mini's for their Trav games the following<BR>
looks pretty useful (especially " 15MM10.GIF "):<BR>
<BR>
        http://www.polomania.com/stan/15mm.htm<BR>
<BR>
  I don't suppose that anyone has actually bought any of these and is<BR>
able to comment on the quality of the adventurers figures?<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson - shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 18:44:17 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Keyboard kills<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Also, we reset all scores to zero.  It's a new day.  When you get got, post<BR>
> your score.<BR>
<BR>
Hey, we rolled over the Temporal Odometer last night, sounds like a good<BR>
time to wipe the slate clean and go with this new system.<BR>
> <BR>
> Let the games commence.<BR>
<BR>
I'll track it, and post monthly totals (both for the month in question,<BR>
and cumulative).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 16:34:21 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A Microsith Postcard for the TML (with penguin)<BR>
<BR>
>Check the following URL for a Microsith postcard for the TML:<BR>
><BR>
>To view your postcard click on<BR>
><BR>
>http://www.microsith.com/postcard/view.php3?key=070004900946771189<BR>
><BR>
>'Nuff said.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I am bringing Japanese Cool Mint gum to the next SF Traveller meeting if<BR>
there is one.  It has penguins on the wrappers.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 19:45:46 EST<BR>
From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1620<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/1/00 7:17:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Well the term at one time was aught, so you'd get people saying stuff like,<BR>
 "back in aught-eight", "I remember nineteen-aught-three", or "in the<BR>
 aughts". The term is a little archaic, though, so I wouldn't bet on it<BR>
 coming back into common usage.<BR>
  >><BR>
 <BR>
Americans are used to aught, but only in firearms...<BR>
"Thirty aught-six"<BR>
"Double-aught Buck"<BR>
<BR>
the current media, the great enforcers of language, are not smiling on guns, <BR>
though, so I think you are right. They will likely black-list the term if it <BR>
starts getting used, due to its use in the gun culture.<BR>
<BR>
Trav: was 1000 another holiday year in the 3I?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 18:57:58 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1620<BR>
<BR>
GaryBartz@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Trav: was 1000 another holiday year in the 3I?<BR>
<BR>
Not for people with relatives involved in the Solomani Rim War.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 19:51:33 EST<BR>
From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>
Subject: drop tanks<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/1/00 7:17:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Well, for a start, I'm proposing something different to canon. I don't<BR>
 know anyone who actually uses drop tanks in their campaigns, although I<BR>
 assume some people do. Are these drop tanks an Imperial Standard? Some sort<BR>
 of modular, click together array that starports lease out? Does a tug follow<BR>
 your ship to the jump point and recover the drop tank after use? Then why<BR>
 not use tankers like you said?<BR>
     I like more hard edged games where there is a constant threat of death<BR>
 for those cheesy PCs (this comes from always being made to GM) so the threat<BR>
 of asphyxiating in a jump tunnel limbo is a good way of making my players<BR>
 maintain their maintenance schedules, anything apart from a serious bomb is<BR>
 probably repairable within thirty days anyway. I can't see how anyone could<BR>
 get into an existing jump space tunnel to perform a rescue, that infers you<BR>
 could follow a ship into jump space and continue combat for a week. I like<BR>
 non canon settings but I'm not touching that.<BR>
 >><BR>
<BR>
I ruled that drop tanks are Mil only, since they increase the chances of a <BR>
jump mishap [handwave], so the insurance companies have a blanket no insure <BR>
policy on any drop tank vessel [missing your overhaul invalidates your <BR>
policy, as well]<BR>
A non-military contract yard could install tanks, but they don't since only <BR>
PCs and other worn out tramps on the fringe would want them, since any bank <BR>
requires insurance for their loan.<BR>
Even the navy only uses them when they really really need them, and never on <BR>
a line ship.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 19:57:34 EST<BR>
From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/1/00 7:17:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< <argh>  This recently came up on another list, but that fellow was<BR>
 fairly certain that it was true, evidently because he found it on the<BR>
 web, therefore it must be true...  <_argh_><BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Actually, the ruts in Pompeii are about that width...from the carts. I <BR>
noticed that the distance between the street stepping stones was a set <BR>
measure---the streets themselves being part of the sewage system and animal <BR>
transportation being in use. The cart wheels would have to be standard gauge <BR>
to fit between the stones.<BR>
<BR>
Gary<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 16:00:13 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Old Tech<BR>
<BR>
>>> Ha! My Timex/Sinclair 1000 is IMMUNE to the dreaded Y2K bug so<BR>
>>> devastating to your inferior machines. Bwa ha ha ha ...<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Hmm ... I wonder how hard it would be to interface a modem to it<BR>
>...<BR>
On a good day, you could phone files to a friend... You needed a good clear<BR>
connection (so it was in town only), a loud but clear headset, and a mike<BR>
to the reciever's phone (They made stick on mikes for taping your incoming<BR>
calls... they only got what was said to you tho...), punch in the load<BR>
command at the recieving end, push play at the sending end while holding<BR>
the headset to the handset's microphone. I've done this. Once. Then my<BR>
folks took aways the tools, as I hadn't asked to use the mic.<BR>
<BR>
You could also direct transfer between two TS's, by simply cross-wiring<BR>
between the data out (To Mic) and DataIn (To line Out) jacks. The TS really<BR>
didn't care whether it got live or recorded signals.<BR>
<BR>
I've still got one. It needs a keyboard... as the keyboard connector<BR>
printed ribbon cable cracked a long time ago.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 16:08:06 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
>    Well, for a start, I'm proposing something different to canon. I don't<BR>
>know anyone who actually uses drop tanks in their campaigns, although I<BR>
>assume some people do. Are these drop tanks an Imperial Standard? Some sort<BR>
>of modular, click together array that starports lease out? Does a tug follow<BR>
>your ship to the jump point and recover the drop tank after use? Then why<BR>
>not use tankers like you said?<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, Drop tanks are designed specifically for a given class, and even<BR>
then, it needs to be on spec to mate up properly. Sure, they're resuable,<BR>
assuming they survive, and are recovered. No, they won't lease them, as if<BR>
they don't clear the J-Field, they come back in pieces, if at all.<BR>
<BR>
And, since IMTU, you can't jump on capacitors alone...... you have to have<BR>
a plant going to jump, and that plant needs fuel. SO you have a narrow<BR>
window to drop the externals and NOT catch at least part of them in the<BR>
distortions of jumping.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 15:39:57 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re MT Type A's<BR>
<BR>
>> Obviously an MT interpretation is called for. This is an<BR>
>> airframe version of the Type-A, but is otherwise standard so far.<BR>
>> Anyone have a prefered TL?<BR>
><BR>
>Can you do it at more than one TL perhaps?<BR>
><BR>
>If you do only one how about TL 12.<BR>
<BR>
I'd suggest the following TL's:<BR>
10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16<BR>
<BR>
TL9, being pregravitic, is going to be a wholly different experience, even<BR>
if you could eke out the same performance; the decks would have to be<BR>
capable of Zero-G for extended periods.<BR>
<BR>
TL10, you have the AG. But you can only get to orbit on Anti-Grav thruster<BR>
units. Near and Deep Space will require other thrust agencies, out of<BR>
HT/One Small Step.<BR>
TL11, you get to real Gravitic Thrusters, and can also get to the J2.<BR>
TL13, PP mass per volume drops, while power out per vol increases.<BR>
TL15, Again with the PP. (MpV down, PpV up)<BR>
TL16 Yet again with the PP. (MpV down, PpV up)<BR>
<BR>
Since a basic merchantman really only needs EMS Arrays, lets plot the EMS<BR>
Arrays by TL:<BR>
TL	10	11	12	13	14	15	16<BR>
AEMS	*	*	*		*		*<BR>
PEMS	*	*	*	*	*		*<BR>
My Recs	*	*		*	*	*	*<BR>
The only TL  I suggested which doesn't have a sensor Break is 15...<BR>
<BR>
Note also that MT's design sequences, if you include all the options from<BR>
Challenge and Hard Times (Which merely reprinted from Challenge, BTW), you<BR>
geta really wide variety of craft capable of being constructed... but they<BR>
do not match any other Traveller design sequences except Striker; even<BR>
there the armor is not compatable. Striker Armor is part of the volume; MT<BR>
armor is external.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 16:21:24 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Aught vs Naught<BR>
<BR>
>On 01/01/00 at 06:02 PM,  "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net> said:<BR>
><BR>
>>So what's the slang term for this period?  Like, "the twenties" is good<BR>
>>for either 1920-29 or 2020-29, and "the nineties" applicable for 1990-99<BR>
>>or 2090-99... but what did people call 1900-1909?<BR>
><BR>
>Naught (not aught) or nought, depending on your spelling.  Naught<BR>
>means 0. As in "nineteen naught seven".<BR>
><BR>
'aught was used by my great grandfather, and every other person I've<BR>
*personally* talked to who lived in the era. Great Grandaddy dies at 102<BR>
years old, in the 1980's... and for Zero he said Naught, for the early<BR>
decade he said 'aught. Then again, they're all west-coasters...<BR>
specifically Pacific Northwest.<BR>
<BR>
And, when last she mentioned her birthdate, my grandmother said<BR>
"Aught-nine"... (She's the daughter-in-law of the above mentioned grgrpa).<BR>
<BR>
Also, might I point you in the direction of the Thirty-aught-six rifle<BR>
(.30-06 Rifle), and "Double-aught Buckshot" (00 buckshot) for your shotgun.<BR>
<BR>
Then agaiin, I've never heard a Floridian say "Aught" in any context.<BR>
Including the homonym ("ought") which is a synonym for "Should".<BR>
<BR>
>I suspect we'll use either:<BR>
><BR>
>"Oh", as in "Where will you be on April first, twenty oh five.";<BR>
<BR>
My friends and I have been using the "Aught-Five" mode since about 1995.<BR>
Most of us grew up in alaska, oregon, washington, or hawaii.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 17:56:58 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 08:45 PM 12/31/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> >Happy -2518, and remember, while the Imperium is cool and all, the Solomani<BR>
> >have got *the Party*!<BR>
><BR>
> "Ain't no party like a Solomani party, 'cause the Solomani party don't<BR>
> stop...."<BR>
><BR>
> Kirsten M. Berry<BR>
> going for a proxy kill<BR>
<BR>
 Damn we're all still here..... Now I have to go to work tomorrow.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 21:05:14 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: RE: [future_wars] OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:42:39 -0600<BR>
>From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
>Subject: [future_wars] OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
><BR>
>I got this off of another mailing list. I'm not certain that it's true, but<BR>
>it might be useful if you need an example of why something in the Imperium<BR>
>is set up the way it is.  <BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Engineering History<BR>
><BR>
> The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is<BR>
> 4 feet 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was<BR>
> that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in<BR>
> England, and English expatriates built the US railroads.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>  Roman war chariots first made the initial ruts, which<BR>
> everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon<BR>
> wheels and wagons. Since the chariots were made for, or by<BR>
> Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel<BR>
> spacing.<BR>
<BR>
Sounds nicely pithy, except that the Roman army did not use<BR>
war chariots.  I'd take the whole thing with a very large grain of salt.<BR>
<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 21:07:19 -0500<BR>
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 15mm SF mini's?<BR>
<BR>
At 04:36 PM 12/30/1999 -0800, Steven wrote:<BR>
>   If anyone is looking for 15mm mini's for their Trav games the following<BR>
>looks pretty useful (especially " 15MM10.GIF "):<BR>
><BR>
>         http://www.polomania.com/stan/15mm.htm<BR>
><BR>
>   I don't suppose that anyone has actually bought any of these and is<BR>
>able to comment on the quality of the adventurers figures?<BR>
<BR>
I have picked up several sets of these figures over the years - they're <BR>
pretty nice.  They were originally produced for the old FGU Space Opera <BR>
game.  Fourfigs.jpg, below, shows a Martian Metals Vargr, a Stan Johansen <BR>
female adventurer, a Stan Johansen male adventurer, and a Laserburn <BR>
noble/gentleman.  Twofigsa shows the Vargr and the male adventurer while <BR>
twofigsb shows the female and the Laserburn figure.<BR>
<BR>
http://members.home.com/worj/twofigsa.jpg<BR>
http://members.home.com/worj/twofigsb.jpg<BR>
http://members.home.com/worj/fourfigs.jpg<BR>
<BR>
As you can see, the detail on the faces and hands tends towards the coarse, <BR>
but, as they're 15s, this doesn't really hurt anything when viewed with the <BR>
naked eye (and several times smaller than the pictures!)<BR>
<BR>
No apologies for the paint jobs, which were done about 15 years ago!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bill Rutherford<BR>
worj@home.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 20:06:03 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Aught vs Naught<BR>
<BR>
On 01/01/00 at 07:53 PM,  "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>Naught (not aught) or nought, depending on your spelling.  Naught<BR>
>>means 0. As in "nineteen naught seven".<BR>
<BR>
>'aught was used by my great grandfather, and every other person I've<BR>
>*personally* talked to who lived in the era. Great Grandaddy dies at 102<BR>
>years old, in the 1980's... and for Zero he said Naught, for the early<BR>
>decade he said 'aught. Then again, they're all west-coasters...<BR>
>specifically Pacific Northwest.<BR>
<BR>
>And, when last she mentioned her birthdate, my grandmother said<BR>
>"Aught-nine"... (She's the daughter-in-law of the above mentioned<BR>
>grgrpa).<BR>
<BR>
Well, my older kinfolk would say "aught nine" too, and my Uncle Eris<BR>
loaded his shotgun with "double-aught", but being Southern we are<BR>
*known* for dropping letters and generally mangling standard<BR>
english.  I ought to know...I'm pronouncing ought, "aught", BTW.  Of<BR>
course, I reckon if'n I wus in a hurry, I'd'a said "aught'a know."<BR>
<g><BR>
<BR>
Aught means a little bit, naught means zero.  I'll leave it up to<BR>
you which is appropriate.  Of course, appropriate has little to do<BR>
with what people actually do.  <g> I'd just point out that what I've<BR>
*heard* and what I've seen written out are two different things.<BR>
<BR>
>Then agaiin, I've never heard a Floridian say "Aught" in any context.<BR>
>Including the homonym ("ought") which is a synonym for "Should".<BR>
<BR>
Then you ain't been listening! <g><BR>
<BR>
>>I suspect we'll use either:<BR>
<BR>
>>"Oh", as in "Where will you be on April first, twenty oh five.";<BR>
<BR>
>My friends and I have been using the "Aught-Five" mode since about 1995.<BR>
>Most of us grew up in alaska, oregon, washington, or hawaii.<BR>
<BR>
Good luck. <BR>
<BR>
Weakly Ob Trav: Does anyone use dialects in their Traveller games?<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 02:19:45 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Alpha testers needed - CT character generator.<BR>
<BR>
Jory,<BR>
<BR>
Just 'reply' to the message and the appropriate email address appears by<BR>
magic in the '-----Original Message-----' header. Just copy and paste into<BR>
the To: section to reply direct to the sender. eg, looking at the headers in<BR>
this message, your address is j-man@iname.com and Iain's (capital i [ I ],<BR>
not l [ L ] as you put it) is ilaskey@cix.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
HTH.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, Iain, I'd be interested in alpha testing your CT CharGen software too.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond<BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jory Earl <j-man@iname.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 01 January 2000 19:11<BR>
Subject: Re: Alpha testers needed - CT character generator.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I don't have your email addy on hand, Lain and Microbopped's Outlook isn't<BR>
>allowing me to reply just to you, so send an email with that character gen<BR>
>to me.  I still play CT.<BR>
>___________________________________________________________<BR>
> J-Man<BR>
> ICQ# 2843475<BR>
> New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
> Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
> Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
>___________________________________________________________<BR>
><BR>
>----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: "Iain Laskey" <ilaskey@cix.co.uk><BR>
>To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
>Cc: <ilaskey@cix.co.uk><BR>
>Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 12:51 PM<BR>
>Subject: Alpha testers needed - CT character generator.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>> I'm working on a Windows 95/98/NT based application written in VB6 that<BR>
>> will eventually (I hope) grow to be a fully featured commercial grade<BR>
tool<BR>
>> for generating CT characters, subsectors etc.<BR>
>><BR>
>> The first alpha version is now almost done and allows the generation of<BR>
>> Navy characters only. It lacks both the ability to save them or to print<BR>
>> them but is intended more as a testbed for the lok/feel/feasibility.<BR>
>><BR>
>> If anyone wants to test/try this (I expect the email to be around 1.8Mb -<BR>
>> doncha love VB6...) I would be very grateful. Email me and I'll send a<BR>
>> copy by return when it's ready.<BR>
>><BR>
>> It is based on CT because that's the only system I know or have an<BR>
>> interest in - screaming emails demanding a MegaTraveller or T4 version<BR>
>> won't get you anywhere! I also intend releasing it as Shareware not<BR>
>> Freeware mainly because with so many other things to do, I need to<BR>
>> justify it to my wife ;-)<BR>
>><BR>
>> Thanks.<BR>
>> Iain<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 21:25:33 EST<BR>
From: Clifford N Linehan <cnl.rubicon@juno.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Low TL<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 00:34:43 PST From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
Erickson)<BR>
>TL-1 is "Bronze Age to Middle Ages" in my copy of the Traveller Book.<BR>
>Such tech is capable of *maintaining* an asteroid colony. Just barely.<BR>
>- -- <BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
"Now son, always remember when the floating wagon no longer floats,<BR>
consult the good book and follow the words of Saint Tim Taylor."<BR>
<BR>
With a supply of spare parts and the understanding of diagnostics and<BR>
proper replacement a TL-1 can maintain any TL. Without one of the three,<BR>
the higher tech systems will end up failing at some future date causing<BR>
the death of all inhabitants.<BR>
<BR>
Clifford Linehan<BR>
cnl.rubicon@juno.com<BR>
"When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets." - Lazarus Long (By<BR>
R. A. Heinlein)<BR>
IMTU tc+ tm+ ?tn- ?t4- tg++ ?tt to ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt au st+ ls pi+ ta he+<BR>
kk hi as va dr so zh+ vi da sy<BR>
<BR>
________________________________________________________________<BR>
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!<BR>
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!<BR>
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:<BR>
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1621<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1622</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	1/1/00 9:24:40 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1622<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Keyboard kills <BR>
Re: [future_wars] OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
RE: Santanocheev the man...<BR>
Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1620<BR>
RE: OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
Re Aught vs Naught<BR>
Re: 15mm SF mini's?<BR>
Re: Horses<BR>
Re: Chow-chow-chow back on topic!<BR>
Re: GURPS: trav ships and their power requirements<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1599<BR>
RE: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
[WWW] 01 Jan 2000 - Freelance Traveller Updated<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
Re: Horses<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: Happy New Year! <BR>
Re: Fifth Frontier War at Kristian Miller's<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 19:22:33 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Keyboard kills <BR>
<BR>
> Also, we reset all scores to zero.  It's a new day.  When you get got, post<BR>
> your score.<BR>
> <BR>
> Let the games commence.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Looks like I got first blood when I got Walt then...<BR>
<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:27:54 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: [future_wars] OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
<BR>
>Sounds nicely pithy, except that the Roman army did not use<BR>
>war chariots.  I'd take the whole thing with a very large grain of salt.<BR>
<BR>
    This came up on the Space 1889 list. No, the "Romans" did not use war<BR>
chariots. Yes, they did have a standard axle for their supply wagons.<BR>
    It shouldn't stop there though, the Romans didn't invent the wagon.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:02:28 +1100<BR>
From: "AB" <ab@rossmack.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Santanocheev the man...<BR>
<BR>
>Who were Santanocheev's "political and social connections"? the persons who<BR>
had promoted him to Sector Admiral<BR>
<BR>
I based a significant episode in my traveller campaign around the<BR>
assasination of the Sector Admiral of the Spinward Marches and his<BR>
replacement by a compliant puppet (Santanocheev) who was sympathetic to the<BR>
interests of the powers who had the previous incumbant bumped off.<BR>
<BR>
I took a stab at his character:<BR>
http://www.rossmack.com/ab/RPG/traveller/TravChar.asp?FirstName=Fredrik&Last<BR>
Name=Santanocheev  (We were using a variant RPG system at the time...)<BR>
<BR>
- -AB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 21:26:30 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
<BR>
From: <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Naught (not aught) or nought, depending on your spelling.  Naught<BR>
> means 0. As in "nineteen naught seven".<BR>
<BR>
Eris, I'm going to disagree with you here, strongly. A decent dictionary<BR>
will show that aught means zero as well. Aught is frequently used, when<BR>
spoken, for zero. In transcribed narratives from the late 19th and early<BR>
20th century the term "aught" as a spoken version of 0 pops up quite a bit,<BR>
and not just in dates, either. In transcribed narratives of a more recent<BR>
vintage, however, it has been replaced with the term "oh".<BR>
<BR>
In addition, I was involved in metal working for many years, and extra fine<BR>
steel wool is referred to as triple-aught. In the written form, the grade<BR>
appears as 000. Also, some gun folks are familiar with the term as well. For<BR>
example, #00 buckshot is sometimes called double aught. A friend of mine<BR>
always referred to his rifle as a "thirty-aught-six".<BR>
<BR>
The online Merriam-Webster dictionary gives the following etymology:<BR>
"alteration (resulting from false division of /a naught/) of /naught/". It<BR>
gives 1872 as the date of the word's introduction. I'd much rather have an<BR>
OED at my disposal though.<BR>
<BR>
Please Note: The slashes indicate italics in the original text.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 21:41:36 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1620<BR>
<BR>
From: <GaryBartz@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Americans are used to aught, but only in firearms...<BR>
> "Thirty aught-six"<BR>
> "Double-aught Buck"<BR>
><BR>
> the current media, the great enforcers of language, are not smiling<BR>
> on guns,  though, so I think you are right. They will likely black-list<BR>
the<BR>
> term if it  starts getting used, due to its use in the gun culture.<BR>
<BR>
I really doubt that the term will come back into general use, not because of<BR>
a media conspiracy, but because language has changed. "Oh", for the most<BR>
part, has replaced "aught". After all, James Bond is double-oh-seven, not<BR>
double-aught-seven. If nearly anybody I knew was talking about an event<BR>
which happened in 1905 they'd say nineteen-oh-five, not nineteen-aught-five.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not going to speculate on how people will refer to the zero decade, or<BR>
years within it. The two candidates which Eris presented look pretty good to<BR>
me. I've never met anybody who called the Kubrick film 2001 "twenty-oh-one",<BR>
but I've met a number of people who call its sequel "twenty-ten". I think<BR>
that we'll find out soon enough!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 18:53:45 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: RE: OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
<BR>
>From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
>Subject: RE: [future_wars] OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
...<BR>
>>  Roman war chariots first made the initial ruts, which<BR>
>> everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon<BR>
>> wheels and wagons. Since the chariots were made for, or by<BR>
>> Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing.<BR>
><BR>
>Sounds nicely pithy, except that the Roman army did not use<BR>
>war chariots.  I'd take the whole thing with a very large grain of salt.<BR>
<BR>
  That was the gist of my response to seeing it a couple of weeks ago:<BR>
<BR>
>>Author: Unknown. <BR>
><BR>
>  Not surprising; I think someone's leg is being pulled here:<BR>
> - "Imperial Rome" didn't use "war chariots"; I somewhat doubt that<BR>
>commissariat wagons were standardized.<BR>
> - Roman roads (however limited in extent in Britain) don't rut worth<BR>
>a damn, even if left for most of a millenia without maintenance (FWIW,<BR>
>cart axle lengths can be determined from Roman city ruins where the<BR>
>raised stones for street crossings survive - Pompeii comes to mind).<BR>
> - rail gauges in the UK were non-standard (_really_ non-standard).<BR>
> - tramways were an import from the US :)<BR>
><BR>
>>   Why did the English build them like that? Because the first rail<BR>
>>lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways,<BR>
>>and that's the gauge they used.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 17:53:44 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Aught vs Naught<BR>
<BR>
>Aught means a little bit, naught means zero.  I'll leave it up to<BR>
>you which is appropriate.  Of course, appropriate has little to do<BR>
>with what people actually do.  <g> I'd just point out that what I've<BR>
>*heard* and what I've seen written out are two different things.<BR>
><BR>
>>Then agaiin, I've never heard a Floridian say "Aught" in any context.<BR>
>>Including the homonym ("ought") which is a synonym for "Should".<BR>
><BR>
>Then you ain't been listening! <g><BR>
<BR>
Not Recently, though I ought to get caught in florida to spend some time<BR>
with a set of inlaws...<BR>
<BR>
I've not been to Florida in years, and very few people I've met up here<BR>
claim to be floridians... I had a roommate, once, who was from Pinellas<BR>
Park, tho', having been sent up here by the USAF...<BR>
<BR>
I mean, after all, reading is not hearing... <G,D,R,H><BR>
<BR>
>Weakly Ob Trav: Does anyone use dialects in their Traveller games?<BR>
><BR>
>Eris<BR>
<BR>
Well, I do, but mostly for comic relief.<BR>
<BR>
Moran sorta sounds like a crosss between Dallas lexicon, with Boston<BR>
Pronunciation through a german accent.<BR>
<BR>
Regninan is the default dialect IMTU's SM... for various reasons<BR>
historical, canonical and non.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 19:00:57 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 15mm SF mini's?<BR>
<BR>
>From: Bill Rutherford <worj@home.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: 15mm SF mini's?<BR>
...<BR>
>>   If anyone is looking for 15mm mini's for their Trav games the following<BR>
>>looks pretty useful (especially " 15MM10.GIF "):<BR>
>>         http://www.polomania.com/stan/15mm.htm<BR>
...<BR>
>I have picked up several sets of these figures over the years - they're <BR>
>pretty nice.  They were originally produced for the old FGU Space Opera <BR>
>game.  Fourfigs.jpg, below, shows a Martian Metals Vargr, a Stan Johansen <BR>
>female adventurer, a Stan Johansen male adventurer, and a Laserburn noble/<BR>
...<BR>
http://members.home.com/worj/fourfigs.jpg<BR>
<BR>
  The paintjobs are pretty remarkable given the size constraints (15's are<BR>
a real pain for several reasons - far tougher than the modest difference<BR>
between a proper 25mm and the 28mm Pudding Workshop mutants). Hmm, must <BR>
get hands on Stan Johansen mini's...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 19:06:29 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
<BR>
>Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
...<BR>
>Actually, the ruts in Pompeii are about that width...from the carts. I <BR>
>noticed that the distance between the street stepping stones was a set <BR>
>measure---the streets themselves being part of the sewage system and animal <BR>
>transportation being in use. The cart wheels would have to be standard gauge <BR>
>to fit between the stones.<BR>
 <BR>
  Well, there's a fair chunk of distance between the stepping stones (I<BR>
don't recall how much, though...), and I don't think that the streets<BR>
themselves were rutted. In any case, the heaviest wear on Roman roads<BR>
would have been from (supply) wagons, and certainly not the non-existant<BR>
"Roman war chariots".<BR>
<BR>
  OTOH, there are plenty of things where installed infrastructure does<BR>
affect future implementations, and the origins of the systems can be<BR>
pretty strange indeed. Imagine if someone designed computer chips on<BR>
the assumption that they'd be replaced before the limitations of their<BR>
date systems became a problem? :)<BR>
<BR>
  (hmm, the Kiel Canal comes to mind, IIRC...)<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 20:46:34 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Chow-chow-chow back on topic!<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:03:16 -0800 (PST)<BR>
> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: Chow-chow-chow back on topic!<BR>
> <BR>
> On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > > Another disgusting thought... you know, if you have ever had both cats<BR>
> > > and dogs at the same time, that some dogs will eat cat sh*t...  I wonder<BR>
> > > if Vargr will eat that.  Do they consider it a delicacy?  Can you imagine<BR>
> > > being a Free Trader and taking a "load" of this substance to a Vargr<BR>
> > > world?   Can you imagine being at a diplomatic event and finding out WHAT<BR>
> > > that stuff on the party tray actually is?<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > Now you know why "Almond Roca" is considered a delicacy by many Vargr, who<BR>
> > prefer it served in a tray of loose gravel.<BR>
> ><BR>
> Ew, I will never be able to look at that stuff the same way again!<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually a friend of mine sent me a recipe for a litter box cake. It's<BR>
> supposed to look like a cat's litter box and you are supposed to decorate<BR>
> the top with Tootsie Rolls.  EW!!!<BR>
> <BR>
> Think that they would go for that?<BR>
> <BR>
> I still remember a dessert I was once served long long ago.  It was some<BR>
> kind of chocolate cake mixed with pudding and it looked like dirt but it<BR>
> tasted wonderful.  My friend put gummy worms in it.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
	Dirt Cake! I love dirt cake! A friend of mine makes it for me. It's a<BR>
layer of ground Oreo cookies, a layer of chocolate pudding and another<BR>
layer of ground Oreo cookies, with mixed gummy worms. A must for serious<BR>
junk food addicts. <BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
	Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
	tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 02:44:40 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS: trav ships and their power requirements<BR>
<BR>
Agnostic Autotheist?<BR>
<BR>
does that translate to something like...<BR>
<BR>
"I believe I am (a) God, but I can't prove my existence"...?<BR>
<BR>
confused,<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond<BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 01 January 2000 22:19<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS: trav ships and their power requirements<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Eris wrote:<BR>
>> On 12/31/99 at 11:10 AM,  Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
said:<BR>
>><BR>
>> >IMTU, you need to run the FTL drive for a while (about 1 High Guard<BR>
>> >combat round)<BR>
>><BR>
>> Russell, I'm a heretic, so don't preach High Guard to me...I don't<BR>
>> worship at that altar. <g><BR>
><BR>
>Sorry, that was actually a typo for "20 or 30 minutes".<BR>
><BR>
>But heck, you shouldn't turn away from trivia just because it doesn't<BR>
>match your beliefs. I'm an agnostic autotheist and I still know a<BR>
>little bit of Christian lore.<BR>
><BR>
>-Russell B<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 03:02:36 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
Congratulations Doug<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond      <BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 01 January 2000 21:31<BR>
Subject: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Just wanted to share with my net-friends on the TML.<BR>
><BR>
>When I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's in August of 1995, I was advised to<BR>
>pick to goals.  One was a short term goal, to get through the initial<BR>
>surguries and chemotherapy.<BR>
><BR>
>For that, I chose the release of the Regency Sourcebook.<BR>
><BR>
>The second goal was a long term survival goal, something a few years down<BR>
>the line to look forward to.<BR>
><BR>
>I decided that living to see the Year 2000 was a good goal.<BR>
><BR>
>As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
>-- <BR>
><BR>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
><BR>
>TML Great Old One<BR>
>Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>
>Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 21:25:11 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1599<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 20:50:36 +1300<BR>
> From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
> Subject: Re: Passengers From Hell<BR>
> <BR>
> On 28 Dec 99, at 22:45, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Note that the Emergency Response Guide [Guide #40 in the 1993 ERG] for<BR>
> > aluminum powder (uncoated) lists the following potential hazards:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > May ignite itself if exposed to air;<BR>
> > May re-ignite after fire is extinguished;<BR>
> > Violent reaction with water produces flammable gas;<BR>
> > May be poisonous if inhaled<BR>
> <BR>
> Does it list milk-powder? It makes a fairly decent bang if it's ignited<BR>
> while suspended in air.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
	As I recall, just about any powered substance in Zero G and a spark<BR>
ought to make a really good bang. There have been more than one deadly<BR>
explosions in grain elevators for this reason, and I can imagine that<BR>
the zero-g and accelerations ought to mix the dust and air even more<BR>
thoroughly. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
	Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
	tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:52:32 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
<BR>
> From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
> Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
> <BR>
> On 01/01/00 at 06:14 PM,  "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >>Amazon.com's price: $28.44 US, or about $42.50 Canadian.<BR>
> <BR>
> >Amazon is now "out of stock" on the item, suggesting they were<BR>
> >discounting below recommended list.<BR>
> >Electronic Boutique has it for $34.95, though, which is still far lower<BR>
> >than the Canadian game store prices.<BR>
> <BR>
> But Amazon *will* get copies in if you order them.  I placed an<BR>
> order in early November, it took 3 weeks, but my order was filled at<BR>
> the $28.44 price.<BR>
<BR>
I ended up ordering it from Chapters.ca, which had it listed at $35<BR>
Canadian plus free shipping.  I'm amazed at the price point ranges here.<BR>
<BR>
One of my main interests in Dragon is the old reviews (I got Azhanti High<BR>
Lightning based on the Dragon review, I think -- if I remember correctly,<BR>
it had a nice full color shot of the deck plans) and the cartoons.<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of which, did any magazine other than White Dwarf ("The<BR>
Travellers") run a lengthy Traveller-inspired cartoon strip?  I vaguely<BR>
recall something called Space Trader Vic from another magazine (not Dragon<BR>
- -- it might have been Adventure Gaming) but can't remember whether that<BR>
was a Traveller-inspired. My only hazy recall is someone scrambling a<BR>
F-101 Voodoo to intercept a free trader...<BR>
<BR>
Thinking back to Adventure Gaming (?), that magazine ran a few interesting<BR>
Trav articles.  JD Webster had an interesting one on fleet tactics and<BR>
fighter operations... I remember it for his jingle "Fighter Pilot of the<BR>
Empire, That's Who the Hell I Am ... No Braver Meaner Specialist Does More<BR>
than What I Can" not to mention his writing up X-Wings, Tie Fighters and<BR>
Vipers for the Imperium background.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 22:57:28 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: [WWW] 01 Jan 2000 - Freelance Traveller Updated<BR>
<BR>
Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller<BR>
Resource has posted its most recent update to<BR>
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller and<BR>
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm.  <BR>
<BR>
This update features:<BR>
<BR>
 - Russel Bornschlegel brings us an extended Law Enforcement<BR>
   character generation sequence for Traveller and MegaTraveller.<BR>
   Find it in Doing It My Way.<BR>
<BR>
 - Jeff Zeitlin brings us a revised, more detailed Law<BR>
   Enforcement character generation sequence for Traveller: The<BR>
   New Era. This article is also in Doing It My Way.<BR>
<BR>
 - Thad Coons has come up with a concise method of profiling the<BR>
   social dynamics of a group.  Find it in Doing It My Way or the<BR>
   RICE Archives.<BR>
<BR>
 - For all you GURPS Traveller: First In owners, the Freelance<BR>
   Traveller Computer Connection has a solar system generator,<BR>
   supplied to Steve Jackson Games by a fan.  We're providing a<BR>
   link to the file, but to find out more, visit the SJG website.<BR>
<BR>
 - Using Internet Explorer 5?  Update your Favorites that point<BR>
   to Freelance Traveller - they will now be marked in your<BR>
   favorites list with an icon for Freelance Traveller or the<BR>
   RICE Archives. (We'd appreciate hearing if any other browsers<BR>
   support this feature.)<BR>
<BR>
Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at<BR>
Freelance Traveller.  Please write to<BR>
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com with any and all of them, as we are<BR>
in the process of reconfiguring the forms, and they may be<BR>
temporarily disabled.  Freelance Traveller depends on the good<BR>
will of Traveller fans both to visit our site and justify our<BR>
existence, and to write for us, making our existence possible.<BR>
<BR>
Freelance Traveller is mirrored at http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz.<BR>
<BR>
Freelance Traveller wishes to extend its thanks and appreciation<BR>
to The Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com) and to<BR>
Executive Network Information Systems (http://www.execnet.com)<BR>
for hosting services. Without organizations willing to cooperate<BR>
with Freelance Traveller's ever-growing needs, we would be unable<BR>
to bring you the articles and other resources that have made<BR>
Freelance Traveller one of the premier Traveller sites on the <BR>
'net.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 19:55:06 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/25/99 3:50 PM, Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net<BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> "cylons" (described in BG as a lizard like race)<BR>
<BR>
Note this is the "book" version, and not TV, where they were robots. I<BR>
preferred the book. But the TV Cylon voices were /cool/.<BR>
<BR>
I love the ideas so far.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 22:01:26 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
<BR>
Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
>   OTOH, there are plenty of things where installed infrastructure does<BR>
> affect future implementations, and the origins of the systems can be<BR>
> pretty strange indeed. Imagine if someone designed computer chips on<BR>
> the assumption that they'd be replaced before the limitations of their<BR>
> date systems became a problem? :)<BR>
> <BR>
>   (hmm, the Kiel Canal comes to mind, IIRC...)<BR>
<BR>
Well, I do know that one constraint on American capital ship design in<BR>
the years leading up to World War II was the width of the Panama Canal. <BR>
If you look at the three classes of battleships built beginning in the<BR>
late 1930s, you will notice something interesting:  while the three<BR>
classes (NORTH CAROLINA, SOUTH DAKOTA, and IOWA classes) have different<BR>
lengths and displacements, all three have the same beam:  108'3".  This<BR>
is the absolute widest beam a ship capable of passing through the Panama<BR>
Canal could have.  Indeed, the Japanese YAMATO-class battleship was<BR>
specifically designed to outfight any ship small enough to pass through<BR>
the Panama Canal, in the (partly-mistaken) belief that the US Navy would<BR>
not consider building a battleship to big to fit through the Canal. <BR>
(The five MONTANA-class battleships, which would have been too large to<BR>
fit, were authorized but never laid down, while several battleships<BR>
damaged at Pearl Harbor were, after their rebuilding, too large to pass<BR>
through the Canal.)<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:<BR>
<BR>
1.  IMTU, Imperial Navy vessels in the Spinward Marches are often TL-12<BR>
or TL-13, simply because the Marches lack the technological base to<BR>
maintain a fleet of uniformly TL-15 ships.<BR>
<BR>
2.  Naval vessels may also be limited in size, based on the availability<BR>
of repair facilities large enough to handle them.  Large repair<BR>
facilities may become major targets in wartime. (Witness the lengths to<BR>
which the British went to deny the drydocks at St. Naizaire to the Nazis<BR>
[a commando raid, complete with an explosive-laden ship ramming the<BR>
docks].  This was because St. Nazaire was one of the few facilities on<BR>
the French Atlantic coast capable of handling the German battleship<BR>
TIRPITZ.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:20:22 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
Date sent:      	Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:25:14<BR>
From:           	"Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
> As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
<BR>
Somewhere there must be a penguin watching over you<BR>
<BR>
(sorry Doug, I just couldn't resist, but seriously congrats)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Andrew etc<BR>
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:53:48 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 1 Jan 2000 19:13:48 -0500 (EST), "Douglas E. Berry"<BR>
<gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Just wanted to share with my net-friends on the TML.<BR>
<BR>
>When I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's in August of 1995, I was advised to<BR>
>pick to goals.  One was a short term goal, to get through the initial<BR>
>surguries and chemotherapy.<BR>
<BR>
>For that, I chose the release of the Regency Sourcebook.<BR>
<BR>
>The second goal was a long term survival goal, something a few years down<BR>
>the line to look forward to.<BR>
<BR>
>I decided that living to see the Year 2000 was a good goal.<BR>
<BR>
>As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
<BR>
Excuse me?  I have no intention - or even desire - to engage in<BR>
reproductive activities - even in recreational mode - with a<BR>
_disease_.<BR>
<BR>
So what's your status now (Besides "Alive, gloriously", that is)?<BR>
And what's your _next_ long-term goal?<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure that the entire list will be pulling for you!<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 21:52:26 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year! <BR>
<BR>
> Well, it seems that most of the world survived intact. Just one question<BR>
> though; what on earth are we going to do with all these penguins?<BR>
<BR>
I've been told they taste like chicken...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 20:59:43 -0800<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fifth Frontier War at Kristian Miller's<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 04:29 PM 12/31/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> >Sorry to send this to the list, but I don't have Kristian's or<BR>
> >Luther's email addresses in my yahoo address book.<BR>
<BR>
I'm afraid I don't know who the original poster of this was, but my <BR>
email is:<BR>
travellerne@3rd-imperium.com<BR>
<BR>
The next meeting for Traveller miniatures and boardgames is Saturday, <BR>
January 22.  I will be running "Brilliant Lances" with miniatures and<BR>
the Fifth Frontier War will continue.<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 21:11:39 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
Doug wrote:<BR>
> I decided that living to see the Year 2000 was a good goal.<BR>
> <BR>
> As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
<BR>
Congratulations, Doug. I think it's safe to say that all of us, <BR>
particularly those with penguin fetishes and/or shares of stock <BR>
in companies that manufacture computer keyboards, are glad you're<BR>
still with us.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:26:41 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
I apologize in advance for bringing up what I'm sure is a tired topic on<BR>
this list.  I haven't subscribed to TML since shortly after the hotly<BR>
anticipated release of T4 so I'm a little out of it and the FAQ didn't<BR>
seem to address my questions:<BR>
<BR>
What are the plans for T5?  Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE<BR>
canon?  Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
Being a long time CT player, I was very excited about T4, but my disgust<BR>
with the released product nearly caused me to put down Traveller for<BR>
good.<BR>
<BR>
I recently picked up GURPS Traveller and GURPS Traveller: Far Trader.  I<BR>
personally think GURPS Traveller is excellent, and Far Trader is<BR>
possibly one of the best supplements I've seen in my 17 years as a RPG<BR>
enthusiast.  The GURPS system seems perfect for the diversity of the<BR>
Traveller universe.  I'm happy to say the my love of Traveller has been<BR>
completely renewed and I'm reviving a broad reaching campaign for my<BR>
regular group....and I'm subscribing to this list again.<BR>
<BR>
However, I'm wondering what others think of GURPS Traveller.  Is it or<BR>
is it going to be the "official" traveller?  Do we need T5? <BR>
<BR>
Again, I'm sorry if this topic has been hashed over a zillion times. <BR>
I'm just looking to get up to speed a little.  So feel free just respond<BR>
directly to me if this is not an interesting topic here anymore (or if<BR>
it will cause too much needless bickering).<BR>
<BR>
Thanks much,<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1622<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1623</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1623<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Horses<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
RE:<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re:  Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Horses<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Horses<BR>
THUDDD in the 3rd millennium continued<BR>
GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:24:06 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
<BR>
On 01/01/00 at 11:22 PM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav:<BR>
<BR>
>1.  IMTU, Imperial Navy vessels in the Spinward Marches are often TL-12<BR>
>or TL-13, simply because the Marches lack the technological base to<BR>
>maintain a fleet of uniformly TL-15 ships.<BR>
<BR>
>2.  Naval vessels may also be limited in size, based on the availability<BR>
>of repair facilities large enough to handle them.  Large repair<BR>
>facilities may become major targets in wartime. (Witness the lengths to<BR>
>which the British went to deny the drydocks at St. Naizaire to the Nazis<BR>
>[a commando raid, complete with an explosive-laden ship ramming the<BR>
>docks].  This was because St. Nazaire was one of the few facilities on<BR>
>the French Atlantic coast capable of handling the German battleship<BR>
>TIRPITZ.)<BR>
<BR>
This isn't something that Traveller (even High Guard) has ever done,<BR>
but what about limiting the volume of ships by Tech Level?  As the<BR>
TL goes up, the maximum volume of ships also goes up. <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:26:29 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
On 01/01/00 at 11:25 PM,  "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> Well, it seems that most of the world survived intact. Just one question<BR>
>> though; what on earth are we going to do with all these penguins?<BR>
<BR>
>I've been told they taste like chicken...<BR>
<BR>
Hell, *everything* tastes like chicken. I bet Droyne taste like chicken!<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:33:44 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
<BR>
>What are the plans for T5?  Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE<BR>
>canon?  Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Steve Jackson Games, in general, & GURPS specificly, sucks.  I hate<BR>
GURPS & its simpleminded players.  I hate their arrogance, I hate their lack<BR>
of gender, I hate their high pitched voices, but, I love the way they run<BR>
when you put a real game, like CT, on the table.<BR>
<BR>
>However, I'm wondering what others think of GURPS Traveller.  Is it or<BR>
>is it going to be the "official" traveller?  Do we need T5?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    As a rule, I hate GURPS Traveller, & think it should be burned along<BR>
with Steve Jackson, his game company, the writers, & anyone else assoiciated<BR>
with it, but the artists, but the Artwork is damn good.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 21:35:27 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 01/01/00 at 11:25 PM,  "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
> >> Well, it seems that most of the world survived intact. Just one question<BR>
> >> though; what on earth are we going to do with all these penguins?<BR>
><BR>
> >I've been told they taste like chicken...<BR>
><BR>
> Hell, *everything* tastes like chicken. I bet Droyne taste like chicken!<BR>
<BR>
Now that is a caste I never thought of..... FOOD.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:40:27 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On 01/01/00 at 11:28 PM,  Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>What are the plans for T5?  Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE canon? <BR>
>Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
Oh, boy!  First "What happens to jump fuel?" and now the return of<BR>
"System Wars!"  <g> The TML is going to be a lively place.<BR>
<BR>
>I recently picked up GURPS Traveller and GURPS Traveller: Far Trader.  I<BR>
>personally think GURPS Traveller is excellent, and Far Trader is possibly<BR>
>one of the best supplements I've seen in my 17 years as a RPG enthusiast. <BR>
>The GURPS system seems perfect for the diversity of the Traveller<BR>
>universe.  I'm happy to say the my love of Traveller has been completely<BR>
>renewed and I'm reviving a broad reaching campaign for my regular<BR>
>group....and I'm subscribing to this list again.<BR>
<BR>
Great!  I agree GT and many of its supplements are *really* very<BR>
good.  Some folks have objections about some aspects of GURPS and<BR>
the GT setting, but that shouldn't get in the way of anyone else<BR>
enjoying the game.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I'm looking forward to T5.   It would be nice if Marc<BR>
would give us an update on how its coming along. <BR>
<BR>
I'm also looking forward to the reprints of the CT materials. <BR>
<BR>
Here's hoping for a year full of many, many Traveller releases, lots<BR>
of Traveller games and TML Splort's galore!<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 00:41:12 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Get an update on T5 from Marc Miller's site http://members.aol.com/traveller<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Stuart Bailey" <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I apologize in advance for bringing up what I'm sure is a tired topic on<BR>
> this list.  I haven't subscribed to TML since shortly after the hotly<BR>
> anticipated release of T4 so I'm a little out of it and the FAQ didn't<BR>
> seem to address my questions:<BR>
> <BR>
> What are the plans for T5?  Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE<BR>
> canon?  Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:50:57 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE:<BR>
<BR>
> >That's the point. If humans and chimps are interbreedable, then we've<BR>
> >misclassified, and either Pan trogolydytes (IIRC) should be Homo Pan,<BR>
> >or we should be Pan sapiens.<BR>
> <BR>
> I thought chips were Pan Pan...<BR>
<BR>
Stop stuttering. <BR>
<BR>
Anyway, chips can be oven-fried too. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 21:49:39 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Bailey wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> What are the plans for T5?<BR>
<BR>
Still born if the mechanics in the last editions are still there.<BR>
<BR>
> Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE<BR>
> canon?<BR>
<BR>
Only if you want to lose the rebellion.<BR>
<BR>
> Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
In a Word yes.<BR>
<BR>
> Being a long time CT player, I was very excited about T4, but my disgust<BR>
> with the released product nearly caused me to put down Traveller for<BR>
> good.<BR>
<BR>
Yep.... Nearly sent me round the bend too.<BR>
<BR>
> However, I'm wondering what others think of GURPS Traveller.  Is it or<BR>
> is it going to be the "official" traveller?<BR>
<BR>
I hope so.<BR>
<BR>
> Do we need T5?<BR>
<BR>
Not if it looks like T4.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:54:54 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
>     Steve Jackson Games, in general, & GURPS specificly, sucks.  I hate<BR>
> GURPS & its simpleminded players.  I hate their arrogance, I hate their lack<BR>
> of gender, I hate their high pitched voices, but, I love the way they run<BR>
> when you put a real game, like CT, on the table.<BR>
<BR>
For many years I held a similar opinion.  That changed when one of my<BR>
friends converted The Morrow Project (possibly the best post<BR>
holocaust/para-military game premise with possibly the worst game<BR>
mechanics) to GURPS.  It was that experience which made me confident<BR>
that GURPS could handle the gritty realistic setting of CT.<BR>
<BR>
>     As a rule, I hate GURPS Traveller, & think it should be burned along<BR>
> with Steve Jackson, his game company, the writers, & anyone else assoiciated<BR>
> with it, but the artists, but the Artwork is damn good.<BR>
<BR>
That's exactly how I feel about T4, MegaTraveller, and New Era.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the input,<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 21:32:06 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re:  Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
>> I've heard of one big electric company sending out bills with a due<BR>
>> date in Jan 1900. This was followed by a comment by the newscaster<BR>
>> about no Y2k problems having been noted so far. :-(<BR>
>> <BR>
>> <sigh> It'd be nice if the people reporting this stuff had some idea<BR>
>> what it was all about.<BR>
><BR>
>But that would require  _brains_ as well as looks, Leonard. Kerist, just<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
I think by "Y2K" problems the newscaster meant things like power grids<BR>
going offline, nuclear plant meltdowns -- you know, disasters. Getting<BR>
a bill with a 1900 due date isn't a disaster, it's at worst an annoyance.<BR>
<BR>
>As far as that billing mistake, I suspect the one of the bigger problems<BR>
>companies will have with the stupid things is that they'll be issuing<BR>
>replacent bills because people will want the originals as souveneirs...<BR>
><BR>
>That power company fixed the problem in a day, and sent out a revised<BR>
>bill, with their vaunted Y2K consultant footing the bill ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Most amusing Y2K glitch I've heard about: France's national weather service,<BR>
on their website, had a satellite picture with the date "January 1, 19100".<BR>
You read that right: 19100. (Makes perfect sense: 99 + 1 = 100, after all.)<BR>
Only 17,100 years off. :)<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: What kind of problems (if any) did the Imperium have preparing for <BR>
the (Imperial) year 1000?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 16:57:40 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
<BR>
>This isn't something that Traveller (even High Guard) has ever done,<BR>
>but what about limiting the volume of ships by Tech Level?  As the<BR>
>TL goes up, the maximum volume of ships also goes up.<BR>
><BR>
>Eris<BR>
<BR>
    I thought it might be the other way round which is already covered by<BR>
the rules. The higher the TL, the smaller the component so you can get away<BR>
with building smaller ships for the same payload. I think earlier TL ships<BR>
are distinctive over their sheer size. (This allows PCs to buy old hulls and<BR>
upgrade them.)<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 23:04:09 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>For many years I held a similar opinion.  That changed when one of my<BR>
>friends converted The Morrow Project (possibly the best post<BR>
>holocaust/para-military game premise with possibly the worst game<BR>
>mechanics) to GURPS.  It was that experience which made me confident<BR>
>that GURPS could handle the gritty realistic setting of CT.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Sorry, but the players of GURPS fit into the same ecological nitch<sp?><BR>
as Magic:  The Gathering.  And, it is one we do not need.  The only thing<BR>
lower than the players of GURPS, & M:tG are the people who write GURPS,<BR>
Steve Jackson, & Pokemon Players.<BR>
    As for Morrow Project, play it using the Phoenix Command Rules.<BR>
<BR>
>Thanks for the input,<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    NP.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 01:00:32 -0500<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 12:33 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
><BR>
> >What are the plans for T5?  Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE<BR>
> >canon?  Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>     Steve Jackson Games, in general, & GURPS specificly, sucks.  I hate<BR>
> GURPS & its simpleminded players.<BR>
<BR>
Just so you don't go away with only LL's rather... over-(anti)enthusiastic<BR>
feelings about SJ and G:T, there are those of us that are pleased with it!<BR>
I've run GURPS games in several backgrounds since it's original boxed set.<BR>
I've also played, collected, and read Traveller in the late '70's.<BR>
Personally I'm pleased with the blending of the 2, for the most part. Some<BR>
of the best suppliments since the Keith Bros. and/or DGW days have come from<BR>
the G:T line, and I expect more are on thier way.<BR>
<BR>
T:5 on the other hand is something of an elusive beast. I liked the bits and<BR>
pieces we seen of it! A lot! However, I don't see Marc making a major effort<BR>
to get it printed (or maybe he is and we just don't know about it!), I hope<BR>
this is because he is taking the time to produce the stellar version of<BR>
Traveller that we are (mostly) all waiting for! In the meantime there is G:T<BR>
and the reprints of CT the Marc IS bringing out. Check his website (address<BR>
eludes me, but I'm sure someone will fill it in.). Hopefully the interest<BR>
generated but G:T and but the CT reprints will make T:5 a more 'valuable'<BR>
product, and help it find a home with the publisher it deserves, someone<BR>
just the opposite of Imperium Games.<BR>
<BR>
Mike (donning asbestos underwear for the inevitable flamewar to come...<BR>
WELCOME TO THE 2000 SEASON! LET THE GAMES BEGIN!)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 00:03:03 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/00 at 12:00 AM,  "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>This isn't something that Traveller (even High Guard) has ever done,<BR>
>>but what about limiting the volume of ships by Tech Level?  As the<BR>
>>TL goes up, the maximum volume of ships also goes up.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Eris<BR>
<BR>
>    I thought it might be the other way round which is already covered by<BR>
>the rules. The higher the TL, the smaller the component so you can get<BR>
>away with building smaller ships for the same payload. I think earlier TL<BR>
>ships are distinctive over their sheer size. (This allows PCs to buy old<BR>
>hulls and upgrade them.)<BR>
<BR>
Well, it *could* go both ways.  The size of components could decline<BR>
and the maximum volume of a ship that can enter jump space could go<BR>
up.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:02:10 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: THUDDD in the 3rd millennium continued<BR>
<BR>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR>
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I really shouldn't have written anything after starting the New Year's =<BR>
Eve celebration.  It has come to my attention that my post may have =<BR>
implied to some that I was dissatisfied with Black ICE. That was NOT my =<BR>
intent.<BR>
<BR>
My proposal was only meant to give us something to work on while Black =<BR>
ICE continued to develop the proposal for the next THUDDD.<BR>
<BR>
I would like to propose that we have two or more THUDDDs moving forward =<BR>
in alternate phases.  Take the following possible schedule for an =<BR>
example:<BR>
         THUDDD 11    THUDDD 12    THUDDD 14   =20<BR>
      Proposal  Jan 1  Jan 16  Feb 1 =20<BR>
      Discussion  Jan 1-7  Jan 16-22  Feb 1-7 =20<BR>
      Initial Design  Jan 8-21  Jan 23-Feb 5  Feb 8-21 =20<BR>
      Initial Web Post  Jan 28  Feb 12  Feb 28 =20<BR>
      Critique  Jan 28-Feb 3  Feb 12-18  Feb 28-Mar 7 =20<BR>
      Redesign  Jan 28-Feb 10  Feb 12-25  Feb 28-Mar 13 =20<BR>
      Second Web Post  Feb 17  Mar 4  Mar 20 =20<BR>
      Voting  Feb 17-Mar 2  Mar 4-17  Mar 20-Apr 2 =20<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Of course, it probably won't work out this neatly; however, we can give =<BR>
it a try.  I'm also not necessarily limiting discussions to just a week. =<BR>
 If there are important aspects still being discussed at the end of the =<BR>
7th day, we could always extend the discussion period.  I'm just giving =<BR>
these figures as a starting point, they are completely adjustable.<BR>
<BR>
If this meets with the approval of all parties involved, perhaps in mid =<BR>
February, we could start working on THUDDD 15. And so on and so forth.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps we could get Legate Legion to act as the Assistant Coordinator =<BR>
for THUDDD 14.  I believe it was he who, suggested a 50,000 dton =<BR>
cruiser.  What do you say Legate?<BR>
<BR>
As always, you feedback is requested.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=3DBMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=<BR>
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<BR>
I really shouldn't have written anything after starting the New =<BR>
Year's Eve=20<BR>
celebration.&nbsp; It has come to my attention that my post may have =<BR>
implied to=20<BR>
some that I was dissatisfied with Black ICE. That was NOT my intent.<BR>
<BR>
My proposal was only meant to give us something to work on while =<BR>
Black ICE=20<BR>
continued to develop the proposal for the next THUDDD.<BR>
<BR>
I would like to propose that we have two or more THUDDDs moving =<BR>
forward in=20<BR>
alternate phases.&nbsp; Take the following possible schedule for an =<BR>
example:<BR>
<TABLE border=3D1>  <TBODY>  <TR>    <TD>&nbsp;=20    <TH>THUDDD 11 &nbsp;=20    <TH>THUDDD 12 &nbsp;=20    <TH>THUDDD 14 &nbsp;=20  <TR>    <TD>Proposal=20    <TD>Jan 1=20    <TD>Jan 16=20    <TD>Feb 1=20  <TR>    <TD>Discussion=20    <TD>Jan 1-7=20    <TD>Jan 16-22=20    <TD>Feb 1-7=20  <TR>    <TD>Initial Design=20    <TD>Jan 8-21=20    <TD>Jan 23-Feb 5=20    <TD>Feb 8-21=20  <TR>    <TD>Initial Web Post=20    <TD>Jan 28=20    <TD>Feb 12=20    <TD>Feb 28=20  <TR>    <TD>Critique=20    <TD>Jan 28-Feb 3=20    <TD>Feb 12-18=20    <TD>Feb 28-Mar 7=20  <TR>    <TD>Redesign=20    <TD>Jan 28-Feb 10=20    <TD>Feb 12-25=20    <TD>Feb 28-Mar 13=20  <TR>    <TD>Second Web Post=20    <TD>Feb 17=20    <TD>Mar 4=20    <TD>Mar 20=20  <TR>    <TD>Voting=20    <TD>Feb 17-Mar 2=20    <TD>Mar 4-17=20    <TD>Mar 20-Apr 2 </TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
Of course, it probably won't work out this neatly; however, we can =give it a=20 try.&nbsp; I'm also not necessarily limiting discussions to just a = week.&nbsp;=20 If there are important aspects still being discussed at the end of the = 7th day,=20 we could always extend the discussion period.&nbsp; I'm just giving = these=20 figures as a starting point, they are completely adjustable.<BR>
If this meets with the approval of all parties involved, perhaps in =mid=20February, we could start working on THUDDD 15. And so on and so =forth.<BR>
Perhaps we could get Legate Legion to act as the Assistant = Coordinator for=20 THUDDD 14.&nbsp; I believe it was he who,&nbsp;suggested a 50,000 dton=20 cruiser.&nbsp; What do you say Legate?<BR>
As always, you feedback is=20requested.<BR>
--<BR>
Jason<BR>
____________________________________________=__<BR>
&nbsp;=20&nbsp; The rules have changed...&nbsp; Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
<A=20href=3D"http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=3DBMM-972">http://www.=alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=3DBMM-972<BR>
Please=20tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited=20you.<BR>
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF==AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF<=/P><BR>
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NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 21:09:24 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>Subject: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
><BR>
>I apologize in advance for bringing up what I'm sure is a tired topic on<BR>
>this list.  I haven't subscribed to TML since shortly after the hotly<BR>
>anticipated release of T4 so I'm a little out of it and the FAQ didn't<BR>
>seem to address my questions:<BR>
><BR>
>What are the plans for T5?  Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE<BR>
>canon?  Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
Supposedly, and according to his Wsite, MWM is working on T5, and trying to<BR>
arrange for a new release.<BR>
<BR>
I sure don't consider it Canon, let alone THE canon, except for GT being<BR>
canon to GT. I disliker the creeping changes washing over the GT setting.<BR>
<BR>
>Being a long time CT player, I was very excited about T4, but my disgust<BR>
>with the released product nearly caused me to put down Traveller for<BR>
>good.<BR>
<BR>
Ditto.<BR>
<BR>
>I recently picked up GURPS Traveller and GURPS Traveller: Far Trader.  I<BR>
>personally think GURPS Traveller is excellent, and Far Trader is<BR>
>possibly one of the best supplements I've seen in my 17 years as a RPG<BR>
>enthusiast.  The GURPS system seems perfect for the diversity of the<BR>
>Traveller universe.  I'm happy to say the my love of Traveller has been<BR>
>completely renewed and I'm reviving a broad reaching campaign for my<BR>
>regular group....and I'm subscribing to this list again.<BR>
<BR>
I don't like GT, as I am not fond of GURPS to begin with (I once was, But I<BR>
grew up...), and I found GT had changed several bits. Like all marines<BR>
having Battlesuit skill. The CGen process, IMO, should have modelled<BR>
Traveller, rather than trying to do "Travelleresque" characters in the<BR>
GURPS method, but that's minor. The GURPS TL scale is a major issue; GT<BR>
forces the GM to either use GURPS tech, Traveller tech (and ride herd over<BR>
his players), or only publsihed materials for GT... Even with the<BR>
converrsions, GTL 12 is far better overall than the Officially Equivalent<BR>
TTL14-15. I Know GURPS fairly well, and found, in my case, Familiarity does<BR>
breen contempt...<BR>
<BR>
>However, I'm wondering what others think of GURPS Traveller.  Is it or<BR>
>is it going to be the "official" traveller?  Do we need T5?<BR>
<BR>
Yes, if traveller is to be more than SJG's salvation, and then forgotten<BR>
when something better comes along or the road gets rough, we need a T5.<BR>
Maybe not this year. But eventually. And I hope it will not draw on GT's<BR>
changes, save maybe GT:Far Trader. The economics needed an overhaul for a<BR>
long time, but I am glad that FT is easy enough to cross over to other<BR>
rules. But it does negate so many of the handwaves and color bits so many<BR>
have used.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:08:56 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
> As Kirsten and I were watching the London celebration (which BTW, was<BR>
> incredibly classy with having Big Ben as the focal point.) we were<BR>
> commenting with all the explosions and searchlights, Blitz survivors must<BR>
> be having a hard night.<BR>
<BR>
I have a question about that particular clock.  How many<BR>
faces does it have on which you can read the time?<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:09:13 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
<Sethkimmel@aol.com> wrote:<BR>
> cybernaut@netzero.net writes:<BR>
><BR>
> << I'm on the u.S. left coast, so we haven't passed the midnight<BR>
>  mark just yet; however, let me remind you that if those<BR>
>  "doomsayers" hadn't been screaming for the fix, there would<BR>
>  likely have been nothing done about it.  Could you imagine<BR>
>  what that would have been like? >><BR>
><BR>
> Perhaps you misunderstood me. I meant the knuckleheads running out to buy<BR>
a<BR>
> years supply of MREs, generators, etc...:-).<BR>
<BR>
Oops, wrong doomsayers.<BR>
<BR>
I did, and I do know what you mean.  Just thinking about<BR>
those guys is enough to make me want to scream.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1624</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1624<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Obscure religions (was Re: GURPS: trav ships and their power requirements)<BR>
Question, not flame bait<BR>
Re: T5 vs. GURPS Traveller<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Maximum Sizes<BR>
Re: [future_wars] OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Question, not flame bait<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Maximum Sizes<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Horses<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Penguins and Reality<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Horses. Horses? I thought these were starships?<BR>
Re: Horses. Horses? I thought these were starships?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:12:51 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Date sent:      	Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:26:41 -0600<BR>
From:           	Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
<BR>
> What are the plans for T5?  Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE<BR>
> canon?  Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
GURPS Traveller is set in an alternate reality where the Rebellion <BR>
never happened. The 'official' universe still exists unchanged. T5 is <BR>
still 'under construction' and from what I've seen of the playtest <BR>
files, it is very good (all the promise of T4 without any of its <BR>
baggage)<BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
<BR>
> However, I'm wondering what others think of GURPS Traveller.  Is it or<BR>
> is it going to be the "official" traveller?  Do we need T5? <BR>
<BR>
T5 will (when ever Marc gets around to releasing it) bring some very <BR>
interesting developments. Marc has promised stand alone multiple <BR>
entry points covering different eras (eg M0, Interstellar Wars, Julian <BR>
Wars, the Psionic Suppressions etc.). Basically, the concept is to<BR>
have the core rules tweeked for each different setting bundled with <BR>
the basic data for the setting.<BR>
<BR>
So IMHO, GT is excellant, but T5 will fill a long empty gap by <BR>
covering other eras and the SAMEP concept is interesting.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Andrew etc<BR>
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:09:39 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
> As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
<BR>
Congratulations!  Next goal to see the actual start of the<BR>
3rd Millennium?<BR>
<BR>
I believe I can safely say that speak for the whole of the TML<BR>
when I say, keep fighting.  This list just wouldn't be the same<BR>
without you!<BR>
<BR>
I'll add you to my prayer list.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 22:12:31 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Obscure religions (was Re: GURPS: trav ships and their power requirements)<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
> Agnostic Autotheist?<BR>
> <BR>
> does that translate to something like...<BR>
> <BR>
> "I believe I am (a) God, but I can't prove my existence"...?<BR>
<BR>
Close. <BR>
<BR>
"Autotheism" (roughly "self-godding") is an idea I've been playing <BR>
with of late; it can mean either "each person has one god" ("weak <BR>
autotheism") or "each person is one god" ("strong autotheism"), and <BR>
it's workable either solipsistically ("I have/am the only god and <BR>
no one else exists/has a soul") or not ("i have/am my god and you <BR>
have/are yours"), though the consequences are wildly different. <BR>
<BR>
I assert my *personal* existence axiomatically (if I don't exist, <BR>
then theological discussion is irrelevant to me), so the agnostic part<BR>
relates to the godhood. My *personal* translation of my non-solipsistic<BR>
medium-strength "agnostic autotheism" statement is thus:<BR>
<BR>
 "Russell may have his own god, or perhaps is a shadow of a god, but <BR>
  that need have no impact on anyone else's soul, and he can't prove<BR>
  any of this in any case."<BR>
<BR>
The nice thing about autotheism is that it pretty much means I can't<BR>
be talked into anyone else's holy war. :)<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:<BR>
 The 3I must have tens of thousands of religions. Many would look  <BR>
 familiar to us; what religions would not? World Builder's Handbook<BR>
 took the (rather cheeky, I thought) step of ranking religions from<BR>
 most to least "primitive", with the total annihilation of any <BR>
 concept of religion at the most "sophisticated" end (i.e. this was <BR>
 the expected result of high population and high TL, IIRC).<BR>
<BR>
 Maybe the natives on a low-tech world believe in forest gods; the<BR>
 PCs might think them naive and charming until the "gods" show up <BR>
 (_Princess Mononoke_, anyone?). The PCs can show that the gods are<BR>
 just very impressive life-forms, but when all is said and done, <BR>
 the gods are still gods as far as the natives are concerned...<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 00:09:32 -0600<BR>
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net><BR>
Subject: Question, not flame bait<BR>
<BR>
Who officially owns the Seeker copyrights?<BR>
<BR>
TV<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:21:28 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Re: T5 vs. GURPS Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:26:41 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>However, I'm wondering what others think of GURPS Traveller.  Is it or<BR>
>is it going to be the "official" traveller?  Do we need T5? <BR>
<BR>
Well, I like GT, but as the author of GURPS Trav Aliens 1, I'm a bit<BR>
biased. I like GT because it has restored a feel of sweeping,<BR>
multi-disciplinary sf to Traveller that some post CT incarnations lost with<BR>
their emphasis on the death, salvage or birth of an interstellar polity.<BR>
That is, now that civilization is stable again, there's a sense that<BR>
economics, xenology, planetology, and so on are on equal terms with<BR>
questions like "how many starships can the Deneb domain field" or "how far<BR>
can I detect a starship with a 200 meter-squared passive array" (although<BR>
these questions are certainly not stinted in GT...)<BR>
<BR>
Will T5 have an audience? Certainly.  People nostalgic for elements of<BR>
previous Traveller rules (e.g., random characters or UPPs) may find these<BR>
in T5, as Marc like most game designers, has certain systems he likes; if<BR>
so, it will probably appeal to them where GURPS might not. There may also<BR>
be interesting new rules (e.g., for alien design).  Likewise, Marc's<BR>
involvement may generate fascinating new canon material, and T5 is likely<BR>
to open up some "new eras" that have yet to be explored, at least in<BR>
printed publications.<BR>
<BR>
More interesting to me is whether the many new additions to canon from<BR>
GURPS Traveller will influence T5. Will the detail on the workings of<BR>
Imperial economics in Far Trader, that of the scout service in First In, or<BR>
those of the major races in the Aliens books) will be taken as "canon" by<BR>
T5, or split off into an alternative universe the way some of Digest Group<BR>
megatrav has been?  Marc is approving the GT material, but that does not<BR>
mean he is obliged to use it within his latest take on his own universe.<BR>
<BR>
However, I believe the old adage "amateurs study tactics, professionals<BR>
study logistics" is likely to govern the success of T5, and determine<BR>
whether it is a flash in the pan or a rival or compliment to GT (at least,<BR>
as long as SJG's license continues to be renewed).  GURPS Trav has the<BR>
serious advantage of being backed by SJG, who have a long reputation for<BR>
paying writers, having decent editors, having a good rep with distributors,<BR>
etc.  This has enabled them to maintain a generally decent quality and<BR>
steady stream of GT products and get them into the stores with, despite<BR>
some potholes, general approval.<BR>
<BR>
Past experience suggests that T5's success will not only depend on the<BR>
quality of the work Marc and the other contributors perform (tactics) and<BR>
what their overall direction is (strategy), but also what kind of<BR>
management, editorial and production team Marc assembles, or, if he<BR>
interests another game company, who they are and how seriously they take<BR>
Traveller itself (logistics). <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:23:52 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>>     As a rule, I hate GURPS Traveller, & think it should be burned along<BR>
>> with Steve Jackson, his game company, the writers, & anyone else<BR>
assoiciated<BR>
>> with it, but the artists, but the Artwork is damn good.<BR>
<BR>
>That's exactly how I feel about T4, MegaTraveller, and New Era.<BR>
>Thanks for the input,<BR>
>Stu<BR>
<BR>
    It's funny how many people don't like MegaTraveller, my *personal*<BR>
opinion is that it's the best of the bunch.<BR>
Classic Traveller: Opened up sci-fi RPGing for me.<BR>
MegaTraveller: Put all the upgrades in one spot and covered the dead ground.<BR>
TNE: Huh? Why ditch such a great setting?<BR>
Traveller 4: A friend bought, all of it. He's wondering if he can get his<BR>
money back somehow.<BR>
GURPS-T: I don't know anything about it, so I can't pontificate on it.<BR>
<BR>
    I would have brought out the TNE setting as a source book, rather than a<BR>
stand-alone everything-earlier-is-now-no-good revision. If MegaTraveller is<BR>
too complicated, use the parts of High Guard you like etc. I view the<BR>
Traveller Industry in a very dim light, five editions is ludicrous and GDW<BR>
seems to have been party to this too often. (Three editions of Twilight 2000<BR>
that did nothing for the game.)<BR>
    Jim.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 21:26:20 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Maximum Sizes<BR>
<BR>
>This isn't something that Traveller (even High Guard) has ever done,<BR>
>but what about limiting the volume of ships by Tech Level?  As the<BR>
>TL goes up, the maximum volume of ships also goes up.<BR>
><BR>
>Eris<BR>
HG didn't limit ships by TL directly; MG limited ships by TL by requiring<BR>
ships of a given size to have a minimum rated computer.<BR>
<BR>
So, under HG, you can't operate a 10000Td (USP Sz=A) ship before you get<BR>
model 4 computers, at TL10<BR>
TL7-8 you max out at 1000Td<BR>
TL 9 you can only get to 5000Td<BR>
TL 10 to 10,0000<BR>
TL 11 ups this to 50,000Td (P)<BR>
TL12 to 100,000Td(R)<BR>
TL13 to 1,000,000Td(Y)<BR>
[GDW, _Book 5: High Guard_, 11th Printing, Pages 23 and 26]<BR>
Actually, shift the max sizes down 1 TL, and subtract 1 Td... heheh... the<BR>
collumn on the computer table shows the minimum size vessel that requires<BR>
no smaller a computer than the one indexed.<BR>
<BR>
The point still stands, however.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:30:42 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: [future_wars] OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 13:27, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Sounds nicely pithy, except that the Roman army did not use<BR>
> >war chariots.  I'd take the whole thing with a very large grain of salt.<BR>
> <BR>
>     This came up on the Space 1889 list. No, the "Romans" did not use war<BR>
> chariots. Yes, they did have a standard axle for their supply wagons.<BR>
>     It shouldn't stop there though, the Romans didn't invent the wagon.<BR>
<BR>
A good next step would be the Mycenean Greeks (and the Egyptians, etc), <BR>
as they did use chariots, and the they were fairly standardised. The <BR>
Myceneans also left nice roads, complete with wheel ruts.<BR>
<BR>
BTW the whole things really suspect seeing as the rail system in NZ is <BR>
also based on the UK one and uses a different (smaller) gauge.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 00:40:49 -0600<BR>
From: "Clint Williams" <aremis@amaonline.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion wrote<BR>
<BR>
>The only thing<BR>
>lower than the players of GURPS, & M:tG are the people who write GURPS,<BR>
>Steve Jackson, & Pokemon Players.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Excuse me?  You know I really don't care what you say of me but my nephew is<BR>
a Pokemon player & I do not care for him being insulted in such a manner.<BR>
I had to take him to the Pokemon Movie.  Lot's of annoying kids?  You bet.<BR>
Do I think of them as lower life form?  Not at all.  I suffered way too much<BR>
as a gaming geek at a small school to point any fingers at fellow gamers no<BR>
matter how much they bother me.  Clint.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 00:40:18 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Question, not flame bait<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/00 at 12:36 AM,  "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Who officially owns the Seeker copyrights?<BR>
<BR>
<groan!> Is *every* discussion of the past year going to be<BR>
recapitulated on the first day of the new year?  <g><BR>
<BR>
However, out of all the times that question was asked last year it was<BR>
*never* actually answered.  Every time it came up it degenerated<BR>
into a Roger <spit>anger discussion. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 01:45:33 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> What are the plans for T5?<BR>
<BR>
Marc Miller's been working on it for some time now. Don't know how it's<BR>
going to fit in.<BR>
<BR>
>Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE canon?<BR>
<BR>
In my opinion, yes. However, your own mileage may vary. I'm an outspoken<BR>
supporter of what is *currently* being published, in other words, what is<BR>
currently easily available and legally obtainable.<BR>
<BR>
>Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
I do. The materials which I have gotten my hands on to date (most of the<BR>
line) are some of the best written. The artwork, for the most part, is also<BR>
fantastic.<BR>
<BR>
> Being a long time CT player, I was very excited about T4, but my<BR>
> disgust with the released product nearly caused me to put down<BR>
> Traveller for good.<BR>
<BR>
Understandable. With the exception of most of the art and design, though,<BR>
the core rulebook wasn't all that bad. What really soured me on it was the<BR>
heavy reliance on Chris Foss artwork. I really despise his style. give me<BR>
Grant and DeGraff any day of the week.<BR>
<BR>
> However, I'm wondering what others think of GURPS Traveller.  Is it<BR>
> or is it going to be the "official" traveller?  Do we need T5?<BR>
<BR>
I wouldn't worry about it too much. It *is* the current official Traveller,<BR>
at least by default. That's exactly what a number of people on the list in<BR>
the old days said would happen. Keep in mind that Traveller could do a hell<BR>
of a lot worse than have its materials written by good authors and to have<BR>
someone with a love of Traveller overseeing it all.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:01:33 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Maximum Sizes<BR>
<BR>
"William F. Hostman" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >This isn't something that Traveller (even High Guard) has ever done,<BR>
> >but what about limiting the volume of ships by Tech Level?  As the<BR>
> >TL goes up, the maximum volume of ships also goes up.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Eris<BR>
> HG didn't limit ships by TL directly; MG limited ships by TL by requiring<BR>
> ships of a given size to have a minimum rated computer.<BR>
> <BR>
> So, under HG, you can't operate a 10000Td (USP Sz=A) ship before you get<BR>
> model 4 computers, at TL10<BR>
<BR>
<<snips HG table>><BR>
<BR>
Meanwhile, FF&S2 lists no direct TL-related limits to ship size<BR>
(although Table 159: Basic Hull Size lists hulls no larger than<BR>
1,000,000 dtons).  However, one limiting factor that I've found is that<BR>
ships become both better and cheaper at higher TLs.  A 60,000 dton<BR>
cruiser at TL-15 is not only more capable (faster, better weaponry,<BR>
better armored, etc.) than its TL-13 counterpart, but less expensive as<BR>
well.  Thus, budgetary restrictions help limit the size of TL-11+<BR>
(thruster-capable) ships.  Further, juggling size, endurance, and crew<BR>
size seems harder at lower TLs, as ships get larger, especially for<BR>
non-thruster-equipped ships (TL-10 or lower).<BR>
<BR>
Were I to implement size limits based on TL, I probably would limit ship<BR>
sizes based on the _highest_ TL available in the given polity.  In other<BR>
words, a M:1100 naval architect could use the available TL-15 knowledge<BR>
to build larger ships, with TL-12 materials and equipment, than could a<BR>
M:0 naval architect (with only a TL-12 knowledge base).  To use an<BR>
analogy, I would expect a civil engineer in CE 2000 (TL-8 or so) to be<BR>
able to design a larger, more efficient wooden bridge than could a civil<BR>
engineer with only the knowledge base available at TL-1.  Both could<BR>
build wooden bridges, but the TL-8 engineer could use TL-1 materials<BR>
more effectively.<BR>
<BR>
As always, YMMV.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:55:34 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On 1 Jan 00, at 22:33, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
> <BR>
> >What are the plans for T5?  Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE<BR>
> >canon?  Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
>     Steve Jackson Games, in general, & GURPS specificly, sucks.  I hate<BR>
> GURPS & its simpleminded players.  I hate their arrogance, I hate their<BR>
> lack of gender, I hate their high pitched voices, but, I love the way they<BR>
> run when you put a real game, like CT, on the table.<BR>
<BR>
Man that's a good button. Can I push it too?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:55:34 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 1:00, Michael Peters wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Mike (donning asbestos underwear for the inevitable flamewar to come...<BR>
> WELCOME TO THE 2000 SEASON! LET THE GAMES BEGIN!)<BR>
<BR>
Yep. This'd be Game Two. Game One (The Great Drop-Tank War) is already <BR>
off to a good start after only one day. <BR>
<BR>
Things are looking good, and it looks like the TML could provide <BR>
excellent entertainment (for which I'm glad because rec.games.frp.misc <BR>
has been quite boring recently).<BR>
<BR>
Here's to a hot year!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:55:34 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On 1 Jan 00, at 23:40, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Great!  I agree GT and many of its supplements are *really* very<BR>
> good.  Some folks have objections about some aspects of GURPS and<BR>
> the GT setting, but that shouldn't get in the way of anyone else<BR>
> enjoying the game.<BR>
<BR>
And here we have the first entrant for team two - and a heretic at that!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:55:34 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On 1 Jan 00, at 23:04, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >For many years I held a similar opinion.  That changed when one of my<BR>
> >friends converted The Morrow Project (possibly the best post<BR>
> >holocaust/para-military game premise with possibly the worst game<BR>
> >mechanics) to GURPS.  It was that experience which made me confident that<BR>
> >GURPS could handle the gritty realistic setting of CT.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
>     Sorry, but the players of GURPS fit into the same ecological<BR>
>     nitch<sp?><BR>
> as Magic:  The Gathering.  And, it is one we do not need.  The only thing<BR>
> lower than the players of GURPS, & M:tG are the people who write GURPS,<BR>
> Steve Jackson, & Pokemon Players.<BR>
>     As for Morrow Project, play it using the Phoenix Command Rules.<BR>
<BR>
I've never used them, but they look like an exceptionally painful form <BR>
of slow torture. Use Aftermath - it's only slow torture :)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:55:34 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
<BR>
On 1 Jan 00, at 23:24, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 01/01/00 at 11:22 PM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >ObTrav:<BR>
> <BR>
> >1.  IMTU, Imperial Navy vessels in the Spinward Marches are often TL-12<BR>
> >or TL-13, simply because the Marches lack the technological base to<BR>
> >maintain a fleet of uniformly TL-15 ships.<BR>
> <BR>
> >2.  Naval vessels may also be limited in size, based on the availability<BR>
> >of repair facilities large enough to handle them.  Large repair<BR>
> >facilities may become major targets in wartime. (Witness the lengths to<BR>
> >which the British went to deny the drydocks at St. Naizaire to the Nazis<BR>
> >[a commando raid, complete with an explosive-laden ship ramming the<BR>
> >docks].  This was because St. Nazaire was one of the few facilities on<BR>
> >the French Atlantic coast capable of handling the German battleship<BR>
> >TIRPITZ.)<BR>
> <BR>
> This isn't something that Traveller (even High Guard) has ever done,<BR>
> but what about limiting the volume of ships by Tech Level?  As the<BR>
> TL goes up, the maximum volume of ships also goes up. <BR>
<BR>
IIRC HG does have an effective size by TL limit. It takes a certain <BR>
size of computer to run a large ship, and computers are limited by TL.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:58:47 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>What are the plans for T5? <BR>
<BR>
Darned if I know, but maybe there's something on Marc's website.<BR>
<BR>
> Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE canon?<BR>
<BR>
No. GURPS Traveller is simply Traveller translated into GURPS. SJ Games<BR>
has done cross-game licensing before with GURPS versions of Vampire: The<BR>
Masquerade and at least one of its spinoffs.<BR>
<BR>
>  Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
I think it's wonderful. It has rekindled my interest in Traveller, <BR>
which I had given up on as a "dead" system. I never saw T4... in <BR>
fact, I first heard about T4 from this mailing list, to which I<BR>
subscribed after I started doing things with GURPS Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
>I recently picked up GURPS Traveller and GURPS Traveller: Far Trader.  I<BR>
>personally think GURPS Traveller is excellent, and Far Trader is<BR>
>possibly one of the best supplements I've seen in my 17 years as a RPG<BR>
>enthusiast.  The GURPS system seems perfect for the diversity of the<BR>
>Traveller universe.  I'm happy to say the my love of Traveller has been<BR>
>completely renewed and I'm reviving a broad reaching campaign for my<BR>
>regular group....and I'm subscribing to this list again.<BR>
<BR>
Sounds a little like my experience with GURPS Traveller (GT). I've been<BR>
a Traveller fan since the days of the Little Black Books (circa 1982 for<BR>
me), and a GURPS fan since about 1989. I didn't much care for MegaTraveller,<BR>
but I thought TNE was okay. G:T takes a game system I like and combines it<BR>
with a game universe that I always enjoyed.<BR>
<BR>
>However, I'm wondering what others think of GURPS Traveller.  Is it or<BR>
>is it going to be the "official" traveller?  Do we need T5? <BR>
<BR>
But it is still not the canonical Traveller -- it's a version of Traveller<BR>
made and marketed for the existing GURPS fans. Now, if it brings existing<BR>
Traveller fans into the GURPS fold, that's icing on the cake.<BR>
<BR>
In the meantime, if Marc wants to do a T5 and can find someone to publish<BR>
and distribute it, then it will be the "official" Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
>Again, I'm sorry if this topic has been hashed over a zillion times. <BR>
>I'm just looking to get up to speed a little.  So feel free just respond<BR>
>directly to me if this is not an interesting topic here anymore (or if<BR>
>it will cause too much needless bickering).<BR>
<BR>
Well, we've already had one person reply with a troll that's so obvious it's<BR>
not worth wasting the bandwidth to reply to... :)   Putting him aside, there<BR>
are may G:T fans, and most non-GURPS fans are at least willing to admit that<BR>
G:T has given Traveller a shot in the arm, so to speak, rekindling its<BR>
popularity. Perhaps even enough to warrant an official T5.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:06:42 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Penguins and Reality<BR>
<BR>
    Its strange how real life tends to intrude on harmless humour, the<BR>
following is absolutely true.<BR>
    The Fairy Penguin rookerie which is the site of the nightly penguin<BR>
parade was ground zero for an oil spill today in Victoria, Australia.<BR>
Already 45 adult birds from the small rookerie have been recovered and are<BR>
being decontaminated but their chicks are starving in their nests, the cause<BR>
of the spill has not been identified yet.<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:06:31 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/00 at 01:04 AM,  "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> Great!  I agree GT and many of its supplements are *really* very<BR>
>> good.  Some folks have objections about some aspects of GURPS and<BR>
>> the GT setting, but that shouldn't get in the way of anyone else<BR>
>> enjoying the game.<BR>
<BR>
>And here we have the first entrant for team two - and a heretic at that!<BR>
<BR>
Ah, heck, Rupert!  That was my attempt at forestalling the seemingly<BR>
inevitable.  <g> At least, I didn't go into just what *my*<BR>
objections were. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
    the peacemaker! <wink><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:06:31 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Horses. Horses? I thought these were starships?<BR>
<BR>
The well-known Heretic, Eris, wrote:<BR>
> This isn't something that Traveller (even High Guard) has ever done,<BR>
> but what about limiting the volume of ships by Tech Level?  As the<BR>
> TL goes up, the maximum volume of ships also goes up.<BR>
<BR>
That's a common misconception among you non-believers. The more devout <BR>
scholars of the good Book 5 (such as the ct-starships folks) will be <BR>
glad to point out that while ship size is not directly limited by TL, <BR>
ships sizes are limited by computer model, and computer model by TL. <BR>
Unfortunately, scholars are in some debate as to the interpretation of <BR>
the tables, dueto an ambiguity regarding the intermediate ship sizes.<BR>
<BR>
An abbreviated extract from High Guard, pp. 23 and 26:<BR>
<BR>
TL       Max Computer     "Ship requiring this computer as a minumum"<BR>
5-6      1                6 (600-699 dTons)<BR>
7-8      2                A (1000-1999 dTons)<BR>
9        3                D (4000-4999 dTons)<BR>
A        4                K (10000-19999 dTons)<BR>
B        5                P (50000-74999 dTons)<BR>
C        6                R (100000-199999 dTons)<BR>
D        7                Y (1000000-? dTons)  <BR>
<BR>
However, certain CT canon sources describe violators (A:5, Trillion <BR>
Credit Squadron, mentions multi-million ton generation ships built at <BR>
pre-jump TLs). The True Church accepts these as Miracles, which are <BR>
not to be constructed according to High Guard rules, but merely <BR>
handwaved into existence. <BR>
<BR>
I know, I know, you don't worship at that altar. :)<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:17:08 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Horses. Horses? I thought these were starships?<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/00 at 01:11 AM,  Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>I know, I know, you don't worship at that altar. :)<BR>
<BR>
Dang straight! ;-p<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I think most technology should have limits, *directly*<BR>
linked to TL.  <BR>
<BR>
As for HG, and its direct heirs QDSS, SSDS, and GT ship design, they<BR>
just don't provide enough of the gearheadedness I want.  Of course,<BR>
YMMV. <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1624<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1625</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1625<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: High Guard<BR>
RE: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1619<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1619<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1619<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1611<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:30:32 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: High Guard<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
>Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
><BR>
>>This isn't something that Traveller (even High Guard) has ever done,<BR>
...<BR>
>    I thought it might be the other way round which is already covered by<BR>
>the rules. The higher the TL, the smaller the component so you can get away<BR>
>with building smaller ships for the same payload. I think earlier TL ships<BR>
...<BR>
        High Guard effectively does this, inasmuch as the most important<BR>
system in most warships (the power plant) does get smaller (& cheaper) at<BR>
higher TL's, for a given output. Additionally, most other payload elements<BR>
have superior performance for their fixed size as TL increases. Needless<BR>
to say there are granularity issues, but the alternative to that is huge<BR>
detail (Striker, GURPS: Vehicles) that may be counter-productive.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:30:47 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: RE: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
<BR>
>From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
>Subject: RE: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
...<BR>
>Speaking of which, did any magazine other than White Dwarf ("The<BR>
>Travellers") run a lengthy Traveller-inspired cartoon strip?  I vaguely<BR>
>recall something called Space Trader Vic from another magazine (not Dragon<BR>
<BR>
  Wasn't that a sequence of Dragons' "Finieous Fingers" (sp.) ?<BR>
<BR>
>Thinking back to Adventure Gaming (?), that magazine ran a few interesting<BR>
<BR>
  DEC/81 was good :)<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>than What I Can" not to mention his writing up X-Wings, Tie Fighters and<BR>
>Vipers for the Imperium background.<BR>
<BR>
  I thought that was in an issue of "Different Worlds"?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:43:11 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Glenn St-Germain wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Well, we've already had one person reply with a troll that's so obvious it's<BR>
> not worth wasting the bandwidth to reply to... :)   Putting him aside, there<BR>
> are may G:T fans, and most non-GURPS fans are at least willing to admit that<BR>
> G:T has given Traveller a shot in the arm, so to speak, rekindling its<BR>
> popularity. Perhaps even enough to warrant an official T5.<BR>
<BR>
If _nothing_ else, GT has provided Marc Miller with useful capital, so<BR>
that he can make T5 everything that T4 was _meant_ to be.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:44:08 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Bailey wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I apologize in advance for bringing up what I'm sure is a tired topic on<BR>
> this list.  I haven't subscribed to TML since shortly after the hotly<BR>
> anticipated release of T4 so I'm a little out of it and the FAQ didn't<BR>
> seem to address my questions:<BR>
> <BR>
> What are the plans for T5?  Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE<BR>
> canon?  Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
I'm not especially fond of the GURPS mechanics, but that's just a<BR>
personal preference.  I am impressed by many of the GT supplements.<BR>
<BR>
One thing that I've noticed as a GT playtest discussion board<BR>
participant (which, in itself, is a singular achievement on the part of<BR>
SJG [semi-open playtesting, that is]) is that there are GT playtesters<BR>
who try to pull GT toward GURPS Space/GURPS Vehicles, and there are<BR>
others who try to pull GT toward CT/MT/TNE/T4.  I am, of course, firmly<BR>
in the second camp, and I always try to provide CT/T4 cites for my<BR>
suggestions.<BR>
<BR>
GURPS and Traveller are not seamlessly compatible, but SJG is trying<BR>
very hard to ensure that GT maintains the "look and feel" of Traveller<BR>
as closely as is possible within the GURPS rules framework.  GT (1st<BR>
edition) spends at least eleven pages dealing with conversions from<BR>
previous editions of Traveller to GURPS, to the point that many<BR>
technologies GURPS assumes at a given TL are either invalidated (because<BR>
they aren't in Traveller) or accelerated (because they appear earlier in<BR>
Traveller).<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Being a long time CT player, I was very excited about T4, but my disgust<BR>
> with the released product nearly caused me to put down Traveller for<BR>
> good.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I like a couple of things about T4, as compared with CT:<BR>
<BR>
1.  The fact that there are now specified game mechanics for handling<BR>
tasks of varying difficulty.  Our referee often has us make<BR>
ever-increasing rolls, until we fail the roll.  The higher the<BR>
difficulty rating at which you last succeeded, the better the results.<BR>
<BR>
2.  Once one has a set of errata, FF&S2 is tres cool!<BR>
<BR>
The fact that one _needs_ extensive errata for most T4 products is, of<BR>
course, a pain in the fourth point of contact.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> However, I'm wondering what others think of GURPS Traveller.  Is it or<BR>
> is it going to be the "official" traveller?  Do we need T5?<BR>
<BR>
GT will certainly influence Traveller (for instance, T5 should take into<BR>
account [though not necessarily copy] the excellent trade rules in GT:<BR>
Far Trader).  However, while I've purchased several GT products (and<BR>
likely will purchase more), I'm still holding out for T5.  If I<BR>
preferred the MacOS to Windows (or vice versa), I would prefer a machine<BR>
optimized for my preferred OS, rather than running an emulator. <BR>
However, just as a MacOS user might want to run a PC emulator, in order<BR>
to run software that's only available for Wintel systems, so I am<BR>
willing to mine GT supplements for information, without giving up my<BR>
preference for real Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:53:44 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE canon?<BR>
> <BR>
> In my opinion, yes. However, your own mileage may vary. I'm an outspoken<BR>
> supporter of what is *currently* being published, in other words, what is<BR>
> currently easily available and legally obtainable.<BR>
<BR>
I went looking for my copy of the T4 rule book (which I was surprised to<BR>
find I hadn't actually thrown out).  It does recognize the Rebellion and<BR>
the Virus on pages 8 and 9.  So I guess T5 (if it ever comes out) will<BR>
as well *sigh*.<BR>
<BR>
Since SJG is supporting a version of the Traveller News Service<BR>
(http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/news.html), I guess it will<BR>
forever be a "rogue" timeline unless T5 never materializes.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> With the exception of most of the art and design, though,<BR>
> the core rulebook [T4] wasn't all that bad. What really soured me on it was the<BR>
> heavy reliance on Chris Foss artwork. I really despise his style.<BR>
<BR>
That and 22 pages of errata!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I wouldn't worry about it too much. It [GURPS] *is* the current official Traveller,<BR>
> at least by default. That's exactly what a number of people on the list in<BR>
> the old days said would happen.<BR>
<BR>
Well I'm all for it...but I don't see consensus on the horizon.  Is<BR>
there talk of a list split ala XBOAT (not that I would support that)?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:54:35 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
>Subject: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
...<BR>
>What are the plans for T5?  Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE<BR>
>canon?  Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
...<BR>
>However, I'm wondering what others think of GURPS Traveller.  Is it or<BR>
>is it going to be the "official" traveller?  Do we need T5? <BR>
<BR>
  T5 should provide material more suitable for the CT/MT people (and<BR>
there are a surprising number of us^h^h them), and a second publisher<BR>
of Traveller material should be an unmitigatedly good thing so long as<BR>
they can both make a living - at which point it needs to indicated that<BR>
G:T is creating a larger market, which T5 would likely be unable to do <BR>
without the ad budget of a major player.<BR>
<BR>
  That is, I'd like to have T5 and G:T both; I'm certainly willing to<BR>
buy their products.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:54:48 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Subject: Re: [future_wars] OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
...<BR>
>A good next step would be the Mycenean Greeks (and the Egyptians, etc), <BR>
>as they did use chariots, and the they were fairly standardised. The <BR>
<BR>
  They should also have been _very_ lightweight, and would not even<BR>
have been moved loaded on rutted roads.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:55:54 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>>     Steve Jackson Games, in general, & GURPS specificly, sucks.  I hate<BR>
>> GURPS & its simpleminded players.  I hate their arrogance, I hate their<BR>
>> lack of gender, I hate their high pitched voices, but, I love the way they<BR>
>> run when you put a real game, like CT, on the table.<BR>
><BR>
>Man that's a good button. Can I push it too?<BR>
<BR>
  If you do, see if you can't reconnect some higher brain functions, too.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:59:57 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
>>     Steve Jackson Games, in general, & GURPS specificly, sucks.  I hate<BR>
>> GURPS & its simpleminded players.  I hate their arrogance, I hate their<BR>
>> lack of gender, I hate their high pitched voices, but, I love the way they<BR>
>> run when you put a real game, like CT, on the table.<BR>
><BR>
>Man that's a good button. Can I push it too?<BR>
<BR>
I as well will push that button with an additional acusatory statement from<BR>
my experiences: GURPS players tend to play the same character OVER AND<BR>
OVER, in only slight variations by setting...<BR>
That is why I love the Random CGen of CT/MT... You get what you rolled...<BR>
now role-play it!<BR>
<BR>
This very dichotomy is what spoiled me on GURPS in the first place...<BR>
People fall into ruts when allowed to do so, and non-random CGen allows<BR>
them to do so.<BR>
<BR>
Then again, I'm still miffed about Car Wars ceasing development, too. And<BR>
about GURPS Autoduel as the "Roleplaying Rules for Car Wars"... It wasn't<BR>
compatable, never would be, and now isn't even convertable back and forth<BR>
with the ccoming of 2nd ed GA. Heck, they'd a good set of RP adjustments in<BR>
Autoduel Champions... but SJG was not listening to the fans then. I doubt<BR>
they've learned since.<BR>
<BR>
Jim Writes<BR>
>    It's funny how many people don't like MegaTraveller, my *personal*<BR>
>opinion is that it's the best of the bunch.<BR>
>Classic Traveller: Opened up sci-fi RPGing for me.<BR>
>MegaTraveller: Put all the upgrades in one spot and covered the dead ground.<BR>
>TNE: Huh? Why ditch such a great setting?<BR>
and, why throw out a really good set of rules for one that is broken?<BR>
<BR>
>Traveller 4: A friend bought, all of it. He's wondering if he can get his<BR>
>money back somehow.<BR>
<BR>
I bought some of it. The only thing about T4 I really liked was the<BR>
Psionics Rules. The rest was a waste of my time, money and carrying<BR>
capacity, save that MWM kept Traveller alive with it. I'd rather have seen<BR>
an MT reprint<BR>
<BR>
>GURPS-T: I don't know anything about it, so I can't pontificate on it.<BR>
<BR>
I own a copy of GT and a copy of GT:FT. I will not buy more GT materials.<BR>
They are, IMHO, not Traveller, and what I've read (GT:SM, GT:BTC) gives me<BR>
no desire to do any further 1st hand buisiness with SJG. I Might, if the<BR>
material is well enough written, pick up some of the materials for fill<BR>
text, but the odds are getting worse with every GT product I've looked at.<BR>
<BR>
See above and other posts. However, the continuing success of GT is both<BR>
hope for the future and a disincentive to publish T5 as a non-GURPS<BR>
compatable ruleset....<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seemans writes<BR>
>I wouldn't worry about it too much. It *is* the current official Traveller,<BR>
>at least by default. That's exactly what a number of people on the list in<BR>
<BR>
Might I remind my esteemed colleagues of one clause in the GT liscence that<BR>
MWM Made public: "Non-authoritative".<BR>
<BR>
In short, GT stands alone, can borrow from, but more than likely is not to<BR>
be reflected anywhere but GT. It is its own canon, by contract. It borrows<BR>
from CT and MT, but it is specifically liscenced as not being an<BR>
authoritative source, so I hope MWM sticks with that, but takes a hint from<BR>
GT:FT and gets a decent set of trade and commerce mechanics in T5.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 03:04:27 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
<BR>
<< As a rule, I hate GURPS Traveller, & think it should be burned along<BR>
 with Steve Jackson, his game company, the writers, & anyone else assoiciated<BR>
 with it,  >><BR>
<BR>
If I were thinner skinned, I could take offense. <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 00:12:32 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
...<BR>
>    Steve Jackson Games, in general, & GURPS specificly, sucks.  I hate<BR>
>GURPS & its simpleminded players.  I hate their arrogance, I hate their lack<BR>
>of gender, I hate their high pitched voices, but, I love the way they run<BR>
>when you put a real game, like CT, on the table.<BR>
<BR>
  Dare one ask if you actually have _reasons_ for any of the above?<BR>
EG: "I'm annoyed by the sort of fuckwit that has a dozen-plus line<BR>
sig because, being on digest-mode, I can't just delete their crap".<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>    As a rule, I hate GURPS Traveller, & think it should be burned along<BR>
>with Steve Jackson, his game company, the writers, & anyone else assoiciated<BR>
>with it, but the artists, but the Artwork is damn good.<BR>
><BR>
>Legate Legion<BR>
>ICQ # 8973001<BR>
>legate@futureone.com<BR>
><BR>
>"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
>the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
>mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
>French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
><BR>
>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
><BR>
>Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
>killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 03:17:31 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1619<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-01-01 16:10:00 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< So what's the slang term for this period?  Like, "the twenties" is good for<BR>
 either 1920-29 or 2020-29, and "the nineties" applicable for 1990-99 or<BR>
 2090-99... but what did people call 1900-1909? >><BR>
<BR>
Nothing so far as I know. I think the fad for naming decades is a later <BR>
phenomonon.<BR>
<BR>
I propose 'turn of the century" for those of you who cannot ignore the whole <BR>
thing.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 03:17:31 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1619<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-01-01 16:10:00 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< Subject: [future_wars] OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
 <BR>
 I got this off of another mailing list. I'm not certain that it's true>><BR>
<BR>
I'm pretty sure it isn't -- ask the nearest model railroader for a discussion <BR>
of "standard guage" and when it came into effect. <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 02:24:28 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
"William F. Hostman" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I as well will push that button with an additional acusatory statement from<BR>
> my experiences: GURPS players tend to play the same character OVER AND<BR>
> OVER, in only slight variations by setting...<BR>
> That is why I love the Random CGen of CT/MT... You get what you rolled...<BR>
> now role-play it!<BR>
> <BR>
> This very dichotomy is what spoiled me on GURPS in the first place...<BR>
> People fall into ruts when allowed to do so, and non-random CGen allows<BR>
> them to do so.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not a GURPS fanatic, and I'm not prepared to go to the mat for it. <BR>
But I will say that the syndrome you describe: players playing the same<BR>
character again and again is quite simply the product of bad players,<BR>
not a bad system.  I agree that GURPS does not actively discourage that<BR>
behavior.  However, there is one thing a GM can do to completely<BR>
eliminate it: hand out characters!<BR>
<BR>
I find that Traveller is really only playable in a campaign mode as a<BR>
series of one shot (or at least short) adventures that span the Imperium<BR>
and take place up and down the timeline.  This means new characters for<BR>
each adventure, for the most part, and gives the GM a tool to really<BR>
allow players to stretch themselves.  I find randomly handing out the<BR>
characters to be preferred over letting them choose.<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 02:31:21 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1619<BR>
<BR>
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In a message dated 00-01-01 16:10:00 EST, you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> << So what's the slang term for this period?  Like, "the twenties" is good for<BR>
>  either 1920-29 or 2020-29, and "the nineties" applicable for 1990-99 or<BR>
>  2090-99... but what did people call 1900-1909? >><BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
IMH(but not to serious)O, this decade should be the "oughts" with this<BR>
year being "double ought".<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 03:41:35 -0500<BR>
From: "Craig Lytton" <polecat@ezwv.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
I have thought of having players randomly generate their characters with<BR>
Mercenary, High Guard, ect then convert them to  GURPS.  Rather than using<BR>
the conversion method in the GURPS Traveller book, I thought of using the<BR>
randomly generated skills to determine where the player can spend points.  I<BR>
like the Mercenary/High Guard system because it gives you ideas of what sort<BR>
of things your character did while in the service, plus I like the<BR>
decorations and specialty schools.<BR>
<BR>
Craig<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 3:24 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> "William F. Hostman" wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I as well will push that button with an additional acusatory statement<BR>
from<BR>
> > my experiences: GURPS players tend to play the same character OVER AND<BR>
> > OVER, in only slight variations by setting...<BR>
> > That is why I love the Random CGen of CT/MT... You get what you<BR>
rolled...<BR>
> > now role-play it!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > This very dichotomy is what spoiled me on GURPS in the first place...<BR>
> > People fall into ruts when allowed to do so, and non-random CGen allows<BR>
> > them to do so.<BR>
><BR>
> I'm not a GURPS fanatic, and I'm not prepared to go to the mat for it.<BR>
> But I will say that the syndrome you describe: players playing the same<BR>
> character again and again is quite simply the product of bad players,<BR>
> not a bad system.  I agree that GURPS does not actively discourage that<BR>
> behavior.  However, there is one thing a GM can do to completely<BR>
> eliminate it: hand out characters!<BR>
><BR>
> I find that Traveller is really only playable in a campaign mode as a<BR>
> series of one shot (or at least short) adventures that span the Imperium<BR>
> and take place up and down the timeline.  This means new characters for<BR>
> each adventure, for the most part, and gives the GM a tool to really<BR>
> allow players to stretch themselves.  I find randomly handing out the<BR>
> characters to be preferred over letting them choose.<BR>
><BR>
> Stu<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 03:34:12 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On 1 Jan 00, at 22:33, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
> <BR>
> >What are the plans for T5?  Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE<BR>
> >canon?  Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
>     Steve Jackson Games, in general, & GURPS specificly, sucks.  I hate<BR>
> GURPS & its simpleminded players.  I hate their arrogance, I hate their<BR>
> lack of gender, I hate their high pitched voices, but, I love the way they<BR>
> run when you put a real game, like CT, on the table.<BR>
<BR>
snip<BR>
<BR>
>The only thing<BR>
>lower than the players of GURPS, & M:tG are the people who write GURPS,<BR>
>Steve Jackson, & Pokemon Players.<BR>
<BR>
 Then you obviously are not one of those who were introduced to this hobby of <BR>
ours by the original Metagaming ads for OGRE, as I was; You've never run a <BR>
public gaming club with the mission of de-munchkinizing the youngsters, as I <BR>
have; and you've never met Kevin Simbieda (sp?) of Palladium Games, which I <BR>
haven't (thankfully) or Ken Whitman, which I have.<BR>
 There are evils, pomps, and ass-heads in this industry, but SJ is not one of <BR>
them. A fiery temper certainly, especially when crossed by a black-hat who <BR>
used to be a white-hat (reference: the Secret Service and Stewart Wieck of <BR>
White Wolf).<BR>
<BR>
 As for GURPS players, the one "flaw" they share with M:tG and Pokemon <BR>
players is their unbridled enthusiasm about the game they play. I envy (all <BR>
of) them that, since a lot of mine's been worn away in the last twenty-plus <BR>
years of gaming, but I do not hate them for it.<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 02:43:47 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
Craig Lytton wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I like the Mercenary/High Guard system because it gives you ideas of what sort<BR>
> of things your character did while in the service, plus I like the<BR>
> decorations and specialty schools.<BR>
<BR>
I agree that specialty schools are great. Has anyone picked up GT: Star<BR>
Mercs?  Pros and Cons?<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 00:42:17 -0800<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:12:51 +1300, "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"<BR>
<a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>T5 will (when ever Marc gets around to releasing it) bring some very <BR>
>interesting developments. Marc has promised stand alone multiple <BR>
>entry points covering different eras (eg M0, Interstellar Wars, Julian <BR>
>Wars, the Psionic Suppressions etc.). Basically, the concept is to<BR>
>have the core rules tweeked for each different setting bundled with <BR>
>the basic data for the setting.<BR>
<BR>
And if he finds a publisher more interested in quality product than<BR>
Imperium Games. <spit!><BR>
<BR>
If he does, this could be a pretty good business model.  A certain other<BR>
science-fiction (for some very soft values of "SF") RPG by Last Unicorn<BR>
Games has been released this way.  Before that, there was this little game<BR>
called VAMPIRE put out by a company named White Wolf, you might have heard<BR>
of it...<BR>
<BR>
There will be some people (like me) who are annoyed at buying the same<BR>
rules over and over, but the value of a standalone one-book game in today's<BR>
marketplace cannot be overstated.  The days of the Boxed Set are over.<BR>
<BR>
Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to find a DO NOT FEED OR TEASE THE<BR>
ANIMALS sign for LL's cage.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair   "The Jigglypuff's trilling seems to have a <BR>
kellys@efn.org    tranquilizing effect on the human nervous system.<BR>
                  Fortunately, I am... immune..."<BR>
                            -- Mr. Spock, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:02:04 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1611<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 6:22 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1611<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On 1 Jan 00, at 8:06, Glenn St-Germain wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > And Rupert will go down in TML history as having the first post of the<BR>
> > Year 2000. Congratulations, and a happy new year to you (and everyone<BR>
> > else) as well. :)<BR>
><BR>
> And no life :(<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Awwww man... I wasn't going to say anything about that Rupert, even though I<BR>
thought it ;^)<BR>
<BR>
As for myself... the missus and I have only just returned from the New Year<BR>
Celebrations... <phew><BR>
<BR>
Hope you actually had a good one Rupert, and everyone else too.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 03:44:14 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
From: William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I as well will push that button with an additional acusatory statement<BR>
> from my experiences: GURPS players tend to play the same<BR>
> character OVER AND OVER, in only slight variations by setting...<BR>
> That is why I love the Random CGen of CT/MT... You get what you<BR>
> rolled... now role-play it!<BR>
<BR>
If there's one thing which I've learned in my years as a GM, it's the simple<BR>
fact that players will play the sorts of characters which they like to play.<BR>
It doesn't matter *what* system that they're playing under. I'll further say<BR>
that CT and MT really don't really do too much to curb this. There are<BR>
plenty of people out there who will play specific CT / MT classes over and<BR>
over again.<BR>
<BR>
There's also nothing really wrong with it. The point is, after all, for<BR>
everybody involved in playing to have a good time.<BR>
<BR>
> This very dichotomy is what spoiled me on GURPS in the first<BR>
> place... People fall into ruts when allowed to do so, and non-random<BR>
> CGen allows them to do so.<BR>
<BR>
Keep in mind that this is purely a matter of taste.<BR>
<BR>
> Then again, I'm still miffed about Car Wars ceasing development, >too.<BR>
<BR>
Now *that* I can't disagree with!<BR>
<BR>
> Chris Seemans writes<BR>
<BR>
It's Seamans, but it's no big deal! :)<BR>
<BR>
> >I wouldn't worry about it too much. It *is* the current official<BR>
> >Traveller, at least by default. That's exactly what a number of<BR>
> >people on the list in<BR>
><BR>
> Might I remind my esteemed colleagues of one clause in the GT<BR>
>liscence that MWM Made public: "Non-authoritative".<BR>
><BR>
> In short, GT stands alone, can borrow from, but more than likely is<BR>
> not to be reflected anywhere but GT. It is its own canon, by contract.<BR>
> It borrows from CT and MT, but it is specifically liscenced as not<BR>
> being an authoritative source, so I hope MWM sticks with that, but<BR>
> takes a hint from GT:FT and gets a decent set of trade and<BR>
>commerce mechanics in T5.<BR>
<BR>
Yes... and?<BR>
<BR>
In short, GT stands alone because it is the only version of Traveller<BR>
currently in print. With the exception of the folks who pick up T4 on sale,<BR>
or in a bargain bin, players who go and buy the version of Traveller<BR>
currently in print will be people who are buying GT. That means that if they<BR>
play Traveller, they will play GT, and if they write articles for Traveller<BR>
it will be for GT.<BR>
<BR>
To put it another way: GT is *it*, GT is what's out there in the trenches at<BR>
this moment. GDW, DGP and the various licensees who have contributed to the<BR>
Traveller Universe over the years are all gone now. The products are out of<BR>
print, they're available only to collectors, they're available only to<BR>
people who know what they're looking for.<BR>
<BR>
In that sense GT is an authoritative source, for good or for ill.<BR>
<BR>
If anything, GURPS Traveller has done what it intended to do in the first<BR>
place: it returned the flavor of Classic Traveller to a background which<BR>
after two decades forgot what it was supposed to taste like. Of course, your<BR>
own mileage may vary.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:20:16 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 6:37 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > >In message <991230.203511.3n3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>, Leonard<BR>
> > >Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes<BR>
> > >>Heck, anybody got a copy of the *real* Miranda warning? Let's see what<BR>
> > >>we can do with it!<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >You should hear the British one - you have effectively no right to<BR>
> > >remain silent, and most people don't understand the wording.<BR>
> > >Martin Hardgrave<BR>
> ><BR>
> >     Or the Australian one:<BR>
> >     "Shut up ya b*stard!" Whack! Whack! (sound of five cell Mag-Lite<BR>
hitting<BR>
> > kidneys)<BR>
><BR>
> Or the German one:<BR>
><BR>
> "You haff ze right to remain zilent, but ve haff veys of mekkingk you<BR>
talk!"<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Aussie coppers also front up to the door and announce to the scumbags, "Open<BR>
up!  Senior Sgt Donger, vice squad!  Here ta rough ya up!!"<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1625<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: <BR>
re: Gunnery<BR>
Re: Horses...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 00:24:57 +0000<BR>
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
In message <Pine.OSF.4.10.10001011025580.6659-100000@elixir.Pharmacy.Ari<BR>
zona.EDU>, Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> writes<BR>
>On Fri, 31 Dec 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I've heard of one big electric company sending out bills with a due<BR>
>> date in Jan 1900. This was followed by a comment by the newscaster<BR>
>> about no Y2k problems having been noted so far. :-(<BR>
>> <BR>
>> <sigh> It'd be nice if the people reporting this stuff had some idea<BR>
>> what it was all about.<BR>
><BR>
snip<BR>
><BR>
>As far as that billing mistake, I suspect the one of the bigger problems<BR>
>companies will have with the stupid things is that they'll be issuing<BR>
>replacent bills because people will want the originals as souveneirs...<BR>
><BR>
>That power company fixed the problem in a day, and sent out a revised<BR>
>bill, with their vaunted Y2K consultant footing the bill ;-)<BR>
><BR>
Rumour has it, my current employer (a top UK university) was convinced<BR>
it was y2k compliant, so back in October as a check the powers that be<BR>
set the date in "live" to 01 01 2000.  They hit upon an unforseen<BR>
problem - they couldn't login.  There was a helpful message that pointed<BR>
out that their license to use the software had expired on 31 12 1999.<BR>
- -- <BR>
Martin Hardgrave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 03:21:57 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
Craig Lytton wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I have thought of having players randomly generate their characters with<BR>
> Mercenary, High Guard, ect then convert them to  GURPS.  Rather than using<BR>
> the conversion method in the GURPS Traveller book, I thought of using the<BR>
> randomly generated skills to determine where the player can spend points.  I<BR>
> like the Mercenary/High Guard system because it gives you ideas of what sort<BR>
> of things your character did while in the service, plus I like the<BR>
> decorations and specialty schools.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, those of us who subscribe to _Pyramid_ can always download<BR>
the article (for personal use only) that described a GT random character<BR>
generation system.<BR>
<BR>
If you _don't_ subscribe to _Pyramid_, I suggest that you consider doing<BR>
so as soon as you can scrape up the $15 (US dollars) per year to do so. <BR>
_Pyramid_ gives you weekly articles on games from many publishers (in<BR>
other words, _Pyramid_ is not "just a house organ").  Further, _Pyramid_<BR>
subscribers get access to all GURPS playtest files, and can post<BR>
comments to the playtest message board.  Having done so, with GT:<BR>
Starports and GT: Imperial Navy, I can attest that the authors _do<BR>
listen_ to the suggestions posted.  At least one of my suggestions to<BR>
bring GT: Imperial Navy in line with established canon (the prevalence<BR>
of "chameleon coatings" for starships, mentioned as early as the MT SOM,<BR>
as well as in FF&S2 for T4) has been adopted, if not in GT:IN, then at<BR>
least in GT: Starships.<BR>
<BR>
How many other gaming companies give their public this level of input?<BR>
<BR>
**WARNING:  Diatribe follows**<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In response to those who have made personal attacks on Evil Stevie<BR>
himself, I ask five questions:<BR>
<BR>
1.  What gaming company (run by...whom?) gave Jesse DeGraff the<BR>
opportunity to do commercial Traveller artwork?<BR>
<BR>
2.  What gaming company head, when informed by a convention attendee<BR>
that there was a misspelled name in the credits of one of his company's<BR>
upcoming products, asked the convention attendee to _watch the company's<BR>
booth_, while said company head called the home office, to ensure that<BR>
the product did not go to press with the contributor's name misspelled?<BR>
<BR>
3.  Who among the SJG detractors has actually _met_ Steve Jackson?  (I<BR>
have, twice.  I was the con attendee in question #2 above.)<BR>
<BR>
4.  Who else here has played "Evil Stevie's Lego Pirate Game"?  If you<BR>
have, then you would know that the man _loves_ gaming.  Of all kinds.<BR>
<BR>
5.  How many _other_ gaming company heads would sanction being referred<BR>
to by such an informal name as "Evil Stevie"?  Steve Jackson is not an<BR>
exeutive who takes himself oh-so-seriously, he's a gamer who, when<BR>
Metagaming went under, decided to start his own company.  He's _one of<BR>
us_.<BR>
<BR>
Whatever your opinion of specific products, Steve Jackson and SJG have<BR>
made incredible contributions to our pastime, from "Ogre" and "The<BR>
Fantasy Trip", through "Illuminati" and GURPS, to "In Nomine", the<BR>
Silicon Valley Tarot, and _Pyramid_ magazine (both print and online).<BR>
<BR>
Sorry for the diatribe, but, as Spider Robinson said of his essay<BR>
defending Robert Heinlein, "Perhaps I overestimated the amount of<BR>
attention people pay to critics.  But OOOH it was fun!"<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 01:48:06 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com <GDWGAMES@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
>If I were thinner skinned, I could take offense.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Well, if you created the heritical mass that is GURPS Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 01:51:34 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
From: Clint Williams <aremis@amaonline.com><BR>
<BR>
>>The only thing<BR>
>>lower than the players of GURPS, & M:tG are the people who write GURPS,<BR>
>>Steve Jackson, & Pokemon Players.<BR>
<BR>
>Excuse me?  You know I really don't care what you say of me but my nephew<BR>
is<BR>
>a Pokemon player & I do not care for him being insulted in such a manner.<BR>
>I had to take him to the Pokemon Movie.  Lot's of annoying kids?  You bet.<BR>
>Do I think of them as lower life form?  Not at all.  I suffered way too<BR>
much<BR>
>as a gaming geek at a small school to point any fingers at fellow gamers no<BR>
>matter how much they bother me.  Clint.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Yes, CCGs are the makings of a lower form of life, & if a game causes 6<BR>
year olds to knife each other over cards, then screw it, burn the damn<BR>
things & be done with them.<BR>
    And, it could have been your name that they teased you about, or your<BR>
additude, not gaming.  I was a gamer in a small HS, but I also did other<BR>
things, I was on the football team, I was in the latin & chess clubs, I did<BR>
things other than just game.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 02:03:09 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
>     As for Morrow Project, play it using the Phoenix Command Rules.<BR>
<BR>
I've never used them, but they look like an exceptionally painful form<BR>
of slow torture. Use Aftermath - it's only slow torture :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Not really, once you got the hang of them, the games went by very<BR>
quickly & we had a lot of fun playing them.  And, they do have to great<BR>
rules in there.<BR>
    In one game, using the "Aliens" setting, a player was playing a member<BR>
of the CMC, who was part of a strike team sent to take out some rebels.  The<BR>
whole time, everything is FUBARed.  The DS drops them off at the wrong site,<BR>
& then is taken out by the rebels.  The APC is taken out by an unlucky role<BR>
by the driver as he goes over an anti-personnel mine.  Then the Strike Team<BR>
gets out of he APC & heads off to fight the rebels.  A player decides to<BR>
send up a flare so that their ship in orbit will know where they are, it<BR>
also lets the rebels know where they are as well, so they ambush the team.<BR>
Durring the firefight, a team of 20 people (the party) is attacked by 4<BR>
rebels.  The Party has better weapons, Pulse Rifles vs. Hunting Rifles.<BR>
Better Armor, Light Combat Armor vs. No Armor, & they lose.  The only person<BR>
who survived was a private, who everytime he was shot at, was missed, or had<BR>
glancing blows against his armor.  Grenades would go off around him & he<BR>
would be in the blast shadow of someone or something.  Nothing ever was able<BR>
to touch this guy.  And, the funny thing was that ships & vehicles would<BR>
share this, as long as he was in them, the moment he left & if they were in<BR>
combat, that ship or vehicle would be hit, with a critical hit & be<BR>
destroyed.<BR>
    The character was once pushed off a cliff & at the right place to land<BR>
in a haystack.  Nothing could hurt or kill this guy, I mean nothing.  I once<BR>
launched a Nuclear Strike on him & they were all duds & burned up on<BR>
re-entry.<BR>
    So it works, if you know the rules & are willing to have some fun.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 02:07:24 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
>     Steve Jackson Games, in general, & GURPS specificly, sucks.  I hate<BR>
> GURPS & its simpleminded players.  I hate their arrogance, I hate their<BR>
> lack of gender, I hate their high pitched voices, but, I love the way they<BR>
> run when you put a real game, like CT, on the table.<BR>
<BR>
Man that's a good button. Can I push it too?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    If you want.  I just hate GURPS.  I hate the idea that there is a GURPS:<BR>
Vampire, a GURPS:  Werewolf, a GURPS:  Mage, & I hate the way GURPS is<BR>
thought to be the first multi-genre RPG system, when it really was<BR>
Palladium's system.  And, I hate the fact that Steve Jackson games sent a<BR>
flier out to my favorite FLGS a few years ago saying that they had gotten<BR>
the rights to produce GURPS:  Star Trek, a week before Last Unicorn Games<BR>
got it.  Right now it sits over the LUG Star Trek section, taunting the<BR>
GURPS players.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 02:08:47 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
From: Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca><BR>
<BR>
>>Man that's a good button. Can I push it too?<BR>
><BR>
>  If you do, see if you can't reconnect some higher brain functions, too.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Is it so bad, that I want to see the blood of every GURPS player,<BR>
outside of their body, in vast amounts?<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 02:21:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
From: Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca><BR>
<BR>
>  Dare one ask if you actually have _reasons_ for any of the above?<BR>
>EG: "I'm annoyed by the sort of fuckwit that has a dozen-plus line<BR>
>sig because, being on digest-mode, I can't just delete their crap".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    You may ask, if you want.  But, it mostly comes from the local GURPS<BR>
players in the area, the PR machine of Steve Jackson, & how big a Dick Steve<BR>
Jackson is to most gamers.<BR>
    In my area, the GURPS players do not understand that there are other<BR>
RPGs out there.  They are arrogant to other gamers.  They all look alike,<BR>
male & female.  They all have high pitched sqeaky voices.  They do not<BR>
understand that a game can be fun without hundreds of charts & tables.<BR>
    For example, at my FLGS we were going to refight the final battle of the<BR>
Dominion War using LUG ST:TNG rules along with Star Fleet Battles & we had<BR>
reserved the huge table they keep there for it & when we showed up to play,<BR>
GURPS players were using our table & would not leave because they were there<BR>
first.  Also several of our minis, that we all kitbashed to create, ended up<BR>
in their pockets, I had to fight to get back my mini of the Soveriegn Class,<BR>
USS Stephan Decatur from one because he claimed that it was his, & it could<BR>
not have been, but he said that SJG had put it out & he had bought it.<BR>
    I did forget thieving trolls as well, but I am not going to go that far.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:36:38 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
>Subject: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
...<BR>
>I as well will push that button with an additional acusatory statement from<BR>
>my experiences: GURPS players tend to play the same character OVER AND<BR>
>OVER, in only slight variations by setting...<BR>
<BR>
  Guilty as charged, but random systems do that too - AD&D more than some,<BR>
but CT/MT also.<BR>
<BR>
>This very dichotomy is what spoiled me on GURPS in the first place...<BR>
>People fall into ruts when allowed to do so, and non-random CGen allows<BR>
>them to do so.<BR>
<BR>
  That I have to agree with; of course, I'm biased to CT anyways...<BR>
<BR>
>Autoduel Champions... but SJG was not listening to the fans then. I doubt<BR>
>they've learned since.<BR>
<BR>
  A number of TML'ers hang around the various Pyramid boards, and I think<BR>
that I can say with little risk of contradiction that when reality permits<BR>
the G:T people do in fact try and fix any potential problems which they<BR>
are aware of.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:39:17 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca><BR>
><BR>
> >>Man that's a good button. Can I push it too?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >  If you do, see if you can't reconnect some higher brain functions, too.<BR>
><BR>
>     Is it so bad, that I want to see the blood of every GURPS player,<BR>
> outside of their body, in vast amounts?<BR>
<BR>
Hey, Clif go home already......<BR>
<BR>
This is such a non issue let it drop.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 02:31:50 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com <GypsyComet@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
> Then you obviously are not one of those who were introduced to this hobby<BR>
of<BR>
>ours by the original Metagaming ads for OGRE, as I was; You've never run a<BR>
>public gaming club with the mission of de-munchkinizing the youngsters, as<BR>
I<BR>
>have; and you've never met Kevin Simbieda (sp?) of Palladium Games, which I<BR>
>haven't (thankfully) or Ken Whitman, which I have.<BR>
<BR>
    Acutally, Kevin Simbieda comes over to my house for a meal & a visit<BR>
everytime he comes out to Phoenix.  So Iwould have to say, that I know him,<BR>
& I know him quite well.<BR>
    And, I got into the hobby with AD&D, Traveller, & V&V.  I have run a<BR>
public gaming club & I have de-munchkinized the youngsters.  They were<BR>
munchkins due to GURPS.<BR>
<BR>
> There are evils, pomps, and ass-heads in this industry, but SJ is not one<BR>
of<BR>
>them. A fiery temper certainly, especially when crossed by a black-hat who<BR>
>used to be a white-hat (reference: the Secret Service and Stewart Wieck of<BR>
>White Wolf).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    And, when SJ says that he is not going to sign your copy of Auto-Duel<BR>
because he no longer makes it, or your copy of Killer because it is falling<BR>
apart, but much loved, then you have to have second thoughts about the man.<BR>
I have never found that with KS, or Steve Long, or Ross Issacson.  I have<BR>
found that SJ is a pompus fool who does not care about his fans.<BR>
<BR>
> As for GURPS players, the one "flaw" they share with M:tG and Pokemon<BR>
>players is their unbridled enthusiasm about the game they play. I envy (all<BR>
>of) them that, since a lot of mine's been worn away in the last twenty-plus<BR>
>years of gaming, but I do not hate them for it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    And, you forgot the fact that GURPS players will knife you over a GURPS<BR>
book.  I hate them because of their additude towards the rest of the gamers<BR>
out there.  I hate M:tG because they keep changing the rules to sell more<BR>
cards, & I hate Pokemon because of the knifings there as well.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 02:34:05 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
From: Kelly St.Clair <kellys@efn.org><BR>
<BR>
>And if he finds a publisher more interested in quality product than<BR>
>Imperium Games. <spit!><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    True.<BR>
<BR>
>If he does, this could be a pretty good business model.  A certain other<BR>
>science-fiction (for some very soft values of "SF") RPG by Last Unicorn<BR>
>Games has been released this way.  Before that, there was this little game<BR>
>called VAMPIRE put out by a company named White Wolf, you might have heard<BR>
>of it...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    That is the great thing about LUG, they use a common system in<BR>
everything.<BR>
<BR>
>Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to find a DO NOT FEED OR TEASE THE<BR>
>ANIMALS sign for LL's cage.<BR>
<BR>
    I already had one, I ate it, & the person who put it in here.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 02:42:20 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
>If you _don't_ subscribe to _Pyramid_, I suggest that you consider doing<BR>
>so as soon as you can scrape up the $15 (US dollars) per year to do so.<BR>
>_Pyramid_ gives you weekly articles on games from many publishers (in<BR>
>other words, _Pyramid_ is not "just a house organ").  Further, _Pyramid_<BR>
>subscribers get access to all GURPS playtest files, and can post<BR>
>comments to the playtest message board.  Having done so, with GT:<BR>
>Starports and GT: Imperial Navy, I can attest that the authors _do<BR>
>listen_ to the suggestions posted.  At least one of my suggestions to<BR>
>bring GT: Imperial Navy in line with established canon (the prevalence<BR>
>of "chameleon coatings" for starships, mentioned as early as the MT SOM,<BR>
>as well as in FF&S2 for T4) has been adopted, if not in GT:IN, then at<BR>
>least in GT: Starships.<BR>
><BR>
>How many other gaming companies give their public this level of input?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Palldium, Last Unicorn Games, Leading Edge Games, Fantasy Games<BR>
Unlimited.<BR>
<BR>
>**WARNING:  Diatribe follows**<BR>
<BR>
>In response to those who have made personal attacks on Evil Stevie<BR>
>himself, I ask five questions:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>1.  What gaming company (run by...whom?) gave Jesse DeGraff the<BR>
>opportunity to do commercial Traveller artwork?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    1. I know that FGU is trying to get in touch with Jesse DeGraff for some<BR>
artwork, but I do not know if any emails have gotten to him.<BR>
<BR>
>2.  What gaming company head, when informed by a convention attendee<BR>
>that there was a misspelled name in the credits of one of his company's<BR>
>upcoming products, asked the convention attendee to _watch the company's<BR>
>booth_, while said company head called the home office, to ensure that<BR>
>the product did not go to press with the contributor's name misspelled?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    2. KS did with Steven Trustman, when it was spelled Steven Trustrum.<BR>
<BR>
>3.  Who among the SJG detractors has actually _met_ Steve Jackson?  (I<BR>
>have, twice.  I was the con attendee in question #2 above.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I have, once, it was not fun.<BR>
<BR>
>4.  Who else here has played "Evil Stevie's Lego Pirate Game"?  If you<BR>
>have, then you would know that the man _loves_ gaming.  Of all kinds.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    4. Cannot say that I have had the pleasure.<BR>
<BR>
>5.  How many _other_ gaming company heads would sanction being referred<BR>
>to by such an informal name as "Evil Stevie"?  Steve Jackson is not an<BR>
>exeutive who takes himself oh-so-seriously, he's a gamer who, when<BR>
>Metagaming went under, decided to start his own company.  He's _one of<BR>
>us_.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    5. What about "The Kev" of Palladium, or Ross "The Angry Jew"<BR>
Issacson<sp> of LUG?  I have seen Ross run around a con, without a shirt.<BR>
And, what about BA from Shadis Magazine?  Who once climbed up a huge model<BR>
wearing a strapless evening gown & sang showtunes?  SJ does take himself<BR>
very seriously, at not being taken seriously.<BR>
<BR>
>Whatever your opinion of specific products, Steve Jackson and SJG have<BR>
>made incredible contributions to our pastime, from "Ogre" and "The<BR>
>Fantasy Trip", through "Illuminati" and GURPS, to "In Nomine", the<BR>
>Silicon Valley Tarot, and _Pyramid_ magazine (both print and online).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Orge & TFT were cool, but GURPS is just a way to make more & more money,<BR>
not a contributribution to the art of gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:01:48 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net><BR>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 9:54 AM<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >> Happy new year to all on the TML!!!<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>  Has anybody heard any Y2K problems yet, or can I start laughing at the<BR>
> >> doomsayers? :-)<BR>
><BR>
> My ISP had to do some recompiles last week to get the dates on some<BR>
servers<BR>
> set right... They'd date-advanced them to test their software.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Just looking at my ISP's notice board, all the user posts for Jan 1 were<BR>
dated the year 19100!  But the owner/admin is looking into it :^)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 23:29:24 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: re: Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 01:37:35 -0500<BR>
>From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
<BR>
>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
>Kids large enough to run around with minimal supervision (say bright<BR>
>3-year olds on up) will probably be trained to *always* have with them<BR>
>a small pack/satchel that contains a children's rescue ball. Smaller,<BR>
>and again probably somewhat tougher (partly to withstand handling by<BR>
>kids!).<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
>I wonder. Considering how long the Traveller societies have been in<BR>
>space, this kind of caution may be considered akin to an American<BR>
>suburbanite of the 1990's refusing to leave his home without survival<BR>
>rations, a firearm and a first aid kit. Reasonable behaviour for a person<BR>
>on a frontier, and some people do this, but the average person doesn't.<BR>
><BR>
>Aboard ships of a mature space-faring society, how common are life<BR>
>support failures? Hull breaches? For a surface to surface vessel<BR>
>(like a type-A Free Trader) that makes bi-weekly landings, spacewalks<BR>
>may even be something that happen every couple of years or so, unless<BR>
>something very unusual happens.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah.  The tendency seems to be to see space travel as being<BR>
equivalent of taking a space shuttle or other ship designed<BR>
at relatively low tech level.  Space Travel, as presented in<BR>
Traveller, would be more like fly a cessna air craft.  You<BR>
don't make everyone wear a parachute (not even kids).<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:11:44 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Horses...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <GaryBartz@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 10:57 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 1/1/00 7:17:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,<BR>
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
><BR>
> << <argh>  This recently came up on another list, but that fellow was<BR>
>  fairly certain that it was true, evidently because he found it on the<BR>
>  web, therefore it must be true...  <_argh_><BR>
>   >><BR>
><BR>
> Actually, the ruts in Pompeii are about that width...from the carts. I<BR>
> noticed that the distance between the street stepping stones was a set<BR>
> measure---the streets themselves being part of the sewage system and<BR>
animal<BR>
> transportation being in use. The cart wheels would have to be standard<BR>
gauge<BR>
> to fit between the stones.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
A friend of mine's father is a train nut, especially the age of steam.  He<BR>
has the Roman chariot thing equalling standard rail gauges in half the books<BR>
on his shelf, and he has a shitload of such books!  Thing is, Aussie rail<BR>
gauges aren't standard, with differing gauges between the states with "few"<BR>
exceptions.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1627</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1627<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1611<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: Jumps<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
re: THUDDD announcements<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: in jokes<BR>
Re: Horses<BR>
T5 vs GURPS<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie<BR>
Re:  Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Question, not flame bait<BR>
not really "GURPS vs T5?" anymore<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:19:01 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Date sent:      	Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:39:17 -0800<BR>
From:           	Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
<BR>
> Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
<BR>
Various things, mostly unimportant<BR>
<BR>
> This is such a non issue let it drop.<BR>
<BR>
I'll second that, no good can come out of this particular line of <BR>
dissussion.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Andrew etc<BR>
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 02:33:16 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
...<BR>
>    You may ask, if you want.  But, it mostly comes from the local GURPS<BR>
>players in the area, the PR machine of Steve Jackson, & how big a Dick Steve<BR>
>Jackson is to most gamers.<BR>
<BR>
  Wow. I know some people who don't like the GURPS system (and I've lost <BR>
a lot of enthusiasm for it myself over the years, for a variety of reasons),<BR>
but damn few that don't like the overall quality of the products (even some<BR>
of the Harn players will admit this).<BR>
<BR>
  As for the other, lots of things are two-way streets.<BR>
<BR>
>    For example, at my FLGS we were going to refight the final battle of the<BR>
>Dominion War using LUG ST:TNG rules along with Star Fleet Battles & we had<BR>
>reserved the huge table they keep there for it & when we showed up to play,<BR>
>GURPS players were using our table & would not leave because they were there<BR>
>first.  Also several of our minis, that we all kitbashed to create, ended up<BR>
>in their pockets, I had to fight to get back my mini of the Soveriegn Class,<BR>
>USS Stephan Decatur from one because he claimed that it was his, & it could<BR>
>not have been, but he said that SJG had put it out & he had bought it.<BR>
<BR>
  Allow me to suggest that the event you describe was probably not the<BR>
result of official SJG policy, or even a covert action by their MiBs.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:49:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 2:07, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
>     If you want.  I just hate GURPS.  I hate the idea that there is a<BR>
>     GURPS:<BR>
> Vampire, a GURPS:  Werewolf, a GURPS:  Mage, & I hate the way GURPS is<BR>
> thought to be the first multi-genre RPG system, when it really was<BR>
> Palladium's system.  And, I hate the fact that Steve Jackson games sent a<BR>
> flier out to my favorite FLGS a few years ago saying that they had gotten<BR>
> the rights to produce GURPS:  Star Trek, a week before Last Unicorn Games<BR>
> got it.  Right now it sits over the LUG Star Trek section, taunting the<BR>
> GURPS players.<BR>
<BR>
When did Palladium go multi-genre (as in not the their fantasy rules)? <BR>
If you count multi-genre as being the same or similar systems for <BR>
different games (as would be the case with the earlier Palladium stuff) <BR>
I would have said that Aftermath and its related systems (Bushido and <BR>
Daredevils) would've been first.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:49:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
<BR>
On 1 Jan 00, at 23:54, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
> >Subject: Re: [future_wars] OTP: Horses and Space Shuttles<BR>
> ...<BR>
> >A good next step would be the Mycenean Greeks (and the Egyptians, etc),<BR>
> >as they did use chariots, and the they were fairly standardised. The <BR>
> <BR>
>   They should also have been _very_ lightweight, and would not even<BR>
> have been moved loaded on rutted roads.<BR>
<BR>
Well if the number of spare wheels that the fortress inventories imply <BR>
they had per chariot is anything to go by they certainly didn't go in <BR>
for over-engineered wheels. As for the roads, they seem to be in the <BR>
wrong places for them to not be military in nature, and they're about <BR>
the right size for the chariots of the time, and maybe for a small <BR>
cart, so maybe they just went through lots of wheels. Given that the <BR>
chariot drivers and owners were nobles IMO this isn't out of the <BR>
question.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:49:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1611<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 19:02, The Roc wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> As for myself... the missus and I have only just returned from the New<BR>
> Year Celebrations... <phew><BR>
> <BR>
> Hope you actually had a good one Rupert, and everyone else too.<BR>
<BR>
Actually I did, and I too hope everyone else did as well.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 03:12:42 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
...<BR>
>    And, when SJ says that he is not going to sign your copy of Auto-Duel<BR>
>because he no longer makes it, or your copy of Killer because it is falling<BR>
>apart, but much loved, then you have to have second thoughts about the man.<BR>
>I have never found that with KS, or Steve Long, or Ross Issacson.  I have<BR>
>found that SJ is a pompus fool who does not care about his fans.<BR>
<BR>
  The only time I met him he signed our university gaming clubs copy<BR>
of GURPS & Car Wars; the former has long-since been stolen. And anyone <BR>
aware of the time & money that he puts into his LEGO Pirate games would<BR>
have a good laugh at the idea of his not caring for gaming, its fans,<BR>
or his fans.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 03:14:03 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>>If you _don't_ subscribe to _Pyramid_, I suggest that you consider doing<BR>
>>so as soon as you can scrape up the $15 (US dollars) per year to do so.<BR>
>>_Pyramid_ gives you weekly articles on games from many publishers (in<BR>
>>other words, _Pyramid_ is not "just a house organ").  <BR>
...<BR>
>>How many other gaming companies give their public this level of input?<BR>
><BR>
>Palldium, Last Unicorn Games, Leading Edge Games, Fantasy Games Unlimited.<BR>
<BR>
  ISTR one TML'er who had a "Palladium" page on his site, just to attract<BR>
threatening e-mails from said company; there is, after all, an element of<BR>
that name, so it was all perfectly innocent :)  I have to wonder if there<BR>
was a good reason for feeling that KS&Co had that coming to them?<BR>
<BR>
  IMHO, Palladium publishes second rate filler, but that doesn't warrant<BR>
further comments about their business practices, character, or complete<BR>
disdain for editing and the English language.<BR>
<BR>
>>Whatever your opinion of specific products, Steve Jackson and SJG have<BR>
>>made incredible contributions to our pastime, from "Ogre" and "The<BR>
>>Fantasy Trip", through "Illuminati" and GURPS, to "In Nomine", the<BR>
>>Silicon Valley Tarot, and _Pyramid_ magazine (both print and online).<BR>
><BR>
>    Orge & TFT were cool, but GURPS is just a way to make more & more money,<BR>
>not a contributribution to the art of gaming.<BR>
<BR>
  Were you by any chance conscious when Man-to-Man/GURPS first came out?<BR>
<BR>
  I assume that there's a specific business practice that offends you, as<BR>
a way to "make more & more money" is generally called _b-u-s-i-n-e-s-s_,<BR>
and some of your favourite game companies may in fact be making money. I<BR>
also can't help but wonder if you actually see the irony in condemning<BR>
GURPS for its multi-genre support (where they publish products of an over-<BR>
all high level of quality for a variety of different gamers) as opposed to<BR>
the Palladium programme of endless mediocre drivel*; admittedly, the rules<BR>
to the Palladium systems - as well thought out and written as they are -<BR>
would never permit, let alone encourage, munchkinism...<BR>
<BR>
  *OK, I'm exaggerating slightly, but that's what chains are for...<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 100 12:55:32 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: Jumps<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman writes:<BR>
<BR>
>As for the problem of Drop Tanks vs External charging, My take is a little<BR>
>different. I allow Drop tanks, but They merely pump into the main tanks as<BR>
>the mains are being drained. <BR>
<BR>
Not a bad idea, but unfortunately contrary to canon. The _Trimkhana<BR>
Brilliance_ didn't have internal tanks, and the same TNS newsbrief mentioned<BR>
that plans were underway to build jump-6 X-boats using the new drop tanks.<BR>
<BR>
>And, based upon several bits of canon scattered about, IMTU, the boundary<BR>
>of the jump bubble is permeable to matter, but not J-space physics; the<BR>
>bubble moves through J-space and is generated by either the coils or the<BR>
>hull grids. If you put mattter out the bubble, it disassembles itself in<BR>
>1d6 Plank Units of time, so the "Filling the Bubble" theories don't work<BR>
>for me. (Ref there is GDWs The Traveller Adventure.)<BR>
 <BR>
Back when I came up with the idea of a jump bubble to explain why there was<BR>
so huge a difference between the amount of power a jump drive got out of a<BR>
given amount of fuel and the amount a power plant did, I didn't mean a<BR>
bubble that would stay around the ship for the whole trip and protect it.<BR>
My idea was that the transfer between normal space and jump space was very<BR>
difficult. Something akin to the problem a supersonic plane has entering<BR>
water: At those speeds the water is as rigid as steel for just long enough<BR>
to smash the plane to smithereens. The part of the fuel that was not used<BR>
for power was used to "soften up" the area of jumpspace where the ship was<BR>
about to enter. Once a vehicle has entered water (assuming for purposes of<BR>
argument that it is designed for underwater travel), it can move as fast as<BR>
its engines will allow it. Similarily I envisaged that a starship would be<BR>
able to stay in jumpspace without further softening of jumpspace ('jump<BR>
bubble' is not a good name for the access space. It is confusing because<BR>
'jump bubble' is used for the protective area of real space that is<BR>
maintained by the jump grid, which is something quite different).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent<BR>
         events based on the individual situation."<BR>
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 04:47:50 -0800<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:59:57 -0900, "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
>I as well will push that button with an additional acusatory statement from<BR>
>my experiences: GURPS players tend to play the same character OVER AND<BR>
>OVER, in only slight variations by setting...<BR>
>That is why I love the Random CGen of CT/MT... You get what you rolled...<BR>
>now role-play it!<BR>
><BR>
>This very dichotomy is what spoiled me on GURPS in the first place...<BR>
>People fall into ruts when allowed to do so, and non-random CGen allows<BR>
>them to do so.<BR>
<BR>
I guess you never had a player reroll their character twenty times to get<BR>
the stats they wanted, or out-and-out cheat for the same result?  Or create<BR>
a succession of (say) elven fighter/magic-users who had different stats and<BR>
names, but otherwise seemed to have been decanted from the same clone vat?<BR>
<BR>
Traveller's much-praised/-pilloried character generation even provides a<BR>
ready-made excuse for such players:  "Oops, I Blew My Survival Roll.  Guess<BR>
I'll have to start over. *wink wink*"<BR>
<BR>
As someone else on this thread said:  if people want to play the same<BR>
character over and over again (crossing multiple rules systems in some<BR>
cases), they will.  No set of rules can prevent this, only GM Fiat; in this<BR>
case, the most important word in any GM's vocabulary:  "No."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair   "The Jigglypuff's trilling seems to have a <BR>
kellys@efn.org    tranquilizing effect on the human nervous system.<BR>
                  Fortunately, I am... immune..."<BR>
                            -- Mr. Spock, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:05:29 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
>As someone else on this thread said:  if people want to play the same<BR>
>character over and over again (crossing multiple rules systems in some<BR>
>cases), they will.  No set of rules can prevent this, only GM Fiat; in this<BR>
>case, the most important word in any GM's vocabulary:  "No."<BR>
<BR>
    I wasn't going to involve myself anymore in this but . . .<BR>
. . . when I write a scenario for my PCs, I do just that. One of my players<BR>
always plays "upright, honourable soldier," never anything else. Why should<BR>
he be forced to do something he doesn't want to? He likes that monotonous<BR>
stereotype, it doesn't effect the other players and he's *happy.* The whole<BR>
purpose is to have fun and I'm happy to let him enjoy himself, he's never<BR>
late for games and always says "Thanks Jim, that was great."<BR>
    There's any player types and I think I have a decent cross section, I<BR>
DON'T like rolling new PCs, I like to nurture my PC and watch it evolve but<BR>
I have a player who seems to have an aversion to playing the same PC twice.<BR>
    It takes all sorts.<BR>
    Jim.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 08:21:08 -0600<BR>
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@truserve.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
<BR>
>     Sorry, but the players of GURPS fit into the same ecological<BR>
nitch<sp?><BR>
> as Magic:  The Gathering.  And, it is one we do not need.  The only thing<BR>
> lower than the players of GURPS, & M:tG are the people who write GURPS,<BR>
> Steve Jackson, & Pokemon Players.<BR>
<BR>
Um, can we not get so personal here?<BR>
<BR>
For the record, some of the most intelligent people on the TML (IMHO) are<BR>
the authors of some of the GT products (or soon to be products).<BR>
Specifically, Far Trader, First In, and Ground Forces (not released yet) and<BR>
others. And I have done (and will be doing) work for SJG and GURPS<BR>
Traveller. And I really don't appreciate your comments or attitude.<BR>
<BR>
I really don't understand people sometimes. Okay, you don't like SJG, you<BR>
don't like GURPS. Cool. Your privledge and right. But personally insulting<BR>
those who do like it only lowers yourself and is a idiotic form of egotism.<BR>
Critisize the game if you want, but leave people out of it.<BR>
<BR>
*sigh* Only two days into the new year...<BR>
<BR>
Andy<BR>
<BR>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+<BR>
| Andrew Akins                                                       |<BR>
| Home: igor@truserve.com - http://www.truserve.com/~igor/           |<BR>
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |<BR>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+<BR>
| IMTU: tg++(**) tc+ ru+ ge 3i+ jt- st au ls+ kk++ hi+ as+ va+ dr++  |<BR>
|       so+ zh+ vi+ da+                                              |<BR>
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |<BR>
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e++ h---- r+++ y++++                          |<BR>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:57:38 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
At 15:52 -0500 27/12/99, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
>Not exactly. But since this is a *patent* we are talking about, the<BR>
>patent holder has every right to take the program away from you because<BR>
>it's "stolen property".<BR>
><BR>
>Of course, if you offer to pay a license fee, they may relent and let<BR>
>you keep it.<BR>
<BR>
If you can pay a reasonable licence fee don't they have to let you <BR>
use it? But I seem to recall that 'reasonable' isn't defined ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Shouldn't we put patents and copyright into the FAQ as it always <BR>
comes up cf Vilani?<BR>
<BR>
Dom (vague memories)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:19:03 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: THUDDD announcements<BR>
<BR>
At 5:34 -0500 28/12/99, "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Like some of you, I have gotten tired of having to enter<BR>
>ISBA mailing list address(es), so I have enlisted the<BR>
>assistance of ListBot to host the ISBA mailing list.  You<BR>
>may join by writing to<BR>
>THUDDD-subscribe@ListBot.com<BR>
>As far as I can tell, you don't need to include anything<BR>
>particular anywhere (besides the correct return address).<BR>
<BR>
<SARCASM><BR>
<BR>
Gosh. A 3rd ISBA list. And it's *so* hard to set up an email nickname <BR>
(Eudora) or address (outlook) that launches to both lists.<BR>
<BR>
</SARCASM><BR>
<BR>
I'm not really certain of the need for a third list anyway. And <BR>
certainly subbing to a new list is more effort than typing 'ISBA' or <BR>
clicking on ''Mail to'' from my perspective... Hey ho. I suppose it's <BR>
a new start.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:58:55 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
At 15:52 -0500 27/12/99, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
>Not really. For one thing, because there is no "common vector format".<BR>
>There *certainly* isn't one for web graphics. The only *attempt* at one<BR>
>is the folks who have ported RIP (formerly a format for BBS screens) to<BR>
>a web browser add-on.<BR>
<BR>
Isn't Flash moving towards a standard?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:27:28 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: in jokes<BR>
<BR>
At 23:15 -0500 27/12/99, "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
> >> >The "Monarch" class Imperial battlecruiser _Norton I_ (the Bay Area<BR>
> >> >folks should recognize this one!)<BR>
> >> Along with the Willie I, of course!<BR>
> >> His Imperial Majesty Willie I, Ruler of all lands West of <BR>
>Emeryville to the<BR>
> >> Farallon Islands, Lord of San Francisco, Protector of Treasure Island,<BR>
> >> Defender of the Bay Bridge.<BR>
> >><BR>
>I want a Willie I in my universe just so that I can blow the living fuck out<BR>
>of it.<BR>
<BR>
You know, that could be rude if you took it out of context. <g><BR>
<BR>
Dom (who has spent far to much time with his old university friends <BR>
in London this weekend for the Y2k rollover and is having problems <BR>
reading without seeing innuendos...  32 Digests to go)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:00:53 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
<BR>
>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: <GaryBartz@aol.com><BR>
>To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
>Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 10:57 AM<BR>
>Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>> In a message dated 1/1/00 7:17:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,<BR>
>> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
>><BR>
>> << <argh>  This recently came up on another list, but that fellow was<BR>
>>  fairly certain that it was true, evidently because he found it on the<BR>
>>  web, therefore it must be true...  <_argh_><BR>
>>   >><BR>
>><BR>
>> Actually, the ruts in Pompeii are about that width...from the carts. I<BR>
>> noticed that the distance between the street stepping stones was a set<BR>
>> measure---the streets themselves being part of the sewage system and<BR>
>animal<BR>
>> transportation being in use. The cart wheels would have to be standard<BR>
>gauge<BR>
>> to fit between the stones.<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>A friend of mine's father is a train nut, especially the age of steam.  He<BR>
>has the Roman chariot thing equalling standard rail gauges in half the<BR>
books<BR>
>on his shelf, and he has a shitload of such books!  Thing is, Aussie rail<BR>
>gauges aren't standard, with differing gauges between the states with "few"<BR>
>exceptions.<BR>
><BR>
From what I remember from history at school there were several railway<BR>
gauges in use in England at one time.  (In fact there are still 'narrow<BR>
gauge' railways in use as tourist attractions etc.).<BR>
<BR>
For a short descirption try:<BR>
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RAgauge.htm<BR>
<BR>
In fact, almost nothing is ever standardised initially unless some<BR>
company/government has total market domination.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav:  The 3I has had plenty of time for say TL13/14 to have been<BR>
standardised, but systems developed at the forefront of technology are bound<BR>
to be incompatible.  Software developed for a linear digital computer is not<BR>
going to run on an analogue neural network even if you have standardised<BR>
media.  (Any any Imperial Virtual Machine standard will also become<BR>
obselete - no doubt initially replaced by several competing 'standards', one<BR>
of which may well be adopted as a stadard.)<BR>
<BR>
Mark.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 10:21:37 -0500<BR>
From: "Vincent P. Runci" <vahid@prodigy.net><BR>
Subject: T5 vs GURPS<BR>
<BR>
If I were thinner skinned, I could take offense.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
And the hammer drops<BR>
<BR>
I say keep up the good work<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 10:38:23 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<< >If I were thinner skinned, I could take offense.<BR>
 <BR>
 <BR>
     Well, if you created the heritical mass that is GURPS Traveller.  >><BR>
<BR>
I and others. <BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
     GDW Emeritus<BR>
     SJ Games Emigre<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:17:56 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
>my experiences: GURPS players tend to play the same character OVER AND<BR>
>OVER, in only slight variations by setting...<BR>
>That is why I love the Random CGen of CT/MT... You get what you rolled...<BR>
>now role-play it!<BR>
><BR>
>This very dichotomy is what spoiled me on GURPS in the first place...<BR>
>People fall into ruts when allowed to do so, and non-random CGen allows<BR>
>them to do so.<BR>
<BR>
I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. One of the players in my<BR>
game will, in a non-random CGen system, come up with one of two character<BR>
types: the tough ex-military guy, or the inscrutable oriental warrior type.<BR>
He does both of these very well. In my GURPS Traveller game, he's doing the<BR>
tough ex-military guy, which fits the campaign. I've been gaming with him <BR>
for over 10 years now, and have found that in systems with random character<BR>
generation, if he gets something rar removed from either of his two regular<BR>
archetypes, he doesn't do well with it, and eventually gets bored and wants<BR>
a new character.<BR>
<BR>
I don't see that as falling into a rut -- I see that is going with one's<BR>
strengths and being aware of one's own limitations. :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:23:53 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>>The only thing<BR>
>>lower than the players of GURPS, & M:tG are the people who write GURPS,<BR>
>>Steve Jackson, & Pokemon Players.<BR>
><BR>
> Then you obviously are not one of those who were introduced to this hobby<BR>
of <BR>
>ours by the original Metagaming ads for OGRE, as I was; You've never run a <BR>
>public gaming club with the mission of de-munchkinizing the youngsters, as I <BR>
>have; and you've never met Kevin Simbieda (sp?) of Palladium Games, which I <BR>
>haven't (thankfully) or Ken Whitman, which I have.<BR>
<BR>
If you look at Legate's home page, you'll find a ton of links and graphics<BR>
proclaiming his love for the Palladium system and its games, particularly<BR>
Macross. Not only is Palladium the worst RPG rules system I've ever come<BR>
across, I've found that its games, and in particular Rifts and Macross,<BR>
are particularly popular with munchkins... <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:29:59 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie<BR>
<BR>
>Whatever your opinion of specific products, Steve Jackson and SJG have<BR>
>made incredible contributions to our pastime, from "Ogre" and "The<BR>
>Fantasy Trip", through "Illuminati" and GURPS, to "In Nomine", the<BR>
>Silicon Valley Tarot, and _Pyramid_ magazine (both print and online).<BR>
<BR>
A week ago I picked up one of SJGames' newest products, and brought it<BR>
with me yesterday when my gaming group got together for the day to watch<BR>
videos. The product: the "Chez Geek" card game. We had so much fun with it,<BR>
we never actually got around to watching any movies... I know this is way<BR>
OT, but this card game is a *lot* of fun!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 11:45:57 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re:  Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 1 Jan 2000, Glenn St-Germain wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav: What kind of problems (if any) did the Imperium have preparing for <BR>
> the (Imperial) year 1000?<BR>
<BR>
<Sigh>  Here we go again.<BR>
<BR>
The Imperium had *NO* problems with the Y1K (T.I.), because they have a<BR>
free-market economy with an absolute minimum of government interference,<BR>
thus guaranteeing maximum quality and efficiency and individual freedom,<BR>
ruled by impartial aristocrats.  Therefore it's clearly impossible for<BR>
their computer equipment to have had similar glitches (and it's no thanks<BR>
to the Vilani, if that's what you're thinking!). <BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 11:51:35 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Question, not flame bait<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 01/02/00 at 12:36 AM,  "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Who officially owns the Seeker copyrights?<BR>
> <BR>
> <groan!> Is *every* discussion of the past year going to be<BR>
> recapitulated on the first day of the new year?  <g><BR>
<BR>
Tempt me not, heretic.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 11:57:14 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: not really "GURPS vs T5?" anymore<BR>
<BR>
among other flamebait and regretable anecdotes, Legate said:<BR>
<BR>
>    And, you forgot the fact that GURPS players will knife you over a GURPS<BR>
>book.  I hate them because of their additude towards the rest of the gamers<BR>
>out there.  I hate M:tG because they keep changing the rules to sell more<BR>
>cards, & I hate Pokemon because of the knifings there as well.<BR>
><BR>
>Legate Legion<BR>
<BR>
 That is one poisonous community of gamers you've got there, Legate. All I <BR>
can say (and WILL say, as this is way too OT to continue) is that the rest of <BR>
the gaming world is not (quite) as bad as your experiences indicate.<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:02:10<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
At 11:53 PM 1/1/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>So what's your status now (Besides "Alive, gloriously", that is)?<BR>
>And what's your _next_ long-term goal?<BR>
<BR>
Let's see.. no immune system, wildly varying energy levels, platelet levels<BR>
that make my doctor cry.. Pretty damn good, all things considered.<BR>
<BR>
My next goal?  Other than seeing ACQ and GF in print?  Y'all are going to<BR>
laugh...<BR>
<BR>
In 2002 Kirsten and I are travelling to South Africa for the total eclipse.<BR>
 Among other things, I'll be visiting Ladysmith (where my great-grandfather<BR>
was one of the besieged troops).<BR>
<BR>
Also, I'll be visiting an isolated beach, which is the winter home of<BR>
thousands of penguins.  Tens of thousands of King Penguins.  I'll be<BR>
wearing a tux.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"Pardon me, excuse me, Giant vampiric flightless winged<BR>
squirrel, coming through.."  -Tim the Paladin, "Yamara"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1627<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1628<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: A Microsith Postcard for the TML (with penguin)<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: Question, not flame bait<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs T5<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
People who hate SJG<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: Penguins and Reality<BR>
Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
More....<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Question, not flame bait<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 08:56:55<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A Microsith Postcard for the TML (with penguin)<BR>
<BR>
At 04:34 PM 1/1/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>http://www.microsith.com/postcard/view.php3?key=070004900946771189<BR>
<BR>
>I am bringing Japanese Cool Mint gum to the next SF Traveller meeting if<BR>
>there is one.  It has penguins on the wrappers.<BR>
<BR>
I am beginning to feel like Arthur "Two Sheds" Jackson...<BR>
<BR>
In answer to the question posed: blue.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:09:44<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
At 10:59 PM 1/1/2000 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I as well will push that button with an additional acusatory statement from<BR>
>my experiences: GURPS players tend to play the same character OVER AND<BR>
>OVER, in only slight variations by setting...<BR>
<BR>
Some people do that.  Others take the chance to explore.  The last G:Magic<BR>
game I played I was a female Elloweyen mage.  Quite a change for me, and an<BR>
interesting character.<BR>
<BR>
One of my roommates plays the same character no matter what the system.<BR>
Doesn't matter what the dice say, you are going to get Gregor.<BR>
<BR>
>Then again, I'm still miffed about Car Wars ceasing development, too. And<BR>
>about GURPS Autoduel as the "Roleplaying Rules for Car Wars"... It wasn't<BR>
>compatable, never would be, and now isn't even convertable back and forth<BR>
>with the ccoming of 2nd ed GA. Heck, they'd a good set of RP adjustments in<BR>
>Autoduel Champions... but SJG was not listening to the fans then. I doubt<BR>
>they've learned since.<BR>
<BR>
Several times I've heard the ditor of Pyramid saying they'd love to publish<BR>
stuff for Car Wars, if anybody would write something!<BR>
<BR>
You can't expect SJG to give extensive support to what has essentially<BR>
become a niche game in a niche market.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:11:07<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
At 02:43 AM 1/2/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>Craig Lytton wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I like the Mercenary/High Guard system because it gives you ideas of what <BR>
>> sort of things your character did while in the service, plus I like the<BR>
>> decorations and specialty schools.<BR>
><BR>
>I agree that specialty schools are great. Has anyone picked up GT: Star<BR>
>Mercs?  Pros and Cons?<BR>
<BR>
The Specialist schools will be in Ground Forces as sets of skills added to<BR>
a character's template.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:26:00 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> In 2002 Kirsten and I are travelling to South Africa for the total eclipse.<BR>
>  Among other things, I'll be visiting Ladysmith (where my great-grandfather<BR>
> was one of the besieged troops).<BR>
> <BR>
> Also, I'll be visiting an isolated beach, which is the winter home of<BR>
> thousands of penguins.  Tens of thousands of King Penguins.  I'll be<BR>
> wearing a tux.<BR>
<BR>
Well, that's a 1.0, anyway.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:28:41 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Question, not flame bait<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > On 01/02/00 at 12:36 AM,  "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net> said:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >Who officially owns the Seeker copyrights?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > <groan!> Is *every* discussion of the past year going to be<BR>
> > recapitulated on the first day of the new year?  <g><BR>
> <BR>
> Tempt me not, heretic.<BR>
<BR>
Postogeny recapitulates phylogeny.<BR>
<BR>
(At least I'm not _wasting_ my time in college.  This time.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:20:04<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 11:26 PM 1/1/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>What are the plans for T5?  Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE<BR>
>canon?  Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
Well, i love it, and it's not just the paychecks.  :)<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, the FLGS' I deal with tell me that GT stuff flies off the<BR>
shelves.  They are constantly on reorder, while products like Who's Who<BR>
tend to sit.<BR>
<BR>
Now about T5.. um, move over Eris, I need a seat in the heretic bunker.<BR>
<BR>
Unless T5 is so outstandingly brilliant that it gets heralded as the dawn<BR>
of a new gaming movement, I think it will fail.  People are getting into<BR>
Traveller because they know GURPS, and are falling in love with the<BR>
setting.  It would take an amazing game to convince people to learn a new<BR>
system to essetially play the same game.<BR>
<BR>
Then there's the wealth of GURPS material avalible.  I'm running an<BR>
adventure on a GTL-5 world.  What are the guards armed with?  How about<BR>
transportation? Grab my copy of G:High Tech and I'm ready to go.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:25:31<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 10:33 PM 1/1/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
<BR>
>    Steve Jackson Games, in general, & GURPS specificly, sucks.  I hate<BR>
>GURPS & its simpleminded players.  I hate their arrogance, I hate their lack<BR>
>of gender, I hate their high pitched voices, but, I love the way they run<BR>
>when you put a real game, like CT, on the table.<BR>
<BR>
Why thank you.  I've been playing GURPS since the first edition, and never<BR>
realized that I was simple-minded.  I'll speak with my wife about my lack<BR>
of gender, and as for my voice, I could make a living as a back-up foghorn.<BR>
<BR>
Any opinions about Jews? Goths? Anybody else you don't happen to like?<BR>
<BR>
I've been gaming since 1977, and have played Traveller since that time.<BR>
Craig bought one of the first copies in the state.  In all those years,<BR>
through countless clubs, conventions and campaigns, I have never seen such<BR>
a juvenile attack.<BR>
<BR>
>    As a rule, I hate GURPS Traveller, & think it should be burned along<BR>
>with Steve Jackson, his game company, the writers, & anyone else assoiciated<BR>
>with it, but the artists, but the Artwork is damn good.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, making terrorist threats?<BR>
<BR>
I am a writer for Steve Jackson Games.  You are more than welcome to try it<BR>
with me.  Just name the place.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:28:20<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 11:04 PM 1/1/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>    Sorry, but the players of GURPS fit into the same ecological nitch<sp?><BR>
<BR>
It's niche.<BR>
<BR>
>as Magic:  The Gathering.  And, it is one we do not need.  The only thing<BR>
>lower than the players of GURPS, & M:tG are the people who write GURPS,<BR>
>Steve Jackson, & Pokemon Players.<BR>
<BR>
I play Magic.  even played Pokemon with my half-siblings-in-law.  They're<BR>
both fun games.<BR>
<BR>
But I guess since they offend you, they must be wiped from the face of the<BR>
Earth, and cleansed by fire!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:35:24<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 01:51 AM 1/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>    Yes, CCGs are the makings of a lower form of life, & if a game causes 6<BR>
>year olds to knife each other over cards, then screw it, burn the damn<BR>
>things & be done with them.<BR>
<BR>
Legate, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't your sig used to claim you were<BR>
a "militant jewish terrorist"? or some such?<BR>
<BR>
Odd for such a person to so eager to describe others as untermenchen.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:40:10<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 02:21 AM 1/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>    You may ask, if you want.  But, it mostly comes from the local GURPS<BR>
>players in the area, the PR machine of Steve Jackson, & how big a Dick Steve<BR>
>Jackson is to most gamers.<BR>
<BR>
And all those Jews own the banks, and are greedy.<BR>
<BR>
>    In my area, the GURPS players do not understand that there are other<BR>
>RPGs out there.  They are arrogant to other gamers.  They all look alike,<BR>
>male & female.  They all have high pitched sqeaky voices.  They do not<BR>
>understand that a game can be fun without hundreds of charts & tables.<BR>
<BR>
Those damn blacks all have big lips and fuzzy hair, and can't understand a<BR>
white man's job.<BR>
<BR>
You can't tell those damn asians apart, they all look alike.<BR>
<BR>
>    For example, at my FLGS we were going to refight the final battle of the<BR>
>Dominion War using LUG ST:TNG rules along with Star Fleet Battles<BR>
<BR>
You're a Star trek fan?  Eeww..That means you are an overweight smelly<BR>
virgin who still lives in his parents' house, right?<BR>
<BR>
(Apologies to anyone offended, I do not believe any of the sterotypes I<BR>
used, but used them to make a point.)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:41:18<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 02:08 AM 1/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>    Is it so bad, that I want to see the blood of every GURPS player,<BR>
>outside of their body, in vast amounts?<BR>
<BR>
Send me your address.  Now.  You are making terrorist threats and I will<BR>
*not* stand for it.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 09:42:12 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
>I as well will push that button with an additional acusatory statement from<BR>
my experiences: GURPS players tend to play the same character OVER AND OVER,<BR>
in only slight variations by setting...<BR>
>That is why I love the Random CGen of CT/MT... You get what you rolled...<BR>
now role-play it!<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I don't like that about any of the random CGen games.  First of all, there's<BR>
nothing, except the referee, to stop you from rolling characters till you<BR>
get one you like.  In fact, you may have to do that if you die a lot in the<BR>
mustering out process.<BR>
<BR>
Second of all, there is no way to ensure character balance.  Some people<BR>
can't roll dice to save their lives; there is another person, and there is<BR>
one in almost every gaming group, who can be counted on to max out all their<BR>
rolls and create a minor god whenever they pull out their dice.<BR>
<BR>
Third of all, people play games for different reasons and they have a right<BR>
to play character types that they enjoy.  I am not the person you want<BR>
playing the gearhead CHARACTER because I am ye olde traditional Romantic<BR>
type roleplayer and whether I am male or female, noble or rogue, I do NOT<BR>
have the personality to play a crusty old marine veteran nor a gadgeteer,<BR>
although I may enjoy interacting with them greatly if they are roleplayed<BR>
well.<BR>
<BR>
Fourth of all, have you ever been on a random CGen adventure with three<BR>
gunners, a computer specialist, no one who could fight, no medic, and no one<BR>
who could deal well with the public?<BR>
<BR>
Fifth of all, bad roleplaying (caused by someone stuck with a character they<BR>
hate and/or don't understand) makes the game unbearable for everyone else,<BR>
not just the person who's stuck.<BR>
<BR>
I am not real good at arithmetic, so I never liked the Hero Games system,<BR>
but long before there was ever a GURPS, I gave people a set number of points<BR>
to divide for their stats in my Arduin Grimoire, Chaosium system, and CT<BR>
games.  I also gave people a set number of points for skills in CT (I think<BR>
you got a set number in Chaosium depending on your INT and other stats, or<BR>
did I do that?).<BR>
<BR>
I also used the oops instead of death during mustering out tables.  This<BR>
meant that we didn't have to spend all day rolling up characters just so<BR>
that everyone had one s/he liked and we had a balance of skills to do the<BR>
adventure.<BR>
<BR>
>This very dichotomy is what spoiled me on GURPS in the first place...<BR>
People fall into ruts when allowed to do so, and non-random CGen allows them<BR>
to do so.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Well, I don't know about you-- but gaming is something I do for fun, not to<BR>
work on my personality flaws.  I want to play characters whose problems are<BR>
DIFFERENT from my real life problems, as I tried to explain to a D & D ref<BR>
when I told him that I wasn't interested in being in his campaign because<BR>
everyone had to start out REALLY poor because that's the way most people<BR>
were back then.  At that time I was living on a teaching assistant's stipend<BR>
and my boyfriend had lost his job.  Going to a game and facing dire poverty<BR>
was not the escape I needed.  (As if people back then often possessed the<BR>
capacity to cast spells with visible effects...)  So for me, personally,<BR>
there are some types of characters I just don't want to play.  Now there is<BR>
a wide variety of characters that I will play.  But... I do have the right<BR>
to a game that is fun for me as well as for the ref, and if I don't get it,<BR>
I'll vote with my feet.  (Doesn't mean you're a bad ref, just means that<BR>
what I want to do and what you want to do aren't compatible.)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:44:43<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 03:12 AM 1/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>  The only time I met him he signed our university gaming clubs copy<BR>
>of GURPS & Car Wars; the former has long-since been stolen. And anyone <BR>
>aware of the time & money that he puts into his LEGO Pirate games would<BR>
>have a good laugh at the idea of his not caring for gaming, its fans,<BR>
>or his fans.<BR>
<BR>
I had the opportunity to speak with him at a Con a few years back, and<BR>
signed my ancient copy of the Ogre rules, and we chatted for about fifteen<BR>
minutes.<BR>
<BR>
Given LL's remarks about wanting to kill GURPS players, I wonder about what<BR>
really happened at that game store incident.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 10:30:19 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs T5<BR>
<BR>
>    For example, at my FLGS we were going to refight the final battle of the<BR>
>Dominion War using LUG ST:TNG rules along with Star Fleet Battles & we had<BR>
>reserved the huge table they keep there for it & when we showed up to play,<BR>
>GURPS players were using our table & would not leave because they were there<BR>
>first.  Also several of our minis, that we all kitbashed to create, ended up<BR>
>in their pockets, I had to fight to get back my mini of the Soveriegn Class,<BR>
>USS Stephan Decatur from one because he claimed that it was his, & it could<BR>
>not have been, but he said that SJG had put it out & he had bought it.<BR>
<BR>
Steve Jackson Games has never, ever, produced anything licenced for <BR>
Star Trek, be it a published rulebook or a miniature model of any kind.<BR>
If your associate claims that the miniature of the Sovereign-class vessel<BR>
in dispute was produced by SJ Games, he is either lying or misinformed. <BR>
I strongly suspect the former.<BR>
<BR>
(Come to think of it, I don't recall SJ Games producing miniatures of any<BR>
kind, except possibly way back in the days of OGRE.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 09:53:52 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<<Also, I'll be visiting an isolated beach, which is the winter home of<BR>
thousands of penguins.  Tens of thousands of King Penguins.  I'll be wearing<BR>
a tux.>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Take pictures.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:19:40 -0000<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: People who hate SJG<BR>
<BR>
1. Thank you for the personal insult, whoever you were. I saw a quote and<BR>
didn't bother to look up the original poster's identity. But anyway; I<BR>
assume that my non-GURPS Traveller material is also worthless, since I had<BR>
the gall to write for SJG?<BR>
<BR>
2. I feel the need to say this about SJG: They Pay Their Freelancers. Those<BR>
of us who work in the industry respect that very highly. Mr Jackson has<BR>
dealt fairly and courteously with me at all times, even when I've bothered<BR>
him with stupid questions. The Line Editor isn't a bad sort, either (Wry<BR>
grin).<BR>
<BR>
So okay, you dislike SJG. Your opinion. I do object to you making personal<BR>
remarks about the various writers, though.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:58:19<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie<BR>
<BR>
At 09:29 AM 1/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>A week ago I picked up one of SJGames' newest products, and brought it<BR>
>with me yesterday when my gaming group got together for the day to watch<BR>
>videos. The product: the "Chez Geek" card game. We had so much fun with it,<BR>
>we never actually got around to watching any movies... I know this is way<BR>
>OT, but this card game is a *lot* of fun!<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: I'm working on a Traveller version..  one of the greatest questions<BR>
in Traveller has always been how do Droyn f..(SLAP) err, what does a ship<BR>
crew do during jump?<BR>
<BR>
Chez Beowulf.  Instead of income you have "Pull", your ability to order<BR>
people and get what you want.<BR>
<BR>
Sample Cards:<BR>
<BR>
Pilot:<BR>
Free Time 3 Pull 2<BR>
Slack Goal 22<BR>
"Yep.  Still in jump."<BR>
<BR>
Ex-Army Guy:<BR>
Free Time 4 Pull 0/2<BR>
Slack Goal 18<BR>
"I shoot things."<BR>
"Useful skill in deep space."<BR>
<BR>
Along with unique activities and items.. I may actually pitch this to SJG<BR>
after I'm done with GF.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 10:03:46<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
At 02:42 AM 1/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>    Palldium<BR>
<BR>
!  Try to start a Rifts website.  You'll have lots of interaction with<BR>
Kevin.  and his lawyers.<BR>
<BR>
>>1.  What gaming company (run by...whom?) gave Jesse DeGraff the<BR>
>>opportunity to do commercial Traveller artwork?<BR>
><BR>
>    1. I know that FGU is trying to get in touch with Jesse DeGraff for some<BR>
>artwork, but I do not know if any emails have gotten to him.<BR>
<BR>
*Buzz*  Wrong, searching out an established artist is not the same thing as<BR>
giving a newbie a big break.<BR>
<BR>
>>Whatever your opinion of specific products, Steve Jackson and SJG have<BR>
>>made incredible contributions to our pastime, from "Ogre" and "The<BR>
>>Fantasy Trip", through "Illuminati" and GURPS, to "In Nomine", the<BR>
>>Silicon Valley Tarot, and _Pyramid_ magazine (both print and online).<BR>
<BR>
>    Orge & TFT were cool, but GURPS is just a way to make more & more money,<BR>
>not a contributribution to the art of gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Wait a minute!  You mean a *businessman* is out to make money!!  How DARE he! <BR>
<BR>
If gaming is an art, the Siembedia is Jackson Pollock.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 10:07:44<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins and Reality<BR>
<BR>
At 06:06 PM 1/2/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
>    Its strange how real life tends to intrude on harmless humour, the<BR>
>following is absolutely true.<BR>
>    The Fairy Penguin rookerie which is the site of the nightly penguin<BR>
>parade was ground zero for an oil spill today in Victoria, Australia.<BR>
>Already 45 adult birds from the small rookerie have been recovered and are<BR>
>being decontaminated but their chicks are starving in their nests, the cause<BR>
>of the spill has not been identified yet.<BR>
<BR>
A pre-emptive strike by the Templars against their mortal foes.<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, since I have become such a fiend for the little freaks, could<BR>
you send my a URL where I could follow the story?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 10:16:05<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
<BR>
At 06:19 PM 1/2/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>So okay, you dislike SJG. Your opinion. I do object to you making personal<BR>
>remarks about the various writers, though.<BR>
<BR>
And as somebody who has seen that sort of rhetoric turn into bodies and<BR>
grief, might I add a hearty shut up?<BR>
<BR>
LL, you are free to hate SJG.  You can mutter your life away about what a<BR>
bad, bad man he is.  You have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to imply that he or<BR>
anybody else should be physically harmed.<BR>
<BR>
That is a crime if you do it loud enough.  Do you understand that?  If you<BR>
say the SJG should be burned to the ground, they can come after you for<BR>
making terrorist threats.  This is the same company that took own the<BR>
Secret Service and won.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:32:37 -0000<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: More....<BR>
<BR>
I was so irritated that I went back and found out who it was...<BR>
<BR>
Mr Legion, who used to loudly claim to be a terrorist as if that were<BR>
something to be proud of, is calling someone else scum? (Don't ask me about<BR>
the terrorist thing, you won't get an answer); who clutters up the digest<BR>
with his endlessly-expanding sig line....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Mr Legion, I understand free speech etc very well. But I will ask you, this<BR>
once, to please stop hurling random childish abuse around this<BR>
supposedly-mature forum. I managed to get along with Leroy, and I even<BR>
managed to keep my promise not to say another word about/to Clif. I ignored<BR>
the german gentleman who sent me emails ORDERING me to desist from writing<BR>
for SJG.<BR>
<BR>
But if you are going to be so deliberately offensive to myself and the<BR>
others wo wrote/write for SJG on the GT line, then I think it is time you<BR>
were asked to leave the list.<BR>
<BR>
I find you most offensive, not to mention childish.<BR>
<BR>
Kindly go away and annoy someone else.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 12:19:58 -0600<BR>
From: "Clint Williams" <aremis@amaonline.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
<BR>
>    Yes, CCGs are the makings of a lower form of life, & if a game causes 6<BR>
>year olds to knife each other over cards, then screw it, burn the damn<BR>
>things & be done with them.<BR>
>    And, it could have been your name that they teased you about, or your<BR>
>additude, not gaming.  I was a gamer in a small HS, but I also did other<BR>
>things, I was on the football team, I was in the latin & chess clubs, I did<BR>
>things other than just game.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Congradulations, I am glad you were on the football team.  I too engaged in<BR>
extra-curricular activities, that's not what I'm talking about.  My point is<BR>
gamer's seem to be more sectarian than Christians, Moslems, or Socialist.<BR>
Each little faction is convinved only they have the correct interpretation.<BR>
Time that would be better spent trying to get people to game with is spent<BR>
bickering over pointless differences.<BR>
<BR>
As for CCGs, I do not believe my nephew has ever been involved in a knifing<BR>
or that he would be over mere cards.   I tend to believe most involved w/<BR>
them are not that insane.<BR>
~Clint<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:47:02 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Question, not flame bait<BR>
<BR>
TV, I chased this one around a long time, but Don McKinney says that Roger<BR>
S****r does indeed have Seeker, which means that he may also have some of<BR>
the FASA Traveller stuff, since Seeker bought out that line. YMMV.<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net><BR>
> Who officially owns the Seeker copyrights?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:51:23 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
Okay, is this where I can jump in a rip up everyone who ever had anything to<BR>
do with GDW?<BR>
<BR>
Keep the home fires burning ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -Crusty<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com><BR>
><BR>
> << >If I were thinner skinned, I could take offense.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>      Well, if you created the heritical mass that is GURPS Traveller.  >><BR>
><BR>
> I and others.<BR>
><BR>
> Loren Wiseman<BR>
>      GDW Emeritus<BR>
>      SJ Games Emigre<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1628<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1629</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1629<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
Re: More....<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie<BR>
Re: Question, not flame bait<BR>
SJ Games mini's<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
RE: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
standardised tech (was horses)<BR>
Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
T5 (I'm not going to respond to the former title: Re: GURPS vs. T5?)<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
Re: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
Imperial Standards<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: disgusting habits<BR>
Re: free trader<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 12:51:32 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>     Acutally, Kevin Simbieda comes over to my house for a meal & a visit<BR>
> everytime he comes out to Phoenix.  So Iwould have to say, that I know<BR>
him,<BR>
> & I know him quite well.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, that explains it.<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:10:07 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Doug Berry wrote:<BR>
>(Apologies to anyone offended, I do not believe any of the sterotypes I<BR>
>used, but used them to make a point.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
You put that a lot better than I ever could. Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:10:10 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>> Great!  I agree GT and many of its supplements are *really* very<BR>
>> good.  Some folks have objections about some aspects of GURPS and<BR>
>>the GT setting, but that shouldn't get in the way of anyone else<BR>
>> enjoying the game.<BR>
><BR>
>And here we have the first entrant for team two - and a heretic at that!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
And I have to sign up for team two as well. I have CT (and play in a CT<BR>
PBEM) have MT (although I've never had a chance to play in a game), TNE (run<BR>
a PBEM and RL campaign) and G:T and I have to say that they all have their<BR>
strong points.<BR>
<BR>
I get the feeling that a lot of people treat the different editions as<BR>
exclusive, whereas they are really just facets of a greater whole. While I<BR>
have yet to use the GURPS rules to play a Traveller campaign, I have found<BR>
some of the background material (especially the Zhodani and Vargr module)<BR>
extremely useful for my TNE campaign. Similarly, equipment from<BR>
Megatraveller surfaces from time to time in my campains, I use High Guard as<BR>
a convenient way of resolving large-scale starship combat in other systems,<BR>
and find Brilliant Lances wonderful for small-scale space operations. (I'm<BR>
afraid I haven't found much use for T4 yet.)<BR>
<BR>
By using material from each of the different incarnations where it is most<BR>
useful we realise the advantages that are unique to Traveller - the<BR>
advantages created over twenty three years and five editions.<BR>
<BR>
Sure, I feel no particular desire to inform my players that the Rebellion<BR>
was only a dream, so I won't. That's my prerogative as GM. But I'm certainly<BR>
glad I bought the G:T products that I have.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
+++<BR>
</Self-Righteous><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:11:09 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
<BR>
What's wrong with that, I ask?<BR>
<BR>
None of my players are professional actors, nor do they pretend to be. They<BR>
simply want to get together, to entertain and be entertained, and to have a<BR>
good time. Several of my players are "bad roleplayers" by this definition<BR>
(i.e., playing the same type of character over and over), but I have not<BR>
found it overly onerous or disruptive to play. In fact, I have found it has<BR>
made my task as a referee a little easier because I can anticipate in<BR>
advance how they will react when I use any of devices in my 'lil referee's<BR>
bag 'o tricks.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, there is a possibility that I'm missing some sublime level of<BR>
orgasmic roleplaying pleasure because my players aren't "good roleplayers."<BR>
But for some reason, I don't think so.<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 12:23:20 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: More....<BR>
<BR>
>Mr Legion, I understand free speech etc very well. But I will ask you, this<BR>
>once, to please stop hurling random childish abuse around this<BR>
>supposedly-mature forum. I managed to get along with Leroy, and I even<BR>
>managed to keep my promise not to say another word about/to Clif. I ignored<BR>
>the german gentleman who sent me emails ORDERING me to desist from writing<BR>
>for SJG.<BR>
><BR>
>But if you are going to be so deliberately offensive to myself and the<BR>
>others wo wrote/write for SJG on the GT line, then I think it is time you<BR>
>were asked to leave the list.<BR>
<BR>
I second the motion. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:28:04 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
...<BR>
>Also, I'll be visiting an isolated beach, which is the winter home of<BR>
>thousands of penguins.  Tens of thousands of King Penguins.  I'll be<BR>
>wearing a tux.<BR>
<BR>
  You'll have a photographer along, I trust?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:28:23 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie<BR>
<BR>
>A week ago I picked up one of SJGames' newest products, and brought it<BR>
>with me yesterday when my gaming group got together for the day to watch<BR>
>videos. The product: the "Chez Geek" card game. We had so much fun with it,<BR>
>we never actually got around to watching any movies... I know this is way<BR>
>OT, but this card game is a *lot* of fun!<BR>
<BR>
  Hmm, how many crew would a travelling space/soap oper^h^h 1000-Dt tramp<BR>
freighter have? Perhaps they would appreciate the games humour? :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:39:33 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Question, not flame bait<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > On Sun, 2 Jan 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
[snip]<BR>
> > > <groan!> Is *every* discussion of the past year going to be<BR>
> > > recapitulated on the first day of the new year?  <g><BR>
> > <BR>
> > Tempt me not, heretic.<BR>
> <BR>
> Postogeny recapitulates phylogeny.<BR>
<BR>
Which reminds me, y'all, keep an eye out for my porn star debut in a<BR>
soon-forthcoming issue of Philogyny!<BR>
<BR>
> (At least I'm not _wasting_ my time in college.  This time.)<BR>
<BR>
Well thank *GOD* someone is!<BR>
<BR>
To wit, I think I've found the best answer to a question that came up<BR>
recently:  Norris and Santanocheev.<BR>
<BR>
As anyone without severe sexual insecurities will agree, Duke Norris is<BR>
gay; clearly the business with Santanocheev getting the sack reflects that<BR>
he wasn't any good *in* the sack.  The whole thing was nothing but a<BR>
lovers' quarrel; Norris -- relying on the intrinsically corrupt structure<BR>
of Imperial society -- got the upper hand.  The well-disguised paederastic<BR>
involvement of "Rod" Santanocheev merely makes the whole situation all the<BR>
more disgusting.<BR>
<BR>
Alternately or equally, this incident is strong evidence for the Elitist<BR>
Homosexual Agenda at work undermining the combat-readiness of the Third<BR>
Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
I warmly welcome discussion over these *facts* (which is what history is<BR>
all about, not *interpretations*).<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:49:04 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: SJ Games mini's<BR>
<BR>
>From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: GURPS vs T5<BR>
...<BR>
>(Come to think of it, I don't recall SJ Games producing miniatures of any<BR>
>kind, except possibly way back in the days of OGRE.)<BR>
<BR>
  ISTR hearing that they've never done production runs in-house (prototypes,<BR>
perhaps?); their licensed lines have included several (at least three?) OGRE<BR>
iterations, plus Car Wars mini's. It's possible that I've missed some.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:49:38 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>I would like to be able to report that I bought it from my FLGS, except<BR>
>my LGS isn't all that friendly -- it has a reputation for gouging its<BR>
>customers, as it has effectively no local competition. <BR>
<BR>
  Hey! I've heard of that store! - one of the UBC club-members is an<BR>
exile from Edmonton and was telling horror stories...<BR>
<BR>
  Luckily, Warehouse 23 now does mail-order of SJ Games (and BITS, and <BR>
Atlas, etc., I presume) stuff through an associated company from Calgary,<BR>
so Canadian gamers don't have to pay 40% shipping plus GST, PST & a $5<BR>
customs processing charge; it's cheap (to free at $80 US) shipping plus<BR>
7% GST (well, Albertans get to add their PST, but that's zero % <snarl>).<BR>
<BR>
And it was only this summer that I was whining to them about the 40% S&H...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:31:35<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
At 01:51 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Okay, is this where I can jump in a rip up everyone who ever had anything to<BR>
>do with GDW?<BR>
><BR>
>Keep the home fires burning ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Well of course!  It's obvious that anybody's personal perception of the<BR>
world is justification for murder and mayhem.  Worked well enough for Hitler..<BR>
<BR>
(Yes, that is an attempt to Godwin)<BR>
<BR>
Funny that I just saw "The Monsters Are Due On Maple Street" the other<BR>
day...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:49:50 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
Really?  I haven't heard from them.  Of course, if they sent it to my old<BR>
e-mail, that could be why (I REALLY need to change that).  Guess it's time<BR>
to check the old dialup account at slip.net again...<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>1.  What gaming company (run by...whom?) gave Jesse DeGraff the<BR>
>opportunity to do commercial Traveller artwork?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    1. I know that FGU is trying to get in touch with Jesse DeGraff for some<BR>
artwork, but I do not know if any emails have gotten to him.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 19:54:51 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
<BR>
iSteve's two penn'orth:<BR>
<BR>
If you like the GURPS rules, play GURPS.<BR>
If you like any of the Traveller incarnations, play the one you like.<BR>
If you like neither system, use another.<BR>
<BR>
Wishing the employees of a company dead because you don't personally like <BR>
their products is, in my extremely humble opinion, a little too harsh.<BR>
<BR>
iSteve now prepares for the flames.....<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:59:48<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
<BR>
At 01:11 PM 1/2/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>What's wrong with that, I ask?<BR>
<BR>
Nothing.  Nothing at all.<BR>
<BR>
When I was doing the Rocky Horror Picture Show, I played Brad.  For those<BR>
of you not familiar with the film, this invloves running around a theater<BR>
in your underwear and getting called "asshole" a lot.<BR>
<BR>
I did it because it was fun, and I was a good Brad.<BR>
<BR>
If somebody wants to play mighty fighters, let them.  They'll be paladins<BR>
in AD&D, Muscle in CoC, Bricks in Champions, and ex-Army in Traveller.<BR>
Give them GURPS, and they'll design a mighty warrior.<BR>
<BR>
The whole point of the excercise is to have fun.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:08:41 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
Can't the doctor give you weekly gamma-globulin shots?  I was born with a<BR>
rare disease that gave me no immune system at all.  I spent my first few<BR>
years in a controlled environment.  But the Gamma-globulin shots helped keep<BR>
me alive.  Today, my immune system is pretty much normal except for the<BR>
diabetes I have.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 9:02 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 11:53 PM 1/1/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >So what's your status now (Besides "Alive, gloriously", that is)?<BR>
> >And what's your _next_ long-term goal?<BR>
><BR>
> Let's see.. no immune system, wildly varying energy levels, platelet<BR>
levels<BR>
> that make my doctor cry.. Pretty damn good, all things considered.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 12:05:14<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
<BR>
At 07:54 PM 1/2/2000 GMT, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Wishing the employees of a company dead because you don't personally like <BR>
>their products is, in my extremely humble opinion, a little too harsh.<BR>
><BR>
>iSteve now prepares for the flames.....<BR>
<BR>
You can take off that abestous suit, you make perfect sense.<BR>
<BR>
To make it clear.. I despise Palladium games.  I think their rukles are<BR>
awful, munchkin-creating, abberations caused by Kevin Siembeida's inability<BR>
to design his way out of a paper sack.<BR>
<BR>
I find most Rifts players to be munchkins, more concerned with killing more<BR>
and more things with bigger and bigger guns that roleplaying.  Kevin<BR>
Siembedia himself is a jerk, as anybody who has ever posted a webpage or<BR>
message about one of his game syatems has found out.<BR>
<BR>
What do I do about it?  I don't buy his games.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 12:07:19<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
At 03:08 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Can't the doctor give you weekly gamma-globulin shots?  I was born with a<BR>
>rare disease that gave me no immune system at all.  I spent my first few<BR>
>years in a controlled environment.  But the Gamma-globulin shots helped keep<BR>
>me alive.  Today, my immune system is pretty much normal except for the<BR>
>diabetes I have.<BR>
<BR>
It's more thshcok my entire lymphatic system took form the disease and<BR>
chemo, and the loss of my spleen.  I have to rebuild the damn thing.<BR>
Gamma-globulin would just slow down that process.<BR>
<BR>
Besides, I don't have any more working veins in easily accesable places.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 12:11:38 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: standardised tech (was horses)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk><BR>
>Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
...<BR>
>In fact, almost nothing is ever standardised initially unless some<BR>
>company/government has total market domination.<BR>
><BR>
>Ob Trav:  The 3I has had plenty of time for say TL13/14 to have been<BR>
>standardised, but systems developed at the forefront of technology are bound<BR>
>to be incompatible.  Software developed for a linear digital computer is not<BR>
>going to run on an analogue neural network even if you have standardised<BR>
>media.  (Any any Imperial Virtual Machine standard will also become<BR>
>obselete - no doubt initially replaced by several competing 'standards', one<BR>
>of which may well be adopted as a stadard.)<BR>
<BR>
  And whether a given TU (even "OTU"; CT vs MT) has TL F or G (that's<BR>
12 or 13 for all those GURPS weenies! :> ) as cutting edge, development<BR>
is going to be occurring at hundreds of sites - Deneb alone has around<BR>
twenty high-pop TL F+ worlds, IIRC?<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 12:12:12 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
...<BR>
>When did Palladium go multi-genre (as in not the their fantasy rules)? <BR>
>If you count multi-genre as being the same or similar systems for <BR>
>different games (as would be the case with the earlier Palladium stuff) <BR>
>I would have said that Aftermath and its related systems (Bushido and <BR>
>Daredevils) would've been first.<BR>
<BR>
  I don't know for sure about Palladium (I stopped following their crap<BR>
closely a number of years ago) but FGU wasn't multi-genre in the sense <BR>
that you didn't buy "core rules" plus (moderately priced) world book, it<BR>
was just "boxed set of rules, typically with world info edited into each<BR>
book". I still should have kept Bushido, though :(<BR>
<BR>
  GURPS had the advantage that you bought the main book (or boxed set)<BR>
to play basic games with (pretty much enough there to run fantasy - <BR>
heck, Orcslayer was evidence that Man-to-Man was all that you needed<BR>
for that! - probably enough for basic modern stuff), and then clipped<BR>
on whatever rules modules that you _wanted_. SFB could have learned<BR>
from that model...<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:23:28 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
I'm really sorry to hear that Doug.  It's always the decent sorts that seem<BR>
to get all the bad shit in life.  Just goes to show that even though medical<BR>
technology 'seems' wondrous to us, our doctors are still not much better<BR>
than witch doctors dancing around a fire shaking rattles.  My boss's wife<BR>
has cancer too and it's of the malignant variety.  Going in for chemo always<BR>
scares her.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 12:07 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> It's more thshcok my entire lymphatic system took form the disease and<BR>
> chemo, and the loss of my spleen.  I have to rebuild the damn thing.<BR>
> Gamma-globulin would just slow down that process.<BR>
><BR>
> Besides, I don't have any more working veins in easily accesable places.<BR>
> --<BR>
><BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 14:02:42 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: T5 (I'm not going to respond to the former title: Re: GURPS vs. T5?)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/00 at 01:52 PM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>At 11:26 PM 1/1/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>What are the plans for T5?  Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE<BR>
>>canon?  Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
>Well, i love it, and it's not just the paychecks.  :)<BR>
<BR>
>Seriously, the FLGS' I deal with tell me that GT stuff flies off the<BR>
>shelves.  They are constantly on reorder, while products like Who's Who<BR>
>tend to sit.<BR>
<BR>
>Now about T5.. um, move over Eris, I need a seat in the heretic bunker.<BR>
<BR>
It's an equal opportunity bunker, Penguin Boy, so come in and take a<BR>
squat.  I'll put on a pot of gumbo. <g><BR>
<BR>
>Unless T5 is so outstandingly brilliant that it gets heralded as the dawn<BR>
>of a new gaming movement, I think it will fail.  People are getting into<BR>
>Traveller because they know GURPS, and are falling in love with the<BR>
>setting.  It would take an amazing game to convince people to learn a new<BR>
>system to essetially play the same game.<BR>
<BR>
I might think the same thing, Doug, but I'm not going to say it,<BR>
self-fullfilling prophesy and all that.  What I will say is that<BR>
there are those of us that really do prefer a more Traveller way of<BR>
doing things, CharGen and Tasks come to mind, so there is a market<BR>
out there for us. More about that below. <BR>
<BR>
>Then there's the wealth of GURPS material avalible.  I'm running an<BR>
>adventure on a GTL-5 world.  What are the guards armed with?  How about<BR>
>transportation? Grab my copy of G:High Tech and I'm ready to go. <BR>
<BR>
Yep, that's true.  <BR>
<BR>
I think it would be smart for T5 to be compatable with GURPS in a<BR>
number of ways so the GURPS supplements could be used.  I think that<BR>
could be done and still be different in certain key areas making it<BR>
more Travellerisk. <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:16:10 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/1/00 2:58:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
jimpeta@primus.com.au writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  Or the Australian one:<BR>
     "Shut up ya b*stard!" Whack! Whack! (sound of five cell Mag-Lite hitting<BR>
 kidneys)<BR>
 <BR>
 <BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Happens in the states too. Just make sure no one is videotaping it...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:25:19 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
<BR>
I totally agree, Steve.  If you want to wish someone dead, make it the Evil<BR>
Phone Company.  :)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 2:54 PM<BR>
Subject: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> iSteve's two penn'orth:<BR>
><BR>
> If you like the GURPS rules, play GURPS.<BR>
> If you like any of the Traveller incarnations, play the one you like.<BR>
> If you like neither system, use another.<BR>
><BR>
> Wishing the employees of a company dead because you don't personally like<BR>
> their products is, in my extremely humble opinion, a little too harsh.<BR>
><BR>
> iSteve now prepares for the flames.....<BR>
> ______________________________________________________<BR>
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 14:23:37 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: Imperial Standards<BR>
<BR>
> Ob Trav:  The 3I has had plenty of time for say TL13/14 to have been<BR>
> standardised, but systems developed at the forefront of technology are bound<BR>
> to be incompatible.  Software developed for a linear digital computer is not<BR>
> going to run on an analogue neural network even if you have standardised<BR>
> media.  (Any any Imperial Virtual Machine standard will also become<BR>
> obselete - no doubt initially replaced by several competing 'standards', one<BR>
> of which may well be adopted as a stadard.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure how this thread started, but I think the topic of standards<BR>
in the Imperium is an interesting one.  Standards and their associated<BR>
organizations and governing processes have historically fostered very<BR>
interesting political and social conflict and intrigue.<BR>
<BR>
In a setting like the 3I, MegaCorps might want to use their power and<BR>
influence to effect standards for competitive reasons, etc.  There<BR>
certainly could be good material for political/intrigue/business<BR>
oriented adventuring.<BR>
<BR>
Has anyone explored or written any source material for standards<BR>
organizations and governing practices in the 3I?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks much,<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:22:29 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/1/00 1:26:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!! >><BR>
<BR>
Here, Here! I hope you make it to the manned Mars landing (or another 40 <BR>
years, whichever comes second)...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:25:55 -0500<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 9:02 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
> <BR>
> Also, I'll be visiting an isolated beach, which is the winter home of<BR>
> thousands of penguins.  Tens of thousands of King Penguins.  I'll be<BR>
> wearing a tux.<BR>
> -- <BR>
<BR>
And taking plenty of photos.... Right!?<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:01:02 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: disgusting habits<BR>
<BR>
At 19:24 -0500 28/12/99, Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
> > The worst kid food fetish that I have every had to interrupt was<BR>
> > a child who found his deodorant stick tasty. Right in class, he was<BR>
> > taking bites out of that nasty thing<BR>
> ><BR>
>Isn't it poisonous?<BR>
<BR>
Probably not (remember that it goes into intimate contact with the <BR>
skin and that could be broken). Now, it may not taste nice and may <BR>
make the kid sick, but not poisonous in the cyanide sense.<BR>
<BR>
They're mainly alcohol base (sometimes water but that needs <BR>
preservative) combined with waxes and powders like talc. Plus <BR>
whatever the special ingredient (essence of bat) and active is.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:03:05 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: free trader<BR>
<BR>
At 21:43 -0500 28/12/99, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> >>Then I tried modifying the standard blueprint to show the modifications.<BR>
> >Well, I discovered that the standard blueprint is about twice the size it<BR>
> >should be. I'm assuming that two deckplan squares is one displacement<BR>
> >ton, so the free trader should have about 400 squares. The blueprint I'm<BR>
> >using for a template has at least twice that many.<BR>
><BR>
>Could it be possible that the deckplans you are looking at are 4<BR>
>squares per dton rather than 2 squares?  That's they way I draw<BR>
>them, each square is 1x1x3.5 m for the 14 m3 dton, or 1x1x3.375 for<BR>
>MT/CT dtons.<BR>
<BR>
Aren't the old Far Trader blueprints wrong and show a 400dt ship, not <BR>
200dt? ISTR it's a CT mistake that propagated through editions.<BR>
<BR>
Not sure about the Beowulf though...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1629<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1630<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Chow-chow-chow back on topic!<BR>
re:  Common Law<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
re: free trader<BR>
Re: graphics<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: Review: The Naked God by Peter F Hamilton<BR>
Re: Why use .jpg?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: OT Gunbunny notice<BR>
re: Why use .jpg?<BR>
Re: Sac'to? (Was Re: SF Trav game)<BR>
Re: 3I Sports<BR>
Re: Sac'to? (Was Re: SF Trav game)<BR>
Re: Sac'to? (Was Re: SF Trav game)<BR>
Re: 3I Sports<BR>
Re: Hiding education :was Geographical idiocy<BR>
OS/2 speed was Re: Drawing Program<BR>
RE: 3I Sports<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1627<BR>
Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
games design<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:04:40 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Chow-chow-chow back on topic!<BR>
<BR>
At 21:43 -0500 28/12/99, "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au> wrote:<BR>
>environment, eating grass, scats and so on. On top of that, tin foods are<BR>
>90% water, that's the most expensive glass of water you'll buy today.<BR>
<BR>
Liquid detergents often have similar proportions of water. But <BR>
they're less edible ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:11:37 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Common Law<BR>
<BR>
At 23:15 -0500 28/12/99, Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
> >    ObTrav: The difference between statutory law and<BR>
><BR>
>The law of the system you're travelling to is<BR>
>something to consider.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe you guys and gals could put your heads together and come up <BR>
with a system for rating the intrusiveness of law on Imperial <BR>
planets. You could rate it on the hex scale 0-F for example.<BR>
<BR>
Why don't you tie it to useful stuff like, say, the restrictions on <BR>
guns <controversial here on TML> and the amount of harassment <BR>
foreigners get?<BR>
<BR>
Do you reckon we could do it?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<g><BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:21:17 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
At 3:22 -0500 29/12/99, "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:<BR>
>However, commonly available vector formats are the Corel Draw Format (.cdf),<BR>
>the Windows Metafile Format (.wmf) and the AutoCad format. (.dxf ?)<BR>
<BR>
Autocad is *.dwg<BR>
<BR>
DXF is a drawing exchange format and was developed by the Autocad <BR>
people IIRC, and it is a vector format.<BR>
<BR>
Others: *.GEM (GEM Metafile), *.PDF (Portable Document Format), *.ai <BR>
(Adobe illustrator), *.EPS (Encapsulated Postscript), *.PICT (Apple <BR>
vector and bitmap format).<BR>
<BR>
I'd rate any of the last three over wmf and dxf.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:31:28 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: free trader<BR>
<BR>
At 14:31 -0500 29/12/99, Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> wrote:<BR>
>Good point. I shouldn't have used the word 'standard'. I got the<BR>
>blueprint from somebody's web site, but it was so long ago I don't<BR>
>remember which site. I have the file as a GIF, if anyone's interested.<BR>
<BR>
ISTR that there is a decent PDF version of the Far Trader and of most <BR>
of the Traveller small craft on the Missouri Archive pages.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:40:14 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: graphics<BR>
<BR>
At 16:50 -0500 29/12/99, Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com> wrote:<BR>
>William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
> > .JPG was, at least in early implementations, primarily for scanned files.<BR>
> > Almost every scanning program I've encountered either uses TIFF (.TIF) or<BR>
> > uncompressed .JPG.<BR>
><BR>
>.JPG wasn't specifically conceived for scans; it was designed for any<BR>
>purpose where 24-bit color was desired, but lossy compression was<BR>
>needed.<BR>
<BR>
It was initially developed for photographs and continuous tone <BR>
images. The clue is in the name (JPEG) which comes from Joint <BR>
Photographic Experts Group. So William is actually correct in that it <BR>
was developed as a way to handle scanned photographs in a digital age.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:52:16 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
At 2:11 -0500 30/12/99, Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net> wrote:<BR>
>Even after Commodore died in the US, I think either them or a German firm<BR>
>was making Amigas in Europe.  Gateway purchased the whole facility or so I<BR>
>was lead to believe.  The truth being that they probably wanted the<BR>
>manufactoring capalities, but<BR>
>had to get the Amiga to get the goods<BR>
><BR>
>Just another Amiga rumor  :)<BR>
<BR>
Escom bought them. Problem was that they didn't get A1200 <BR>
manufacturing restarted - there was a big demand in the UK at he <BR>
time, but they missed two Christmases and then the platform was dead <BR>
because the PSX took the market.<BR>
<BR>
Both Atari and Commodore failed to realise that their competition <BR>
wasn't the PC or Mac - rather it was the Playstation and other <BR>
consoles. They cut the bottom out of the market.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:42:50 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Review: The Naked God by Peter F Hamilton<BR>
<BR>
At 16:50 -0500 29/12/99, "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I thought it came out in October in the UK?<BR>
<BR>
End of Oct? I was travelling in Europe for most of November so didn't <BR>
see it then.<BR>
<BR>
>A word of note. If you are a UK reader, visit Peter F. Hamilton's official<BR>
>website to read a small section that was cut from your versions. Its in the<BR>
>US version and he wanted everyone to get to read it.<BR>
<BR>
Have you the URL?<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:53:21 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why use .jpg?<BR>
<BR>
At 2:11 -0500 30/12/99, "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>Corel 8 will save .pdf format. I'm having problems trying to edit existing<BR>
>.pdf's though.<BR>
<BR>
The author can lock them down so you need a password. Illustrator <BR>
usually handles them okay.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 12:41:16 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
...<BR>
>If you look at Legate's home page, you'll find a ton of links and graphics<BR>
>proclaiming his love for the Palladium system and its games, particularly<BR>
>Macross. Not only is Palladium the worst RPG rules system I've ever come<BR>
>across, I've found that its games, and in particular Rifts and Macross,<BR>
>are particularly popular with munchkins... <BR>
<BR>
  I've seen a worse game (some one book wonder about ninjas), but I'm not<BR>
entirely sure that it was meant to be an RPG, or even seriously as a game.<BR>
<BR>
  One thing at least that can be said for Palladium is that their production<BR>
values are (at least superficially - we won't mention the content value of<BR>
the rules and descriptive text) fairly good, unlike the sort of stuff that<BR>
issued back in the days of yore from places like Group One or Judges Guild<BR>
(although to be fair desk-top publishing s/w is a big issue - almost anyone<BR>
can make their garbage look quite pretty whether it's just html or hardcopy;<BR>
come to think of it, that explains a lot...)<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:21:52 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Gunbunny notice<BR>
<BR>
At 15:28 -0500 30/12/99, Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net> wrote:<BR>
>Pleased?  Pissed is more like it.  According to Colt's press release they<BR>
>will cease handgun sales to the public if they acquire HK.  I wish BAE<BR>
>would tell the Iraqi scumbag that owns Colt's what the Belgian's told him<BR>
>when he tried to snatch FN...Get lost and take that nag you rode in on with<BR>
>you.<BR>
<BR>
The UK press release says they've already stopped making the .45?<BR>
><BR>
>And to think, Colt's just laid off 200+ employees because they we're so far<BR>
>in debt...<BR>
><BR>
>Sorry about the rant...<BR>
<BR>
I understand. In the UK a couple of years back an overseas ordnance <BR>
manufacturer beat the UK ( BAESystems' Royal Ordnance) to win a shell <BR>
contract. The civil servant  responsible for the contract was later <BR>
charged for corruption (having taken a bribe) and convicted. The <BR>
contract stood and Royal Ordnance shut down a factory IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:07:14 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Why use .jpg?<BR>
<BR>
At 2:11 -0500 30/12/99, "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <BR>
<a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote:<BR>
> > To be honest, Acrobat PDF is the best format to ensure accuracy.<BR>
> > Downside is that you need Illustrator or Photoshop(?) to edit the<BR>
> > resulting file.<BR>
><BR>
>I've always used Exchange to edit pdf's. I know most good dtp packages<BR>
>can create pdf now, but AFAIK only Exchange can actually edit them.<BR>
<BR>
Illustrator will edit (but isn't DTP). ISTR that InDesign <BR>
(Pagemaker's sequel) uses PDF as its native format so there may be a <BR>
DTP package that can edit now.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:04:17 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sac'to? (Was Re: SF Trav game)<BR>
<BR>
"Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net> wrote<BR>
>Already grabbed the adventure Dom, thanks. I am going to contact a few guys<BR>
>here that I know played Traveller in another life and the few TML'rs in the<BR>
>area. When I get that done I will have an idea of how many, when and where.<BR>
>I'm hoping to get about 6-10 players and one GM in a cluster sometime during<BR>
>the 3 days of the con. If that happens I will give you a yell about some<BR>
>material to take to the con. What a guy you are to offer! Thanks again.<BR>
<BR>
All the BITS adventures are designed for 6 characters...<BR>
<BR>
Bear in mind BITS stands for 'British Isles Traveller Support' and <BR>
the original set up was for cons and support material, contacts <BR>
between groups etc. Mike Peters once floated setting up a NATS to do <BR>
a similar role but sadly it came to naught.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:54:24 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 3I Sports<BR>
<BR>
At 2:11 -0500 30/12/99, "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> >Do you mean 'Edge of Darkness', the BBC TV series about illicit<BR>
> >plutonium production by a formerly state owned nuclear fuel company<BR>
> >bought by US venture capital?<BR>
>Now, I wonder why you remember that?<BR>
<BR>
Where are you glowing with this line of questioning?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:57:02 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sac'to? (Was Re: SF Trav game)<BR>
<BR>
At 2:11 -0500 30/12/99, "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> >There is a con adventure on the BITS website at the moment....<BR>
> >http://www.bits.org.uk/ and it will be disappearing after 01/01/2000<BR>
><BR>
>We're going to get this one in the next BITS newsletter, aren't we?<BR>
><BR>
>If not, then I'll run over and download it before it goes.<BR>
<BR>
In theory. But if you snag the pdf from the site you can always <BR>
re-print it in the future ;-)<BR>
<BR>
It'll probably disappear around Tuesday as I've still recovering from <BR>
a trip to London for the Y2k rollover.<BR>
<BR>
Happy Y2k all....<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:58:54 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sac'to? (Was Re: SF Trav game)<BR>
<BR>
At 2:11 -0500 30/12/99, "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com> wrote:<BR>
> > There is a con adventure on the BITS website at the moment....<BR>
> > http://www.bits.org.uk/ and it will be disappearing after 01/01/2000<BR>
> ><BR>
>Hummm! Dom I hope yur referring to the fact that your going to take it down<BR>
>on the first, and not that the (hopefully) mythical Y2K bug will help.<BR>
><BR>
>Mike (pandering to the alarmists in their bomb shelters crowd)<BR>
<BR>
Grin.<BR>
<BR>
Yep, we're going to take it down deliberately, as it's a special <BR>
Christmas/Y2k present.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:00:53 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 3I Sports<BR>
<BR>
At 2:11 -0500 30/12/99, "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com> wrote:<BR>
> > At 22:35 -0500 23/12/99, Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:<BR>
> > >Damn, now you've got me free associating old UK TV Shows now, anyone<BR>
> > >remember "Heart of Darkness"  ? And the "sequel" about BSE, which came out<BR>
> > >before the big BSE scare ?<BR>
> > Do you mean 'Edge of Darkness', the BBC TV series about illicit<BR>
> > plutonium production by a formerly state owned nuclear fuel company<BR>
> > bought by US venture capital?<BR>
>'Heart of Darkness' was a Joseph Conrad story that got adapted for <BR>
>the script of 'Apocalypse Now'.<BR>
<BR>
I know. But I can't remember a BBC or ITV series of 'Heart of <BR>
Darkness'; 'Edge of Darkness' seemed closer to the description above. <BR>
There was also a bioengineering series called 'Chimera'.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:10:16 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hiding education :was Geographical idiocy<BR>
<BR>
At 6:07 -0500 30/12/99, "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net> wrote:<BR>
> > >example, Kirsten and I were horrified to discover that we both remember<BR>
>the<BR>
> > >words to the Dukes of Hazzard theme.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > What about 'the Fall Guy'?<BR>
><BR>
>One of my favorites was _Suicide is Painless_ (the theme<BR>
>song from _M*A*S*H_).<BR>
<BR>
Other good ones: 'It's the End of the World as We Know it....', <BR>
'There may be trouble ahead...'...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:12:40 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: OS/2 speed was Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
At 6:07 -0500 30/12/99, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
> > Calling it OS/2 'Warp' made me laugh. Compared to Win3.1x it was slow<BR>
> > and memory heavy.<BR>
><BR>
>Seems to work ok here. And unlike Win 3.1, when a Windows app crashed,<BR>
>I could just close that window and open another one. Not even the<BR>
>Current* version of Windows can do that (I know, I've had to restart 5<BR>
>times just today when apps hit things like "illegal opcode")<BR>
<BR>
My comments were based on the experience of OS/2 and Win 3.1.x <BR>
installed on two identical Compaq 486's when I used to sell machines. <BR>
However, it amy have moved on from then...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:32:52 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 3I Sports<BR>
<BR>
At 15:28 -0500 30/12/99, "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> >Do you mean 'Edge of Darkness', the BBC TV series about illicit<BR>
>> >plutonium production by a formerly state owned nuclear fuel company<BR>
>> >bought by US venture capital?<BR>
>>Now, I wonder why you remember that?<BR>
>>NB<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Maybe, like me, he was so impressed by the series that he kept the<BR>
>videotapes.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I did. But Nick also knows I used to work for BNFL....<BR>
<BR>
Dom (Just about to reach New Year's Eve's Digests)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:41:13 -0500<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 9:09 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:59 PM 1/1/2000 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >I as well will push that button with an additional acusatory statement<BR>
from<BR>
> >my experiences: GURPS players tend to play the same character OVER AND<BR>
> >OVER, in only slight variations by setting...<BR>
><BR>
> Some people do that.  Others take the chance to explore.  The last G:Magic<BR>
> game I played I was a female Elloweyen mage.  Quite a change for me, and<BR>
an<BR>
> interesting character.<BR>
><BR>
> One of my roommates plays the same character no matter what the system.<BR>
> Doesn't matter what the dice say, you are going to get Gregor.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Let's see. Back when the Fantasy Trip was first released the game group I<BR>
was in decided to do a multi - GM world, with each Ref  building on a<BR>
section on a "shared universe". This meant that each of us could play, the<BR>
GMing duties rotating weekly. Well each of us also had to create characters<BR>
for the others' games. One fellow generated FIVE characters, each remarkably<BR>
alike stat-wise... also amazingly each was named "George". He had a blast<BR>
playing 5 clones, in variuous worlds and adventures for over a year.<BR>
<BR>
Who cares how the PC are generated, and why force some one to fit YOUR idea<BR>
of fun and be forced to play a character he/she isn't comfortable with!? The<BR>
idea is to have FUN, and if playing the same character in every game help<BR>
achieve that the what the heck!<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 14:46:35 -0600<BR>
From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1627<BR>
<BR>
on 1/2/00 11:11 AM, Traveller-digest at<BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:02:10<BR>
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
> <BR>
> At 11:53 PM 1/1/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>> So what's your status now (Besides "Alive, gloriously", that is)?<BR>
>> And what's your _next_ long-term goal?<BR>
> <BR>
> Let's see.. no immune system, wildly varying energy levels, platelet levels<BR>
> that make my doctor cry.. Pretty damn good, all things considered.<BR>
> <BR>
> My next goal?  Other than seeing ACQ and GF in print?  Y'all are going to<BR>
> laugh...<BR>
> <BR>
> In 2002 Kirsten and I are travelling to South Africa for the total eclipse.<BR>
> Among other things, I'll be visiting Ladysmith (where my great-grandfather<BR>
> was one of the besieged troops).<BR>
<BR>
Cool!<BR>
<BR>
> Also, I'll be visiting an isolated beach, which is the winter home of<BR>
> thousands of penguins.  Tens of thousands of King Penguins.  I'll be<BR>
> wearing a tux.<BR>
<BR>
Argh...  3.0 from me... ! "The penguin will be with you, always." Jedi-Tux<BR>
says.<BR>
<BR>
> - -- <BR>
> <BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
> <BR>
> "Pardon me, excuse me, Giant vampiric flightless winged<BR>
> squirrel, coming through.."  -Tim the Paladin, "Yamara"<BR>
> <BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
And coming right after that image above, the .sig gets a +1<BR>
<BR>
William<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Live without fear; your Creator loves you     | William Barnett-Lewis<BR>
as a mother. Go in peace to follow the good   | mailto://wlewis@mailbag.com<BR>
road and may God's blessing be with           |<BR>
you always.                                   |<BR>
St. Claire                                    |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:58:30 -0600<BR>
From: "Bont" <felix@felixcafe.com><BR>
Subject: Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:11 PM 1/2/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
> >What's wrong with that, I ask?<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Nothing AFAIK.<BR>
<BR>
Most of the gamers I play with have a special type they like to play.  <BR>
One likes paladins, one likes thieves, one likes playing a doctor, one <BR>
likes playing engineers.<BR>
<BR>
I personally like playing Beast Masters.  But when I can't, I play a <BR>
fighter (armsman) with an affinity to animals.<BR>
<BR>
In my SF games, said about me, "Tom doesn't build characters.  He <BR>
builds Weapon Platforms."  But I don't mind it.  And I my GMs don't <BR>
mind it either.<BR>
<BR>
If you enjoy the game and your players enjoy the game, I wouldn't <BR>
worry about it.<BR>
<BR>
What brought this on?<BR>
- - - -<BR>
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)<BR>
<BR>
- - Encrypt your messages!<BR>
  That way only the government knows what you wrote!<BR>
<BR>
- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!<BR>
<BR>
- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)<BR>
<BR>
- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto<BR>
<BR>
- - Help Stop Forest Fires.  Outlaw Matches.<BR>
<BR>
Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at<BR>
     http://www.felixcafe.com/<BR>
<BR>
- - - -<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 16:03:49 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
No offense taken, I have been known for some very irreverent humor a time or<BR>
two.  As to being a Jew, according to stereotype I'm a failure.  I've always<BR>
been deep in debt and sometimes it seems I'll never see the light of day.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, I am also a Star Trek fan.  However my parents live 3,137 miles away.<BR>
:)  As for being a virgin..I'll never tell...<snickerings in Dark Korners><BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 9:40 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> And all those Jews own the banks, and are greedy.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> You're a Star trek fan?  Eeww..That means you are an overweight smelly<BR>
> virgin who still lives in his parents' house, right?<BR>
><BR>
> (Apologies to anyone offended, I do not believe any of the sterotypes I<BR>
> used, but used them to make a point.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 13:00:16 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: games design<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
...<BR>
>To make it clear.. I despise Palladium games.  I think their rukles are<BR>
>awful, munchkin-creating, abberations caused by Kevin Siembeida's inability<BR>
>to design his way out of a paper sack.<BR>
<BR>
  ISTR that when I played it was clearly a hackneyed rip-off of AD&D (as<BR>
was everything by TSR - hey, "Alternity" means that they're _still_ doing <BR>
it!), with the munchk^h^h players exercising their rules-lawyering skills<BR>
by looking for which OCC was most broken in the available rules book. I<BR>
assume that later editions fixed these problems, yes?<BR>
<BR>
>I find most Rifts players to be munchkins, more concerned with killing more<BR>
>and more things with bigger and bigger guns that roleplaying.  Kevin<BR>
>Siembedia himself is a jerk, as anybody who has ever posted a webpage or<BR>
>message about one of his game syatems has found out.<BR>
<BR>
  Well, if designing a game universe primarily for munchkins is a good<BR>
business case, what the hell - plus it keeps them away from the rest of<BR>
us. Not that the classic "PC's in battldress" was anything similar :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 15:05:15 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
Michael Peters wrote:<BR>
> Let's see. Back when the Fantasy Trip was first released the game group I<BR>
> was in decided to do a multi - GM world, with each Ref  building on a<BR>
> section on a "shared universe". This meant that each of us could play, the<BR>
> GMing duties rotating weekly.<BR>
<BR>
My regular gaming crew does this with many games including Traveller<BR>
(CoC is another game that works well with multiple GMs).  One person is<BR>
developing the Solomoni Rim (over the entire timeline), one is<BR>
developing the Marches, and I take care of the rest of the Imperium and<BR>
coordinate the timeline.  A great side effect is that we (the GMs) can<BR>
have interesting, non-game time discussions about the setting, have a<BR>
great exchange of ideas, and plan adventures that play off one another. <BR>
I find being the only "master of the universe" for any game setting is<BR>
essentially lonely especially since characters NEVER get to experience<BR>
the full detail of the setting.  Shared GMing is excellent remedy for<BR>
this problem.  I HIGHLY recommend it!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Who cares how the PC are generated, and why force some one to fit YOUR idea<BR>
> of fun and be forced to play a character he/she isn't comfortable with!? The<BR>
> idea is to have FUN, and if playing the same character in every game help<BR>
> achieve that the what the heck!<BR>
<BR>
I agree fun is the key.  No one should be made to feel uncomfortable<BR>
EVER in a gaming session.  I just feel very lucky that I'm part of a<BR>
gaming crew where everyone loves to dive into any kind of character.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1630<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1631</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1631<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: More....<BR>
Re: not really "GURPS vs T5?" anymore<BR>
Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: games design<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 12:56:14<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
At 03:25 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>And taking plenty of photos.... Right!?<BR>
<BR>
Oh, yes... white tie, tails, top hat, heavy boots (guano don'tcha know) and<BR>
a martini glass.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:36:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>>    Palldium<BR>
><BR>
>!  Try to start a Rifts website.  You'll have lots of interaction with<BR>
>Kevin.  and his lawyers.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    *Buzz* Wrong answer Doug.  I already have a Macross II one.  You might<BR>
want to check out the URL in the sig sometimes, Doug.  And, there are a lot<BR>
of Rifts Websites out there.  So there are little or no problems.  And, we<BR>
have a lot better relationship with Palladium, than we do with SJ.<BR>
<BR>
>>    1. I know that FGU is trying to get in touch with Jesse DeGraff for<BR>
some<BR>
>>artwork, but I do not know if any emails have gotten to him.<BR>
><BR>
>*Buzz*  Wrong, searching out an established artist is not the same thing as<BR>
>giving a newbie a big break.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    *Buzz* Wrong.  I live in Phoenix, AZ.  HOME OF FGU.  Waterloo games, a<BR>
LGS, is the home of FGU, & I know the owners of FGU, & gave them the URL of<BR>
Jesse's web-site about a year & a half ago, when they were going to bring up<BR>
Space Opera to the public again, they only needed a few good artists, & I<BR>
told them about Jesse.  They looked at his web-site & liked the artwork &<BR>
emailed him, he never returned the email.<BR>
    Jesse, check your backlog of email, I know they sent you one.  From<BR>
waterloo.com.<BR>
<BR>
>>    Orge & TFT were cool, but GURPS is just a way to make more & more<BR>
money,<BR>
>>not a contributribution to the art of gaming.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Wait a minute!  You mean a *businessman* is out to make money!!  How DARE<BR>
he!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    This comming from a man living in Berkley.  KS, has something to do with<BR>
everything that comes out of Palladium.<BR>
<BR>
>If gaming is an art, the Siembedia is Jackson Pollock.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    If gaming is an art, then KS is Rembrant, SJ is Jackson Pollock.<BR>
    Look Doug, two things, congrats about the cancer thing, us cancer<BR>
survivors have to stick together, second, do not try & change my mind about<BR>
SJ, it will not happen.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:41:51 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
From: Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca><BR>
<BR>
>>Palldium, Last Unicorn Games, Leading Edge Games, Fantasy Games Unlimited.<BR>
><BR>
>  ISTR one TML'er who had a "Palladium" page on his site, just to attract<BR>
>threatening e-mails from said company; there is, after all, an element of<BR>
>that name, so it was all perfectly innocent :)  I have to wonder if there<BR>
>was a good reason for feeling that KS&Co had that coming to them?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Could it be, because he did not put this on his page?<BR>
<BR>
"Copyright 1983, 1987, 1988, 1990 Kevin Siembieda; Copyright 1995 Palladium<BR>
Books(R), All rights reserved world wide. No part of this work may be<BR>
reproduced in part or whole, in any form or by any means, without permission<BR>
from the publisher. All incidents, situations, institutions, governments and<BR>
people are fictional and any similarity to characters or persons living or<BR>
dead is strictly coincidental.<BR>
<BR>
Rifts(R), Palladium Books(R), Mechanoids(R), The Mechanoid Invasion(R),<BR>
Rifts(R), Megaverse(R), RECON(R), and After the Bomb(R) are registered<BR>
trademarks owned and licensed by Kevin Siembieda and Palladium Books, Inc.<BR>
<BR>
Nightspawn(TM), Nightlands(TM), Heroes Unlimited(TM), Villains<BR>
Unlimited(TM), Beyond the Supernatural(TM), Boxed Nightmares(TM), Ninjas &<BR>
Superspies(TM), Mystic China(TM), Palladium Fantasy RPG(TM), Triax(TM),<BR>
Mindwerks(TM), Vampire Kingdoms(TM), The Juicer Uprising(TM), Phase<BR>
World(TM), Wormwood(TM), Psyscape(TM), Mega-Damage(TM), S.D.C.(TM),<BR>
I.S.P.(TM), P.P.E.(TM), SAMAS(TM), Splugorth(TM), Cyber-Knight(TM), Glitter<BR>
Boy(TM), Juicer(TM), Mind Melter(TM), Psi-Stalker(TM), Coalition States(TM),<BR>
Northern Gun(TM), Erin Tarn(TM), Naruni(TM),Cyber-Knight(TM), Coalition<BR>
States(TM), and Triax(TM) are trademarks owned and licensed by Kevin<BR>
Siembieda and Palladium Books, Inc."<BR>
<BR>
    And, you might want to check out my site, I am a TMLer & I HAVE A<BR>
PALLADIUM WEB-SITE, OR ARE YOU TOO MORONIC TO EVEN LOOK?<BR>
<BR>
>  IMHO, Palladium publishes second rate filler, but that doesn't warrant<BR>
>further comments about their business practices, character, or complete<BR>
>disdain for editing and the English language.<BR>
<BR>
    Sorta the same way I feel about GURPS?<BR>
<BR>
>>    Orge & TFT were cool, but GURPS is just a way to make more & more<BR>
money,<BR>
>>not a contributribution to the art of gaming.<BR>
><BR>
>  Were you by any chance conscious when Man-to-Man/GURPS first came out?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Yes, I was.<BR>
<BR>
>  I assume that there's a specific business practice that offends you, as<BR>
>a way to "make more & more money" is generally called _b-u-s-i-n-e-s-s_,<BR>
>and some of your favourite game companies may in fact be making money. I<BR>
>also can't help but wonder if you actually see the irony in condemning<BR>
>GURPS for its multi-genre support (where they publish products of an over-<BR>
>all high level of quality for a variety of different gamers) as opposed to<BR>
>the Palladium programme of endless mediocre drivel*; admittedly, the rules<BR>
>to the Palladium systems - as well thought out and written as they are -<BR>
>would never permit, let alone encourage, munchkinism...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Actually, I have run, I will run Palladium - Traveller.  I enjoy the<BR>
Palladium System, the FIRST Multi-Genre System out there, & you might want<BR>
to relook at Palladium, it is in manyways better & more fun than GURPS.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:43:33 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Really?  I haven't heard from them.  Of course, if they sent it to my old<BR>
>e-mail, that could be why (I REALLY need to change that).  Guess it's time<BR>
>to check the old dialup account at slip.net again...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Jesse, it might be.  I know that they sent an email to you, while I was<BR>
in the store.  I had recommended you to them because of the quality of your<BR>
artwork, to tell you the truth, your artwork would be the only reason I<BR>
bought anything for GURPS - Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:48:06 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: More....<BR>
<BR>
From: MJ Dougherty <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
>Mr Legion, I understand free speech etc very well. But I will ask you, this<BR>
>once, to please stop hurling random childish abuse around this<BR>
>supposedly-mature forum. I managed to get along with Leroy, and I even<BR>
>managed to keep my promise not to say another word about/to Clif. I ignored<BR>
>the german gentleman who sent me emails ORDERING me to desist from writing<BR>
>for SJG.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I really do not care one way or the other if you write for SJG, but it<BR>
is not Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
>But if you are going to be so deliberately offensive to myself and the<BR>
>others wo wrote/write for SJG on the GT line, then I think it is time you<BR>
>were asked to leave the list.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Personally I really do not care what you think, or want.  I do not like<BR>
SJ, SJG, GURPS, or alot of other shit he has created.  I do not think that<BR>
GT is Traveller, but a bastard creation.  I have a right to think the way I<BR>
want to think, if you do not like it, then maybe you should leave the list.<BR>
<BR>
>I find you most offensive, not to mention childish.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    At least I have offended you, personally, I really do not care, as if<BR>
this is the state of Traveller, I suggest we split the TML.  One list of<BR>
CT/MT/T4 players, one list for TNE players, & one list for GT players.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:50:36 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: not really "GURPS vs T5?" anymore<BR>
<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com <GypsyComet@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
>>    And, you forgot the fact that GURPS players will knife you over a<BR>
GURPS<BR>
>>book.  I hate them because of their additude towards the rest of the<BR>
gamers<BR>
>>out there.  I hate M:tG because they keep changing the rules to sell more<BR>
>>cards, & I hate Pokemon because of the knifings there as well.<BR>
<BR>
> That is one poisonous community of gamers you've got there, Legate. All I<BR>
>can say (and WILL say, as this is way too OT to continue) is that the rest<BR>
of<BR>
>the gaming world is not (quite) as bad as your experiences indicate.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    GC, I have been a gamer for about 22 years, & the only poisonous<BR>
community of gamers I have run across are the GURPS players, & now the<BR>
Pokemon Players.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:53:01 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
<BR>
From: Joseph R. Dietrich <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>What's wrong with that, I ask?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Nothing.  Nothing at all.<BR>
<BR>
>None of my players are professional actors, nor do they pretend to be. They<BR>
>simply want to get together, to entertain and be entertained, and to have a<BR>
>good time. Several of my players are "bad roleplayers" by this definition<BR>
>(i.e., playing the same type of character over and over), but I have not<BR>
>found it overly onerous or disruptive to play. In fact, I have found it has<BR>
>made my task as a referee a little easier because I can anticipate in<BR>
>advance how they will react when I use any of devices in my 'lil referee's<BR>
>bag 'o tricks.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    True, if you know how they will react, you can then fudge a bit.  If<BR>
they do not like combat & the adventure has 20 guards armed with FGMP-15s<BR>
then you change it to 10 guards armed with SMGs, but if they do like combat,<BR>
& are well armed then you change it to 40 guards.<BR>
<BR>
>Of course, there is a possibility that I'm missing some sublime level of<BR>
>orgasmic roleplaying pleasure because my players aren't "good roleplayers."<BR>
>But for some reason, I don't think so.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Nah, no one is a perfect roleplayers, but some are better than others.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:57:22 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com <GDWGAMES@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><< >If I were thinner skinned, I could take offense.<BR>
<BR>
>     Well, if you created the heritical mass that is GURPS Traveller.  >><BR>
><BR>
>I and others.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I have to say, Loren, that GDW's Traveller was one of the best games I<BR>
have ever played.  I loved it, I loved the feeling about how I could<BR>
recreate anything I wanted to with it.  From the Rebel Alliance to the<BR>
Federation to the ICC to the CoDo.<BR>
    When you went to SJG instead of producing a better T4, it really hurt,<BR>
to have one of my heros betray what he had created.<BR>
<BR>
>Loren Wiseman<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:58:40 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
From: Swordy (Colin Michael) <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Okay, is this where I can jump in a rip up everyone who ever had anything<BR>
to<BR>
>do with GDW?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    GDW was the perfect game company.  They cared about their players, they<BR>
took time to listen & explain Traveller to many young gamers, they also were<BR>
very nice people.  So do not attack GDW.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:04:20 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
<BR>
From: MJ Dougherty <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>1. Thank you for the personal insult, whoever you were. I saw a quote and<BR>
>didn't bother to look up the original poster's identity. But anyway; I<BR>
>assume that my non-GURPS Traveller material is also worthless, since I had<BR>
>the gall to write for SJG?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    To me, yes.  To me, it is not Canon, as it is not CT/MT/TNE/T4.<BR>
<BR>
>2. I feel the need to say this about SJG: They Pay Their Freelancers. Those<BR>
>of us who work in the industry respect that very highly. Mr Jackson has<BR>
>dealt fairly and courteously with me at all times, even when I've bothered<BR>
>him with stupid questions. The Line Editor isn't a bad sort, either (Wry<BR>
>grin).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    And, so does Palladium & LUG.  Most game companies tend to pay their<BR>
freelancers.  And, so has KS dealt with me fairly & courteously at all<BR>
times, even when he was a freelancer & the stockboy from Judge's Guild would<BR>
ask him a lot of stupid questions.  Later on, he helped that stupid stockboy<BR>
polish up his Master's Thesis in Computer Engineering, & after that he took<BR>
some of that stupid stockboys ideas & placed them into his games.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:00:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>LL, you are free to hate SJG.  You can mutter your life away about what a<BR>
>bad, bad man he is.  You have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to imply that he or<BR>
>anybody else should be physically harmed.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    You know I can say I wish for it to happen, I do not want it to happen.<BR>
I do not want people to be hurt, but I can think about it.<BR>
<BR>
>That is a crime if you do it loud enough.  Do you understand that?  If you<BR>
>say the SJG should be burned to the ground, they can come after you for<BR>
>making terrorist threats.  This is the same company that took own the<BR>
>Secret Service and won.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Because the Secret Service was wrong.  As for SJG being burned down to<BR>
the ground, I do not want that, as the economic disruption would be great.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 16:17:27 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
<BR>
Nothing is totally useless, unless you are talking about Microsoft Windows.<BR>
:)  I buy all sorts of games and although I am a die-hard CT person, I'll<BR>
buy any other products for Traveller for their idea potential.  So the<BR>
effort IMHO is not wasted.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 4:04 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> From: MJ Dougherty <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> >1. Thank you for the personal insult, whoever you were. I saw a quote and<BR>
> >didn't bother to look up the original poster's identity. But anyway; I<BR>
> >assume that my non-GURPS Traveller material is also worthless, since I<BR>
had<BR>
> >the gall to write for SJG?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 16:22:12 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
Oh no!  Martini glass with ice clinking and a tuxedo?  Doug has been taken<BR>
over by Dean Martin!!!<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 12:56 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 03:25 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >And taking plenty of photos.... Right!?<BR>
><BR>
> Oh, yes... white tie, tails, top hat, heavy boots (guano don'tcha know)<BR>
and<BR>
> a martini glass.<BR>
> --<BR>
><BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:16:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
From: Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
>>Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
>...<BR>
>>If you look at Legate's home page, you'll find a ton of links and graphics<BR>
>>proclaiming his love for the Palladium system and its games, particularly<BR>
>>Macross. Not only is Palladium the worst RPG rules system I've ever come<BR>
>>across, I've found that its games, and in particular Rifts and Macross,<BR>
>>are particularly popular with munchkins...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Glen, if you will also look, you will find an Aliens page, a Leading<BR>
Edge Games page, a planed Morrow Project page, a planed V&V page.   As well<BR>
as Roar, B5, & Blackadder pages, I hope my Aliens page, & my Leading Edge<BR>
Games page offended you as much as my Macross II & Phase World pages.<BR>
    If you will note I have not planed a Traveller page, as there are so<BR>
many better Traveller pages than I could create, but there will be one now,<BR>
just to upset you as much as my Macross II & Phase World pages have done.<BR>
<BR>
>  One thing at least that can be said for Palladium is that their<BR>
production<BR>
>values are (at least superficially - we won't mention the content value of<BR>
>the rules and descriptive text) fairly good, unlike the sort of stuff that<BR>
>issued back in the days of yore from places like Group One or Judges Guild<BR>
>(although to be fair desk-top publishing s/w is a big issue - almost anyone<BR>
>can make their garbage look quite pretty whether it's just html or<BR>
hardcopy;<BR>
>come to think of it, that explains a lot...)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Steve, you might want to pick up some of the latest stuff from<BR>
Palladium, as well as a few copies of the Rifter.  It seems that Palladium<BR>
is relying, more than any other game company, for product & ideas from its<BR>
fans.  Seems to me, that this is a good thing.  I am working on a sourcebook<BR>
for Phase World & one for Rifts as well as one for Macross II.  I know that<BR>
several people are also working on other projects for Palladium, running the<BR>
gamit from Ninjas & Super Spies, to HU2, to Rifts, to Nightbane, to System<BR>
Failure, to Robotech.  The players are the ones that truely guide Palladium<BR>
to where it is going, sorta like we used to do with GDW.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 13:03:40<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: games design<BR>
<BR>
At 01:00 PM 1/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>>I find most Rifts players to be munchkins, more concerned with killing more<BR>
>>and more things with bigger and bigger guns that roleplaying.  Kevin<BR>
>>Siembedia himself is a jerk, as anybody who has ever posted a webpage or<BR>
>>message about one of his game syatems has found out.<BR>
><BR>
>  Well, if designing a game universe primarily for munchkins is a good<BR>
>business case, what the hell - plus it keeps them away from the rest of<BR>
>us. Not that the classic "PC's in battldress" was anything similar :)<BR>
<BR>
What really gets me is the escalation in Rifts.  Each new product has to<BR>
have bigger and better yoys doing MDC than the last book.  Hell, I don't<BR>
know if any of the original OCC's would survive five minutes in a current<BR>
day Rifts campaign.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 13:07:16<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
At 01:36 PM 1/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>>Wait a minute!  You mean a *businessman* is out to make money!!  How DARE<BR>
>he!<BR>
><BR>
>    This comming from a man living in Berkley.  KS, has something to do with<BR>
>everything that comes out of Palladium.<BR>
<BR>
It's Berkeley, and I live in San Francisco.  Home of Levi-Strauss, Wells<BR>
Fargo, and the Gold Rush.  We know capitalism.<BR>
<BR>
>    Look Doug, two things, congrats about the cancer thing, us cancer<BR>
>survivors have to stick together, second, do not try & change my mind about<BR>
>SJ, it will not happen.<BR>
<BR>
Fine, then stop saying that you will kill me.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 13:08:01<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
At 01:58 PM 1/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>    GDW was the perfect game company.  They cared about their players, they<BR>
>took time to listen & explain Traveller to many young gamers, they also were<BR>
>very nice people.  So do not attack GDW.<BR>
<BR>
ROTFLMAO!!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1631<BR>
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1631<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1632<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Box sets (was: GURPS vs. T5?)<BR>
RE: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
SJG bashing<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
Re: games design<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Re: OT Gunbunny notice<BR>
jurisdiction issues in the Imperium<BR>
Re: games design<BR>
Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 13:18:11<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
At 01:57 PM 1/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>    When you went to SJG instead of producing a better T4, it really hurt,<BR>
>to have one of my heros betray what he had created.<BR>
<BR>
sigh.<BR>
<BR>
1.  Loren had nothing to do with T4.<BR>
<BR>
2.  Loren isn't a monk contemplating better RPGs on a mountain in remote<BR>
Tibet, he's a member of the gaming industry who needs food and shelter.  He<BR>
got a good offer, so he took it.  I don't blame him.<BR>
<BR>
3.  Nobody "betrayed" Traveller, the game failed.  Got it?  GDW screwed the<BR>
pooch with TNE, lost their fan base, and went out of business.  You could<BR>
sit down with Loren and Marc and John Harshman and I'm sure they could tell<BR>
you the whole tale.<BR>
<BR>
4. Your behavior in this thread has reached the stage where I am personally<BR>
threatened by your comments.  I want an apology for all the threats made<BR>
against myself as a GURPS writer, against other writers, players of Magic<BR>
and Pokemon, Steve Jackson and Steve Jackson Games, Inc.  I am serious<BR>
about this.  As a member of the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community, I have held to<BR>
many hands in ERs to dismiss *any* threat of violence against *any*<BR>
minority (even GURPS players) to accept anything but your total, sincere<BR>
assurence that you are not contemplating violence.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps you should ask your rabbi to put you in touch with a Witness, who<BR>
can describe what it's like to be on the other side of hate like yours.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:20:00 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
From: Jory Earl <j-man@iname.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Oh no!  Martini glass with ice clinking and a tuxedo?  Doug has been taken<BR>
>over by Dean Martin!!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    At least it wasn't Jerry Lewis.  *weg*<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 21:12:52 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: Box sets (was: GURPS vs. T5?)<BR>
<BR>
Kelly St.Clair wrote:<BR>
> There will be some people (like me) who are annoyed at buying<BR>
> the same rules over and over, but the value of a standalone<BR>
> one-book game in today's marketplace cannot be overstated.  The<BR>
> days of the Boxed Set are over.<BR>
<BR>
What?!  "The days of the boxed set are over" ... I hope NOT!  I'm<BR>
fed up with having to buy multiple copies of a complete game just<BR>
so I have enough copies of the CGen rules ... and I have a  house<BR>
rule of not letting players see the bulk of the rules  so  as  to<BR>
reduce incidence of rules lawyering.<BR>
<BR>
Any game designers/publishers out there please hear my  plea:  No<BR>
more one-book games, bring back the boxed set.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 13:15:46 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
FYI, FWIW, I just got through checking the old account, and no joy.  Didn't<BR>
find anything from them.<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Legate<BR>
Legion<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 12:44 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Really?  I haven't heard from them.  Of course, if they sent it to my old<BR>
>e-mail, that could be why (I REALLY need to change that).  Guess it's time<BR>
>to check the old dialup account at slip.net again...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Jesse, it might be.  I know that they sent an email to you, while I was<BR>
in the store.  I had recommended you to them because of the quality of your<BR>
artwork, to tell you the truth, your artwork would be the only reason I<BR>
bought anything for GURPS - Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 16:26:48 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
Frankly, I have a problem with someone who bashes a company<BR>
because of the company's _customers_.  Especially when the<BR>
company in question _consistently_ produces high-quality product,<BR>
and whose CEO - the chief target of the bashing - is _known_,<BR>
whatever his personal faults, to be an avid supporter of the<BR>
industry, above and beyond what his position as the head of one<BR>
of the major powers in the industry would suggest is necessary.<BR>
<BR>
Even the Microsoft-bashers don't stoop so low as to base their<BR>
opinion of MS on the _users_ of MS products.  If you're trying to<BR>
be Larry Ellison or Dave McNealy to Stevie's Bill Gates, don't -<BR>
you don't have the charisma.  Or the competitor.<BR>
<BR>
Loren: to you and the staff of SJG, from Stevie on down - I can't<BR>
control the words or actions of other members of this list.  I<BR>
can assure you that _I_ do not agree with certain sentiments<BR>
posted here, and I am reasonably sure that there are others that<BR>
share my opinion.  I also apologise for the fact that my culture<BR>
has managed to degrade to the point that the rudeness portrayed<BR>
in certain posts to this list has come to be seen as acceptable<BR>
in public.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 16:26:53 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000 12:11:34 -0500 (EST), "Douglas E. Berry"<BR>
<gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>At 11:53 PM 1/1/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>So what's your status now (Besides "Alive, gloriously", that is)?<BR>
>>And what's your _next_ long-term goal?<BR>
<BR>
>Let's see.. no immune system, wildly varying energy levels, platelet levels<BR>
>that make my doctor cry.. Pretty damn good, all things considered.<BR>
<BR>
That's the spirit!  And I'll bet that with proper care and time,<BR>
all of those little things you list can be corrected.  Keep at<BR>
it; a positive attitude is the one of the best things to bring to<BR>
treatment - of anything.<BR>
<BR>
>My next goal?  Other than seeing ACQ and GF in print?  Y'all are going to<BR>
>laugh...<BR>
<BR>
>In 2002 Kirsten and I are travelling to South Africa for the total eclipse.<BR>
> Among other things, I'll be visiting Ladysmith (where my great-grandfather<BR>
>was one of the besieged troops).<BR>
<BR>
Good!  Travel often has a salutary effect on health!<BR>
<BR>
>Also, I'll be visiting an isolated beach, which is the winter home of<BR>
>thousands of penguins.  Tens of thousands of King Penguins.  I'll be<BR>
>wearing a tux.<BR>
<BR>
<giggle> You're not insinuating that you're the same shape as the<BR>
penguins, are you? Please remember to make some pictures of this<BR>
available to us!<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:27:46 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
<BR>
Subject: Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:11 PM 1/2/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>>What's wrong with that, I ask?<BR>
><BR>
>Nothing AFAIK. Most of the gamers I play with have a special type they like<BR>
to play.  One likes paladins, one likes thieves, one likes playing a doctor,<BR>
one likes playing engineers.<BR>
><BR>
>I personally like playing Beast Masters.  But when I can't, I play a<BR>
fighter (armsman) with an affinity to animals.  In my SF games, said about<BR>
me, "Tom doesn't build characters.  He builds Weapon Platforms."  But I<BR>
don't mind it.  And I my GMs don't mind it either.<BR>
><BR>
> If you enjoy the game and your players enjoy the game, I wouldn't worry<BR>
about it.<BR>
><BR>
>What brought this on?<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Some people don't like it.<BR>
<BR>
One of my more common nicknames is "Princess".  This is probably because I<BR>
hate camping, have been known to order room service at gaming and anime<BR>
conventions, didn't own a sleeping bag until I needed one for a UU Church<BR>
lockin (and it is now a comforter on my bed, unzipped), go to conventions in<BR>
dresses, and other fun things.  I rarely wear t-shirts and don't own any<BR>
sweat pants.  ::shrug::<BR>
<BR>
I don't look down on people who are different, but these are things that I<BR>
do.  And people tease me about it.  Like Princess Leia, if the chips are<BR>
down I pull my weight with as little complaining as possible (a line like<BR>
"what an incredible smell you've discovered" may occasionally pass my lips,<BR>
but I don't complain like the b*tch in Indiana Jones and the Temple of<BR>
Doom), but if I have my choice I have nice things around me and I do things<BR>
elegantly.  All my characters have a bit of this about them with a very few<BR>
exceptions (I did have a Vargr once who was quite down and dirty) and that's<BR>
why I often end up playing nobles and rogues...<BR>
<BR>
No one has ever said that all my characters are basically just me (I often<BR>
play male characters, for one thing) but there are characters that just<BR>
don't fit me well.  I just wouldn't know HOW to be a 50 year old marine<BR>
infantryman with a social status of 3 who's not aspiring to raise it.  Not<BR>
for the whole evening. I could write about him, but I would feel awkward<BR>
role playing him for months of a campaign.<BR>
<BR>
I never played dwarves when I played D & D, and in Vampire I was almost<BR>
always Toreador or Ventrue.  But no one has ever said that I'm a bad<BR>
roleplayer just because I have never had the desire to be a dwarf, a hobbit,<BR>
a kender or a Droyne.  (I once DID play a half-orc rogue with the highest<BR>
allowable charisma and a very winning personality.  Everyone liked Ufthang,<BR>
even people who didn't want to.  THAT was fun.  And he stole them blind.)<BR>
<BR>
I admit it.  I don't want to be too ugly or too broke (I'm not ugly, but<BR>
this society's standards sometimes make me feel that way) and I wouldn't<BR>
know how to play dumb!  Not as my main character.  I do well with all these<BR>
types of characters when I run a game as NPC's but if I'm playing, this is<BR>
not the mindset I want to be in all evening.<BR>
<BR>
And that's just me.<BR>
<BR>
And I look forward to playing G:T with Doug because I want to recreate my<BR>
very first RPG character ever, unless you want to count a D & D mage who<BR>
died the night I rolled her up and made me swear off RPG's till a friend<BR>
lured me in with the LBB's...  Julissa haut-D'Bari, lately of the IISS.<BR>
Someone who can definitely rough it with the best of them... much unlike<BR>
me... but someone who was raised at court.  Like Ufthang, a fun<BR>
juxtaposition.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:24:26 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: games design<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>What really gets me is the escalation in Rifts.  Each new product has to<BR>
>have bigger and better yoys doing MDC than the last book.  Hell, I don't<BR>
>know if any of the original OCC's would survive five minutes in a current<BR>
>day Rifts campaign.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    If you will note that each game book comes out at a different time &<BR>
place.  I.e. think of Rifts Earth as a Sub-Sector, not every world will be<BR>
TL-15.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:33:40 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>>    This comming from a man living in Berkley.  KS, has something to do<BR>
with<BR>
>>everything that comes out of Palladium.<BR>
><BR>
>It's Berkeley, and I live in San Francisco.  Home of Levi-Strauss, Wells<BR>
>Fargo, and the Gold Rush.  We know capitalism.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Yes, you do.<BR>
<BR>
>>    Look Doug, two things, congrats about the cancer thing, us cancer<BR>
>>survivors have to stick together, second, do not try & change my mind<BR>
about<BR>
>>SJ, it will not happen.<BR>
><BR>
>Fine, then stop saying that you will kill me.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I never said that I would kill you.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:32:52 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>4. Your behavior in this thread has reached the stage where I am personally<BR>
>threatened by your comments.  I want an apology for all the threats made<BR>
>against myself as a GURPS writer, against other writers, players of Magic<BR>
>and Pokemon, Steve Jackson and Steve Jackson Games, Inc.  I am serious<BR>
>about this.  As a member of the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community, I have held to<BR>
>many hands in ERs to dismiss *any* threat of violence against *any*<BR>
>minority (even GURPS players) to accept anything but your total, sincere<BR>
>assurence that you are not contemplating violence.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I am sorry.<BR>
    But, as a member of the Gay/Lesbian/Bi/BDSM community as well, I do not<BR>
use violence against anyone.  I do not plan on being violent against anyone,<BR>
nor do I wish any violence against anyone.  If you want more, you will not<BR>
get it.<BR>
<BR>
>Perhaps you should ask your rabbi to put you in touch with a Witness, who<BR>
>can describe what it's like to be on the other side of hate like yours.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Acutally, Doug, I have a tattoo my grandfather got in the camps on my<BR>
inner left arm.  If we ever meet, I may show it too you sometime.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 13:32:32<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
<BR>
In the last day, Legate Legion has posted numerous messages to the<BR>
Traveller Mailing List calling for physical attacks on anybody writing for<BR>
GURPS.  He has also stated that he wanted see the blood of GURPS players<BR>
"outside their bodies."<BR>
<BR>
While the TML is an active list, with flame wars not uncommon, these<BR>
threats go beyond the pale.<BR>
<BR>
Several GURPS Traveller writers are on this list, and occasionally post<BR>
information that could reveal our real-world addresses.  This, to me,<BR>
constitutes a threat to my fellow listmembers and myself.<BR>
<BR>
I am asking the Legate Legion either be removed from the Traveller Mailing<BR>
List, or be suspended for a thirty day cooling off period.  During which<BR>
time he can re-think the wisdom of telling people that he wants to see them<BR>
burned for what games they play.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:35:51 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Gunbunny notice<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net><BR>
<BR>
>windfall for Smart Gun development. Colt president, Steve<BR>
>Sliwa, speaking about the Smart Gun, has publicly stated<BR>
<BR>
Is Steve Sliwa any relation to Curtis Sliwa, the New Yorker who<BR>
founded the Guardian Angels (a vigilante force of young men who<BR>
wear red berets and look for violent urban crime, then call the<BR>
police)?<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:46:11 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: jurisdiction issues in the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
>Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
I had written:<BR>
>>Anything goes.  Under the Imperial agreement with each world,<BR>
>>every world may enforce its own laws against anyone within its<BR>
>>territory except for the starport, Imperial facilities, and<BR>
>>officials from the Imperium with diplomatic credentials.<BR>
>>Officials from other worlds, whether Imperial or not, are<BR>
>>normally given diplomatic immunity as well.<BR>
<BR>
You replied:<BR>
>Glenn, you forgot one other category which MUST be exempted to <BR>
>avoid suits against the government: Imperial Military personell<BR>
<BR>
>*_on duty_*.  Including the Scouts... otherwise, military <BR>
>personell on assignment off the facilty (especially short term,<BR>
<BR>
>like carrying a message to the local gov'nor's Guard Captain) <BR>
>need also to be protected... Especially the marine who<BR>
>delivers the "Capitulate Now, or Else!" message to uncoperative<BR>
<BR>
>worlds.<BR>
<BR>
I agree completely that Imperial military and Scout personnel on<BR>
duty are exempt from any enforcement of the member state's<BR>
criminal laws, but not because that avoids litigation against<BR>
any government.  Rather, it's because the Imperial military and<BR>
Scouts need protection from local law in order to do their work.<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:44:28 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: games design<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 13:00, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> >Subject: Re: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
> ...<BR>
> >To make it clear.. I despise Palladium games.  I think their rukles are<BR>
> >awful, munchkin-creating, abberations caused by Kevin Siembeida's<BR>
> >inability to design his way out of a paper sack.<BR>
> <BR>
>   ISTR that when I played it was clearly a hackneyed rip-off of AD&D (as<BR>
> was everything by TSR - hey, "Alternity" means that they're _still_ doing<BR>
> it!), with the munchk^h^h players exercising their rules-lawyering skills<BR>
> by looking for which OCC was most broken in the available rules book. I<BR>
> assume that later editions fixed these problems, yes?<BR>
<BR>
I rather like Alternity (it's a damn good space opera, IMO), and I <BR>
don't see a huge amount of AD&D in it (the stats are about it). In fact <BR>
IMO it owes more to Traveller, especially TNE than to AD&D. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:44:28 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 12:12, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
> >Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
> ...<BR>
> >When did Palladium go multi-genre (as in not the their fantasy rules)? If<BR>
> >you count multi-genre as being the same or similar systems for different<BR>
> >games (as would be the case with the earlier Palladium stuff) I would<BR>
> >have said that Aftermath and its related systems (Bushido and Daredevils)<BR>
> >would've been first.<BR>
> <BR>
>   I don't know for sure about Palladium (I stopped following their crap<BR>
> closely a number of years ago) but FGU wasn't multi-genre in the sense<BR>
> that you didn't buy "core rules" plus (moderately priced) world book, it<BR>
> was just "boxed set of rules, typically with world info edited into each<BR>
> book". I still should have kept Bushido, though :(<BR>
<BR>
I too don't know about Palladium's recent stuff, but LL (?) claimed <BR>
that Palladium had the first multi-genre game, and for that to be the <BR>
case you'd have to use the very loose definition I used, and as I said <BR>
even then I have my doubts. Using the tighter one I think there may <BR>
have been something before GURPS. I can't recall when Hero/Champions <BR>
first had non-superhero stuff published for it, but it may have come <BR>
first.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:44:28 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 13:36, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>     *Buzz* Wrong.  I live in Phoenix, AZ.  HOME OF FGU.  Waterloo games, a<BR>
> LGS, is the home of FGU, & I know the owners of FGU, & gave them the URL<BR>
> of Jesse's web-site about a year & a half ago, when they were going to<BR>
> bring up Space Opera to the public again, they only needed a few good<BR>
> artists, & I told them about Jesse.  They looked at his web-site & liked<BR>
> the artwork & emailed him, he never returned the email.<BR>
>     Jesse, check your backlog of email, I know they sent you one.  From<BR>
> waterloo.com.<BR>
<BR>
That would be the FGU that was once in NY? The one that wanted obscene <BR>
amounts of money from the original authors of its games if they wanted <BR>
the copyrights back? The ones who reprinted Bushido in a new cover, but <BR>
complete with all its errors and typos just so its rights to it didn't <BR>
lapse?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:44:28 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 13:41, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>     Actually, I have run, I will run Palladium - Traveller.  I enjoy the<BR>
> Palladium System, the FIRST Multi-Genre System out there, & you might want<BR>
> to relook at Palladium, it is in manyways better & more fun than GURPS.<BR>
<BR>
Can you please explain this "first multi-genre game" bit to me? When <BR>
did Palladium become multi genre, and with what product?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:50:05 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>FYI, FWIW, I just got through checking the old account, and no joy.  Didn't<BR>
>find anything from them.<BR>
>Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Jesse, I know they sent you an email about wanting you to do some<BR>
artwork for them.  Darren sent it off, I should have gotten to you.  I know<BR>
he looked at your site, was blown away & said (paraphrasing due to the fact<BR>
it was about 18 monthes ago), "Jesus H. F*ck*ng Christ, Legate, this is some<BR>
cool shit, do you think he might do some artwork for us?"<BR>
    "He might, why not email him & ask.  I know he is into Traveller, & it<BR>
would not be that big of a deal to do the same thing for Space Opera."<BR>
    "What's his email addy?"<BR>
    "It's on the page."<BR>
    "Where?"<BR>
    "How in the hell would I know, Darren, I did not design his web-site, he<BR>
did."<BR>
    "Found it."<BR>
    "Then email him."<BR>
    "OK.  What should I say?"<BR>
    "How about:<BR>
'Dear Jesse,<BR>
    You are a god amoung artists, would you please help us out by drawing<BR>
some ships for us?  We are planing to revive the Space Opera Line & would<BR>
like to have your divine touch guiding our artwork for us as well.<BR>
    We will offer you four virgin females if you will only help us out.<BR>
<BR>
    Yours,<BR>
    Darren<BR>
    One who is not fit to lick the dirt off of your boots.'"<BR>
    Darren types away & reads what he has written.<BR>
    "You fuck-head, Legate."<BR>
    "I know you are, but what am I?"<BR>
    "How about:<BR>
'Dear Mr. DeGraph;<BR>
    We would like to open up negotiations to secure your services as a<BR>
freelancer for FGU.  Our phone number is ###-###-#### & you have our email<BR>
addy with this email.<BR>
    Please get into contact with us ASAP.<BR>
<BR>
    Yours,<BR>
    Darren, General Manager of Waterloo Games & FGU.'"<BR>
    "Sounds good, send it."<BR>
    "OK, on its way."<BR>
    A few minutes later.<BR>
    "Legate, you are a fuck head."<BR>
    "I am a what?"<BR>
    "You heard me a fuck head."<BR>
    "Why, asswipe?"<BR>
    "Quit sending me these damn cards."<BR>
    "OK"<BR>
<BR>
    So, Jesse I do know it was sent, as to why you didn't get it I do not<BR>
know why.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:52:39 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>     *Buzz* Wrong.  I live in Phoenix, AZ.  HOME OF FGU.  Waterloo games, a<BR>
> LGS, is the home of FGU, & I know the owners of FGU, & gave them the URL<BR>
> of Jesse's web-site about a year & a half ago, when they were going to<BR>
> bring up Space Opera to the public again, they only needed a few good<BR>
> artists, & I told them about Jesse.  They looked at his web-site & liked<BR>
> the artwork & emailed him, he never returned the email.<BR>
>     Jesse, check your backlog of email, I know they sent you one.  From<BR>
> waterloo.com.<BR>
<BR>
That would be the FGU that was once in NY? The one that wanted obscene<BR>
amounts of money from the original authors of its games if they wanted<BR>
the copyrights back? The ones who reprinted Bushido in a new cover, but<BR>
complete with all its errors and typos just so its rights to it didn't<BR>
lapse?<BR>
<BR>
    Yeppers.  They moved to Phoenix, AZ a few years ago.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1632<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1633<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: games design<BR>
"Starflight" and "Starflight 2: Trade Routes of the Cloud<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re Baiting for Lawsuits (Was GT v T5)<BR>
Re Character Repeats.<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: Keyboard kills & misc<BR>
Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: Re Baiting for Lawsuits (Was GT v T5)<BR>
Re: Re Baiting for Lawsuits (Was GT v T5)<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Unfriendly Local Gaming Stores (was Re: Dragon Magazine on CD)<BR>
Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:52:29 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
>"Collect Call Of Cthulu!<BR>
>Will you accept, sir?"<BR>
<BR>
"Stop!  Are you using your local telephone company to make a<BR>
collect call?  Are you crazy?  Don't you know how much the<BR>
person you're calling can save if you just dial 1-800-CTHULHU?<BR>
and do you know how painful it will be to be crucified on the<BR>
Antarctic ice sheet while hot lava is dropped slowly onto your<BR>
body?"<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:55:35 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
>     Actually, I have run, I will run Palladium - Traveller.  I enjoy the<BR>
> Palladium System, the FIRST Multi-Genre System out there, & you might want<BR>
> to relook at Palladium, it is in manyways better & more fun than GURPS.<BR>
<BR>
Can you please explain this "first multi-genre game" bit to me? When<BR>
did Palladium become multi genre, and with what product?<BR>
<BR>
    Lets see, first product of Palladium, Mechaniods, second product, IIRC,<BR>
was Palladium Fantasy RPG, using the same game system, then TMNT.  They used<BR>
the same system in each.  They also did what LUG has done, & placed its<BR>
basic rule set into every game, but I do not hear people bitching about it<BR>
from LUG.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:53:27 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: games design<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 13:03, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> What really gets me is the escalation in Rifts.  Each new product has to<BR>
> have bigger and better yoys doing MDC than the last book.  Hell, I don't<BR>
> know if any of the original OCC's would survive five minutes in a current<BR>
> day Rifts campaign. > > -- <BR>
<BR>
Games Workshop Syndrome...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:57:29 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: "Starflight" and "Starflight 2: Trade Routes of the Cloud<BR>
<BR>
*******************<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: "Starflight" and "Starflight 2: Trade Routes of the<BR>
Cloud Nebula"<BR>
<BR>
Anyone remember these?  Anyone ever figure out a way to connect<BR>
them to Traveller?  Anyone want to contact me privately so I can<BR>
tell you some non-public things about them?<BR>
*******************<BR>
<BR>
No, what were they.  They sound vaguely familiar.  Please do<BR>
tell all.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:59:01 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 14:55, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
>     Lets see, first product of Palladium, Mechaniods, second product,<BR>
>     IIRC,<BR>
> was Palladium Fantasy RPG, using the same game system, then TMNT.  They<BR>
> used the same system in each.  They also did what LUG has done, & placed<BR>
> its basic rule set into every game, but I do not hear people bitching<BR>
> about it from LUG.<BR>
<BR>
I'm a bit dubious about this making the mutli genre, especially given <BR>
that the rules in Palladium Fantasy are not the same as those in TMNT. <BR>
Specifically how skill levels, character levels, etc work.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 12:45:05 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Baiting for Lawsuits (Was GT v T5)<BR>
<BR>
>  ISTR one TML'er who had a "Palladium" page on his site, just to attract<BR>
>threatening e-mails from said company; there is, after all, an element of<BR>
>that name, so it was all perfectly innocent :)  I have to wonder if there<BR>
>was a good reason for feeling that KS&Co had that coming to them?<BR>
<BR>
I am one who did. I Did recieve an email from a lawyer claiming to be KS's,<BR>
who told me to remove the page or else... I told him to read the page, and<BR>
sue me anyway; I'd love to eliminate KS's indefensible TM by virtue of the<BR>
term having been public domain for centuries. Never heard back.<BR>
<BR>
>  IMHO, Palladium publishes second rate filler, but that doesn't warrant<BR>
>further comments about their business practices, character, or complete<BR>
>disdain for editing and the English language.<BR>
<BR>
Palladium had some great ideas. Unfortunately, they suffer from other problems.<BR>
<BR>
>>>Whatever your opinion of specific products, Steve Jackson and SJG have<BR>
>>>made incredible contributions to our pastime, from "Ogre" and "The<BR>
>>>Fantasy Trip", through "Illuminati" and GURPS, to "In Nomine", the<BR>
>>>Silicon Valley Tarot, and _Pyramid_ magazine (both print and online).<BR>
>><BR>
>>    Orge & TFT were cool, but GURPS is just a way to make more & more money,<BR>
>>not a contributribution to the art of gaming.<BR>
<BR>
TFT was Metagaming. So was Ogre/GEV. SJ did GURPS because he couldn't<BR>
acquire the rights to TFT. (GURPS Designer's Notes article) He did buy<BR>
Ogre/GEV back.<BR>
<BR>
SJ and Chad Irby did up Car Wars... Car Wars introduced me to the idea of<BR>
RPG's without attributes, and for that, I thank them. I don't know any game<BR>
designers personally, but have found MWM and Kevin StAndre to both be quick<BR>
to respond, polite, and really fan oriented; I've never felt my questions<BR>
or opinions welcomed by SJG... Nor, for that matter, TFG, ADB or Steve Cole<BR>
and Steve Petrick.<BR>
<BR>
Locally, the term Evil Stevies is used to refer jointly to the two<BR>
purpotedly biggest egos in Gaming: Steves Cole, Petrick and Jackson.<BR>
<BR>
SJ, SC and SPP all are more than willing to let a cult of personality<BR>
develop around them; there is no such thing as bad press.<BR>
<BR>
>  Were you by any chance conscious when Man-to-Man/GURPS first came out?<BR>
><BR>
Yes. It was the best melee combat system I'd ever played to that point. MTM<BR>
got me to buy into GURPS. GURPS, 3 editions later, has turned me off. The<BR>
quality has dropped in the supplements, even as point values have finally<BR>
started to standardize.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 12:53:08 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Character Repeats.<BR>
<BR>
>>I as well will push that button with an additional acusatory statement from<BR>
>>my experiences: GURPS players tend to play the same character OVER AND<BR>
>>OVER, in only slight variations by setting...<BR>
>>That is why I love the Random CGen of CT/MT... You get what you rolled...<BR>
>>now role-play it!<BR>
>><BR>
>>This very dichotomy is what spoiled me on GURPS in the first place...<BR>
>>People fall into ruts when allowed to do so, and non-random CGen allows<BR>
>>them to do so.<BR>
><BR>
>I guess you never had a player reroll their character twenty times to get<BR>
>the stats they wanted, or out-and-out cheat for the same result?  Or create<BR>
>a succession of (say) elven fighter/magic-users who had different stats and<BR>
>names, but otherwise seemed to have been decanted from the same clone vat?<BR>
<BR>
No. Then again, I don't allow that in any game, and I watch die rolls. I do<BR>
CGen as a joint Player/GM activity. MT I have done as a group activity. The<BR>
only systems I've had the Clones in all but name syndrome have been GURPS,<BR>
HeroSystem, and Cyberpunk.<BR>
<BR>
>Traveller's much-praised/-pilloried character generation even provides a<BR>
>ready-made excuse for such players:  "Oops, I Blew My Survival Roll.  Guess<BR>
>I'll have to start over. *wink wink*"<BR>
<BR>
Under MT, failing a survival roll is a short term result, not death.<BR>
Elimmination of the character is an option under MT. The exact reverse of<BR>
CT. Had a few players ask to let the character die... but I make them play<BR>
the character for at least 3 sessions. A few don't make it... a few will<BR>
give up the character after that, but most will continue with the character<BR>
from that point. Then again, I allow 2d of re-rolls in CG, IE reroll 1d6<BR>
twice or eroll a single 2d throw. I allow rerolling just 1d of a 2d<BR>
throw... enough determinism to allow a mild shaping, not enough to overrule<BR>
the direction the character has gone by the dice.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:05:07 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>4. Your behavior in this thread has reached the stage where I am personally<BR>
threatened by your comments.  I want an apology for all the threats made<BR>
against myself as a GURPS writer, against other writers, players of Magic<BR>
and Pokemon, Steve Jackson and Steve Jackson Games, Inc.  I am serious about<BR>
this.  As a member of the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community,<BR>
><BR>
I'd no idea that you were Family.  =)<BR>
<BR>
> I have held too many hands in ERs to dismiss *any* threat of violence<BR>
against *any* minority (even GURPS players) to accept anything but your<BR>
total, sincere assurence that you are not contemplating violence.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Seconded.<BR>
<BR>
I realize (or rather hope), Legate, that you MAY have thought you were<BR>
joking.  But your comments did not sound like jokes and they are not funny.<BR>
<BR>
After we got my roommate out of the hospital and his face was so bruised I<BR>
could hardly recognize him-- because a guy who hit on HIM was doing it to<BR>
lead him out of the bar so he could beat him up-- and after the two big guys<BR>
in Nebraska cornered me and my boyfriend while their old, but big and scary<BR>
looking father informed us that he was a WWII veteran-- I just can't take<BR>
this as a joke.<BR>
<BR>
Furthermore, while I do not play the card game of Pokemon, many of my<BR>
friends do, I collect Pokemon toys and I sell Pokemon toys on eBay.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:07:43 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Keyboard kills & misc<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Keyboard kills & misc<BR>
<BR>
>Frank Pitt <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:<BR>
>> So, anyone used Flagg in a Traveller game ?<BR>
><BR>
>Oddly, I cannot think of a character named Flagg without<BR>
>thinking of the screwball from the CIA on M*A*S*H.  I have<BR>
<BR>
No, it's "American Flagg, Sexus Ranger", a pornographic<BR>
television show from Mars.  Howard Chaykin wrote and drew the<BR>
comic books, which tell the story of the actor who played<BR>
American Flagg, who was replaced by CGI.  The actor comes to<BR>
Earth (he is from our colony on Mars) and becomes a real Plexus<BR>
Ranger.  If I recall correctly, the story takes place in the<BR>
fairly near future, like mid-21st century.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:06:51 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
I've come to the conclusion that we were all wrong about the Y2K Bug - <BR>
it doesn't affect computer at all, but rather people. It makes them <BR>
even more touchy and prone to flaming than usual.<BR>
<BR>
So far we're not even halfway through the thrid day of the year, here <BR>
(most of us aren't even into it yet), and there've been three <BR>
"disscussions"/flame wars start up, one that went straight to ad <BR>
hominem attacks (or statements that were interpreted that way, <BR>
depending on your POV).<BR>
<BR>
Is everyone hungover, or something?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 14:08:30 -0800<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:02:10, "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
wrote: <BR>
<BR>
>Also, I'll be visiting an isolated beach, which is the winter home of<BR>
>thousands of penguins.  Tens of thousands of King Penguins.  I'll be<BR>
>wearing a tux.<BR>
<BR>
<Little Green Men from TOY STORY><BR>
"ooooOOOO."<BR>
</LGM><BR>
<BR>
I offer you my congratulations on reaching 2000, and best wishes for the<BR>
future.<BR>
<BR>
I'm also eagerly awaiting CHEZ BEOWULF.  Where do we submit cards? :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair   "The Jigglypuff's trilling seems to have a <BR>
kellys@efn.org    tranquilizing effect on the human nervous system.<BR>
                  Fortunately, I am... immune..."<BR>
                            -- Mr. Spock, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:06:59 -0500<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jory Earl <j-man@iname.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 4:22 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Oh no!  Martini glass with ice clinking and a tuxedo?  Doug has been taken<BR>
> over by Dean Martin!!!<BR>
<BR>
Whhhheeeeena da mooona hit's u eye like a bigga penquin froma sky.....<BR>
<BR>
Opps sorry, I couldn't resist myself... Stop that, darn, I hate it when it<BR>
does that!<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:20:37 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
Umm..I'd like to report a keyboard kill here...Thanks a lot Mike..<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 5:06 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Jory Earl <j-man@iname.com><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 4:22 PM<BR>
> Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > Oh no!  Martini glass with ice clinking and a tuxedo?  Doug has been<BR>
taken<BR>
> > over by Dean Martin!!!<BR>
><BR>
> Whhhheeeeena da mooona hit's u eye like a bigga penquin froma sky.....<BR>
><BR>
> Opps sorry, I couldn't resist myself... Stop that, darn, I hate it when it<BR>
> does that!<BR>
><BR>
> Mike<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:13:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 14:55, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>     Lets see, first product of Palladium, Mechaniods, second product,<BR>
>     IIRC,<BR>
> was Palladium Fantasy RPG, using the same game system, then TMNT.  They<BR>
> used the same system in each.  They also did what LUG has done, & placed<BR>
> its basic rule set into every game, but I do not hear people bitching<BR>
> about it from LUG.<BR>
<BR>
I'm a bit dubious about this making the mutli genre, especially given<BR>
that the rules in Palladium Fantasy are not the same as those in TMNT.<BR>
Specifically how skill levels, character levels, etc work.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    As time went on, the rules evolved, much like anything else.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:15:26 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Baiting for Lawsuits (Was GT v T5)<BR>
<BR>
From: William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>  ISTR one TML'er who had a "Palladium" page on his site, just to attract<BR>
>>threatening e-mails from said company; there is, after all, an element of<BR>
>>that name, so it was all perfectly innocent :)  I have to wonder if there<BR>
>>was a good reason for feeling that KS&Co had that coming to them?<BR>
><BR>
>I am one who did. I Did recieve an email from a lawyer claiming to be KS's,<BR>
>who told me to remove the page or else... I told him to read the page, and<BR>
>sue me anyway; I'd love to eliminate KS's indefensible TM by virtue of the<BR>
>term having been public domain for centuries. Never heard back.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    KS would not send a lawyer after you, but his wife.  And, as long as you<BR>
have the disclaimer on your web-site, you would not have to worry.  And, do<BR>
not worry about the TMs, we don't.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:15:26 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Baiting for Lawsuits (Was GT v T5)<BR>
<BR>
From: William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>  ISTR one TML'er who had a "Palladium" page on his site, just to attract<BR>
>>threatening e-mails from said company; there is, after all, an element of<BR>
>>that name, so it was all perfectly innocent :)  I have to wonder if there<BR>
>>was a good reason for feeling that KS&Co had that coming to them?<BR>
><BR>
>I am one who did. I Did recieve an email from a lawyer claiming to be KS's,<BR>
>who told me to remove the page or else... I told him to read the page, and<BR>
>sue me anyway; I'd love to eliminate KS's indefensible TM by virtue of the<BR>
>term having been public domain for centuries. Never heard back.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    KS would not send a lawyer after you, but his wife.  And, as long as you<BR>
have the disclaimer on your web-site, you would not have to worry.  And, do<BR>
not worry about the TMs, we don't.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:17:46 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I've come to the conclusion that we were all wrong about the Y2K Bug -<BR>
it doesn't affect computer at all, but rather people. It makes them<BR>
even more touchy and prone to flaming than usual.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Yes, you all were.  << Speaking as someone who had to replace chipsets<BR>
out of old mainframes. >><BR>
<BR>
So far we're not even halfway through the thrid day of the year, here<BR>
(most of us aren't even into it yet), and there've been three<BR>
"disscussions"/flame wars start up, one that went straight to ad<BR>
hominem attacks (or statements that were interpreted that way,<BR>
depending on your POV).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    OK.<BR>
<BR>
Is everyone hungover, or something?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Something, in my case.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:23:01 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
Kiri, I just want you to know you don't have to belong to any special<BR>
community in order to be 'family'.<BR>
<BR>
<hugs><BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 5:05 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
><BR>
> >4. Your behavior in this thread has reached the stage where I am<BR>
personally<BR>
> threatened by your comments.  I want an apology for all the threats made<BR>
> against myself as a GURPS writer, against other writers, players of Magic<BR>
> and Pokemon, Steve Jackson and Steve Jackson Games, Inc.  I am serious<BR>
about<BR>
> this.  As a member of the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community,<BR>
> ><BR>
> I'd no idea that you were Family.  =)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 15:22:11 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Unfriendly Local Gaming Stores (was Re: Dragon Magazine on CD)<BR>
<BR>
>>I would like to be able to report that I bought it from my FLGS, except<BR>
>>my LGS isn't all that friendly -- it has a reputation for gouging its<BR>
>>customers, as it has effectively no local competition. <BR>
><BR>
>  Hey! I've heard of that store! - one of the UBC club-members is an<BR>
>exile from Edmonton and was telling horror stories...<BR>
<BR>
So its reputation has grown beyond the Edmonton metro area. *shudder*.<BR>
<BR>
I will refrain from naming the store in a public forum.<BR>
<BR>
Many years ago when this store was one of several in the city, it gained<BR>
the lead position by offering good customer service and a good customer<BR>
loyalty program. Over time, they kept growing while thier competitors bit<BR>
the dust one by one. Once they became pretty much the only game in town,<BR>
things changed for the worse. $89.95 Canadian for the Dragon CD Archive,<BR>
when Amazon.com has it for $28 US? That's less than half the price when<BR>
you work out the exchange rate...<BR>
<BR>
>  Luckily, Warehouse 23 now does mail-order of SJ Games (and BITS, and <BR>
>Atlas, etc., I presume) stuff through an associated company from Calgary,<BR>
>so Canadian gamers don't have to pay 40% shipping plus GST, PST & a $5<BR>
>customs processing charge; it's cheap (to free at $80 US) shipping plus<BR>
>7% GST (well, Albertans get to add their PST, but that's zero % <snarl>).<BR>
<BR>
Cool. So I won't have to bug my friends in Seattle anymore. :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:39:37 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
>>     Actually, I have run, I will run Palladium - Traveller.  I enjoy the<BR>
>> Palladium System, the FIRST Multi-Genre System out there, & you might want<BR>
>> to relook at Palladium, it is in manyways better & more fun than GURPS.<BR>
><BR>
>Can you please explain this "first multi-genre game" bit to me? When<BR>
>did Palladium become multi genre, and with what product?<BR>
<BR>
Palladium's first offering was Mechanoids. Their next was Palladium Fantasy.<BR>
<BR>
Early 80's. The Mechanoid Invasion, 1981, format: Comic Book, cover price<BR>
US$3.75<BR>
Palladium Fantasy came out shortly after, using almost identical rules.<BR>
<BR>
Hero System had multiple genres by 1985, when I got into it.<BR>
<BR>
TSR had Boot Hill and AD&D on the same mechanics by 81, and IIRC, gamma world.<BR>
<BR>
Chaosium was going strong in the early 80's... they had several different<BR>
games in different genres.<BR>
<BR>
FGU had multiple parallel games well before Mechanoids.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1633<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1634<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Re: Galaxy Quest<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: Galaxy Quest!<BR>
Re: Galaxy Quest!<BR>
Re: Horses<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: SJG bashing<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
A new Clif<BR>
A new Clif<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 14:25:23<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
At 02:05 PM 1/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
><BR>
>As a member of the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community,<BR>
>><BR>
>I'd no idea that you were Family.  =)<BR>
<BR>
Extremely twisted.  I'm mostly straight, but wander off sometimes.<BR>
<BR>
A few years back Kirsten bought me a "Nobody Knows I'm a Lesbian" shirt.<BR>
You should see the looks I get at Pride with that one on.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 15:40:18 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 13:32:32<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
><BR>
>In the last day, Legate Legion has posted numerous messages to the<BR>
>Traveller Mailing List calling for physical attacks on anybody writing for<BR>
>GURPS.  He has also stated that he wanted see the blood of GURPS players<BR>
>"outside their bodies."<BR>
><BR>
>While the TML is an active list, with flame wars not uncommon, these<BR>
>threats go beyond the pale.<BR>
><BR>
>Several GURPS Traveller writers are on this list, and occasionally post<BR>
>information that could reveal our real-world addresses.  This, to me,<BR>
>constitutes a threat to my fellow listmembers and myself.<BR>
><BR>
>I am asking the Legate Legion either be removed from the Traveller Mailing<BR>
>List, or be suspended for a thirty day cooling off period.  During which<BR>
>time he can re-think the wisdom of telling people that he wants to see them<BR>
>burned for what games they play.<BR>
>- -- <BR>
><BR>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
With one small exception, I completely endorse and agree with the above.<BR>
The exception: never mind the suspension, just remove him. And while we're<BR>
at it, perhaps we should inform Legate's Internet Service Provider about<BR>
what he has been up to. The company I work for is also a local ISP, and<BR>
people have been TOS'd from it for less.<BR>
<BR>
- -- g<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 00:22:05 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Galaxy Quest<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
>> Now, the trick to use in such  a situation would be to turn your<BR>
>> scientific, logical minds towards understanding things that *do*<BR>
>> work in the world you've found yourself in. Assuming, of course,<BR>
>> that there are branches of magick that are accessible through<BR>
>> the scientific method.<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, if the scientific method doesn't work, themn logic doesn't<BR>
> apply to the world and nothing is either predictable or reliable. <BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
> There could be limits. For example, if Magick actually consists of <BR>
> cajoling or threatening demons, then the scientific method may work<BR>
> against you *in that particular instance*, as being predictable (as<BR>
> required by the scientific method) will let the demons know what<BR>
> to expect of you. <BR>
<BR>
Not really. Because you don't need to "be predictable". And cajoling<BR>
demons merely makes Magic a branch of applied psychology. Where the<BR>
typical problem is that there are way too many variables. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> If Magick is more of an art than a science, then the scientific method<BR>
> will give you tools and materials but few results - much like a physicist <BR>
> studying sound waves can exactly replicate the tone and duration of any<BR>
> individual note, and may be able to create a working musical instrument<BR>
> with only a recording of the music it made to work from, but may not have <BR>
> any ability to write effective music.<BR>
<BR>
But if you can show the artist the principles that explain *why* his<BR>
art works (for example, when mathematics was applie to derive the laws<BR>
of perspective) the artist can do *repeatably* things that he<BR>
previously had to "feel for". <BR>
<BR>
His talent is still important, but knowing the "rules" makes it easier<BR>
to concentrate on the *art* part of things. <BR>
<BR>
> Even if the scientific method is 100% useful, it may still be that all<BR>
> the *data* you currently have is useless. The alchemical properties<BR>
> of a substance may be close to what you think the chemical properties<BR>
> should be, but are based on a different set of principles that you need<BR>
> to learn. The local "scientists" (alchemists, artificers, herbalists,<BR>
> brewers, wizards, whatever) are very far ahead of you in the data <BR>
> department, but may be working from observation and tradition, rather than <BR>
> from principles - and even the *data* they have may be too closely guarded<BR>
> for you to access, meaning that you have to start from scratch. <BR>
<BR>
But once you make some progress using laws and controlled experiments<BR>
you'll again be in a position where if you can convince the locals that<BR>
you aren't a threat, you may be able to help each other.<BR>
<BR>
For example, in that campaign, I started by building miner's lanterns<BR>
that wouldn't ignite gas pockets (it's actually quite easy IF YOU KNOW<BR>
THE TRICK). Matter of fact, not only will such lanterns not ignite the<BR>
gas pockets, but the flame *inside* the lantern acts funny when you are<BR>
in a gas pocket. So the miners have something like warning. <BR>
<BR>
I demoed the lanterns, so the miners trusted me some ("Hey, he proved<BR>
they worked by taking one down into a gas pocket! At least he's got<BR>
guts!"). And I *didn't* gouge them. I charged a price that gave me a<BR>
nice profit, but didn't hurt my customers. <BR>
<BR>
So, by being a "good neighbor", I avoided a lot of the hassles, and was<BR>
able to get into the guilds and get help when I wasn't sure how to<BR>
handle something. <BR>
<BR>
That's the best way to handle introducing new stuff be it in a medieval<BR>
village, or on a trading mission to a lower TL planet.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 00:39:12 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Most amusing Y2K glitch I've heard about: France's national weather service,<BR>
> on their website, had a satellite picture with the date "January 1, 19100".<BR>
> You read that right: 19100. (Makes perfect sense: 99 + 1 = 100, after all.)<BR>
> Only 17,100 years off. :)<BR>
<BR>
That bug bit a few programs here. It's due to programmers in C using a<BR>
library function without bothering to read the docs. The function<BR>
returns the year. the programmers *assumed* it returned the last 2<BR>
digits of the year. It doesn't. It returns the year as an *offset* from<BR>
1900. <BR>
<BR>
So their code was something like this (I don't do C, so I'll use BASIC :-)<BR>
<BR>
	print "19";zero-fill(year(time));<BR>
<BR>
When they *should* be something like this:<BR>
<BR>
	print 1900+year(time);<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav: What kind of problems (if any) did the Imperium have preparing for<BR>
> the (Imperial) year 1000?<BR>
<BR>
Probably none. This sort of thing would be built into basic code<BR>
libraries for *millennia* by then. And since they'd have to deal fairly<BR>
often with dates in *other* systems (Solomani, Zhodani, Aslan, etc)<BR>
they'd regularly be dealing with 4 digit years.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 00:51:13 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Just wanted to share with my net-friends on the TML.<BR>
><BR>
> When I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's in August of 1995, I was advised to<BR>
> pick to goals.  One was a short term goal, to get through the initial<BR>
> surguries and chemotherapy.<BR>
><BR>
> For that, I chose the release of the Regency Sourcebook.<BR>
><BR>
> The second goal was a long term survival goal, something a few years down<BR>
> the line to look forward to.<BR>
><BR>
> I decided that living to see the Year 2000 was a good goal.<BR>
><BR>
> As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
<BR>
Ok, now your assignment is to make it to 2100.... :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 00:56:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Galaxy Quest!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> I was involved in a D&D campaign with a similar premise once. The GM<BR>
>> quickly realized that he'd made a big mistake. I was able to descrivbe<BR>
>> *from memory( how to extract saltpeter, and how to make gunpowder. I<BR>
>> could also detail how to produce sulfuric, hydrochloric and nitric<BR>
>> acids. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> I designed a setup to produce calcium carbide and "explosion proof"<BR>
>> miner's lamps. Which got me rich enough to carry out the experiments<BR>
>> that would get me things like phosgene. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> Another player was a physics major. He and I started discussing how to<BR>
>> build a breeder reactor (using orcs and condemned criminals to work in<BR>
>> the high radiation areas). And how to extract the plutonium, and<BR>
>> construct a bomb. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> The GM decided it was time to end the campaign. :-)<BR>
><BR>
> We tried pulling something like that off once.  GM declared that we as <BR>
> *players* might know that stuff, but not as *characters*. <BR>
<BR>
Alas, the GM had stated that *we*, the *players* had been transported<BR>
to the game world. (Something about loud comments along the lines of<BR>
"Boy, these 'gods' are real pushovers!" be answered by a thunderous<BR>
voice and a giant hand reaching thru the roof and depositing us<BR>
somewhere...)<BR>
<BR>
> And he *also*  decreed that since it *wasn't* Earth, that things didn't<BR>
> *quite* work the way we remembered them *on* Earth.<BR>
<BR>
Which was where we got him by pointing out that if they *didn't* we'd<BR>
be dead. If you change the laws of *physics* enough to noticeably<BR>
affect *chemistry*, you won't get a universe that we *can* live in.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, he had kept things pretty close to Earth. Partly because he'd<BR>
wanted to see how much we could justify. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 01:02:03 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Galaxy Quest!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:00 PM 1/1/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>We tried pulling something like that off once.  GM declared that we as<BR>
> *players* might know that stuff, but not as *characters*.  And he *also*<BR>
> decreed that since it *wasn't* Earth, that things didn't *quite* work the<BR>
> way we remembered them *on* Earth.<BR>
><BR>
> I had a DM who allowed us to gather the ingrediants for gunpowder, mix them<BR>
> put together the bomb, and light it.  It even went off.<BR>
><BR>
> Alas, it seemed that burning gunpowder is the one *sure* way, never fail,<BR>
> guaranteed to work method to summon Demogorgon.<BR>
><BR>
> Oops.<BR>
><BR>
> Explains why the Dwarfs didn't use the stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Cute. <BR>
<BR>
I rather like the bit I picked up from *somewhere*:<BR>
<BR>
"'Summon Demon' is a first level spell. 'Control Demon' is a ninth<BR>
  level spell."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 00:14:19 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 01/01/00 at 11:22 PM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
><BR>
>>ObTrav:<BR>
><BR>
>>1.  IMTU, Imperial Navy vessels in the Spinward Marches are often TL-12<BR>
>>or TL-13, simply because the Marches lack the technological base to<BR>
>>maintain a fleet of uniformly TL-15 ships.<BR>
><BR>
>>2.  Naval vessels may also be limited in size, based on the availability<BR>
>>of repair facilities large enough to handle them.  Large repair<BR>
>>facilities may become major targets in wartime. (Witness the lengths to<BR>
>>which the British went to deny the drydocks at St. Naizaire to the Nazis<BR>
>>[a commando raid, complete with an explosive-laden ship ramming the<BR>
>>docks].  This was because St. Nazaire was one of the few facilities on<BR>
>>the French Atlantic coast capable of handling the German battleship<BR>
>>TIRPITZ.)<BR>
><BR>
> This isn't something that Traveller (even High Guard) has ever done,<BR>
> but what about limiting the volume of ships by Tech Level?  As the<BR>
> TL goes up, the maximum volume of ships also goes up. <BR>
<BR>
There's no rational reason for a volume limit for most aspects of a<BR>
ship. But *jump drives* having a TL related volume limit would fit<BR>
nicely. <BR>
<BR>
Also, if you use the more realistic sets of design rules, you quickly<BR>
run into problems getting enough *surface area* for radiators for<BR>
really big ships. Either that or they and under-powered snails.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 14:43:22<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
At 01:41 PM 1/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>    Could it be, because he did not put this on his page?<BR>
><BR>
>Coalition States(TM)<BR>
<BR>
Gee, I wonder what Dubai, the United Arab Emerites, and the other Coalition<BR>
States from the Gulf War think of this?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 14:44:43<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
At 02:33 PM 1/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Fine, then stop saying that you will kill me.<BR>
><BR>
>    I never said that I would kill you.<BR>
<BR>
You stated that those who write GURPS Traveller should be burned.  I am<BR>
writing GURPS Traveller.  Perhaps, in my case, a light singing will do?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:58:17 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
>>>As a member of the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community,<BR>
>>><BR>
>>I'd no idea that you were Family.  =)<BR>
>><BR>
>Extremely twisted.  I'm mostly straight, but wander off sometimes.<BR>
><BR>
I may borrow that the next time someone asks me to explain how I can be bi<BR>
when I always have male SO's, not that they are always straight either.<BR>
(Though Hiroshi is so straight it's humorous.)<BR>
<BR>
>A few years back Kirsten bought me a "Nobody Knows I'm a Lesbian" shirt.<BR>
You should see the looks I get at Pride with that one on.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I gave you one of them.  Or maybe it was someone else who had the same<BR>
shirt.  Actually there is always one man wearing that shirt at every Pride<BR>
march.  I know because I saw him in Columbus Ohio and I am pretty sure it<BR>
wasn't you.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 18:01:53 -0500<BR>
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
<BR>
What about Chaosium?<BR>
<BR>
RQ 1 came out in the summer of 1978 (I still have my copy!), followed by <BR>
several genre games, all using the same (Chaosium Basic Roleplaying) game <BR>
system.  Worlds of Wonder came out in 1982 (OK - maybe 1983; it was a LONG <BR>
time ago, but the copyright was 1982!) and included three separate games <BR>
based on that rule system - Magic World, Super World, and Future World in a <BR>
single box.  OK - they weren't well supported as stand-alone products (were <BR>
they supported at ALL?) but they demonstrated, early on, that the Chaosium <BR>
system wasn't limited to Glorantha.  Call of Cthulhu hit the streets right <BR>
about then, too. Elric wasn't far behind, either...<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  I never much enjoyed the game mechanics of CT (Sorry!) but loved <BR>
(and still do) the mythos, so we played a game we called Runes in <BR>
Space.  It was a cobble-together of RQ 1, Future World, Other Suns (FGU), <BR>
and Traveller...  Doesn't work for everybody, but I had a half dozen <BR>
die-hard RQ players on-hand, so it was easier than any of the <BR>
alternatives.  We had some good games using it...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bill Rutherford<BR>
worj@home.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:01:34 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I've come to the conclusion that we were all wrong about the Y2K Bug - <BR>
> it doesn't affect computer at all, but rather people. It makes them <BR>
> even more touchy and prone to flaming than usual.<BR>
<BR>
You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:02:58 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Kiri, I just want you to know you don't have to belong to any special<BR>
> community in order to be 'family'.<BR>
<BR>
As with Doug's sly and ludicrous claim of not wanting to damage anyone's<BR>
hardware -- speak for yourself! :)<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:06:18 EST<BR>
From: Tascelt@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
This is the same problem I have found with my ellow sci-fi fans.  In stead of <BR>
saying, "I personally am not into that so I wont watch/play it" and leave it <BR>
at that, people have to attack, nit-pick, bring down.  All this does is <BR>
weaken Role Playing.  The less role playing systems and companies there are , <BR>
the weaker the industry will be.  Just as the sci-fi fans who have to debate <BR>
weather Star Trek is better than Babylon 5 or not, ect... all this does is <BR>
divide our group so that it is easier to be "conquered."  You don't like <BR>
SJG-GURPS or any of that (reguardless of the reason) then excersise your <BR>
freedom to not play that system.  Play another one, come up with your own, <BR>
what ever.  To insult the ones who do play it, make it, own it, ect is <BR>
Juvenile and divisive, and ultimately bad for all RPGs in the end.<BR>
<BR>
TAS<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:15:59 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
Kenji..Don't MAKE ME SEND in the PENGUINS......:)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Kenji Schwarz" <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 6:02 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Kiri, I just want you to know you don't have to belong to any special<BR>
> > community in order to be 'family'.<BR>
> <BR>
> As with Doug's sly and ludicrous claim of not wanting to damage anyone's<BR>
> hardware -- speak for yourself! :)<BR>
> <BR>
> Kenji<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:54:59 -0000<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: A new Clif<BR>
<BR>
Legion is the new Clif.<BR>
<BR>
He says he want folks to die, but he doesn't.<BR>
<BR>
He also has the right to insult me, and if I don't like it I have the right<BR>
to leave the list.<BR>
<BR>
Mr legion, I respect your opinions about Palladium etc. I never challenged<BR>
any of them. I merely asked you to be polite about those of us who have<BR>
written for SJG and a few other companies.<BR>
<BR>
I wonder; do you know how many games companies DO NOT honour contracts or<BR>
pay on time/at all? You suggest to me that most pay correctly - perhaps you<BR>
have published more than I have and know better. My own experience is<BR>
somewhat varied, but that is irrelevant. I merely stated that SJG pays on<BR>
time and those of us who are professional writers respect that - there are<BR>
many who mess freelancers around - and that's right, I said professional.<BR>
Most of my work is outside the games industry, but I know about bad payers,<BR>
I assure you.<BR>
<BR>
But I shall simply say it again: Please desist from personal attacks/death<BR>
threats/abuse and so on.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:54:59 -0000<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: A new Clif<BR>
<BR>
Legion is the new Clif.<BR>
<BR>
He says he want folks to die, but he doesn't.<BR>
<BR>
He also has the right to insult me, and if I don't like it I have the right<BR>
to leave the list.<BR>
<BR>
Mr legion, I respect your opinions about Palladium etc. I never challenged<BR>
any of them. I merely asked you to be polite about those of us who have<BR>
written for SJG and a few other companies.<BR>
<BR>
I wonder; do you know how many games companies DO NOT honour contracts or<BR>
pay on time/at all? You suggest to me that most pay correctly - perhaps you<BR>
have published more than I have and know better. My own experience is<BR>
somewhat varied, but that is irrelevant. I merely stated that SJG pays on<BR>
time and those of us who are professional writers respect that - there are<BR>
many who mess freelancers around - and that's right, I said professional.<BR>
Most of my work is outside the games industry, but I know about bad payers,<BR>
I assure you.<BR>
<BR>
But I shall simply say it again: Please desist from personal attacks/death<BR>
threats/abuse and so on.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:12:37 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
>Autocad is *.dwg<BR>
>DXF is a drawing exchange format and was developed by the Autocad <BR>
>people IIRC, and it is a vector format.<BR>
>Others: *.GEM (GEM Metafile), *.PDF (Portable Document Format), *.ai <BR>
>(Adobe illustrator), *.EPS (Encapsulated Postscript), *.PICT (Apple <BR>
>vector and bitmap format).<BR>
>I'd rate any of the last three over wmf and dxf.<BR>
>Dom<BR>
<BR>
    That does me a lot of good, I've only got AutoCAD! : )<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 15:07:04<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
At 02:08 PM 1/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I'm also eagerly awaiting CHEZ BEOWULF.  Where do we submit cards? :)<BR>
<BR>
Send ideas to me, and maybe we can get the thing published by the entire<BR>
list!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 15:07:37<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
At 05:20 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Umm..I'd like to report a keyboard kill here...Thanks a lot Mike..<BR>
<BR>
How many points?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 16:15:56 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
>To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
>Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 5:05 PM<BR>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>> From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>><BR>
>> >4. Your behavior in this thread has reached the stage where I am<BR>
>personally<BR>
>> threatened by your comments.  I want an apology for all the threats made<BR>
>> against myself as a GURPS writer, against other writers, players of Magic<BR>
>> and Pokemon, Steve Jackson and Steve Jackson Games, Inc.  I am serious<BR>
>about<BR>
>> this.  As a member of the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community,<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> I'd no idea that you were Family.  =)<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 15:22:11 -0700<BR>
>From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
>Subject: Unfriendly Local Gaming Stores (was Re: Dragon Magazine on CD)<BR>
><BR>
>>>I would like to be able to report that I bought it from my FLGS, except<BR>
>>>my LGS isn't all that friendly -- it has a reputation for gouging its<BR>
>>>customers, as it has effectively no local competition. <BR>
>><BR>
>>  Hey! I've heard of that store! - one of the UBC club-members is an<BR>
>>exile from Edmonton and was telling horror stories...<BR>
><BR>
>So its reputation has grown beyond the Edmonton metro area. *shudder*.<BR>
><BR>
>I will refrain from naming the store in a public forum.<BR>
><BR>
>Many years ago when this store was one of several in the city, it gained<BR>
>the lead position by offering good customer service and a good customer<BR>
>loyalty program. Over time, they kept growing while thier competitors bit<BR>
>the dust one by one. Once they became pretty much the only game in town,<BR>
>things changed for the worse. $89.95 Canadian for the Dragon CD Archive,<BR>
>when Amazon.com has it for $28 US? That's less than half the price when<BR>
>you work out the exchange rate...<BR>
><BR>
>>  Luckily, Warehouse 23 now does mail-order of SJ Games (and BITS, and <BR>
>>Atlas, etc., I presume) stuff through an associated company from Calgary,<BR>
>>so Canadian gamers don't have to pay 40% shipping plus GST, PST & a $5<BR>
>>customs processing charge; it's cheap (to free at $80 US) shipping plus<BR>
>>7% GST (well, Albertans get to add their PST, but that's zero % <snarl>).<BR>
><BR>
>Cool. So I won't have to bug my friends in Seattle anymore. :)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
>cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
>        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
>                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:39:37 -0900<BR>
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
>Subject: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
><BR>
>>>>     Actually, I have run, I will run Palladium - Traveller.  I enjoy the<BR>
>>>> Palladium System, the FIRST Multi-Genre System out there, & you might<BR>
want<BR>
>>>> to relook at Palladium, it is in manyways better & more fun than GURPS.<BR>
>><BR>
>>>Can you please explain this "first multi-genre game" bit to me? When<BR>
>>>did Palladium become multi genre, and with what product?<BR>
><BR>
>>Palladium's first offering was Mechanoids. Their next was Palladium Fantasy.<BR>
><BR>
>Early 80's. The Mechanoid Invasion, 1981, format: Comic Book, cover price<BR>
>US$3.75<BR>
>Palladium Fantasy came out shortly after, using almost identical rules.<BR>
><BR>
>Hero System had multiple genres by 1985, when I got into it.<BR>
><BR>
>TSR had Boot Hill and AD&D on the same mechanics by 81, and IIRC, gamma<BR>
world.<BR>
<BR>
I knew about Gamma World back in 1980 -- and it had game mechanics identical<BR>
to those of AD&D. So if all it takes to be called a "multi-genre game" is<BR>
to have the same or similar game mechanics in two different games, then TSR<BR>
did it first, before The Mechanoid Invasion.<BR>
<BR>
Palladium's Multi-Genre RPG is "Rifts", which didn't come along until 1990,<BR>
4 years after GURPS. Palladium may try to claim that it was the first multi-<BR>
genre game, but their claim is based on "multi-genre game" being defined as<BR>
they themselves define it. <BR>
<BR>
(I remember The Mechanoid Invasion, though I didn't remember who published<BR>
it. It sucked. Big time. Now I know why. Besides, what's so great about<BR>
being *first*? Even if Palladium *was* the first, it's still munchkin crap.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1634<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1635</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1635<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Family<BR>
Re: "Starflight" and "Starflight 2: Trade Routes of the Cloud<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: More....<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Volume numbers  >Traveller-digest V1999 #1627<BR>
Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
Re: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
Re: SJG bashing<BR>
Re: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. Trav<BR>
Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
Re: games design<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:31:07 -0000<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Family<BR>
<BR>
Kiri wrote (to Doug?)<BR>
<BR>
> this.  As a member of the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community,<BR>
> ><BR>
> I'd no idea that you were Family.  =)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I had no idea (and didn't care at all) either. <BR>
But it changes nothing. <BR>
<BR>
Y'see Kiri... we're all Family. Humans.<BR>
<BR>
MJD<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:15:17 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: "Starflight" and "Starflight 2: Trade Routes of the Cloud<BR>
<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> No, what were they.  They sound vaguely familiar.  Please do<BR>
> tell all.<BR>
<BR>
If Jeff hasn't already beat me to it:<BR>
<BR>
Starflight is a vast, sweeping romp through uncharted space. The plot goes<BR>
something like this: in the distant past, there once was a loose federation<BR>
of races, with lots of intrigue. The humans were the leaders, as their<BR>
curiosity gave them lots of great tech. As a result, there was a degree of<BR>
peace and stability. Another group of races, refugees from an area of space<BR>
where stars were dying before their time and an an alarming rate destroyed<BR>
the federation. Many years pass...<BR>
<BR>
You're from a planet on which all the races of the old federation are<BR>
represented. The folks on the planet have come up with faster-than-light<BR>
drives again. This *would* usher in a brave new federation. The only<BR>
problem? Your star, and the stars in the area are dying.<BR>
<BR>
So, you've got  to head out on a mission of exploration, intrigue, outright<BR>
battle, trading, mining, ancient archeology and universe saving all at the<BR>
same time. Further, Starflight has the biggest game universe I've ever seen,<BR>
and it came on two 5.25 floppies. I mentioned in another post that it was<BR>
the best computer game of all time, and I mean it.<BR>
<BR>
In Starflight 2, you find yourself in a new sector, opened up after the<BR>
universe was saved in the first game. This new area of space holds many<BR>
opportunities for trade, not to mention a huge secret which lurks in the<BR>
depths of the Cloud Nebula, from which few have ever returned.<BR>
<BR>
What makes these games so memorable are the huge game worlds and the really<BR>
fantastic alien races. From the cowardly Spemin, to the cunning Thrynn to<BR>
the enigmatic Uhlek.<BR>
<BR>
To say anymore would give away too much, as the game is all about<BR>
*discovery*, and you get plenty of it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:18:53 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 18:01, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I've come to the conclusion that we were all wrong about the Y2K Bug -<BR>
> > it doesn't affect computer at all, but rather people. It makes them even<BR>
> > more touchy and prone to flaming than usual.<BR>
> <BR>
> You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
> you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
> Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Ooooh, Look! Another button to push. Oh, wait - it's Kenji, that <BR>
doesn't count :)<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:18:53 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 13:39, William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >>     Actually, I have run, I will run Palladium - Traveller.  I enjoy<BR>
> >>     the<BR>
> >> Palladium System, the FIRST Multi-Genre System out there, & you might<BR>
> >> want to relook at Palladium, it is in manyways better & more fun than<BR>
> >> GURPS.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Can you please explain this "first multi-genre game" bit to me? When did<BR>
> >Palladium become multi genre, and with what product?<BR>
> <BR>
> Palladium's first offering was Mechanoids. Their next was Palladium<BR>
> Fantasy.<BR>
> <BR>
> Early 80's. The Mechanoid Invasion, 1981, format: Comic Book, cover price<BR>
> US$3.75 Palladium Fantasy came out shortly after, using almost identical<BR>
> rules.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hero System had multiple genres by 1985, when I got into it.<BR>
> <BR>
> TSR had Boot Hill and AD&D on the same mechanics by 81, and IIRC, gamma<BR>
> world.<BR>
<BR>
I'm pretty sure that Gamma World actually didn't have the same <BR>
mechanics as AD&D, but I haven't seen the oldest edition.<BR>
 <BR>
> Chaosium was going strong in the early 80's... they had several different<BR>
> games in different genres.<BR>
<BR>
True. I'd forgotten about their _Basic Roleplaying_ rules.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:18:42 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Ok, now your assignment is to make it to 2100.... :-)<BR>
<BR>
Don't you mean 20100? :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:38:10 -0000<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
Doug carelessly typed:<BR>
><BR>
You stated that those who write GURPS Traveller should be burned.  I am<BR>
writing GURPS Traveller.  Perhaps, in my case, a light singing will do?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
A light *singing*??? perhaps some light opera or a Broadway medley?<BR>
<BR>
Surely that sort of thing is banned by some convention?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:30:03 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: More....<BR>
<BR>
>    At least I have offended you, personally, I really do not care, as if<BR>
>this is the state of Traveller, I suggest we split the TML.  One list of<BR>
>CT/MT/T4 players, one list for TNE players, & one list for GT players.<BR>
><BR>
>Legate Legion<BR>
<BR>
    How about one list for us and . . .<BR>
<BR>
    Have you noticed that NOone supports you in this? I'd drop it if I were<BR>
you, your not convincing anyone of anything except that your a bigot.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:40:52 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
4.  Maybe a bonus for taking me COMPLETELY UNAWARES.  :)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 3:07 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 05:20 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> >Umm..I'd like to report a keyboard kill here...Thanks a lot Mike..<BR>
> <BR>
> How many points?<BR>
> -- <BR>
> <BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 15:38:05 PST<BR>
From: "will richards" <willrichards@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Volume numbers  >Traveller-digest V1999 #1627<BR>
<BR>
>Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1627<BR>
<BR>
Ok guys so when is the Digest Volume number going to roll over?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
   Will<BR>
<BR>
should we take a pool?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:39:09 +0000<BR>
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
<BR>
In message <200001020014.SAA45318@pompano.pcola.gulf.net>,<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net writes<BR>
>Naught (not aught) or nought, depending on your spelling.  Naught<BR>
>means 0. As in "nineteen naught seven".<BR>
<BR>
I had a physics lecturer (elderly) who called 0 "aught".<BR>
- -- <BR>
Martin Hardgrave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:51:20 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
None of the Gamma world versions actually follow AD&D at all.  Maybe loosely<BR>
speaking, "D&D" but that's a slightly different animal.<BR>
<BR>
I'm lucky enough to own all the versions of Gamma world so here's a synopsis<BR>
:<BR>
<BR>
Precursor Edition(Metamorphosis Alpha) - nothing at all to do with AD&D or<BR>
D&D.<BR>
<BR>
1st Edition - closest to D&D 'flavor' with those silly look'em up to hit<BR>
charts but the armor class is actually backwards from D&D.<BR>
<BR>
2nd Edition - pretty much the same as first, just a bit more glitzy and<BR>
glamour and some rules and mutations tidied up.<BR>
<BR>
3rd Edition - basically Marvel Superheroes in a Gamma world setting<BR>
<BR>
4th Edition - revamped from 2nd Edition, adding skills and such.  Still a<BR>
different thing from AD&D.<BR>
<BR>
Post 4th Edition (Metamorphosis Alpha to Omega) - Revamped the precursor<BR>
Edition under the Amazing Engine's rules.<BR>
<BR>
5th Edition (Alternity setting) - All I know of this version is that it's a<BR>
stand-alone Alternity game.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 6:18 PM<BR>
Subject: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I'm pretty sure that Gamma World actually didn't have the same<BR>
mechanics as AD&D, but I haven't seen the oldest edition.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:43:17 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>>  ISTR one TML'er who had a "Palladium" page on his site, just to attract<BR>
>>>threatening e-mails from said company; there is, after all, an element of<BR>
>>>that name, so it was all perfectly innocent :)  I have to wonder if there<BR>
>>>was a good reason for feeling that KS&Co had that coming to them?<BR>
>><BR>
>>I am one who did. I Did recieve an email from a lawyer claiming to be KS's,<BR>
>>who told me to remove the page or else... I told him to read the page, and<BR>
>>sue me anyway; I'd love to eliminate KS's indefensible TM by virtue of the<BR>
>>term having been public domain for centuries. Never heard back.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>    KS would not send a lawyer after you, but his wife.  And, as long as you<BR>
>have the disclaimer on your web-site, you would not have to worry.  And, do<BR>
>not worry about the TMs, we don't.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Said page had no Palladium Games Related materials of any kind. It was a<BR>
page about the Ellement Palladium (Chem Sysmb Pd). I also made certain to<BR>
submit it to several search engines. Said page has been gone about 3 years<BR>
now; in the meantime, KS's policy on web pages has changed. (I suspect he<BR>
got a cease and desist letter...) Since I made no reference to his<BR>
trademark protected works, but to a term in the public domain and useage<BR>
well before he was even born, it would have been interesting to see the<BR>
fall out. This was during the time he was suing a number of individuals<BR>
over their websites. His company wrote a Cease and Desist letter to a local<BR>
Used Book store for putting up a Palladium Games poster while they had<BR>
several dozen items of PG stuff for sale used. He threatened to sue them to<BR>
force them to stop selling used Palladiumm Books materials. I've READ the<BR>
letter. The signature matched closely the one in Mechanoid Invasion. The<BR>
return address and postmark matched. I can't assure it was valid, but it<BR>
was enough to get them to take down the poster.<BR>
<BR>
I remember the rumor mill saying that KS was pursuing the computers upon<BR>
which web pages were posted... I don't know about that, but I do know that<BR>
there were several lawsuits by Palladium Games/ K. S. over TM infringement<BR>
and copyright infringement, reported in Protoculture Addicts.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:48:35 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/1/00 10:50:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, semo@pil.net <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< What really soured me on it was the<BR>
 heavy reliance on Chris Foss artwork. I really despise his style. >><BR>
<BR>
Actually, I like his style. I do agree with you that it's NOT Traveller, <BR>
however. They should have used someone else. I always liked Liz Danforth, and <BR>
Mr. Keith...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:57:06 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
>I'm pretty sure that Gamma World actually didn't have the same<BR>
>mechanics as AD&D, but I haven't seen the oldest edition.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I have a 1st edition AD&D DM's Guide (1979 printing, the year of my birth)<BR>
which contains conversion rules allowing AD&D characters to be played in a<BR>
BOOT HILL or GAMMA WORLD setting or vice versa. So presumeably at this time<BR>
they did not use the same ruleset.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:55:26 -0500<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 6:15 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >>Palladium's first offering was Mechanoids. Their next was Palladium<BR>
Fantasy.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Early 80's. The Mechanoid Invasion, 1981, format: Comic Book, cover<BR>
price<BR>
> >US$3.75<BR>
> >Palladium Fantasy came out shortly after, using almost identical rules.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Hero System had multiple genres by 1985, when I got into it.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >TSR had Boot Hill and AD&D on the same mechanics by 81, and IIRC, gamma<BR>
> world.<BR>
><BR>
> I knew about Gamma World back in 1980 -- and it had game mechanics<BR>
identical<BR>
> to those of AD&D. So if all it takes to be called a "multi-genre game" is<BR>
> to have the same or similar game mechanics in two different games, then<BR>
TSR<BR>
> did it first, before The Mechanoid Invasion.<BR>
><BR>
> Palladium's Multi-Genre RPG is "Rifts", which didn't come along until<BR>
1990,<BR>
> 4 years after GURPS. Palladium may try to claim that it was the first<BR>
multi-<BR>
> genre game, but their claim is based on "multi-genre game" being defined<BR>
as<BR>
> they themselves define it.<BR>
><BR>
> (I remember The Mechanoid Invasion, though I didn't remember who published<BR>
> it. It sucked. Big time. Now I know why. Besides, what's so great about<BR>
> being *first*? Even if Palladium *was* the first, it's still munchkin<BR>
crap.)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Humm, if I were to guess (and I really wish I still had copies to check) I'd<BR>
have to concider Metagamings small "micro-game" sets, that lead to the<BR>
Fantasy Trip books (Wizard, Man-to-Man, or some such), as being in the Fist<BR>
multi-genre race. The rules were simple and were quite capable of being used<BR>
in any genere. In fact I think a SF suppliment was written to the rules<BR>
(something like Star Guard or Star Force, like I said I'd give a lot to have<BR>
the games back to reference right now). Guess what? If memory serves, a<BR>
writer, who was soon to go it on his own wrote those books, I think the guys<BR>
name was Steve unh, hum, Jakeson, Janson... no Jackson, yeah that's it!<BR>
Timing early to mid-eighties I believe.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 15:53:37 -0800<BR>
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
At 04:49 PM 1/2/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Loren: to you and the staff of SJG, from Stevie on down - I can't<BR>
>control the words or actions of other members of this list.  I<BR>
>can assure you that _I_ do not agree with certain sentiments<BR>
>posted here, and I am reasonably sure that there are others that<BR>
>share my opinion.  I also apologise for the fact that my culture<BR>
>has managed to degrade to the point that the rudeness portrayed<BR>
>in certain posts to this list has come to be seen as acceptable<BR>
>in public.<BR>
<BR>
This isn't a heap-praise-on-SJ-Games email list.  This the Traveller <BR>
Mailing List.  I expect Traveller fans of every incarnation of the game to <BR>
be talking about it in whatever shape or form they see fit.  From my <BR>
perspective, that includes CT/MT/TNE/T4/GT & T5, regardless of what one <BR>
might think of a particular version of Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
The fact that someone seems to be ranting about a particular company being <BR>
comparable to an agent of the antichrist, I tend to ignore.  I mean, come <BR>
on. . . this is the net.  Go to any rpg usenet discussion groups, pick any <BR>
game company (White Wolf, SJ Games, WotC, Palladium, Fill-In-The-Blank) and <BR>
just watch people bash it.  Unfortunately, it's nothing new.  Fanatics are <BR>
fanatics.  They defend their game and tear apart others with all the <BR>
mindlessness of a rabid attack dog.  It's like arguing about if Star Trek <BR>
is better than B5.  Who cares?  Go with what you like, and stay away from <BR>
what you don't.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
BTW, I don't monitor this list just because the company that I work for is <BR>
producing Traveller licensed material. I subscribed to the TML because I <BR>
seriously dig the Traveller universe.  Ever since Dullinor shot a few slugs <BR>
into Strephon I have been a hard core fan of the setting, in *all* of it's <BR>
various time periods.<BR>
<BR>
Ignore my MIB badge, and focus on the Traveller fan in me.  I am definitely <BR>
not recording and sending logs of everything you are typing to the bunker <BR>
in Austin.  Nope.  Definitely not.  Just look directly into this flashing <BR>
red light and I'll explain everything. . .<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com<BR>
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com<BR>
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com<BR>
  IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+<BR>
_________________________________________________________ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:19:08 -0500<BR>
From: "Craig Lytton" <polecat@ezwv.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
<BR>
My PERSONAL OPINION is that K. Siembeida is the biggest ass in the RPG<BR>
industry.  Rift is a poorly designed system.<BR>
The MEGA damage system is ridiculous.  At one time I chose to ignore the<BR>
pompous arrogance of K.S. and bought Rifts to give it a fair try, but found<BR>
it unworkable.  Try running around without some sort of MEGA armored suit<BR>
when there are hand to hand weapons that can do 100-400 HP damage.  (To be<BR>
fair, I may be wrong about this since its been a few years since I used that<BR>
Rifts book to line the bottom of the litter box).    THis seems pretty<BR>
restrictive on certain types of characters and adventures.<BR>
<BR>
My favorite K. Siembeida story:<BR>
<BR>
I remember the old Battletech "Recon Lance" miniatures set.  It had a small<BR>
sticker proclaiming "Recon is a trademark of Palladium Games".  I hope the<BR>
military field manuals have a disclaimer, have Palladium Games' lawyers<BR>
looked into that one????<BR>
<BR>
Craig<BR>
<BR>
disclaimer:  Recon, Rifts, Mega damage class, Legate Legion, and Kevin<BR>
Siembeida are either trademarked or copyrighted by Palladium Games.<BR>
I am making no attempt to challenge those trademarks or copyrights.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
> At 07:54 PM 1/2/2000 GMT, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >Wishing the employees of a company dead because you don't personally like<BR>
> >their products is, in my extremely humble opinion, a little too harsh.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >iSteve now prepares for the flames.....<BR>
><BR>
> You can take off that abestous suit, you make perfect sense.<BR>
><BR>
> To make it clear.. I despise Palladium games.  I think their rukles are<BR>
> awful, munchkin-creating, abberations caused by Kevin Siembeida's<BR>
inability<BR>
> to design his way out of a paper sack.<BR>
><BR>
> I find most Rifts players to be munchkins, more concerned with killing<BR>
more<BR>
> and more things with bigger and bigger guns that roleplaying.  Kevin<BR>
> Siembedia himself is a jerk, as anybody who has ever posted a webpage or<BR>
> message about one of his game syatems has found out.<BR>
><BR>
> What do I do about it?  I don't buy his games.<BR>
> --<BR>
><BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:07:10 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 1:18:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
wombat@premier.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< In response to those who have made personal attacks on Evil Stevie<BR>
 himself, I ask five questions:<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Bravo! I too have met him twice. Once at I CON back in the 80's and last year <BR>
I volunteered to work his booth at the GAMA convention. He's a grade A mensch <BR>
(Yiddish for man). I also met Gene Seebolt and David Pulver briefly at GAMA. <BR>
Also good folks...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:08:15 -0500<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jory Earl <j-man@iname.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 5:20 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Umm..I'd like to report a keyboard kill here...Thanks a lot Mike..<BR>
> ___________________________________________________________<BR>
>  J-Man<BR>
>  ICQ# 2843475<BR>
>  New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
>  Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
>  Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
> ___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
Thank you J-Man, the apprptiate kill sticker is now in place on my monitor!<BR>
Hey has anyone checked, is this the first official "kill" of the New Year?<BR>
<BR>
Mike (incredably smug, regardless, and who's familly is now looking at<BR>
strangely as he hums Taps!)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 19:11:26 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. Trav<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 08:56:55<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
>Given LL's remarks about wanting to kill GURPS players, I wonder about what<BR>
>really happened at that game store incident.<BR>
<BR>
Who knows? Previously the TML seemed fairly free of LL's brand of bigoted<BR>
trolling. Perhaps if we ignore him he'll find a bridge on usenet he can haunt.<BR>
  <BR>
<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 16:19:14 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/00 at 03:28 PM,  "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>What's wrong with that, I ask?<BR>
<BR>
If that's what you want to do, nothing.<BR>
<BR>
In my old FTF group I had a fellow that *always* played "Julio the<BR>
Bold" no matter what the game or genre.  It didn't bother any of us<BR>
and he was good at playing his fantasy self.  However, and here's<BR>
the difference, in every case there were a few things different<BR>
about Julio.  He would have a slightly different skill set and<BR>
levels within those skills, backgrounds, and motivations.<BR>
Personally, I wouldn't like to play, or ref, a character that was<BR>
*exactly* the same every time. <BR>
<BR>
I like game systems to have a good random character generation<BR>
system.  I don't want *everyone* to play randomly generated<BR>
characters, but I do want the option of random generation.<BR>
<BR>
See, I use random character generation as *guidelines*, as a<BR>
starting point, not something written in stone.  I prefer working<BR>
with a player while they create their character (or with the Ref<BR>
when I'm the player), doesn't always work out that way, but it's<BR>
what I prefer.  If the player comes in with a concept, we kick it<BR>
around, get comfortable with it, and *build* a character.  We use<BR>
random chargen as much, or as little, as we want for flavor.<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, when the player comes in without a clue...okay, no concept<BR>
<g>..., we use the random chargen to stimulate ideas.  If something<BR>
pops up interesting we run with it, if the rolls don't strike a<BR>
spark we keep tinkering.  Yes, that means we might reroll stats<BR>
several times, might toss out rolls altogether and pick a stat,<BR>
skill, school, or event in the PC's development.  It also means that<BR>
a character might *end* up being most anything, and that's OK as<BR>
long as both the player and the ref like the result.<BR>
<BR>
Completely, random characters? Sure, I've done that too. <g><BR>
<BR>
Finally, let me point out that some people want to know everything<BR>
possible about their character, some want to know almost *nothing*<BR>
before starting the game, and there is a continuum between those two<BR>
extremes.  Personally, if you give me an "archtype" I'm ready to<BR>
play, the character will reveal details about himself during play.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 16:17:31 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: games design<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Subject: Re: games design<BR>
...<BR>
>> >To make it clear.. I despise Palladium games.  I think their rukles are<BR>
>> >awful, munchkin-creating, abberations caused by Kevin Siembeida's<BR>
>> >inability to design his way out of a paper sack.<BR>
>> <BR>
>>   ISTR that when I played it was clearly a hackneyed rip-off of AD&D (as<BR>
>> was everything by TSR - hey, "Alternity" means that they're _still_ doing it!<BR>
...<BR>
>I rather like Alternity (it's a damn good space opera, IMO), and I <BR>
>don't see a huge amount of AD&D in it (the stats are about it). In fact <BR>
>IMO it owes more to Traveller, especially TNE than to AD&D. <BR>
<BR>
  If I were looking for an SF game these days I'd probably pass on Alternity<BR>
in no small part due to the cost (what, $45 CDN is $30 US per hardcover);<BR>
it's a moot point for various reasons, not least that if I'm going to do<BR>
space opera I'm going to do something rather less campy than Alternity. Is<BR>
it just me, or do they seem to be having a lot of art done that features<BR>
hand to hand weapons and body piercings? :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:13:59 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 1:21:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
legate@futureone.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  For example, at my FLGS we were going to refight the final battle of the<BR>
 Dominion War using LUG ST:TNG rules along with Star Fleet Battles & we had<BR>
 reserved the huge table they keep there for it & when we showed up to play,<BR>
 GURPS players were using our table & would not leave because they were there<BR>
 first.  Also several of our minis, that we all kitbashed to create, ended up<BR>
 in their pockets, I had to fight to get back my mini of the Soveriegn Class,<BR>
 USS Stephan Decatur from one because he claimed that it was his, & it could<BR>
 not have been, but he said that SJG had put it out & he had bought it.<BR>
     I did forget thieving trolls as well, but I am not going to go that far. <BR>
>><BR>
<BR>
What do Putzhead GURPS players have to do with SJG's being bad? That's like <BR>
saying that all of the idiot rednecks in their giant 4x4 pickups make Dodge <BR>
and Ford bad. SJG's and GURPS are NOT responsible for idiot munchkins. I say <BR>
this and I don't even play it. I just buy the GT stuff for reference until T5 <BR>
comes out. I still think SJ is one of the good guys...BTW; did you guys get <BR>
all the minis back from those jerks? You should also tell the owner of the <BR>
FLGS. If they steal from you, odds are that they steal from the store <BR>
too...:-(<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1635<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1636<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Palladium<BR>
RE: SJG bashing<BR>
[none]<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: Horses<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
Re: Unfriendly Local Gaming Stores<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie<BR>
Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
Re: games design<BR>
Re: Question, not flame bait<BR>
Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
Re: T5 (I'm not going to respond to the former title: Re: GURPS vs. T5?)<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Baiting for Lawsuits<BR>
Vs: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
Re: MODERATOR:<BR>
Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
Re: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: OT Gunbunny notice<BR>
There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
Re: jurisdiction issues in the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 16:20:03 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Subject: Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
...<BR>
>>   I don't know for sure about Palladium (I stopped following their crap<BR>
>> closely a number of years ago) but FGU wasn't multi-genre in the sense<BR>
>> that you didn't buy "core rules" plus (moderately priced) world book, it<BR>
>> was just "boxed set of rules, typically with world info edited into each<BR>
>> book". I still should have kept Bushido, though :(<BR>
><BR>
>I too don't know about Palladium's recent stuff, but LL (?) claimed <BR>
>that Palladium had the first multi-genre game, and for that to be the <BR>
>case you'd have to use the very loose definition I used, and as I said <BR>
>even then I have my doubts. Using the tighter one I think there may <BR>
>have been something before GURPS. I can't recall when Hero/Champions <BR>
>first had non-superhero stuff published for it, but it may have come first.<BR>
<BR>
  Heck, D&D had an SF module implied in the Blackmoor content! :>  But <BR>
in terms of the other concept (i.e., core generic rules and then add-on<BR>
modules as desired) I'm not sure what does come first - it just wasn't<BR>
FGU, `cuz they never did that (AFAIK).<BR>
<BR>
  Is Palladium really multi-genre or just lots of different gamebooks<BR>
loosely connected by a rules system? I hadn't heard a serious suggestion<BR>
that TMNT and Robotech were different modules of the same system.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:15:13 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 1:22:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
legate@futureone.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< I was on the football team, I was in the latin & chess clubs >><BR>
 <BR>
You did BOTH of these at the same time? You REALLY had cojones....:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 19:23:44 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Palladium<BR>
<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
<BR>
>I find most Rifts players to be munchkins, more concerned with killing more<BR>
>and more things with bigger and bigger guns that roleplaying.  Kevin<BR>
>Siembedia himself is a jerk, as anybody who has ever posted a webpage or<BR>
>message about one of his game syatems has found out.<BR>
<BR>
I don't find Palladium's game designs much to my taste either, but in<BR>
fairness, a couple of freelancers I know who worked with Seimbedia say he<BR>
dealt very professionally and his company always paid on time. I believe<BR>
they may have loosened their web policy up a bit lately (much as WOTC has<BR>
with ex-TSR's).<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 16:17:45 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
Right on Brother!  "Can't we all just get along?"<BR>
<BR>
Better watch it, or I'll sick Ditzie on you malcontents ;)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
Tascelt@aol.com<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 3:06 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
This is the same problem I have found with my ellow sci-fi fans.  In stead<BR>
of<BR>
saying, "I personally am not into that so I wont watch/play it" and leave it<BR>
at that, people have to attack, nit-pick, bring down.  All this does is<BR>
weaken Role Playing.  The less role playing systems and companies there are<BR>
,<BR>
the weaker the industry will be.  Just as the sci-fi fans who have to debate<BR>
weather Star Trek is better than Babylon 5 or not, ect... all this does is<BR>
divide our group so that it is easier to be "conquered."  You don't like<BR>
SJG-GURPS or any of that (reguardless of the reason) then excersise your<BR>
freedom to not play that system.  Play another one, come up with your own,<BR>
what ever.  To insult the ones who do play it, make it, own it, ect is<BR>
Juvenile and divisive, and ultimately bad for all RPGs in the end.<BR>
<BR>
TAS<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:21:26 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>>    At least I have offended you, personally, I really do not care, as if<BR>
>>this is the state of Traveller, I suggest we split the TML.  One list of<BR>
>>CT/MT/T4 players, one list for TNE players, & one list for GT players.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Legate Legion<BR>
><BR>
>    How about one list for us and . . .<BR>
><BR>
>    Have you noticed that NOone supports you in this? I'd drop it if I were<BR>
>you, your not convincing anyone of anything except that your a bigot.<BR>
><BR>
Actually, some of us do support the idea of separate GT an CT/MT lists.<BR>
Like myself.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:28:45 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 9:22:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
wombat@premier.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Well, that's a 1.0, anyway. >><BR>
<BR>
Ditto...I chuckled...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 18:27:54 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Horses<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/00 at 06:25 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
<BR>
>> This isn't something that Traveller (even High Guard) has ever done,<BR>
>> but what about limiting the volume of ships by Tech Level?  As the<BR>
>> TL goes up, the maximum volume of ships also goes up. <BR>
<BR>
>There's no rational reason for a volume limit for most aspects of a ship.<BR>
>But *jump drives* having a TL related volume limit would fit nicely. <BR>
<BR>
That's what I meant.  <g> Of course, IMTU maneuver is via stl<BR>
stutterjump based on the same physics as jump drives, so maximum<BR>
volume would affect them as well...IMTU.<BR>
<BR>
>Also, if you use the more realistic sets of design rules, you quickly run<BR>
>into problems getting enough *surface area* for radiators for really big<BR>
>ships. Either that or they and under-powered snails.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, you do and yes I use such rules. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:30:53 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 9:28:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Ah, making terrorist threats?<BR>
 <BR>
 I am a writer for Steve Jackson Games.  You are more than welcome to try it<BR>
 with me.  Just name the place.<BR>
 --  >><BR>
<BR>
WOAH!!!!! Let's notch it down several orders of magnitude here please...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:34:23 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 9:42:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, tiamat@tsoft.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< as I tried to explain to a D & D ref<BR>
 when I told him that I wasn't interested in being in his campaign because<BR>
 everyone had to start out REALLY poor because that's the way most people<BR>
 were back then.  >><BR>
<BR>
I bet you would REALLY hate Harn then...:-) (I vaguely remember something <BR>
about most PC's starting out as peasants...).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:34:38 -0000<BR>
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
I think its time that we put this topic to bed for another year.<BR>
<BR>
People are very passionate about their RPG systems and never like criticism.<BR>
Everyone has their own favorite version of Traveller (mine is CT) and a<BR>
version they dislike (I'm afraid its a toss up between TNE & GURPS), but it<BR>
is this rich tapestry that makes Traveller a fine RPG.<BR>
<BR>
I personally don't rate GURPS Traveller (if it ain't broke don't just fix it<BR>
for fixing sake), but acknowledge that Steve Jackson Games have managed to<BR>
keep the Traveller flame burning for another few years. I also acknowledge<BR>
that the game has a sound following amongst members of the list.<BR>
<BR>
I am sure that Legate now regrets the majority of his comments and put his<BR>
ranting down to immaturity. If the majority of the list thinks he should be<BR>
excluded then, so be it, but I really do not think that he wished any<BR>
supporter, contributor or employee of Steve Jackson Games any harm.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, let's move forward into the New Millenium on a positive note and<BR>
leave this bickering behind us. Remember, we all have T5 to look forward to<BR>
in the coming year (if Marc Miller has learned the mistakes from T4).<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Ferris<BR>
stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 16:41:11 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
<BR>
>From: Bill Rutherford <worj@home.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
><BR>
>What about Chaosium?<BR>
...<BR>
>they supported at ALL?) but they demonstrated, early on, that the Chaosium <BR>
>system wasn't limited to Glorantha.  Call of Cthulhu hit the streets right <BR>
>about then, too. Elric wasn't far behind, either...<BR>
<BR>
  And Ringworld! :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 16:41:25 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Unfriendly Local Gaming Stores<BR>
<BR>
>From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
>Subject: Unfriendly Local Gaming Stores (was Re: Dragon Magazine on CD)<BR>
...<BR>
>>  Luckily, Warehouse 23 now does mail-order of SJ Games (and BITS, and <BR>
>>Atlas, etc., I presume) stuff through an associated company from Calgary,<BR>
>>so Canadian gamers don't have to pay 40% shipping plus GST, PST & a $5<BR>
>>customs processing charge; it's cheap (to free at $80 US) shipping plus<BR>
>>7% GST (well, Albertans get to add their PST, but that's zero % <snarl>).<BR>
><BR>
>Cool. So I won't have to bug my friends in Seattle anymore. :)<BR>
<BR>
  Ohio. California. The _UK_. And you have to get your loot forwarded<BR>
from Seattle - poor diddums :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:41:24 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 10:50:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Along with unique activities and items.. I may actually pitch this to SJG<BR>
 after I'm done with GF. >><BR>
<BR>
At least get it published in pyramid as a variant...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 17:40:35 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
<BR>
>Said page had no Palladium Games Related materials of any kind. It was a<BR>
>page about the Ellement Palladium (Chem Sysmb Pd). I also made certain to<BR>
>submit it to several search engines. Said page has been gone about 3 years<BR>
>now; in the meantime, KS's policy on web pages has changed. (I suspect he<BR>
>got a cease and desist letter...) Since I made no reference to his<BR>
>trademark protected works, but to a term in the public domain and useage<BR>
>well before he was even born, it would have been interesting to see the<BR>
>fall out. <BR>
<BR>
Don't you just love it when someone threatens to sue when they have<BR>
absolutely <BR>
no legal basis for it? Reminds me of the time Disney sued West Edmonton Mall<BR>
over the the name of the mall's amusement park, "Fantasyland". Disney won <BR>
the suit, and the park was renamed "Galaxyland". But during the suit, it was<BR>
also mentioned that Disney had sent a letter to the government of one of the<BR>
eastern provinces (PEI? New Brunswick?) threatening to sue for copyright<BR>
infringement over "Fantasy Land Provincial Park", which was first opened back<BR>
in 1932, well before Disneyland...<BR>
<BR>
(Then there was the time when I was working for a provincial government<BR>
library, and a publisher threatened to take us to court for non-payment of<BR>
the federal sales tax, even though provincial governments don't have to pay<BR>
GST. When they threatened to take us to court, our reaction was "Go ahead!<BR>
We dare you! We double dare you!". They didn't.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:42:08 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: games design<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 16:17, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>   If I were looking for an SF game these days I'd probably pass on<BR>
>   Alternity<BR>
> in no small part due to the cost (what, $45 CDN is $30 US per hardcover);<BR>
> it's a moot point for various reasons, not least that if I'm going to do<BR>
> space opera I'm going to do something rather less campy than Alternity. Is<BR>
> it just me, or do they seem to be having a lot of art done that features<BR>
> hand to hand weapons and body piercings? :)<BR>
<BR>
When it first arrived here in NZ it was reasonably priced compared to <BR>
everything else. It probably still is, but with our current exchange <BR>
rate I'm only buying imports that I really want/need. This <BR>
unfortunately means no G:T stuff for quite a while, as I'm not likely <BR>
to be running a Trav game for some time.<BR>
<BR>
As for the art - I too have noticed Alternity seems well into body <BR>
piercings, but it's not all melee weapons - there are plenty of honking <BR>
big guns, too.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:46:37 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Question, not flame bait<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 11:40:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
schwarz@fas.harvard.edu writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< I warmly welcome discussion over these *facts* (which is what history is<BR>
 all about, not *interpretations*). >><BR>
<BR>
You are a twisted, evil, EVIL man, Kenji-sama (?). Seriously; that's a 1.0 on <BR>
the keyboard meter (you got a chuckle out of me...:-))<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 19:52:35 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
><BR>
>I am asking the Legate Legion either be removed from the Traveller Mailing<BR>
>List, or be suspended for a thirty day cooling off period.  During which<BR>
>time he can re-think the wisdom of telling people that he wants to see them<BR>
>burned for what games they play.<BR>
<BR>
Seconded.<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:51:41 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 12:09:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< The whole point of the excercise is to have fun. >><BR>
<BR>
I concur. In my old gaming group, it got to the point that whenever I <BR>
submitted a character to the GM (first C+S and then Runequest), everybody <BR>
would chant "Oh no! It's Sgt. Stuart XXIII (or whatever high number they <BR>
liked)." I would turn beet red, but I LIKED playing medieval mounted <BR>
sergeantry trying to earn his silver spurs...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 14:00:09 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 16:20, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>   Heck, D&D had an SF module implied in the Blackmoor content! :>  But in<BR>
> terms of the other concept (i.e., core generic rules and then add-on<BR>
> modules as desired) I'm not sure what does come first - it just wasn't<BR>
> FGU, `cuz they never did that (AFAIK).<BR>
<BR>
I never meant to imply that FGU did, merely that if Palladium counted <BR>
as multi genre, so did Aftermath, etc. BTW the (A)D&D SF module is more <BR>
than implied - it exists and is quite nasty.<BR>
<BR>
>   Is Palladium really multi-genre or just lots of different gamebooks<BR>
> loosely connected by a rules system? I hadn't heard a serious suggestion<BR>
> that TMNT and Robotech were different modules of the same system.<BR>
<BR>
IMO it's not really, even including Rifts. From what I've seen Rifts <BR>
isn't multi genre, it's just that you get to apply munchkin sized <BR>
weapons to assorted enemies over many different worlds. That does not a <BR>
multi genre game make - merely munchkin splatter.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:02:18 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: T5 (I'm not going to respond to the former title: Re: GURPS vs. T5?)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 12:16:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< I think it would be smart for T5 to be compatible with GURPS in a<BR>
 number of ways so the GURPS supplements could be used.  I think that<BR>
 could be done and still be different in certain key areas making it<BR>
 more Travellerisk.  >><BR>
<BR>
BINGO!!!! Marc MUST (in my opinion...) do this, or T5 will fail to sell to <BR>
anybody outside the TML...I also think he and Steve (or Loren in a pinch) <BR>
should have a sit-down and figure out a way for these two games to COMPLEMENT <BR>
each other, and not undercut each other's sales... The ideal would for the <BR>
gamer to buy the supplements and rules he/she likes. As an example; I'm not a <BR>
GURPS player. I do have ALL the GT stuff for reference, but don't use the <BR>
GURPS rulebook. I would like to buy T5 and be able to use my GT stuff with <BR>
the T5 rules. A GURPS player would obviously not buy the T5 rules, but would <BR>
buy the supplements if they are GURPS compatible. Thus he/she can play GURPS <BR>
Trav in a T5 Milieu 0 or 200 setting for example. I hope that Marc and Loren <BR>
and Steve consider this approach...<BR>
<BR>
Seth<BR>
<BR>
BTW; can we PLEASE can the SJG flame NOW!!!!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:10:29 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
>>    Have you noticed that NOone supports you in this? I'd drop it if I<BR>
were<BR>
>>you, your not convincing anyone of anything except that your a bigot.<BR>
>><BR>
>Actually, some of us do support the idea of separate GT an CT/MT lists.<BR>
>Like myself.<BR>
>William F.<BR>
<BR>
    Knowing that your a reasonable guy I'll ask you "why?" and know I'll get<BR>
a reasonable answer.<BR>
    I must admit that being a MegaTraveller fan/apologist/cultist I'm often<BR>
lost when TNE topics come up but I can usually panel-beat them into<BR>
something usefull for MTU. There's such a good cross section of ideas at TML<BR>
it would be a shame to lose someones input. How about just writing the era<BR>
your topic relates to in the subjetc line, such as:<BR>
<BR>
    Re: Drop Tanks (PreTNE)<BR>
<BR>
Or a similiar edifice, that way you could try and keep a thread basically On<BR>
Topic.<BR>
    Just a thought.<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 17:15:16 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
...<BR>
>What do Putzhead GURPS players have to do with SJG's being bad? That's like <BR>
>saying that all of the idiot rednecks in their giant 4x4 pickups make Dodge <BR>
>and Ford bad. SJG's and GURPS are NOT responsible for idiot munchkins. I say<BR>
>this and I don't even play it. I just buy the GT stuff for reference until T5<BR>
>comes out. I still think SJ is one of the good guys...BTW; did you guys get <BR>
<BR>
  GT as proto-T5 supplements - hey, me too! I figure that as the CT/MT/T4<BR>
rules were all acceptable to me, then so should T5, and I know enough of<BR>
GURPS to convert stuff.<BR>
<BR>
  Hey, BITS better have a crack team of analysts ready to provide rules<BR>
conversion support of their products for when T5 comes out!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 17:15:57 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Baiting for Lawsuits<BR>
<BR>
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
>Subject: Re Baiting for Lawsuits (Was GT v T5)<BR>
...<BR>
>>  IMHO, Palladium publishes second rate filler, but that doesn't warrant<BR>
>>further comments about their business practices, character, or complete<BR>
>>disdain for editing and the English language.<BR>
><BR>
>Palladium had some great ideas. Unfortunately, they suffer from other problems.<BR>
<BR>
  Great art too, for the vast majority, although the themes of the art<BR>
(almost all of their books feature giant robot tank silliness, which<BR>
only seems to encourage the munchkins) don't impress me. OTOH, Space <BR>
Opera had humans in rubber suits for aliens with racial names to match :><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 02:58:39 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Vs: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
> TSR had Boot Hill and AD&D on the same mechanics by 81, and IIRC, gamma world.<BR>
> <BR>
Gamma World has mechanics differing from AD&D and closer to Marvel Superheroes RPG, also from TSR.<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 17:25:36 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: MODERATOR:<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
...<BR>
>I am asking the Legate Legion either be removed from the Traveller Mailing<BR>
>List, or be suspended for a thirty day cooling off period.  During which<BR>
>time he can re-think the wisdom of telling people that he wants to see them<BR>
>burned for what games they play.<BR>
<BR>
  Don't hold your breath; Clif went on (often interspersed with useful<BR>
ObTravs, admittedly) for many weeks. IIRC, it was only after he wasn't<BR>
kicked out that he got really offensive and various people left the list.<BR>
i.e., the list is neither moderated (not that that is practical or even<BR>
desirable) nor really subject to supervision - if Clif was any example then<BR>
either putting up with this loon or quitting his list are your only options.<BR>
<BR>
Kinda sad. But if you do leave, just don't take all of the penguins with you.<BR>
hey, why aren't you over on Pyramid, anyway - they're not openly anti-Templar!<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
  <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:27:15 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
<BR>
>Don't you just love it when someone threatens to sue when they have<BR>
>absolutely<BR>
>no legal basis for it<BR>
>     Glenn St-Germain<BR>
<BR>
    I'm a big fan of Twilight 2000 and over at the T2K BBS at Town Hall it<BR>
was put forward that if the owners of the copyright had no plans for the<BR>
game and wouldn't sell, well, why don't we write our own? Surely you can't<BR>
copyright World War Three?<BR>
    An insightful list member pointed out that they can't Win the court case<BR>
but the can sue you 'till your broke defending yourself. Even if you win.<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:29:10 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Craig Lytton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I remember the old Battletech "Recon Lance" miniatures set.  It had a small<BR>
> sticker proclaiming "Recon is a trademark of Palladium Games".  I hope the<BR>
> military field manuals have a disclaimer, have Palladium Games' lawyers<BR>
> looked into that one????<BR>
<BR>
Weeeeel... considering how successful Amazon.com has been suing various<BR>
businesses around the country for use of the word "Amazon" in their names,<BR>
who knows?  Palladium Games might get a settlement out of the DOD.  Hell,<BR>
SJG beat the feds, right?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:32:33 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Stuart Ferris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I think its time that we put this topic to bed for another year.<BR>
<BR>
AWWWWWWWW!!!!  But it's only the 2nd!  It's sooooo eaaaaarrrrllyyyyy!  I<BR>
don' wanna put it to bed yet!  Pleeeeeeeezzeeee?<BR>
<BR>
(Waiting for Ditzie to join in...)<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:32:39 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: OT Gunbunny notice<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 12:46:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
dom@cybergoths.u-net.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< <BR>
 The UK press release says they've already stopped making the .45? >><BR>
<BR>
some versions. There are still two in production along with single action .45 <BR>
long colt revolvers. Cowboy reenactment is BIG in the US southwest...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 17:28:31 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
<BR>
I just can't remember his name right now for the life of me...<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Steven<BR>
Hudson<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 5:26 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: MODERATOR:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
...<BR>
>I am asking the Legate Legion either be removed from the Traveller Mailing<BR>
>List, or be suspended for a thirty day cooling off period.  During which<BR>
>time he can re-think the wisdom of telling people that he wants to see them<BR>
>burned for what games they play.<BR>
<BR>
  Don't hold your breath; Clif went on (often interspersed with useful<BR>
ObTravs, admittedly) for many weeks. IIRC, it was only after he wasn't<BR>
kicked out that he got really offensive and various people left the list.<BR>
i.e., the list is neither moderated (not that that is practical or even<BR>
desirable) nor really subject to supervision - if Clif was any example then<BR>
either putting up with this loon or quitting his list are your only options.<BR>
<BR>
Kinda sad. But if you do leave, just don't take all of the penguins with<BR>
you.<BR>
hey, why aren't you over on Pyramid, anyway - they're not openly<BR>
anti-Templar!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:38:13 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: jurisdiction issues in the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I agree completely that Imperial military and Scout personnel on<BR>
> duty are exempt from any enforcement of the member state's<BR>
> criminal laws, but not because that avoids litigation against<BR>
> any government.  Rather, it's because the Imperial military and<BR>
> Scouts need protection from local law in order to do their work.<BR>
<BR>
Okay.  Does anything protect local law, and local citizens, from Imperial<BR>
military procedures on their planet?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1636<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1637</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1637<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Re: Unfriendly Local Gaming Stores<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Universal Law Profile<BR>
Re: FW: Goverment Overkill<BR>
Re: Spacer Folklore<BR>
Re: OT Gunbunny notice<BR>
re: Megacorps<BR>
powder explosions was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1599<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: More....<BR>
Traveller Game in San Francisco<BR>
Re: [none]<BR>
Re: jurisdiction issues in the Imperium<BR>
Re: Harn <BR>
Posting volume<BR>
Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message<BR>
Re: Separate Lists<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:38:00 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 1:03:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
legate@futureone.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Jesse, it might be.  I know that they sent an email to you, while I was<BR>
 in the store.  I had recommended you to them because of the quality of your<BR>
 artwork, to tell you the truth, your artwork would be the only reason I<BR>
 bought anything for GURPS - Traveller.<BR>
 <BR>
 Legate Legion<BR>
 ICQ # 8973001<BR>
 legate@futureone.com<BR>
 http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm >><BR>
<BR>
LL; can you please do me a favor. Next time you're in the FGU store, can you <BR>
please give them my E mail address and have them give it to Scott Bizar? I'm <BR>
an old friend of his. I've phoned the store several times, and they say they <BR>
will give it to Scott, but I never hear from them...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:39:51 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
Damn it, I'm *trying* to get the penguins in here.  Compared to my current<BR>
dormmates, they're probably better housebroken, just for starters.<BR>
*Screw* the family of humanity!<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Kenji..Don't MAKE ME SEND in the PENGUINS......:)<BR>
> ___________________________________________________________<BR>
>  J-Man<BR>
>  ICQ# 2843475<BR>
>  New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
>  Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
>  Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
> ___________________________________________________________<BR>
> <BR>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
> From: "Kenji Schwarz" <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 6:02 PM<BR>
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > > Kiri, I just want you to know you don't have to belong to any special<BR>
> > > community in order to be 'family'.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > As with Doug's sly and ludicrous claim of not wanting to damage anyone's<BR>
> > hardware -- speak for yourself! :)<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Kenji<BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:40:31 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
> > you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
> > Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
> <BR>
> Ooooh, Look! Another button to push. Oh, wait - it's Kenji, that <BR>
> doesn't count :)<BR>
<BR>
New Year's resolution #1: get a second email account under a wildly<BR>
different name.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:45:15 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
<BR>
*Not* seconded.  If I demanded that everyone who made direct promises or<BR>
indirect comments about killing me be suspended or removed from the list,<BR>
a couple of the true luminaries would be gone -- including, for that<BR>
matter, Doug Berry.<BR>
<BR>
I have a delete key (which I confess I misuse terribly); ignorance is<BR>
bliss; Legate Legion need trouble me no more!<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, David L. Pulver wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> ><BR>
> >I am asking the Legate Legion either be removed from the Traveller Mailing<BR>
> >List, or be suspended for a thirty day cooling off period.  During which<BR>
> >time he can re-think the wisdom of telling people that he wants to see them<BR>
> >burned for what games they play.<BR>
> <BR>
> Seconded.<BR>
>  _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
>      David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
> 		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
>  Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
>              dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:43:08 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Unfriendly Local Gaming Stores<BR>
<BR>
>  Ohio. California. The _UK_.<BR>
<BR>
Nah, we have it easy in the UK - we just buy from BITS. Nice and easy (and<BR>
cheap!).<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
+++<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:46:13 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 1:03:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
legate@futureone.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  Look Doug, two things, congrats about the cancer thing, us cancer<BR>
 survivors have to stick together, second, do not try & change my mind about<BR>
 SJ, it will not happen. >><BR>
<BR>
Fine; kiss and make up and drop this stupid thread you two...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:56:40 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
These Penguins are packing HEAT.  <evil grin><BR>
<BR>
Every penguin's favorite : a Tommy gun.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kenji Schwarz" <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 8:39 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Damn it, I'm *trying* to get the penguins in here.  Compared to my current<BR>
> dormmates, they're probably better housebroken, just for starters.<BR>
> *Screw* the family of humanity!<BR>
><BR>
> Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:57:04 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 1:36:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< I am asking the Legate Legion either be removed from the Traveller Mailing<BR>
 List, or be suspended for a thirty day cooling off period. >><BR>
<BR>
I would prefer the suspension to removal. He HAS been insightful in the <BR>
past...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:24:49 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Universal Law Profile<BR>
<BR>
Steve Daniels asked me to post the following as he is experiencing <BR>
difficulties getting to the TML with posts:<BR>
<BR>
SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 23:15 -0500 28/12/99, Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
> > >    ObTrav: The difference between statutory law and<BR>
> ><BR>
> >The law of the system you're travelling to is<BR>
> >something to consider.<BR>
><BR>
> Maybe you guys and gals could put your heads together and come up<BR>
> with a system for rating the intrusiveness of law on Imperial<BR>
> planets. You could rate it on the hex scale 0-F for example.<BR>
<BR>
In the Milieu 0 Hardcover there is a Universal Law Profile:<BR>
2D-7 + Government Type (note: not Law Level, LL to be<BR>
used for casual encounters)<BR>
<BR>
Armament:  traditional Trav LL dscription: all weapons to no weapons<BR>
Commerce:  no restrictions to regulated monopolies<BR>
Communication:  no rules to approval required for non-verbal comm.<BR>
Congregation:  no limits to no gatherings except for gov't, business,<BR>
family.<BR>
Movement:  no rules to permission required outside your residence<BR>
Privacy:  absolute right to privacy to total monitoring by anyone ok<BR>
Process:  arbitrary, adversarial, coopertive and dictate determine guilt<BR>
<BR>
Its not a bad first stab at the subject (I'm guessing it wasn't<BR>
written by a lawyer seeing none I know to be lawyers in<BR>
the credits).  I only have minor nits with it.<BR>
<BR>
Congregation and Movement as detailed are close enough<BR>
to be merged, IMO.  It would be extreme unusual to have<BR>
total freedom of movement and no ability to congregate<BR>
and vice versa.<BR>
<BR>
Process should include accusatorial method (it has<BR>
arbitrary, adversarial, cooperative and dictate).  In fact,<BR>
I would tie Process to Government from the UWP<BR>
as the source of authority would be derived the same<BR>
way (you shouldn't see any determination of guilt by<BR>
arbitrary or dictated methods in a democracy).<BR>
Also, I think it _might_ be worth examining if Punishment<BR>
should be broken out of Process.<BR>
<BR>
Missing is Property rights.<BR>
<BR>
I think Privacy needs a rewrite.  An absolute right to<BR>
privacy means that the government couldn't invade<BR>
your right to gather evidence against you.  Which<BR>
essentially limits them to prosecuting only those crimes<BR>
they directly observe in public areas where a person<BR>
has voluntarily, and knowingly, waived that right.<BR>
<BR>
Bloo<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:34:07 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: FW: Goverment Overkill<BR>
<BR>
At 10:31 -0500 31/12/99, Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:<BR>
>Yikes!  Pencil leads break. Graphite pencil leads are conductors. Tiny<BR>
>little bits of conductor floating about are BAAAAAD!<BR>
<BR>
Those soft 'china' pencils may do better than 6H graphite ones.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:38:34 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Spacer Folklore<BR>
<BR>
At 14:17 -0500 31/12/99, "Bont" <felix@felixcafe.com> wrote:<BR>
>These were great!<BR>
<BR>
I agree! Nice work by Chris - my hat's off to him. Useful for colour <BR>
when running.<BR>
<BR>
>What we need is a "101 Folklore Tales"<BR>
<BR>
If someone wants to pull this together we (BITS) would happily PDF it <BR>
and host it like Rob's 102 Vehicles and 101 Starships for GT work.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:40:21 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Gunbunny notice<BR>
<BR>
At 14:17 -0500 31/12/99, Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
>The<BR>
>problem is that the companies are seeing the Tobacco nightmare, and are<BR>
>running scared...BTW; happy new year!<BR>
<BR>
BAESystems has had problems with the UK government because of whom <BR>
H&K has sold to. This may be influencing their decision to sell.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:46:51 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Megacorps<BR>
<BR>
At 14:17 -0500 31/12/99, "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net> wrote:<BR>
> > Lockheed-Martin, General Electric, United Defense, now those are megacorps.<BR>
> ><BR>
>United Defense? Perhaps you mean United Technologies. That's definitely a<BR>
>megacorp. So would General Motors and Ford. What about ExxonMobil (these<BR>
>corporate giants JUST merged), BP/Amoco?<BR>
><BR>
>Any input from the European and Asian sectors?<BR>
<BR>
Telecoms:<BR>
BT (especially once the AT&T link up goes through)<BR>
Marconi (ex GEC)<BR>
Vodafone-AirTouch<BR>
<BR>
Defense:<BR>
BAESystems (now second biggest defense company in the world)<BR>
Whatever DASA and Aerospatiale are now called.<BR>
<BR>
Pharmaceuticals:<BR>
Glaxo-Wellcome<BR>
<BR>
FMCGs:<BR>
Unilever<BR>
Proctor & Gamble<BR>
<BR>
Engineering:<BR>
Matsushita?<BR>
Rolls-Royce<BR>
FIAT<BR>
<BR>
Finance/Consulting<BR>
Anderson<BR>
<BR>
There is a starter for you...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:38:50 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: powder explosions was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1599<BR>
<BR>
At 0:20 -0500 2/1/00, Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net> wrote:<BR>
>	As I recall, just about any powered substance in Zero G and a spark<BR>
>ought to make a really good bang. There have been more than one deadly<BR>
>explosions in grain elevators for this reason, and I can imagine that<BR>
>the zero-g and accelerations ought to mix the dust and air even more<BR>
>thoroughly.<BR>
<BR>
Generally, the powder needs to be organic.<BR>
<BR>
Although there are exceptions.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:02:59 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
At 4:03 -0500 2/1/00,  "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
>GDW, DGP and the various licensees who have contributed to the<BR>
>Traveller Universe over the years are all gone now. The products are out of<BR>
>print, they're available only to collectors, they're available only <BR>
>to people who know what they're looking for.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=8><SMALL><SMALL><SMALL><BR>
Please sir, we're still here....<BR>
http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
7 101 Books, 2 Adventures, a Bibliography, MacOS software, free <BR>
archive materials all in print<BR>
All flavours of Traveller supported<BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></SMALL></SMALL><BR>
<BR>
Dom (BITS Webmaster)<BR>
<BR>
- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------<BR>
                  BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.<BR>
  http://www.bits.org.uk/              mailto:bits@bits.org.uk<BR>
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.<BR>
BITS and CORE are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:14:10 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 4:54 -0500 2/1/00, "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:<BR>
>    You may ask, if you want.  But, it mostly comes from the local GURPS<BR>
>players in the area, the PR machine of Steve Jackson, & how big a Dick Steve<BR>
>Jackson is to most gamers.<BR>
<BR>
I think that you're verging on personal attacks on list members <BR>
bearing in mind that several of the people who have wrote GT are on <BR>
the list.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sorry that you've locally got a bunch of fools who play GURPS and <BR>
ruin your enjoyment, but this isn't a reason to attack everything to <BR>
do the SJG and GURPS. I've seen players like this across all sorts of <BR>
games - it isn't the game company driving them that way.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 02:02:28 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
At 18:16 -0500 2/1/00, "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au> wrote:<BR>
>    That does me a lot of good, I've only got AutoCAD! : )<BR>
<BR>
Go with DXF - I may be able to take it and convert to PDF in <BR>
Ilustrator for you. Will have a look later on.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:46:19 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: More....<BR>
<BR>
At 16:18 -0500 2/1/00, "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:<BR>
>    I really do not care one way or the other if you write for SJG, but it<BR>
>is not Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>    Personally I really do not care what you think, or want.  I do not like<BR>
>SJ, SJG, GURPS, or alot of other shit he has created.  I do not think that<BR>
>GT is Traveller, but a bastard creation.  I have a right to think the way I<BR>
>want to think, if you do not like it, then maybe you should leave the list.<BR>
<BR>
In your previous post to this one, you said that only Jesse's art <BR>
would tempt you to buy GT. Am I right in thinking that on this basis <BR>
you haven't even looked at the GT books' content? Your loss if so...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 18:01:26 -0800<BR>
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com><BR>
Subject: Traveller Game in San Francisco<BR>
<BR>
The holidays are over, my schedule is stabilizing and thoughts are <BR>
returning to Traveller. . .<BR>
<BR>
In order to reduce wasted bandwidth on the TML, I am shifting my <BR>
discussions about an San Francisco Bay Area Traveller game to Doug's <BR>
"TravellerinSF" community on OneList.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.onelist.com/community/TravellerinSF<BR>
<BR>
Hopefully, if you live in the area and want to game, you'll subscribe.  If <BR>
you have some beef with OneList and refuse to join, email me in private <BR>
anyways.<BR>
<BR>
Hint hint hint:  Let's start a game. :)<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com<BR>
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com<BR>
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com<BR>
  IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+<BR>
_________________________________________________________ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 18:18:27 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
...<BR>
>Actually, some of us do support the idea of separate GT an CT/MT lists.<BR>
>Like myself.<BR>
<BR>
  And what makes you think we want the MT people with us, you revisionist? <BR>
<BR>
The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 18:20:20 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: jurisdiction issues in the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
>Subject: Re: jurisdiction issues in the Imperium<BR>
...<BR>
>Okay.  Does anything protect local law, and local citizens, from Imperial<BR>
>military procedures on their planet?<BR>
<BR>
  The inherent justice and impartiality of the Imperial system and its<BR>
administrators? That, or being a high-pop world with scads of firepower.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 18:22:08 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Harn <BR>
<BR>
>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
>I bet you would REALLY hate Harn then...:-) (I vaguely remember something <BR>
>about most PC's starting out as peasants...).<BR>
<BR>
  Lower class if the purely random method is used; IIRC there are back-<BR>
grounds worse than being a peasant. OTOH, it should teach the players to <BR>
bribe the ref in fairly short order...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 02:17:09 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Posting volume<BR>
<BR>
Crikey,<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion sure stirred up the list.<BR>
<BR>
01/01/2000 = 145 posts<BR>
<BR>
02/01/2000 = 324 posts (Is this a record...?)<BR>
<BR>
Some of us actually try to read all these...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond      <BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 02:21:04 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jason T. Barnabas <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 02 January 2000 06:16<BR>
Subject: Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
> As Kirsten and I were watching the London celebration (which BTW, was<BR>
> incredibly classy with having Big Ben as the focal point.) we were<BR>
> commenting with all the explosions and searchlights, Blitz survivors must<BR>
> be having a hard night.<BR>
<BR>
I have a question about that particular clock.  How many<BR>
faces does it have on which you can read the time?<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------<BR>
errr.... is this a trick question?<BR>
<BR>
If not then the answer is four, one on each side.<BR>
<BR>
Why do you ask?<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond      <BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 20:19:57 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Separate Lists<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/00 at 08:15 PM,  "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, some of us do support the idea of separate GT an CT/MT lists.<BR>
>Like myself.<BR>
<BR>
It's easy to set up a list, if you really want to.  Just go to<BR>
www.onelist.com and you can create a new list in five minutes or<BR>
less.  If you *really* want to.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:23:57 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
On a web site it's more likely to be a bad Perl hack. The Date() function<BR>
in perl will return the number of years since 1900; since Perl is a rather<BR>
loosely typed language lazy programmers just did "19".date(Y) #IIRC I'm<BR>
away from my perl reference right now. The proper way to do it is<BR>
1900+date(y)...<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Most amusing Y2K glitch I've heard about: France's national weather service,<BR>
> > on their website, had a satellite picture with the date "January 1, 19100".<BR>
> > You read that right: 19100. (Makes perfect sense: 99 + 1 = 100, after all.)<BR>
> > Only 17,100 years off. :)<BR>
> <BR>
> That bug bit a few programs here. It's due to programmers in C using a<BR>
> library function without bothering to read the docs. The function<BR>
> returns the year. the programmers *assumed* it returned the last 2<BR>
> digits of the year. It doesn't. It returns the year as an *offset* from<BR>
> 1900. <BR>
> <BR>
> So their code was something like this (I don't do C, so I'll use BASIC :-)<BR>
> <BR>
> 	print "19";zero-fill(year(time));<BR>
> <BR>
> When they *should* be something like this:<BR>
> <BR>
> 	print 1900+year(time);<BR>
> <BR>
> > ObTrav: What kind of problems (if any) did the Imperium have preparing for<BR>
> > the (Imperial) year 1000?<BR>
> <BR>
> Probably none. This sort of thing would be built into basic code<BR>
> libraries for *millennia* by then. And since they'd have to deal fairly<BR>
> often with dates in *other* systems (Solomani, Zhodani, Aslan, etc)<BR>
> they'd regularly be dealing with 4 digit years.<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 02:19:44 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 20:38 -0500 2/1/00, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:<BR>
>  GT as proto-T5 supplements - hey, me too! I figure that as the CT/MT/T4<BR>
>rules were all acceptable to me, then so should T5, and I know enough of<BR>
>GURPS to convert stuff.<BR>
><BR>
>  Hey, BITS better have a crack team of analysts ready to provide rules<BR>
>conversion support of their products for when T5 comes out!<BR>
<BR>
Err, look at the Task system in the Khiidkar Incident or SpaceDogs! <BR>
or on the website. You may notice that the T4.1/T5 tasks are already <BR>
there. assuming that Marc doesn't abandon all the good work he's done <BR>
so far.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1637<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1638<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
re: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
Re: Posting volume<BR>
Silly Season?<BR>
Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
<Sigh><BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1631<BR>
Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Traveller Game in San Francisco<BR>
Re: <Sigh><BR>
Re: Posting volume<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Query re: T5 rules<BR>
Re: Unfriendly Local Gaming Stores<BR>
OT: Metagaming (was Re: Multi-Genre games)<BR>
Popular Liberation Front of Classic Traveller<BR>
Re Players<BR>
why I support separation...<BR>
Re: Traveller Game in San Francisco (NOT!!)<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
Re: Spacer Folklore<BR>
Re: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
Re: [none]<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 02:22:22 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
<BR>
At 20:38 -0500 2/1/00, Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net> wrote:<BR>
>I just can't remember his name right now for the life of me...<BR>
<BR>
<highlander quote><BR>
'I know his name'<BR>
</highlander quote><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
And he suspended Clif at least twice before he was dropped.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:27:44 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Posting volume<BR>
<BR>
From:           	"Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Date sent:      	Mon, 3 Jan 2000 02:17:09 -0000<BR>
<BR>
> Crikey,<BR>
<BR>
> Legate Legion sure stirred up the list.<BR>
<BR>
Its a pity really. The thread in question actually had some potential, <BR>
I was sort of vaguely hoping that Marc might give us an update on <BR>
T5 or at least to see some intelligent discussion on its future; but <BR>
all we got was an irrelevant flamefest<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Andrew etc<BR>
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:23:58 +1100<BR>
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au><BR>
Subject: Silly Season?<BR>
<BR>
Most of the time this list has been amusing and informative, if not<BR>
necessarily on-topic (on the basis of the last 18 months I've been a<BR>
subscriber, and my archival reading).<BR>
<BR>
The signal to noise ratio has hit a new low since digest 1616 (the first<BR>
of 2000, list server time).<BR>
<BR>
Let's get back into some semblance of purpose, please ; 2000 promises :-<BR>
* G:Trav books :-<BR>
Starports, Ground Forces, Solomani Rim, Navy (largely complete or in<BR>
print) ;<BR>
Alien Races 3 (Droyne and Hiver?), AR 4 (minors) ; and<BR>
?Nobility, ?Vilani/Minor Human Races<BR>
<BR>
Lots to talk about here.<BR>
<BR>
* those lovely CT reprints Marc announced a little while ago.<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor<BR>
Medico, Gamer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:23:24 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
<BR>
> What brought this on?<BR>
<BR>
A couple of comments made in another thread. I was just curious about it,<BR>
because I've seen this line of thought come up on several lists. It usually<BR>
starts off "The problem with so-and-so system is that it encourages people<BR>
to play the same old character" (as it did this time). Or alternatively, "I<BR>
have this player in my group who always plays the same character -- what can<BR>
I do about this?" as if this is a big problem.<BR>
<BR>
The common response is something like "some people are just bad<BR>
roleplayers," as if bad roleplaying/acting = bad gaming sessions. I was<BR>
interested in seeing other enlightened individuals thoughts on the matter<BR>
(and this list is has some of the most enlightened members on it that I am<BR>
aware of).<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 21:28:22 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: <Sigh><BR>
<BR>
"Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
 Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626 Said:<BR>
 <BR>
<< Okay, is this where I can jump in a rip up everyone who ever had anything <BR>
to<BR>
 do with GDW?  >><BR>
<BR>
Sure, why not? Marc will be happy to hear whatever you have to say about him.<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 21:28:23 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1631<BR>
<BR>
Legate,<BR>
<BR>
<<     When you went to SJG instead of producing a better T4, it really hurt,<BR>
 to have one of my heros betray what he had created.  >><BR>
<BR>
Imperium games felt they could do without me (I asked -- they declined). <BR>
<BR>
After GDW went under, I spent 18 months on unemployment, learning that nobody <BR>
wants to hire an overweight white guy in his 40s (and also learning that <BR>
trying to earn a living as a free-lancer in the gaming business is a slow way <BR>
to starve). Steve Jackson offered me twice what I was making selling <BR>
computers/business electronics, which meant that I could actually afford to <BR>
pay _all_ of my creditors each month rather than just some of them and have <BR>
enough left over for a retirement plan more sophisticated than buying a <BR>
lottery ticket every week. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I don't object to your hating GURPS. I don't object to your hating GT. I <BR>
don't even object to you thinking whatever you think of me. I just wish you <BR>
would stop saying you want me on fire or drained of blood. Sorry, but I'm a <BR>
little funny that way . . .<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:26:16 +1100<BR>
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
Jory Earl wrote :-<BR>
> Just goes to show that even though medical<BR>
> technology 'seems' wondrous to us, our doctors are still not much better<BR>
> than witch doctors dancing around a fire shaking rattles.<BR>
<BR>
Considering how far we've progressed in the last century, the current<BR>
'state of play' in medicine is downright impressive. However, it is less<BR>
evidence-based IMHO than any other active field of endeavour, with the<BR>
possible exceptions of information technology and those social sciences<BR>
cursed with postmodernism.<BR>
<BR>
Robert Heinlein got it right when he wrote : "The Age of Science has not<BR>
yet begun."<BR>
<BR>
Jory, you sound like you have (had) SCIDS and a successful marrow or<BR>
stem cell transplant, on the basis of the information provided.<BR>
Considering that better than 85% of the world's population doesn't have<BR>
access to that level of care, and that you're still alive, you've been<BR>
doubly lucky.<BR>
<BR>
> My boss's wife has cancer too and it's of the malignant variety. <BR>
> Going in for chemo always scares her.<BR>
<BR>
N.B. The oncological definition of 'cure' is a disease free interval of<BR>
five years.<BR>
<BR>
The poor woman has metastatic Ca and presumably has had a surgical<BR>
debulking procedure or radiotherapy. Chemo may be frightening, but<BR>
realistically it's the only chance she has*, and she lives in the nation<BR>
with the best (and among the most aggressive) oncologists in the world.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav : 'Star Trek' level non-invasive medical tech is probably only<BR>
going to be realised in imaging and some therapeutic modalities (e.g.<BR>
neutron beam irradiation). I really don't think that catheters, cannulae<BR>
,needles and surgery are going to vanish (OK, if nanotechnology gets off<BR>
the ground then the last three might disappear).<BR>
<BR>
	Nevertheless, the next century promises some impressive advances in<BR>
therapeutics once we nut out what all that DNA does or doesn't do<BR>
(TTL 9 and 10).<BR>
	Some other research areas of interest include :-<BR>
	Chip based molecular biology labs ; terahertz, Hall effect, high<BR>
resolution CT, 3D ultrasound, X-ray holography and low-field strength MR<BR>
as imaging modalities ; high-speed DNA and protein sequencing ;<BR>
computational and combinatorial chemistry ; femtosecond laser work on<BR>
molecular interactions ; 'functional imaging'.<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor<BR>
Medico, Gamer<BR>
<BR>
* - the odds of any malignancy spontaneously disappearing are estimated<BR>
to be 1 in 200000.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 20:45:58 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Game in San Francisco<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/00 at 08:44 PM,  Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>The holidays are over, my schedule is stabilizing and thoughts are <BR>
>returning to Traveller. . .<BR>
<BR>
>In order to reduce wasted bandwidth on the TML, I am shifting my <BR>
>discussions about an San Francisco Bay Area Traveller game to Doug's <BR>
>"TravellerinSF" community on OneList.<BR>
<BR>
Give us, non-Bayers, an update occasionally, please?<BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
    Oy! With all this contention, I think I need an aspirin.<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 21:55:37 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: <Sigh><BR>
<BR>
Hmm... maybe we can get Marc into the fray.  He can flame all of the players<BR>
for being such dweebs and we can flame him back and then we can split the<BR>
list up four or five ways and lob grenade back and forth.  We can call it<BR>
"GURPS TML FlameFest"!!<BR>
<BR>
- -Crusty<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com><BR>
> "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net>><BR>
> << Okay, is this where I can jump in a rip up everyone who ever had<BR>
anything<BR>
> to do with GDW?  >><BR>
><BR>
> Sure, why not? Marc will be happy to hear whatever you have to say about<BR>
him.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 21:56:24 -0500<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Posting volume<BR>
<BR>
Naw! Back during the Big One of '98 I saw one day with over 450 come thru.<BR>
This is just a skermish, heck, we haven't even had to resort to the bunkers<BR>
yet! You whipper snappers just don't know what a flame war is!<BR>
<BR>
Mike (Really hoping it doesn't get as bad as some!)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Matthew Bond <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 9:17 PM<BR>
Subject: Posting volume<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Crikey,<BR>
><BR>
> Legate Legion sure stirred up the list.<BR>
><BR>
> 01/01/2000 = 145 posts<BR>
><BR>
> 02/01/2000 = 324 posts (Is this a record...?)<BR>
><BR>
> Some of us actually try to read all these...<BR>
><BR>
> Matt<BR>
><BR>
> Matthew Bond<BR>
> mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
> www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
> --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> "To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
> ...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
> --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 19:02:36 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
...<BR>
></FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=8><SMALL><SMALL><SMALL><BR>
>Please sir, we're still here....<BR>
...<BR>
<BR>
 "Oh, damn, not another hobbit infestation in the hold; check with the<BR>
chief purser to see if the contents can withstand vacuum..."<BR>
<BR>
  Hmm, G:T: AGTfOS?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 19:03:02 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
<BR>
>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
...<BR>
>>  Hey, BITS better have a crack team of analysts ready to provide rules<BR>
>>conversion support of their products for when T5 comes out!<BR>
><BR>
>Err, look at the Task system in the Khiidkar Incident or SpaceDogs! <BR>
>or on the website. You may notice that the T4.1/T5 tasks are already <BR>
>there. assuming that Marc doesn't abandon all the good work he's done so far.<BR>
<BR>
  FWIW, I assume that the +D-D mechanism is still planned for T5; do you<BR>
know if there's going to be any provision for providing a universal and<BR>
simple alternative to it, just so that it doesn't risk becoming the "half-<BR>
die for task rolls" of T5?<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 19:03:55 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Unfriendly Local Gaming Stores<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
>Subject: Re: Unfriendly Local Gaming Stores<BR>
><BR>
>>  Ohio. California. The _UK_.<BR>
<BR>
>Nah, we have it easy in the UK - we just buy from BITS. Nice and easy (and<BR>
cheap!).<BR>
<BR>
  That's what I mean - these are the places I have to get some of my gaming<BR>
stuff, in this case my BITS goodies :(<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 21:54:01 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: OT: Metagaming (was Re: Multi-Genre games)<BR>
<BR>
Michael Peters wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
In fact I think a SF suppliment was written to the rules<BR>
(something like Star Guard or Star Force, like I said I'd give a lot to have<BR>
the games back to reference right now). Guess what? If memory serves, a<BR>
writer, who was soon to go it on his own wrote those books, I think the guys<BR>
name was Steve unh, hum, Jakeson, Janson... no Jackson, yeah that's it!<BR>
Timing early to mid-eighties I believe.<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
I think the game is _StarLeader: Assault!_ (1982), if you're talking games <BR>
put out by Metagaming. A map of a space yacht, some rules for armor and <BR>
weapons, a couple scenarios that all involve boarding the yacht. A tactical<BR>
combat game in the same vein as GDW's _Snapshot_ or<BR>
_Azhanti High Lightning_, but not anything I'd call even a basic RPG.<BR>
They had RPG plans for it, but I don't think anything else came out before <BR>
Metagaming went under. _StarLeader_ didn't look like it was compatible<BR>
with _The Fantasy Trip_, but I only have vague memories of the latter<BR>
to compare my copy of the former to. <BR>
<BR>
I've heard that Metagaming planned superhero (_In the Name of Justice!_)<BR>
and old west (_High Noon_) supplements for their RPG<BR>
_The Fantasy Trip_, but I don't think either of these saw the light<BR>
of day before the company closed it's doors.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.brainiac.com/tft/metagameindex.html has a pretty complete<BR>
looking list of Metagaming stuff, with release dates and cover blurbs.<BR>
I grieved for my lost copy of _Monsters!, Monsters!_ while looking <BR>
over it.... <G><BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 03:00:56 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Popular Liberation Front of Classic Traveller<BR>
<BR>
At 21:25 -0500 2/1/00, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:<BR>
>  And what makes you think we want the MT people with us, you revisionist?<BR>
><BR>
>The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"<BR>
<BR>
Yeah! Join the Official PLFCT!<BR>
<BR>
Then there's the fundamentalist CT Front of Popular Liberation who <BR>
only use the Book 2 rules, and none of the Apocrypha (Books 4 and <BR>
above). <Splitters!><BR>
<BR>
And the Provisional PLFCT who only use first edition High Guard. <Traitors><BR>
<BR>
So Siblings, there aren't just the 6 later heresies...<BR>
<BR>
MT, TNE, T4, T4.1/T5, GT and Eris the Heretic's TU.<BR>
<BR>
Sibling Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:06:54 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Players<BR>
<BR>
>>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
>>Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
>...<BR>
>>What do Putzhead GURPS players have to do with SJG's being bad? That's like<BR>
>>saying that all of the idiot rednecks in their giant 4x4 pickups make Dodge<BR>
>>and Ford bad. SJG's and GURPS are NOT responsible for idiot munchkins. I say<BR>
>>this and I don't even play it. I just buy the GT stuff for reference until T5<BR>
>>comes out. I still think SJ is one of the good guys...BTW; did you guys get<BR>
<BR>
The same way that Rifts players reflect the Palladium system, so do the<BR>
GURPS players reflect GURPS. Not all are neuter-appearance postpubescant<BR>
whining rules-lawyers, byt the visible slice tend to be so. The preachy<BR>
minority even more so.<BR>
<BR>
Just like the aging crowd of CT'ers has a major reflection on CT. And the<BR>
new gereation spawned by TNE reflects on TNE.<BR>
<BR>
Unlike ford and dodge, who have such mainstream appeal that they can afford<BR>
to have the stereotypes still in view, the game industry is a niche market<BR>
already,  and the stereotypes that are visible are the ones who get the<BR>
press. While there really is no such thing as bad press in a niche market<BR>
(as such press draws some new purchasers who rebell against public<BR>
opinion), in the smaller niche markets, it can alienate a larger section of<BR>
the potential pool.<BR>
<BR>
A game design will appeal to a significant subset of gamers; getting that<BR>
subset to try it is a major problem. When confronted with the horsdes of<BR>
Pokemon or MTG players, most of whom are prepubescant, at least locally,<BR>
and almost all of whom are rules lawyers at heart, I hope they stay AWAY<BR>
from real RPG's... Both such games were so disruptive to good order in the<BR>
schools that the local school district had to ban them. Possession on<BR>
school grounds is forbidden, punishable with siezure, and for repeat<BR>
offenses, suspension. Obviously, this was not the intent of the game<BR>
designers, they merely targeted persons looking for easy, fun, and short<BR>
games with customizeable card-sets. GURPS appeals to weenies... so GURPS is<BR>
typically marketed at weenies. Palladium's games have moved to munchkins,<BR>
so PG takes the munchkinistic submissions, and releases them for the<BR>
munchkins. MT had clear appeal towards military oriented RP, so it pushed<BR>
that aspect... unfortunately, GDW didn't realize that MT players were a far<BR>
further diverse bunch.... TNE was built around "Dungeonless Dungeon<BR>
Crawls", in a sense, and drew a new cadre of players who enjoyed that<BR>
threat, and alienated many CT/MT fans.<BR>
<BR>
The players who are attracted to a game are a clear reflection of the game<BR>
itself. Maybe not always accurate reflections, but the most visible<BR>
relfection.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:51:07 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: why I support separation...<BR>
<BR>
>>Actually, some of us do support the idea of separate GT an CT/MT lists.<BR>
>>Like myself.<BR>
>>William F.<BR>
><BR>
>    Knowing that your a reasonable guy I'll ask you "why?" and know I'll get<BR>
>a reasonable answer.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I'll try to present a reasonable, rational, and at least considerate<BR>
reply... ;)<BR>
<BR>
>    I must admit that being a MegaTraveller fan/apologist/cultist I'm often<BR>
>lost when TNE topics come up but I can usually panel-beat them into<BR>
>something usefull for MTU. There's such a good cross section of ideas at TML<BR>
>it would be a shame to lose someones input. How about just writing the era<BR>
>your topic relates to in the subjetc line, such as:<BR>
><BR>
>    Re: Drop Tanks (PreTNE)<BR>
><BR>
Topic lines don't work. They have been tried multiple times on the TML over<BR>
the last (OMG! I've been on this list 5 years now!) 5 years. Subject<BR>
threading didn't work. Just look at how far some people have gone on the<BR>
various threads put up last week... very few are reasonably close, but some<BR>
still have the original subject line.<BR>
<BR>
Any time you get as divergent a group as the TML, yes there will be<BR>
disagreements as to how much is canonical, how much is on topic, etc. But,<BR>
for CT/MT types (like myself, who use MT with some CT materials), the SNR<BR>
gets pretty low. For CT Purists, the SNR is even lower. For GT, the SNR is<BR>
moderate...<BR>
<BR>
I was on the TML and XBoat lists those 5 years ago. I read both though my<BR>
Univeristy shell account, in VMS mail. The XBoat list, for the most part,<BR>
wasabout CT/MT background issues, and very little of the gearheadedness<BR>
that the TML of then had. The Then TML was mostly about TNE,<BR>
gearheadedness, and slamming the imperium. As the feud died down, GDW<BR>
Folded, and MWM announced  T4, people who were primarily TML'ers started<BR>
cross-posting lots of stuff to XBoat, and then several surveys were done...<BR>
The TML wanted X_Boat reintegrated, but the XBoat list was split on the<BR>
issue. So the list master reintegrated the two lists. Restarting several<BR>
CT/MT vs TNE flame wars, at that time.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I don't like the GT Rules, the GT setting changes, etc. I<BR>
despise the TNE setting... I lose all willing suspension of disbelief at<BR>
Virus. Even using MT, I seldom run in the Rebellion setting. I see so many<BR>
small and invasive changes in GT, that I feel it really is as different a<BR>
setting as Rebellion was, but when you add the mechanical differences,<BR>
neither T4 nor GT are any closer to CT than TNE was. Much as MWM claims<BR>
otherwise, T4 really is a cross between CT and TNE mechanically (See also<BR>
FF&S2).<BR>
<BR>
GT is setting it's own canon, with a strong sense of being Lorn Wiseman's<BR>
Traveller. (No offense meant to LKW, mind you.)<BR>
<BR>
Hopefully, the rerelease of CT will revive CT. I hope it sells enough to<BR>
create a new view of the CT setting.<BR>
<BR>
I have a strong MT rules preference, but I will gladly point out that MT is<BR>
a hybrid of CT and Striker/AHL.<BR>
<BR>
This brings me to why I support the idea of a separate CT/MT list:<BR>
Mechanically, you can put MT ships into HG combats; the rating system is<BR>
compatable, as is combat. MT personal combat is a logical outgrowth of<BR>
Striker/AHL, which was a clear option for CT groups. But I can't use the<BR>
mechanics of TNE in a CT or MT game conviniently. I can't use GT mechanical<BR>
stuff either, for the same reasons. The T4 stuff was a turn-off for many,<BR>
for a variety of reasons, and with the rise of GT, seems to have passed<BR>
nearly to oblivion, where, IMHO, it belongs. I'd rather not wade through<BR>
the T4, GT, nor TNE bupkis looking for CT/MT stuff.<BR>
<BR>
I feel that GT really should be migrated to an SJG run list... it is<BR>
rapidly grwoing more distant.<BR>
<BR>
In any case, the call is not mine to make... I remain on the TML for the<BR>
few tidbits I like, even if I do get bitch-mail when I post a MT or a<BR>
Striker design.<BR>
<BR>
>Or a similiar edifice, that way you could try and keep a thread basically On<BR>
>Topic.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:11:54 -0500<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Game in San Francisco (NOT!!)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 9:01 PM<BR>
Subject: Traveller Game in San Francisco<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The holidays are over, my schedule is stabilizing and thoughts are<BR>
> returning to Traveller. . .<BR>
><BR>
> In order to reduce wasted bandwidth on the TML, I am shifting my<BR>
> discussions about an San Francisco Bay Area Traveller game to Doug's<BR>
> "TravellerinSF" community on OneList.<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.onelist.com/community/TravellerinSF<BR>
><BR>
> Hopefully, if you live in the area and want to game, you'll subscribe.  If<BR>
> you have some beef with OneList and refuse to join, email me in private<BR>
> anyways.<BR>
><BR>
> Hint hint hint:  Let's start a game. :)<BR>
><BR>
Ya know, this pi$$%s me off even more than the flame war going on right<BR>
now!! I mean really, why should THAT side of the continent have all the<BR>
fun!? Heck, it's going to fall off into the sea soon anyway!<BR>
<BR>
The point of all this? Is there any one in the Pennsy- New Jersey area<BR>
willing to discuss a monthly game/meeting? Or, if not monthly, how about a<BR>
SINGLE meeting!? Com'on ARE WE GOING TO LET THOSE LEFT COASTERS SHOW US UP!?<BR>
I've seen pictures of their get together. Let's find our own Denny's (or<BR>
suitable substitute ) and SEND some pictures to them! Are we Traveller Fans<BR>
or are we Kkree!?<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:10:09 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Please sir, we're still here....<BR>
> http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
> 7 101 Books, 2 Adventures, a Bibliography, MacOS software, free<BR>
> archive materials all in print<BR>
> All flavours of Traveller supported<BR>
> </FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></SMALL></SMALL><BR>
<BR>
My apologies. I didn't mean to overlook the wonderful BITS products (if they<BR>
were available at my FLGS I'd have them all by now). And, yes, it would<BR>
appear that you go out of your way to support Traveller of all flavors.<BR>
<BR>
Even so, how were your sales before G:T, though, and how are they now?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 19:18:10 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Subject: Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
...<BR>
>>   Heck, D&D had an SF module implied in the Blackmoor content! :>  But in<BR>
...<BR>
>I never meant to imply that FGU did, merely that if Palladium counted <BR>
>as multi genre, so did Aftermath, etc. BTW the (A)D&D SF module is more <BR>
>than implied - it exists and is quite nasty.<BR>
<BR>
  I got it recently - hopefully I can get rid of it as easily :> - but that<BR>
was a later `80's issue; earlier Blackmoor items (incl. the original) exist.<BR>
Perhaps the best way is to refer to those and things like "Expedition to the<BR>
Barrier Peaks" as examples of cross-genre work, rather than a multi-genre<BR>
system?<BR>
<BR>
>>   Is Palladium really multi-genre or just lots of different gamebooks<BR>
...<BR>
>IMO it's not really, even including Rifts. From what I've seen Rifts <BR>
>isn't multi genre, it's just that you get to apply munchkin sized <BR>
>weapons to assorted enemies over many different worlds. That does not a <BR>
>multi genre game make - merely munchkin splatter.<BR>
<BR>
  That's the impression I got - until last week it had been years since I opened<BR>
a book of it, but the players I knew who played it didn't inspire much<BR>
confidence.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:14:59 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Spacer Folklore<BR>
<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I agree! Nice work by Chris - my hat's off to him. Useful for colour<BR>
> when running.<BR>
<BR>
<bow><BR>
<BR>
Thank you Dom!<BR>
<BR>
> If someone wants to pull this together we (BITS) would happily PDF<BR>
>it  and host it like Rob's 102 Vehicles and 101 Starships for GT<BR>
>work.<BR>
<BR>
Well, due to the response I've received, I'll be doing more. I don't know<BR>
how soon I'll reach 101, though.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:20:31 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/00 at 09:13 PM,  shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) said:<BR>
<BR>
>>>  Hey, BITS better have a crack team of analysts ready to provide rules<BR>
>>>conversion support of their products for when T5 comes out!<BR>
<BR>
>>Err, look at the Task system in the Khiidkar Incident or SpaceDogs! <BR>
>>or on the website. You may notice that the T4.1/T5 tasks are already <BR>
>>there. assuming that Marc doesn't abandon all the good work he's done so far.<BR>
<BR>
>  FWIW, I assume that the +D-D mechanism is still planned for T5; do you<BR>
>know if there's going to be any provision for providing a universal and<BR>
>simple alternative to it, just so that it doesn't risk becoming the<BR>
>"half-die for task rolls" of T5?<BR>
<BR>
Err, did I miss something?  I thought I had all Marc's drops, but<BR>
*what* is the +d-d mechanism?  Isn't he going with a Task system<BR>
similar to T4, ie 2d/2.5d/3d/4d/5d?  Or is he doing something<BR>
normed around 0, ie d6-d6?  If it's the latter isn't that similar to<BR>
Feng Shui and/or FUDGE?<BR>
<BR>
I'd *love* for T5 to go that route.<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 14:23:08 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>>Actually, some of us do support the idea of separate GT an CT/MT lists.<BR>
>>Like myself.<BR>
><BR>
>  And what makes you think we want the MT people with us, you revisionist?<BR>
><BR>
>The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its<BR>
Product"<BR>
<BR>
    Is that "High Guard" or "Old Guard" your refering to?<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1638<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1639</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1639<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Popular Liberation Front of Classic Traveller<BR>
Re: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
[none]<BR>
Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
Re 2000<BR>
Re: disgusting habits<BR>
Re: Traveller Game in San Francisco<BR>
Re Old Games<BR>
Re: Hey, Mike, East Coast Traveller: HELL YEAH!<BR>
Re: Metagaming (was Re: Multi-Genre games)<BR>
Re: why I support separation...<BR>
Re: Hey, Mike, East Coast Traveller: HELL YEAH!<BR>
Family<BR>
Re: SJG bashing<BR>
Re: Harn <BR>
re: Old Games<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Why I support the combined list...<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: jurisdiction issues in the Imperium<BR>
Re: Unfriendly Local Gaming Stores<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:24:09 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Popular Liberation Front of Classic Traveller<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/00 at 09:22 PM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>So Siblings, there aren't just the 6 later heresies...<BR>
<BR>
>MT, TNE, T4, T4.1/T5, GT and Eris the Heretic's TU.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, it's good to be me! <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
    sometimes I wonder what my bosses would think if they ever did<BR>
    search on my name<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:24:07 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
From: Jussi Kenkkil <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Gamma World has mechanics differing from AD&D and closer to<BR>
> Marvel Superheroes RPG, also from TSR.<BR>
<BR>
It depends on what version you're talking about, and even then, with the<BR>
exception of a colored table for action resolution, not really. Even though<BR>
there are certain similar concepts in many of the versions (the 3rd edition,<BR>
even with the ACT table, still used AD&D-style attributes), only one<BR>
version, the 4th edition, is close enough to AD&D to be considered to be<BR>
using the same mechanics.<BR>
<BR>
All other versions deviate heavily, although they may use certain familiar<BR>
concepts.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:26:18 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>Missing is Property rights.<BR>
><BR>
>I think Privacy needs a rewrite.  An absolute right to<BR>
>privacy means that the government couldn't invade<BR>
>your right to gather evidence against you.  Which<BR>
>essentially limits them to prosecuting only those crimes<BR>
>they directly observe in public areas where a person<BR>
>has voluntarily, and knowingly, waived that right.<BR>
><BR>
>Bloo<BR>
<BR>
Privacy rights do get rather extensive in some areas...<BR>
<BR>
For example, A friend of mine, a Police Officer who was on duty, and I were<BR>
talking on my front stoop one day. He could see my neighbor lighting up a<BR>
pot-pipe. He could see him loading the bowl out of a baggie, then lighting<BR>
up and toking away. Due to the state privacy laws, since no one was<BR>
endangered, he could'nt do a thing about it, even though the curtains were<BR>
open, since his windows and doors were shut. The moment the guy opened his<BR>
window, and the officer smelled the pot, he went in, siezed the<BR>
paraphenalia, the drugs, and issued a citation. State law on privacy says<BR>
you must have a warrant or reasonable threat of life to spy through a<BR>
closed window. But, if the window is open, you just waived the right to<BR>
privacy...<BR>
<BR>
I'd say on an invaseiveness scale, the State of Alaska probably would be<BR>
around a 3 and the US in general about a 4-5, with Brittain (based upon 2nd<BR>
hand info, mind you) about a 5-7, and the Soviet Russians were probably<BR>
about a 9. _Lacey and his Friends_ would protray somewhere around a C-D.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:30:42 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 19:18, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>   I got it recently - hopefully I can get rid of it as easily :> - but<BR>
>   that<BR>
> was a later `80's issue; earlier Blackmoor items (incl. the original)<BR>
> exist. Perhaps the best way is to refer to those and things like<BR>
> "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" as examples of cross-genre work, rather<BR>
> than a multi-genre system?<BR>
<BR>
I wish you luck :) I remember being really unimpressed with devices <BR>
designed with no purpose except to waste characters, etc, etc. Cross-<BR>
genre sounds fine, as those things are single adventures, not whole <BR>
settings.<BR>
 <BR>
> >>   Is Palladium really multi-genre or just lots of different gamebooks<BR>
> ...<BR>
> >IMO it's not really, even including Rifts. From what I've seen Rifts<BR>
> >isn't multi genre, it's just that you get to apply munchkin sized weapons<BR>
> >to assorted enemies over many different worlds. That does not a multi<BR>
> >genre game make - merely munchkin splatter.<BR>
> <BR>
>   That's the impression I got - until last week it had been years since I<BR>
>   opened<BR>
> a book of it, but the players I knew who played it didn't inspire much<BR>
> confidence.<BR>
<BR>
The last time I looked at any of it was a couple of years ago when a <BR>
friend picked Rifts up cheap to put on his shelf. I've only got the <BR>
Fantasy rules, and that's only because I can't swap them away for <BR>
anything I want.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:31:51 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re 2000<BR>
<BR>
>Let's get back into some semblance of purpose, please ; 2000 promises :-<BR>
>* G:Trav books :-<BR>
>Starports, Ground Forces, Solomani Rim, Navy (largely complete or in<BR>
>print) ;<BR>
>Alien Races 3 (Droyne and Hiver?), AR 4 (minors) ; and<BR>
>?Nobility, ?Vilani/Minor Human Races<BR>
><BR>
>Lots to talk about here.<BR>
<BR>
That's Flame Bait if ever I saw it.... Everything mentioned is GT! ;)<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:41:37 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: disgusting habits<BR>
<BR>
SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 19:24 -0500 28/12/99, Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
> > > The worst kid food fetish that I have every had to interrupt was<BR>
> > > a child who found his deodorant stick tasty. Right in class, he was<BR>
> > > taking bites out of that nasty thing<BR>
> > ><BR>
> >Isn't it poisonous?<BR>
> <BR>
> Probably not (remember that it goes into intimate contact with the<BR>
> skin and that could be broken). Now, it may not taste nice and may<BR>
> make the kid sick, but not poisonous in the cyanide sense.<BR>
> <BR>
> They're mainly alcohol base (sometimes water but that needs<BR>
> preservative) combined with waxes and powders like talc. Plus<BR>
> whatever the special ingredient (essence of bat) and active is.<BR>
<BR>
Alludium phosdex?  No, that's the shaving cream atom....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 19:28:12 -0800<BR>
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Game in San Francisco<BR>
<BR>
At 10:22 PM 1/2/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >In order to reduce wasted bandwidth on the TML, I am shifting my<BR>
> >discussions about an San Francisco Bay Area Traveller game to Doug's<BR>
> >"TravellerinSF" community on OneList.<BR>
><BR>
>Give us, non-Bayers, an update occasionally, please?<BR>
<BR>
Heck, I'll post a site with digital photographs and mpegs if the game <BR>
actually materializes.  On second thought, I think players would flee if I <BR>
started clicking pictures.  ;)<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com<BR>
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com<BR>
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com<BR>
  IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+<BR>
_________________________________________________________ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:39:27 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Old Games<BR>
<BR>
>I think the game is _StarLeader: Assault!_ (1982), if you're talking games<BR>
>put out by Metagaming. A map of a space yacht, some rules for armor and<BR>
>weapons, a couple scenarios that all involve boarding the yacht. A tactical<BR>
>combat game in the same vein as GDW's _Snapshot_ or<BR>
>_Azhanti High Lightning_, but not anything I'd call even a basic RPG.<BR>
>They had RPG plans for it, but I don't think anything else came out before<BR>
>Metagaming went under. _StarLeader_ didn't look like it was compatible<BR>
>with _The Fantasy Trip_, but I only have vague memories of the latter<BR>
>to compare my copy of the former to.<BR>
<BR>
I'd be happy to do a comparison, since I have an extensive collection of<BR>
TFT stuff... <Wink*Wink*><BR>
<BR>
>I've heard that Metagaming planned superhero (_In the Name of Justice!_)<BR>
>and old west (_High Noon_) supplements for their RPG<BR>
>_The Fantasy Trip_, but I don't think either of these saw the light<BR>
>of day before the company closed it's doors.<BR>
<BR>
There was a set of expansion rules for doing Supers in TFT released. As a<BR>
Magazine insert.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>http://www.brainiac.com/tft/metagameindex.html has a pretty complete<BR>
>looking list of Metagaming stuff, with release dates and cover blurbs.<BR>
>I grieved for my lost copy of _Monsters!, Monsters!_ while looking<BR>
>over it.... <G><BR>
><BR>
_Monsters! Monsters!_, lessee here, the copy I've borrowed says 1976,<BR>
1979, and is from Flying Buffalo, not Metagaming....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:37:44 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Hey, Mike, East Coast Traveller: HELL YEAH!<BR>
<BR>
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com><BR>
<BR>
> The point of all this? Is there any one in the Pennsy- New Jersey<BR>
> area willing to discuss a monthly game/meeting? Or, if not monthly,<BR>
> how about a SINGLE meeting!? Com'on ARE WE GOING TO LET<BR>
>THOSE LEFT COASTERS SHOW US UP!?<BR>
> I've seen pictures of their get together. Let's find our own Denny's<BR>
> (or suitable substitute ) and SEND some pictures to them! Are we<BR>
> Traveller Fans or are we Kkree!?<BR>
<BR>
We talked about this before, and it kind of fizzled out. Let's do it! I<BR>
don't drive, though, so someplace within the confines of Philadelphia would<BR>
be best, unless I can get a ride somewhere. Let's set a date for a meeting<BR>
and *have it*!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:43:12 -0500<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Metagaming (was Re: Multi-Genre games)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
To: 'TML' <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 9:54 PM<BR>
Subject: OT: Metagaming (was Re: Multi-Genre games)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I think the game is _StarLeader: Assault!_ (1982), if you're talking games<BR>
> put out by Metagaming. A map of a space yacht, some rules for armor and<BR>
> weapons, a couple scenarios that all involve boarding the yacht. A<BR>
tactical<BR>
> combat game in the same vein as GDW's _Snapshot_ or<BR>
> _Azhanti High Lightning_, but not anything I'd call even a basic RPG.<BR>
> They had RPG plans for it, but I don't think anything else came out before<BR>
> Metagaming went under. _StarLeader_ didn't look like it was compatible<BR>
> with _The Fantasy Trip_, but I only have vague memories of the latter<BR>
> to compare my copy of the former to.<BR>
><BR>
Walt,<BR>
First THANKS for the url, it allowed me to refreash my memory of some truely<BR>
enjoyable games.<BR>
<BR>
It also jogged my memory in other ways. I think I had confused or combined<BR>
the games Star Leader: Assault and the module Security Station. S.S. was a<BR>
programed adventure for TFT set among a high tech dungeon, with rules for<BR>
high tech equipment. The setting for TFT promoted SF play, set in an<BR>
alternate universe where tech leeching "slider" types had once existed and<BR>
almost anything could be found. During the course of that campaign I had<BR>
Wizards vs Laser Tanks. Air craft against dragons. A simple set of rules by<BR>
todays standard but a whole lot of fun. I still say that a lot of GURPS is<BR>
based on that rule set (understandable, since Evil Stevie [said with<BR>
repect!] had a big hand in both). I do miss their simplicity though, wrapped<BR>
into three books very similair in size, shape and print quality to a small<BR>
module today.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 14:55:36 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: why I support separation...<BR>
<BR>
<SNIP><BR>
>This brings me to why I support the idea of a separate CT/MT list:<BR>
>Mechanically, you can put MT ships into HG combats; the rating system is<BR>
>compatable, as is combat. MT personal combat is a logical outgrowth of<BR>
>Striker/AHL, which was a clear option for CT groups. But I can't use the<BR>
>mechanics of TNE in a CT or MT game conviniently. I can't use GT mechanical<BR>
>stuff either, for the same reasons. The T4 stuff was a turn-off for many,<BR>
>for a variety of reasons, and with the rise of GT, seems to have passed<BR>
>nearly to oblivion, where, IMHO, it belongs. I'd rather not wade through<BR>
>the T4, GT, nor TNE bupkis looking for CT/MT stuff.<BR>
<SNIP><BR>
>William F. Hostman<BR>
<BR>
    I'm starting to warm to this idea. It would have a small enough base<BR>
that existing TMLers could just receive digests of it and it would not be<BR>
intrusive and the old fogeys like me would get a higher content from the<BR>
list. I've only been on the TML for a few weeks and I do enjoy it, it seems<BR>
to be full of personalities! There is little for my campaign though,<BR>
something that is very different from the other lists I'm on (Space 1889,<BR>
Twilight 2000 etc)<BR>
    So how about it? I'm already running a PbEM or I'd volunteer to moderate<BR>
it myself.<BR>
    Jim.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:53:38 -0500<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hey, Mike, East Coast Traveller: HELL YEAH!<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 10:37 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Hey, Mike, East Coast Traveller: HELL YEAH!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> We talked about this before, and it kind of fizzled out. Let's do it! I<BR>
> don't drive, though, so someplace within the confines of Philadelphia<BR>
would<BR>
> be best, unless I can get a ride somewhere. Let's set a date for a meeting<BR>
> and *have it*!<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Chris,<BR>
<BR>
I'm up for it! Pick a place in the city (I'm a country boy, all I know is<BR>
the Art Museum and the tourist sites around the Liberty Bell). Then say<BR>
Saturday the 22nd, or let me know when's good for you, and we'll get<BR>
together, at least!<BR>
<BR>
Give me a shout off list with the details, unless others are interested.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:31:24 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Family<BR>
<BR>
>On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Kiri, I just want you to know you don't have to belong to any special<BR>
community in order to be 'family'.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jory, Family (note the capital F) is how queer/les/bi/gay/trans people refer<BR>
to themselves, especially in mixed company.  It doesn't mean anything about<BR>
anyone else not being able to be family with anyone else, it's just a code<BR>
phrase that people have retained because it's still useful.  =)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:37:29 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
>This is the same problem I have found with my fellow sci-fi fans.  Instead<BR>
of saying, "I personally am not into that so I wont watch/play it" and leave<BR>
it at that, people have to attack, nit-pick, bring down.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Anime fans do that too.  For years anime fans would whine and complain that<BR>
there were very few women into anime.  This was a serious problem because<BR>
unlike RPG's, many women who are not into anime feel threatened by it.  In<BR>
the mid 90's there was an explosion of good shows in Japan that were aimed<BR>
at females-- Sailor Moon (which is much better in the original Japanese)<BR>
being the biggest example, but also Magic Knight Rayearth, Wedding Peach,<BR>
Marmalade Boy, Akazukin Chacha, Utena...  All these shows had dolls rather<BR>
than action figures, lots of cute toys and marketing tie-ins.  The mostly<BR>
male anime fans complained bitterly even though these shows were drawing in<BR>
the female interest that everyone had wanted to see.  I had been into anime<BR>
for a long time and more than once faced insulting put-downs for liking<BR>
these shows, including the all time stupidest one "Why do you like all that<BR>
GIRL stuff?"<BR>
<BR>
(I just looked down at my rather impressive chest and the long skirt I was<BR>
wearing, looked back up at him, made the "you really are as dense as a chunk<BR>
of neutronium aren't you?" face, and shook my head.)<BR>
<BR>
Today anime fandom is around 40-50% female and has drawn in a lot of older<BR>
women and young girls from the Barbie collecting hobby who became interested<BR>
in anime through collecting anime fashion dolls.  But oh, they still bitch<BR>
and moan, even when they are asking for our phone numbers!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:55:06 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Harn <BR>
<BR>
>>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
>>Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
><BR>
>>I bet you would REALLY hate Harn then...:-) (I vaguely remember something<BR>
about most PC's starting out as peasants...).<BR>
>><BR>
I believe he was using this as some of his source material.  I didn't care<BR>
for the setting.  I don't generally like fantasy games much, but at the time<BR>
I was stuck playing with people who did.<BR>
<BR>
>  Lower class if the purely random method is used; IIRC there are<BR>
backgrounds worse than being a peasant. OTOH, it should teach the players to<BR>
bribe the ref in fairly short order...<BR>
><BR>
LOL!<BR>
<BR>
Yes, very true.<BR>
<BR>
My favorite settings were always Renaissance or Victorian, if I couldn't be<BR>
in the Far Future.<BR>
<BR>
And I LOVED Call of Cthulhu.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:55:17 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Old Games<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>><BR>
>I grieved for my lost copy of _Monsters!, Monsters!_ while looking<BR>
>over it.... <G><BR>
><BR>
_Monsters! Monsters!_, lessee here, the copy I've borrowed says 1976,<BR>
1979, and is from Flying Buffalo, not Metagaming....<BR>
>>>>>>><BR>
The URL I mentioned as a Metagaming ludography listed _Monsters!<BR>
Monsters!_ as a Metagaming Concepts game. That may be in error,<BR>
or the game may have been published twice. I'll certainly believe that<BR>
the first publisher was Flying Buffalo, what with the _Tunnels<BR>
& Trolls_ origins. Regardless, the game was a lot of fun - I liked it<BR>
better than I've liked more recent monsters-as-PC's games like<BR>
_Nightlife_.<BR>
<BR>
I ran that Woodsedge Inn introductory scenario four times, for four<BR>
different groups, and each and every group managed to get one of their <BR>
monsters who either couldn't swim or was otherwise allergic to dunking <BR>
thrown down the well...<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:08:42 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Doug carelessly typed:<BR>
> ><BR>
> You stated that those who write GURPS Traveller should be burned.  I am<BR>
> writing GURPS Traveller.  Perhaps, in my case, a light singing will do?<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> A light *singing*??? perhaps some light opera or a Broadway medley?<BR>
<BR>
I vote for Gilbert and Sullivan.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm. "HMS Pinafore" in Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:01:47 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
I'm somewhat troubled by the rumblings surrounding a split of the TML.  The<BR>
Traveller community is relatively small as fan bases go.  This forum has<BR>
about a hundred voices at any one time.  That number is large enough to get<BR>
a great mix of ideas and opinions, yet not unruly.  Anything smaller tends<BR>
to limit the gene / idea pool.  You also get an Us vs. Them thing going with<BR>
two competing lists, which is counter-productive.  Certainly these flame<BR>
wars are not terribly helpful, but I feel they are a necessary evil that you<BR>
accept when you bring so many great thinkers together.  The benefits of<BR>
having this combined forum are legion (pardon the pun).  For one, we have<BR>
the power to sway the publishers.  That power is damaged by personal attacks<BR>
on people like Loren, but you have to concede that he follows this list<BR>
precisely because it is a good gauge of the state of the game.  We are also<BR>
a good pool of talent from which Loren and Marc and others can draw.  In the<BR>
past year or so I have seen four or more messages from Loren seeking someone<BR>
to make a submission of some sort on short notice.  I won't belabor the<BR>
point.  I'll close by saying that the smaller "subcommittee" forums that<BR>
come and go serve a purpose, too.  I don't mind seeing several going at a<BR>
time.  They are also a sign of a healthy Traveller community :-)  But the<BR>
combined clout that this list currently enjoys is not something we should<BR>
consider throwing away.<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:59:17 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
Black Ice wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
I vote for Gilbert and Sullivan.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm. "HMS Pinafore" in Traveller?<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
Why not...I've already seen an RPG magazine present a Traveller<BR>
rendition of "The Pirates of Penzance".  :-)<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:13:10 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
Michael Peters wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Jory Earl <j-man@iname.com><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 5:20 PM<BR>
> Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
> <BR>
> > Umm..I'd like to report a keyboard kill here...Thanks a lot Mike..<BR>
> > ___________________________________________________________<BR>
> >  J-Man<BR>
> >  ICQ# 2843475<BR>
> >  New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
> >  Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
> >  Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
> > ___________________________________________________________<BR>
> <BR>
> Thank you J-Man, the apprptiate kill sticker is now in place on my monitor!<BR>
> Hey has anyone checked, is this the first official "kill" of the New Year?<BR>
<BR>
Nope, there were several kills on Saturday, 01 Jan 2000, before 5:00 AM<BR>
CST.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 23:16:13 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/2000 23:08, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Doug carelessly typed:<BR>
>>> <BR>
>> You stated that those who write GURPS Traveller should be burned.  I am<BR>
>> writing GURPS Traveller.  Perhaps, in my case, a light singing will do?<BR>
>>> <BR>
>> <BR>
>> A light *singing*??? perhaps some light opera or a Broadway medley?<BR>
> <BR>
> I vote for Gilbert and Sullivan.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hmmm. "HMS Pinafore" in Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
"I am the very model of a modern Major General...."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:24:28 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: jurisdiction issues in the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I agree completely that Imperial military and Scout personnel on<BR>
> > duty are exempt from any enforcement of the member state's<BR>
> > criminal laws, but not because that avoids litigation against<BR>
> > any government.  Rather, it's because the Imperial military and<BR>
> > Scouts need protection from local law in order to do their work.<BR>
> <BR>
> Okay.  Does anything protect local law, and local citizens, from Imperial<BR>
> military procedures on their planet?<BR>
<BR>
Yes.  The Sword World Confederation Navy and the Zhodani Navy both act<BR>
to protect a number of worlds from Imperial military procedures on those<BR>
planets, with varying degrees of success.<BR>
<BR>
Around 1120 in the MT timeline, the Solomani Confederation will also act<BR>
to protect Terrans from Imperial military procedures, with somewhat more<BR>
success than the Confederation had in 1002.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 20:55:23 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Unfriendly Local Gaming Stores<BR>
<BR>
>>>  Luckily, Warehouse 23 now does mail-order of SJ Games (and BITS, and <BR>
>>>Atlas, etc., I presume) stuff through an associated company from Calgary,<BR>
>>>so Canadian gamers don't have to pay 40% shipping plus GST, PST & a $5<BR>
>>>customs processing charge; it's cheap (to free at $80 US) shipping plus<BR>
>>>7% GST (well, Albertans get to add their PST, but that's zero % <snarl>).<BR>
>><BR>
>>Cool. So I won't have to bug my friends in Seattle anymore. :)<BR>
><BR>
>  Ohio. California. The _UK_. And you have to get your loot forwarded<BR>
>from Seattle - poor diddums :)<BR>
<BR>
Is it *my* fault that you don't have any friends in Seattle? :)<BR>
(Heck, you could *drive* to Seattle in, what, three hours?)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1639<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1640<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
Re: T5<BR>
Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Popular Liberation Front of Classic Traveller<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
This whole Palladium/SJG idiocy<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
Re: [none]<BR>
RE: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
Re: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
Re: T5<BR>
RE: Traveller Game in San Francisco (NOT!!)<BR>
RE: Traveller Game in San Francisco<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:07:15 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
>> TSR had Boot Hill and AD&D on the same mechanics by 81, and IIRC, gamma<BR>
world.<BR>
>> <BR>
>Gamma World has mechanics differing from AD&D and closer to Marvel<BR>
Superheroes >RPG, also from TSR.<BR>
<BR>
That was a later edition of Gamma World -- and there have been several. The<BR>
earliest version used a system remarkably similar to that of (A)D&D, to the<BR>
point that the AD&D Dungeon Master book had rules for how to translate<BR>
chracters from one game to the other.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:04:43 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: T5<BR>
<BR>
>BINGO!!!! Marc MUST (in my opinion...) do this, or T5 will fail to sell to <BR>
>anybody outside the TML...I also think he and Steve (or Loren in a pinch) <BR>
>should have a sit-down and figure out a way for these two games to<BR>
COMPLEMENT <BR>
>each other, and not undercut each other's sales... The ideal would for the <BR>
>gamer to buy the supplements and rules he/she likes. As an example; I'm<BR>
not a <BR>
>GURPS player. I do have ALL the GT stuff for reference, but don't use the <BR>
>GURPS rulebook. I would like to buy T5 and be able to use my GT stuff with <BR>
>the T5 rules. A GURPS player would obviously not buy the T5 rules, but would <BR>
>buy the supplements if they are GURPS compatible. Thus he/she can play GURPS <BR>
>Trav in a T5 Milieu 0 or 200 setting for example. I hope that Marc and Loren <BR>
>and Steve consider this approach...<BR>
<BR>
Does it really matter *what* system we are using? I've been gaming for over<BR>
20 years, and have used more rule systems than I can remember. I have also<BR>
run several different campaigns over the years, various genres, various<BR>
rule systems -- mostly fantasy in the early days, supers and outer space SF<BR>
in recent ones. I have taken adventures written for Champions and used them<BR>
in a V&V campaign. I have taken adventures written for V&V and used them<BR>
in a Marvel Super Heroes campaign. I have taken adventures for Marvel Super<BR>
Heroes and used them in a Champions campaign. I could take an adventure for<BR>
any version of Traveller -- or for any other space game -- and run it in<BR>
my current GURPS Traveller campaign if it was appropriate to the campaign<BR>
setup (the PCs are covert intelligence operatives in the year 1115). If<BR>
the adventure (or any other kind of reference material) is useful, it doesn't<BR>
matter what system it was written for -- I can adapt. Any reasonably<BR>
competent game master with experience in different systems should be able<BR>
to do the same. So even if I never run anything in T5, if T5 is good, I'll<BR>
buy it -- and if there is useful info in there, I'll use it. Heck, the PC's<BR>
spaceship in my campaign is lifted more or less straight out of the old<BR>
Space Opera RPG...<BR>
<BR>
I could run my campaign in Hero and it would be not substantially different<BR>
than the one I run now, for that matter. We're concentrating so much on<BR>
what kind of trees we have, we're missing the forest...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:11:10 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
<BR>
>>Don't you just love it when someone threatens to sue when they have<BR>
>>absolutely no legal basis for it<BR>
><BR>
>    An insightful list member pointed out that they can't Win the court case<BR>
>but the can sue you 'till your broke defending yourself. Even if you win.<BR>
>    Jim<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps. But in the example I provided above from personal experience, the<BR>
"defendant" had the publisher decided to sue would have been the Province<BR>
of Alberta Department of the Environment. And I doubt it would have gotten<BR>
very far in court: provincial governments are exempt from paying the 7%<BR>
federal sales tax (GST). Period. <BR>
<BR>
(Besides, in Canada, in a private lawsuit, the loser often has to pay the <BR>
legal costs for BOTH SIDES. Cuts down on frivolous lawsuits.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:30:16 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Jory Earl wrote :-<BR>
> > Just goes to show that even though medical<BR>
> > technology 'seems' wondrous to us, our doctors are still not much better<BR>
> > than witch doctors dancing around a fire shaking rattles.<BR>
> <BR>
> Considering how far we've progressed in the last century, the current<BR>
> 'state of play' in medicine is downright impressive. However, it is less<BR>
> evidence-based IMHO than any other active field of endeavour, with the<BR>
> possible exceptions of information technology and those social sciences<BR>
> cursed with postmodernism.<BR>
> <BR>
> Robert Heinlein got it right when he wrote : "The Age of Science has not<BR>
> yet begun."<BR>
> <BR>
> Jory, you sound like you have (had) SCIDS and a successful marrow or<BR>
> stem cell transplant, on the basis of the information provided.<BR>
> Considering that better than 85% of the world's population doesn't have<BR>
> access to that level of care, and that you're still alive, you've been<BR>
> doubly lucky.<BR>
> <BR>
> > My boss's wife has cancer too and it's of the malignant variety.<BR>
> > Going in for chemo always scares her.<BR>
> <BR>
> N.B. The oncological definition of 'cure' is a disease free interval of<BR>
> five years.<BR>
> <BR>
> The poor woman has metastatic Ca and presumably has had a surgical<BR>
> debulking procedure or radiotherapy. Chemo may be frightening, but<BR>
> realistically it's the only chance she has*, and she lives in the nation<BR>
> with the best (and among the most aggressive) oncologists in the world.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ob Trav : 'Star Trek' level non-invasive medical tech is probably only<BR>
> going to be realised in imaging and some therapeutic modalities (e.g.<BR>
> neutron beam irradiation). I really don't think that catheters, cannulae<BR>
> ,needles and surgery are going to vanish (OK, if nanotechnology gets off<BR>
> the ground then the last three might disappear).<BR>
<BR>
I wonder whether very-low-power meson beams, aimed with the help of<BR>
sensitive densitometers, could be used for some forms of surgery....<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> * - the odds of any malignancy spontaneously disappearing are estimated<BR>
> to be 1 in 200000.<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, "the chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one -<BR>
but still they come!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:33:32 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Popular Liberation Front of Classic Traveller<BR>
<BR>
SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 21:25 -0500 2/1/00, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:<BR>
> >  And what makes you think we want the MT people with us, you revisionist?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"<BR>
> <BR>
> Yeah! Join the Official PLFCT!<BR>
> <BR>
> Then there's the fundamentalist CT Front of Popular Liberation who<BR>
> only use the Book 2 rules, and none of the Apocrypha (Books 4 and<BR>
> above). <Splitters!><BR>
> <BR>
> And the Provisional PLFCT who only use first edition High Guard. <Traitors><BR>
<BR>
Not to mention the People's Front of Judea, the Judean People's<BR>
Front.... ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:29:39 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
Date sent:      	Sun, 02 Jan 2000 23:16:13 -0500<BR>
From:           	"Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
<BR>
> >> A light *singing*??? perhaps some light opera or a Broadway medley?<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I vote for Gilbert and Sullivan.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Hmmm. "HMS Pinafore" in Traveller?<BR>
> <BR>
> "I am the very model of a modern Major General...."<BR>
<BR>
Uhmm, might I point you to Traveller, the Silly Era (Doug's own site)<BR>
<BR>
<http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/mikado.html><BR>
<BR>
I think you might just find something interesting there<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Andrew etc<BR>
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 20:30:38 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Ian is still the normal "Voice of Ditzie" (tm), so I defer to him ;)<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Kenji<BR>
Schwarz<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 5:33 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Stuart Ferris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I think its time that we put this topic to bed for another year.<BR>
<BR>
AWWWWWWWW!!!!  But it's only the 2nd!  It's sooooo eaaaaarrrrllyyyyy!  I<BR>
don' wanna put it to bed yet!  Pleeeeeeeezzeeee?<BR>
<BR>
(Waiting for Ditzie to join in...)<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:36:32 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/00 at 10:17 PM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Doug carelessly typed:<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> You stated that those who write GURPS Traveller should be burned.  I am<BR>
>> writing GURPS Traveller.  Perhaps, in my case, a light singing will do?<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> <BR>
>> A light *singing*??? perhaps some light opera or a Broadway medley?<BR>
<BR>
>I vote for Gilbert and Sullivan.<BR>
<BR>
>Hmmm. "HMS Pinafore" in Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
No, no, "PIRATES of PENZANCE, or a Slave to Duty" would be better<BR>
for Doug, for...<BR>
<BR>
 Doug is the very model of a modern Major-General,<BR>
 He has information vegetable, animal, and mineral,<BR>
 He knows the names of the Emperors Imperial, <BR>
    and can list the wars in order historical<BR>
 From Nth Interstellar to Fifth Frontier, in order categorical;<BR>
 He's very well acquainted, too, with matters mathematical,<BR>
 Can understand designs, both High Guard and FFS-iable,<BR>
 ...<BR>
<BR>
Yes, Doug is our very model of a modern Major-General!<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 20:39:01 -0800<BR>
From: Ross Coburn <rosscoburn@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: This whole Palladium/SJG idiocy<BR>
<BR>
Note; while the above title only partly reflects my true feelings on the<BR>
matter, I'm willing to bet it got you reading this missive, or deleting it<BR>
unread, thus serving its purpose admirably.  If it also gets half of you<BR>
warming up the flamethrowers and the other half donning asbestos, well, I've<BR>
never been accused of too much subtlety on this here list.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Since everyone and their cousin has weighed in on this issue, I figured I'd<BR>
better drop my cr .02 while the dropping's good:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
For starters, I will state that I am no fan of GURPS.  While I've been<BR>
gaming for eighteen years now, and sampled many, many systems and settings,<BR>
GURPS has never done it for me.<BR>
<BR>
This does not make it a bad or inferior game in and of itself; it just makes<BR>
it a game whose 'feel' turns me off.  Nothing to go to war over, sorry.<BR>
<BR>
That said, I have heard from a number of industry types that SJG is pretty<BR>
well respected within the community, that they make a solid effort to<BR>
produce good product and support it accordingly.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
They are apparently pretty good at seeing their freelancers paid promptly,<BR>
as one of my former players can attest, and seem open to new, fresh minds,<BR>
as their submissions policy (as pursued by another of my now-lost group)<BR>
demonstrates.<BR>
<BR>
Since I've gotten one of the comp copies of all the GURPS: Traveller stuff<BR>
from said player, I can say with confidence that, in my opinion it is an<BR>
interesting and valid take on the Traveller milieu, with some excellent<BR>
stuff already released and more apparently in the pipe (in fact, a volume of<BR>
work that is quite impressive when compared to another recent, unlamented<BR>
company's efforts).<BR>
<BR>
But to me it still doesn't make me want to play GURPS, because to me<BR>
Traveller is, well, Traveller, meaning anything up to MT and we'll see what<BR>
T5 might hold.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
That said, the other system being held up to the light, Palladium, is my<BR>
second least-favourite (Rolemaster being my least).  When younger I tried a<BR>
number of variations of the system and came to this conclusion:<BR>
<BR>
Palladium is CRAP.  Power-gaming, weakly-rendered, ill thought-out drivel.<BR>
<BR>
Again, my opinion.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Now I've never met KS, and in fact wouldn't recognise him if I ran him over<BR>
with a bus, and so have no opinion at all of him personally.  But if he is<BR>
intimately involved with every bit of product his company produces, I have<BR>
no respect for him as a writer/designer.<BR>
<BR>
I've never met SJ either, and similarly wouldn't recognise him unless he<BR>
looked anything like Gary Jackson in 'Knights of the Dinner Table' and was<BR>
wearing a name tag to boot, so I have no opinion about him either.<BR>
<BR>
For that matter, I've never met Gary Gygax, though I have read a number of<BR>
his editorials and so have at least some opinion of him based on his own<BR>
words.<BR>
<BR>
I have met any number of the White Wolf people, either online or in person,<BR>
and generally thought very highly of the ones I have corresponded with.<BR>
<BR>
I went to high school with one of the main DP9 people (now departed),<BR>
Stephane Brochu.  Great guy.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
But all of the above means absolutely NOTHING when I am appraising one of<BR>
the aforementioned individuals' games, because I am a reasoning human being<BR>
and can seperate the individual from the body of work.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps, Legate Legion, you might try doing the same.  You seem to spend a<BR>
lot of time and energy spewing vitriol, man, and it really isn't getting you<BR>
the response you want, unless said response is leading what appears to be a<BR>
majority (of posting members) of this list to think you're some kind of<BR>
idiot at least, right up to dangerously unbalanced.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
You don't like GURPS.  Fine.  You dislike SJ.  Equally fine (I'm sure he's<BR>
losing a lot of sleep over it).  You worship at the altar of Palladium.<BR>
Righto!  Go for it!  Enjoy.  But do it on a Palladium list, or if you're<BR>
planning on using that regrettable system for your Traveller game (and<BR>
therefore making it a relevant, on-topic subject) please post accordingly:<BR>
<BR>
How are/did you do it?  How did it work?  What did you have to rework,<BR>
either in Traveller terms or within the Palladium system?<BR>
<BR>
If you just want to blow off, let me know and I'll killfile you accordingly.<BR>
No need to have you forcibly removed from any lists, the weight of<BR>
indifference will eventually take care of that when everyone gets tired of<BR>
this little flamewar (and believe me; by TML standards, this is a LITTLE<BR>
flamewar).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Take care all,<BR>
<BR>
Ross Coburn<BR>
rosscoburn@earthlink.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 20:35:41 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
Would you STOP that!?  I've already got one evil (just kidding Ditzie!!!!)<BR>
cartoon character lurking around in my head, I don't need another!  =D<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jory Earl<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 5:57 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
These Penguins are packing HEAT.  <evil grin><BR>
<BR>
Every penguin's favorite : a Tommy gun.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kenji Schwarz" <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 8:39 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Damn it, I'm *trying* to get the penguins in here.  Compared to my current<BR>
> dormmates, they're probably better housebroken, just for starters.<BR>
> *Screw* the family of humanity!<BR>
><BR>
> Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 20:48:14 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
<BR>
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
>Subject: Re: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
...<BR>
>>  FWIW, I assume that the +D-D mechanism is still planned for T5; do you<BR>
>>know if there's going to be any provision for providing a universal and<BR>
>>simple alternative to it, just so that it doesn't risk becoming the<BR>
>>"half-die for task rolls" of T5?<BR>
><BR>
>Err, did I miss something?  I thought I had all Marc's drops, but<BR>
>*what* is the +d-d mechanism?  Isn't he going with a Task system<BR>
<BR>
  All I can find easily on my drive is Mr. Millers post of 26 May 1998<BR>
about jump timing ("Coordinated Jumps, From T4.1"), in which the +D-D<BR>
approach to generating deviations is used. I don't have a problem with<BR>
it as such, except that it might be annoying to some, being slower than<BR>
2d6 charts and generating (-5 to +5) eleven outcomes with (AFAIK) the <BR>
same probability of outcomes.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 20:48:31 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
>Subject: Re: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>>The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"<BR>
><BR>
>    Is that "High Guard" or "Old Guard" your refering to?<BR>
<BR>
  <ahem>  There's only one valid edition of HG, Citizen.  :><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 20:45:48 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
<BR>
OoooOOOOOoooo, another Highlander fan!  (the original movie that is!!!)<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of SD Mooney<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 6:22 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: re: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
At 20:38 -0500 2/1/00, Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net> wrote:<BR>
>I just can't remember his name right now for the life of me...<BR>
<BR>
<highlander quote><BR>
'I know his name'<BR>
</highlander quote><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
And he suspended Clif at least twice before he was dropped.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:00:07 -0800<BR>
From: Brian Jenkins <bjenk@sprintmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
<BR>
>On 01/01/00 at 11:25 PM,  "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
>>> Well, it seems that most of the world survived intact. Just one question<BR>
>>> though; what on earth are we going to do with all these penguins?<BR>
><BR>
>>I've been told they taste like chicken...<BR>
><BR>
>Hell, *everything* tastes like chicken. I bet Droyne taste like chicken!<BR>
><BR>
>Eris<BR>
><BR>
Actually Droyne tastes like Rattlesnake.   (So I've heard)<BR>
Brian Jenkins<BR>
Bjenk@sprinmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:56:02 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/00 at 10:49 PM,  shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) said:<BR>
<BR>
>  All I can find easily on my drive is Mr. Millers post of 26 May 1998<BR>
>about jump timing ("Coordinated Jumps, From T4.1"), in which the +D-D<BR>
>approach to generating deviations is used. I don't have a problem with it<BR>
>as such, except that it might be annoying to some, being slower than 2d6<BR>
>charts and generating (-5 to +5) eleven outcomes with (AFAIK) the  same<BR>
>probability of outcomes.<BR>
<BR>
+D-D would have the same distribution as 2d6-7 if I understand what<BR>
it means, ie roll a black die and a white die, subtracting the black<BR>
from the white.  And to me, at least, it makes perfect sense to vary<BR>
things around 0.<BR>
<BR>
Using this as the basis of a Task System would give results very<BR>
like CT, just normed at 0 rather than 7.  Unless something has<BR>
changed, though, I don't think Marc has that in mind.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:57:28 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
<BR>
On 01/02/00 at 10:56 PM,  Brian Jenkins <bjenk@sprintmail.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>>I've been told they taste like chicken...<BR>
>><BR>
>>Hell, *everything* tastes like chicken. I bet Droyne taste like chicken!<BR>
>><BR>
>>Eris<BR>
>><BR>
>Actually Droyne tastes like Rattlesnake.   (So I've heard)<BR>
<BR>
but rattlesnake tastes like....ah hell! <wink><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:01:22 -0500<BR>
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: T5<BR>
<BR>
At 09:04 PM 01/02/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
><SNIP>...Does it really matter *what* system we are using? ...<BR>
<BR>
Hear, hear!  My experience is similar - numerous rule sets played over the <BR>
years, tied to a single mythos...  Traveller is the Imperium in all its <BR>
ages and incarnations, NOT simply a set of game mechanics...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bill Rutherford<BR>
worj@home.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 20:55:55 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Game in San Francisco (NOT!!)<BR>
<BR>
Hee hee hee!!  Jealously doesn't suit you Mike ;)<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Michael<BR>
Peters<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 7:12 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Game in San Francisco (NOT!!)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 9:01 PM<BR>
Subject: Traveller Game in San Francisco<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The holidays are over, my schedule is stabilizing and thoughts are<BR>
> returning to Traveller. . .<BR>
><BR>
> In order to reduce wasted bandwidth on the TML, I am shifting my<BR>
> discussions about an San Francisco Bay Area Traveller game to Doug's<BR>
> "TravellerinSF" community on OneList.<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.onelist.com/community/TravellerinSF<BR>
><BR>
> Hopefully, if you live in the area and want to game, you'll subscribe.  If<BR>
> you have some beef with OneList and refuse to join, email me in private<BR>
> anyways.<BR>
><BR>
> Hint hint hint:  Let's start a game. :)<BR>
><BR>
Ya know, this pi$$%s me off even more than the flame war going on right<BR>
now!! I mean really, why should THAT side of the continent have all the<BR>
fun!? Heck, it's going to fall off into the sea soon anyway!<BR>
<BR>
The point of all this? Is there any one in the Pennsy- New Jersey area<BR>
willing to discuss a monthly game/meeting? Or, if not monthly, how about a<BR>
SINGLE meeting!? Com'on ARE WE GOING TO LET THOSE LEFT COASTERS SHOW US UP!?<BR>
I've seen pictures of their get together. Let's find our own Denny's (or<BR>
suitable substitute ) and SEND some pictures to them! Are we Traveller Fans<BR>
or are we Kkree!?<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:01:02 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Game in San Francisco<BR>
<BR>
No, we'll just show up in armor or full costume, so's not to be recognized<BR>
[sly wink]<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Keith<BR>
Johnson<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 7:28 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Game in San Francisco<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
At 10:22 PM 1/2/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >In order to reduce wasted bandwidth on the TML, I am shifting my<BR>
> >discussions about an San Francisco Bay Area Traveller game to Doug's<BR>
> >"TravellerinSF" community on OneList.<BR>
><BR>
>Give us, non-Bayers, an update occasionally, please?<BR>
<BR>
Heck, I'll post a site with digital photographs and mpegs if the game<BR>
actually materializes.  On second thought, I think players would flee if I<BR>
started clicking pictures.  ;)<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com<BR>
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com<BR>
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com<BR>
  IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1640<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1641</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	1/2/00 9:53:49 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
Sender:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
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</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1641<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
RE: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
RE: SJG bashing<BR>
Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
RE: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
RE: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: More....<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
Re: why I support separation...<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:14:55 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
It's not my fault!  They forced me to make that last post.  There are<BR>
several penguins in my room all holding tommy guns.  Well, except for the<BR>
larger one smoking a cigar.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 11:35 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Would you STOP that!?  I've already got one evil (just kidding Ditzie!!!!)<BR>
> cartoon character lurking around in my head, I don't need another!  =D<BR>
><BR>
> Jesse<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:10:15 -0800<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:31:24 -0800, "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
wrote: <BR>
<BR>
>Jory, Family (note the capital F) is how queer/les/bi/gay/trans people refer<BR>
>to themselves, especially in mixed company.  It doesn't mean anything about<BR>
>anyone else not being able to be family with anyone else, it's just a code<BR>
>phrase that people have retained because it's still useful.  =)<BR>
<BR>
I've also frequently heard Family used in the context of those descended of<BR>
Oberon, the blood of Amber.  Both definitions, IMO, intersect in the<BR>
aptly-named person of Bleys. ;)  (One of the persistent off-color jokes in<BR>
my playgroup is that Bleys' sexual orientation is "Yes.")<BR>
<BR>
Then there's the more mainstream version of "the Family"... <BR>
oh dear God, you've just given me the image of a bunch of queens in Armani<BR>
and high-pitched Sicilian voices.  I think I need to go lie down now.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In her next post, Kiri also wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Anime fans do that too.  For years anime fans would whine and complain that<BR>
>there were very few women into anime.  <BR>
<BR>
(snip)<BR>
<BR>
>  I had been into anime<BR>
>for a long time and more than once faced insulting put-downs for liking<BR>
>these shows, including the all time stupidest one "Why do you like all that<BR>
>GIRL stuff?"<BR>
<BR>
Ah, but you see... it wasn't just that they wanted you to like anime, they<BR>
wanted to you to like *the same stuff that they liked* and for *the same<BR>
reasons*.  God forbid they should actually make the effort to date outside<BR>
their hobbies.  :)<BR>
<BR>
>(I just looked down at my rather impressive chest and the long skirt I was<BR>
>wearing, looked back up at him, made the "you really are as dense as a chunk<BR>
>of neutronium aren't you?" face, and shook my head.)<BR>
<BR>
The best response, I think.  Well done.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair   "The Jigglypuff's trilling seems to have a <BR>
kellys@efn.org    tranquilizing effect on the human nervous system.<BR>
                  Fortunately, I am... immune..."<BR>
                            -- Mr. Spock, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:06:09 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
I hear a Traveller, the Silly Era filk in there!!!!<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Black ICE<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 8:09 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Doug carelessly typed:<BR>
> ><BR>
> You stated that those who write GURPS Traveller should be burned.  I am<BR>
> writing GURPS Traveller.  Perhaps, in my case, a light singing will do?<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> A light *singing*??? perhaps some light opera or a Broadway medley?<BR>
<BR>
I vote for Gilbert and Sullivan.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm. "HMS Pinafore" in Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:06:08 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
Hey Kiri, you going to be at the next BayCon for Doug's "Strephon Silver<BR>
Jubilee" party?<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia<BR>
Morgan<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 7:37 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>This is the same problem I have found with my fellow sci-fi fans.  Instead<BR>
of saying, "I personally am not into that so I wont watch/play it" and leave<BR>
it at that, people have to attack, nit-pick, bring down.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Anime fans do that too.  For years anime fans would whine and complain that<BR>
there were very few women into anime.  This was a serious problem because<BR>
unlike RPG's, many women who are not into anime feel threatened by it.  In<BR>
the mid 90's there was an explosion of good shows in Japan that were aimed<BR>
at females-- Sailor Moon (which is much better in the original Japanese)<BR>
being the biggest example, but also Magic Knight Rayearth, Wedding Peach,<BR>
Marmalade Boy, Akazukin Chacha, Utena...  All these shows had dolls rather<BR>
than action figures, lots of cute toys and marketing tie-ins.  The mostly<BR>
male anime fans complained bitterly even though these shows were drawing in<BR>
the female interest that everyone had wanted to see.  I had been into anime<BR>
for a long time and more than once faced insulting put-downs for liking<BR>
these shows, including the all time stupidest one "Why do you like all that<BR>
GIRL stuff?"<BR>
<BR>
(I just looked down at my rather impressive chest and the long skirt I was<BR>
wearing, looked back up at him, made the "you really are as dense as a chunk<BR>
of neutronium aren't you?" face, and shook my head.)<BR>
<BR>
Today anime fandom is around 40-50% female and has drawn in a lot of older<BR>
women and young girls from the Barbie collecting hobby who became interested<BR>
in anime through collecting anime fashion dolls.  But oh, they still bitch<BR>
and moan, even when they are asking for our phone numbers!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:13:55 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
    I've been playing this game for too many years and NOW, the year 2000,<BR>
someone points out that the Empress Marava is the same size as the Subbie.<BR>
Like, they're two pages away from each other and I never noticed! I've been<BR>
sitting here, shaking my head and counting grid squares. I still can't<BR>
believe it.<BR>
    So who came up with the proper stats for the new, improved, 400dt Far<BR>
Trader?<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:22:21 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
I have no idea what SCIDS is, and I didn't have any marrow<BR>
transplant/therapy.  I was born with hypogobaglamianemia (have no idea how<BR>
to spell it).  I would have had a brother one year older but he didn't<BR>
survive it.  He was barely home from the hospital when he sneezed.  2 hours<BR>
later he was dead and cold.  When my mom had me she screamed for blood tests<BR>
till they sedated her.  Sure enough, I was born with it too.  My body did<BR>
not have an immune system nor any means of making one.  Literally any<BR>
infection, virus, etc, could and would kill me.  The doctor came up with the<BR>
gamma-globulin treatment but even then said I wouldn't live to see the age<BR>
of 5.  He did however say that if I did, I would grow out of this and my own<BR>
immune system would finally kick in.  So, I beat the odds.  I am also told I<BR>
am the very first person to ever survive this.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au><BR>
To: "TML" <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 9:26 PM<BR>
Subject: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new<BR>
year)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Jory Earl wrote :-<BR>
> > Just goes to show that even though medical<BR>
> > technology 'seems' wondrous to us, our doctors are still not much better<BR>
> > than witch doctors dancing around a fire shaking rattles.<BR>
><BR>
> Considering how far we've progressed in the last century, the current<BR>
> 'state of play' in medicine is downright impressive. However, it is less<BR>
> evidence-based IMHO than any other active field of endeavour, with the<BR>
> possible exceptions of information technology and those social sciences<BR>
> cursed with postmodernism.<BR>
><BR>
> Robert Heinlein got it right when he wrote : "The Age of Science has not<BR>
> yet begun."<BR>
><BR>
> Jory, you sound like you have (had) SCIDS and a successful marrow or<BR>
> stem cell transplant, on the basis of the information provided.<BR>
> Considering that better than 85% of the world's population doesn't have<BR>
> access to that level of care, and that you're still alive, you've been<BR>
> doubly lucky.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:15:04 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
>It's not my fault!  They forced me to make that last post.  There are<BR>
>several penguins in my room all holding tommy guns.  Well, except for the<BR>
>larger one smoking a cigar.<BR>
<BR>
    He's called "Dulinor", he's an Emperor Penguin.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:20:22 -0500<BR>
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
At 09:06 PM 01/02/2000 -0800, Jesse wrote:<BR>
>I hear a Traveller, the Silly Era filk in there!!!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Filk?  I do not understand the term...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bill Rutherford<BR>
worj@home.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:16:16 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
Having spent ~18 hours in a car recently with Doug driving up to Oregon, I<BR>
can categorically say:<BR>
<BR>
ROFLMAOM!!!!!!!!!<BR>
Keyboard kill!!  [in spirit if not physcically, as I've learned my lesson]<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
No, no, "PIRATES of PENZANCE, or a Slave to Duty" would be better<BR>
for Doug, for...<BR>
<BR>
 Doug is the very model of a modern Major-General,<BR>
 He has information vegetable, animal, and mineral,<BR>
 He knows the names of the Emperors Imperial,<BR>
    and can list the wars in order historical<BR>
 From Nth Interstellar to Fifth Frontier, in order categorical;<BR>
 He's very well acquainted, too, with matters mathematical,<BR>
 Can understand designs, both High Guard and FFS-iable,<BR>
 ...<BR>
<BR>
Yes, Doug is our very model of a modern Major-General!<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- --<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:30:27 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
I know.  My point was they shouldn't need a special community because each<BR>
and every person should be special enough just on their own merits as a<BR>
human being.  I've known Kiri for a while (on another list) and have always<BR>
liked her.  She's listened to my whinings several times and always was<BR>
supportive.  How else would one define family?  :)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 12:10 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:31:24 -0800, "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >Jory, Family (note the capital F) is how queer/les/bi/gay/trans people<BR>
refer<BR>
> >to themselves, especially in mixed company.  It doesn't mean anything<BR>
about<BR>
> >anyone else not being able to be family with anyone else, it's just a<BR>
code<BR>
> >phrase that people have retained because it's still useful.  =)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:26:07 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: More....<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: More....<BR>
...<BR>
>    Personally I really do not care what you think, or want.  I do not like<BR>
>SJ, SJG, GURPS, or alot of other shit he has created.  I do not think that<BR>
>GT is Traveller, but a bastard creation.  I have a right to think the way I<BR>
>want to think, if you do not like it, then maybe you should leave the list.<BR>
<BR>
  Truly it must be wonderful to be such a man as to be rude, thoughtless,<BR>
and inconsiderate, and too proud to apologize. Did I mention thoughtless?<BR>
<BR>
>    At least I have offended you, personally, I really do not care, as if<BR>
>this is the state of Traveller, I suggest we split the TML.  One list of<BR>
>CT/MT/T4 players, one list for TNE players, & one list for GT players.<BR>
<BR>
  Or maybe one for civilized participants and another for your sort?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:33:52 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
Ack!  After that last one I just begged them to shoot!  :)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 12:15 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >It's not my fault!  They forced me to make that last post.  There are<BR>
> >several penguins in my room all holding tommy guns.  Well, except for the<BR>
> >larger one smoking a cigar.<BR>
><BR>
>     He's called "Dulinor", he's an Emperor Penguin.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:21:23 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
>Splork!<  Dammit, there goes another (symbolic) one...<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jim & Peta<BR>
Lawrie<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 9:15 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>It's not my fault!  They forced me to make that last post.  There are<BR>
>several penguins in my room all holding tommy guns.  Well, except for the<BR>
>larger one smoking a cigar.<BR>
<BR>
    He's called "Dulinor", he's an Emperor Penguin.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:21:19 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
Have you, by chance, seen "Billy Madison"?<BR>
<BR>
"I see you, Penguin!!"<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
=)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jory Earl<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 9:15 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
It's not my fault!  They forced me to make that last post.  There are<BR>
several penguins in my room all holding tommy guns.  Well, except for the<BR>
larger one smoking a cigar.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 11:35 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Would you STOP that!?  I've already got one evil (just kidding Ditzie!!!!)<BR>
> cartoon character lurking around in my head, I don't need another!  =D<BR>
><BR>
> Jesse<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:36:37 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
No, but I did go see Galaxy Quest tonight.  Hilarious movie!<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 12:21 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Have you, by chance, seen "Billy Madison"?<BR>
> <BR>
> "I see you, Penguin!!"<BR>
> <BR>
> Jesse<BR>
> =)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:35:20 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
The reality is that the online Traveller community is already split into<BR>
different lists.  Off the top of my head, there's the TML, the TNE-RCES<BR>
list, the Traveller Culture list, the gearhead/Trav-Tech list, a couple<BR>
different ISBA ship design lists, the HIWG list, and the HIWG writers'<BR>
list.  Plus, now, the B.A.T. (out of screaming HECK) list.  This seems<BR>
like a great thing to me, and I wouldn't mind seeing more lists<BR>
proliferate, if they're narrowly defined and let the TML stay the general<BR>
mixing bowl.  I'd personally be glad to have G:T rules and techy stuff go<BR>
elsewhere, I have to say.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Swordy (Colin Michael) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm somewhat troubled by the rumblings surrounding a split of the TML.  The<BR>
> Traveller community is relatively small as fan bases go.  This forum has<BR>
> about a hundred voices at any one time.  That number is large enough to get<BR>
> a great mix of ideas and opinions, yet not unruly.  Anything smaller tends<BR>
> to limit the gene / idea pool.  You also get an Us vs. Them thing going with<BR>
> two competing lists, which is counter-productive.  Certainly these flame<BR>
> wars are not terribly helpful, but I feel they are a necessary evil that you<BR>
> accept when you bring so many great thinkers together.  The benefits of<BR>
> having this combined forum are legion (pardon the pun).  For one, we have<BR>
> the power to sway the publishers.  That power is damaged by personal attacks<BR>
> on people like Loren, but you have to concede that he follows this list<BR>
> precisely because it is a good gauge of the state of the game.  We are also<BR>
> a good pool of talent from which Loren and Marc and others can draw.  In the<BR>
> past year or so I have seen four or more messages from Loren seeking someone<BR>
> to make a submission of some sort on short notice.  I won't belabor the<BR>
> point.  I'll close by saying that the smaller "subcommittee" forums that<BR>
> come and go serve a purpose, too.  I don't mind seeing several going at a<BR>
> time.  They are also a sign of a healthy Traveller community :-)  But the<BR>
> combined clout that this list currently enjoys is not something we should<BR>
> consider throwing away.<BR>
> <BR>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
> Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
> www.downport.com<BR>
> The Traveller Domain<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:47:08 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: why I support separation...<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
>Subject: Re: why I support separation...<BR>
...<BR>
>    I'm starting to warm to this idea. It would have a small enough base<BR>
>that existing TMLers could just receive digests of it and it would not be<BR>
>intrusive and the old fogeys like me would get a higher content from the<BR>
>list. I've only been on the TML for a few weeks and I do enjoy it, it seems<BR>
>to be full of personalities! There is little for my campaign though,<BR>
>something that is very different from the other lists I'm on (Space 1889,<BR>
>Twilight 2000 etc)<BR>
<BR>
  I've been on a number of the hived-off Trav lists of the last year, and<BR>
only Trav-Culture (was Trav-Languages in a previous epoch) has survived<BR>
in any meaningful sense. Admittedly, a CT/MT list _might_ get enough of<BR>
us out there to stay alive, but you should assume beforehand that you'll<BR>
lose certain specialized life-forms that have real limits to their time<BR>
available - Misters Wiseman, Thrash, Miller, Pulver, and Johnson. Such a<BR>
list should expect to operate beyond the knowledge of the publishers whom<BR>
it wants to supply them with gaming material. Not good for feedback.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 21:51:15 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
>I know.  My point was they shouldn't need a special community because each<BR>
and every person should be special enough just on their own merits as a<BR>
human being.<BR>
><BR>
And when that day comes, we won't need special "communities" any more.  Till<BR>
then, I am resigned to membership in a number of them.  And it's not all<BR>
bad.<BR>
<BR>
> I've known Kiri for a while (on another list) and have always liked her.<BR>
She's listened to my whinings several times and always was supportive.  How<BR>
else would one define family?  :)<BR>
><BR>
Thanks!  *Hugs!*<BR>
<BR>
I'm family to a lot of people who aren't necessarily Family, Jory.<BR>
<BR>
And if Simegen's not a community I don't know what is!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:50:09 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I vote for Gilbert and Sullivan.<BR>
<BR>
Your vote does not go unheard! Now, I have officially passed from the status<BR>
of Traveller geek to Traveller ubergeek!<BR>
<BR>
Enjoy!<BR>
<BR>
"When I Was 18" (a.k.a. "Ode to Book 7: Merchant Prince")<BR>
<BR>
(sung to the tune of "When I Was A Lad" by Sir Arthur Sullivan. Lyrics<BR>
adapted by Chris "...I had to sing this in chorus for weeks..." Seamans,<BR>
from the original by W.S. Gilbert)<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
When I was 18 I served a term<BR>
As Apprentice in a merchant firm.<BR>
I cleaned the airlock and I swept the floor,<BR>
And I polished up the handle of the starport door.<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
He polished up the handle of the starport door.<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
I polished up that handle so carefullee<BR>
That now I am the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
He polished up that handle so carefullee,<BR>
That now he is the owner of LSP.<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
As Apprentice I caused such a stir,<BR>
That they promoted me to 3rd Officer.<BR>
I bought and sold cargo with a smile so bland,<BR>
And I filled out all the forms in a big round hand.<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
He filled out all the forms in a big round hand.<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
I filled out all the forms in a hand so free,<BR>
That now I am the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
He filled all the forms in a hand so free,<BR>
That now he is the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
With Admin-1, I made such a name<BR>
That a Senior Captain I soon became;<BR>
I wore clean undies and a new vacc suit<BR>
For the pass examination at the Institute.<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
For the pass examination at the Institute.<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
That pass examination did so well for me,<BR>
That now I am the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
That pass examination did so well for he,<BR>
That now he is the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
In  Legal, my level was now four,<BR>
So they made me into a Line Commodore.<BR>
As Line Commodore, I got to wear a cool hat,<BR>
And I never had to bother with "Blade Cbt".<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
And he never had to bother with "Blade Cbt".<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
I'm glad I didn't use Mercenary,<BR>
'Cause now I am the owner of LSP.<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
He's glad he didn't use Mercenary,<BR>
'Cause now he is the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
But I rolled too low, and I got the boot,<BR>
So I bought my way into the Moot.<BR>
I always voted at the megacorps' call,<BR>
And I never thought of thinking for myself at all.<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
He never thought of thinking for himself at all.<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
I thought so little, they rewarded me<BR>
By making me the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
He thought so little, they rewarded he<BR>
By making him the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
Now citizens all, whatever you may be,<BR>
Vargr, Aslan or Vilani,<BR>
If your heart isn't set on the adventuring life,<BR>
You'll hope for Steward-1 when you roll the dice.<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
You'll hope for Steward-1 when you roll the dice.<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
Use Book 7, not 1, 2, or 3,<BR>
And you all may be owners of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
Use Book 7, not 1, 2, or 3,<BR>
And you all may be owners of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1641<BR>
***********************************<BR>
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1641<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1642</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1642<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
re: Ode to Book 7: Merchant Prince<BR>
Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: Family<BR>
RE: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Re Old Games<BR>
Re: Harn <BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
Re: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
[small craft; HG] Shuttle (SMC)<BR>
Re: T5<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1641<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
RE: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
[small craft; HG] RAFM 50-Dt Shuttle variant<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
REPOST: Eneri the Eighth (was: Re: Doug at the stake!...)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:52:51 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Ode to Book 7: Merchant Prince<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
<snip><BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
<Applause> Bravo!! <Applause><BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
Still in writers block over "The Droynes of the Final War" (as done to<BR>
the tune of the "Dukes of Hazzard" theme song).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:12:42 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
I really like some of the techy stuff, at least for some background.  Most<BR>
of the list folks are a lot more educated than I am.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kenji Schwarz" <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
To: "T M L" <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 12:35 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
 This seems<BR>
> like a great thing to me, and I wouldn't mind seeing more lists<BR>
> proliferate, if they're narrowly defined and let the TML stay the general<BR>
> mixing bowl.  I'd personally be glad to have G:T rules and techy stuff go<BR>
> elsewhere, I have to say.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:06:24 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 7:29:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, aramis@gci.net <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< 'd say on an invaseiveness scale, the State of Alaska probably would be<BR>
 around a 3 and the US in general about a 4-5, with Brittain (based upon 2nd<BR>
 hand info, mind you) about a 5-7, and the Soviet Russians were probably<BR>
 about a 9. _Lacey and his Friends_ would protray somewhere around a C-D.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
I don't know about the US and UK being so low. I saw some TV (yeah, I <BR>
know...) show about CCTV/video serveillence in Baltimore, and the UK. It was <BR>
just like Lacey, except it was out in the streets. I know I can expect no <BR>
right to privacy in the open, but it still gives me the creeps. I ALWAYS keep <BR>
my blinds closed now...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:15:57 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
You still on that Simegen List?  I left ages ago.  Kinda got the idea I<BR>
wasn't wanted.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 12:51 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >I know.  My point was they shouldn't need a special community because<BR>
each<BR>
> and every person should be special enough just on their own merits as a<BR>
> human being.<BR>
> ><BR>
> And when that day comes, we won't need special "communities" any more.<BR>
Till<BR>
> then, I am resigned to membership in a number of them.  And it's not all<BR>
> bad.<BR>
><BR>
> > I've known Kiri for a while (on another list) and have always liked her.<BR>
> She's listened to my whinings several times and always was supportive.<BR>
How<BR>
> else would one define family?  :)<BR>
> ><BR>
> Thanks!  *Hugs!*<BR>
><BR>
> I'm family to a lot of people who aren't necessarily Family, Jory.<BR>
><BR>
> And if Simegen's not a community I don't know what is!<BR>
><BR>
> Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:01:48 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
NEW FODDER FOR THE SILLY ERA!!!!<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Chris<BR>
Seamans<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 9:50 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I vote for Gilbert and Sullivan.<BR>
<BR>
Your vote does not go unheard! Now, I have officially passed from the status<BR>
of Traveller geek to Traveller ubergeek!<BR>
<BR>
Enjoy!<BR>
<BR>
"When I Was 18" (a.k.a. "Ode to Book 7: Merchant Prince")<BR>
<BR>
(sung to the tune of "When I Was A Lad" by Sir Arthur Sullivan. Lyrics<BR>
adapted by Chris "...I had to sing this in chorus for weeks..." Seamans,<BR>
from the original by W.S. Gilbert)<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
When I was 18 I served a term<BR>
As Apprentice in a merchant firm.<BR>
I cleaned the airlock and I swept the floor,<BR>
And I polished up the handle of the starport door.<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
He polished up the handle of the starport door.<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
I polished up that handle so carefullee<BR>
That now I am the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
He polished up that handle so carefullee,<BR>
That now he is the owner of LSP.<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
As Apprentice I caused such a stir,<BR>
That they promoted me to 3rd Officer.<BR>
I bought and sold cargo with a smile so bland,<BR>
And I filled out all the forms in a big round hand.<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
He filled out all the forms in a big round hand.<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
I filled out all the forms in a hand so free,<BR>
That now I am the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
He filled all the forms in a hand so free,<BR>
That now he is the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
With Admin-1, I made such a name<BR>
That a Senior Captain I soon became;<BR>
I wore clean undies and a new vacc suit<BR>
For the pass examination at the Institute.<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
For the pass examination at the Institute.<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
That pass examination did so well for me,<BR>
That now I am the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
That pass examination did so well for he,<BR>
That now he is the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
In  Legal, my level was now four,<BR>
So they made me into a Line Commodore.<BR>
As Line Commodore, I got to wear a cool hat,<BR>
And I never had to bother with "Blade Cbt".<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
And he never had to bother with "Blade Cbt".<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
I'm glad I didn't use Mercenary,<BR>
'Cause now I am the owner of LSP.<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
He's glad he didn't use Mercenary,<BR>
'Cause now he is the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
But I rolled too low, and I got the boot,<BR>
So I bought my way into the Moot.<BR>
I always voted at the megacorps' call,<BR>
And I never thought of thinking for myself at all.<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
He never thought of thinking for himself at all.<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
I thought so little, they rewarded me<BR>
By making me the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
He thought so little, they rewarded he<BR>
By making him the owner of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
Now citizens all, whatever you may be,<BR>
Vargr, Aslan or Vilani,<BR>
If your heart isn't set on the adventuring life,<BR>
You'll hope for Steward-1 when you roll the dice.<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
You'll hope for Steward-1 when you roll the dice.<BR>
<BR>
DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
Use Book 7, not 1, 2, or 3,<BR>
And you all may be owners of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS.<BR>
Use Book 7, not 1, 2, or 3,<BR>
And you all may be owners of LSP!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:09:07 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Old Games<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 7:41:26 PM Pacific Standard Time, aramis@gci.net <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< I'd be happy to do a comparison, since I have an extensive collection of<BR>
 TFT stuff... <Wink*Wink*> >><BR>
<BR>
Any duplicates you want to sell?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:12:55 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Harn <BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 7:59:26 PM Pacific Standard Time, tiamat@tsoft.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< My favorite settings were always Renaissance or Victorian, if I couldn't be<BR>
 in the Far Future.<BR>
 <BR>
 And I LOVED Call of Cthulhu.<BR>
 <BR>
 Kiri  =)<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Have you checked out the OP GDW S1889 or the new 7th Seas?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:22:49 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On 01/02/00 at 10:56 PM,  Brian Jenkins <bjenk@sprintmail.com> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >>>I've been told they taste like chicken...<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>Hell, *everything* tastes like chicken. I bet Droyne taste like chicken!<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>Eris<BR>
> >><BR>
> >Actually Droyne tastes like Rattlesnake.   (So I've heard)<BR>
> <BR>
> but rattlesnake tastes like....ah hell! <wink><BR>
<BR>
While I was a young lad, I had rattle-steak.  And it _did_ taste (IIRC),<BR>
most fowl.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:18:18 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
I agree 1000%<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:22:59 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
<BR>
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
>Subject: Re: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
...<BR>
>>  All I can find easily on my drive is Mr. Millers post of 26 May 1998<BR>
>>about jump timing ("Coordinated Jumps, From T4.1"), in which the +D-D<BR>
...<BR>
>+D-D would have the same distribution as 2d6-7 if I understand what<BR>
>it means, ie roll a black die and a white die, subtracting the black<BR>
>from the white.  And to me, at least, it makes perfect sense to vary<BR>
>things around 0.<BR>
><BR>
>Using this as the basis of a Task System would give results very<BR>
>like CT, just normed at 0 rather than 7.  Unless something has<BR>
>changed, though, I don't think Marc has that in mind.<BR>
<BR>
  AFAIK, the task system was to closely resemble T4.1, but I wasn't<BR>
paying real close attention and can't find the posts. Given that<BR>
both the MT and T4.x systems worked and are still used by a fairly<BR>
large body of players I doubt that an entirely new system would be<BR>
desirable at this time.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:23:14 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: [small craft; HG] Shuttle (SMC)<BR>
<BR>
  Here's a break-down of the stats of the Shuttle whose deckplan<BR>
is in Spinward Marches Campaign - by High Guard rules, of course.<BR>
                <BR>
Shuttle (aM)    YY-0102201-000000-00000-0       MCr 9.44        40 tons<BR>
Agility=2.                                       Crew=1           TL=15<BR>
        Passengers=1. Cargo=25.5. Fuel=3.5. EP=1. Low=0.<BR>
<BR>
  This is the closest to a straight conversion of the shuttles carried<BR>
by Al Morai's "World"-class cargo transports. If pressed as a ref, the<BR>
best explanation for the poor design is that either Procurement made a<BR>
serious error in judgement, or the design was in-house and internal<BR>
company politics created it. MCr 7.552 in quantity.<BR>
<BR>
  An obvious refit (or re-design) would see the bridge replaced by a <BR>
computer, and the extra tonnage allocated to passenger ferry/lifeboat<BR>
functions. A Model/1, two control couches for crew, eight couches for<BR>
passengers, and two emergency low berths gives the following results:<BR>
<BR>
Shuttle (aM2)   YY-0102211-000000-00000-0      MCr 11.69        40 tons<BR>
Agility=2.                                       Crew=1           TL=15<BR>
Passengers=9. Emergency Low Berths=2 (for 8). Cargo=25.5. Fuel=3.5. EP=1.<BR>
<BR>
  The bridge area on the original deckplans becomes two rows of passenger<BR>
seating, with the pilots station and one other couch immediately forward<BR>
of that; the emergency low berths are emplaced halfway along the sides of<BR>
the cargo hold, with one module built into each wing root (placing them <BR>
in the nose where they could function as an impact absorber was changed<BR>
very early in the re-design process). MCr 9.352 in quantity.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:21:47 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: T5<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/2/00 8:25:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  could run my campaign in Hero and it would be not substantially different<BR>
 than the one I run now, for that matter. We're concentrating so much on<BR>
 what kind of trees we have, we're missing the forest... >><BR>
<BR>
True. I just want T5 to sell as well as GT...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:25:51 -0800<BR>
From: Brian Jenkins <bjenk@sprintmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1641<BR>
<BR>
>DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
>But I rolled too low, and I got the boot,<BR>
>So I bought my way into the Moot.<BR>
>I always voted at the megacorps' call,<BR>
>And I never thought of thinking for myself at all.<BR>
><BR>
>CHORUS.<BR>
>He never thought of thinking for himself at all.<BR>
><BR>
>DUKE JOSEPH.<BR>
>I thought so little, they rewarded me<BR>
>By making me the owner of LSP!<BR>
><BR>
>CHORUS.<BR>
>He thought so little, they rewarded he<BR>
>By making him the owner of LSP!<BR>
><BR>
I don't think I have laughed that hard in a long time!  How am I ever going<BR>
to get the coffe off of my monitor. And the worst part is I can't show it<BR>
to my wife because she would never understand it!  She is still wondering<BR>
why I woke her up with my laughing!!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Brian Jenkins<BR>
Bjenk@sprinmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:28:48 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
> <BR>
> > I vote for Gilbert and Sullivan.<BR>
> <BR>
> Your vote does not go unheard! Now, I have officially passed from the status<BR>
> of Traveller geek to Traveller ubergeek!<BR>
> <BR>
> Enjoy!<BR>
> <BR>
> "When I Was 18" (a.k.a. "Ode to Book 7: Merchant Prince")<BR>
<BR>
<<snips amazingly funny lyrics>><BR>
<BR>
That's a 2.0, since my neighbor thumped on my wall (it _is_ after<BR>
midnight here).<BR>
<BR>
When did you write this?<BR>
<BR>
And I thought that I did well by helping inspire "Eneri the Eighth, I<BR>
Am"....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:23:43 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
BRAVO!!!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:31:29 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>     I've been playing this game for too many years and NOW, the year 2000,<BR>
> someone points out that the Empress Marava is the same size as the Subbie.<BR>
> Like, they're two pages away from each other and I never noticed! I've been<BR>
> sitting here, shaking my head and counting grid squares. I still can't<BR>
> believe it.<BR>
>     So who came up with the proper stats for the new, improved, 400dt Far<BR>
> Trader?<BR>
<BR>
AuricTech would, but I don't have the deckplans to tell me how much<BR>
space needs to be devoted to cargo, fuel, and other installations.<BR>
<BR>
If you can scan and e-mail me the deckplans, I'll do the ship using<BR>
FF&S2 (T4).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:32:37 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> It's not my fault!  They forced me to make that last post.  There are<BR>
> several penguins in my room all holding tommy guns.  Well, except for the<BR>
> larger one smoking a cigar.<BR>
<BR>
Lucky you!  I had a penguin wave a _lightsaber_ at me....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:27:26 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
Is that one on a site somewhere?!?<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Black ICE<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 10:29 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
><BR>
> > I vote for Gilbert and Sullivan.<BR>
><BR>
> Your vote does not go unheard! Now, I have officially passed from the<BR>
status<BR>
> of Traveller geek to Traveller ubergeek!<BR>
><BR>
> Enjoy!<BR>
><BR>
> "When I Was 18" (a.k.a. "Ode to Book 7: Merchant Prince")<BR>
<BR>
<<snips amazingly funny lyrics>><BR>
<BR>
That's a 2.0, since my neighbor thumped on my wall (it _is_ after<BR>
midnight here).<BR>
<BR>
When did you write this?<BR>
<BR>
And I thought that I did well by helping inspire "Eneri the Eighth, I<BR>
Am"....<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:46:26 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
"Kelly St.Clair" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Then there's the more mainstream version of "the Family"...<BR>
> oh dear God, you've just given me the image of a bunch of queens in Armani<BR>
> and high-pitched Sicilian voices.  I think I need to go lie down now.<BR>
<BR>
"Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-daaa-d-da-daaaa<BR>
"Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-daaa-d-da-daaaa<BR>
"Da-da-da-daaaa<BR>
"Da-da-da-daaaa<BR>
"Da-da-da-da-daaa-d-da-da-da-da-da-daaaa..."<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:55:27 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
You know, I think this whole penguin thing is a government plot.  Didn't you<BR>
ever notice the recent videos of Bill and Hillary Clinton are spliced older<BR>
footage?<BR>
<BR>
What has really happened is Penguins From Outer Space have landed and have<BR>
used the Penguin Ray to convert the first family into penguins.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Black ICE" <wombat@premier.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 1:32 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > It's not my fault!  They forced me to make that last post.  There are<BR>
> > several penguins in my room all holding tommy guns.  Well, except for<BR>
the<BR>
> > larger one smoking a cigar.<BR>
><BR>
> Lucky you!  I had a penguin wave a _lightsaber_ at me....<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
> "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
> Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:52:24 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: [small craft; HG] RAFM 50-Dt Shuttle variant<BR>
<BR>
  In addition to the SMC version of the (40-Dt) Shuttle (and of course<BR>
the 95-Dt version using the similar artwork from TTB) there's also the<BR>
TNE metal miniature version from RAFM [cat#5813 "Shuttle (3/pack)"]. <BR>
There are substantial differences, including entirely different deckplans<BR>
 - the engines are larger, there's no rear cargo ramp, the wing structure<BR>
is different (trailing edges are perpendicular to the hull rather than<BR>
swept) and there appear to be large cargo hatches in the top of the body.<BR>
<BR>
  Thus, and again by High Guard rules:<BR>
                                                                <BR>
Shuttle (RAFM)    YY-0103311-000000-00000-0     MCr 14.6        50 tons<BR>
Agility=3.                                       Crew=1           TL=15<BR>
        Passengers=7. Cargo=37.5. Fuel=2. EP=1.5. Low=0.<BR>
<BR>
  Presumably this is a later version intended either for sale outside<BR>
the company (if produced by Al Morai or a subsidiary at Mora) or as a<BR>
ground-based improvement to the Type MK's own integral shuttles; if the<BR>
MK's shuttle bays are configured as one large hangar then the 50-Dt <BR>
shuttles may also be envisaged as a replacement for the current three <BR>
shuttle establishment, perhaps with a specialized personnel ferry boat<BR>
to round out the capacity. Like the computer-equipped 40-Dt shuttle no<BR>
bridge is installed in order to maximize payload tonnage. MCr 11.68 in <BR>
quantity.<BR>
<BR>
  The roof hatches can handle standard 54m^3 cargo containers, with stowage<BR>
for two rows three long in the hold (~23-Dt), plus 27m^3 boxes in both the<BR>
standard cubes and half-height slabs to round out the bays capacity. A 3-Dt<BR>
section immediately behind the control/passenger cabin is configured to<BR>
take a further six-seat passenger module should the shuttle need to be <BR>
configured for more intense liner support duties.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson, 1999.<BR>
<BR>
The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:55:50 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
>AuricTech would, but I don't have the deckplans to tell me how much<BR>
>space needs to be devoted to cargo, fuel, and other installations.<BR>
><BR>
>If you can scan and e-mail me the deckplans, I'll do the ship using<BR>
>FF&S2 (T4).<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
><BR>
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
    my little calculator is smoking as we speak! Unfortunately I don't have<BR>
a scanner.<BR>
<BR>
    From grid counting I get the following:<BR>
<BR>
    Hull space: 460.5 dtons (+2dtons if you count the turrets)<BR>
    Engineering space: 138.5 dtons<BR>
    Cargo: 88 dtons (+16dtons if you include the cargo airlocks)<BR>
    Fuel: 125.5 dtons<BR>
    Computer: 2.5dtons<BR>
<BR>
    Which leaves us with 90dtons from which we have 8 x normal staterooms, 1<BR>
x stateroom that has an extra 0.5dton added to it and the captains mondo<BR>
8.5dton cabin. This section is difficult to extrapolate because the<BR>
staterooms are usually only 75% of their displacement (eg, they are only<BR>
3dtons on the plan) so the captains stateroom could have a displacement of<BR>
12.75dtons. There is also 4 x 0.5dton low berths, a 2dton ships locker, a<BR>
2tdon irregular area I have always assumed was for smuggling and a strange<BR>
little 3dton air/raft. The rest is essentially circulation space, corridors<BR>
and common areas apart from the bridges 6dtons.<BR>
    Confusing, I know but thats the best I can do. I'm trying to do some CT<BR>
stats for it right now, then I'll attempt some MT stats (wish me luck!)<BR>
    Jim.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:01:08 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: REPOST: Eneri the Eighth (was: Re: Doug at the stake!...)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Is that one on a site somewhere?!?<BR>
<BR>
Not yet.  Doug had mentioned that he was planning to put it on his<BR>
Traveller: The Silly Era page, but he never got around to it.<BR>
<BR>
Fear not, however, for I saved the posts on a separate archive, for just<BR>
such an emergency.<BR>
<BR>
Here's my original post (dated 02 June 1999), followed by the definitive<BR>
lyrics:<BR>
<BR>
<<begin original post>><BR>
<BR>
<tongue-in-cheek><BR>
<BR>
At some point during the early days of Vilani/Terran contact, some<BR>
Vilani _must_ have heard the Herman's Hermits song, "I'm Henry the VIII<BR>
I Am."  As I see it, the Vilani would be wondering:<BR>
<BR>
1.  How did these Terrans know about Great-Uncle Eneri and Great-Aunt<BR>
Iikush?<BR>
<BR>
2.  How was it that these Terrans could pronounce Great-Uncle Eneri's<BR>
name correctly, but couldn't spell it correctly.<BR>
<BR>
</tongue-in-cheek><BR>
<BR>
<<end original post>><BR>
<BR>
<<begin definitive lyrics>><BR>
<BR>
Eneri the Eighth, I Am (the definitive version)<BR>
<BR>
Lyrics by Steven Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
I'm Eneri the Eighth, I am,<BR>
    Eneri the Eighth, I am, I am.<BR>
    I've been fighting the Terrans next door,<BR>
    We've been beaten seven times before.<BR>
    And ev'ry time 'twas an Eneri  (Eneri!)<BR>
    Never wouldn't do an Enli or a Gam.  (No sir!)<BR>
    I'm the eighth from Vland that was Eneri,<BR>
    Eneri the Eighth I am.<BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
<<end definitive lyrics>><BR>
<BR>
E! N! E-R-I!<BR>
Eneri, Eneri,<BR>
Eneri the Eighth I am, I am,<BR>
Eneri the Eighth I am!<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1642<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1643</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1643<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: REPOST: Eneri the Eighth (was: Re: Doug at the stake!...)<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: REPOST: Eneri the Eighth (was: Re: Doug at the stake!...)<BR>
New Group! xboat@egroups.com<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
New Group! xboat@egroups.com<BR>
Re Victorian Gaming<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: JumpDrives<BR>
Re: SJG bashing<BR>
Re: JumpDrives<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: New Group! xboat@egroups.com<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: Re Victorian Gaming<BR>
Re: SJG bashing<BR>
Re: New Group! xboat@egroups.com<BR>
Re: SJG bashing<BR>
Re: New Group! xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:57:11 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: REPOST: Eneri the Eighth (was: Re: Doug at the stake!...)<BR>
<BR>
Outstanding!  If I'd seen it before, I must have forgotten it, but something<BR>
THAT cool & funny I'dve remembered (I hope ;)  Just wish the rest of the<BR>
verses were filled out [subtle hint, applied via sledgehammer]<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Black ICE<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 11:01 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: REPOST: Eneri the Eighth (was: Re: Doug at the stake!...)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> Is that one on a site somewhere?!?<BR>
<BR>
Not yet.  Doug had mentioned that he was planning to put it on his<BR>
Traveller: The Silly Era page, but he never got around to it.<BR>
<BR>
Fear not, however, for I saved the posts on a separate archive, for just<BR>
such an emergency.<BR>
<BR>
Here's my original post (dated 02 June 1999), followed by the definitive<BR>
lyrics:<BR>
<BR>
<<begin original post>><BR>
<BR>
<tongue-in-cheek><BR>
<BR>
At some point during the early days of Vilani/Terran contact, some<BR>
Vilani _must_ have heard the Herman's Hermits song, "I'm Henry the VIII<BR>
I Am."  As I see it, the Vilani would be wondering:<BR>
<BR>
1.  How did these Terrans know about Great-Uncle Eneri and Great-Aunt<BR>
Iikush?<BR>
<BR>
2.  How was it that these Terrans could pronounce Great-Uncle Eneri's<BR>
name correctly, but couldn't spell it correctly.<BR>
<BR>
</tongue-in-cheek><BR>
<BR>
<<end original post>><BR>
<BR>
<<begin definitive lyrics>><BR>
<BR>
Eneri the Eighth, I Am (the definitive version)<BR>
<BR>
Lyrics by Steven Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
I'm Eneri the Eighth, I am,<BR>
    Eneri the Eighth, I am, I am.<BR>
    I've been fighting the Terrans next door,<BR>
    We've been beaten seven times before.<BR>
    And ev'ry time 'twas an Eneri  (Eneri!)<BR>
    Never wouldn't do an Enli or a Gam.  (No sir!)<BR>
    I'm the eighth from Vland that was Eneri,<BR>
    Eneri the Eighth I am.<BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
<<end definitive lyrics>><BR>
<BR>
E! N! E-R-I!<BR>
Eneri, Eneri,<BR>
Eneri the Eighth I am, I am,<BR>
Eneri the Eighth I am!<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:14:01 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snips grid count>><BR>
<BR>
I take it that this is a CT/MT deckplan (i.e., 1.5 meter squares, 2<BR>
squares per dton).<BR>
<BR>
If so, then I should have something in T4 in the next couple of days<BR>
(it's semester break at Baton Rouge Community College).<BR>
<BR>
Note that I normally don't deal with deckplans, but I should be able to<BR>
come close.<BR>
<BR>
>     Confusing, I know but thats the best I can do. I'm trying to do some CT<BR>
> stats for it right now, then I'll attempt some MT stats (wish me luck!)<BR>
<BR>
But of course!  After all, gearheads of all versions need to stick<BR>
together!  We are the Traveller equivalent of James Bond's most<BR>
important (IMHO) NPC, Q!  We are the ones who answer the Joker's<BR>
question in the first of the current Batman movies:<BR>
<BR>
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?"<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:17:08 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: REPOST: Eneri the Eighth (was: Re: Doug at the stake!...)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Outstanding!  If I'd seen it before, I must have forgotten it, but something<BR>
> THAT cool & funny I'dve remembered (I hope ;)  Just wish the rest of the<BR>
> verses were filled out [subtle hint, applied via sledgehammer]<BR>
<BR>
Well, considering that the only other verse consists of the line,<BR>
"Second verse, same as the first!", followed by a repeating of the first<BR>
verse, then the ending that I posted, everything _is_ here.  (Or, at<BR>
least, it's in this thread, since I'm snipping the rest of this post for<BR>
brevity's sake in the digest.)<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:24:08 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: New Group! xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
Well, as the one who posted the original GURPS vs. T5 message, I want to<BR>
thank those who had something constructive to say.  Overall, however, I<BR>
was completely disappointed with the childish flame war.  I'm just<BR>
getting back into Traveller after a year off and realize that this list<BR>
has a totally unacceptable signal to noise ratio for my tastes (that's<BR>
not to say that it isn't a fun list or anything...it's just I have<BR>
plenty of purely social outlets...I just don't have enough time in a day<BR>
to slog through 100-300 posts of non-traveller related posts.)  I long<BR>
for the good 'ol days of XBoat. <BR>
<BR>
So with that in mind, I'd like to announce a new list:<BR>
<BR>
xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
To subscribe: simply send a blank message to xboat-subscribe@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
The focus will be:<BR>
<BR>
All background material before say 1110? (I'm flexible on this)<BR>
Current GURPS Traveller timeline (which extends to 1117?) and published<BR>
material<BR>
GURPS Traveller mechanics and supplements<BR>
<BR>
Hopefully fruitful topics such as:<BR>
<BR>
Trade & Finance in the 3I:<BR>
  Do neighboring worlds always conform to using the Imperial Credit for<BR>
interstellar trade?<BR>
  Advanced interstellar finance rules: multilateral trade and capital<BR>
flow effects (maybe for small clusters of worlds?)<BR>
  The black market and it's impact on the growth of the Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
Politics and Control:<BR>
  What are some interesting differences and consequences of economic and<BR>
military expansion in the Imperium?<BR>
  MegaCorps vs. Imperial Government<BR>
<BR>
Current Events:<BR>
  The SJ Traveller New Service (I'd love to be able to have a rumor mill<BR>
centered around TNS).<BR>
<BR>
Role-playing and adventure creation:<BR>
   Strategies for letting players explore the entire setting (up and<BR>
down the timeline)?<BR>
   How would one put together a 6 scenario campaign centered around one<BR>
world spanning 1000 years?<BR>
<BR>
War and the Military:<BR>
  Who might be in control of the Imperial military...who THINKS they are<BR>
in control? <BR>
  What are the ramifications of rogue military action on low tech level<BR>
worlds (Apocalypse Now?)<BR>
<BR>
Technology:<BR>
  A decent computer system?<BR>
  Longbow II (TONS of good stuff here)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Current and Up Coming GURPS Supplements<BR>
<BR>
Obviously this are just a few things that are clanking around in my<BR>
head, but the basic idea is to explore interplanetary mechanics,<BR>
campaigning ideas, etc. as they relate to the currently published GURPS<BR>
line and basically the CT background.  Ship building, world building,<BR>
etc. is totally cool provided it be essentially centered around the<BR>
GURPS system...there are PLENTY of gear head lists for those who want<BR>
them.<BR>
<BR>
Finally, I will try VERY hard to maintain a decent FAQ with hashed over<BR>
topics and interesting discussions clearly marked!!   Though I might<BR>
need some help in this area.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I hope some of you join me.  I'm very interested in exploring these<BR>
ideas and/or your ideas and really don't have the time to deal with<BR>
anything other than a dense, intelligent, focused list.  The first few<BR>
days, I'm sure, will be a little slow, but I'm really hoping we can get<BR>
some interesting stuff going.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks much,<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:19:31 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
>Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
><<snips grid count>><BR>
><BR>
>I take it that this is a CT/MT deckplan (i.e., 1.5 meter squares, 2<BR>
>squares per dton).<BR>
><BR>
>If so, then I should have something in T4 in the next couple of days<BR>
>(it's semester break at Baton Rouge Community College).<BR>
<BR>
    Yep, Classic Traveller. It's the plans from Supplement 7, Traders and<BR>
Gunboats. Funny thing is, I can't get the stats to work in CT. It states<BR>
clearly in book 2 that crew members must have individual staterooms on<BR>
commercial vessels but they seem to be two to a stateroom.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 02:26:47 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: New Group! xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Bailey wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
<New group stuff snipped><BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
Stuart, sounds like you want a moderated TML. Your foci and suggested<BR>
topics are both appropriate to and common on the TML, but you want<BR>
a mechanism (self-policing?) for keeping off-topic stuff and flamewars<BR>
off the list.<BR>
<BR>
Good luck with your new list, I won't be there. The signal-to-noise here<BR>
isn't low enough for me to bail, *especially* considering that this is the <BR>
holiday season when things traditionally get a little nuts. Your concept<BR>
for a new list is not sufficiently different from this list to make it,<BR>
in my opinion, a useful list to join. <BR>
<BR>
I think some lists are useful ideas, as long as they have a more<BR>
specific focus than the ideas presented by Stuart. For example:<BR>
<BR>
I've been sending my ideas for High Guard house rules to the<BR>
ct-starships list, and my progress reports on deckplan projects to the<BR>
deckplans mailing list. I intend to post results - such as URL's to<BR>
pages where I put up "finished products" - to the TML. Thus a twenty<BR>
post discussion on roles and rules for Flag Bridges in High Guard<BR>
becomes only one post for a GT/T4/TNE fan to ignore on the TML,<BR>
while still allowing the interested TML'ers to enjoy the results.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:34:21 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Victorian Gaming<BR>
<BR>
>In a message dated 1/2/00 7:59:26 PM Pacific Standard Time, tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
>writes:<BR>
><BR>
><< My favorite settings were always Renaissance or Victorian, if I couldn't be<BR>
> in the Far Future.<BR>
><BR>
> And I LOVED Call of Cthulhu.<BR>
><BR>
> Kiri  =)<BR>
>  >><BR>
><BR>
>Have you checked out the OP GDW S1889 or the new 7th Seas?<BR>
<BR>
And don't forget Castle Falkenstein. And for those who hate card-based (as<BR>
opposed to dice-based) gaming, there are dice-based optional rules in one<BR>
of the books (I'm too lazy to go fetch them and figure out which right now).<BR>
<BR>
Which brings up a wonderful idea: Traveller under Falkenstein's card-based<BR>
engine...<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:42:56 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
> >><BR>
> ><<snips grid count>><BR>
> ><BR>
> >I take it that this is a CT/MT deckplan (i.e., 1.5 meter squares, 2<BR>
> >squares per dton).<BR>
> ><BR>
> >If so, then I should have something in T4 in the next couple of days<BR>
> >(it's semester break at Baton Rouge Community College).<BR>
> <BR>
>     Yep, Classic Traveller. It's the plans from Supplement 7, Traders and<BR>
> Gunboats. Funny thing is, I can't get the stats to work in CT. It states<BR>
> clearly in book 2 that crew members must have individual staterooms on<BR>
> commercial vessels but they seem to be two to a stateroom.<BR>
<BR>
Don't worry, I (using T4/FF&S2) will split the baby, by using small<BR>
staterooms for crewbeings (ezcept, of course for the captain).  (Should<BR>
I call this a Solomon Industries design?  Naaaah.)<BR>
<BR>
Also, I suspect that a fair amount of the extra tonnage (460.5 dtons,<BR>
rather than 400 dtons, and the unusually large fuel capacity or 125.5<BR>
dtons) can be accounted for under FF&S2, depending on the choice of<BR>
configuration.  Since I don't own Supp 7, I need to know the following<BR>
(at a minimum):<BR>
<BR>
1.  What is the performance of the ship (both jump and n-space)?<BR>
<BR>
2.  How is the ship armed?<BR>
<BR>
3.  What is the armor rating of the ship?<BR>
<BR>
4.  What is the passenger capacity of the ship?<BR>
<BR>
I suspect that, using FF&S2, I'll be able to manage more cargo space, at<BR>
the expense of engineering space.  Do your deck plans include any areas<BR>
in which cargo and engineering spaces border each other? <BR>
<BR>
Given the information already provided, plus the answers to the above<BR>
questions, I feel confident that AuricTech can provide a T4/FF&S2 design<BR>
that reasonably approximates the actual (400 dton) deckplan in question.<BR>
<BR>
As always when providing a requested design, our only naval architect<BR>
fee, should you use our design, is that you inform your players that<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards designed the ship in question.  (I figure that my<BR>
work should be rewarded by a bit of ego-boo, if nothing else....)<BR>
<BR>
If your players would like more information about our firm, I can easily<BR>
provide such for both M:0  and M:1100, upon request.<BR>
 <BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:48:06 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: JumpDrives<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 18:02:15 +1100<BR>
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
<BR>
>    When a Jump Drive is engaged, does it . . .<BR>
>1, expend all it's fuel at once by launching the jump and then coast for a<BR>
>week?<BR>
>2, expend half of its fuel opening a "Jump Gate," use its manoeuvre drive to<BR>
>negotiate the "Jump Tunnel" for a week and then expend the remaining half of<BR>
>it's jump fuel opening another "Jump Gate" to real space?<BR>
>3, expend all it's fuel in a steady usage over the jump time? (I always<BR>
>thought this was the case, but if you have a six day trip, won't you save<BR>
>fuel?)<BR>
<BR>
I always liked #1 because I think having to spend a _lot_ of<BR>
energy to rip open the fabric of space is impressive....<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 23:55:06 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Hey Kiri, you going to be at the next BayCon for Doug's "Strephon Silver<BR>
> Jubilee" party?<BR>
<BR>
Is that gonna be after the K'Kree roast?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:57:17 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: JumpDrives<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 01:35:05 -0600<BR>
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
>Canonically, based on the existence of drop tanks (described in several<BR>
>canon sources), all the fuel required for jump is expended in jump<BR>
>initiation.<BR>
><BR>
>Many players are not satisfied with this answer, which leads to<BR>
>interminable arguments.<BR>
><BR>
>Note that answer #1, although supported by canon (drop tanks), leads to<BR>
>two heresies:<BR>
><BR>
>1.  Ships with _no_ jump fuel tankage onboard, relying solely on drop<BR>
>tanks for jump fuel (obviously, this allows ships with both high jump<BR>
>numbers and large cargo capacity, factors which are mutually exclusive<BR>
>if a ship must carry its own jump fuel).<BR>
><BR>
>2.  Ships which receive their jump capacitor charge from an external<BR>
>source (this allows for high-jump ships with neither jump fuel nor<BR>
>high-capacity power plants).<BR>
<BR>
Note: this depends on your being able to use the fuel just<BR>
_before_.  If you can only use it in the act of jumping, then<BR>
then this isn't proble (though drop tanks aren't possible either,<BR>
but I think they were a mistake myself).<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 19:00:13 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jim & Peta Lawrie <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Monday, 3 January 2000 5:58<BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>AuricTech would, but I don't have the deckplans to tell me how much<BR>
>>space needs to be devoted to cargo, fuel, and other installations.<BR>
<BR>
>    Confusing, I know but thats the best I can do. I'm trying to do some CT<BR>
>stats for it right now, then I'll attempt some MT stats (wish me luck!)<BR>
>    Jim.<BR>
<BR>
    Just finished the roughy and it's come out a little odd to say the<BR>
least.<BR>
<BR>
A2 class Far Trader (CT)<BR>
460 displacement tons. Jump-2, 3G.<BR>
Jump Drive: G<BR>
Manoeuvre Drive: L<BR>
Power Plant: L x 2<BR>
Fuel: 125.5 tons (31 days + 1 x jump2)<BR>
Cargo: 88 tons + 16 emergency (In the cargo locks)<BR>
<BR>
    It's going to need three more Engineers but it's the only way I can get<BR>
the huge Drive Section to work. What a beast! It comes out phenominally<BR>
over-engineered, with it's new speed and bullet proof drive room it would<BR>
have to be the most survivable frieghter out there apart from a Leviathan.<BR>
I'm still doing the Accomodation!<BR>
    Jim.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 02:18:14 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: Re: New Group! xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Good luck with your new list, I won't be there. The signal-to-noise here<BR>
> isn't low enough for me to bail, *especially* considering that this is the<BR>
> holiday season when things traditionally get a little nuts. Your concept<BR>
> for a new list is not sufficiently different from this list to make it,<BR>
> in my opinion, a useful list to join.<BR>
> <BR>
> I think some lists are useful ideas, as long as they have a more<BR>
> specific focus than the ideas presented by Stuart.<BR>
<BR>
My hope is that a GURPS Traveller focus will automatically eliminate<BR>
THAT aspect of the bickering and let us focus on GURPS published<BR>
material, mechanics, and the current timeline as presented in SJ's TNS. <BR>
My hope is that we can foster a list that averages 1-10 dense,<BR>
interesting posts a day...nothing too ambitious<BR>
<BR>
I just want to wake up, drink some coffee, spend a nice 10 minutes to 1<BR>
hour thinking, reading, writing, and exchanging ideas about GURPS<BR>
Traveller (not saying hi, not musing about the 2000 Election, not making<BR>
jokes about NASA, etc.), then go about the rest of my life (where I DO<BR>
all those other things like making fun of NASA ).<BR>
<BR>
(Ad -- if this sound like you: send a blank message to<BR>
xboat-subscribe@egroups.com)<BR>
<BR>
But maybe I'm too much of an idealist.<BR>
<BR>
I hope you'll at least give a lurk from time to time.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks much,<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 19:12:24 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
>Don't worry, I (using T4/FF&S2) will split the baby, by using small<BR>
>staterooms for crewbeings (ezcept, of course for the captain).  (Should<BR>
>I call this a Solomon Industries design?  Naaaah.)<BR>
><BR>
>Also, I suspect that a fair amount of the extra tonnage (460.5 dtons,<BR>
>rather than 400 dtons, and the unusually large fuel capacity or 125.5<BR>
>dtons) can be accounted for under FF&S2, depending on the choice of<BR>
>configuration.  Since I don't own Supp 7, I need to know the following<BR>
>(at a minimum):<BR>
><BR>
>1.  What is the performance of the ship (both jump and n-space)?<BR>
<BR>
    It's supposed to be Jump2, 1G.<BR>
<BR>
>2.  How is the ship armed?<BR>
<BR>
    2 x Turrets (Empty)<BR>
<BR>
>3.  What is the armor rating of the ship?<BR>
<BR>
    Basic civilian (40 in MT)<BR>
<BR>
>4.  What is the passenger capacity of the ship?<BR>
<BR>
    6 x Large Staterooms<BR>
<BR>
>I suspect that, using FF&S2, I'll be able to manage more cargo space, at<BR>
>the expense of engineering space.  Do your deck plans include any areas<BR>
>in which cargo and engineering spaces border each other?<BR>
<BR>
    I thought of that, the fuel tankage could be thinned and the cargo area<BR>
heightened. (The fuel is over the cargo.) Assuming that the bulkhead over<BR>
the cargo is 1m thick and the cargo secton is 16 x 11 gridsquares(1.5m x<BR>
1.5m x 3.0m squares)<BR>
<BR>
>Given the information already provided, plus the answers to the above<BR>
>questions, I feel confident that AuricTech can provide a T4/FF&S2 design<BR>
>that reasonably approximates the actual (400 dton) deckplan in question.<BR>
><BR>
>As always when providing a requested design, our only naval architect<BR>
>fee, should you use our design, is that you inform your players that<BR>
>AuricTech Shipyards designed the ship in question.  (I figure that my<BR>
>work should be rewarded by a bit of ego-boo, if nothing else....)<BR>
><BR>
>If your players would like more information about our firm, I can easily<BR>
>provide such for both M:0  and M:1100, upon request.<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
><BR>
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 19:19:54 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Victorian Gaming<BR>
<BR>
My favorite settings were always Renaissance or Victorian, if I couldn't be<BR>
>> in the Far Future.<BR>
>> Kiri  =)<BR>
>><BR>
>>Have you checked out the OP GDW S1889 or the new 7th Seas?<BR>
><BR>
>And don't forget Castle Falkenstein. And for those who hate card-based (as<BR>
>opposed to dice-based) gaming, there are dice-based optional rules in one<BR>
>of the books (I'm too lazy to go fetch them and figure out which right<BR>
now).<BR>
>William F. Hostman<BR>
<BR>
    I definitely recommend the Victorian Adventure Gaming Ring:<BR>
http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=vag;list<BR>
    The Space 1889 list is a good place to speak to like minded Adventurers<BR>
In A More Civilised Time:<BR>
s1889@onelist.com<BR>
    and if you can get into our wonderful PbEM at:<BR>
victoriaregina@onelist.com<BR>
    Say hello to Captain Hamilton!<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 02:34:39 -0600<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Hey Kiri, you going to be at the next BayCon for Doug's "Strephon Silver<BR>
> > Jubilee" party?<BR>
> <BR>
> Is that gonna be after the K'Kree roast?<BR>
<BR>
I was under the impression that Roast K'Kree would be the entree....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 03:26:09 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: New Group! xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Bailey wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
My hope is that a GURPS Traveller focus will automatically eliminate<BR>
THAT aspect of the bickering and let us focus on GURPS published<BR>
material, mechanics, and the current timeline as presented in SJ's TNS. <BR>
My hope is that we can foster a list that averages 1-10 dense,<BR>
interesting posts a day...nothing too ambitious<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
Ah, a G:T focus...I read your post to indicate an acceptance and inclusion<BR>
of G:T, rather than a focus on it. The list makes more sense now, but<BR>
the name for it does not. To each their own.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:43:08 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
John Groth wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > Hey Kiri, you going to be at the next BayCon for Doug's "Strephon Silver<BR>
> > > Jubilee" party?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Is that gonna be after the K'Kree roast?<BR>
><BR>
> I was under the impression that Roast K'Kree would be the entree....<BR>
<BR>
Oh.....<BR>
<BR>
Well, then I will bring the formal Backhoe then.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:43:09 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: New Group! xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
Date sent:      	Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:24:08 -0600<BR>
From:           	Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
<BR>
> So with that in mind, I'd like to announce a new list:<BR>
<BR>
Well, please remember that you managed to join just as the worst <BR>
flamewar in a long time broke out (actually more like a toasting of a <BR>
single individual, but what the heck). I for one do not support a <BR>
seperate GT list, never have, never will. The signal to noise ratio <BR>
here is usually pretty good, the festive season always seems to <BR>
bring out the OT in us all. Discussion of the GT timeline or specific <BR>
GURPS mechanics have always been pretty light anyway. The rest <BR>
of your topics are not GT specific and I think you'd generate more <BR>
debate here.<BR>
<BR>
Nonetheless, good luck with the new list, I hope it goes well; just <BR>
hope we don't totally lose your input here.<BR>
<BR>
Andrew etc<BR>
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1643<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1644</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1644<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1639<BR>
[small craft; HG] 95-Dt Shuttle (TTB)<BR>
xboat@egroups.com: MODERATED GT list<BR>
re: Old Games<BR>
Re: New Group! <BR>
The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
RE: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
Re: JumpDrives<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
RE: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
On the original question...  (was Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
RE: in jokes<BR>
RE: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
RE: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
RE: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
Re: Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 04:02:57 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1639<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 23:16:13 -0500<BR>
>From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
><BR>
>On 01/02/2000 23:08, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Doug carelessly typed:<BR>
>>>><BR>
>>> You stated that those who write GURPS Traveller should be burned.  I am<BR>
>>> writing GURPS Traveller.  Perhaps, in my case, a light singing will do?<BR>
>>>><BR>
>>><BR>
>>> A light *singing*??? perhaps some light opera or a Broadway medley?<BR>
>><BR>
>> I vote for Gilbert and Sullivan.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Hmmm. "HMS Pinafore" in Traveller?<BR>
><BR>
>"I am the very model of a modern Major General...."<BR>
><BR>
The MT chargen sequence made my skill list quite formidable...<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
Veni, Vidi, Vaca.<BR>
I came, I saw, I had a cow<BR>
  - Bart Caeser<BR>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:01:33 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: [small craft; HG] 95-Dt Shuttle (TTB)<BR>
<BR>
  This comes as close as possible to the specs listed in TTB (71 Dt of<BR>
cargo, MCr 33). Presumably this is an older design, perhaps the one that<BR>
the SMC 40-Dt shuttle was modelled on (which obviously served an earlier<BR>
generation of Al Morai cargo carriers):<BR>
<BR>
Shuttle         YY-0103321-000000-00000-0       MCr 41.645      95 tons<BR>
Agility=3.                                      Crew=2            TL=13<BR>
Emergency Low Berths=1 (for 4). Cargo=70.85. LHyd=2.85. EP=2.85. Low=0.<BR>
<BR>
  L-Hyd capacity is for a full month, and a small craft stateroom is installed<BR>
for long-duration in-system operations. No bridge is installed, but the basic<BR>
computer is powerful enough to still allow the potential for significant fire-<BR>
power utilization; 2 tons are already allocated for armaments if such should<BR>
prove necessary. Scoops and hoses for refuelling are included. A wide variety<BR>
of customizations are possible given the size of the cargo hold and the common-<BR>
place nature of the craft itself. Most cargo handling is through a ramp rear<BR>
door (full hold width & height, 9m by 4.5m; the main hold itself 24m long) and<BR>
a smaller (3m wide) ramp located forward on the underbody. Two ceiling hatches<BR>
are also located at the front of the hold, in a section commonly separated from<BR>
the main hold in variant configurations. MCr 33.316 in quantity.<BR>
<BR>
Dimensions: 36m long, by 16m wide, by 5.6m high. Fins add 2m to height.<BR>
Wingspan 40m.<BR>
<BR>
  A higher TL version is clearly desirable for anything with such a high<BR>
performance (and thus a high power plant number for which the TL multiplier<BR>
is to be applied), or for refs that want the MCr 33 to be the pre-discount<BR>
price. MCr 26.653 in quantity:<BR>
<BR>
Shuttle         YY-0103321-000000-00000-0       MCr 33.095      95 tons<BR>
Agility=3.                                      Crew=2            TL=15<BR>
Emergency Low Berths=1 (for 4). Cargo=73.7. LHyd=2.85. EP=2.85. Low=0.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson, 1999.<BR>
<BR>
The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 03:20:20 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: xboat@egroups.com: MODERATED GT list<BR>
<BR>
Just to clarify (and be more focused as suggested):<BR>
<BR>
xboat@egroups.com is a MODERATED list for GURPS Traveller discussions. <BR>
<BR>
Moderation criteria is a follows (and I'm sure this will change and<BR>
evolve as we go):<BR>
<BR>
Posts will be cut if they:<BR>
<BR>
1) Do not relate to Traveller<BR>
2) Are SPECIFIC to CT/MT/TNE/T4 <BR>
4) Do not advance a thread (i.e. one liners like "I agree" will not be<BR>
post) Obviously, this is the most subjective criteria...but let's give<BR>
it a try.<BR>
<BR>
The goals of moderation are to foster LOW volume and HIGH density (post<BR>
less but think more).    Similar to comp.unix.wizards if you've ever<BR>
subscribed to that group.<BR>
<BR>
I will be happy to moderate at first, but if others would like to<BR>
co-moderate that would be great.<BR>
<BR>
Again, I really want to stress I'm NOT bashing TML.  It's just not my<BR>
cup of tea right now..and if there are others like me...let's get<BR>
together!  <BR>
<BR>
send blank message to: xboat-subscribe@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
I'm also totally open to suggestions to make this idea/list better.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks much,<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 04:22:19 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: re: Old Games<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>I grieved for my lost copy of _Monsters!, Monsters!_ while looking<BR>
>>over it.... <G><BR>
>><BR>
>_Monsters! Monsters!_, lessee here, the copy I've borrowed says 1976,<BR>
>1979, and is from Flying Buffalo, not Metagaming....<BR>
<BR>
 There are TWO editions of this. I have the Metagaming edition, and have seen <BR>
the Flying Buffalo edition. The game is a variant of Tunnels & Trolls, and <BR>
was apparently published first by Metagaming (my copy says 1976) then later <BR>
by FB when they were well underway.  MM was one of the first RPGs I bought...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:27:59 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: New Group! <BR>
<BR>
>From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: New Group! xboat@egroups.com<BR>
...<BR>
>My hope is that a GURPS Traveller focus will automatically eliminate<BR>
>THAT aspect of the bickering and let us focus on GURPS published<BR>
>material, mechanics, and the current timeline as presented in SJ's TNS. <BR>
>My hope is that we can foster a list that averages 1-10 dense,<BR>
>interesting posts a day...nothing too ambitious<BR>
<BR>
  In all seriousness, get your Pyramid subscription and unsub from the<BR>
TML; the only non-GURPS: Traveller specific discussion on the Traveller<BR>
board there is which bits of info (G:T vs non-) conflict, plus maybe<BR>
whether or not to back the Cthulhu candidacy for 2000...<BR>
<BR>
  You also get access to the playtest files and feedback boards for the<BR>
various GURPS: Traveller books in progress - why bitch after the fact <BR>
when you can complain while the poor hacks are still slaving away over<BR>
their word-processors (waitaminit - that lets them cover their tracks!)<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson - a CT person on the G:T list - go figure!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 04:27:28 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
<BR>
The horror continues! Will it ever stop? Yes, actually, I'm exhausted now,<BR>
so you are safe from Traveller themed song parodies for the moment. I<BR>
apologize if I'm annoying anybody with my marginally humorous song parodies.<BR>
*However*, I have had to watch a flamewar develop which makes World War I<BR>
trench warfare look like a Church Picnic.<BR>
<BR>
That's bound to make anyone loopy. The following tune is to be sung to the<BR>
lyrics of "Bohemian Rhapsody". The lyrics have been adapted by Chris<BR>
"Archduke Mercury" Seamans. Read it and weep! It's SAD!<BR>
<BR>
SAD, SAD, SAD, SAD!<BR>
<BR>
Ahem... Let's begin, then, shall we?<BR>
<BR>
Imperial Rhapsody<BR>
<BR>
Is GT canon?<BR>
Or is it just heresy?<BR>
Is T5 comin'?<BR>
Will Marc make it reality?<BR>
I open my mail, distressed by the flames I see,<BR>
It's just a damn game, no cause for lunacy!<BR>
Y'know, it's easy come, easy go, roll 'em high or roll 'em low.<BR>
Whatever ruleset you're using doesn't really matter to me.<BR>
<BR>
Hey! They killed Strephon,<BR>
Those guys at DGP, but what now? TNE!?!<BR>
The Imperium had just begun,<BR>
And Dave Nilsen went and threw it all away!<BR>
Marc Miller... Ohhhhhh...<BR>
Did Strephon have to die?<BR>
Will T4 serve to drive away all this sorrow?<BR>
A new dawn! A new dawn! But quality really matters.<BR>
<BR>
Too Late! SJ has come!<BR>
Sends shivers down my spine, what will become of T5?<BR>
C'mon, Mr. Miller, you've got to go,<BR>
Gotta leave us all behind and write the rules.<BR>
Marc Miller... Ohhhhh...<BR>
I can't stand the "half-die",<BR>
Some days I wish Virus'd never destroyed it all!<BR>
<BR>
I see a set of pirate legos and a man,<BR>
Loren Wiseman, Loren Wiseman, will you work for Steve Jackson?<BR>
Veteran of Metagaming, now a Traveller licensee!<BR>
<BR>
[What will he do?] What will he do?<BR>
[What will he do?] What will he do?<BR>
What will he do? I dunno!<BR>
<BR>
I will go! I'm a vet'ran game designer, nobody loves me!<BR>
He's a game designer from a defunct company!<BR>
He deserves a job in the game industry!<BR>
Easy come, easy go! Will you let me go?<BR>
<BR>
We want CT! No, we will not let you go!<BR>
[Let him go!] We want MT! We will not let you go!<BR>
[Let him go!] We hate GURPS! We will not let you go!<BR>
[Let me go!] Will not let you go!<BR>
[Let me go!] Will not let you go!<BR>
[Let me go!] Ah<BR>
No, no, no, no, no, no, no<BR>
[Oh fellow travellers, fellow travellers] Fellow travellers, let me go!<BR>
<BR>
Evil Steve has a position set aside for me, for me, for me!<BR>
<BR>
So, you think you can rebel and wreck the 3I?<BR>
So, you think you can smash it with evil Virii?<BR>
Oh, baby, can't do this to Trav baby!<BR>
<BR>
Now Streph's alive!<BR>
Now Streph's alive in GURPS Trav!<BR>
<BR>
The rules don't really matter, anyone can see,<BR>
The rules don't really matter,<BR>
The rules don't really matter to me.<BR>
<BR>
Whatever ruleset you're using...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 04:38:38 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
"Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au> sez:<BR>
<BR>
>    I've been playing this game for too many years and NOW, the year 2000,<BR>
>someone points out that the Empress Marava is the same size as the Subbie.<BR>
>Like, they're two pages away from each other and I never noticed! I've been<BR>
>sitting here, shaking my head and counting grid squares. I still can't<BR>
>believe it.<BR>
>   So who came up with the proper stats for the new, improved, 400dt Far<BR>
>Trader?<BR>
<BR>
 Been there, done that. Actually Seeker did it first, when they did the 25mm <BR>
version of the Marava they provided a 400-ton set of MT stats for it, utterly <BR>
ignoring its history as a 200-ton ship...<BR>
 The last Traveller game I was in (as opposed to the current one: "Gilligan's <BR>
Planet") started in a Marava, or rather, in that deckplan. Being the gearhead <BR>
of the group, I began reworking the thing. The results are to be found on my <BR>
webpage:<BR>
<BR>
http://member.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html<BR>
<BR>
 Just follow the starship deckplans link and look for the "Empress Paula."<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 04:39:44 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> That's a 2.0, since my neighbor thumped on my wall (it _is_ after<BR>
> midnight here).<BR>
<BR>
Ach! I'm sorry, I don't want you to get in trouble with your neighbors!<BR>
<BR>
> When did you write this?<BR>
<BR>
According to Windows 98, I created the file on Sunday, January 02, 2000, at<BR>
11:41:13 PM, and I saved it on Monday, January 03, 2000 12:08:36 AM. I spent<BR>
about 10 minutes before that refreshing my memory with a MIDI of the song<BR>
and a copy of the lyrics, both of which  I downloaded from the web, which<BR>
was right after I saw the thread on Gilbert and Sullivan.<BR>
<BR>
So, the whole process took about an hour. After that, I worked on "Merchant<BR>
Prince (I Think It's Gonna Be About A Week)", a parody of Elton John's<BR>
"Rocket Man (I Think It's Gonna Be A Long, Long Time)". I'll upload that<BR>
when it's done. I have to sit down with a copy of it to work out the rhythm.<BR>
<BR>
Then, I suddenly got the inspiration to do "Imperial Rhapsody" after<BR>
imagining Emperor Strephon and Archduke Norris as Wayne and Garth,<BR>
respectively, in a cramped car. Yes, welcome to my nightmare, I have to live<BR>
with this defective brain.<BR>
<BR>
> And I thought that I did well by helping inspire "Eneri the Eighth, I<BR>
> Am"....<BR>
<BR>
Hey, it's all good! It's all good!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:47:27 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
> Use Aftermath - it's only slow torture :)<BR>
<BR>
You realize that Aftermath is actually simpler than the AD&D rules ?<BR>
<BR>
While people complain about the flow-chart in Aftermath, a similar<BR>
flow-chart for AD&D combat would be at least twice the size.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 20:51:31 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
> Been there, done that. Actually Seeker did it first, when they did the<BR>
25mm<BR>
>version of the Marava they provided a 400-ton set of MT stats for it,<BR>
utterly<BR>
>ignoring its history as a 200-ton ship...<BR>
> The last Traveller game I was in (as opposed to the current one:<BR>
"Gilligan's<BR>
>Planet") started in a Marava, or rather, in that deckplan. Being the<BR>
gearhead<BR>
>of the group, I began reworking the thing. The results are to be found on<BR>
my<BR>
>webpage:<BR>
>http://member.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html<BR>
> Just follow the starship deckplans link and look for the "Empress Paula."<BR>
>GC<BR>
<BR>
    I get the hull to come out to 460 tons.<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:55:41 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Jan 00, at 20:45, Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> OoooOOOOOoooo, another Highlander fan!  (the original movie that is!!!)<BR>
> Jesse<BR>
<BR>
The first one was very cool, no doubt about it. Pity about no 2 and 3 :(<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:56:48 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: JumpDrives<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 10:24:50 +1100<BR>
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
<BR>
>    Well, for a start, I'm proposing something different to canon. I don't<BR>
>know anyone who actually uses drop tanks in their campaigns, although I<BR>
>assume some people do. Are these drop tanks an Imperial Standard? Some sort<BR>
>of modular, click together array that starports lease out? Does a tug follow<BR>
>your ship to the jump point and recover the drop tank after use? Then why<BR>
>not use tankers like you said?<BR>
<BR>
Well, that is a problem many of us have with drop tanks.  In canon you have<BR>
few brief mentions of drop tanks and then it basically ignores them.  But<BR>
this is another "discussion".<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:52:47 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 21:09:24 -0900<BR>
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
>I don't like GT, as I am not fond of GURPS to begin with (I once was, But I<BR>
>grew up...), and I found GT had changed several bits. Like all marines<BR>
>having Battlesuit skill.<BR>
<BR>
This is coming form the presence of the Battlesuit skill in the<BR>
template?<BR>
<BR>
To clarify, that is not what the templates are telling you.  They<BR>
are giving Battlesuit to any player who wants to modify a partially<BR>
predesigned character.  That is not the same thing as saying that<BR>
all marines have battlesuits...<BR>
<BR>
[snip stuff that I disagree with but is mostly opinion...]<BR>
<BR>
>Yes, if traveller is to be more than SJG's salvation<BR>
<BR>
I wouldn't call Traveller SJG "salvation".  The company was<BR>
not in any danger of going out of business or in any dire<BR>
straights.  (Though the boost in sales is what they were<BR>
looking for with GT and surely quite appreciated...)<BR>
<BR>
OTOH....<BR>
<BR>
>and then forgotten<BR>
>when something better comes along or the road gets rough<BR>
<BR>
SJG didn't buy the liscence and put out all those supplements<BR>
(and specifically hire Loren) if they were just going to drop it.<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:58:34 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
> & I hate the way GURPS is<BR>
> thought to be the first multi-genre RPG system, when it really was<BR>
> Palladium's system.<BR>
<BR>
Wrong.<BR>
<BR>
Both Chaosium's system, and the Champions system, went multi-system before<BR>
Palladium's did.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:04:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
>     1. I know that FGU is trying to get in touch with Jesse<BR>
> DeGraff for some<BR>
> artwork, but I do not know if any emails have gotten to him.<BR>
<BR>
FGU effectively no longer exists.<BR>
<BR>
There is some old stock being sold by the guy who owns the copyright, and<BR>
that's it.<BR>
<BR>
Reportedly that guy has also repeatedly refused to sell the copyright on<BR>
Daredevils, Aftermath, & Bushido, either back to Bob & Paul, or to other<BR>
companies who were willing to republish it.<BR>
<BR>
Much like Mr. Sanger.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:59:18 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 21:09:24 -0900<BR>
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
>I don't like GT, as I am not fond of GURPS to begin with (I once was, But I<BR>
>grew up...), and I found GT had changed several bits. Like all marines<BR>
>having Battlesuit skill.<BR>
<BR>
This is coming form the presence of the Battlesuit skill in the<BR>
template?<BR>
<BR>
To clarify, that is not what the templates are telling you.  They<BR>
are giving Battlesuit to any player who wants to modify a partially<BR>
predesigned character.  That is not the same thing as saying that<BR>
all marines have battlesuits...<BR>
<BR>
[snip stuff that I disagree with but is mostly opinion...]<BR>
<BR>
>Yes, if traveller is to be more than SJG's salvation<BR>
<BR>
I wouldn't call Traveller SJG "salvation".  The company was<BR>
not in any danger of going out of business or in any dire<BR>
straights.  (Though the boost in sales is what they were<BR>
looking for with GT and surely quite appreciated...)<BR>
<BR>
OTOH....<BR>
<BR>
>and then forgotten<BR>
>when something better comes along or the road gets rough<BR>
<BR>
SJG didn't buy the liscence and put out all those supplements<BR>
(and specifically hire Loren) if they were just going to drop it.<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:59:29 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
You know, I'm beginning to think that _maybe_ Legate Legion doesn't<BR>
consider GURPS to be his favorite game?<BR>
<BR>
(Maybe if he posted some definative post outlining his feeling?  :-)<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:57:28 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: On the original question...  (was Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
[OK, a lot has been posted on this, but this is to answer the<BR>
original poster's questions, if it all doesn't get lost in the<BR>
traffic....]<BR>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:26:41 -0600<BR>
>From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
<BR>
>What are the plans for T5?<BR>
<BR>
It is said that they are working on it...<BR>
<BR>
>Is GURPS Traveller now considered THE<BR>
>canon?<BR>
<BR>
It is for GURPS Traveller...<BR>
<BR>
If you want to play that timeline, then those are the official events.  If<BR>
you don't want to play that timeline, then it doesn't apply anyway....<BR>
<BR>
>Do people even like GURPS Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
You have already seen that, like any successful game, it has some<BR>
who really don't like it.  For me, GURPS was the obvious choice<BR>
for running Traveller since before GURPS Traveller came out.<BR>
<BR>
>However, I'm wondering what others think of GURPS Traveller.  Is it or<BR>
>is it going to be the "official" traveller?  Do we need T5?<BR>
<BR>
If you really want mechanics that are closer to CT/MT, then you<BR>
might want to wait for T5.  Otherwise, I would think that might<BR>
as well just start using GT.<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:13:37 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: in jokes<BR>
<BR>
> >I want a Willie I in my universe just so that I can blow the<BR>
> >living fuck outof it.<BR>
><BR>
> You know, that could be rude if you took it out of context. <g><BR>
<BR>
There is a comedian over here who, among other things, normally uses a<BR>
wheelchair and has a speech impediment. Unfortunately I've fogotten his<BR>
name.<BR>
<BR>
Recently, one of his routines had his wheelchair on stage with him. He<BR>
called it Willy, because, well, he tried to call it "Wheelie", but he<BR>
whenever he said "Wheelie", everyone thought he said "Willy".<BR>
<BR>
The routine continues, with him talking about what a friend his Willy the<BR>
Wheelchair is.<BR>
<BR>
Near the end, he asks a female member of the audience if they would like to<BR>
sit on his Willy....<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:43:15 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
> > Palladium's first offering was Mechanoids. Their next was Palladium<BR>
> > Fantasy.<BR>
<BR>
> > Early 80's. The Mechanoid Invasion, 1981, format: Comic Book,<BR>
> cover price<BR>
> > US$3.75 Palladium Fantasy came out shortly after, using almost identical<BR>
> > rules.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, maybe they did beat Hero Games then.<BR>
<BR>
> > Hero System had multiple genres by 1985, when I got into it.<BR>
<BR>
Earlier than that. Espionage was released in 1983<BR>
<BR>
> > TSR had Boot Hill and AD&D on the same mechanics by 81, and IIRC, gamma<BR>
> > world.<BR>
><BR>
> I'm pretty sure that Gamma World actually didn't have the same<BR>
> mechanics as AD&D, but I haven't seen the oldest edition.<BR>
<BR>
Metamorphosis Alpha, on which Gamma World was based, while having different<BR>
character classes, was an almost exact replica of D&D. This was _before_<BR>
AD&D. Top Secret also has very similar mechanics to D&D<BR>
<BR>
Just thought of another one, Arduin !<BR>
<BR>
Had to be multi-genre, wizards and fighters together with technicians. They<BR>
were even the first to come up with special "monster" character classes,<BR>
such as the octarilla.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:47:06 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
> I have a 1st edition AD&D DM's Guide (1979 printing, the year of my birth)<BR>
<BR>
Now I feel old.<BR>
<BR>
I remember waiting and waiting for that to come out...<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 00:00:32 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
> Have you, by chance, seen "Billy Madison"?<BR>
> <BR>
> "I see you, Penguin!!"<BR>
<BR>
Have you seen "Pokemon" ?<BR>
<BR>
"Penguin, I choose you !"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 00:02:35 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
<BR>
> > OoooOOOOOoooo, another Highlander fan!  (the original movie that is!!!)<BR>
> > Jesse<BR>
><BR>
> The first one was very cool, no doubt about it. Pity about no 2 and 3 :(<BR>
<BR>
I got the DVD !<BR>
I Got the DVD !<BR>
Nah nah na nah na !<BR>
<BR>
It's got a whole track full of stills, and all the usual director voice<BR>
overs and stuff, plus seperate audio tracks.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 02:56:22 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 01:37:35 -0500<BR>
>>From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
><BR>
>>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
>>Kids large enough to run around with minimal supervision (say bright<BR>
>>3-year olds on up) will probably be trained to *always* have with them<BR>
>>a small pack/satchel that contains a children's rescue ball. Smaller,<BR>
>>and again probably somewhat tougher (partly to withstand handling by<BR>
>>kids!).<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
>>I wonder. Considering how long the Traveller societies have been in<BR>
>>space, this kind of caution may be considered akin to an American<BR>
>>suburbanite of the 1990's refusing to leave his home without survival<BR>
>>rations, a firearm and a first aid kit. Reasonable behaviour for a person<BR>
>>on a frontier, and some people do this, but the average person doesn't.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Aboard ships of a mature space-faring society, how common are life<BR>
>>support failures? Hull breaches? For a surface to surface vessel<BR>
>>(like a type-A Free Trader) that makes bi-weekly landings, spacewalks<BR>
>>may even be something that happen every couple of years or so, unless<BR>
>>something very unusual happens.<BR>
><BR>
> Yeah.  The tendency seems to be to see space travel as being<BR>
> equivalent of taking a space shuttle or other ship designed<BR>
> at relatively low tech level.  Space Travel, as presented in<BR>
> Traveller, would be more like fly a cessna air craft.  You<BR>
> don't make everyone wear a parachute (not even kids).<BR>
<BR>
Mostly because parachutes aren't much help in a small plane. If<BR>
anything goes wrong, you are likely better off riding it down.<BR>
<BR>
But consider the fact that life jackets are required on small craft in<BR>
many areas.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1644<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1645</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1645<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
RE: 3I Sports<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Query re: T5 rules<BR>
Loren, SJG, and 'the recent unplesantness'<BR>
Re: Review: The Naked God by Peter F Hamilton<BR>
Re:  Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: traveller poll!<BR>
re: Gunnery<BR>
I have an idea...<BR>
Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
GG Moons<BR>
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - CanCon 2000 ?<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: GURPS: trav ships and their power requirements<BR>
Re: Galaxy Quest! <BR>
Re: Box sets (was: GURPS vs. T5?)<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 03:00:36 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>> Ok, now your assignment is to make it to 2100.... :-)<BR>
><BR>
> Don't you mean 20100? :)<BR>
<BR>
I didn't say it was going to be his *last* assignment, now did I?<BR>
<BR>
And they do say the first hundred years are the hardest...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 00:05:50 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: 3I Sports<BR>
<BR>
> > > >Damn, now you've got me free associating old UK TV Shows now, anyone<BR>
> > > >remember "Heart of Darkness"  ? And the "sequel" about BSE, <BR>
> which came out<BR>
> > > >before the big BSE scare ?<BR>
> > > Do you mean 'Edge of Darkness', the BBC TV series about illicit<BR>
> > > plutonium production by a formerly state owned nuclear fuel company<BR>
> > > bought by US venture capital?<BR>
<BR>
Didn't see original post, Dom, but yeah, I meant "Edge of Darkness"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 03:03:25 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
Sethkimmel@aol.comm wrote<BR>
<BR>
> jimpeta@primus.com.au writes:<BR>
> <<  Or the Australian one:<BR>
>      "Shut up ya b*stard!" Whack! Whack! (sound of five cell Mag-Lite hitting<BR>
>  kidneys)<BR>
<BR>
> Happens in the states too. Just make sure no one is videotaping it...:-)<BR>
<BR>
But there is an easy solution to this problem. [As the<BR>
Capitol Steps facetiously reported that Darryl Gates<BR>
proposed.]<BR>
<BR>
A seven day waiting period, with background checks, before <BR>
anyone can buy a video camera.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 03:04:09 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
 "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Family (note the capital F) is how queer/les/bi/gay/trans people refer<BR>
> to themselves, especially in mixed company.  It doesn't mean anything about<BR>
> anyone else not being able to be family with anyone else, it's just a code<BR>
> phrase that people have retained because it's still useful.  =)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri, I am afraid that you do not understand the true meaning <BR>
of the word Family. Family refers to certain entirely<BR>
legitimate and honest businessmen, often of Italian <BR>
extraction, who are constantly harassed in their legitimate<BR>
business activities by the intrusive government. Your<BR>
use of the word Family to refer to various non straight<BR>
persons is an improper use of the term. Now don't get me<BR>
wrong some of my own business associates in my 100% legal<BR>
business enterprises, including my own Consigl..., er <BR>
business advisor, Brucie Sollozzo, are fags but that does not <BR>
entitle them to claim to be Family unless they work for<BR>
a Family business.<BR>
<BR>
I have spoken to my good friend and associate, Don<BR>
"Gentleman Joe" Gionelli and he assures me that you are<BR>
not in any way affiliated with his, entirely legitimate<BR>
and 100% legal, Bay area business operations. As such I<BR>
am going to have to ask that you refrain from defining <BR>
the word Family in the manner you have. I find it very<BR>
disrespect full. If you persist is being disrespectfull to<BR>
me and my Family I am going to have to send some of my<BR>
boys over to talk to you about this....<BR>
<BR>
Don Peter - who Made his status as a Family businessman<BR>
the old fashioned way, and who does not appreciate the<BR>
disrespect for the term all these queers are showing<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Let me note, for any one who is humor impaired, this is <BR>
all a joke intended to point out that the word Family<BR>
(or family) can have more than one meaning. Neither my<BR>
depiction of 100% legitimate businessmen, often of Italian<BR>
extraction, nor my references to non heterosexual<BR>
persons, including Don Peter's questionable use of the<BR>
term 'fags' are intended to offend any one. Nor is Don<BR>
Peter's comment about sending over some of the boys from <BR>
100% legitimate businesses to talk to Kiri to be <BR>
interpreted as implying, in any way, that Kiri might be<BR>
in any danger. I am Family, but not Family, myself - Peter]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:23:34 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
At 22:22 -0500 2/1/00, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:<BR>
> >From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
> >Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
>...<BR>
> ></FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=8><SMALL><SMALL><SMALL><BR>
> >Please sir, we're still here....<BR>
>...<BR>
><BR>
> "Oh, damn, not another hobbit infestation in the hold; check with the<BR>
>chief purser to see if the contents can withstand vacuum..."<BR>
<BR>
<Splort><BR>
Take that as a keyboard hit, for almost the first time. I thought <BR>
'Oliver Twist' but then you do this. Black coffee does not snort well.<BR>
<BR>
>  Hmm, G:T: AGTfOS?<BR>
<BR>
????<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:25:32 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
<BR>
At 22:22 -0500 2/1/00, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:<BR>
> >Err, look at the Task system in the Khiidkar Incident or SpaceDogs!<BR>
> >or on the website. You may notice that the T4.1/T5 tasks are already<BR>
> >there. assuming that Marc doesn't abandon all the good work he's <BR>
>done so far.<BR>
><BR>
>  FWIW, I assume that the +D-D mechanism is still planned for T5; do you<BR>
>know if there's going to be any provision for providing a universal and<BR>
>simple alternative to it, just so that it doesn't risk becoming the "half-<BR>
>die for task rolls" of T5?<BR>
<BR>
T4.1/T5's draft had half dice. ISTR that the +D-D mechanism was for <BR>
effect rolls (for example, damage).<BR>
<BR>
Whether this has changed since I'm not sure.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 01:22:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Loren, SJG, and 'the recent unplesantness'<BR>
<BR>
From:           	GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Date sent:      	Sun, 2 Jan 2000 21:28:23 EST<BR>
<BR>
> Imperium games felt they could do without me (I asked -- they declined).<BR>
<BR>
More fool them (and as it turned out, I'd say they could have done <BR>
with you).<BR>
<BR>
> I don't object to your hating GURPS. I don't object to your hating GT. I <BR>
> don't even object to you thinking whatever you think of me. I just wish you <BR>
> would stop saying you want me on fire or drained of blood. Sorry, but I'm a <BR>
> little funny that way . . .<BR>
<BR>
I don't usually attempt to speak for anyone other than myself and I <BR>
apologise right now to everyone for doing so. However, I think its a <BR>
fairly safe bet that everyone will agree that the statements <BR>
concerned come from a minority of one. And I think that to a <BR>
sophont, everyone here would agree that they were totally uncalled <BR>
for and far beyond what could ever remotely be regarded as <BR>
acceptable. I for one am deeply embarrassed that they appeared <BR>
here.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Andrew etc<BR>
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:31:57 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Review: The Naked God by Peter F Hamilton<BR>
<BR>
>>A word of note. If you are a UK reader, visit Peter F. Hamilton's official<BR>
>>website to read a small section that was cut from your versions. Its in<BR>
the<BR>
>>US version and he wanted everyone to get to read it.<BR>
><BR>
>Have you the URL?<BR>
><BR>
UK readers don't need it - it was in the Neutronium Alchemist (UK edition).<BR>
It was missed out of the Neut. Alch. (US edition) for some reason and put in<BR>
Naged God (US edition) instead.  You will only miss it if you buy NA (US<BR>
edition) and then NG (UK edition).<BR>
<BR>
Mark.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 03:45:25 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re:  Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
The Executioners Song, as performed by his Imperial<BR>
Majesty Lucan I<BR>
<BR>
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found, <BR>
I've got a little list--I've got a little list (1)<BR>
Of regicidal murderers (2) who might well be underground,<BR>
And who never would be missed--who never would be missed! (3)<BR>
There's the pestilential nuisances who request for Moot validation-- <BR>
All people who have flabby hands and make a fratricidal insinuation (4)<BR>
All children who are up in dates, and floor you with 'em flat--<BR>
All persons who in shaking hands, shake hands with you like that--<BR>
<BR>
[Stage Directions - The Emperor pantomimes a Hiver shaking hands](5)<BR>
<BR>
And all third persons who on spoiling tte--ttes insist--(6)<BR>
They'd none of 'em be missed--they'd none of 'em be missed!<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS<BR>
He's got 'em on the list--he's got 'em on the list;<BR>
And they'll none of 'em be missed--they'll none of 'em be miss'd! <BR>
<BR>
There's the Vilani Shadow Emperor (7) , and the others of his race,<BR>
And the wind up Emperor (8) --I've got him on the list!<BR>
And the K'Kree who eat vegetables and puff them in your face,<BR>
They never would be miss'd--they never would be miss'd!<BR>
Then the idiot who praises, with enthusiastic tone,<BR>
All centuries but this, and every Emperor but his own;<BR>
And the lady from the provinces, who dresses like a guy, (9)<BR>
And who "doesn't think she dances, but would rather like to try";<BR>
And that singular anomaly, the Delphian economist (10)--<BR>
I don't think she'd be missed--I'm sure she'd not he missed!<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS<BR>
He's got her on the list--he's got her on the list;<BR>
And he don't think she'll be missed--he's sure she won't be miss'd! <BR>
<BR>
And that Antarian Vargr nuisance (11), who just now is rather rife,<BR>
The Judicial humorist--I've got him on the list!<BR>
All funny fellows, comic men, and clowns of private life--<BR>
They'd none of 'em be missed--they'd none of 'em be missed.<BR>
And apologetic statesmen of a compromising kind,<BR>
Such as--What d'ye call him--Thing'em-bob, and likewise--Never-mind,<BR>
And 'St--'st--'st--(12) and What's-his-name, and also You-know-who--<BR>
The task of filling up the blanks I'd rather leave to you.<BR>
But it really doesn't matter whom you put upon the list,<BR>
For they'd none of 'em be missed--they'd none of 'em be missed!<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS<BR>
He's got her on the list--he's got her on the list;<BR>
And he don't think she'll be missed--he's sure she won't be miss'd! <BR>
        <BR>
<BR>
          Footnotes: <BR>
<BR>
1. The little list has 4,614,892,614,807 names on it, including the entire<BR>
populations of some sectors. <BR>
2. Archduke Dulinor. <BR>
3. Not only would none of the traitors be missed, but if the Aslan<BR>
Ambassador was standing next to them he might get shot as well. <BR>
4. Sub lieutenant Trace Windhook Imperial Navy, the only other living<BR>
witness to what happened in the Princes' apartments. <BR>
5. At this point Lucan reveals his suspicions that the Hiver were behind<BR>
the Rebellion. <BR>
6. Lt. Windhook again. <BR>
7. Archduke Ishuugi, Archduke of Vland who was chosen by the Vilani ruling<BR>
council, the Igsiirdi, to be the Ishimkarun, or Shadow Emperor. <BR>
8. Lucan is referring to "Strephon" whom Lucan claims is merely a robotic<BR>
double of the former Emperor. <BR>
 9. Here Lucan appears to referring to the rumors in high Imperial Society<BR>
that Norris, Archduke of Deneb is actually a female to male cross<BR>
dresser... <BR>
10. Lucan refers to Duchess Margaret. <BR>
11. Lucan is referring to Archduke Bzrk of Antares, who declared his domain<BR>
independent and allied with the Julian Protectorate. <BR>
12. Lucan refers to "Strephon" once again.<BR>
<BR>
With apologies to Gilbert & Sullivan<BR>
<BR>
A repost of a little adaptation of a little Rebellion era<BR>
Gilbert & Sullivan popular in the Daibei region during the<BR>
rebellion. [I never got a chance to run the Arrival Vengeance<BR>
adventure but I was always planning on having this performance<BR>
be part of the crew's visit to Daibei. I adapted & posted this <BR>
to the TML about two years ago, IIRC.]<BR>
<BR>
As hosted by Doug Barry at his excellent Traveller humor site <BR>
[insert shameless plug here] The Silly Era at	<BR>
<BR>
ttp://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/travfilk.html<BR>
<BR>
thank you Doug. I see that Andrew Moffatt-Vallance has <BR>
already recommended it but this gave me a chance to<BR>
inflict it on all of you once again & contaminate the<BR>
minds of those not on the list then.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 07:52:25 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
Howdy!<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I decided that living to see the Year 2000 was a good goal.<BR>
> <BR>
> As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
> -- <BR>
> <BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
> <BR>
Congratulations! <BR>
<BR>
yours,<BR>
Michael<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 08:20:39 -0500<BR>
From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: traveller poll!<BR>
<BR>
At 08:33 AM 12/15/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>I was quite surprised to see T4 had taken a sudden dramatic lead<BR>
>over Classic Traveller in the <http://members.aol.com/traveller poll><BR>
<BR>
I am happy to say that things have been restored to their proper order,<BR>
CT has 63% of the 194 votes. I'm surprised to find it like this though:<BR>
<BR>
CT:  63%<BR>
TNE: 53%<BR>
MT:  37%<BR>
GT:  33%<BR>
T4:   6%<BR>
<BR>
TNE is the second most popular and T4 has almost no supporters? I thought<BR>
from the list that TNE was like leprosy, and I should really pick up the<BR>
T4 books if I wanted to gearhead around a little bit.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, I also love reading the tidbits about T5. Milieu:200 sounds like<BR>
an interesting time, but I would love to play "First Contact", the solar<BR>
system before the jump drive. I've been screwing with my own personal<BR>
universe with a balkanized home world with tech level 8 (CT - no jump yet)<BR>
system boats flying out to protect one countries interests in the asteroid<BR>
belt - and then the first country to develop jump. Before the espionage<BR>
machines start working the other countries are shocked to find boats they<BR>
left say, at Mars, beating them to Uranus.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Tardy robber.. Order By Brat.. Tardy Bob ERR.. Retry bad Rob.. Retro by bard<BR>
Robert Brady                                        robb at datatone dot com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 09:02:12 -0500 <BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: re: Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
Mostly because parachutes aren't much help in a small plane. If <BR>
anything goes wrong, you are likely better off riding it down. <BR>
<BR>
But consider the fact that life jackets are required on small craft in <BR>
many areas. <BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
And many people who pilot small craft for a living don't wear them<BR>
unless the weather makes them nervous. And the vast majority of people<BR>
who board large ships may get told or shown how to use a life jacket,<BR>
but will only lay a hand on one if the ship is in great danger.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps a kid on a Traveller starship will know where pressure shelters,<BR>
rescue balls and emergency equipment are, and will know *exactly*<BR>
where to go and what to do when the little lights in the corridors turn <BR>
blue, but won't carry anything with her but her Vraugh Gnauff fashion-fur <BR>
vargr doll.<BR>
<BR>
And her deck of Pokemon cards... ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 14:08:36 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: I have an idea...<BR>
<BR>
iSteve writes:<BR>
<BR>
Hi folks, I've been reading some of the recent posts/flames/death <BR>
threats/responses and I have an idea.<BR>
<BR>
For quite a few years longer than I care to remember I've been playing a <BR>
Science Fiction role-playing game called Traveller.  Remember it?  Oh you <BR>
must!  Little black books, then bigger books with more colourful artwork.  <BR>
Ringing a bell now?<BR>
<BR>
See the idea I've had (and I know it sounds a bit radical, so bear with me) <BR>
is that, seeing as though we're all on the Traveller Mailing List.....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
.....wait for it.....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
.....WE TALK ABOUT TRAVELLER!!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Just a thought,<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
"One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor...."<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 14:15:29 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
<BR>
>The horror continues!<BR>
<BR>
...and there's me with my new posh keyboard I got for Christmas, which is <BR>
now FULL of my best malt scotch!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Thanks man, another goody.<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
"One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor...."<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:18:53 -0500<BR>
From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com><BR>
Subject: GG Moons<BR>
<BR>
We had finished the Gas Giant moon discussion a while ago, but I am still<BR>
missing something about eclipses. This is because I am a<BR>
Xeno-Social-Scientist, not an astronomer, but I am sure this has great<BR>
effect on species that evolve in this common habitable gas giant moon<BR>
scenario.<BR>
<BR>
I calculate that this "day" there will not be a total eclipse of the sun<BR>
from my moon, because, for whatever reason the moon will not enter the<BR>
umbra of the gas giant. [Cone which has its largest end at the diameter<BR>
of the sun, is the size of the gas giant at the time it intersects the<BR>
sphere of the gas giant, and ends in space somewhere you can figure out<BR>
mathematically from there.] And basically I understand that any part of<BR>
the umbra that does touch the moon will cause a partial eclipse (I think).<BR>
<BR>
Since I can only find examples of Earth/Moon eclipses, not generic eclipses,<BR>
I can only visualize what the penumbra is from these pictures. It appears to<BR>
be a cone which begins as the size of the gas giant and grows outward from<BR>
there. It also appears to get brighter (have less effect) the farther from<BR>
the gas giant it gets.<BR>
<BR>
Can anyone tell me: What effect does being in the penumbra of the Moon have<BR>
on us? Am I correct in thinking that the shadow grows less the farther you<BR>
are from the gas giant, AND also the farther you are from the umbra? How<BR>
would I calculate the dimming effect of this shadow? Finally, at what rate<BR>
does the penumbra expand. What is the relationship between the expansion<BR>
the penumbra and the dissipation of the shadow?<BR>
<BR>
What I really want to know though is would it be highly significant to<BR>
a moon in the habitable zone, like the birds think it's night time, some<BR>
predators take advantage of this time to catch tasty day snacks using<BR>
nocturnal hunting skills, the native sapient beings are in awe seeing the<BR>
glory of the gas giant in the sky (how different from a full eclipse).<BR>
<BR>
I can do the math if you just point this nonsense out to me...<BR>
- --<BR>
Tardy robber.. Order By Brat.. Tardy Bob ERR.. Retry bad Rob.. Retro by bard<BR>
Robert Brady                                        robb at datatone dot com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 01:17:31 +1100<BR>
From: "David Healey" <David.Healey@dcb.defence.gov.au><BR>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - CanCon 2000 ?<BR>
<BR>
Gentlesophonts,<BR>
<BR>
To the Orstralyun TMLer's : Is there a Can Con this year, and if so, when ?  Anyone running any Traveller ?<BR>
<BR>
David Healey<BR>
DCB-M  MVS Operations<BR>
<BR>
600 Years ago, they KNEW the world was flat<BR>
60 Years ago, they KNEW you couldn't go faster than sound<BR>
6 Minutes ago, you KNEW your code was indestructable ......<BR>
<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 10:25:55 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
At 12:09 PM 12/31/99 EST, you wrote:<BR>
>Happy new year to all on the TML!!!<BR>
><BR>
> Has anybody heard any Y2K problems yet, or can I start laughing at the <BR>
>doomsayers? :-)<BR>
><BR>
>Seth<BR>
><BR>
        Bust a gut at your liesure....<BR>
<BR>
        Only one year to go!<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	"Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
			       ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Cyberpunk:  	"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"<BR>
	Traveller:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"<BR>
	AD&D:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 10:26:05 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS: trav ships and their power requirements<BR>
<BR>
At 03:04 AM 1/1/00 -0000, you wrote:<BR>
>I guess I just like the idea of juggling power around in a crisis. "All<BR>
>power to drives - give me all you've got..." Besides, what else are bridge<BR>
>engineers for?<BR>
><BR>
>Nick<BR>
><BR>
        Crew unit kills....<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 10:26:09 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Galaxy Quest! <BR>
<BR>
At 01:00 PM 1/1/00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>> Another player was a physics major. He and I started discussing how to<BR>
>> build a breeder reactor (using orcs and condemned criminals to work in<BR>
>> the high radiation areas). And how to extract the plutonium, and<BR>
>> construct a bomb. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> The GM decided it was time to end the campaign. :-)<BR>
><BR>
>We tried pulling something like that off once.  GM declared that we as<BR>
*players* might know that stuff, but not as *characters*.  And he *also*<BR>
decreed that since it *wasn't* Earth, that things didn't *quite* work the<BR>
way we remembered them *on* Earth.<BR>
><BR>
>Keven<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
        Hi, Keven!<BR>
        That's how I do it...  "Make an INT check and then a WIS check...<BR>
Ok, you can concieve the idea of elements this month...  What?  It's<BR>
obvious?  So is the world being flat and the world being at the center of<BR>
the Universe..."<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 10:26:14 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Box sets (was: GURPS vs. T5?)<BR>
<BR>
At 09:12 PM 1/2/00 -0000, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>Any game designers/publishers out there please hear my  plea:  No<BR>
>more one-book games, bring back the boxed set.<BR>
><BR>
>Regards PLST<BR>
><BR>
        A friend of mine owns XIDCreative (the designers of _Providence_).<BR>
He was brutally honest about it...  the money is in the sourcebooks.  Boxed<BR>
sets are no longer required in a world has has experienced gamers who can<BR>
teach younger gamers, and they steal from the bottom line.<BR>
<BR>
        The trick, particularly for XIDCreative (whom I am not an affliate<BR>
or representative, BTW), as I understand it, was creating a first book that<BR>
had the rules engine in it and enough material to play in the milieu as a<BR>
stand-alone but left enough space that the follow-on sourcebooks were<BR>
"gotta-get-'ums"<BR>
<BR>
        Its a hard market to bring a new product into, and the last thing<BR>
one would want to do is price themselves out of the market with a boxed set<BR>
that sells $15 more than somebody elses single sourcebook.  That tween, teen<BR>
or FOG only has so much money in thier pocket.<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	"Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
			       ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Cyberpunk:  	"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"<BR>
	Traveller:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"<BR>
	AD&D:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 10:26:11 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
At 01:25 PM 1/1/00, you wrote:<BR>
>Just wanted to share with my net-friends on the TML.<BR>
><BR>
>When I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's in August of 1995, I was advised to<BR>
>pick to goals.  One was a short term goal, to get through the initial<BR>
>surguries and chemotherapy.<BR>
><BR>
>For that, I chose the release of the Regency Sourcebook.<BR>
><BR>
>The second goal was a long term survival goal, something a few years down<BR>
>the line to look forward to.<BR>
><BR>
>I decided that living to see the Year 2000 was a good goal.<BR>
><BR>
>As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
><BR>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
        Hit the damn thing again, Doug, you're still standing...  Best of<BR>
fame, fortune and future to you.<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 14:39:43 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
>Has anybody heard any Y2K problems yet, or can I start laughing at >the <BR>
>doomsayers? :-)<BR>
<BR>
Actually the in-house accounting software our company uses seems to be less <BR>
f***ed up than it was before Y2K - and they say Christmas wishes never come <BR>
true....<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
"One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor...."<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1645<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1646<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: New Group! xboat@egroups.com<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: Harn<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
RE: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
Re: why I support separation...<BR>
Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
Turbolifts<BR>
Re: Turbolifts<BR>
Vs: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
OT: A Connecticutt Leonard in a D&D Court (was re: Galaxy Quest)<BR>
CT MT TNE T4 GT T5<BR>
Re: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: New Group! xboat@egroups.com (moderated)<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 07:46:45 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: New Group! xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
>Well, as the one who posted the original GURPS vs. T5 message, I want to<BR>
>thank those who had something constructive to say.  Overall, however, I<BR>
>was completely disappointed with the childish flame war. <snip><BR>
><BR>
>So with that in mind, I'd like to announce a new list:<BR>
><BR>
>xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
Are you sure this is a new list? I went to the egroups page and looked<BR>
up "xboat". Eleven, count'em, eleven posts (including two by Legate Legion,<BR>
whose recent activities prompted you to form the new group in the first place)<BR>
- -- and all the posts are from the second half of 1998.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:34:02 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
At 22:22 -0500 2/1/00, "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
>My apologies. I didn't mean to overlook the wonderful BITS products (if they<BR>
>were available at my FLGS I'd have them all by now). And, yes, it would<BR>
>appear that you go out of your way to support Traveller of all flavors.<BR>
><BR>
>Even so, how were your sales before G:T, though, and how are they now?<BR>
<BR>
GT helped in that it got us a US distributor (SJG). But the market <BR>
was there, it was just hard to get into it because of issues with <BR>
distribution.<BR>
<BR>
And Warehouse 23 is a very useful distribution route. I'm not sure <BR>
how much is GT and how much is getting distribution.<BR>
<BR>
The first 7 books are more generic, in that the GT conversion rules <BR>
make them usable with GURPS. The adventures were written with GURPS <BR>
in mind. We write using T4.1 as a basis and provide full GT info. <BR>
Porting back to CT/MT is easy, TNE a little more difficult. That's <BR>
why we put the task system up.<BR>
<BR>
We also put up submissions guidelines recently if people fancy <BR>
producing adventures.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:42:02 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Harn<BR>
<BR>
At 23:19 -0500 2/1/00, "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
>My favorite settings were always Renaissance or Victorian, if I couldn't be<BR>
>in the Far Future.<BR>
<BR>
AEG's '7th Sea' is worth a look if you like Renaissance style games. <BR>
Nice system, well presented (like Legend of the 5 Rings it's one of <BR>
the best presented games out) and lots of plot hooks in the <BR>
background. However, a little overpriced at 20 GBP $30USD. If you <BR>
have LoT5R or some experience you could get away with just the <BR>
Player's Book.<BR>
<BR>
>And I LOVED Call of Cthulhu.<BR>
<BR>
I did, but I over played it. Delta Green and Nocturnum (both 90's <BR>
stuff) got me back into it recently though.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:45:09 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
At 0:06 -0500 3/1/00, Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote:<BR>
>OTOH, "the chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one -<BR>
>but still they come!"<BR>
<BR>
'Million to one chances happen 9 out of 10 times' - Terry Pratchett.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:49:24 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
<BR>
At 0:06 -0500 3/1/00, Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net> wrote:<BR>
>OoooOOOOOoooo, another Highlander fan!  (the original movie that is!!!)<BR>
>Jesse<BR>
<BR>
The original film, and not the sequels. The series isn't bad either.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:56:39 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: why I support separation...<BR>
<BR>
At 0:53 -0500 3/1/00, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:<BR>
>  I've been on a number of the hived-off Trav lists of the last year, and<BR>
>only Trav-Culture (was Trav-Languages in a previous epoch) has survived<BR>
>in any meaningful sense.<BR>
<BR>
SCTA isn't doing too badly as a separate entity. ISBA (3 lists is <BR>
very slow), HIWG-Writers is almost dead on post volume.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 09:00:02 -0600 ()<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
<BR>
>>IMO it's not really, even including Rifts. From what I've seen Rifts<BR>
>>isn't multi genre,<BR>
<BR>
Rifts is a postmodern supers game.<BR>
<BR>
If the Palladium RPG is a multigenre system, then *any* system is<BR>
potentially a multigenre system. All Palladium did to make their system<BR>
"multigenre" was bolt on fire combat rules to their D&D-inspired (cloned)<BR>
core fantasy rules.<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:07:33 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
<BR>
At 5:58 -0500 3/1/00, "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
>That's bound to make anyone loopy. The following tune is to be sung to the<BR>
>lyrics of "Bohemian Rhapsody". The lyrics have been adapted by Chris<BR>
>"Archduke Mercury" Seamans. Read it and weep! It's SAD!<BR>
<BR>
ROFLMAO!<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:18:51 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Turbolifts<BR>
<BR>
I've been working on deckplans for a 5kdtn fleet fire support ship,<BR>
and having some fun doing it. The design calls for decks perpindicular<BR>
to thrust, and a general shape to the hull kind of like the Battlestar<BR>
Galactica - a large central hull, with long pods on either side. In layout, <BR>
the ship ends up being like one big tower flanked by two little towers, with<BR>
only a couple points of access between them on the middle decks.<BR>
<BR>
Using standard lifts and passageways, people working in the "little<BR>
towers" take a long time to get to the rest of the ship, and vice versa.<BR>
Go to the lift station, ride it down eight or nine decks, walk <BR>
halfway across the ship, get on *another* lift shaft...and never mind<BR>
transferring munitions between the missile bay magazines near the <BR>
"tops" of the "little towers".<BR>
<BR>
So I decided to try out lifts that acted like the turbolifts in Star Trek.<BR>
They go up, they go down, they go sideways. They have little side<BR>
passageways in the lift shafts so cars can pass each other. I still<BR>
only have one lift access for each of the small "little tower" levels,<BR>
but now hopping on the lift can take you to just about any lift access <BR>
on the entire ship in one ride. <BR>
<BR>
Since the ship being designed is of pretty good size, and made up<BR>
of more than 50% fuel tanks and armor, it's pretty easy to run<BR>
lift shafts that cut across entire decks - as every third "deck" or so<BR>
is mostly fuel, the shafts can be run so they are above or below<BR>
necessary corridors. I need to recheck the initial deckplans, but it<BR>
doesn't seem to use up too much space for a system like this.<BR>
<BR>
Now, I haven't seen such a system on any other Traveller starship, <BR>
and I don't recall it ever being specified whether Traveller lift shaft<BR>
technology makes this possible or not. Is this too "Trekkish" for<BR>
Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:34:29 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Turbolifts<BR>
<BR>
Walt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>So I decided to try out lifts that acted like the turbolifts in Star >Trek.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>Is this too "Trekkish" for Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
I wouldn't have thought so - the tech is there in Traveller, each lift car <BR>
being in effect a small grav car operating in an enclosed space (i.e. the <BR>
shafts).  If you wanted to get really over the top the cars could have their <BR>
own 'Striker/FF&S' stats.   *grin*<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
"One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor...."<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:12:56 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Vs: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 11:27 AM<BR>
Subject: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I'm not really easily amused, and despite too often drinking and reading TML at the same time I've yet kill my keyboard, but...<BR>
<BR>
this one was _too_ hilarious! It was so funny I laughed so hard it brought tears to my eyes. <BR>
<BR>
Amazing<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:45:49 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: OT: A Connecticutt Leonard in a D&D Court (was re: Galaxy Quest)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
But once you make some progress using laws and controlled experiments<BR>
you'll again be in a position where if you can convince the locals that<BR>
you aren't a threat, you may be able to help each other.<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
That may be the biggest obstacle, of course...especially if a couple<BR>
of the "locals" are gods (or god-analogs) with a vested interest in<BR>
the status quo. The world might have gods of wisdom, smithing, fire and <BR>
such that will object to you being a source of new innovations, instead of<BR>
them.<BR>
<BR>
Leonard again:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
For example, in that campaign, I started by building miner's lanterns<BR>
that wouldn't ignite gas pockets (it's actually quite easy IF YOU KNOW<BR>
THE TRICK).<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
As the miners shrug and show you the "glowstones" (naturally<BR>
occurring rocks that glow like candlelight when taken into darkness) <BR>
that they can already get. As far as you can tell, (without a decade of<BR>
work with a particle accelerator,) the glowstones glow because Lumina the <BR>
Sun Goddess said so. As for suffocating from dangerous gas pockets,<BR>
that's why they bring little sugar cakes into the mines with them - to bribe <BR>
the Knockers with, so the little mountain sprites will warn them of such <BR>
things.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and these Knockers...they have a temper. If they think your<BR>
mining lamps are meant to make their warnings unneccessary, or even<BR>
if they simply don't "feel right", they'll peg a rock through 'em. Or drop<BR>
a *big* rock *on 'em*.<BR>
<BR>
Leonard again:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
So, by being a "good neighbor", I avoided a lot of the hassles, and was<BR>
able to get into the guilds and get help when I wasn't sure how to<BR>
handle something. <BR>
<BR>
That's the best way to handle introducing new stuff be it in a medieval<BR>
village, or on a trading mission to a lower TL planet.<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
I definitely agree that such practices are a great idea. If the world you've<BR>
been dropped into has rigid social classes, then any new ideas you're<BR>
introducing (including technology) will be viewed with lots of suspicion<BR>
by those who are currently profiting by the status quo. Making the<BR>
transition from mysterious outsider to trusted insider will be, IMO, a<BR>
more dangerous project than your first development of gunpowder.<BR>
<BR>
Remember Twain's _Connecticutt Yankee in King Arthur's Court_?<BR>
Sir Boss' GM was nice enough to hand him a solar eclipse when<BR>
he needed one....<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:08:03 EST<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: CT MT TNE T4 GT T5<BR>
<BR>
There is a poll at the Traveller site asking which system you prefer. It was <BR>
reset Dec 12 and only allows one vote per person. <BR>
<BR>
http://members.aol.com/Traveller/T000-00.html<BR>
<BR>
(results as of 1/1/00: CT 67, MT 37, TNE 55, T4 6, GT 33. T5 not yet <BR>
available as an option).<BR>
<BR>
There is a similar poll asking which milieu you prefer at<BR>
<BR>
http://members.aol.com/Traveller/T010.html<BR>
<BR>
(results as of 1/1/00: The Golden Age: 33, Solomani Sphere: 21, The Far Far <BR>
Future: 20, total responses 190).<BR>
<BR>
Marc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:11:58 EST<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/3/00 6:14:11 AM Central Standard Time, <BR>
dom@cybergoths.u-net.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< <BR>
 T4.1/T5's draft had half dice. ISTR that the +D-D mechanism was for <BR>
 effect rolls (for example, damage).<BR>
 <BR>
 Whether this has changed since I'm not sure.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
T5 is in draft form. It makes extentive use of +D-D to randomize outcomes <BR>
(like damage), and thus breaking damage out of a relatively narrow range. It <BR>
makes it possible (though not likely) that 5D hits could actually do nothing <BR>
(or at the other end, do 5x6+5).<BR>
<BR>
But +D-D isn't supposed to have an overwhelming effect.<BR>
<BR>
Marc Miller<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:39:27 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
At 03:21 PM 1/2/00 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
>Actually, some of us do support the idea of separate GT an CT/MT lists.<BR>
>Like myself.<BR>
><BR>
>William F. Hostman  <BR>
<BR>
        Hi, William!<BR>
<BR>
        I keep seeing this go by, so I decided to do something about it....<BR>
<BR>
        O/ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _<BR>
        O\<BR>
<BR>
        The _Classic Traveller Mailing List's_ purpose is to allow the best <BR>
        possile lines of communication within the Community of <BR>
        Classic TRAVELLER/ LLB players.  It was created in response to a <BR>
        percieved need amongst CT/LBB players who wished to focus <BR>
        discussions on these rules and the millieu.<BR>
<BR>
        Any adventure material, images, designs and concepts, but not solely <BR>
        limited to these, are the property of its creators unless specifically <BR>
        released to the Public Domain.  All material carried on this list is <BR>
        copyright of its sender, c1999 - c2000.<BR>
<BR>
        O/ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _<BR>
        O\<BR>
<BR>
        To subscribe send a message to "petidomo@atlantic-online.ns.ca" with<BR>
only "subscribe ClassicTraveller" as the first line in the message body.  No<BR>
digest mode is available, unfortunately.<BR>
<BR>
        To everyone who is fueling the Zippo's at this point.  Don't bother.<BR>
The existance of the list will not injure the TML in any fashion, nor is it<BR>
established in a spirit of competitiveness or meanness.  This has been a<BR>
grinding point on the TML for as long as I have been on it...  if it reduces<BR>
the number of "Don't talk to me about [MT/ Virus/ T4/ GT]" squables on the<BR>
TML, its done everyone a favor.<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
        (CT Heretic, who enjoys playing TNE)<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	"Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
			       ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Cyberpunk:  	"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"<BR>
	Traveller:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"<BR>
	AD&D:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 10:50:05 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: Re: New Group! xboat@egroups.com (moderated)<BR>
<BR>
Glenn St-Germain wrote:<BR>
> Are you sure this is a new list? I went to the egroups page and looked<BR>
> up "xboat". Eleven, count'em, eleven posts (including two by Legate Legion,<BR>
> whose recent activities prompted you to form the new group in the first place)<BR>
> -- and all the posts are from the second half of 1998.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Actually if you look again you'll see that the "search" function brings<BR>
up both the groups named xboat (of which the new XBOAT: GURPS Traveller<BR>
Mailing List is the only one) and messages that CONTAIN the word xboat<BR>
(which are the eleven messages in question)...the groups for those<BR>
messages are listed in the left column.  Those posts are not part of<BR>
xboat they are in groups like multihulls, tne-races, and 4iwg.<BR>
<BR>
The best thing to do (for a moderated, high density, low volume, GURPS<BR>
traveller discussion) is to send a blank email to<BR>
xboat-subscribe@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
We're picking up some people so I'm very hopeful we'll have some good<BR>
material.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks much,<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 08:39:05<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
At 03:21 PM 1/2/2000 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, some of us do support the idea of separate GT an CT/MT lists.<BR>
>Like myself.<BR>
<BR>
Then go to Onelist and start one.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 08:48:22<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
At 10:08 PM 1/2/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I vote for Gilbert and Sullivan.<BR>
><BR>
>Hmmm. "HMS Pinafore" in Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/mikado.html<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:16:07 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 02 Jan 2000, Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
>In a message dated 1/1/00 10:50:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, semo@pil.net <BR>
>writes:<BR>
><BR>
><< What really soured me on it was the<BR>
> heavy reliance on Chris Foss artwork. I really despise his style. >><BR>
><BR>
>Actually, I like his style. I do agree with you that it's NOT Traveller, <BR>
>however. They should have used someone else. I always liked Liz Danforth, and <BR>
>Mr. Keith...<BR>
<BR>
I remember being about 10 (I think) and being in some godforsaken<BR>
holiday resort in Wales with my family. Went out with my dad and my brother to<BR>
the local newsagents for a paper. The newsagents had a whole wall of science<BR>
fiction, mostly Panther editions, which had mostly Foss covers. I bought<BR>
Triplanetary, my brother bought The Early Asimov, Vol 1.<BR>
<BR>
Those were the first SF books I bought. I remember just sitting staring at the<BR>
covers for what must have been hours. And I'd go back to the shop and stand<BR>
there staring at the wall of covers.<BR>
<BR>
Now, about 28 years later, I can see a<BR>
whole bunch of Foss covers on my shelves. The Orbit Perry Rhodans, in<BR>
particular, are great. I'll bet I'm not the only person who got pulled in and<BR>
further in to SF by artists like Foss, Jim Burns, etc., and thereby into<BR>
Traveller. <BR>
<BR>
I think T4 was right to try and project a different look for the Milieu 0<BR>
background. Having the same ship designs and shapes around in Milieu 0 to those<BR>
1000 years later would have been daft. Whether Foss's determinedly asymmetric<BR>
designs were the most appropriate is maybe another<BR>
matter, but I'm generally OK with T4 on aesthetic grounds. The issue was always<BR>
the content and the quality thereof.<BR>
<BR>
And please, can we stop using words like "despise" on this list?<BR>
<BR>
M<BR>
- -- <BR>
Mark Watson, markw@antares.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:02:47 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
> "One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor...."<BR>
<BR>
My keyboard is fine, but the cappuccino on my monitor may take several tries<BR>
to clean off.  Love that tagline, iSteve!<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:07:05 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
At 07:31 PM 1/2/00 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> Kiri, I just want you to know you don't have to belong to any special<BR>
>community in order to be 'family'.<BR>
>><BR>
>Jory, Family (note the capital F) is how queer/les/bi/gay/trans people refer<BR>
>to themselves, especially in mixed company.  It doesn't mean anything about<BR>
>anyone else not being able to be family with anyone else, it's just a code<BR>
>phrase that people have retained because it's still useful.  =)<BR>
><BR>
>Kiri<BR>
><BR>
        As I have commented to a couple of friends out here who are<BR>
"Family", there is something tragic about needing a code-word to say who you<BR>
really are.  <sigh>  We Terrans have much to learn yet.<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:10:48 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
At 04:13 PM 1/3/00 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
>    I've been playing this game for too many years and NOW, the year 2000,<BR>
>someone points out that the Empress Marava is the same size as the Subbie.<BR>
>Like, they're two pages away from each other and I never noticed! I've been<BR>
>sitting here, shaking my head and counting grid squares. I still can't<BR>
>believe it.<BR>
>    So who came up with the proper stats for the new, improved, 400dt Far<BR>
>Trader?<BR>
>    Jim<BR>
><BR>
        It seems to me that Paul Schrif has both deckplans and stats on his<BR>
site...  check "Hyphen's" directory for the URL...<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	"Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
			       ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Cyberpunk:  	"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"<BR>
	Traveller:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"<BR>
	AD&D:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:19:14 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Michel Vaillancourt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>         As I have commented to a couple of friends out here who are<BR>
> "Family", there is something tragic about needing a code-word to say who you<BR>
> really are.  <sigh>  We Terrans have much to learn yet.<BR>
<BR>
Well, being either kind is technically prosecutable across the bulk of the<BR>
USA, so it's hardly surprising.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:19:32 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
At 10:30 PM 1/2/00 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>I wonder whether very-low-power meson beams, aimed with the help of<BR>
>sensitive densitometers, could be used for some forms of surgery....<BR>
><BR>
>-- <BR>
>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
        The Canadian Research Council was funding cancer treatment<BR>
technology based around meson systems in the mid to late 80's...  I remember<BR>
seeing the article and waving it in front of my gaming group and saying "the<BR>
damn particles *DO* exist"...  we'd just presumed anything that behaved that<BR>
fantastically was "handwavium".<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	"Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
			       ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Cyberpunk:  	"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"<BR>
	Traveller:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"<BR>
	AD&D:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:21:49 -0500<BR>
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 01:14 AM 01/03/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
>At 4:54 -0500 2/1/00, "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:<BR>
>>    You may ask, if you want.  But, it mostly comes from the local GURPS<BR>
>>players in the area, the PR machine of Steve Jackson, & how big a Dick Steve<BR>
>>Jackson is to most gamers.<BR>
><BR>
>I think that you're verging on personal attacks on list members bearing in <BR>
>mind that several of the people who have wrote GT are on the list.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm sorry that you've locally got a bunch of fools who play GURPS and ruin <BR>
>your enjoyment, but this isn't a reason to attack everything to do the SJG <BR>
>and GURPS. I've seen players like this across all sorts of games - it <BR>
>isn't the game company driving them that way.<BR>
<BR>
Hear, hear!  I agree completely.  The reasons (munchkins, etc.) LL cited as <BR>
his beef with SJG and GURPS are the exact reasons I got out of Robotech and <BR>
the other Palladium games.<BR>
<BR>
Kurt Feltenberger<BR>
<BR>
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>
    may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>
      ~Stephen Decatur<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:22:16 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
Okay, Chris gets a 1.0 and a 2.0 score for the two songs, and<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Then, I suddenly got the inspiration to do "Imperial Rhapsody" after<BR>
> imagining Emperor Strephon and Archduke Norris as Wayne and Garth,<BR>
> respectively, in a cramped car. Yes, welcome to my nightmare, I have to live<BR>
> with this defective brain.<BR>
<BR>
a 2.0 for that, for a total of 5.0.  He's a gol-dang keyboard-killing<BR>
(metaphorically) machine.  Surely at least honorary Family, in either<BR>
sense.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1646<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1647</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	1/3/00 11:09:46 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1647<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
Re: T5 (I'm not going to respond to the former title: Re: GURPS vs. T5?)<BR>
Fw: The worlds only dishwasher safe computer keyboard<BR>
Kevin Siembeda artwork?<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
party???<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: traveller poll!<BR>
Friendly warning re time constraints...Was: xboat@egroups.com: MODERATED GT list<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1646<BR>
Re: GG Moons<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
RE: Multi-Genre games<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
xboat@egroups.com is a MODERATED GT list<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
RE: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:25:52 -0600 ()<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
>I agree 1000%<BR>
<BR>
Me too. If people want to take their toys to another list and go play,<BR>
that's fine. But I think there *should* be a combined Traveller list, open<BR>
to any and all who want to post to it. CT, GT, MT, TNE, T4, T5, Palladium<BR>
Traveller, AD&D Traveller, FUDGE Traveller, Bunnies and Burrows Traveller<BR>
- -- whatever, I think the TML should be the common meeting ground. I'm just<BR>
looking for ideas and interesting posts by people that share a similar<BR>
interest: Traveller, in any incarnation.<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 11:32:57 -0600<BR>
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net><BR>
Subject: Re: T5 (I'm not going to respond to the former title: Re: GURPS vs. T5?)<BR>
<BR>
I totally agree with you. Mark please take notice. I started playing in the late<BR>
70's and have everything<BR>
Traveller but I really like the GURPS supplements.<BR>
<BR>
Alex Ingram<BR>
<BR>
> BINGO!!!! Marc MUST (in my opinion...) do this, or T5 will fail to sell to<BR>
> anybody outside the TML...I also think he and Steve (or Loren in a pinch)<BR>
> should have a sit-down and figure out a way for these two games to COMPLEMENT<BR>
> each other, and not undercut each other's sales... The ideal would for the<BR>
> gamer to buy the supplements and rules he/she likes. As an example; I'm not a<BR>
> GURPS player. I do have ALL the GT stuff for reference, but don't use the<BR>
> GURPS rulebook. I would like to buy T5 and be able to use my GT stuff with<BR>
> the T5 rules. A GURPS player would obviously not buy the T5 rules, but would<BR>
> buy the supplements if they are GURPS compatible. Thus he/she can play GURPS<BR>
> Trav in a T5 Milieu 0 or 200 setting for example. I hope that Marc and Loren<BR>
> and Steve consider this approach...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 09:33:25 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Fw: The worlds only dishwasher safe computer keyboard<BR>
<BR>
I received the following.  I thought of the folks on some of the<BR>
lists I belong to and how it might save them from the need to<BR>
replace keyboards after unwisely drinking (and/or eating)<BR>
while reading their email.<BR>
<BR>
My forwarding of this post does not imply and endorsement<BR>
of any kind, I forwarded only as a bit of humor.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <billybobs_1999@yahoo.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 3:17 PM<BR>
Subject: The worlds only dishwasher safe computer keyboard<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> "The worlds only dishwasher safe computer keyboard"  Imagine a<BR>
> computer keyboard that you can roll-up, put in your pocket, and<BR>
> is resistant against all liquids including chemicals. Perfect<BR>
> for travelers or industrial use.  Some of the features of this<BR>
> one-of-a-kind product include:<BR>
><BR>
> * Heat and cold resistant<BR>
> * Comes in a varity or colors<BR>
> * Home/office and industry/medical versions available<BR>
> * Great Holiday Specials, Call before 1/10/99<BR>
><BR>
> For more information about this unique keyboard, please call toll-free :<BR>
><BR>
> *********************888-677-3539***************************************<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:35:57 -0600<BR>
From: "shadowcat" <meow@advancenet.net><BR>
Subject: Kevin Siembeda artwork?<BR>
<BR>
I was flipping through some of my old Judges Guild Traveller <BR>
Modules and realized Kevin Siembeda did some of the art.<BR>
Is this the same guy at Palladium? <BR>
<BR>
its pretty cheesy artwork even for Judges Guild standards,<BR>
then again look at who were talking about...<BR>
<BR>
Shadowcat AKA Kevin Walsh<BR>
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf<BR>
ADD/ADHD Advocate<BR>
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 09:41:07 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> You still on that Simegen List?  I left ages ago.  Kinda got the idea I<BR>
> wasn't wanted.<BR>
> <BR>
1)  I'm really sorry to hear that...<BR>
<BR>
2)  JL and Jean I've known for years now, so...<BR>
<BR>
3)  That list has gone to hell in a hand basket and then some, but all of<BR>
the cool people are on Simegen-AU@onelist.com now, and I thought you were<BR>
just lurking.<BR>
<BR>
Subscribe to Simegen-AU, it's much more fun.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan 					93!  Thou Art God <BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:41:16 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
<BR>
At 02:15 PM 1/3/00 GMT, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>The horror continues!<BR>
><BR>
>...and there's me with my new posh keyboard I got for Christmas, which is <BR>
>now FULL of my best malt scotch!!!!!<BR>
><BR>
>Thanks man, another goody.<BR>
><BR>
>iSteve<BR>
<BR>
        Aw, man... what a waste....<BR>
<BR>
        ...of the keyboard, I mean.<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 09:52:29 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: party???<BR>
<BR>
Forgot to answer...<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Hey Kiri, you going to be at the next BayCon for Doug's "Strephon Silver<BR>
> > Jubilee" party?<BR>
> <BR>
Now that I know about it, I'm not only planning to be there, I'm trying to<BR>
figure out what Lady Julissa would wear to that-- by Baycon should be<BR>
enough time to get that outfit together!<BR>
<BR>
(Are there any artists or costumers on this list who would be interested<BR>
in discussing Vilani, Zhodani, or Far Future Solomani art and clothing and<BR>
homecrafts styles with me, either here or on Trav-Culture?  I am one of<BR>
the few people I know that actually cares about stuff like that.  My main<BR>
specific interest right now is what characters wear and how they do their<BR>
hair, etc...  mostly because I just realized that if I wanted to dress up<BR>
as a Traveller character I would probably just wear work clothes and if<BR>
that wasn't appropriate for the character I would be stumped-- except that<BR>
if I were Zhodani I would wear a big turban, but maybe not cause I'm a<BR>
girl-type.)<BR>
<BR>
> Is that gonna be after the K'Kree roast?<BR>
> <BR>
LOL.  Actually in the G:T stuff the K'Kree look kind of sweet but I<BR>
remember really having problems with them in campaigns....<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:51:51 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
At 12:19 PM 1/3/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Michel Vaillancourt wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>         As I have commented to a couple of friends out here who are<BR>
>> "Family", there is something tragic about needing a code-word to say who you<BR>
>> really are.  <sigh>  We Terrans have much to learn yet.<BR>
><BR>
>Well, being either kind is technically prosecutable across the bulk of the<BR>
>USA, so it's hardly surprising.<BR>
><BR>
>Kenji<BR>
<BR>
        I *think* in Canda we ditched the bedroom laws in the Trudeau era...<BR>
That hasn't changed my parent's generation's mindset, though..  <sigh>  My<BR>
folks and I avoid a handful of topics, simply because their world doesn't<BR>
fit my POV...<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:54:22 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: traveller poll!<BR>
<BR>
Well, there was still one naughty person trying to stack the deck, there.<BR>
The TNE version got a number of bogus entries.  Unfortunately, where there<BR>
is a will (to be a jerk) there is a way :-(<BR>
<BR>
- -Crusty<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Rob Brady" <robb@datatone.com><BR>
> TNE is the second most popular and T4 has almost no supporters? I thought<BR>
> from the list that TNE was like leprosy, and I should really pick up the<BR>
> T4 books if I wanted to gearhead around a little bit.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:03:43 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Friendly warning re time constraints...Was: xboat@egroups.com: MODERATED GT list<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Stuart Bailey wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Just to clarify (and be more focused as suggested):<BR>
> <BR>
> xboat@egroups.com is a MODERATED list for GURPS Traveller discussions. <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Stuart, I run several mailing lists and message boards that I have been<BR>
known to put on moderation if there are problems.  I only moderate boards<BR>
and lists if there is a flame war in progress and then only long enough to<BR>
squelch it completely.<BR>
<BR>
Why?  Because it takes up an AMAZING amount of time to moderate a BBS or<BR>
ML.  If you think just reading the posts on TML takes up too much time<BR>
(remember, this group is pretty good about putting OT in the subject lines<BR>
and you DO have a delete key) you will find out what a time drain is<BR>
really like when you run an actively moderated list or board!<BR>
<BR>
People get irritated when things don't come through for hours or come<BR>
through in big clumps.  Eventually people start subscribing to the digest<BR>
and then the replies get tangled.<BR>
<BR>
It's completely up to you and I will probably join the list.  But I wanted<BR>
you to be aware of what moderating something does to your schedule.<BR>
<BR>
I might also suggest that Xboat is a misleading name for a GT list because<BR>
Xboat was the name of the old *CT* list and if you don't want CT-specific<BR>
posts it might have been better to call the list something else...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93!  Thou Art God tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:12:50 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> > Is that gonna be after the K'Kree roast?<BR>
> ><BR>
> LOL.  Actually in the G:T stuff the K'Kree look kind of sweet but I<BR>
> remember really having problems with them in campaigns....<BR>
<BR>
Well, it all depends on the marinade you use....<BR>
<BR>
I like to marinate K'Kree in a mix of Worcestershire sauce and beer,<BR>
with a couple dashes of Tabasco.  Not "sweet", but tasty.  K'Kree make<BR>
good pot roast, too.  (I use a Crock Pot [tm].)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:14:30 -0600<BR>
From: "Snorkey" <snorkey@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1646<BR>
<BR>
>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
>To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1646<BR>
>Date: Mon, Jan 03, 2000, 11:22 AM<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
> Now, I haven't seen such a system on any other Traveller starship,<BR>
> and I don't recall it ever being specified whether Traveller lift shaft<BR>
> technology makes this possible or not. Is this too "Trekkish" for<BR>
> Traveller?<BR>
Instead of thinking of it as and elevator that goes sideways think of it as<BR>
a shuttle car network. Elevators only go up and down because they are moved<BR>
via a track and cable. The shuttle car network would just be electric train<BR>
cars that follow track. The use of gravity compensators and some sort of<BR>
rotating pod would allow the pod to always be up right for the occupants<BR>
even though it had to reorientate several times to get to it's destination.<BR>
If the pod system were to suffer failure while a pod was in a tub that was<BR>
perpendicular to acceleration, fail safes would apply locking breaks, and<BR>
the internal free rotating internal pod would be self orientated with the<BR>
floor down. Power for internals would be picked up off the track.<BR>
<BR>
I would figure the occupancy of a travel pod it self to be about .5 td per<BR>
person normal occupancy and .2 td per person max.<BR>
<BR>
Power consumption would be mostly the grav compensators.<BR>
<BR>
I would figure that on very large ships 30+k td about .5-1.5% of crew space<BR>
is given over to express travel pod tubes that link 10k sections together.<BR>
<BR>
On huge (100+k td) ships there would be travel pod networks that feed 10-20k<BR>
sections of the ship.<BR>
<BR>
With the Tigress (the big honking ball shaped dreadnought IIRC) would have a<BR>
3 feeder rings around the core (life section) (one ring for each axis)  that<BR>
then would feed through the fuel bunkers to the the various faculties<BR>
(launch, power, main weapon, etc).<BR>
<BR>
Back to sleep,<BR>
Snork<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 18:10:08 +0000<BR>
From: John Buston <John.Buston@tesco.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GG Moons<BR>
<BR>
<<<<BR>
Can anyone tell me: What effect does being in the penumbra of the Moon have<BR>
on us? Am I correct in thinking that the shadow grows less the farther you<BR>
are from the gas giant, AND also the farther you are from the umbra? How<BR>
would I calculate the dimming effect of this shadow? Finally, at what rate<BR>
does the penumbra expand. What is the relationship between the expansion<BR>
the penumbra and the dissipation of the shadow?<BR>
>>><BR>
<BR>
Just draw your lines from the opposite sides of the star. e.g. draw a line from<BR>
the top of the star passing through the bottom of the GG, etc. That area is<BR>
always in penumbra, getting more intense the closer to the total eclipse cone<BR>
you get.  Total darkness at the edge of the total eclipse cone, zero shadow at<BR>
the edge of the penumbra cone.<BR>
<BR>
The amount of shadow is the amount of star the GG obscures at that point in the<BR>
penumbra. The further away you are the less amount of star is obscured. <BR>
<BR>
I suppose technically whenever Mercury passes between Earth and the sun we are<BR>
in Mercury's penumbra, as it is blocking a tiny amount of sunlight from reaching<BR>
us.<BR>
<BR>
<<<<BR>
What I really want to know though is would it be highly significant to<BR>
a moon in the habitable zone, like the birds think it's night time, some<BR>
predators take advantage of this time to catch tasty day snacks using<BR>
nocturnal hunting skills, the native sapient beings are in awe seeing the<BR>
glory of the gas giant in the sky (how different from a full eclipse).<BR>
>>><BR>
<BR>
Probably no more than usual. The moon always passes through the penumbra on its<BR>
way to total eclipse anyway. If this orbit it doesn't quite make total eclipse,<BR>
when it always has before, then it will still be in 90% or more shadow. Whether<BR>
that will make a difference to the local life is up to you.<BR>
<BR>
Surely the best time for seeing the GG in all its glory is in the middle of the<BR>
night? Which happens every few days on a standard, close in, tide locked moon.<BR>
Although the term _night_ might need redefining when you have a monster GG<BR>
reflecting sunlight back at your night side. The GG facing side of the moon, is<BR>
going to see a lot more light over the course of an orbit than the opposite side<BR>
does.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:19:28 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 3:18 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > Ok, now your assignment is to make it to 2100.... :-)<BR>
><BR>
> Don't you mean 20100? :)<BR>
<BR>
No, I think he meant 19200 :-)<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 10:24:13 -0800<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: RE: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:47:06 +1300, "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
wrote: <BR>
<BR>
>> I have a 1st edition AD&D DM's Guide (1979 printing, the year of my birth)<BR>
><BR>
>Now I feel old.<BR>
><BR>
>I remember waiting and waiting for that to come out...<BR>
<BR>
I had the same experience yesterday.  I was down at my local FLG(and<BR>
comics)S when I overheard two boys (of the sort that usually come in to buy<BR>
Pokemon).  One of them was explaining to the other that a certain comic was<BR>
about the "old OLD Star Wars"... referring, apparently, to the movie that I<BR>
saw in 1977 when I was about their age.<BR>
<BR>
Three months to go before I'm 30 and I'm already a fossil.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair   "The Jigglypuff's trilling seems to have a <BR>
kellys@efn.org    tranquilizing effect on the human nervous system.<BR>
                  Fortunately, I am... immune..."<BR>
                            -- Mr. Spock, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:36:09 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > LOL.  Actually in the G:T stuff the K'Kree look kind of sweet but I<BR>
> > remember really having problems with them in campaigns....<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, it all depends on the marinade you use....<BR>
> <BR>
That's not exactly what I meant, though...<BR>
<BR>
> I like to marinate K'Kree in a mix of Worcestershire sauce and beer,<BR>
> with a couple dashes of Tabasco.  Not "sweet", but tasty.  K'Kree make<BR>
> good pot roast, too.  (I use a Crock Pot [tm].)<BR>
> <BR>
That sounds good.  What easily-available meat would you suggest I use this<BR>
on, and would Japanese Worcestershire sauce, which doesn't contain corn<BR>
syrup but rather a fruit juice, work as well?  Or Thai fish sauce?<BR>
Proportions?<BR>
<BR>
(yes, even Lea and Perrins has corn syrup in it...  and I am allergic to<BR>
corn!)<BR>
<BR>
K =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 18:40:42 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
Swordy wrote, admiringly:<BR>
<BR>
>Love that tagline, iSteve!<BR>
<BR>
My friend, it is yours.  As you see below, mine's just changed.  :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
<BR>
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....<BR>
<BR>
P.S. I'll be throwing some money/White Dwarfs/Cheesy old Trav modules your <BR>
way in the next few days mate - hope you're still holding AHL for me!!<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 18:45:02 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
<BR>
iSteve originally wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>...and there's me with my new posh keyboard I got for Christmas, >>which <BR>
>>is now FULL of my best malt scotch!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
To which Monsieur Vaillancourt replied:<BR>
<BR>
>         Aw, man... what a waste....<BR>
><BR>
>         ...of the keyboard, I mean.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
iSteve shakes his head sadly, lamenting the fact that Michel is missing out <BR>
on so much by disliking dozen year old Glenmorangie...<BR>
<BR>
But still, more for me, eh?<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
<BR>
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:53:30 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: xboat@egroups.com is a MODERATED GT list<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> People get irritated when things don't come through for hours or come<BR>
> through in big clumps.  Eventually people start subscribing to the digest<BR>
> and then the replies get tangled.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri, thanks for the warning.  It sounds like you've been through the<BR>
fire and I will take that to heart, but I'm willing to take on the<BR>
challenge if it means very relevant, interesting, dense discussions.  My<BR>
hope is that others will eventually help me moderate if the volume<BR>
increases beyond my capacity.<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
> It's completely up to you and I will probably join the list.  But I wanted<BR>
> you to be aware of what moderating something does to your schedule.<BR>
<BR>
I'm very much looking forward to seeing you on the list!<BR>
<BR>
> I might also suggest that Xboat is a misleading name for a GT list because<BR>
> Xboat was the name of the old *CT* list and if you don't want CT-specific<BR>
> posts it might have been better to call the list something else...<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, I agree that probably wasn't the best choice.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks much,<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
NEW MODERATED GURPS TRAVELLER LIST!<BR>
For a moderated, high density, low volume, GURPS Traveller discussion,<BR>
send a blank message to xboat-subscribe@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 10:36:09<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
At 10:36 PM 1/2/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>No, no, "PIRATES of PENZANCE, or a Slave to Duty" would be better<BR>
>for Doug, for...<BR>
><BR>
> Doug is the very model of a modern Major-General,<BR>
> He has information vegetable, animal, and mineral,<BR>
> He knows the names of the Emperors Imperial, <BR>
>    and can list the wars in order historical<BR>
> From Nth Interstellar to Fifth Frontier, in order categorical;<BR>
> He's very well acquainted, too, with matters mathematical,<BR>
> Can understand designs, both High Guard and FFS-iable,<BR>
> ...<BR>
><BR>
>Yes, Doug is our very model of a modern Major-General!<BR>
<BR>
Well, gosh.  Now I don't have to bother writing my "about the author" for<BR>
Ground Forces... :)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:02:58 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 01 Jan 2000, David L. Pulver wrote:<BR>
>So what's the slang term for this period?  Like, "the twenties" is good for<BR>
>either 1920-29 or 2020-29, and "the nineties" applicable for 1990-99 or<BR>
>2090-99... but what did people call 1900-1909?<BR>
<BR>
The nineteen hundreds. Whatever the fancy terms people are coming up with, I<BR>
suspect we'll end up with the two-thousands as the conventional description in<BR>
50 or so years time, assuming this period is relatively anonymous (as opposed<BR>
to, e.g. the Decade of Catastrophe)<BR>
<BR>
M<BR>
- -- <BR>
Mark Watson, markw@antares.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 11:08:33<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
At 12:20 AM 1/3/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>At 09:06 PM 01/02/2000 -0800, Jesse wrote:<BR>
>>I hear a Traveller, the Silly Era filk in there!!!!<BR>
<BR>
>Filk?  I do not understand the term...<BR>
<BR>
Filk music is the term for songs sung by science-fiction fans at<BR>
conventions.  The term originated from a typo in a convention guide.<BR>
<BR>
Filk songs are often parodies based on popular songs, and based on well<BR>
known television shows (_Banned From Argo_), written works (_Horse tamer's<BR>
Daughter_), RPGs (_You Bash The Balrog, While I Climb The Tree_), the<BR>
oddities of fellow fen and writers (_Gordy Dickson_, _The Night Disclave<BR>
Drowned_)<BR>
<BR>
The songs range from very silly (_The Ballad of Transport 17_, which tells<BR>
the story of a freighter marooned in space with a cargo of beer.. they<BR>
improvise a reaction engine.) to very serious (_The Ballad of Apollo 13_, I<BR>
was lucky enough to be in the room when Jim Lovell first heard it.) To the<BR>
really depressing.  We call these song "ose", as in ose, ose, and morose.<BR>
<BR>
One of the most powerful moments in filk history came after the Challenger<BR>
disaster.  At a filkcon that spring, they had a special concert for songs<BR>
of tribute.  They went from touching to insistent, with a few funny ones at<BR>
the end.<BR>
<BR>
The final song of the evening was performed by Leslie Fish, Filk Goddess.<BR>
She performed _Hope Eyrie_, about the first Moon landing.  The song is<BR>
about how mankind has achieved immortality by leaving his mark on the Moon.<BR>
<BR>
I can't reprint all the lyrics here, but imagine 700 people all singing<BR>
this at with all their heat:<BR>
<BR>
"For the Eagle, has landed<BR>
Tell your children when<BR>
Time won't grind us down to dust again."<BR>
<BR>
Why, yes, I'm a bug on the subject.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1647<BR>
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1647<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1648</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	1/3/00 12:03:20 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1648<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
re: A very happy New Year<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: Kevin Siembeda artwork?<BR>
Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
RE: Hope Eyerie<BR>
RE: Turbolifts<BR>
Re: Santanocheev the man<BR>
Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1631<BR>
GURPS vs T5...does anybody care?<BR>
Re: REPOST: Eneri the Eighth (was: Re: Doug at the stake!...)<BR>
Traveller Roadshows<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
Re: Common Law<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Galaxy Quest!<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
What comes next for GT?<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:11:29 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>I decided that living to see the Year 2000 was a good goal.<BR>
>As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
<BR>
Outstanding!  Time for a very long range goal?<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 14:12:27 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Okay, Chris gets a 1.0 and a 2.0 score for the two songs, and<BR>
<BR>
If I really cared about my score, like I pretend to, my ratings would be<BR>
through the *roof* today! :)<BR>
<BR>
> > imagining Emperor Strephon and Archduke Norris as Wayne and Garth,<BR>
> > respectively, in a cramped car. Yes, welcome to my nightmare, I have to<BR>
live<BR>
> > with this defective brain.<BR>
><BR>
> a 2.0 for that, for a total of 5.0.  He's a gol-dang keyboard-killing<BR>
> (metaphorically) machine.  Surely at least honorary Family, in either<BR>
> sense.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, and I bet you think that I think this is all fun and games, eh? It's<BR>
all fun and games... until somebody loses a keyboard!<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of Family though...<BR>
<BR>
"We are shuh-gill-ee!<BR>
I guess it's the Vih-lahn-ee in me!"<BR>
We are shuh-gill-ee!<BR>
Get up ev'rybody and sing!"<BR>
<BR>
Sorry.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 11:10:09<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
At 07:31 PM 1/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> Kiri, I just want you to know you don't have to belong to any special<BR>
>community in order to be 'family'.<BR>
><BR>
>Jory, Family (note the capital F) is how queer/les/bi/gay/trans people refer<BR>
>to themselves, especially in mixed company.  It doesn't mean anything about<BR>
>anyone else not being able to be family with anyone else, it's just a code<BR>
>phrase that people have retained because it's still useful.  =)<BR>
<BR>
And it's more dignified than "Friend of Dorothy."<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 11:12:59<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
At 12:30 AM 1/3/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>I know.  My point was they shouldn't need a special community because each<BR>
>and every person should be special enough just on their own merits as a<BR>
>human being.<BR>
<BR>
But being in the G/L/B/T category means that you are actually part of a<BR>
minority, one that has only recently dared come out in to the open and<BR>
still faces serious threats.<BR>
<BR>
Part of the appeal of "Family" is that an attack on one of us, is an attack<BR>
on us all.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 11:14:54<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
At 03:04 AM 1/3/2000 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Kiri, I am afraid that you do not understand the true meaning <BR>
>of the word Family. Family refers to certain entirely<BR>
>legitimate and honest businessmen, often of Italian <BR>
>extraction, who are constantly harassed in their legitimate<BR>
>business activities by the intrusive government.<BR>
<BR>
Peter, you and I have to get together so I can do my Marlon Brando<BR>
impersonation for you.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 11:16:20<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
>        As I have commented to a couple of friends out here who are<BR>
>"Family", there is something tragic about needing a code-word to say who you<BR>
>really are.  <sigh>  We Terrans have much to learn yet.<BR>
<BR>
Hey, we're improving.. in the early 20th Century gay men wore red ties to<BR>
ID each other.<BR>
<BR>
Which makes me giggle when I see the hordes of power-tie clad yuppies in<BR>
the Financial District.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 11:20:28<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
At 07:34 PM 1/2/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I bet you would REALLY hate Harn then...:-) (I vaguely remember something <BR>
>about most PC's starting out as peasants...).<BR>
<BR>
If you go completely random.  We fudged rolls to get the characters needed<BR>
for our Peoples Front For the Liberation of Jara campaign.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 11:28:27<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kevin Siembeda artwork?<BR>
<BR>
At 11:35 AM 1/3/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>I was flipping through some of my old Judges Guild Traveller <BR>
>Modules and realized Kevin Siembeda did some of the art.<BR>
>Is this the same guy at Palladium?<BR>
<BR>
Same guy.  I still have the original Mechanoid Invasion book from the early<BR>
80's.  He did all the illos. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 11:31:55<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
<BR>
At 02:43 PM 1/2/2000 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I remember the rumor mill saying that KS was pursuing the computers upon<BR>
>which web pages were posted... I don't know about that, but I do know that<BR>
>there were several lawsuits by Palladium Games/ K. S. over TM infringement<BR>
>and copyright infringement, reported in Protoculture Addicts.<BR>
<BR>
ISTR a time when there were several RPG mags in print that KS sent out an<BR>
order to the editors demanding approval of any article mentioning his<BR>
products, including *reviews*.<BR>
<BR>
I can't remember if this was in Shadis or Pyramid, but the editor shared<BR>
this information, and just said that they had no intention of complying,<BR>
and would simply drop *all* mention of Palladium in the 'zine.  Ads<BR>
included.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:31:25 -0600<BR>
From: "shadowcat" <meow@advancenet.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Hope Eyerie<BR>
<BR>
for those who can play mp3 files, theres a site called the virtual <BR>
filksing which has a copy of Hope Eyerie<BR>
<BR>
Shadowcat AKA Kevin Walsh<BR>
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf<BR>
ADD/ADHD Advocate<BR>
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 14:36:21 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Turbolifts<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>So I decided to try out lifts that acted like the turbolifts in<BR>
>Star Trek. They go up, they go down, they go sideways. They have<BR>
>little side passageways in the lift shafts so cars can pass each<BR>
>other.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>Now, I haven't seen such a system on any other Traveller starship,<BR>
>and I don't recall it ever being specified whether Traveller lift<BR>
>shaft technology makes this possible or not. Is this too "Trekkish"<BR>
>for Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
	I cannot recall seeing it, but IMHO it should be no problem<BR>
	for TL 9+ or so.  Such lifts may have a "Trekkish" feel, but<BR>
	I don't have a problem with that (as long as you don't try<BR>
	to explain it with 'lifton' particles).  On the other hand,<BR>
	I'm not sure that I would want to be aboard a lift in the<BR>
	middle of a battle.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:35:15 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Santanocheev the man<BR>
<BR>
Hans Rancke commented:<BR>
<BR>
> Santanocheev propably does not have a seat in the Moot. He might, but I<BR>
> doubt it. He was jumped from a rather junior rear admiral to sector admiral<BR>
> so fast that the Admiralty at Capital could not possibly have confirmed it<BR>
> before the war broke out. Thus he can only have been breveted (almost<BR>
> certainly by Duchess Delphine). He may have been confirmed before he was<BR>
> dismissed, but then it would have taken time for the Emperor to get around<BR>
> to giving him a peerage. IIRC there were no mention of a noble title in the<BR>
> last TNS newsbriefs about him (in 1112 or so?).<BR>
<BR>
There was a reference to "Rear Admiral Lord Santanocheev" in an 1106 TNS <BR>
news brief, though --<BR>
<BR>
    |: Efate/Regina (0105-A646930-D) Date: 148-1106<BR>
<BR>
       Reliable sources in the defense establishment have admitted in <BR>
       private that the Imperial Army's 1197th Separate Light Infantry <BR>
       Brigade has been engaged in counter-insurgency operations in the<BR>
       Vandere district of Kormoron (Efate's northern continent) for <BR>
       the last eight months.  When asked to comment on Rear-Admiral <BR>
       Lord Santanocheev's recent claim that no Imperial army or marine<BR>
       units had been committed, they declined.<BR>
<BR>
       One official did explain, however, that the brigade was only <BR>
       employed in mopping up operations and had been inserted only to<BR>
       allow rotation of indigenous troops out of combat.  "Once all the<BR>
       local units in Vandere have had a spell in the rear, the 1197th<BR>
       will be pulled out," he said.   :|<BR>
<BR>
> Ah, _sector_ Moot. That's assuming there IS a sector moot to begin with.<BR>
> Even then he would only have a seat if he had a peerage, wouldn't he?<BR>
<BR>
Yeah.  IMTU, there's a semi-official sector Moot where the nobles who don't<BR>
go to the *real* Moot get together to sort out sector issues and figure out<BR>
what instructions to send their voting proxies (the political factions and<BR>
in some cases regions sometimes want to make a united front on an issue).<BR>
There was a sector moot in Daibei mentioned in TNS shortly before they <BR>
seceded during the Rebellion, but it's not clear that this wasn't a reaction<BR>
to the Rebellion (and therefore unusual).<BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 14:32:31 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
<BR>
From: i Steve <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> ...and there's me with my new posh keyboard I got for Christmas, which is<BR>
> now FULL of my best malt scotch!!!!!<BR>
><BR>
> Thanks man, another goody.<BR>
<BR>
That means I can finally change my name to "Weird Al" Yaskodray!<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, thanks for the kind words, i Steve and everybody else!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:38:50 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
>   Steve Jackson Games, in general, & GURPS specificly, sucks. <BR>
<BR>
>I hate GURPS & its simpleminded players.  I hate their <BR>
>arrogance, I hate their lack of gender, I hate their high <BR>
>pitched voices, but, I love the way they run when you put a <BR>
>real game, like CT, on the table.<BR>
<BR>
Don't hold back; you can tell us what you really feel.   <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:08:04 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1631<BR>
<BR>
I've put everything I want to say in one note, apologies for the length.<BR>
<BR>
1) I'm firmly on the CT/MT/T4 side. I like the rules and I like the background.<BR>
I prefer the rules to GURPS for SF games. I've used the rules for other<BR>
backgrounds as well, for the great 2300AD, for SpaceMaster and (see below) most<BR>
recently for Fringeworthy. I like random character and background generation<BR>
systems and I think Traveller has had the best.<BR>
<BR>
I didn't like TNE because it meant GDW dropped support for the MT background<BR>
and rules. I didn't care for Nielsen's writing. I don't hate Nielsen, nor do I<BR>
blame TNE for killing GDW. And I can understand some of the appeal of TNE for<BR>
those who like it.<BR>
<BR>
When GT came out I was the owner of 1 GURPS book - Uplift (a great random alien<BR>
generation system). Now, really directly as a result of Gt, I own about 27<BR>
(according to my shelves), including the GT books themselves. It's been an<BR>
interesting introduction - some are great, some are OK and some aren't so OK -<BR>
but by and large it's got me into GURPS. If I was running a supers game, or a<BR>
fantasy game or maybe a horror game (I prefer the GURPS WW conversions to the<BR>
originals) I'd use the GURPS rules. For SF, I don't, but many of the books are<BR>
useful background texts in their own right. When I started my Fringeworthy<BR>
campaign a couple of months ago, I used MT/T4 rules and some GURPS worldbooks<BR>
for background and inspiration. I'm thinking of moving the action into the<BR>
World of Darkness, making 4 levels of recursion (Trav/Fringeworthy/GURPS/WW),<BR>
though I'm a little cowed by some of the work I'd have to do. Another idea I<BR>
had would be to run a Trav rules campaign in the Space Atlas (1-4) background.<BR>
<BR>
Point(s) being, a) as others have said both Traveller and GURPS have gained<BR>
commercially and in mindshare from GT, and b) Loren should ask for an<BR>
immediate raise on the grounds of the drag through business he has generated<BR>
and c) as a user, it pays to be open minded.<BR>
<BR>
2) This group has a ridiculous amount of trolling and intemperate language. I<BR>
don't mind, I even like, alot of the OT stuff (for the same reason that the<BR>
GURPS worldbooks are useful, it feeds the imagination). But there are too many<BR>
people willing to throw basic netiquette out the window, extending from the self<BR>
serving 20 line signatures, through international and minority insult throwing<BR>
to personal recriminations. <BR>
<BR>
A bunch of people seem to want to go and start their own lists. I'm against<BR>
that. I think we all, from whatever traveller sect we hail, gain from having a<BR>
wider list. Ideally, I would wish for stronger moderation. In the absence of<BR>
that, I'd like to see a basic, reasonably brief FAQ, automatically posted to the<BR>
list on a regular basis (say every month), and sent to new subscribers, setting<BR>
out what is and is not acceptable. Then at least we would have something to<BR>
point at when we ask a person or persons to desist from a particular line,<BR>
before it hits the moderator.<BR>
<BR>
3) GT isn't sacrosanct. The production values have been great, and it's been a<BR>
shot in the arm for Traveller, but the fact that arguments against it are<BR>
being conducted in this silly way prevents us from having a sensible discussion<BR>
about it. <BR>
<BR>
If GT and T5 are to share some commonality, then I'd like to know<BR>
whether some key elements of "canon drift" are actually driven by SJG and<BR>
Loren, or whether they are (as I suspect) just the result of the writers having<BR>
certain opinions which found their way through the editorial process. And<BR>
whether they are likely to be resolved in future editions. My own particular<BR>
bugbear is the interpretation of TL in Far Trader. Others might include:<BR>
- - significantly different world building results in First In<BR>
- - the introduction of minor races from Aliens & Artifacts (don't get me wrong,<BR>
David, I liked A&A and I'm also a fan of the SpaceMaster background - I just<BR>
don't think these races have fitted well into Traveller, and I'd have preferred<BR>
write-ups of other minor races).<BR>
<BR>
And a concern I have with these breakaway lists is that reasonable but<BR>
dissenting opinion will evaporate, which is particularly important for GT.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Mark Watson,</HTML>
<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1649</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	1/3/00 1:07:07 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
Sender:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Reply-to:	traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
To:	traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1649<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: What comes next for GT?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs T5...does anybody care? <Yes><BR>
Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
Re: Harn <BR>
Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
Re: Canon Drift<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
re: Turbolifts<BR>
Re: MODERATOR:<BR>
RE: Multi-Genre games<BR>
Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: REPOST: Eneri the Eighth (was: Re: Doug at the stake!...)<BR>
Re: SJG bashing<BR>
Re: SJG bashing<BR>
Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
RE: Traveller Game in San Francisco (NOT!!)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: xboat@egroups.com: MODERATED GT list<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:11:33 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
From: Postmark Design Bureau <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Still - how long before they build a wall around New York and throw<BR>
>all the criminals inside?<BR>
<BR>
Get with the *times* Phil! That was back in 1988. Jeff Zeitlin has been the<BR>
Duke of New York ever since 1997.<BR>
<BR>
Jeff's the Duke of New York! He's "A #1"!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 14:20:24 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: What comes next for GT?<BR>
<BR>
Boris Cibic wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>   A question, what comes next for GT?  I know about GT: Imperial Navy, GT:<BR>
> Starports, GT: Starships,GT: Modular Cutter, GT: Solomani Rim and the<BR>
> continuation of Alien Race serial.  BUT WHAT REALLY BIG is planned?<BR>
<BR>
You mean, besides Doug Berry writing GT: Ground Forces?  You need<BR>
something _bigger_?<BR>
<BR>
Well, there's always "Chez Beowulf"....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:14:50 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs T5...does anybody care? <Yes><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>   In all this discussion, does anyone know if Marc actually reads and<BR>
tracks<BR>
> the opinion polls that he has posted on his site or are they a way to let<BR>
> off steam.<BR>
<BR>
He is very concerned, he has put the polls on the site for a good reason (he<BR>
wants our opinions and will use them to shape future products).  For our<BR>
part we need to participate in the process by looking at the material he has<BR>
put out so far and commenting on it in a useful way.  In fact, it is my<BR>
experience that Marc will consider our thoughtful comments and respond in<BR>
kind.  Like any of us, his time is limited and he sets priorities based on<BR>
the input he receives.  I'm sure that if he hears about all of this interest<BR>
in T5 he will move the project along in the anticipation of it receiving an<BR>
appreciative audience.  Note that he has made two posts today in general<BR>
response to the conversation.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 16:21:25 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
<BR>
At 06:45 PM 1/3/00 GMT, you wrote:<BR>
>iSteve originally wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>>...and there's me with my new posh keyboard I got for Christmas, >>which <BR>
>>>is now FULL of my best malt scotch!!!!!<BR>
><BR>
>To which Monsieur Vaillancourt replied:<BR>
><BR>
>>         Aw, man... what a waste....<BR>
>><BR>
>>         ...of the keyboard, I mean.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>iSteve shakes his head sadly, lamenting the fact that Michel is missing out <BR>
>on so much by disliking dozen year old Glenmorangie...<BR>
<BR>
        With a few notable exceptions, most Scotches I've been introduced to<BR>
taste like another form of distillate...  =)<BR>
<BR>
>But still, more for me, eh?<BR>
<BR>
        Yep<BR>
<BR>
>iSteve<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	"Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
			       ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Cyberpunk:  	"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"<BR>
	Traveller:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"<BR>
	AD&D:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:28:31 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Harn <BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000 Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 1/2/00 7:59:26 PM Pacific Standard Time, tiamat@tsoft.com <BR>
> writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> << My favorite settings were always Renaissance or Victorian, if I couldn't be<BR>
>  in the Far Future.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  And I LOVED Call of Cthulhu.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Kiri  =)<BR>
>   >><BR>
> <BR>
> Have you checked out the OP GDW S1889 or the new 7th Seas?<BR>
> <BR>
I haven't seen 7th Seas.  We were going to use S1889 in my Cthulhu by<BR>
Gaslight campaign but everything fell apart... and I haven't really been<BR>
in a regular campaign since...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 19:58:12 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Term for 1900-1909 and 2000-2009<BR>
<BR>
At 14:08 -0500 3/1/00, Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>The nineteen hundreds. Whatever the fancy terms people are coming up with, I<BR>
>suspect we'll end up with the two-thousands as the conventional description in<BR>
>50 or so years time, assuming this period is relatively anonymous (as opposed<BR>
>to, e.g. the Decade of Catastrophe)<BR>
<BR>
We could call them the 'naughties'?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:38:25 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Canon Drift<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:08:04 +0000<BR>
>From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1631<BR>
<BR>
>-the introduction of minor races from Aliens & Artifacts (don't get me<BR>
>wrong, >David, I liked A&A and I'm also a fan of the SpaceMaster<BR>
background - >I just >don't think these races have fitted well into<BR>
Traveller, and I'd have >preferred >write-ups of other minor races).<BR>
<BR>
Oh, no offense taken.  The minor races were originally written for my own<BR>
Traveller campaign -- they only got into Spacemaster by default, and are<BR>
all rewritten extensively to ensure that they fit with existing canon.  As<BR>
far as I know, they are all approved by Marc even _before_ the first draft<BR>
is actually written, as outlines for them are submitted to Loren for that<BR>
purpose.<BR>
<BR>
On a philosophical ground, I like the addition of new alien races, as it<BR>
prevents the ossification of the setting and encourages, by example, the<BR>
development of new content rather than the regurgitation of the old. "First<BR>
contact" scenarios are a staple of science fiction.  That said, I<BR>
completely support the write ups of existing alien minor races.  I was<BR>
stunned to find their descriptions but no stats in Behind the Claw, for<BR>
example. <BR>
<BR>
When I've added anything significant to GT (for example, the nameless<BR>
Zhodani intelligence agency renamed Tozjabr "the eye and the hand") Loren<BR>
has contacted Marc before the first draft to check on its acceptability.  I<BR>
am personally aware of elements in other author's books modified to better<BR>
conform to canon.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:36:56 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> And please, can we stop using words like "despise" on this list?<BR>
<BR>
With all due respect, Mark, I won't, and it was my post that you seem to be<BR>
referring to. If there's something I don't like, I'm going to say that I<BR>
don't like it. I don't go out of my way to offend people, and I wouldn't be<BR>
particularly offended if somebody else said that they despise something I<BR>
like.<BR>
<BR>
In fact, being a fan of TNE, I've seen it plenty of times. If it looks like<BR>
someone hates TNE for the wrongs reasons, I'll pipe up. Otherwise, I'll<BR>
chalk it up to personal preference and opinion. My statement was in<BR>
reference to the main rulebook of T4, and it's true: I really do dislike his<BR>
style to the point at which using the term "despise" is not only accurate<BR>
and appropriate.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure how to take your comment. Should I simply shut up, and not<BR>
comment on something which I feel is relevant to the discussion at hand?<BR>
Should I censor my opinions because there's the possibility that someone<BR>
might be unhappy because I hate something that they like? Is it the word<BR>
itself? Would "d*sp*s*" be better, then? Or should I soften my statements,<BR>
and in doing so, make them lies?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:03:09 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
Are you a GURPS Traveller player?<BR>
<BR>
Are you looking for intelligent discussion about GT and anything not<BR>
specific to CT/MT/TNE/T4?<BR>
<BR>
Are you tired of personal exchanges like the one below?<BR>
<BR>
Join a MODERATED GURPS Traveller List with an emphasis on low volume and<BR>
high quality!<BR>
<BR>
send a blank message to xboat-subscribe@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
Thanks much,<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Someone wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> > And please, can we stop using words like "despise" on this list?<BR>
> <BR>
> With all due respect [to you] I won't, and it was my post that you seem to be<BR>
> referring to. If there's something I don't like, I'm going to say that I<BR>
> don't like it. I don't go out of my way to offend people, and I wouldn't be<BR>
> particularly offended if somebody else said that they despise something I<BR>
> like.<BR>
> <BR>
> In fact, being a fan of TNE, I've seen it plenty of times. If it looks like<BR>
> someone hates TNE for the wrongs reasons, I'll pipe up. Otherwise, I'll<BR>
> chalk it up to personal preference and opinion. My statement was in<BR>
> reference to the main rulebook of T4, and it's true: I really do dislike his<BR>
> style to the point at which using the term "despise" is not only accurate<BR>
> and appropriate.<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm not sure how to take your comment. Should I simply shut up, and not<BR>
> comment on something which I feel is relevant to the discussion at hand?<BR>
> Should I censor my opinions because there's the possibility that someone<BR>
> might be unhappy because I hate something that they like? Is it the word<BR>
> itself? Would "d*sp*s*" be better, then? Or should I soften my statements,<BR>
> and in doing so, make them lies?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:58:43 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Speaking of Family though...<BR>
> <BR>
> "We are shuh-gill-ee!<BR>
> I guess it's the Vih-lahn-ee in me!"<BR>
> We are shuh-gill-ee!<BR>
> Get up ev'rybody and sing!"<BR>
> <BR>
> Sorry.<BR>
<BR>
Ye Yaskoydrays.  What have we created?<BR>
<BR>
Let me help.  Chris, can you picture the Village People as a buncha<BR>
Traveller PCs?  Or maybe as representatives of Known Space?<BR>
<BR>
In fear and trembling,<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:54:21 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Turbolifts<BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>><BR>
	I cannot recall seeing it, but IMHO it should be no problem<BR>
	for TL 9+ or so.  Such lifts may have a "Trekkish" feel, but<BR>
	I don't have a problem with that (as long as you don't try<BR>
	to explain it with 'lifton' particles).  On the other hand,<BR>
	I'm not sure that I would want to be aboard a lift in the<BR>
	middle of a battle.<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
I think if the self-contained gravitically-powered module idea is used<BR>
the lifts would be no more or less dangerous than any other part of<BR>
the ship...unless they're moving through clear glass tubes on the<BR>
surface of the ship, like those on the _Cygnus_ in the movie<BR>
_The Black Hole_. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
I am designing with vertical access hatches and access corridors<BR>
as backup. IMO, aboard a warship, you should be able to get from <BR>
anywhere  to anywhere on the ship, including the inside of the lift shafts, <BR>
even if all ship's power is out.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:03:08<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: MODERATOR:<BR>
<BR>
At 05:25 PM 1/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>  Don't hold your breath; Clif went on (often interspersed with useful<BR>
>ObTravs, admittedly) for many weeks. IIRC, it was only after he wasn't<BR>
>kicked out that he got really offensive and various people left the list.<BR>
>i.e., the list is neither moderated (not that that is practical or even<BR>
>desirable) nor really subject to supervision - if Clif was any example then<BR>
>either putting up with this loon or quitting his list are your only options.<BR>
<BR>
Clif never made it clear he wanted people to die.  He was just a jerk.  He<BR>
got a 30-day suspension, came back, and was still a jerk.<BR>
<BR>
I can't make it clear enough just how furious Legion's posts made me.<BR>
Replace his comments about GURPS players with words like "nigger",<BR>
"faggot", or "kike".  The hatred is just as real.<BR>
<BR>
You don't know how close I came yesterday to quitting Traveller.<BR>
Cancelling the GF contract, tossing everything.  giving it up after twenty<BR>
years.  That's how angry and scared I was.  I am writing for GURPS.  Legate<BR>
Legion says that for that reason I should be burnt.  I've given extensive<BR>
information about myself.  I don't know LL.  How the hell am I to know that<BR>
he won't show up at Super Shuttle with a gun?<BR>
<BR>
I will not leave.  I've been on this list for years.  I've even been an<BR>
enthusiastic participant in some of the hottest flame wars we've ever had.<BR>
But I will NEVER accept somebody calling for the death of other people for<BR>
their choice of Traveller rule sets.<BR>
<BR>
You want to argue with me? Fine.  Call my views wrong?  You have the right.<BR>
 Tell me that you'd like to see my blood all over the place?  Never.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:06:49<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
At 10:24 AM 1/3/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Three months to go before I'm 30 and I'm already a fossil.<BR>
<BR>
Ha!  My 9-year old niece has never seen an encyclopedia.  To her, the idea<BR>
of looking up something in a big book is as silly as the thought of<BR>
prop-driven airliners were to us.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:10:17<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: multi-genre systems<BR>
<BR>
At 09:00 AM 1/3/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>If the Palladium RPG is a multigenre system, then *any* system is<BR>
>potentially a multigenre system. All Palladium did to make their system<BR>
>"multigenre" was bolt on fire combat rules to their D&D-inspired (cloned)<BR>
>core fantasy rules.<BR>
<BR>
Remember, the Thieves' World boxed set included stats for Traveller!  The<BR>
mages had a "Magic" skill.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:19:15<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
At 09:52 AM 1/3/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> > Hey Kiri, you going to be at the next BayCon for Doug's "Strephon Silver<BR>
>> > Jubilee" party?<BR>
>> <BR>
>Now that I know about it, I'm not only planning to be there, I'm trying to<BR>
>figure out what Lady Julissa would wear to that-- by Baycon should be<BR>
>enough time to get that outfit together!<BR>
<BR>
damn, now I have to do the Marine uniform!<BR>
<BR>
>> Is that gonna be after the K'Kree roast?<BR>
>> <BR>
>LOL.  Actually in the G:T stuff the K'Kree look kind of sweet but I<BR>
>remember really having problems with them in campaigns....<BR>
<BR>
I'll take this to the TravellerinSF list, but I was figuring on having the<BR>
K'Kree roast at Denny's like last year, then opening the party at about<BR>
2000hrs.  This all very tentative at this point.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:28:04<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
At 10:30 PM 1/2/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>Robert O'Connor wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> N.B. The oncological definition of 'cure' is a disease free interval of<BR>
>> five years.<BR>
<BR>
Which will fall for me next January 1st.<BR>
<BR>
>> Chemo may be frightening, but<BR>
>> realistically it's the only chance she has*, and she lives in the nation<BR>
>> with the best (and among the most aggressive) oncologists in the world.<BR>
<BR>
Suddenly picturing my oncologist in battle armor with an axe.  RRaarrgh!<BR>
<BR>
Most of chemo's heaviest side effects have been dealt with.  I really had<BR>
very few problems with nausea or skin discoloration.<BR>
<BR>
>I wonder whether very-low-power meson beams, aimed with the help of<BR>
>sensitive densitometers, could be used for some forms of surgery....<BR>
<BR>
The first time I had a MRI, I realized that I was inside a densinometer.<BR>
Cool!<BR>
<BR>
That's one of the few advantages I've found to my illness.. I've been<BR>
exposed to some very interesting technologies, and had the chance to see my<BR>
own brain.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:31:56<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: REPOST: Eneri the Eighth (was: Re: Doug at the stake!...)<BR>
<BR>
At 01:01 AM 1/3/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Not yet.  Doug had mentioned that he was planning to put it on his<BR>
>Traveller: The Silly Era page, but he never got around to it.<BR>
<BR>
Doug has been a bit overwhelmed by other concerns, and really hasn't had<BR>
the time to do work on the site.  It will happen though.  Trust me.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:37:05<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
At 07:37 PM 1/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Anime fans do that too.  For years anime fans would whine and complain that<BR>
>there were very few women into anime.  This was a serious problem because<BR>
>unlike RPG's, many women who are not into anime feel threatened by it.  In<BR>
>the mid 90's there was an explosion of good shows in Japan that were aimed<BR>
>at females-- <BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>The mostly<BR>
>male anime fans complained bitterly even though these shows were drawing in<BR>
>the female interest that everyone had wanted to see.<BR>
<BR>
Grin.  The smae thing happened to the Harley-Davidson market.<BR>
<BR>
For years bikers complained that everybody was buying Japanese bikes,<BR>
ignoring the fine Milwaukee Iron, and wouldn't it be wonderful if everbody<BR>
rode a Hog...<BR>
<BR>
In the mid-80s, Harleys became popular.  But the new riders weren't the<BR>
traditinal bikers, but instead everyday people.  Now the bikers whine about<BR>
all the yuppies taking up space, driving up prices..<BR>
<BR>
Ya just can't win.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:38:49<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
At 02:34 AM 1/3/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> > Hey Kiri, you going to be at the next BayCon for Doug's "Strephon Silver<BR>
>> > Jubilee" party?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Is that gonna be after the K'Kree roast?<BR>
><BR>
>I was under the impression that Roast K'Kree would be the entree....<BR>
<BR>
Considering that we're thinking about getting the job done by "Redneck<BR>
Earl's Texas BBQ"...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:43:24<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
<BR>
At 04:27 AM 1/3/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>That's bound to make anyone loopy. The following tune is to be sung to the<BR>
>lyrics of "Bohemian Rhapsody". The lyrics have been adapted by Chris<BR>
>"Archduke Mercury" Seamans. Read it and weep! It's SAD!<BR>
<BR>
Beautiful!!!  I may have to revise the bloody pages now.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:48:27<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Game in San Francisco (NOT!!)<BR>
<BR>
At 08:55 PM 1/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Ya know, this pi$$%s me off even more than the flame war going on right<BR>
>now!! I mean really, why should THAT side of the continent have all the<BR>
>fun!? Heck, it's going to fall off into the sea soon anyway!<BR>
<BR>
My dear sir, as any Left Coastie can tell you, we aren't going to fall into<BR>
the sea, everything east of the Sierras is going to collapse into the<BR>
Atlantic.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:50:29<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
At 06:15 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Kenji..Don't MAKE ME SEND in the PENGUINS......:)<BR>
<BR>
Filk idea!!!!!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:49:54<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
At 02:58 PM 1/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I gave you one of them.  Or maybe it was someone else who had the same<BR>
>shirt.  Actually there is always one man wearing that shirt at every Pride<BR>
>march.  I know because I saw him in Columbus Ohio and I am pretty sure it<BR>
>wasn't you.<BR>
<BR>
are you sure about that?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.<BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TravGeekCode: <BR>
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>
         <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:52:33<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
At 12:14 AM 1/3/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>It's not my fault!  They forced me to make that last post.  There are<BR>
>several penguins in my room all holding tommy guns.  Well, except for the<BR>
>larger one smoking a cigar.<BR>
<BR>
You know, when I die, I'm going to get to the Pearly gates, and St. Peter<BR>
will go through my life.  I was kind to cats.  I never stole.  I helped old<BR>
ladies across the streets.<BR>
<BR>
But then he'll fix his gaze on me, and rumble "But we have some concerns<BR>
about this penguin issue..."<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:53:01<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
At 04:15 PM 1/3/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
>>It's not my fault!  They forced me to make that last post.  There are<BR>
>>several penguins in my room all holding tommy guns.  Well, except for the<BR>
>>larger one smoking a cigar.<BR>
><BR>
>    He's called "Dulinor", he's an Emperor Penguin.<BR>
<BR>
3.0 x2.  6 points awarded.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:01:00<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: xboat@egroups.com: MODERATED GT list<BR>
<BR>
At 03:20 AM 1/3/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Posts will be cut if they:<BR>
><BR>
>1) Do not relate to Traveller<BR>
<BR>
This why I will not be subscribing.  If the post to the TML had constrained<BR>
in this way, I never would have met half of you, never been able to share<BR>
in the accomplishments and landmarks that you have shared with us, nor<BR>
earned the label Penguin Boy.<BR>
<BR>
A few years back, I had to be hospitalized.  I asked the list to send<BR>
messages of support to my wife.  We still have those emails.<BR>
<BR>
This is a community, not a research tank.  Yes, we get off-topic, but<BR>
sometimes the off-topics can reach back to Traveller in the strangest ways.<BR>
<BR>
If you think we're bad, Duchovny-l hasn'y mentioned David Duchovny or the<BR>
The X-Files in living memory.  But we have great fun.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:01:34<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
At 06:01 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
>you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
>Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1649<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1650</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1650<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: New Group! <BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Laws of physics<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: Sac'to? <BR>
Traveller Versions - What I Liked and Did Not Like<BR>
RE: Turbolifts<BR>
Re: xboat@egroups.com: MODERATED GT list<BR>
Anything interesting?<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Anything interesting?<BR>
re: Turbolifts<BR>
Re: Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<sigh> Do I dare?  Downport.com update<BR>
Traveller Filk Fragments and Twisted ideas<BR>
RE: Village People as PC's<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:04:26 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Jan 00, at 22:47, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Use Aftermath - it's only slow torture :)<BR>
> <BR>
> You realize that Aftermath is actually simpler than the AD&D rules ?<BR>
> <BR>
> While people complain about the flow-chart in Aftermath, a similar<BR>
> flow-chart for AD&D combat would be at least twice the size.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, I know. My group played Aftermeth for years back in the 80s. IMO <BR>
the flow chart was a mistake, because idiots saw it and assumed that <BR>
the game was so complicated it needed the flow chart to be playable, <BR>
rather than it's having one as an _aid_.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:04:26 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: New Group! <BR>
<BR>
On 3 Jan 00, at 1:27, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>         Steven Hudson - a CT person on the G:T list - go figure!<BR>
<BR>
Had I a functioning credit card I'd be a TNE fan on a G:T list, so <BR>
there!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:06:40 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
>At 02:08 AM 1/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>>    Is it so bad, that I want to see the blood of every GURPS<BR>
>>player, outside of their body, in vast amounts?<BR>
>Send me your address.  Now.  You are making terrorist threats <BR>
>and I will *not* stand for it.<BR>
<BR>
My understanding of the present state of the law -- which may be<BR>
wrong -- is that if he's making terroristic threats in violation<BR>
of California law, it doesn't matter where he's sending them<BR>
from, as long as they are coming somehow into California.  This<BR>
is an even better case than the California adult web site owners<BR>
who were prosecuted in Tennessee for violating Tennessee's<BR>
obscenity laws.  <BR>
<BR>
Doug, why don't you call the DA?  This looks like an interesting<BR>
case.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:08:07 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Laws of physics<BR>
<BR>
>>>> I was involved in a D&D campaign with a similar premise once. The GM<BR>
>>>> quickly realized that he'd made a big mistake. I was able to describe<BR>
>>>> *from memory (how to extract saltpetre, and how to make gunpowder. I<BR>
>>>> could also detail how to produce sulphuric, hydrochloric and nitric<BR>
>>>> acids.<BR>
<BR>
As a game mistress, I have only one thing to say to this.<BR>
<BR>
Unless you're playing yourself, magickally transported into another<BR>
universe, your characters don't know what you know.  My Vargr martial<BR>
artist Alargor does not know how to speak Japanese, make a Cavalier formal<BR>
gown, reroot fashion dolls, or set up a formal dinner for 12.  I do not<BR>
know how to operate starship guns nor are there planets in the Imperium<BR>
where due to law level, I would be forced to register myself as a deadly<BR>
weapon due to my skill at beating things up.  I am OK at defending myself<BR>
so far but in the cosmic scale, I suck at beating things up.<BR>
<BR>
And if you are playing yourself, magickally transported into another<BR>
universe, you don't have the basic world knowledge that anyone in that<BR>
world would have.<BR>
<BR>
I am a practicing occultist AND an employee of one of the best-known<BR>
institutes of medical research in the US.  I believe in both science and<BR>
magick and I don't believe they contradict each other, and I have never<BR>
run a game in which the rules of physics or the laws of magick as I<BR>
understood them were violated, with the exception of special scenarios<BR>
that were unique to a given game universe.  And I never have a problem<BR>
like this because your character does not know how to make gunpowder any<BR>
more than you know some of his basic life knowledge... you have the skills<BR>
that exist in your universe, at the level of knowledge that exists in that<BR>
universe, period.<BR>
<BR>
BTW games in which people play themselves can be very interesting because<BR>
of the lack of knowledge people have about how to live in various<BR>
environments.  I would suck in a medieval setting even with my MA in<BR>
history because I don't camp even with MODERN equipment. However, I was<BR>
once disallowed as a Call of Cthulhu character due to my demonstratable<BR>
skills in the categories of Occult and Mythos knowledge.  Everyone else<BR>
was allowed to play themselves- but not me.  :P<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan					 93!  Thou Art God <BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:09:50 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 06:01 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
> >you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
> >Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
> <BR>
> OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
> <BR>
Me me me ME!!!  Can I do it?  PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE?  I've been good!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri-chan <BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:23:54 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
I'd be too afraid to see my own brain..God only knows what I'd find..it<BR>
might even be a........PENGUIN!<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 12:28 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new<BR>
year)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> That's one of the few advantages I've found to my illness.. I've been<BR>
> exposed to some very interesting technologies, and had the chance to see<BR>
my<BR>
> own brain.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:25:53 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
Forget him Kiri!  Sedate ME!!  :)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 4:09 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > At 06:01 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
> > >you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
> > >Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
> ><BR>
> Me me me ME!!!  Can I do it?  PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE?  I've been good!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:17:57 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sac'to? <BR>
<BR>
>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Sac'to? (Was Re: SF Trav game)<BR>
<BR>
>All the BITS adventures are designed for 6 characters...<BR>
<BR>
That just confirms my suspicions that BITS is a Droyne plot.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 14:09:55 -0700<BR>
From: scharlto@ifsna.com<BR>
Subject: Traveller Versions - What I Liked and Did Not Like<BR>
<BR>
I was thinking about all of the argument and dissention, and I<BR>
decided to pontificate.  Ignore if you are easily bored...<BR>
<BR>
Classic Traveller<BR>
Good - It started it all.  The expanded generation rules for<BR>
characters.  High Guard.   A real sense of wonder.<BR>
Bad - Oversimplistic task resolution system, restricted amount<BR>
of equipment/weapons in basic rules, range bands<BR>
<BR>
MegaTraveller<BR>
Good - Rebellion added a sense of internal conflict, but did not<BR>
remove exploratory opportunities.  Task system was a definite<BR>
plus.  Condensation of lots of rules from many books into one<BR>
set.  DGP<BR>
Bad - Errata followed by more errata.  Background was not<BR>
handled well as time passed (Hard Times was cool, but spelled<BR>
the end of the Traveller Universe as we knew it).  Few published<BR>
adventures, and those that were published (other than in JTAS)<BR>
were more campaigns than adventures.  But I am told that<BR>
collections of adventures do not sell well nowadays.<BR>
<BR>
The New Era<BR>
Good - FF&S was a really great idea.  Battle Rider.  Overall<BR>
rules were much more polished and detailed.<BR>
Bad - Setting was too removed from 'Classic Traveller'.<BR>
Anti-Imperial sentiment in the Regency even made the rump<BR>
Imperium non-Traveller like.  Poorly organized design rules in<BR>
FF&S, and lack of standardized pre-designed components made FF&S<BR>
difficult or impossible for many casual users (but, being a<BR>
gearhead, I used it quite happily.<BR>
<BR>
T4<BR>
Good - Marc came back to Traveller.  The Mileu Zero concept held<BR>
a great deal of promise.  Some supplements showed great<BR>
inventiveness.<BR>
Bad - Extremely poor quality of work all around; little or no<BR>
editing, no effort to validate text consistency with known<BR>
Traveller history.  Sylean culture made more Vilani-centric,<BR>
which seems to clash with previous Solomani-centric<BR>
interpretations in older Traveller versions.  Badly written or<BR>
edited core rules largely doomed this version even before the<BR>
suplements came out.<BR>
<BR>
GURPS Traveller<BR>
Good - Good production quantity and quality.  Good writing with<BR>
involvement and editing from people who are familiar with<BR>
Traveller history.  Good background and roleplay sidebars in the<BR>
supplements.  Good artwork (which is rare for SJG books).<BR>
Bad - Use of GURPS TLs and the effects of GURPS<BR>
rules/conventions creates a game that does not have the 'feel'<BR>
of Traveller.  There are also (apparently by contractual<BR>
requirement, but also due to general creative drift) some<BR>
significant differences in Classic Traveller canon and the GT<BR>
canon.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
So for me, what this has meant is that I have pretty much<BR>
everything from all of these five versions.  Of this material,<BR>
the only stuff I really regret getting is most of the Judges<BR>
Guild stuff and most of the T4 stuff.  And even these items have<BR>
had some little bits and pieces woth stealing and using in my<BR>
campaign.<BR>
<BR>
It occurred to me that I am not playing Marc Miller's Traveller,<BR>
MegaTraveller or Classic Traveller.  I am playing Steve<BR>
Charlton's Traveller.  THis is a game playing using a mixture of<BR>
MegaTraveller and TNE rules and equipment, in a setting that<BR>
once was MegaTraveller but which has seen a reunification of the<BR>
Imperium before things got to the Hard Times phase.   My game is<BR>
evenly divided between mercantile and exploratory, with a good<BR>
amount of mercenary, political and espionage adventures thrown<BR>
in to keep the wargamer part of my soul content.  I don't like<BR>
GURPS as a game, but I have bought and used plenty of GURPS<BR>
background material for Traveller, Traveller 2300 and Harn<BR>
campaigns I have run.  I never played int he Reformation<BR>
Coalition for TNE, but I have all of the source books, and have<BR>
lifted characters, equipment and adventure ideas from these<BR>
books.  I have not played Classic Traveller in years, but I<BR>
still crib ideas from 101 Patrons all the time.<BR>
<BR>
So I like the combined list.  I can steal ideas pretty much as I<BR>
wish, and the signal-to-noise is not so bad.  I don't mind the<BR>
2nd Amendment debates that crop up (of course, I am an American<BR>
and a staunch pro-gun guy, so what do you expect), and I don't<BR>
mind the piracy or near-c rock disucssions that come up (so what<BR>
if they are touchy subjects?  They are Traveller subjects, most<BR>
certainly).  I don't post as much as I used too, but that onl;y<BR>
becuase Real Life has given me increased levels of<BR>
repsonsibility and work, and so I cannot spend as much computer<BR>
time on 'fun' stuff as I used to.  But its all still useful to<BR>
me.<BR>
<BR>
People can like or hate what they like.  Very few people agree<BR>
with all of my likes or dislikes, so I reptty much don't worry<BR>
about it any more.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Steven Charlton<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 16:22:25 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Turbolifts<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith writes:<BR>
Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>><BR>
	I cannot recall seeing it, but IMHO it should be no problem<BR>
	for TL 9+ or so.  Such lifts may have a "Trekkish" feel, but<BR>
	I don't have a problem with that (as long as you don't try<BR>
	to explain it with 'lifton' particles).  On the other hand,<BR>
	I'm not sure that I would want to be aboard a lift in the<BR>
	middle of a battle.<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
>I think if the self-contained gravitically-powered module idea is<BR>
>used the lifts would be no more or less dangerous than any other<BR>
>part of the ship...unless they're moving through clear glass tubes<BR>
>on the surface of the ship, like those on the _Cygnus_ in the movie<BR>
>_The Black Hole_. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
	At least if the grav plates in a corridor fail, you are not<BR>
	trapped.<BR>
<BR>
>I am designing with vertical access hatches and access corridors<BR>
>as backup. IMO, aboard a warship, you should be able to get from <BR>
>anywhere  to anywhere on the ship, including the inside of the lift<BR>
>shafts, even if all ship's power is out.<BR>
<BR>
	Always a good plan.  If powered doors loose power, how easy<BR>
	is it for crew to open them?  I figure that any competant<BR>
	Mechanic with tools can open such a door in a couple of<BR>
	minutes (faster with power tools).<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:27:25 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: Re: xboat@egroups.com: MODERATED GT list<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 03:20 AM 1/3/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Posts will be cut if they:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >1) Do not relate to Traveller<BR>
> <BR>
> This why I will not be subscribing.  If the post to the TML had constrained<BR>
> in this way, I never would have met half of you, never been able to share<BR>
> in the accomplishments and landmarks that you have shared with us, nor<BR>
> earned the label Penguin Boy.<BR>
<BR>
I completely understand.  I participate in some wonderful online<BR>
communities as well.<BR>
<BR>
> A few years back, I had to be hospitalized.  I asked the list to send<BR>
> messages of support to my wife.  We still have those emails.<BR>
<BR>
That's great!  I'm lucky enough to be blessed with some incredible<BR>
friends also.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> This is a community, not a research tank.  Yes, we get off-topic, but<BR>
> sometimes the off-topics can reach back to Traveller in the strangest ways.<BR>
<BR>
I completely understand; thank you for helping me clarify the<BR>
xboat@egroups.com focus.  I AM interested in fostering a research/think<BR>
tank mentality for GT and non-CT/MT/TNE/T4 specific Traveller<BR>
discussions: low volume, high density, and high quality.<BR>
<BR>
If that sounds interesting, send a blank message to<BR>
xboat-subscribe@egroups.com.<BR>
<BR>
> If you think we're bad, Duchovny-l hasn'y mentioned David Duchovny or the<BR>
> The X-Files in living memory.  But we have great fun.<BR>
> --<BR>
<BR>
That's awesome; I think the TML is a great place for fun, a broader<BR>
shared experience, and a thriving online community.  I'm not trying to<BR>
duplicate that.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks much,<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
- ---<BR>
NEW MODERATED GURPS TRAVELLER LIST!<BR>
For a moderated, high density, low volume, GURPS Traveller discussion,<BR>
send a blank message to xboat-subscribe@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:33:34 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Anything interesting?<BR>
<BR>
In an effort to avoid the flamewar over "T5 vs. GT", I have<BR>
skipped/skimmed over digests 1630 to 1640.  Yes, it's been going on for<BR>
well over a dozen digests worth!  Pathetic.  Well, I was wondering if any<BR>
kind sould could tell me if there's anything worth looking at in there<BR>
before I waste my time and emotional restraint looking through them.<BR>
<BR>
I'd like to suggest that folks learn the highly useful skill of ignoring<BR>
idiodicy.  It does wonders for the blood pressure.<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:30:11 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Forget him Kiri!  Sedate ME!!  :)<BR>
> <BR>
Kenji enjoys things you don't.  ;)  We already had that conversation long<BR>
ago.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:31:00 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
On  2 Jan 00 at 23:19, Kiri wrote, in "Traveller-digest V1999<BR>
#1639":<BR>
<BR>
> Jory, Family (note the capital F) is how queer/les/bi/gay/trans people refer<BR>
> to themselves, especially in mixed company.  It doesn't mean anything about<BR>
> anyone else not being able to be family with anyone else, it's just a code<BR>
> phrase that people have retained because it's still useful.  =)<BR>
<BR>
So, does that mean that if you are straight, but supportive of<BR>
people's freedom to choose a queer/les/bi/gay/trans lifestyle, that<BR>
you are a Friend of the Family? :)<BR>
<BR>
Just curious,<BR>
Jason<BR>
<BR>
=============================<BR>
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV<BR>
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375<BR>
Internet Address:  jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us<BR>
<BR>
Most computer virus and email alerts are hoaxes.  For more info, check out:<BR>
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm<BR>
==============================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:35:34 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
><BR>
> > And please, can we stop using words like "despise" on this list?<BR>
><BR>
> I'm not sure how to take your comment. Should I simply shut up, and not<BR>
> comment on something which I feel is relevant to the discussion at hand?<BR>
> Should I censor my opinions because there's the possibility that someone<BR>
> might be unhappy because I hate something that they like? Is it the word<BR>
> itself? Would "d*sp*s*" be better, then? Or should I soften my statements,<BR>
> and in doing so, make them lies?<BR>
<BR>
Chris<BR>
<BR>
Well, it was a general reference to the kind of discussion we so often get into<BR>
in this list, but I took your quote as an example (and it's a pretty weak one -<BR>
we both know we've seen far worse even in the past few days). I have a general<BR>
problem with using this kind of extreme language to discuss a game. When it gets<BR>
to something really worth despising, like racism or nazism, what word do you use<BR>
then? If someone really dislikes TNE (and I'll freely admit I dislike it), or<BR>
Chris Foss's art, or whatever, fine. Everyone has opinions. But if we're going<BR>
to start despising illustrations, well ...<BR>
<BR>
The other point is that if we start despising and hating we'd better be prepared<BR>
to be despised and hated right back. Which is how this list keeps getting into<BR>
flamefests. Personally, I'd prefer we moderate our language and maybe we'd all<BR>
get along better.<BR>
<BR>
Probably someone will now dig up a post where I said I despised and hated TNE.<BR>
Dang it.<BR>
<BR>
M<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:31:44 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Anything interesting?<BR>
<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> well over a dozen digests worth!  Pathetic.  Well, I was wondering if <BR>
>any kind sould could tell me if there's anything worth looking at in <BR>
>there before I waste my time and emotional restraint looking through <BR>
>them.<BR>
<BR>
It seems like my song parodies have been well received...<BR>
<BR>
> I'd like to suggest that folks learn the highly useful skill of ignoring<BR>
> idiodicy.  It does wonders for the blood pressure.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, wait... I think that they classify as "idiocy" :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:30:54 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Turbolifts<BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>><BR>
At least if the grav plates in a corridor fail, you are not<BR>
	trapped.<BR>
>>>>>>><BR>
I think the lift shaft can be designed with this in mind. Just like<BR>
an elevator shaft, the lift shaft can have recessed ladder rungs<BR>
and escape doors on the car. The rungs may not even be needed,<BR>
if a grav plate failure leaves the lift shaft in zero G (which it should<BR>
be in anyway, right?).<BR>
<BR>
Ian again:<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
>IMO, aboard a warship, you should be able to get from <BR>
>anywhere  to anywhere on the ship, including the inside of the lift<BR>
>shafts, even if all ship's power is out.<BR>
<BR>
	Always a good plan.  If powered doors loose power, how easy<BR>
	is it for crew to open them?  I figure that any competant<BR>
	Mechanic with tools can open such a door in a couple of<BR>
	minutes (faster with power tools).<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
How about a panel beside each iris valve, containing a handwheel for<BR>
cranking the thing open? With a socket for a rotary power tool,<BR>
so a mechanic (or someone else with a tool kit) can open it faster.<BR>
<BR>
You'd have to consider security, though. How do you lock or unlock<BR>
an iris valve in a secure fashion with no power? Keys?<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:39:44 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Bailey wrote:<BR>
...<BR>
<BR>
> Are you tired of personal exchanges like the one below?<BR>
><BR>
> Join a MODERATED GURPS Traveller List with an emphasis on low volume and<BR>
> high quality!<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
... and attaches an entirely reasonable email from Chris Seamans in response to<BR>
something I wrote.<BR>
<BR>
Stuart<BR>
I don't think either Chris or I felt that was a personal exchange, and I resent it<BR>
being held up as any reason to leave the list. Was that the best you could find?<BR>
Mark<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:39:24 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: <sigh> Do I dare?  Downport.com update<BR>
<BR>
I know this is just a little too topical at the moment, but I can't help it.<BR>
Just before Christmas I promised Tim Reynolds that I would be publishing his<BR>
editorial on Downport.com today.  I held off announcing it until now, but<BR>
here goes.<BR>
<BR>
A new editorial has been posted on Downport.com at<BR>
http://www.downport.com/point/ for your reading enjoyment.  Tim Reynolds has<BR>
chosen to give us his vision of what could be done with the T5 "Life<BR>
Pursuits" option.  Come read it at your leisure and feel free to add your<BR>
two cents to the discussion.<BR>
<BR>
Downport.com editorials are written by Traveller players about subjects that<BR>
interest them, and posted biweekly on the site.  We are always interested in<BR>
hearing your comments about the articles and will gladly publish rebuttals<BR>
to current articles and new editorial articles that you submit.<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:41:57 -0600<BR>
From: "shadowcat" <meow@advancenet.net><BR>
Subject: Traveller Filk Fragments and Twisted ideas<BR>
<BR>
Heres some twisted titles for somebody to take and run with<BR>
<BR>
"Oh Were banned from X-Boat everyone, banned from X-boat just <BR>
for having a little fun:<BR>
"We logged in for just a little flamewar or two"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Shadowcat AKA Kevin Walsh<BR>
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf<BR>
ADD/ADHD Advocate<BR>
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:52:01 -0600<BR>
From: "shadowcat" <meow@advancenet.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Village People as PC's<BR>
<BR>
Let me help.  Chris, can you picture the Village People as a buncha<BR>
Traveller PCs?  Or maybe as representatives of Known Space?<BR>
<BR>
Nah, were doing worse right now on IRC<BR>
CmdrX is running "The Spinward Marches Road Show"<BR>
which is a variant on my all time favorite Amber Zone<BR>
<BR>
In this game the players are members of the Neo-Celtic Heavy <BR>
Metal Band Tir Nan Og, on a Tour of the Spinward Marches.<BR>
<BR>
the bagpipe/heavy metal version of Wipeout must be priceless.<BR>
The band plays a really wierd mix of old Terran music and whatever<BR>
else comes to mind at the time. <BR>
<BR>
Were looking for a couple more vict... oops players for sunday <BR>
nights/<BR>
<BR>
theres a writeup on CmdrX's page about the whole campaign.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Shadowcat AKA Kevin Walsh<BR>
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf<BR>
ADD/ADHD Advocate<BR>
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:55:24 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> Chris<BR>
><BR>
> Well, it was a general reference to the kind of discussion we so<BR>
> often get into in this list, but I took your quote as an example (and it's<BR>
> a pretty weak one - we both know we've seen far worse even in the<BR>
> past few days). I have a general problem with using this kind of<BR>
> extreme language to discuss a game. When it gets to something<BR>
> really worth despising, like racism or nazism, what word do you use<BR>
> then? If someone really dislikes TNE (and I'll freely admit I dislike it),<BR>
> or Chris Foss's art, or whatever, fine. Everyone has opinions. But if<BR>
> we're going to start despising illustrations, well ...<BR>
<BR>
Well, no, when it comes to things like racism and nazism I do my best to<BR>
educate and do my part to help get rid of such sicknesses when I see them<BR>
around me in a way that is harmful. I won't get on the TML and say I despise<BR>
them.<BR>
<BR>
Besides, where does it end? If it works in the "negative", it must work in<BR>
the "positive". If I really, really, really, enjoy BITS 101 Rendezvous, can<BR>
I say that I "love" it? What if someone who really didn't like it becomes<BR>
unhappy because they don't enjoy it?<BR>
<BR>
To go on to the case of Legate Legion, what we have is a case of somebody<BR>
who has strong opinions about something, and expressed them in a way which<BR>
was offensive to *everybody*. His opinions are not at fault. I would venture<BR>
to say that if he simply said that he despised GT no flame war would have<BR>
erupted, or, at best maybe something of a skirmish.<BR>
<BR>
He really went above and beyond all that, turning his own personal problems<BR>
with his local GURPS fans into a metaphor for the gaming industry, one in<BR>
which Evil Stevie becomes the Antichrist because a few chuckleheads stole<BR>
his Star Trek miniatures.<BR>
<BR>
For what it's worth, I see a vast gulf of difference between stating that I<BR>
don't like an artist's work and saying that I want to see a company burned<BR>
to the ground, all of its books burned, and its employees dead.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe I'm just old fashioned that way.<BR>
<BR>
> The other point is that if we start despising and hating we'd better<BR>
>be prepared to be despised and hated right back.<BR>
<BR>
Woah, don't get too far ahead of yourself there! I honestly feel that it was<BR>
clear in my post that I wasn't engaged in the activity of despising anybody.<BR>
<BR>
>Which is how this list keeps getting into flamefests.<BR>
<BR>
Well, no, when we get into flamefests it's not because people hold opinions<BR>
concerning what they like and don't like. People do overstep the bounds of<BR>
good taste. Legate Legion did, and there's no doubt about it. I don't feel<BR>
that I did, and I don't feel it's fair to say that I did.<BR>
<BR>
>Personally, I'd prefer we moderate our language and maybe we'd<BR>
>all get along better.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I'd prefer if people could look at a post and see opinions for<BR>
what they are: opinions.<BR>
<BR>
> Probably someone will now dig up a post where I said I despised<BR>
>and hated TNE. Dang it.<BR>
<BR>
Nah, I wouldn't have an interest in that. My point is simply this: maybe we<BR>
should moderate our own actions as to how we *read* these posts.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1650<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1651<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com<BR>
Re: Canon Drift<BR>
Excessive volume<BR>
Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
RE: Multi-Genre games<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: What comes next for GT?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Sable (Was Re: Keyboard kills & misc)<BR>
Fire Fusion and Steel edition identification?<BR>
Re: Traveller Versions - What I Liked and Did Not Like<BR>
RE: Multi-Genre games<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems <BR>
Re: People who hate SJG <BR>
Re: A very happy New Year <BR>
Re: A very happy New Year <BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav) <BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:55:59 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Are you a GURPS Traveller player?<BR>
<BR>
Yep.<BR>
<BR>
> Are you looking for intelligent discussion about GT and anything not<BR>
> specific to CT/MT/TNE/T4?<BR>
<BR>
Nope. I'm looking for the most unintelligent Traveller discussion possible.<BR>
I want to *siiiiiiing*! I want to laugh so hard I blow soda out my nose and<BR>
onto the keyboard! I want to bicker with other persons!<BR>
<BR>
I want to talk about Penguins! I want to talk about East Coast Traveller<BR>
meetings, regardless of style. I want to say, "I don't like Foss,<BR>
goshdarnit!" I want to read posts about the Astronaut Pen.<BR>
<BR>
No go in Mexico, baby!<BR>
<BR>
Basically, I want to hang out in the ghetto that is Traveller, and savor the<BR>
quasi-ethnic flavor of its fans!<BR>
<BR>
> Are you tired of personal exchanges like the one below?<BR>
<BR>
Not at all! In fact, I'm proud to be made the poster boy for what's wrong<BR>
with the TML!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:01:19 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Canon Drift<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
Thanks for the post. Let me expand on my previous comments. I agree with you on<BR>
the need for new races - actually pre-TNE I thought Traveller could do with a<BR>
couple of new major races, and I remember at the time thinking the Vampire Fleets,<BR>
shorn of virus, would have been a pretty cool addition.<BR>
<BR>
I think if we look through the new races all of us are going to have likes and<BR>
dislikes. My main general main issues with the new minor races are:<BR>
- - uncertainty as to where they sit with canon<BR>
- - lack of integration with any traveller timeline<BR>
<BR>
On the first issue, is it in the nature of the agreement with Marc that the new<BR>
races will also be available for, and used within, T5. I'm not sure how to say<BR>
this, but is the background "blessed" in the sense that it will be available to<BR>
other Traveller publishers?<BR>
<BR>
On the second, back in the "good old days"of GDW, up to and including TNE, new<BR>
additions to the Traveller canon would be further embedded through entries in TNS.<BR>
The SJG TNS doesn't, unless I'm missing something, mention any of the new races<BR>
(actually I think SJG could do GT a real service by significantly increasing the<BR>
throughput on TNS, back to the old JTAS level of 5 or 6 entries per issue - this<BR>
dribble of single items isn't quite the same). I'd suggest salting some TNS<BR>
entries with background items about the new races. In fact since you presumably<BR>
know which of your races (what's the generic term - Pulvoids?) will be in the<BR>
future volumes, you could start generating some interest in them the same way.<BR>
<BR>
Just as a side note - is SJG eliciting input for TNS? It strikes me that this is<BR>
an area where TML members could help ...<BR>
<BR>
M<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 14:03:36 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Excessive volume<BR>
<BR>
Guys, I'm sure the flame wars, and other stuff are fun. But I sat down<BR>
last night to discover that over 400 posts had been made in less than<BR>
24 hours and most of them are stuff that has no place on the list.<BR>
<BR>
And even elimiating the more *obvious* threads, there's still *way* too<BR>
much stuff with low content. <BR>
<BR>
Could you all *please* either take it to private mail or quit rehashing<BR>
old fights? <BR>
<BR>
Just consider this. When *I* start complaining about volume, the list<BR>
may well be in danger of getting dumped by a lot of folks. After all,<BR>
I've got a *lot* more "free time" than most folks.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:44:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> What brought this on?<BR>
><BR>
> A couple of comments made in another thread. I was just curious about it,<BR>
> because I've seen this line of thought come up on several lists. It usually<BR>
> starts off "The problem with so-and-so system is that it encourages people<BR>
> to play the same old character" (as it did this time). Or alternatively, "I<BR>
> have this player in my group who always plays the same character -- what can<BR>
> I do about this?" as if this is a big problem.<BR>
<BR>
I don't see that as a problem as long as it's "rational". That is, if<BR>
the player *knows* that a particular adventure is going to be "high<BR>
court" and "intrigue/subtlety", but *still* want to play in it using a<BR>
"brick" who is as subtle as a demolition charge, you need to have a<BR>
talk with him. Because he won't have fun, and he'll drive the rerst of<BR>
the group *nuts*. <BR>
<BR>
> The common response is something like "some people are just bad<BR>
> roleplayers," as if bad roleplaying/acting = bad gaming sessions. I was<BR>
> interested in seeing other enlightened individuals thoughts on the matter<BR>
> (and this list is has some of the most enlightened members on it that I am<BR>
> aware of).<BR>
<BR>
Poor roleplaying is generally tolerable. "Bad" roleplaying is when<BR>
someone takes a character that is supposed to act in a certain way (eg<BR>
a "paladin", "samurai", some "clerics") and then proceeds to have them<BR>
act in a manner totally at odds with the "required" behavior. <BR>
<BR>
Such folks tend to be munchkins who only took the character for the<BR>
advantages and didn't want to deal with the *dis*advantages.<BR>
<BR>
A lesser annoyance is folks who really *should* stick to one "type" of<BR>
character and *don't*. Luckily this isn't *quite* as bad in Traveller<BR>
as it is in games with "stronger" character classes.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:13:54 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
Ahh, well I can make an exception in your case.  <grin><BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 4:30 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > Forget him Kiri!  Sedate ME!!  :)<BR>
> ><BR>
> Kenji enjoys things you don't.  ;)  We already had that conversation long<BR>
> ago.<BR>
><BR>
> Kiri<BR>
><BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
**<BR>
> Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
> tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
><BR>
> "If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
> If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
> Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
> Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
> Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
> Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:05:19 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Jan 00, at 11:53, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
> >I've never used them, but they look like an exceptionally <BR>
> >painful form  of slow torture. Use Aftermath - it's only slow <BR>
> >torture :)<BR>
> <BR>
> Mmm Aftermath:  "OK, guys, let's think about it.  Is there<BR>
> anything at all that we can do to avoid a firefight?  Because<BR>
> you all know that if we get into one, that's all we'll<BR>
> accomplish this session."<BR>
<BR>
Actually I was joking. We used Aftermath for years and found that once <BR>
everyone knew how it worked it moved along just fine.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:05:19 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Jan 00, at 11:31, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 02:43 PM 1/2/2000 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I remember the rumor mill saying that KS was pursuing the computers upon<BR>
> >which web pages were posted... I don't know about that, but I do know<BR>
> >that there were several lawsuits by Palladium Games/ K. S. over TM<BR>
> >infringement and copyright infringement, reported in Protoculture<BR>
> >Addicts.<BR>
> <BR>
> ISTR a time when there were several RPG mags in print that KS sent out an<BR>
> order to the editors demanding approval of any article mentioning his<BR>
> products, including *reviews*.<BR>
> <BR>
> I can't remember if this was in Shadis or Pyramid, but the editor shared<BR>
> this information, and just said that they had no intention of complying,<BR>
> and would simply drop *all* mention of Palladium in the 'zine.  Ads<BR>
> included. -- <BR>
<BR>
If you look at the submission guides printed in GDW's Challenge mag <BR>
you'll find that they state that Challenge won't accept submissions for <BR>
any Palladium Games product by request of PG publishers. When I first <BR>
read this, before I was on the net or aware of some of KS/PG's other <BR>
behaviour I thought this was pretty stink.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:05:19 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Jan 00, at 10:24, Kelly St.Clair wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:47:06 +1300, "Frank G. Pitt"<BR>
> <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote: <BR>
> <BR>
> >> I have a 1st edition AD&D DM's Guide (1979 printing, the year of my<BR>
> >> birth)<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Now I feel old.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I remember waiting and waiting for that to come out...<BR>
> <BR>
> I had the same experience yesterday.  I was down at my local FLG(and<BR>
> comics)S when I overheard two boys (of the sort that usually come in to<BR>
> buy Pokemon).  One of them was explaining to the other that a certain<BR>
> comic was about the "old OLD Star Wars"... referring, apparently, to the<BR>
> movie that I saw in 1977 when I was about their age.<BR>
> <BR>
> Three months to go before I'm 30 and I'm already a fossil.<BR>
<BR>
Yep. I thought that one was allowed to make 30 before one became <BR>
fossilised, but it doesn't seem that way in these degenerate days.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:11:25 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> If I really, really, really, enjoy BITS 101 Rendezvous, can<BR>
> I say that I "love" it?<BR>
<BR>
It depends what you're doing to it :-)<BR>
m<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:15:16 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: What comes next for GT?<BR>
<BR>
Boris Cibic wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>   A question, what comes next for GT?  I know about GT: Imperial Navy, GT:<BR>
> Starports, GT: Starships,GT: Modular Cutter, GT: Solomani Rim and the<BR>
> continuation of Alien Race serial.  BUT WHAT REALLY BIG is planned?<BR>
<BR>
Doug already mentioned a few times that he's working on GT:Ground Forces. The<BR>
SJG wishlist also mentions GT:Corsairs. Ah, pirates ... now there's a subject<BR>
...<BR>
M<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 14:05:14 -0800<BR>
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 04:59 PM 1/3/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Yes, I know. My group played Aftermeth for years back in the 80s.<BR>
<BR>
Is Aftermeth the game one plays in rehab? ;)<BR>
<BR>
I imagine that there is a d12 involved on the step chart.<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com<BR>
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com<BR>
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com<BR>
  IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+<BR>
_________________________________________________________ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 16:25:51 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
Mark Watson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Stuart Bailey wrote:<BR>
> ...<BR>
> <BR>
> > Are you tired of personal exchanges like the one below?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Join a MODERATED GURPS Traveller List with an emphasis on low volume and<BR>
> > high quality!<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> ... and attaches an entirely reasonable email from Chris Seamans in response to<BR>
> something I wrote.<BR>
<BR>
Exactly. This (the TML) is the right place to post that message, and I'm<BR>
sure you'll respond to this and we'll go back and forth...blah blah<BR>
blah....that's what the TML is for!  And I support that.  All I said is<BR>
you will NOT see that or even this kind of post on xboat@egroups.com. <BR>
Which means that when you see the [xboat] in the subject of a post it<BR>
will hopefully be worth your time to read it...which is more than I can<BR>
say for this post (meaning my post).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
If that sounds interesting:<BR>
<BR>
send a blank message to xboat-subscribe@egroups.com<BR>
 <BR>
> Stuart<BR>
> I don't think either Chris or I felt that was a personal exchange, and I resent it<BR>
> being held up as any reason to leave the list. Was that the best you could find?<BR>
> Mark<BR>
<BR>
Sorry if I offended you.  And no, I really wasn't looking for the best.  <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks much,<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
- ---<BR>
NEW MODERATED GURPS TRAVELLER LIST!<BR>
For a moderated, high density, low volume, GURPS Traveller discussion,<BR>
send a blank message to xboat-subscribe@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 14:19:30 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
I certainly don't want to go back and sift through past messages to get the<BR>
exact context of this citation, but that<BR>
looks more like a terrorist *question* to me. Are those forbidden by<BR>
California law also?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
To: traveller mailing aa list <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Cc: <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 1:06 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> >Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
> >At 02:08 AM 1/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> >>    Is it so bad, that I want to see the blood of every GURPS<BR>
> >>player, outside of their body, in vast amounts?<BR>
> >Send me your address.  Now.  You are making terrorist threats<BR>
> >and I will *not* stand for it.<BR>
><BR>
> My understanding of the present state of the law -- which may be<BR>
> wrong -- is that if he's making terroristic threats in violation<BR>
> of California law, it doesn't matter where he's sending them<BR>
> from, as long as they are coming somehow into California.  This<BR>
> is an even better case than the California adult web site owners<BR>
> who were prosecuted in Tennessee for violating Tennessee's<BR>
> obscenity laws.<BR>
><BR>
> Doug, why don't you call the DA?  This looks like an interesting<BR>
> case.<BR>
><BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
> http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 18:45:33 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Sable (Was Re: Keyboard kills & misc)<BR>
<BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:35:49 -0500<BR>
> From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net><BR>
> Subject: Re: Keyboard kills & misc<BR>
> <BR>
> At 02:52 PM 12/29/99 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > >Nah, Sable is a mercenary.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >(Mike Grell's comic series from the eighties)<BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >And here I was thinking I was the only person to own a complete John Sable,<BR>
> >Freelance set of Comics. There must be two of us in the world :)<BR>
> <BR>
> Nope.  There's three.  And the TV series that was done never gave the<BR>
> comics justice...<BR>
> <BR>
> Kurt Feltenberger<BR>
> kurt@blazenet.net<BR>
> Morrow Project Campaign http://www.sol-3.net<BR>
> WT-L Support Pages http://www.sol-3.net/wt-l<BR>
> <BR>
> "To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>
>       may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>
> ~Stephen Decatur<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
	Ok, well four. I'm still catching up on the digests. But seeing more<BR>
fans make me feel good the vast collection in my bedroom. <BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
	Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
	tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 14:27:22 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Fire Fusion and Steel edition identification?<BR>
<BR>
So yesterday I stopped by Gamescape in SF to get some stuff to dump<BR>
into the Traveller hopper in my brain, and picked up a used Fire Fusion<BR>
and Steel, as well as the GT book and First In.<BR>
<BR>
I seem to recall people mentioning a second edition of FF&S. The one<BR>
I picked up has a 1993 copyright date and no edition identification,<BR>
so I presume it's a first edition. <BR>
<BR>
Can anyone confirm this for me, and tell me what I'm missing out on <BR>
by not having a second edition FF&S?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks in advance.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:32:05 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Versions - What I Liked and Did Not Like<BR>
<BR>
scharlto@ifsna.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I was thinking about all of the argument and dissention, and I<BR>
> decided to pontificate.  Ignore if you are easily bored...<BR>
><BR>
> <snip<BR>
<BR>
I broadly agree with your list. Some points on CT/MT:<BR>
- - the MT task system was originally a DGP bolt-on to CT. My guess is<BR>
that alot of CT/MT hybrid systems are basically CT with the task system<BR>
bolted on. Beyond that, I think the key differentiators for MT were the<BR>
integrated vehicle/starship design system, and the significant fleshing<BR>
out of the Imperial universe which happened at the same time as MT.<BR>
Before, there were these islands of "land grants" - the Marches, the<BR>
Rim, the Deep, Far Frontiers, the Expanses plus the stuff that was<BR>
decanonised by Atlas of the Imperium (Paranoia, JG, G1). Afterwards, and<BR>
as a result of the work already done by DGP, you had more of a view of<BR>
the Imperium as a whole.<BR>
<BR>
The bad thing that really didn't get fixed till T4 (actually TNE also<BR>
fixed it, but TNE is another story) was the discrepancy between enhanced<BR>
character generation and basic. If you allowed enhanced generation you<BR>
got/get characters with a whole bunch more skills and a more interesting<BR>
background, but which took longer to generate, so players get pushed<BR>
into the 4 main careers and all the issues of it taking so long to<BR>
generate characters got exacerbated. Also because the number of<BR>
available skills didn't go up quite in line with the number of skills<BR>
the enhanced characters were likely to get, the skill mixes ended up<BR>
being alot more similar between the careers (I seem to remember Frank<BR>
Chadwick pointing this out on one of the Genie debates).<BR>
<BR>
M<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:49:32 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
> >Three months to go before I'm 30 and I'm already a fossil.<BR>
><BR>
> Ha!  My 9-year old niece has never seen an encyclopedia.  To her, the idea<BR>
> of looking up something in a big book is as silly as the thought of<BR>
> prop-driven airliners were to us.<BR>
<BR>
Damn it !<BR>
I _worked_ on prop-driven airliners when I was in the RNZAF !<BR>
Will you lot stop with this making me feel old, already ?<BR>
<BR>
Mind you, they were turbo-prop, and the oldest F27 Friendships still flying,<BR>
and the Andover's (military version of the HS148 )were tactical aircraft<BR>
that could land in places jets couldn't reach.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, those were the days, the whine of the APU louder than the engines,<BR>
learning the marshalling signal for a plane that can squat, cricket on the<BR>
oval, tea and biscuits on the lawn...<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 14:47:03 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:57:28 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
>>>Hell, *everything* tastes like chicken. I bet Droyne taste like chicken!<BR>
><BR>
>>Actually Droyne tastes like Rattlesnake.   (So I've heard)<BR>
><BR>
>but rattlesnake tastes like....ah hell! <wink><BR>
<BR>
At a time when European settlers were starting to set up homesteads<BR>
nearby, two Native American were out hunting.  As they went along they came<BR>
accross a chicken.  The one who had never seen one before was asking about<BR>
them and the other replied "They taste just like antelope".<BR>
<BR>
(Lets see how well this joke goes in e-mail....)<BR>
<BR>
(What do humans taste like?  Rumour is they taste like pork).<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:43:34 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems <BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 1/1/00 2:58:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
> jimpeta@primus.com.au writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> <<  Or the Australian one:<BR>
>      "Shut up ya b*stard!" Whack! Whack! (sound of five cell Mag-Lite hitting<BR>
>  kidneys)<BR>
>  <BR>
>  <BR>
>   >><BR>
> <BR>
> Happens in the states too. Just make sure no one is videotaping it...:-)<BR>
<BR>
"Oh, Rodney...  Smile, please, so we know you're okay..."<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:43:41 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: People who hate SJG <BR>
<BR>
> Nothing is totally useless, unless you are talking about Microsoft Windows.<BR>
> :) <BR>
<BR>
Windows isn't useless.  It lets some people get an 8 hour paycheck for a half <BR>
hour job.<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:43:46 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year <BR>
<BR>
> > As of 0000, PST I win.  Fuck Cancer!!<BR>
> <BR>
> Ok, now your assignment is to make it to 2100.... :-)<BR>
<BR>
I'm gonna write in Doug's name in the first Luna City mayorial race.<BR>
<BR>
Hear that, Doug?  Yer gonna be a civil servant!!<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:43:56 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year <BR>
<BR>
> At 05:20 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> >Umm..I'd like to report a keyboard kill here...Thanks a lot Mike..<BR>
> <BR>
> How many points?<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of which, how many do I get for getting Walt???<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:44:03 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav) <BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 1/2/00 1:18:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
> wombat@premier.net writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> << In response to those who have made personal attacks on Evil Stevie<BR>
>  himself, I ask five questions:<BR>
>   >><BR>
> <BR>
> Bravo! I too have met him twice. Once at I CON back in the 80's and last year <BR>
> I volunteered to work his booth at the GAMA convention. He's a grade A mensch <BR>
> (Yiddish for man). I also met Gene Seebolt and David Pulver briefly at GAMA. <BR>
> Also good folks...<BR>
<BR>
I met him once, at one of the Earthcons in Cleveland.  Strange, warped little <BR>
guy, our Stevie.<BR>
<BR>
I liked him.<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:50:50 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Please, parties concerned, let's let the excitement of death threats drop,<BR>
and not make fools of ourselves with the Normal People.  If DAs qualify as<BR>
such.  I'd like to say again, to you especially, Doug, that I've still got<BR>
an email from you, speaking specifically about me, that, given your<BR>
frequently mentioned military experience and access to various sortsa<BR>
guns, is a hell of a lot more credible threat than someone who goes by the<BR>
handle "Legate Legion" throwing a hissy-fit at a generic group of people<BR>
around the world.  Really, I respect other people's paranoia as I hope<BR>
They'll respect mine, but this seems to me like a Silly Error in the<BR>
making.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> >Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
> >At 02:08 AM 1/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> >>    Is it so bad, that I want to see the blood of every GURPS<BR>
> >>player, outside of their body, in vast amounts?<BR>
> >Send me your address.  Now.  You are making terrorist threats <BR>
> >and I will *not* stand for it.<BR>
> <BR>
> My understanding of the present state of the law -- which may be<BR>
> wrong -- is that if he's making terroristic threats in violation<BR>
> of California law, it doesn't matter where he's sending them<BR>
> from, as long as they are coming somehow into California.  This<BR>
> is an even better case than the California adult web site owners<BR>
> who were prosecuted in Tennessee for violating Tennessee's<BR>
> obscenity laws.  <BR>
> <BR>
> Doug, why don't you call the DA?  This looks like an interesting<BR>
> case.<BR>
> <BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
> http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1651<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1652</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1652<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
Listing Your Website<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Fire Fusion and Steel edition identification?<BR>
Re: Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com<BR>
Re: Traveller Filk Fragments and Twisted ideas <BR>
Re: Popular Liberation Front of Classic Traveller<BR>
Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
Re: Fire Fusion and Steel edition identification?<BR>
Re: Gunnery<BR>
Re: traveller poll!<BR>
Re: Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com<BR>
Re: jurisdiction issues in the Imperium<BR>
RE: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Common Law<BR>
Humanitarianism<BR>
Re: Popular Liberation Front of Classic Traveller<BR>
Re: Village People as PC's<BR>
Universal Law Profile<BR>
Re: Y2K Buggery-- NOISE<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Galaxy Quest!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:52:15 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Yes, I know. My group played Aftermeth for years back in the 80s. IMO <BR>
<BR>
Really?  How ironic!  Me and my friends just did meth back in the '80s;<BR>
_now_ it's Aftermeth.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:56:04 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, let Jory go first.  I don't need sedation; I've got the soothing<BR>
vibes of yammering preppie prats returning from cash-sodden vacations to<BR>
unwind to.  I'm so okay now.  Sorry for mouthing off.  It won't happen<BR>
again.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Forget him Kiri!  Sedate ME!!  :)<BR>
> ___________________________________________________________<BR>
>  J-Man<BR>
>  ICQ# 2843475<BR>
>  New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
>  Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
>  Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
> ___________________________________________________________<BR>
> <BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 4:09 PM<BR>
> Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > At 06:01 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > >You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
> > > >you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
> > > >Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > Me me me ME!!!  Can I do it?  PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE?  I've been good!<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:55:05 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Listing Your Website<BR>
<BR>
I have recently joined the Open Directory Project (ODP) as an editor for the<BR>
Traveller heading.  There were ten or so listings, badly out of date, when I<BR>
found it.  I have updated the listings and have added a few entries, such as<BR>
Marc's new site and my own (of course).  Rather than plod along adding sites<BR>
as I think of them, I thought I might enlist the help of web slingers on<BR>
this list.  If you have a web site that you would like to have cataloged on<BR>
the largest web directory project in known space, go to this URL<BR>
 http://dmoz.org/Games/Roleplaying/Systems/Traveller/ ) and see if you are<BR>
listed.  If not, click the Add URL link and follow the instruction.  Your<BR>
submission will be reviewed and added to the directory listings as soon as<BR>
possible.<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:57:02 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
Huh?  Uh, well, sedation sure as hell ain't one of em.  Fast drug for me!<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Forget him Kiri!  Sedate ME!!  :)<BR>
> > <BR>
> Kenji enjoys things you don't.  ;)  We already had that conversation long<BR>
> ago.<BR>
> <BR>
> Kiri<BR>
> ******************************************************************************<BR>
> Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
> tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
> <BR>
> "If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
> If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
> Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
> Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
> Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
> Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:59:46 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>I think T4 was right to try and project a different look for the Milieu 0<BR>
>background. Having the same ship designs and shapes around in Milieu 0 to<BR>
those<BR>
>1000 years later would have been daft. Whether Foss's determinedly<BR>
asymmetric<BR>
>designs were the most appropriate is maybe another<BR>
>matter, but I'm generally OK with T4 on aesthetic grounds. The issue was<BR>
always<BR>
>the content and the quality thereof.<BR>
>And please, can we stop using words like "despise" on this list?<BR>
>Mark Watson, markw@antares.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
    I like Foss, his big, spooky spaceships just hanging over a landscape<BR>
strikes a chord in me. I'm a huge fan of Ron Cobb, he draws them the way I<BR>
see them in my warped imagination. (Sort of industrial looking.) If you can,<BR>
get a hold of the Alien movie book that features some of Cobbs designs, it<BR>
has a set of standard industrial icons for things like "Hard Hat Area" and<BR>
"Low Gravity Area." Really cool.<BR>
    Mr Foss does let us down on one point though, his ships are too big and<BR>
Traveller is about little ships, so thats the beef I have with the choice of<BR>
his art. It doesn't stop it being good art though.<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 17:05:17 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fire Fusion and Steel edition identification?<BR>
<BR>
Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> So yesterday I stopped by Gamescape in SF to get some stuff to dump<BR>
> into the Traveller hopper in my brain, and picked up a used Fire Fusion<BR>
> and Steel, as well as the GT book and First In.<BR>
> <BR>
> I seem to recall people mentioning a second edition of FF&S. The one<BR>
> I picked up has a 1993 copyright date and no edition identification,<BR>
> so I presume it's a first edition.<BR>
<BR>
If it's GDW, it's FF&S.  If it's Imperium Games, it's FF&S2.<BR>
> <BR>
> Can anyone confirm this for me, and tell me what I'm missing out on<BR>
> by not having a second edition FF&S?<BR>
<BR>
Since I only own FF&S2, I can't say for sure what the differences might<BR>
be (although I suspect that FF&S from GDW has fewer errata).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:00:58 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Not at all! In fact, I'm proud to be made the poster boy for what's wrong<BR>
> with the TML!<BR>
<BR>
Great sig line just begging to be used, right there.  Go for it!  Who am I<BR>
to discourage you?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:57:48 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Filk Fragments and Twisted ideas <BR>
<BR>
> Heres some twisted titles for somebody to take and run with<BR>
> <BR>
> "Oh Were banned from X-Boat everyone, banned from X-boat just <BR>
> for having a little fun:<BR>
> "We logged in for just a little flamewar or two"<BR>
<BR>
"But they won't let the place become a zoo!!"<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 17:56:57 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Popular Liberation Front of Classic Traveller<BR>
<BR>
At 09:24 pm 1/2/00 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>On 01/02/00 at 09:22 PM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>>So Siblings, there aren't just the 6 later heresies...<BR>
><BR>
>>MT, TNE, T4, T4.1/T5, GT and Eris the Heretic's TU.<BR>
><BR>
>Ah, it's good to be me! <g><BR>
><BR>
>Eris,<BR>
>    sometimes I wonder what my bosses would think if they ever did<BR>
>    search on my name<BR>
<BR>
	*shudder* I know I'd be trying to 'splain how it's all just a game,<BR>
really, ... images of the threads about detecting and targeting<BR>
objects in space, nuclear contact vs detlaser, stealth, ECM,<BR>
destroying cities, biowarfare ....<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 18:00:31 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
At 11:01 pm 1/2/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>I'm somewhat troubled by the rumblings surrounding a split of the<BR>
TML.  The<BR>
>Traveller community is relatively small as fan bases go.  This forum<BR>
has<BR>
>about a hundred voices at any one time.  That number is large enough<BR>
to get<BR>
>a great mix of ideas and opinions, yet not unruly.  Anything smaller<BR>
tends<BR>
>to limit the gene / idea pool.  You also get an Us vs. Them thing<BR>
going with<BR>
>two competing lists, which is counter-productive.  Certainly these<BR>
flame<BR>
>wars are not terribly helpful, but I feel they are a necessary evil<BR>
that you<BR>
>accept when you bring so many great thinkers together.  The benefits<BR>
of<BR>
>having this combined forum are legion (pardon the pun).  For one, we<BR>
have<BR>
>the power to sway the publishers.  That power is damaged by personal<BR>
attacks<BR>
>on people like Loren, but you have to concede that he follows this<BR>
list<BR>
>precisely because it is a good gauge of the state of the game.  We<BR>
are also<BR>
>a good pool of talent from which Loren and Marc and others can draw.<BR>
 In the<BR>
>past year or so I have seen four or more messages from Loren seeking<BR>
someone<BR>
>to make a submission of some sort on short notice.  I won't belabor<BR>
the<BR>
>point.  I'll close by saying that the smaller "subcommittee" forums<BR>
that<BR>
>come and go serve a purpose, too.  I don't mind seeing several going<BR>
at a<BR>
>time.  They are also a sign of a healthy Traveller community :-)<BR>
But the<BR>
>combined clout that this list currently enjoys is not something we<BR>
should<BR>
>consider throwing away.<BR>
<BR>
	Hear Hear! Unlike a small minority, *I'm* not threatened (and never<BR>
have been) by discussions that stray from my favorite version of the<BR>
rules/setting/interpretation. I *like* cross-pollinization. Even<BR>
ship/vehicle designs I can't use directly are still interesting ...<BR>
or I can just Ctrl-D ...<BR>
<BR>
Can't we all just get along? Balkanization is *never* a good idea ...<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:10:46 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fire Fusion and Steel edition identification?<BR>
<BR>
Several old posts to this list mentioned a second edition of FF&S so you<BR>
aren't imagining it.  I think this was 2 years ago.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Russell Bornschlegel" <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 5:27 PM<BR>
Subject: Fire Fusion and Steel edition identification?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> So yesterday I stopped by Gamescape in SF to get some stuff to dump<BR>
> into the Traveller hopper in my brain, and picked up a used Fire Fusion<BR>
> and Steel, as well as the GT book and First In.<BR>
><BR>
> I seem to recall people mentioning a second edition of FF&S. The one<BR>
> I picked up has a 1993 copyright date and no edition identification,<BR>
> so I presume it's a first edition.<BR>
><BR>
> Can anyone confirm this for me, and tell me what I'm missing out on<BR>
> by not having a second edition FF&S?<BR>
><BR>
> Thanks in advance.<BR>
><BR>
> -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:02:41 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
Mon, 3 Jan 2000 02:56:22 PST<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
>>>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
>>>Kids large enough to run around with minimal supervision (say bright<BR>
>>>3-year olds on up) will probably be trained to *always* have with them<BR>
>>>a small pack/satchel that contains a children's rescue ball. Smaller,<BR>
>>>and again probably somewhat tougher (partly to withstand handling by<BR>
>>>kids!).<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
<BR>
[Much snipage...]<BR>
>> Yeah.  The tendency seems to be to see space travel as being<BR>
>> equivalent of taking a space shuttle or other ship designed<BR>
>> at relatively low tech level.  Space Travel, as presented in<BR>
>> Traveller, would be more like fly a cessna air craft.  You<BR>
>> don't make everyone wear a parachute (not even kids).<BR>
><BR>
>Mostly because parachutes aren't much help in a small plane. If<BR>
>anything goes wrong, you are likely better off riding it down.<BR>
><BR>
>But consider the fact that life jackets are required on small craft in<BR>
>many areas.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, they are quite a lot of use.  Unless the plane going to<BR>
be able to make a gliding landing, your odds with a parachute are<BR>
much better.  However, The odds that something will go wrong,<BR>
coupled with the odds that it will be something that you have<BR>
a chance to use a parachute to avoid, are low enough that it<BR>
just doesn't make sense.  The situation is similar to that present<BR>
for Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
(Also, lifejackets are required to be carried on board, almost<BR>
nobody ever wears thems except children in small craft.  This<BR>
would be more akin to stowing a few survival bubbles in the<BR>
airlock.)<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 18:12:36 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: traveller poll!<BR>
<BR>
At 08:20 am 1/3/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>TNE is the second most popular and T4 has almost no supporters? I<BR>
thought<BR>
>from the list that TNE was like leprosy, and I should really pick up<BR>
the<BR>
>T4 books if I wanted to gearhead around a little bit.<BR>
<BR>
	T4's design sequence was a half-baked hack of the TNE sequence,<BR>
thanks to IG and their (lack) of proofreading or allowance for<BR>
playtesting. It does have some really neat ideas in it, though.<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:13:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Not at all! In fact, I'm proud to be made the poster boy for what's wrong<BR>
> > with the TML!<BR>
> <BR>
> Great sig line just begging to be used, right there.  Go for it!  Who am I<BR>
> to discourage you?<BR>
> <BR>
A possible contender for the title?  ^_-<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:16:13 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: jurisdiction issues in the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
<BR>
>Okay.  Does anything protect local law, and local citizens,<BR>
>from Imperial military procedures on their planet?<BR>
<BR>
I'm assuming that Kenji is as usual in high ironic mode, so I<BR>
won't make a substantive response, other than to say, Kenji, if<BR>
you're being earnest, just think about it.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 12:23:05 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
> From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
> > "One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor...."<BR>
><BR>
> My keyboard is fine, but the cappuccino on my monitor may take <BR>
> several tries<BR>
> to clean off.  Love that tagline, iSteve!<BR>
<BR>
Bit wimpy though, three tequilas ?<BR>
<BR>
Unless he was talking about bottles.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 20:36:52 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Common Law<BR>
<BR>
At 15:02 -0500 3/1/00, "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net> wrote:<BR>
>SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:<BR>
> > At 23:15 -0500 28/12/99, Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
> > >The law of the system you're travelling to is<BR>
> > >something to consider.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Maybe you guys and gals could put your heads together and come up<BR>
> > with a system for rating the intrusiveness of law on Imperial<BR>
> > planets. You could rate it on the hex scale 0-F for example.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Why don't you tie it to useful stuff like, say, the restrictions on<BR>
> > guns <controversial here on TML> and the amount of harassment<BR>
> > foreigners get?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Do you reckon we could do it?<BR>
><BR>
>I was always of the impression that the Law Level served<BR>
>that purpose.  IIRC, part of the comments on the topic of LL<BR>
>says that you throw a LL check periodically to see if the<BR>
>local LEO agents try to interfere with your life in an unpleasant<BR>
>way.<BR>
><BR>
>Perhaps we should research our respective favorite source<BR>
>materials to see what they say and then suggest<BR>
>modifications for possible use IOurTUs.<BR>
<BR>
Consider that whole post applied sarcasm. Or as Doug may put it 'Sarchasm'.<BR>
<BR>
Dom <g><BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 17:28:06 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Humanitarianism<BR>
<BR>
"David P. Summers" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> (What do humans taste like?  Rumour is they taste like pork).<BR>
<BR>
Are there any Vilani lurkers on the list?  If so, they might be able to<BR>
let us know what humans taste like.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, the title for this post comes from the old joke:<BR>
<BR>
If a "vegetarian" is a person who only eats vegetables, then what is a<BR>
"humanitarian"?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 17:30:15 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Popular Liberation Front of Classic Traveller<BR>
<BR>
"David J. Golden" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> >Eris,<BR>
> >    sometimes I wonder what my bosses would think if they ever did<BR>
> >    search on my name<BR>
> <BR>
>         *shudder* I know I'd be trying to 'splain how it's all just a game,<BR>
> really, ... images of the threads about detecting and targeting<BR>
> objects in space, nuclear contact vs detlaser, stealth, ECM,<BR>
> destroying cities, biowarfare ....<BR>
<BR>
And you have a security clearance, too, don't you?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 17:33:47 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Village People as PC's<BR>
<BR>
shadowcat wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Let me help.  Chris, can you picture the Village People as a buncha<BR>
> Traveller PCs?  Or maybe as representatives of Known Space?<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> In this game the players are members of the Neo-Celtic Heavy<BR>
> Metal Band Tir Nan Og, on a Tour of the Spinward Marches.<BR>
> <BR>
> the bagpipe/heavy metal version of Wipeout must be priceless.<BR>
> The band plays a really wierd mix of old Terran music and whatever<BR>
> else comes to mind at the time.<BR>
<BR>
Then, of course, there's "Fija's newest pop sensation: Dulinor the Black<BR>
and the<BR>
Stormtroopers of Ilelish."<BR>
<BR>
Check<BR>
<BR>
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/bard/gail/gail5003.html<BR>
<BR>
for details (you'll need to scroll about 1/3 down the page for the first<BR>
of two stories about the band).<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:31:24 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Universal Law Profile<BR>
<BR>
I'll think about this a little.  I agree that it looks like a<BR>
good first stab by a non-lawyer.  I have the softbound T4, not<BR>
hardbound, but I'll look to see if it's in there.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:32:23 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Buggery-- NOISE<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Yeah, let Jory go first.  I don't need sedation; I've got the soothing<BR>
> vibes of yammering preppie prats returning from cash-sodden vacations to<BR>
> unwind to.  I'm so okay now.  Sorry for mouthing off.  It won't happen<BR>
> again.<BR>
> <BR>
Uh-huh.<BR>
<BR>
I didn't volunteer to sedate anyone but you, Kenji...you're special.<BR>
Doesn't that make you feel great?  LOL.  (...we won't mention "special<BR>
treatment", "special needs", "special education"...)<BR>
<BR>
LOL.  The penguins will be so disappointed.<BR>
<BR>
I would so love a cash-sodden vacation right now, but unfortunately I've<BR>
never been able to tolerate yammering preppie prats and Hiroshi is too<BR>
honest to pad his expense account.<BR>
<BR>
...sigh...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 17:39:17 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
> >I've never used them, but they look like an exceptionally<BR>
> >painful form  of slow torture. Use Aftermath - it's only slow<BR>
> >torture :)<BR>
> <BR>
> Mmm Aftermath:  "OK, guys, let's think about it.  Is there<BR>
> anything at all that we can do to avoid a firefight?  Because<BR>
> you all know that if we get into one, that's all we'll<BR>
> accomplish this session."<BR>
<BR>
As opposed to Call of Cthulhu:  "OK, guys, let's think about it.  Is<BR>
there<BR>
anything at all that we can do to avoid encountering... Things?  Because<BR>
you all know that if we run into one, that the most we'll accomplish is<BR>
another nice long stay in Arkham Sanitorium."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 18:26:22 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Galaxy Quest!<BR>
<BR>
At 01:13 am 1/3/00 GMT, you wrote:<BR>
>> >> Another player was a physics major. He and I started discussing<BR>
how to<BR>
>> >> build a breeder reactor (using orcs and condemned criminals to<BR>
work in<BR>
>> >> the high radiation areas). And how to extract the plutonium,<BR>
and<BR>
>> >> construct a bomb.<BR>
><BR>
>Let's see, the technology to do this is *so* easy that every nation<BR>
that<BR>
>has tried has used of couple of thousand technicians, scientists and<BR>
>engineers, a few million pounds of silver in expenses and the<BR>
resources<BR>
>and production capability of a major mid twentieth century<BR>
industrialised<BR>
>nation.<BR>
>I don't think a physics major and a couple of orcs are quite up to<BR>
this task.<BR>
<BR>
	You obviously missed the Reader's Digest article about the _kid_ who<BR>
managed to produce enough material that one day the neighbors came<BR>
home to find the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, in full hazard<BR>
outfits, dismantling and carting away his parents' shed in standard<BR>
55-gallon drums with huge red & yellow trefoils. 'Course, he was<BR>
nowhere near enough to make a bomb, but still ... that's a<BR>
high-school kid. Take somebody who *knows* what he's doing ...<BR>
<BR>
	The big difficulty with nukes is (a) figuring it out in the first<BR>
place, and (b) learning how to do it in something other than a<BR>
brute-force approach.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1652<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1653</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1653<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Fire Fusion and Steel edition identification?<BR>
Xboat redux<BR>
Re: Excessive volume<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Gunnery<BR>
Re: Excessive volume<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Harn<BR>
Re: Sac'to?<BR>
re: Traveller Versions - What I Liked and Did Not Like<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
RE: Minor Races (Was CanonDrift)<BR>
Re: Nuclear Children<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
Re: Strange Random UWP's<BR>
Re: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 18:36:31 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fire Fusion and Steel edition identification?<BR>
<BR>
At 02:27 pm 1/3/00 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>So yesterday I stopped by Gamescape in SF to get some stuff to dump<BR>
>into the Traveller hopper in my brain, and picked up a used Fire<BR>
Fusion<BR>
>and Steel, as well as the GT book and First In.<BR>
><BR>
>I seem to recall people mentioning a second edition of FF&S. The one<BR>
>I picked up has a 1993 copyright date and no edition identification,<BR>
>so I presume it's a first edition. <BR>
><BR>
>Can anyone confirm this for me, and tell me what I'm missing out on <BR>
>by not having a second edition FF&S?<BR>
<BR>
	- Miserable (==0) proofreading and a botched conversion from Word to<BR>
the layout format<BR>
	+ One consistent hull design sequence for *all* vehicles, ground,<BR>
grav, aircraft, space<BR>
	- No playtesting<BR>
	+ Expanded life support options<BR>
	- Confusing layout<BR>
	+ Neat game details about a lot of "add-ons"<BR>
	- Inconsistent with all the other previous design sequences for T4<BR>
	+ I helped write it<BR>
	- IG helped ruin it<BR>
	+ Early draft of the Definitive Sensor Rules, IMO the best set of<BR>
consistent and realistic sensor rules ever (kudos again to Bruce ...)<BR>
	- Early draft the the Definitive Sensor Rules without playtesting<BR>
and fixes ...<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:31:43 +1000<BR>
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Xboat redux<BR>
<BR>
<Uncreditied manual qoute><BR>
<BR>
Well, as the one who posted the original GURPS vs. T5 message, I want to<BR>
thank those who had something constructive to say.  Overall, however, I<BR>
was completely disappointed with the childish flame war.  I'm just<BR>
getting back into Traveller after a year off and realize that this list<BR>
has a totally unacceptable signal to noise ratio for my tastes (that's<BR>
not to say that it isn't a fun list or anything...it's just I have<BR>
plenty of purely social outlets...I just don't have enough time in a day<BR>
to slog through 100-300 posts of non-traveller related posts.)  I long<BR>
for the good 'ol days of XBoat.<BR>
<BR>
</quote><BR>
<BR>
The Pyramid Traveller discussion has a supprisingly low level offtopic<BR>
discussions (Actually none). Sure it is not free, but is well worth the effort.<BR>
At the moment, the gearheaddedness is quite high (with Starships being thrashed<BR>
(pun not intended) out as we speak).<BR>
<BR>
I am not too sure if a GURPS xboat is warrented, but all the best with the new<BR>
list.<BR>
<BR>
Darryl<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:39:47 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Excessive volume<BR>
<BR>
At 02:03 PM 1/3/00 PST, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>And even elimiating the more *obvious* threads, there's still *way* too<BR>
>much stuff with low content. <BR>
><BR>
>Could you all *please* either take it to private mail or quit rehashing<BR>
>old fights? <BR>
><BR>
>Just consider this. When *I* start complaining about volume, the list<BR>
>may well be in danger of getting dumped by a lot of folks. After all,<BR>
>I've got a *lot* more "free time" than most folks.<BR>
><BR>
>-- <BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
        Very Agreed Too, Leonard....<BR>
<BR>
        At the risk of plugging, the most annoying thing about the "This<BR>
Game Company is Better than That Game Company" threads is that there is an<BR>
ENTIRE LIST dedicated to discussion of gamers, gaming, and  preferences and<BR>
life-styles associated therewith...<BR>
<BR>
        Its called "A Gamers Life"....  it was created after the BDSM<BR>
discussion last year on the TML offended folks who -- rightly -- said it had<BR>
NOTHING to do with Traveller...  I'd say the whole "To GURP or not to GURP"<BR>
buisness is better off there....<BR>
<BR>
        If everyone screaming at each other would like to do so, please<BR>
"take it outside" the TML...  <BR>
<BR>
        When I delete 350 messages in one setting, it tells me that<BR>
something is broken...<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	"Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
			       ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Cyberpunk:  	"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"<BR>
	Traveller:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"<BR>
	AD&D:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 17:48:22 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
>     I like Foss, his big, spooky spaceships just hanging over a landscape<BR>
> strikes a chord in me.<BR>
<BR>
I suspect that the phrase you want is something along the lines of<BR>
"hanging in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't."  Ah,<BR>
THHGttG!<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
>     Mr Foss does let us down on one point though, his ships are too big and<BR>
> Traveller is about little ships, so thats the beef I have with the choice of<BR>
> his art. It doesn't stop it being good art though.<BR>
<BR>
I take it, then, that you aren't planning to submit a resume' to<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards in the Far Future.  Traveller is about 500,000 dton<BR>
dreadnoughts, with HONKIN' BIG particle accelerators and meson guns! <BR>
Procured with "cost plus" contracts!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 16:44:04 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
David P. Summers wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> Actually, they are quite a lot of use.  Unless the plane going to<BR>
> be able to make a gliding landing, your odds with a parachute are<BR>
> much better.  However, The odds that something will go wrong,<BR>
> coupled with the odds that it will be something that you have<BR>
> a chance to use a parachute to avoid, are low enough that it<BR>
> just doesn't make sense.  The situation is similar to that present<BR>
> for Traveller.<BR>
> <BR>
> (Also, lifejackets are required to be carried on board, almost<BR>
> nobody ever wears thems except children in small craft.  This<BR>
> would be more akin to stowing a few survival bubbles in the<BR>
> airlock.)<BR>
<BR>
Well, the current tred is the development of parachutes for the entire<BR>
aircraft. The problem is that the chutes tend to stress the airframe so<BR>
that it no longer passes FAA inspection (on the order of doing a loop in<BR>
said Cessna...by FAA rules that airframe is to be broken up as soon as<BR>
you land, as it is no longer airworthy.)<BR>
<BR>
But the point about life jackets not being worn by anyone accounts for<BR>
around 70-90% of the drownings that occur due to small craft sinkings<BR>
every year. <sigh> Like seatbelts in cars, they work well, but only if<BR>
you use them.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:43:54 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Excessive volume<BR>
<BR>
At 02:03 PM 1/3/00 PST, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>And even elimiating the more *obvious* threads, there's still *way* too<BR>
>much stuff with low content. <BR>
><BR>
>Could you all *please* either take it to private mail or quit rehashing<BR>
>old fights? <BR>
><BR>
>Just consider this. When *I* start complaining about volume, the list<BR>
>may well be in danger of getting dumped by a lot of folks. After all,<BR>
>I've got a *lot* more "free time" than most folks.<BR>
><BR>
>-- <BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
        Very Agreed Too, Leonard....<BR>
<BR>
        At the risk of plugging, the most annoying thing about the "This<BR>
Game Company is Better than That Game Company" threads is that there is an<BR>
ENTIRE LIST dedicated to discussion of gamers, gaming, and  preferences and<BR>
life-styles associated therewith...<BR>
<BR>
        Its called "A Gamers Life"....  it was created after the BDSM<BR>
discussion last year on the TML offended folks who -- rightly -- said it had<BR>
NOTHING to do with Traveller...  I'd say the whole "To GURP or not to GURP"<BR>
buisness is better off there....<BR>
<BR>
        If everyone screaming at each other would like to do so, please<BR>
"take it outside" the TML...  <BR>
<BR>
        When I delete 350 messages in one setting, it tells me that<BR>
something is broken...<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	"Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
			       ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Cyberpunk:  	"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"<BR>
	Traveller:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"<BR>
	AD&D:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:42:03 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
> > From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
> > > "One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor...."<BR>
> ><BR>
> > My keyboard is fine, but the cappuccino on my monitor may take<BR>
> > several tries to clean off.  Love that tagline, iSteve!<BR>
><BR>
> Bit wimpy though, three tequilas ?> Unless he was talking about bottles.<BR>
<BR>
Probably three pitchers of margaritas, that was my guess.  Of course, some<BR>
folks think that "two fingers" means the space between their index and<BR>
pinkie fingers :-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:45:00 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
>>Actually, some of us do support the idea of separate GT an CT/MT lists.<BR>
>>Like myself.<BR>
>>William F. Hostman<BR>
><BR>
>        The _Classic Traveller Mailing List's_ purpose is to allow the best<BR>
>        possile lines of communication within the Community of<BR>
>        Classic TRAVELLER/ LLB players.  It was created in response to a<BR>
>        percieved need amongst CT/LBB players who wished to focus<BR>
>        discussions on these rules and the millieu.<BR>
>        To subscribe send a message to "petidomo@atlantic-online.ns.ca"<BR>
with<BR>
>only "subscribe ClassicTraveller" as the first line in the message body.<BR>
No<BR>
>digest mode is available, unfortunately.<BR>
>        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
    No good if you want to talk MegaTraveller though.<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 17:46:17 -0600<BR>
From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
on 1/3/00 4:50 PM, Traveller-digest at<BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
> <BR>
> At 04:59 PM 1/3/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>> Yes, I know. My group played Aftermeth for years back in the 80s.<BR>
> <BR>
> Is Aftermeth the game one plays in rehab? ;)<BR>
> <BR>
> I imagine that there is a d12 involved on the step chart.<BR>
> _________________________________________________________<BR>
> Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com<BR>
> Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com<BR>
> Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com<BR>
> IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+<BR>
> _________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
$^^*@%$% Grrr. That was Good Ale I just spilt. Score 4 points you...<BR>
<BR>
W.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Live without fear; your Creator loves you     | William Barnett-Lewis<BR>
as a mother. Go in peace to follow the good   | mailto://wlewis@mailbag.com<BR>
road and may God's blessing be with           |<BR>
you always.                                   |<BR>
St. Claire                                    |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:51:18 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>> >>    Is it so bad, that I want to see the blood of every GURPS<BR>
>> >>player, outside of their body, in vast amounts?<BR>
>> >Send me your address.  Now.  You are making terrorist threats<BR>
>> >and I will *not* stand for it.<BR>
>><BR>
>> My understanding of the present state of the law -- which may be<BR>
>> wrong -- is that if he's making terroristic threats in violation<BR>
>> of California law, it doesn't matter where he's sending them<BR>
>> from, as long as they are coming somehow into California.  This<BR>
>> is an even better case than the California adult web site owners<BR>
>> who were prosecuted in Tennessee for violating Tennessee's<BR>
>> obscenity laws.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Doug, why don't you call the DA?  This looks like an interesting<BR>
>> case.<BR>
>> --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
    Oh Barf! Are you guys really going to call the cops everytime a munchie<BR>
threatens you? I'd better unsubscribe before this becomes policy.<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 18:51:12 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
At 06:42 pm 1/3/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
>> > From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
>> > > "One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor...."<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > My keyboard is fine, but the cappuccino on my monitor may take<BR>
>> > several tries to clean off.  Love that tagline, iSteve!<BR>
>><BR>
>> Bit wimpy though, three tequilas ?> Unless he was talking about<BR>
bottles.<BR>
><BR>
>Probably three pitchers of margaritas, that was my guess.  Of<BR>
course, some<BR>
>folks think that "two fingers" means the space between their index<BR>
and<BR>
>pinkie fingers :-)<BR>
<BR>
	No, it's the length of two fingers ...<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:27:03 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Harn<BR>
<BR>
At 16:05 -0500 3/1/00, Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
> Have you checked out the OP GDW S1889 or the new 7th Seas?<BR>
> I haven't seen 7th Seas.<BR>
<BR>
Try http://www.7thsea.com as it's got some info. may be of interest.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:36:24 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sac'to?<BR>
<BR>
At 16:59 -0500 3/1/00, Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
> >All the BITS adventures are designed for 6 characters...<BR>
>That just confirms my suspicions that BITS is a Droyne plot.<BR>
<BR>
I'll just be a Sport and pop into the pocket universe and check if <BR>
you're allowed to know that....<BR>
<BR>
<Activate the Warriors from stasis. Intervention required on long <BR>
term control study group specimen  on Terra. This one looks like it <BR>
has become self-aware - we need to vivisect it>.<BR>
<BR>
YaskroDom<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:39:11 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Traveller Versions - What I Liked and Did Not Like<BR>
<BR>
At 16:59 -0500 3/1/00,  scharlto@ifsna.com  wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I have not played Classic Traveller in years, but I<BR>
>still crib ideas from 101 Patrons all the time.<BR>
<BR>
*76* Patrons unless you've obtained a pre-release copy of 101 <BR>
Patrons, and only Andy Lilly and myself have those at the moment.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:48:55 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 17:50 -0500 3/1/00, "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com> wrote:<BR>
>I certainly don't want to go back and sift through past messages to get the<BR>
>exact context of this citation, but that<BR>
>looks more like a terrorist *question* to me. Are those forbidden by<BR>
>California law also?<BR>
<BR>
Well, I know that UK legislation 'Prevention of Terrorism Act' bans <BR>
certain groups, allows the Police extra powers (eg ISTR that <BR>
internment without trial is still an option) and adds certain <BR>
offenses; but generally prosecutions are made using the relevant <BR>
criminal law to avoid legitimising the groups.<BR>
<BR>
Turning this back to the original post - is threatening to kill <BR>
people an offense in the US?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 19:09:14 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
<BR>
>Imperial Rhapsody<BR>
<BR>
<SNIP><BR>
<BR>
<Stops laughing, wipes tear from eye><BR>
<BR>
Ahh, that was beautiful. I just had to whack in the CD and sing along....<BR>
<BR>
Keep it up<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:51:18 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
>Given the information already provided, plus the answers to the above<BR>
>questions, I feel confident that AuricTech can provide a T4/FF&S2 design<BR>
>that reasonably approximates the actual (400 dton) deckplan in question.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(But we'll either undercut AuricTech by 40% or we'll refund DOUBLE THE<BR>
DIFFERENCE! This week only!)<BR>
<BR>
NB<BR>
+++<BR>
Evil Geniu^H^H^HGearheads For A Better Tomorrow<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:56:18 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
>        The Canadian Research Council was funding cancer treatment<BR>
>technology based around meson systems in the mid to late 80's...  I<BR>
remember<BR>
>seeing the article and waving it in front of my gaming group and saying<BR>
"the<BR>
>damn particles *DO* exist"...  we'd just presumed anything that behaved<BR>
that<BR>
>fantastically was "handwavium".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Disclaimer - I'm an engineer, not a particle physicist, so my definitions<BR>
may be a little out, but I'm pretty sure on the general gist of the<BR>
statement.<BR>
<BR>
Real-Life mesons exist, but bear no resemblance to Traveller mesons. In real<BR>
life a meson is any particle made of two quarks. Baryons (including protons<BR>
and neutrons) are made up of three quarks. There are a whole range of<BR>
different types of meson, and every so often a lab discovers a new type<BR>
(although this is rarely of interest outside the academic community). Mesons<BR>
don't go through matter (neutrinos, on the other hand, do) and they<BR>
generally don't explosively decay.<BR>
<BR>
The best explanation ObTrav I've heard is the one where a Solomani physicist<BR>
named Dr Mason discovers a wonderful new particle which passes right through<BR>
matter etc etc. The Navy pick up his research and make the Mason Gun, a<BR>
potent spinal mount weapon, but somewhere along the line (naval types not<BR>
being reknowned for their knowledge of  cutting-edge particle physics)<BR>
somebody believes it fires mesons, an official report is mistitled, and the<BR>
name sticks. Or possibly it was an intelligence precaution taken to throw<BR>
off reverse-engineering attempts by the other side. (ISTR Meson Guns made<BR>
their appearence mid-Interstellar Wars, so perhaps this isn't too far<BR>
fetched...)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:10:03 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Minor Races (Was CanonDrift)<BR>
<BR>
At 05:50 PM 1/3/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:01:19 +0000<BR>
>From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
>David<BR>
><BR>
>I think if we look through the new races all of us are going to have likes<BR>
and<BR>
>dislikes. My main general main issues with the new minor races are:<BR>
>- - uncertainty as to where they sit with canon<BR>
>- - lack of integration with any traveller timeline<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>On the first issue, is it in the nature of the agreement with Marc that<BR>
the new<BR>
>races will also be available for, and used within, T5. I'm not sure how to<BR>
say<BR>
>this, but is the background "blessed" in the sense that it will be<BR>
available to<BR>
>other Traveller publishers?<BR>
<BR>
That, of course, is a question that can be applied to all GURPS Traveller<BR>
material. I've wondered publically about the same thing -- canonicity of GT<BR>
in regard to T5 et al -- several times, on this list and off. I imagine<BR>
only Marc really knows what he wants.  It is alien to my experience as a<BR>
gamer and referee to resist using material I otherwise like simply because<BR>
it hasn't been "approved" (after all, are the world details one creates for<BR>
one's own campaign "canon?") but I can see it's a valid approach,<BR>
especially if you enjoy Traveller mainly as a form of interactive history<BR>
of the future rather than as a sfrpg.<BR>
<BR>
>On the second, back in the "good old days"of GDW, up to and including TNE,<BR>
new<BR>
>additions to the Traveller canon would be further embedded through entries<BR>
in TNS.<BR>
>The SJG TNS doesn't, unless I'm missing something, mention any of the new<BR>
races<BR>
<BR>
Well, I've never seen a canon reference in the old TNS to the majority of<BR>
minor races... probably<BR>
because they are either "minor" or way out in the fringes of settled space.<BR>
 I agree that increasing<BR>
TNS input would be a good idea.<BR>
<BR>
>entries with background items about the new races. In fact since you<BR>
presumably<BR>
>know which of your races (what's the generic term - Pulvoids?) will be in the<BR>
>future volumes, you could start generating some interest in them the same<BR>
way.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I don't and can't.  GTAR4 is still in flux.  My two chapters of<BR>
GTAR3 are written in first draft, but has yet to be playtested. In response<BR>
to comments from playtesters and editor, the relations of the races with<BR>
their neighbours (mostly Hivers and K'Kree in this case) may change<BR>
drastically.  As for the TNS, while I agree that foreshadowing would be<BR>
nifty, I have no connection with or access to it (I'm not an employee of<BR>
SJG). I wasn't aware it was open to outside contributions, though that<BR>
might be a good idea... Loren?<BR>
<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 16:10:12 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Nuclear Children<BR>
<BR>
David J. Golden wrote:<BR>
>         You obviously missed the Reader's Digest article about the _kid_ who<BR>
> managed to produce enough material that one day the neighbors came<BR>
> home to find the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, in full hazard<BR>
> outfits, dismantling and carting away his parents' shed in standard<BR>
> 55-gallon drums with huge red & yellow trefoils. 'Course, he was<BR>
> nowhere near enough to make a bomb, but still ... that's a<BR>
> high-school kid. Take somebody who *knows* what he's doing ...<BR>
<BR>
The article that I read about the kid collecting nuclear material (I <BR>
think in Harpers, rather than Reader's Digest) smelled AWFULLY fishy. <BR>
I wish I could recall the details that set off my BS detector, other <BR>
than the kid in question seeming very smart in some parts of the story, <BR>
and very stupid in others. Oh, and the neighbors reporting that the <BR>
backyard was glowing. <BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know if this has been covered by the urban legends <BR>
newsgroups? I suppose I could just go FAQ-diving...<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 19:09:58 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-01-03 15:03:20 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< ISTR a time when there were several RPG mags in print that KS sent out an<BR>
 order to the editors demanding approval of any article mentioning his<BR>
 products, including *reviews*.<BR>
 <BR>
 I can't remember if this was in Shadis or Pyramid, but the editor shared<BR>
 this information, and just said that they had no intention of complying,<BR>
 and would simply drop *all* mention of Palladium in the 'zine.  Ads<BR>
 included. >><BR>
<BR>
This happened to Challenge. We were presented with two options, one of which <BR>
was intolerable to us as sentient beings, and one of which was never to <BR>
mention them again. We also received a letter from Kevin's law-firm taking us <BR>
to task for daring to run an article titled "A Little Recon Mission." I got <BR>
to write the answer to that one, and had great fun.<BR>
<BR>
LKW (which does not stand for "landkraftwagen")<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 23:37:27 GMT<BR>
From: Postmark Design Bureau <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Strange Random UWP's<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 15:41:32 -0900 From: "William F. Hostman"<BR>
<aramis@gci.net><BR>
>>04) X000213-1 _ As Lo Ni Va _ 820 _ M9 V<BR>
>A 800 person corporate location. Sounds to me like they're probably rated<BR>
>not on common tech but upon local production. They're able to work soft<BR>
>metals.<BR>
An 800 person corporate location, able to work soft metals?<BR>
<BR>
Sounds like you just found where Games Workshop relocated it's figure<BR>
casting facilities to after the heavy metal pollution problems.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Products Division<BR>
"Microwaving halfbaked ideas from across the galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:35:15 GMT<BR>
From: Postmark Design Bureau <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS versus Traveller<BR>
<BR>
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Craig Lytton wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I remember the old Battletech "Recon Lance" miniatures set.  It had a<BR>
> > small sticker proclaiming "Recon is a trademark of Palladium Games".<BR>
> > I hope the military field manuals have a disclaimer, have Palladium<BR>
> > Games' lawyers looked into that one????<BR>
<BR>
As I understand it, they won't need one. A trademark isn't just the text,<BR>
it's the appearance of the text.<BR>
 <BR>
> Weeeeel... considering how successful Amazon.com has been suing various<BR>
> businesses around the country for use of the word "Amazon" in their names,<BR>
> who knows?  Palladium Games might get a settlement out of the DOD.  Hell,<BR>
> SJG beat the feds, right?<BR>
> <BR>
> Kenji<BR>
<BR>
Let's see, I'm a small business turning over a few hundred k per year with<BR>
the probable right to use Amazon in my company name as I currently do.<BR>
Then Amazon.com turn up with a billion pounds worth of lawers[1] and promise<BR>
that even if I did win, then verilly my entire family would be bankrupted<BR>
until the third generation...<BR>
<BR>
By contrast, I noticed that George Lucas didn't try to challenge the SDI<BR>
project when everyone started calling it "Star Wars"<BR>
<BR>
[1] it's not that I have anything against lawyers, it's just that the<BR>
    current system means that I would risk losing everything whereas the<BR>
    other party is only risking petty cash.<BR>
- -- <BR>
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Products Division<BR>
"Microwaving halfbaked ideas from across the galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1653<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1654</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1654<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Fire Fusion and Steel edition identification?<BR>
Re: Doug vs. LL (was GURPS vs. T5)<BR>
re: Traveller Versions - What I Liked and Did Not Like<BR>
re:  Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: Strange Random UWP's<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Traveller Versions - What I Liked and Did Not Like<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
*everything* tastes like chicken<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
Re: Gunnery<BR>
re:  Humanitarianism<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:14:23 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Fire Fusion and Steel edition identification?<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Jan 00, at 14:27, Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> So yesterday I stopped by Gamescape in SF to get some stuff to dump<BR>
> into the Traveller hopper in my brain, and picked up a used Fire Fusion<BR>
> and Steel, as well as the GT book and First In.<BR>
> <BR>
> I seem to recall people mentioning a second edition of FF&S. The one<BR>
> I picked up has a 1993 copyright date and no edition identification,<BR>
> so I presume it's a first edition. <BR>
> <BR>
> Can anyone confirm this for me, and tell me what I'm missing out on <BR>
> by not having a second edition FF&S?<BR>
<BR>
It's not called a second _edition_, but a second _printing_ and you can <BR>
detect it because somewhere (I don't have it, so I'm not sure exactly <BR>
where) on the first couple of pages it'll have "Mk1, Mod1".<BR>
<BR>
Basically it's an error fixed version, with a few thing (like turret <BR>
extenders) added in that were left out or thought of later. There's a <BR>
listing of all changes in Challenge 75 if you can get a copy, and it's <BR>
no doubt on the web somewhere. There are also extra design sequences <BR>
and additions in the other TNE sourcebooks, and some errata (the most <BR>
important being the alteration of Plasma/Fusion guns).<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 16:16:33 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug vs. LL (was GURPS vs. T5)<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> Please, parties concerned, let's let the excitement of death threats drop,<BR>
> and not make fools of ourselves with the Normal People.  If DAs qualify as<BR>
> such.  <BR>
<BR>
I second this motion. <BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:09:24 -0700<BR>
From: scharlto@ifsna.com<BR>
Subject: re: Traveller Versions - What I Liked and Did Not Like<BR>
<BR>
No - the American edition was 101 Patrons.  You folks in the UK<BR>
got the metric 76 Patrons version....<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote<BR>
At 16:59 -0500 3/1/00,  scharlto@ifsna.com  wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I have not played Classic Traveller in years, but I<BR>
>still crib ideas from 101 Patrons all the time.<BR>
<BR>
*76* Patrons unless you've obtained a pre-release copy of 101<BR>
Patrons, and only Andy Lilly and myself have those at the<BR>
moment.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Steven Charlton<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:18:54 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
>I vote for Gilbert and Sullivan. Hmmm. "HMS Pinafore" in <BR>
>Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
For he is the very model of a modern Sector Admiral ...<BR>
<BR>
And Lucan's theme of course should be the Executioner's Song<BR>
from the Mikado:<BR>
<BR>
And they'd none of them be missed! not one of them be missed!<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 18:24:00 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Given the information already provided, plus the answers to the above<BR>
> >questions, I feel confident that AuricTech can provide a T4/FF&S2 design<BR>
> >that reasonably approximates the actual (400 dton) deckplan in question.<BR>
> <BR>
> (But we'll either undercut AuricTech by 40% or we'll refund DOUBLE THE<BR>
> DIFFERENCE! This week only!)<BR>
<BR>
Ah, still working for General Shipyards, I see....<BR>
<BR>
After the unfortunate mishap which befell Trimkhana-Brilliance in 1106,<BR>
I'm not surprised to see General Shipyards offering discounts.  Such a<BR>
tragedy.  217 lives lost.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 18:25:54 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Strange Random UWP's<BR>
<BR>
Postmark Design Bureau wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 15:41:32 -0900 From: "William F. Hostman"<BR>
> <aramis@gci.net><BR>
> >>04) X000213-1 _ As Lo Ni Va _ 820 _ M9 V<BR>
> >A 800 person corporate location. Sounds to me like they're probably rated<BR>
> >not on common tech but upon local production. They're able to work soft<BR>
> >metals.<BR>
> An 800 person corporate location, able to work soft metals?<BR>
> <BR>
> Sounds like you just found where Games Workshop relocated it's figure<BR>
> casting facilities to after the heavy metal pollution problems.<BR>
<BR>
That explains the prices.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 16:27:12 -0800<BR>
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
At 11:38 PM 01/02/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
>Doug carelessly typed:<BR>
> ><BR>
>You stated that those who write GURPS Traveller should be burned.  I am<BR>
>writing GURPS Traveller.  Perhaps, in my case, a light singing will do?<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
>A light *singing*??? perhaps some light opera or a Broadway medley?<BR>
><BR>
>Surely that sort of thing is banned by some convention?<BR>
Damn and double damn. This one got me, and I am one of the hardest to kill. <BR>
Score yourself a keyboard kill flag, M.J.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Brian A. Howard<BR>
<BR>
IMTU @tc tm @t4 GT++ ru- ge+ 3i+ jt-- au+ st++ ls+ kk+ hi+ as++ va+ zh+ so- <BR>
vi da+ ?sy--<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:31:23 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 07:31 PM 1/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> >>On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>> Kiri, I just want you to know you don't have to belong to any special<BR>
> >community in order to be 'family'.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Jory, Family (note the capital F) is how queer/les/bi/gay/trans people refer<BR>
> >to themselves, especially in mixed company.  It doesn't mean anything about<BR>
> >anyone else not being able to be family with anyone else, it's just a code<BR>
> >phrase that people have retained because it's still useful.  =)<BR>
> <BR>
> And it's more dignified than "Friend of Dorothy."<BR>
> <BR>
Especially for those of us who don't like the Wizard of Oz movie a whole<BR>
lot, and are not particularly fond of showtunes.<BR>
<BR>
LOL<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 18:38:59 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Versions - What I Liked and Did Not Like<BR>
<BR>
scharlto@ifsna.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> No - the American edition was 101 Patrons.  You folks in the UK<BR>
> got the metric 76 Patrons version....<BR>
<BR>
Huh.  I thought that the overseas markets got _76 Patrons_ (the metric<BR>
version mentioned above), while civilian markets here in the US<BR>
originally got _3" Patrons_.<BR>
<BR>
Which would explain why all the covers were later changed to _76<BR>
Patrons_.  After all, _3" Patrons_ sounds....  Well, let's just say that<BR>
it doesn't sound like an impressive thing to have.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:34:50 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 02:58 PM 1/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I gave you one of them.  Or maybe it was someone else who had the same<BR>
> >shirt.  Actually there is always one man wearing that shirt at every Pride<BR>
> >march.  I know because I saw him in Columbus Ohio and I am pretty sure it<BR>
> >wasn't you.<BR>
> <BR>
> are you sure about that?<BR>
> <BR>
Were you at Columbus Pride in either 1993 or 1994?<BR>
<BR>
Kiri =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:35:04 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
<BR>
>The reality is that the online Traveller community is already <BR>
>split into different lists.  Off the top of my head, there's <BR>
[deletion]<BR>
>proliferate, if they're narrowly defined and let the TML stay  <BR>
>the general mixing bowl.  I'd personally be glad to have G:T <BR>
>rules and techy stuff go elsewhere, I have to say.<BR>
<BR>
Me, too.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:38:44 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
It seems a shame that no credit card orders are accepted, as I'm sure this<BR>
will reduce sales and impulse buying somewhat due to the reduced<BR>
conveniance, especially from non-US.  I assume a secure credit card system<BR>
is too difficult or inconveniant for Marc to set up. But if a tiny company<BR>
like BITS can arrange to use SJ Games Warehouse 23 ordering system, might<BR>
Marc also consider making a similar arrangement with SJ Games as well?<BR>
<BR>
I'm also unclear as to whether this will be distributed through stores or<BR>
only via mail order. The "News" section of Traveller Downport says "let<BR>
your local game store know" but the early buzz seemed to imply mail order<BR>
only.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 00:48:39 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
>Unless he was talking about bottles.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<shudder> Please speak not of The Evil Liquid so casually...<BR>
<BR>
I (I'm told) drank one bottle to myself on an occasion this summer. It was<BR>
an experience I'm not that keen to repeat.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 01:03:26 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
<BR>
>Well a traveller /// TML Game in Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK.<BR>
>March 11th and 12th<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hmm......how far is this place from Durham? I'll be back at Uni then and I'd<BR>
love to go.<BR>
<BR>
(I don't drive, so I'll need some kind of public transport link.)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 01:06:11 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
>Ah, still working for General Shipyards, I see....<BR>
><BR>
>After the unfortunate mishap which befell Trimkhana-Brilliance in 1106,<BR>
>I'm not surprised to see General Shipyards offering discounts.  Such a<BR>
>tragedy.  217 lives lost.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
No, either Moorsyth Engineering, Moorsyth Design or ANRAtech (depending on<BR>
the time period). For a sample of our fiscal policy, I submit the ANRAtech<BR>
Trabant-IV, a 170-dTon freighter which can earn back its purchase cost in a<BR>
mere six years, five months.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.nickb.ndirect.co.uk/tneships/FT_Traba.html<BR>
<BR>
You'll note the lack of spinal mounts.<BR>
<BR>
Nick Bradbeer,<BR>
pp<BR>
Alexssander Browning-Honeycutt,<BR>
CEO, ANRAtech<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:07:16 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
<BR>
>Ye Yaskoydrays.  What have we created?<BR>
>Let me help.  Chris, can you picture the Village People as a <BR>
>buncha Traveller PCs?  Or maybe as representatives of Known <BR>
>Space? <BR>
>In fear and trembling,<BR>
>Kenji<BR>
<BR>
Maybe someone with more musical ability than I have could try<BR>
writing a song after "YMCA" about the Octagon Society (or maybe<BR>
the Travellers' Aid Society")?<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 20:10:28 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
Marc said that distributors orders were arriving apace and Jay LaRosee, our<BR>
fellow TML member who owns Medieval Starship, said that he had seen it in<BR>
the announcements he gets from distributors.  Does that mean that Warehouse<BR>
23 can offer it if they like?<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
><BR>
> I'm also unclear as to whether this will be distributed through stores or<BR>
> only via mail order. The "News" section of Traveller Downport says "let<BR>
> your local game store know" but the early buzz seemed to imply mail order<BR>
> only.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:15:37 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
>On 3 Jan 00, at 11:53, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
>> Mmm Aftermath:  "OK, guys, let's think about it.  Is there<BR>
>> anything at all that we can do to avoid a firefight?  Because<BR>
>> you all know that if we get into one, that's all we'll<BR>
>> accomplish this session."<BR>
><BR>
>Actually I was joking. We used Aftermath for years and found<BR>
>that once everyone knew how it worked it moved along just fine.<BR>
<BR>
I wasn't joking, but my comments come from my experience<BR>
playtesting Aftermath when I was a college student -- before the<BR>
flow chart.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 12:20:37 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
David replied to someone:<BR>
>At 11:01 pm 1/2/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>>I'm somewhat troubled by the rumblings surrounding a split of the TML.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I unsubbed over the holidays, so it looks like I missed all the... fun?!?<BR>
<BR>
Actually, even if I had still been on, I sort of assumed that signal-to-noise<BR>
would increase, simply because it always has at the end of every year. This<BR>
year, I thought, should have been even worse (and apparently I was right), but<BR>
it probably just reflects the general noise being made in the media and<BR>
community about "the millenium".<BR>
<BR>
I'm another who believes in keeping one list and revelling in the<BR>
cross-pollenation that David mentioned. Divide and conquer has never helped the<BR>
RPG world, anyway. Generally, this list is self-policing - in the past, if some<BR>
drongo has made personal attacks, polite letters to the webmaster has fixed the<BR>
problem (even if they had to escalate from requests to cease-and-desist up to<BR>
kicking people off). This list is *nothing* like a newsgroup, in that regard.<BR>
<BR>
Having two lists, back in the old xboat days, was tiresome - esp. towards the<BR>
end, when cross-posting was rife.<BR>
<BR>
My suggestion is this: wait for a while, and everything will settle down.<BR>
Remember this is a very fast medium, where 3 days is a long time (equivalent to<BR>
45 digests, by my count), and things can heat up and cool down within a week.<BR>
Follow the netiquette suggestions: write your vitriolic reply, get it all out of<BR>
your system, then count to 10 (or 20, in extreme cases ;-). Bin your response,<BR>
and write another. If it still contains flames (esp. personal attacks), bin this<BR>
as well. If you still have a personal problem with someone, just take the time<BR>
to think, "Oh well, they probably don't get out enough, and haven't learned the<BR>
social graces", and you'll probably be right, at least with the first bit, since<BR>
they _are_ a TML reader. [ this was a _joke_, everyone, OK? ;-) ] The final<BR>
method is to unsub for a week or two, then come back.<BR>
<BR>
Be cool. Wear dark glasses. Fly old air/rafts and feel the atmosphere in your<BR>
hair. Chuckle at the impossibility of iris valves. Avoid grinning at Aslan,<BR>
unless they are wearing comfortable shoes. Don't land at Alell. Smile at Norris'<BR>
symbol, since you know he wears it on his codpiece. When you think of this, and<BR>
Dilgaadin also smiles, wink at him. Take it easy. Don't be afraid of pirates.<BR>
Remember that the Regina subsector is patrolled by four of those quality<BR>
vessels, the Kinunirs. Read the Silly Traveller page more often. Wave at Hivers,<BR>
but avoid the corn dogs. Don't leap off Clifs, unless you are wearing your grav<BR>
belt and fusion gun. Hava Nagila. Have two, they're small. Take a romantic trip<BR>
on the Love Boa^k^k^k "King Richard". Laugh at the Orrimot. Innoculate against<BR>
Viruses. Walk with Strephon in his fountain, but avoid the shower. Ignore<BR>
smart-assed robots. Book in for a very intense tan at Antares. Perform a random<BR>
act of situation comedy. Don't drink and TML.<BR>
<BR>
But trust me on the dark glasses.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:22:50 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: *everything* tastes like chicken<BR>
<BR>
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
<BR>
>At a time when European settlers were starting to set up <BR>
>homesteads nearby, two Native American were out hunting.  As <BR>
>they went along they came accross a chicken.  The one who had <BR>
>never seen one before was asking about them and the other <BR>
>replied "They taste just like antelope".<BR>
<BR>
OK, now my joke won't seem so off-topic:<BR>
<BR>
Defendant was prosecuted for killing a bald eagle in violation<BR>
of the Endangered Species Act and the Bald Eagle Protection Act.<BR>
 He defended on grounds of necessity, saying that he had gotten<BR>
lost while deer hunting, run out of food, and the only thing he<BR>
could find to eat was a bird, which he shot, and it turned out<BR>
to be an eagle.  He was acquitted.  At an impromptu press<BR>
conference on the courthouse steps, a reporter asked, "so what<BR>
did bald eagle taste like?", to which defendant responded, "it<BR>
was kinda like spotted owl."<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 12:23:59 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
>No, either Moorsyth Engineering, Moorsyth Design or ANRAtech (depending on<BR>
>the time period). For a sample of our fiscal policy, I submit the ANRAtech<BR>
>Trabant-IV, a 170-dTon freighter which can earn back its purchase cost in a<BR>
>mere six years, five months.<BR>
>Nick Bradbeer,<BR>
<BR>
    Ye gods! Does that thing pass the regs?! Forget the idea of passengers,<BR>
you'll have a hard time getting crew! Does it include tankerage fees in the<BR>
business plan?<BR>
    Seriously, I like it. If any PCs are really broke and decide to go off<BR>
and (dare I say it) work for a while, this is the option I'm giving them.<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 01:36:05 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
>But trust me on the dark glasses.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
That's two tears I've had to wipe now in six hours.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:37:22 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
Mon, 03 Jan 2000 16:44:04 -0700<BR>
Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
<BR>
>David P. Summers wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Actually, they are quite a lot of use.  Unless the plane going to<BR>
>> be able to make a gliding landing, your odds with a parachute are<BR>
>> much better.  However, The odds that something will go wrong,<BR>
>> coupled with the odds that it will be something that you have<BR>
>> a chance to use a parachute to avoid, are low enough that it<BR>
>> just doesn't make sense.  The situation is similar to that present<BR>
>> for Traveller.<BR>
>><BR>
>> (Also, lifejackets are required to be carried on board, almost<BR>
>> nobody ever wears thems except children in small craft.  This<BR>
>> would be more akin to stowing a few survival bubbles in the<BR>
>> airlock.)<BR>
<BR>
>Well, the current tred is the development of parachutes for the entire<BR>
>aircraft.<BR>
<BR>
So that if the engines fail the entire aircraft floats down???<BR>
<BR>
> The problem is that the chutes tend to stress the airframe so<BR>
>that it no longer passes FAA inspection (on the order of doing a loop in<BR>
>said Cessna...by FAA rules that airframe is to be broken up as soon as<BR>
>you land, as it is no longer airworthy.)<BR>
<BR>
Isn't asking to save everyone and still have the plane flyable afterward<BR>
asking a bit much?<BR>
<BR>
>But the point about life jackets not being worn by anyone accounts for<BR>
>around 70-90% of the drownings that occur due to small craft sinkings<BR>
>every year. <sigh> Like seatbelts in cars, they work well, but only if<BR>
>you use them.<BR>
<BR>
They do make sense for casual boaters on small craft.  On a liner<BR>
you are never going to see eveyone walking around in life jackets....<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:41:56 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Humanitarianism<BR>
<BR>
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
>If a "vegetarian" is a person who only eats vegetables, then<BR>
>what is a "humanitarian"?<BR>
<BR>
No, when I used to call myself a fairly strict vegetarian, I<BR>
meant that I generally ate only vegetarians (deer, steers,<BR>
etc.).  I actually have always eaten a lot of insectivores, too<BR>
(chicken, turkey).  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
I'm not going to say anything about vegetarian girlfriends.<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 01:55:58 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
>    Ye gods! Does that thing pass the regs?!<BR>
<BR>
Err....ANRAtech's legalattackweasel department has advised me not to<BR>
comment, although I would like to repeat that the investigation after the<BR>
RP12 incident was unable to prove anything.<BR>
<BR>
>Does it include tankerage fees in the<BR>
>business plan?<BR>
<BR>
No, actually. The ship is designed to work the Ley Line (the main on the<BR>
spinward edge of Ley Sector), which has a lot of A and B starports.  It is<BR>
(just about) atmosphere capable, although it'll require an outside cracking<BR>
plant to extract fuel from ground water. Many merchants make a practice of<BR>
buying refined fuel from the port rather than skimming in order to reduce<BR>
transit time to and from the gas giant, so the lack of scoops and processor<BR>
isn't much of a handicap.<BR>
<BR>
Obviously the ship isn't well equipped to open up new trade frontiers, but<BR>
that was never the purpose of the design.<BR>
<BR>
>    Seriously, I like it. If any PCs are really broke and decide to go off<BR>
>and (dare I say it) work for a while, this is the option I'm giving them.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thankyou. It warms my heart to know that I may have assisted another GM in<BR>
being evil to his players.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:25:57 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> over their websites. His company wrote a Cease and Desist letter to a local<BR>
> Used Book store for putting up a Palladium Games poster while they had<BR>
> several dozen items of PG stuff for sale used. He threatened to sue them to<BR>
> force them to stop selling used Palladiumm Books materials. I've READ the<BR>
> letter. The signature matched closely the one in Mechanoid Invasion. The<BR>
> return address and postmark matched. I can't assure it was valid, but it<BR>
> was enough to get them to take down the poster.<BR>
<BR>
Pity they didn't know anything about the law. They could have told him<BR>
where to stuff it. To start with, the fact that he *produces* the<BR>
posters means that he *cannot* prevent them from being displayed. And<BR>
*copyright* law says that *by* copyrighting his products, he has no<BR>
right to prevent people from reselling used copies of his books. <BR>
<BR>
Matter of fact, a lawyer could make a *damn* good case *against* fhim<BR>
based solely on that letter. I think the crime is called "barratry",<BR>
which under *civil* law (it means something else under military law) is<BR>
essentially trying to get someone to quit doing something legal by<BR>
threatening to sue them. <BR>
<BR>
Matter of fact *threatening* to sue someone may qualify on its own.<BR>
There's a difference between telling someone that they are violating<BR>
your legal rights, which may result in legal action if they don't stop<BR>
and telling them you'll sue them if they don't stop. I'm not sure where<BR>
the line is (I'm not a lawyer), but there actually is one, and he's<BR>
*well* past it from your description.<BR>
<BR>
> I remember the rumor mill saying that KS was pursuing the computers upon<BR>
> which web pages were posted... I don't know about that, but I do know that<BR>
> there were several lawsuits by Palladium Games/ K. S. over TM infringement<BR>
> and copyright infringement, reported in Protoculture Addicts.<BR>
<BR>
Trademark law does *not* allow you to forbid people to use your<BR>
trademark. If I want to discuss something about your company or its<BR>
products, there's not a *damn* thing you can do about it until and<BR>
unless I cross the line to libel/slander.<BR>
<BR>
But I have to remember to properly capitalize the trademarked<BR>
words/phrases, and use a "trademark" symbol or otherwise make it clear<BR>
that they *are* trademarks. <BR>
<BR>
That's what most normal companies send out letters about. That you used<BR>
their trademark as if it was a generic term (ie "xerox" for<BR>
"xerographic copy"/photocopy). That sort of thing *has* lost company's<BR>
their trademarks. Aspirin for example. It *used* to be a trademark.<BR>
<BR>
And as for copyright law? To more or less quote a prominent SF author<BR>
"I have to pay taxes so that libraries can loan copies of my work for<BR>
*free*. Copyright law doesn't let me do a damned thing about that,<BR>
about friends loaning books, or secondhand stores selling my books. I<BR>
get *no* money from any of those. Copyright law merely allows my to sue<BR>
if someone starts *printing* copies of my books, or startts trying to<BR>
claim that he wrote them."<BR>
<BR>
KS is the one who should have been receiving "cease and desist" orders.<BR>
<BR>
ps. a telling detail is that these letters are from KS *not* from a<BR>
lawyer. No lawyer in his right mind would send such a letter or allow<BR>
his client to do so. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1654<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1655</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1655<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Re Multi-Genre games...<BR>
Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com>...<BR>
Re: Why I support the combined list...><BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?...<BR>
Re: Doug vs. LL (was GURPS vs. T5)> <BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1654<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Clothes of the 3I (was: Re: party???<BR>
The Traveller Adventure<BR>
Re: Clothes of the 3I (was: Re: party???<BR>
US 1st Amendment (was: Re: Doug vs. LL)<BR>
Posterboys of Pandemonium (was: something else)<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: *everything* tastes like chicken<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:46:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Don't you just love it when someone threatens to sue when they have<BR>
>>absolutely<BR>
>>no legal basis for it<BR>
>>     Glenn St-Germain<BR>
><BR>
>     I'm a big fan of Twilight 2000 and over at the T2K BBS at Town Hall it<BR>
> was put forward that if the owners of the copyright had no plans for the<BR>
> game and wouldn't sell, well, why don't we write our own? Surely you can't<BR>
> copyright World War Three?<BR>
>     An insightful list member pointed out that they can't Win the court case<BR>
> but the can sue you 'till your broke defending yourself. Even if you win.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, if you can show that they are sueing you specifically to hurt<BR>
you financially, over an issue they *know* they are wrong about, you<BR>
can file *criminal* charges. But it's hard to "prove" that sort of<BR>
thing in most cases.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:03:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Kiri wrote (to Doug?)<BR>
><BR>
>>> As a member of the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community,<BR>
>>><BR>
>> I'd no idea that you were Family.  =)<BR>
>><BR>
> I had no idea (and didn't care at all) either. <BR>
> But it changes nothing. <BR>
><BR>
> Y'see Kiri... we're all Family. Humans.<BR>
<BR>
"It's not my planet, monkey-boy!"<BR>
<BR>
<oops, there goes the cover.... :-) ><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:54:25 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>> TSR had Boot Hill and AD&D on the same mechanics by 81,<BR>
<BR>
Not really. But there was a conversion table in the back of the rule<BR>
book, in case you wanted to use cowboys against fantasy critters or<BR>
some such.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:17:41 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Y'see Kiri... we're all Family. Humans.<BR>
> <BR>
> "It's not my planet, monkey-boy!"<BR>
> <BR>
> <oops, there goes the cover.... :-) ><BR>
<BR>
No problem...<BR>
<BR>
Hey, everybody!  Look at this nifty ASCII art!<BR>
 |<BR>
 V<BR>
<BR>
(*)  <<red flash>><BR>
 ^<BR>
/ \<BR>
| |<BR>
| |<BR>
___<BR>
| |<BR>
| |<BR>
| |<BR>
| |<BR>
| |<BR>
|_|<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:18:10 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Multi-Genre games...<BR>
<BR>
I look upon this stuff as "game history" and do not always have the time I<BR>
used to , to track it down... do you have a time-line for any other multi-G<BR>
games?  What time did GURPS come into the world?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net><BR>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 8:39 AM<BR>
Subject: Re Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >>     Actually, I have run, I will run Palladium - Traveller.  I enjoy<BR>
the<BR>
> >> Palladium System, the FIRST Multi-Genre System out there, & you might<BR>
want<BR>
> >> to relook at Palladium, it is in manyways better & more fun than GURPS.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Can you please explain this "first multi-genre game" bit to me? When<BR>
> >did Palladium become multi genre, and with what product?<BR>
><BR>
> Palladium's first offering was Mechanoids. Their next was Palladium<BR>
Fantasy.<BR>
><BR>
> Early 80's. The Mechanoid Invasion, 1981, format: Comic Book, cover price<BR>
> US$3.75<BR>
> Palladium Fantasy came out shortly after, using almost identical rules.<BR>
><BR>
> Hero System had multiple genres by 1985, when I got into it.<BR>
><BR>
> TSR had Boot Hill and AD&D on the same mechanics by 81, and IIRC, gamma<BR>
world.<BR>
><BR>
> Chaosium was going strong in the early 80's... they had several different<BR>
> games in different genres.<BR>
><BR>
> FGU had multiple parallel games well before Mechanoids.<BR>
><BR>
> William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
> interface!"<BR>
> Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
> 533<BR>
> Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
> ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
> IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
> pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:07:16 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com>...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 11:45 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> *Not* seconded.  If I demanded that everyone who made direct promises or<BR>
> indirect comments about killing me be suspended or removed from the list,<BR>
> a couple of the true luminaries would be gone -- including, for that<BR>
> matter, Doug Berry.<BR>
><BR>
> I have a delete key (which I confess I misuse terribly); ignorance is<BR>
> bliss; Legate Legion need trouble me no more!<BR>
><BR>
> Kenji<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Hang on... are you talking sense Kenji?  Since when is that allowed?!?!?!<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
PS:  OT Obs for further self-education; Don't you guys have a "Right to free<BR>
speech" thing in your constitution?  Does it cover things like this?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:42:24 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
To: T M L <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 3:35 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> The reality is that the online Traveller community is already split into<BR>
> different lists.  Off the top of my head, there's the TML, the TNE-RCES<BR>
> list, the Traveller Culture list, the gearhead/Trav-Tech list, a couple<BR>
> different ISBA ship design lists, the HIWG list, and the HIWG writers'<BR>
> list.  Plus, now, the B.A.T. (out of screaming HECK) list.  This seems<BR>
> like a great thing to me, and I wouldn't mind seeing more lists<BR>
> proliferate, if they're narrowly defined and let the TML stay the general<BR>
> mixing bowl.  I'd personally be glad to have G:T rules and techy stuff go<BR>
> elsewhere, I have to say.<BR>
><BR>
> Kenji<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I feel a ground swell here... light, but I feel it.  Don't really think it<BR>
will carry me anywhere new though...?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:59:40 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Frank G. Pitt <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 7:58 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> <snip><BR>
> > & I hate the way GURPS is<BR>
> > thought to be the first multi-genre RPG system, when it really was<BR>
> > Palladium's system.<BR>
><BR>
> Wrong.<BR>
><BR>
> Both Chaosium's system, and the Champions system, went multi-system before<BR>
> Palladium's did.<BR>
><BR>
> Frankie<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<tongue firmly in cheek>  Wow, does this make GURPS the Microsoft of the<BR>
gaming industry?  Microsoft made everyone believe it was the originator of<BR>
the GUI (and with WIN98, of the Internet browser?)... GURPS making people<BR>
believe it was the originator of the multi-g game system??<BR>
<BR>
Time to duck me thinks!<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:17:57 -0600<BR>
From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug vs. LL (was GURPS vs. T5)> <BR>
<BR>
While I certainly can sympathize with this concept, I gotta say no. To put<BR>
it in blunter terms, "Never again". LL says he has his Grandfather's tattoo<BR>
on his arm: I hope so. That _must_ be remembered. But by that same token,<BR>
what he said to Doug and _every_ one of us who has ever submitted an idea of<BR>
a GT book (Yeah, I've gotten playtest credits and I currently have several<BR>
designs in for GT:IN. Hence I too am someone LL wants to see dead. And yes,<BR>
he said that. I _keep_ all my TML messages...)<BR>
<BR>
As he put it, there are too many Family out there who must be protected from<BR>
blindness hate to let any instance pass.<BR>
<BR>
I hope this makes some sense to someone.<BR>
<BR>
William<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
on 1/3/00 7:58 PM, Traveller-digest at<BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 16:16:33 -0800<BR>
> From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: Doug vs. LL (was GURPS vs. T5)<BR>
> <BR>
> Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
>> Please, parties concerned, let's let the excitement of death threats drop,<BR>
>> and not make fools of ourselves with the Normal People.  If DAs qualify as<BR>
>> such.  <BR>
> <BR>
> I second this motion.<BR>
> <BR>
> - -Russell B<BR>
> <BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Live without fear; your Creator loves you     | William Barnett-Lewis<BR>
as a mother. Go in peace to follow the good   | mailto://wlewis@mailbag.com<BR>
road and may God's blessing be with           |<BR>
you always.                                   |<BR>
St. Claire                                    |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:25:06 -0600<BR>
From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1654<BR>
<BR>
DUDE - Please post this to silly era as a great way to explain us all!!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
W.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
And if not, score him 2.0 points anyway... grump...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
on 1/3/00 7:58 PM, Traveller-digest at<BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> My suggestion is this: wait for a while, and everything will settle down.<BR>
> Remember this is a very fast medium, where 3 days is a long time (equivalent<BR>
> to<BR>
> 45 digests, by my count), and things can heat up and cool down within a week.<BR>
> Follow the netiquette suggestions: write your vitriolic reply, get it all out<BR>
> of<BR>
> your system, then count to 10 (or 20, in extreme cases ;-). Bin your response,<BR>
> and write another. If it still contains flames (esp. personal attacks), bin<BR>
> this<BR>
> as well. If you still have a personal problem with someone, just take the time<BR>
> to think, "Oh well, they probably don't get out enough, and haven't learned<BR>
> the<BR>
> social graces", and you'll probably be right, at least with the first bit,<BR>
> since<BR>
> they _are_ a TML reader. [ this was a _joke_, everyone, OK? ;-) ] The final<BR>
> method is to unsub for a week or two, then come back.<BR>
> <BR>
> Be cool. Wear dark glasses. Fly old air/rafts and feel the atmosphere in your<BR>
> hair. Chuckle at the impossibility of iris valves. Avoid grinning at Aslan,<BR>
> unless they are wearing comfortable shoes. Don't land at Alell. Smile at<BR>
> Norris'<BR>
> symbol, since you know he wears it on his codpiece. When you think of this,<BR>
> and<BR>
> Dilgaadin also smiles, wink at him. Take it easy. Don't be afraid of pirates.<BR>
> Remember that the Regina subsector is patrolled by four of those quality<BR>
> vessels, the Kinunirs. Read the Silly Traveller page more often. Wave at<BR>
> Hivers,<BR>
> but avoid the corn dogs. Don't leap off Clifs, unless you are wearing your<BR>
> grav<BR>
> belt and fusion gun. Hava Nagila. Have two, they're small. Take a romantic<BR>
> trip<BR>
> on the Love Boa^k^k^k "King Richard". Laugh at the Orrimot. Innoculate against<BR>
> Viruses. Walk with Strephon in his fountain, but avoid the shower. Ignore<BR>
> smart-assed robots. Book in for a very intense tan at Antares. Perform a<BR>
> random<BR>
> act of situation comedy. Don't drink and TML.<BR>
> <BR>
> But trust me on the dark glasses.<BR>
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
> of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
> position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Live without fear; your Creator loves you     | William Barnett-Lewis<BR>
as a mother. Go in peace to follow the good   | mailto://wlewis@mailbag.com<BR>
road and may God's blessing be with           |<BR>
you always.                                   |<BR>
St. Claire                                    |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:20:57 +1100<BR>
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
Michel Vallaincourt wrote :-<BR>
>        The Canadian Research Council was funding cancer treatment<BR>
> technology based around meson systems in the mid to late 80's... <BR>
<BR>
Positron-electron annihilation, leading to the release of gamma ray<BR>
photons within the tumour mass. A revved up version of SPECT. The<BR>
Traveller meson is a very different can of worms...<BR>
<BR>
Doug Berry wrote :-<BR>
> >> Chemo may be frightening, but<BR>
> >> realistically it's the only chance she has*, and she lives in the nation<BR>
> >> with the best (and among the most aggressive) oncologists in the world.<BR>
> <BR>
> Suddenly picturing my oncologist in battle armor with an axe.  RRaarrgh!<BR>
><BR>
 <BR>
<G><BR>
<BR>
I was referring to the vigour with which said specialists would continue<BR>
to treat the patient.<BR>
In one area health service I used to work in, it was said that coffins<BR>
were nailed shut to prevent Dr. X. from dialysing the person inside.<BR>
	Unfortunately, I have subsequently dealt with consultants that make him<BR>
look like a piker....<BR>
<BR>
> The first time I had a MRI, I realized that I was inside a densinometer.<BR>
> Cool!<BR>
<BR>
It's actually a proton counter in the context of imaging, but the net<BR>
effect is the same because Earthly lifeforms are effectively bags of<BR>
salty water.<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor<BR>
Medico, Gamer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:40:50 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Clothes of the 3I (was: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
I don't think this _has_ been really addressed much.  It came up in<BR>
passing back when the predecessor of TravLang was getting started; there<BR>
seemed to be a few people who had some knowledge & interest in style --<BR>
yes, you can imagine my shock and horror! -- so it could well take off.<BR>
I'd actually be very interested in hearing ideas about any of this stuff,<BR>
since it's outa my league.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
> <BR>
> (Are there any artists or costumers on this list who would be interested<BR>
> in discussing Vilani, Zhodani, or Far Future Solomani art and clothing and<BR>
> homecrafts styles with me, either here or on Trav-Culture?  I am one of<BR>
> the few people I know that actually cares about stuff like that.  My main<BR>
> specific interest right now is what characters wear and how they do their<BR>
> hair, etc...  mostly because I just realized that if I wanted to dress up<BR>
> as a Traveller character I would probably just wear work clothes and if<BR>
> that wasn't appropriate for the character I would be stumped-- except that<BR>
> if I were Zhodani I would wear a big turban, but maybe not cause I'm a<BR>
> girl-type.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:47:23 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: The Traveller Adventure<BR>
<BR>
    Has there ever been an online resource for updating "The Traveller<BR>
Adveture"? A friend is going to run it using TNE rules and he'd like to see<BR>
how the task has been approached before.<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:47:35 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Clothes of the 3I (was: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
On 01/03/2000 21:40, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I don't think this _has_ been really addressed much.  It came up in<BR>
> passing back when the predecessor of TravLang was getting started; there<BR>
> seemed to be a few people who had some knowledge & interest in style --<BR>
> yes, you can imagine my shock and horror! -- so it could well take off.<BR>
> I'd actually be very interested in hearing ideas about any of this stuff,<BR>
> since it's outa my league.<BR>
> <BR>
> Kenji<BR>
> <BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> [snip]<BR>
>> <BR>
>> (Are there any artists or costumers on this list who would be interested<BR>
>> in discussing Vilani, Zhodani, or Far Future Solomani art and clothing and<BR>
>> homecrafts styles with me, either here or on Trav-Culture?  I am one of<BR>
>> the few people I know that actually cares about stuff like that.  My main<BR>
>> specific interest right now is what characters wear and how they do their<BR>
>> hair, etc...  mostly because I just realized that if I wanted to dress up<BR>
>> as a Traveller character I would probably just wear work clothes and if<BR>
>> that wasn't appropriate for the character I would be stumped-- except that<BR>
>> if I were Zhodani I would wear a big turban, but maybe not cause I'm a<BR>
>> girl-type.)<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
One of my Travellers' Digest issues deals with Vilani influence on clothing.<BR>
Whoever did the pics made them look, well, Vilani! I'm surprised no one's<BR>
actually tried to make any costumes.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:57:04 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: US 1st Amendment (was: Re: Doug vs. LL)<BR>
<BR>
The Roc wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> PS:  OT Obs for further self-education; Don't you guys have a "Right to free<BR>
> speech" thing in your constitution?  Does it cover things like this?<BR>
<BR>
**WARNING: Non-attorney layman comments follow**<BR>
<BR>
If you're asking about death threats, then no, the 1st Amendment to the<BR>
US Constitution does not apply.  If you're asking about annoying speech,<BR>
then it does apply.  "Obscenity" is one of those gray areas that the<BR>
Supreme Court seems to do its utmost to rule on definitively.  [As one<BR>
Supreme Court Justice (I forget the name) is quoted as saying of<BR>
obscenity, "I know it when I see it."]<BR>
<BR>
However, other than the "equal [air] time" doctrine that has been<BR>
applied to broadcast editorial comment from the broadcast station's<BR>
ownership or management, there is _no_ right to a public forum for one's<BR>
opinions, at someone else's expense.  Thus, I can write a letter to my<BR>
local newspaper, but the paper is under no obligation to print it.  If I<BR>
want to ensure that my views are widely disseminated, I can always start<BR>
my own newspaper.<BR>
<BR>
Note that syndicated political commentary (such as radio talk show host<BR>
Rush Limbaugh's program) has not been treated as station editorial<BR>
commentary, and has therefore not been constrained (in practice, anyway)<BR>
by any "equal time" doctrine.<BR>
<BR>
**WARNING:  Non-attorney comments precede**<BR>
<BR>
Naturally, if the 3I is a "government of men, not of laws", then such<BR>
legal nitpicking is not present, although nobles may well be bound by<BR>
custom to allow a given level of "free speech."  Similarly, if YTU has<BR>
an equivalent to the Magna Carta, then there are at least some limits to<BR>
Imperial actions, possibly including disallowed (and/or allowed)<BR>
restrictions on "free speech."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:52:03 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Posterboys of Pandemonium (was: something else)<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Great sig line just begging to be used, right there.  Go for it!  Who am I<BR>
> > to discourage you?<BR>
> > <BR>
> A possible contender for the title?  ^_-<BR>
<BR>
Nay!  No more.  My time has passed.  Like coffee beans through Moluccan<BR>
stoats.  I shall content myself with being an irritating and erratic<BR>
cheerleader from the sidelines, much like... well... Yaskoydray.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:56:05 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
<Concerning friends of Dorothy><BR>
<BR>
> Especially for those of us who don't like the Wizard of Oz movie a<BR>
>whole lot, and are not particularly fond of showtunes.<BR>
<BR>
And those of us who aren't Family, but have Family members in our family,<BR>
who absolutely *adore* the Wizard of Oz and can belt out showtunes like<BR>
nobody's business.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, with the way I sing as of late, maybe it *should* be my own<BR>
business. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 20:56:51 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
> It seems a shame that no credit card orders are accepted, ...<BR>
<BR>
I was thinking this myself. It is the only thing that prevented me from<BR>
purchasing a copy tonight as I browsed the site.<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:26:28 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Re: *everything* tastes like chicken<BR>
<BR>
At 08:58 PM 1/3/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:22:50 -0800 (PST)<BR>
>From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
>Subject: *everything* tastes like chicken<BR>
><BR>
>>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
>>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
><BR>
>>At a time when European settlers were starting to set up <BR>
>>homesteads nearby, two Native American were out hunting.  As <BR>
>>they went along they came accross a chicken.  The one who had <BR>
>>never seen one before was asking about them and the other <BR>
>>replied "They taste just like antelope".<BR>
><BR>
>OK, now my joke won't seem so off-topic:<BR>
><BR>
>Defendant was prosecuted for killing a bald eagle in violation<BR>
>of the Endangered Species Act and the Bald Eagle Protection Act.<BR>
> He defended on grounds of necessity, saying that he had gotten<BR>
>lost while deer hunting, run out of food, and the only thing he<BR>
>could find to eat was a bird, which he shot, and it turned out<BR>
>to be an eagle.  He was acquitted.  At an impromptu press<BR>
>conference on the courthouse steps, a reporter asked, "so what<BR>
>did bald eagle taste like?", to which defendant responded, "it<BR>
>was kinda like spotted owl."<BR>
<BR>
Very cute.<BR>
<BR>
obTrav, how about:<BR>
<BR>
>Defendant was arrested by the Imperial Marines in the Imperial game<BR>
preserve on Knorbes and prosecuted for killing a tree kraken in violation<BR>
of the Ministry of Conservation regulations. He defended on grounds of<BR>
necessity, saying he was a tourist, his General Products air/raft's<BR>
guidance system had failed, taking him into the southern continent, he had<BR>
crash-landed, and run out of food,  and the only thing he could find to eat<BR>
was local wild life,  which he shot, and it turned out to be a tree kraken.<BR>
 He was acquitted. At an impromptu press conference on the courthouse<BR>
steps,  _the_ reporter asked, "so what did tree kraken taste like?", to<BR>
which defendant responded, "it was kinda like chirper." <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<spoilers for Kinunir below><BR>
<BR>
<Ref Traveller Adv. 1, the Marines are patrolling Knorbes "conservation<BR>
area" because of the ancient site there. Obviously, he's an ancient<BR>
artifact hunter...><BR>
<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 23:23:54 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
At 06:42 PM 1/3/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
>> > From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
>> > > "One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor...."<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > My keyboard is fine, but the cappuccino on my monitor may take<BR>
>> > several tries to clean off.  Love that tagline, iSteve!<BR>
>><BR>
>> Bit wimpy though, three tequilas ?> Unless he was talking about bottles.<BR>
><BR>
>Probably three pitchers of margaritas, that was my guess.  Of course, some<BR>
>folks think that "two fingers" means the space between their index and<BR>
>pinkie fingers :-)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
        Why?  What do you think it means?<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:13:32 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
At 04:26 PM 1/2/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>Even the Microsoft-bashers don't stoop so low as to base their<BR>
>opinion of MS on the _users_ of MS products. <BR>
<BR>
Would I be in trouble then for basing my opinion of AOL on the users of<BR>
AOL? (No offense meant Seth kimmel, Loren or any one else I may have<BR>
forgotten)<BR>
<BR>
Ditto on the sentiments to the guys at SJG.<BR>
<BR>
>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1655<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1656</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 3 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1656<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: Turbolifts<BR>
Re: Laws of physics<BR>
OT: Exploding Mailboxes<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
Tastes Like Chicken (was Re: Traveller Digest #n)<BR>
Traveller<BR>
Re: Trimkhana-Brilliance<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Trimkhana-Brilliance<BR>
Re: Traveller<BR>
Re: Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com...<BR>
re: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year <BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Traveller Filk Fragments and Twisted ideas<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:58:24 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
At 07:07 PM 1/2/00 EST, you wrote:<BR>
>In a message dated 1/2/00 1:18:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
>wombat@premier.net writes:<BR>
><BR>
><< In response to those who have made personal attacks on Evil Stevie<BR>
> himself, I ask five questions:<BR>
>  >><BR>
><BR>
>Bravo! I too have met him twice. Once at I CON back in the 80's and last<BR>
year <BR>
>I volunteered to work his booth at the GAMA convention. He's a grade A<BR>
mensch <BR>
>(Yiddish for man). I also met Gene Seebolt and David Pulver briefly at GAMA. <BR>
>Also good folks...<BR>
<BR>
Of course, if you listen to S. John Ross over on Usenet, Gene Seabolt is<BR>
either the Anti-Christ, or his younger brother.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:58:09 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Turbolifts<BR>
<BR>
At 03:34 PM 1/3/00 GMT, you wrote:<BR>
>Walt wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>I wouldn't have thought so - the tech is there in Traveller, each lift car <BR>
>being in effect a small grav car operating in an enclosed space (i.e. the <BR>
>shafts).  If you wanted to get really over the top the cars could have their <BR>
>own 'Striker/FF&S' stats.   *grin*<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
If your shafts go all the way to the outer hull, they could double as ecape<BR>
pods/life boats. How much space would an air scrubber take up anyway? Could<BR>
one fit into the wall of a lift car?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:18:42 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Laws of physics<BR>
<BR>
At 01:08 PM 1/3/00 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>BTW games in which people play themselves can be very interesting because<BR>
>of the lack of knowledge people have about how to live in various<BR>
>environments.  I would suck in a medieval setting even with my MA in<BR>
>history because I don't camp even with MODERN equipment. However, I was<BR>
>once disallowed as a Call of Cthulhu character due to my demonstratable<BR>
>skills in the categories of Occult and Mythos knowledge.  Everyone else<BR>
>was allowed to play themselves- but not me.  :P<BR>
><BR>
>Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
Why were you disallowed? I've never played the game. However, from what<BR>
I've heard about it, high Occult and Mythos scores just give your character<BR>
a much shorter life expectancy.<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:34:36 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: OT: Exploding Mailboxes<BR>
<BR>
I just dumped 509 messages from this list out of my trash. This doesn't<BR>
count the messages that I saved. And 3 1/2 hours to read and reply to my<BR>
mail. <BR>
<BR>
Good lord. I need a life.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 23:31:10 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
At 07:38 PM 1/3/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>It seems a shame that no credit card orders are accepted, as I'm sure this<BR>
>will reduce sales and impulse buying somewhat due to the reduced<BR>
>conveniance, especially from non-US.  I assume a secure credit card system<BR>
>is too difficult or inconveniant for Marc to set up. <BR>
<BR>
        Hi, David...<BR>
<BR>
        Its more the issue that the Secure Site Certificate costs ~$400US<BR>
PER YEAR...  then you need the back-end software and a bail of other<BR>
stuff....  Places like _Digital River_ charge a USD600 set up fee and then<BR>
take 10% - 20% per order they handle....  you've gotta be damn sure you're<BR>
gonna make some good coin (USD1000+) to make it worth it....<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
        (who looked at this issue recently for himself)<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:40:05 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
>From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
>Subject: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
...<BR>
>like BITS can arrange to use SJ Games Warehouse 23 ordering system, might<BR>
>Marc also consider making a similar arrangement with SJ Games as well?<BR>
<BR>
  That would be a nice option to have (see below). I assume that all of <BR>
this refers to the info at:<BR>
        http://members.aol.com/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
>I'm also unclear as to whether this will be distributed through stores or<BR>
>only via mail order. The "News" section of Traveller Downport says "let<BR>
>your local game store know" but the early buzz seemed to imply mail order<BR>
>only.<BR>
<BR>
  If I were in the US I'd probably mail-order it direct from Mr. Miller to<BR>
maximize his revenues; given the realities of S&H and customs fees at the<BR>
border I'll either buy it locally or have to get really creative.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:47:17 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000 02:31:50 -0700, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>     And, you forgot the fact that GURPS players will knife you over a GURPS<BR>
> book.  I hate them because of their additude towards the rest of the gamers<BR>
> out there.  I hate M:tG because they keep changing the rules to sell more<BR>
> cards, & I hate Pokemon because of the knifings there as well.<BR>
<BR>
Know what I hate?  People that "hate" so much.<BR>
<BR>
You say that GURPS and SJG produces arrogant players who will "knife you<BR>
over a GURPS book".  It is far more likely that some flaw in your own mind<BR>
makes you see everyone in a way that you "hate".  It's called paranoia.<BR>
<BR>
(and it will destroy ya)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
http://members.home.net/jlindsay                    ICQ:#7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
I'm leaving my body to science fiction.<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 22:47:35 -0500<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
What if anything has prop-driven airliners got to do with being silly? ;)<BR>
<BR>
Thom<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 12:06 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:24 AM 1/3/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >Three months to go before I'm 30 and I'm already a fossil.<BR>
><BR>
> Ha!  My 9-year old niece has never seen an encyclopedia.  To her, the idea<BR>
> of looking up something in a big book is as silly as the thought of<BR>
> prop-driven airliners were to us.<BR>
> --<BR>
><BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:31:07 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Tastes Like Chicken (was Re: Traveller Digest #n)<BR>
<BR>
>>>>Hell, *everything* tastes like chicken. I bet Droyne taste like chicken!<BR>
>><BR>
>>>Actually Droyne tastes like Rattlesnake.   (So I've heard)<BR>
>><BR>
>>but rattlesnake tastes like....ah hell! <wink><BR>
><BR>
>At a time when European settlers were starting to set up homesteads<BR>
>nearby, two Native American were out hunting.  As they went along they came<BR>
>accross a chicken.  The one who had never seen one before was asking about<BR>
>them and the other replied "They taste just like antelope".<BR>
<BR>
Reminds me of a fantasy campaign (GURPS) that I was in some years ago. One<BR>
of the players was playing (as the team brick) a Lizard-Man. (Built with<BR>
the same 100-point total as the rest of us.) His best one-liner:<BR>
<BR>
"I like these white birds you humans eat. They taste just like snake."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:47:13 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Just a small comment regarding the recent spat about different game systems.<BR>
The different versions of Traveller (CT/MT/TNE/T4/GT) all have their fans,<BR>
some of whom look disparagingly at fans of other versions.<BR>
<BR>
But when you get right down to it, what *is* Traveller? The little black books<BR>
with the different careers and survival rolls and mustering-out benefits and<BR>
whatnot? A particular combat and/or skill system?<BR>
<BR>
No. Traveller is The Third Imperium and The Spinward Marches and the Solomani<BR>
Confederacy, the Zhodani and Aslan and Vargr, the K'Kree and Hivers, Droyne,<BR>
Grandfather and the Ancients (what a great name for a rock band, eh?), jump<BR>
drives taking one week per jump. Strephon, Dulinor, Lucan, and Norris. Even<BR>
the dreaded Virus in one version of the timeline.<BR>
<BR>
And this huge, rich campaign background can be played with just about any<BR>
rule system that can handle outer-space RPG settings: CT, MT, TNE, T4, GURPS,<BR>
or even Champions/Hero (I know someone who is doing just that!). Or even<BR>
(gack! ick!) Palladium.<BR>
<BR>
(BTW, is there any truth to the rumour that Palladium has bought the license<BR>
to produce a Pokemon RPG? It's somehow so appropriate...)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:00:52 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Trimkhana-Brilliance<BR>
<BR>
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
...<BR>
>Ah, still working for General Shipyards, I see....<BR>
><BR>
>After the unfortunate mishap which befell Trimkhana-Brilliance in 1106,<BR>
>I'm not surprised to see General Shipyards offering discounts.  Such a<BR>
>tragedy.  217 lives lost.<BR>
<BR>
  But only 214 souls - there was a GS marketing team aboard...<BR>
<BR>
  And then the scumbags had the nerve to blame terrorists for their<BR>
obvious criminal negligence. Gods, why didn't they try something<BR>
original like blaming it on the hyperspatial gravity well of a tiny<BR>
parallel universe or similar nonsense?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:57:27 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/3/00 2:00:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
frankie@mundens.gen.nz writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Reportedly that guy has also repeatedly refused to sell the copyright on<BR>
 Daredevils, Aftermath, & Bushido, either back to Bob & Paul, or to other<BR>
 companies who were willing to republish it.<BR>
 <BR>
 Much like Mr. Sanger. >><BR>
<BR>
I know Scott. He's not nearly as bad as the dark one...:-). <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:00:01 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Ye Yaskoydrays.  What have we created?<BR>
><BR>
> Let me help.  Chris, can you picture the Village People as a buncha<BR>
> Traveller PCs?  Or maybe as representatives of Known Space?<BR>
><BR>
> In fear and trembling,<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure that I'd want to see the Village Sentients, myself. The list<BR>
has proven that it can't handle lesbian Aslan, do you really think that the<BR>
world is ready for flamboyantly homosexual K'Kree? Think before you post<BR>
Kenji. There's a saying that goes something along the lines of "Do not call<BR>
up that which ye cannot put down." I will not be party to your anarchistic<BR>
notions of flamboyant K'Kree flamewar, I'm sorry.<BR>
<BR>
However, the Village People as Traveller character types is right down my<BR>
alley. In fact, my recent derangement has drawn me toward the Village People<BR>
already. I mean, c'mon, they did a song called "In the Navy"! To further<BR>
point out what a frightening world this is, I went out shopping this<BR>
afternoon with a friend of mine who is quite a Village People fan, as well<BR>
as a sometime Traveller player, and we have *already* discussed the<BR>
possibilities.<BR>
<BR>
The military guy is the easiest to deal with, after all, nobody has ever<BR>
accused Traveller of having too few military branches. A guy who switches<BR>
between various military uniforms would not be out of place. He would<BR>
basically stay the same, but would probably look damn good in maroon.<BR>
<BR>
The Indian is obviously a Vargr Raider, of this, there can be no doubt. The<BR>
guy who plays the Indian is part Sioux, and the social structure of the<BR>
Vargr is based on the Lakota Sioux. The rough and ready nature of the cowboy<BR>
is reflected in the hardy and resourceful Scout, so the IISS field agent is<BR>
the obvious choice for the cowboy.<BR>
<BR>
The leather man becomes... Hell, why screw with perfection? The leather man<BR>
remains the leather man. If you're a Classic Traveller player, the leather<BR>
man is also known under those rules as "The Other". The blue collar work<BR>
ethic and sensibilities of the construction worker highlight him as being<BR>
the ancestor of the pragmatic and hard-working merchant.<BR>
<BR>
This leaves us with the cop. As we all know, the Imperium's hands off<BR>
approach to its member worlds means that individual worlds are left to<BR>
handle their affairs however they wish. At best, any interstellar police<BR>
force that would exist would work behind the scenes and probably wouldn't<BR>
have the proper resonance with Imperial citizens that the position of<BR>
Village Person would require. The only logical choice, therefore, would be<BR>
the noble.<BR>
<BR>
I hope that satisfies your purely academic curiosity.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 15:04:50 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Trimkhana-Brilliance<BR>
<BR>
>>After the unfortunate mishap which befell Trimkhana-Brilliance in 1106,<BR>
>>I'm not surprised to see General Shipyards offering discounts.  Such a<BR>
>>tragedy.  217 lives lost.<BR>
<BR>
>  And then the scumbags had the nerve to blame terrorists for their<BR>
>obvious criminal negligence. Gods, why didn't they try something<BR>
>original like blaming it on the hyperspatial gravity well of a tiny<BR>
>parallel universe or similar nonsense?<BR>
<BR>
    I thought it was more of those heat tiles falling off. TL15 and we still<BR>
can't come up with a decent glue.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:01:57 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Funny, I don't use *any* of those things IMTU.  Does that make me a bad<BR>
person?<BR>
<BR>
- -Crusty<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Glenn St-Germain" <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
><BR>
> No. Traveller is The Third Imperium and The Spinward Marches and the<BR>
Solomani<BR>
> Confederacy, the Zhodani and Aslan and Vargr, the K'Kree and Hivers,<BR>
Droyne,<BR>
> Grandfather and the Ancients (what a great name for a rock band, eh?),<BR>
jump<BR>
> drives taking one week per jump. Strephon, Dulinor, Lucan, and Norris.<BR>
Even<BR>
> the dreaded Virus in one version of the timeline.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 14:23:03 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com...<BR>
<BR>
Is this getting to the stage of spam?  Just wondering...<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 7:03 AM<BR>
Subject: Tired of personal bickering? Join xboat@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Are you a GURPS Traveller player?<BR>
><BR>
> Are you looking for intelligent discussion about GT and anything not<BR>
> specific to CT/MT/TNE/T4?<BR>
><BR>
> Are you tired of personal exchanges like the one below?<BR>
><BR>
> Join a MODERATED GURPS Traveller List with an emphasis on low volume and<BR>
> high quality!<BR>
><BR>
> send a blank message to xboat-subscribe@egroups.com<BR>
><BR>
> Thanks much,<BR>
><BR>
> Stu<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Someone wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> > > And please, can we stop using words like "despise" on this list?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > With all due respect [to you] I won't, and it was my post that you seem<BR>
to be<BR>
> > referring to. If there's something I don't like, I'm going to say that I<BR>
> > don't like it. I don't go out of my way to offend people, and I wouldn't<BR>
be<BR>
> > particularly offended if somebody else said that they despise something<BR>
I<BR>
> > like.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > In fact, being a fan of TNE, I've seen it plenty of times. If it looks<BR>
like<BR>
> > someone hates TNE for the wrongs reasons, I'll pipe up. Otherwise, I'll<BR>
> > chalk it up to personal preference and opinion. My statement was in<BR>
> > reference to the main rulebook of T4, and it's true: I really do dislike<BR>
his<BR>
> > style to the point at which using the term "despise" is not only<BR>
accurate<BR>
> > and appropriate.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I'm not sure how to take your comment. Should I simply shut up, and not<BR>
> > comment on something which I feel is relevant to the discussion at hand?<BR>
> > Should I censor my opinions because there's the possibility that someone<BR>
> > might be unhappy because I hate something that they like? Is it the word<BR>
> > itself? Would "d*sp*s*" be better, then? Or should I soften my<BR>
statements,<BR>
> > and in doing so, make them lies?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 15:07:46 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: re: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Black Ice wrote:<BR>
>I vote for Gilbert and Sullivan. Hmmm. "HMS Pinafore" in<BR>
>Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
This was done, ISTR, in a Challenge (April Fools edit?) where Virus took over a<BR>
travelling player's starship, complete with robotic[1] performers.<BR>
<BR>
[1] And no, I don't mean Roger Moore.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:08:34 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On 01/03/00 at 10:05 PM,  "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> Use Aftermath - it's only slow torture :)<BR>
<BR>
>You realize that Aftermath is actually simpler than the AD&D rules ?<BR>
<BR>
>While people complain about the flow-chart in Aftermath, a similar<BR>
>flow-chart for AD&D combat would be at least twice the size.<BR>
<BR>
That's true.  Aftermath wasn't nearly as hard to play as people seem<BR>
to think.  IMO, it needed a better explained task resolution system<BR>
and DAT (Detailed Action Time) was just plain obsessive, but it<BR>
wasn't hard to play.  Of course, I played it fast and loose...just<BR>
like everything else. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:18:48<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year <BR>
<BR>
At 03:43 PM 1/3/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I'm gonna write in Doug's name in the first Luna City mayorial race.<BR>
><BR>
>Hear that, Doug?  Yer gonna be a civil servant!!<BR>
<BR>
Ever read "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"?  hehehehe...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:23:03<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 02:05 PM 1/3/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>At 04:59 PM 1/3/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Yes, I know. My group played Aftermeth for years back in the 80s.<BR>
><BR>
>Is Aftermeth the game one plays in rehab? ;)<BR>
><BR>
>I imagine that there is a d12 involved on the step chart.<BR>
<BR>
2.0<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:24:34<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 05:39 PM 1/3/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>As opposed to Call of Cthulhu:  "OK, guys, let's think about it.  Is<BR>
>there anything at all that we can do to avoid encountering... Things?  <BR>
>Because you all know that if we run into one, that the most we'll accomplish <BR>
>is another nice long stay in Arkham Sanitorium."<BR>
<BR>
I heard about a group that opened a soda fountain.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:32:51<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
At 04:23 PM 1/3/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>I'd be too afraid to see my own brain..God only knows what I'd find..it<BR>
>might even be a........PENGUIN!<BR>
<BR>
actually the coolest two things i've ever seen were a sonogram of my heart,<BR>
and a MRI of my head where all of a sudden I could see my *eyes*.  This<BR>
irises are of a different density from the surrounding tissue, and showed<BR>
up clearly.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:25:55<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
At 07:19 PM 1/1/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Well, it seems that most of the world survived intact. Just one question<BR>
>though; what on earth are we going to do with all these penguins?<BR>
<BR>
No, the question is what are THEY going to do with US...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:08:25<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Filk Fragments and Twisted ideas<BR>
<BR>
At 03:41 PM 1/3/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>Heres some twisted titles for somebody to take and run with<BR>
><BR>
>"Oh Were banned from X-Boat everyone, banned from X-boat just <BR>
>for having a little fun:<BR>
>"We logged in for just a little flamewar or two"<BR>
<BR>
When we pulled into Lunion Port in need of R&R<BR>
Our hardy crew found itself in a little Startown Bar<BR>
Not a Patron anywhere, the drinks alcohol free<BR>
But things looked up as place blew up<BR>
In a twelve sided melee!<BR>
<BR>
Chorus:<BR>
And we're banned from Lunion everyone!<BR>
Banned from Lunion, and now we're on the run<BR>
We all threw a punch or two, from Cap'n to deckhand<BR>
But now our Free Trader has been banned.<BR>
<BR>
Our Captain was the strong-jawed sort, a hero of the skies<BR>
Alas his Int dice had both come up snake eyes<BR>
He's very useful in a fight, strong and huge of frame<BR>
When the cops show up, we run off<BR>
And let him take the blame!<BR>
<BR>
Chorus<BR>
<BR>
Grzzt was our engineer, tall and black of fur<BR>
A Vargr that hails from Ruie with a Glasgow burr<BR>
He loves to brawl what with all the chaos and the fuss<BR>
It's just a pain when he loses his brain<BR>
And begins to pound on us!<BR>
<BR>
Chorus<BR>
<BR>
Tak hangs around our ship, we're not what he does<BR>
He's ex-Army, and can kill with guns or knives or gloves<BR>
While he'll admit that he's dead weight with his trusty ACR<BR>
Down dirstside, he's in his prime<BR>
As he fires in a crowded bar!<BR>
<BR>
Chorus<BR>
<BR>
The Marines showed up all dressed up in shiny new BD<BR>
Menacing the party with Fusion gun-15s<BR>
We had a plan, and it called for an EMP to start<BR>
We zapped that squad and then we ran<BR>
Past ugly Modern Art<BR>
<BR>
Chorus<BR>
<BR>
We're just a small Free Trader, trying to get along<BR>
And maybe when we party, we do a little wrong<BR>
We're sorry about the riots, and the fires and the pain<BR>
So will go and take our next R&R<BR>
On scenic Daryn!<BR>
<BR>
Chorus<BR>
<BR>
(slowly)<BR>
Wonder Why....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
 http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:13:20<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
<BR>
At 07:09 PM 1/3/2000 EST, Loren wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>to task for daring to run an article titled "A Little Recon Mission." I got <BR>
>to write the answer to that one, and had great fun.<BR>
<BR>
I would have forwarded that letter to the USMC 1st Force Recon Association.<BR>
<BR>
>LKW (which does not stand for "landkraftwagen")<BR>
<BR>
considering the mood on this list, you may have given us a challenge here..<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1656<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1657<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Village People in Traveller (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!)<BR>
Re: Keyboard kills & misc <BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: New Group!<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: Traveller Versions - What I Liked and Did Not Like<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
RE: REPOST: Eneri the Eighth (was: Re: Doug at the stake!...)<BR>
RE: SJG bashing<BR>
Gearhead Question<BR>
Re: Low TL<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
A modest proposal (was: Re: MODERATOR and Re: More...)<BR>
Re: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:28:32 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
>However, the Village People as Traveller character types is right down my<BR>
>alley. In fact, my recent derangement has drawn me toward the Village People<BR>
>already. I mean, c'mon, they did a song called "In the Navy"! To further<BR>
>point out what a frightening world this is, I went out shopping this<BR>
>afternoon with a friend of mine who is quite a Village People fan, as well<BR>
>as a sometime Traveller player, and we have *already* discussed the<BR>
>possibilities.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Live, from the OmniDome on Rhylanor -- it's the Subsector People, with their<BR>
latest hit song, "Go Spinward"!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 00:04:01 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Village People in Traveller (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/03/2000 23:00, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm not sure that I'd want to see the Village Sentients, myself. The list<BR>
> has proven that it can't handle lesbian Aslan, do you really think that the<BR>
> world is ready for flamboyantly homosexual K'Kree? Think before you post<BR>
> Kenji. There's a saying that goes something along the lines of "Do not call<BR>
> up that which ye cannot put down." I will not be party to your anarchistic<BR>
> notions of flamboyant K'Kree flamewar, I'm sorry.<BR>
> <BR>
> However, the Village People as Traveller character types is right down my<BR>
> alley. In fact, my recent derangement has drawn me toward the Village People<BR>
> already. I mean, c'mon, they did a song called "In the Navy"! To further<BR>
> point out what a frightening world this is, I went out shopping this<BR>
> afternoon with a friend of mine who is quite a Village People fan, as well<BR>
> as a sometime Traveller player, and we have *already* discussed the<BR>
> possibilities.<BR>
> <BR>
> The military guy is the easiest to deal with, after all, nobody has ever<BR>
> accused Traveller of having too few military branches. A guy who switches<BR>
> between various military uniforms would not be out of place. He would<BR>
> basically stay the same, but would probably look damn good in maroon.<BR>
> <BR>
> The Indian is obviously a Vargr Raider, of this, there can be no doubt. The<BR>
> guy who plays the Indian is part Sioux, and the social structure of the<BR>
> Vargr is based on the Lakota Sioux. The rough and ready nature of the cowboy<BR>
> is reflected in the hardy and resourceful Scout, so the IISS field agent is<BR>
> the obvious choice for the cowboy.<BR>
> <BR>
> The leather man becomes... Hell, why screw with perfection? The leather man<BR>
> remains the leather man. If you're a Classic Traveller player, the leather<BR>
> man is also known under those rules as "The Other". The blue collar work<BR>
> ethic and sensibilities of the construction worker highlight him as being<BR>
> the ancestor of the pragmatic and hard-working merchant.<BR>
> <BR>
> This leaves us with the cop. As we all know, the Imperium's hands off<BR>
> approach to its member worlds means that individual worlds are left to<BR>
> handle their affairs however they wish. At best, any interstellar police<BR>
> force that would exist would work behind the scenes and probably wouldn't<BR>
> have the proper resonance with Imperial citizens that the position of<BR>
> Village Person would require. The only logical choice, therefore, would be<BR>
> the noble.<BR>
> <BR>
> I hope that satisfies your purely academic curiosity.<BR>
> <BR>
ISTR that 20 years ago, when the Village People were at the height of their<BR>
popularity, plans were being made for an animated series based on their<BR>
characters. It was quashed by the networks.<BR>
<BR>
Here's one way the Village People could be introduced into a Traveller<BR>
campaign; perhaps they'd all be members of Terra's Old-Timers Club....and<BR>
once they were revived, they were driven from their homeworld due to certain<BR>
elements in the Solomani Party! So they took their show to the rest of the<BR>
galaxy...as well as their REAL talents in solving mysteries (or somesuch<BR>
thing). Like KORN did on South Park!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:06:38 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Keyboard kills & misc <BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/28/99 6:50 PM, tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I would like to see some good looking men and I would like it if more than<BR>
> one was black and I would especially pretty pretty pretty pretty please like<BR>
> it if any of them were Asian.  And I would like it if there were more<BR>
> attractive body types other than hugely muscular.  Slender is nice on men<BR>
> too.<BR>
<BR>
Well I like buff or plump women, and that isn't all that common. Liking lean<BR>
guys is likewise not as common, so if we can compromise with a diversity of<BR>
ethnics, both genders, and those ranges, we should be fair and let the<BR>
tubbies and sticks wear thongs/tights/what-have-you. Norton gets his sexy<BR>
tights if he wants them.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:15:37 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Bill Rutherford <worj@home.com> wrote:<BR>
>> Filk?  I do not understand the term...<BR>
><BR>
> Go to a Con and ask anyone when and where the filk singing<BR>
> is or will be.  Then go and listen.  If you are lucky, there might<BR>
> be a song book available.<BR>
><BR>
> Doug is a Modern Major General is an example of what you<BR>
> might hear sung.  I believe the entomology of the term is a<BR>
> shortening of Filthy Folk Singing.<BR>
<BR>
Nope. It originated as a misprint in a con program back in the 1950s.<BR>
They printed "filk singing" instead of "folk singing". And, fans being<BR>
fen, it stuck (yes, fans insist that the plural is "fen").<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 23:15:07 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: New Group!<BR>
<BR>
On 01/03/00 at 11:13 PM,  "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:<BR>
<BR>
>On 3 Jan 00, at 1:27, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>         Steven Hudson - a CT person on the G:T list - go figure!<BR>
<BR>
>Had I a functioning credit card I'd be a TNE fan on a G:T list, so <BR>
>there!<BR>
<BR>
There already is at least ONE...sort of.  <g> I lurk on several of<BR>
the lists over there.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 23:18:49 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
On 01/03/00 at 11:16 PM,  Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> >You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
>> >you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
>> >Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
 <BR>
>> OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
 <BR>
>Me me me ME!!!  Can I do it?  PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE?  I've been good!<BR>
<BR>
Certainly, Kira!  Do you have the mullet?<BR>
<BR>
[Picture Kira bashing Kenji over the head with a large fish]<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 23:20:04 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/03/00 at 11:19 PM,  "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>I'd be too afraid to see my own brain..God only knows what I'd find..it<BR>
>might even be a........PENGUIN!<BR>
<BR>
Calm down Jory, or we'll have to break out the mullet for you too!<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:25:31 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca> wrote:<BR>
> >It seems a shame that no credit card orders are accepted, as I'm sure<BR>
this<BR>
> >will reduce sales and impulse buying somewhat due to the reduced<BR>
> >conveniance, especially from non-US.  I assume a secure credit card<BR>
system<BR>
> >is too difficult or inconveniant for Marc to set up.<BR>
><BR>
>         Hi, David...<BR>
><BR>
>         Its more the issue that the Secure Site Certificate costs ~$400US<BR>
> PER YEAR...  then you need the back-end software and a bail of other<BR>
> stuff....  Places like _Digital River_ charge a USD600 set up fee and then<BR>
> take 10% - 20% per order they handle....  you've gotta be damn sure you're<BR>
> gonna make some good coin (USD1000+) to make it worth it....<BR>
<BR>
Well, there are folks that will set you up for nothing and only<BR>
charge 10-15% per order.  I suppose I really should mention<BR>
this to Marc.  One that I have had some dealings with is<BR>
http://www.ibill.com/<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 23:28:04 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Versions - What I Liked and Did Not Like<BR>
<BR>
On 01/03/00 at 11:22 PM,  scharlto@ifsna.com said:<BR>
<BR>
>People can like or hate what they like.  Very few people agree with all<BR>
>of my likes or dislikes, so I reptty much don't worry about it any more.<BR>
<BR>
Well, said, Steve!  All the versions have their good and bad points<BR>
and as I've said before the games we play are *all* in our own<BR>
personal version (or vision) of Traveller.  <BR>
<BR>
Dare I say it again?  Sure, why not.  We are all Traveller heretics<BR>
in *someone's* TU, so let's value our differences.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:26:59 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella <xrp@sierratel.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Via electronic medium on 12/25/99 3:50 PM, Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net<BR>
> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > "Cylons" (described in BG as a lizard like race)<BR>
><BR>
> Note this is the "book" version, and not TV, where they were robots. I<BR>
> preferred the book. But the TV Cylon voices were /cool/.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, in the TV series, the Cylons were described as a<BR>
lizard-like race.  Who created the robots, who were not true<BR>
Cylons.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:21:44 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: REPOST: Eneri the Eighth (was: Re: Doug at the stake!...)<BR>
<BR>
Now wait a sec, I thought there WERE other verses, aside from "2nd verse,<BR>
same as the 1st".......<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Black ICE<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 11:17 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: REPOST: Eneri the Eighth (was: Re: Doug at the stake!...)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> Outstanding!  If I'd seen it before, I must have forgotten it, but<BR>
something<BR>
> THAT cool & funny I'dve remembered (I hope ;)  Just wish the rest of the<BR>
> verses were filled out [subtle hint, applied via sledgehammer]<BR>
<BR>
Well, considering that the only other verse consists of the line,<BR>
"Second verse, same as the first!", followed by a repeating of the first<BR>
verse, then the ending that I posted, everything _is_ here.  (Or, at<BR>
least, it's in this thread, since I'm snipping the rest of this post for<BR>
brevity's sake in the digest.)<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:26:47 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
Not sure of actual timetable of festivities =)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Evyn MacDude<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 11:55 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Hey Kiri, you going to be at the next BayCon for Doug's "Strephon Silver<BR>
> Jubilee" party?<BR>
<BR>
Is that gonna be after the K'Kree roast?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:35:49 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Gearhead Question<BR>
<BR>
    I saw a reference in an ealier post to different sorts of airlocks, is<BR>
this a TNE/T4/GURPS thing? Can someone enlighten a poor old MTer about these<BR>
if thats the case?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:33:51 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Low TL<BR>
<BR>
Clifford N Linehan <cnl.rubicon@juno.com> wrote:<BR>
> Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 00:34:43 PST From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
> Erickson)<BR>
> >TL-1 is "Bronze Age to Middle Ages" in my copy of the Traveller Book.<BR>
> >Such tech is capable of *maintaining* an asteroid colony. Just barely.<BR>
> "Now son, always remember when the floating wagon no longer floats,<BR>
> consult the good book and follow the words of Saint Tim Taylor."<BR>
><BR>
> With a supply of spare parts and the understanding of diagnostics and<BR>
> proper replacement a TL-1 can maintain any TL. Without one of the three,<BR>
> the higher tech systems will end up failing at some future date causing<BR>
> the death of all inhabitants.<BR>
<BR>
There are tools capable of replicating themselves, even<BR>
today, even 20 or 30 years ago.  If the inhabitants have a<BR>
MFF-10 (Mobile Fabrication Facility - see CSC p 7-8) or<BR>
even a SFF-10 (Stationary FF), with a back up unit and the<BR>
manuals, they could maintain TL10 stuff w/o any<BR>
understanding of the stuff they are maintaining.<BR>
<BR>
High Priest continues, "But most important son, if the<BR>
Primary FF ever fails to produce the desired results, activate<BR>
the Secondary FF and do Ceremony Number One*."<BR>
<BR>
"Ceremony Number One?" asks his heir apparent in awe.<BR>
<BR>
"Yes," says the High Priest, "Ceremony Number One is the<BR>
holiest and least common of all the Sacred Ceremonies,<BR>
it causes the old Primary to be consumed and a new<BR>
Secondary to be created and elevates the old Secondary to<BR>
Primary status.  The Secondary is never to be used for<BR>
anything else until it is properly consecrated as the new<BR>
Primary."<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:36:47 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
>... [G]aming is something I do for fun, not to<BR>
> work on my personality flaws.  I want to play characters whose problems<BR>
are<BR>
> DIFFERENT from my real life problems, as I tried to explain to a D & D ref<BR>
> when I told him that I wasn't interested in being in his campaign because<BR>
> everyone had to start out REALLY poor because that's the way most people<BR>
> were back then.  At that time I was living on a teaching assistant's<BR>
stipend<BR>
> and my boyfriend had lost his job.  Going to a game and facing dire<BR>
poverty<BR>
> was not the escape I needed.  (As if people back then often possessed the<BR>
> capacity to cast spells with visible effects...)  So for me, personally,<BR>
> there are some types of characters I just don't want to play.  Now there<BR>
is<BR>
> a wide variety of characters that I will play.  But... I do have the right<BR>
> to a game that is fun for me as well as for the ref, and if I don't get<BR>
it,<BR>
> I'll vote with my feet.  (Doesn't mean you're a bad ref, just means that<BR>
> what I want to do and what you want to do aren't compatible.)<BR>
<BR>
This, IMO, is the best way to handle things.  Explain your<BR>
objections to the GM and if they will not change to make you<BR>
happy, find a GM whose style is more to your liking or is<BR>
willing to change sufficiently to make you happy.<BR>
<BR>
Back when I played D&D, no one in our circle wanted to play<BR>
clerics.  We had a couple of players who would play Druids,<BR>
but no one wanted to play a cleric.  In one campaign, since I<BR>
came in last, I was forced to play a cleric.  My character,<BR>
being a cleric was forced to take a support role (as is<BR>
appropriate for clerics), and I didn't have much fun.  Most of<BR>
the treasures we found were proscribed to clerics and when<BR>
we did find items that a cleric could use, the Druid usually<BR>
grabbed them.  I told the DM that if he wanted me to continue<BR>
playing a cleric, he would have to see to it that my character<BR>
received some special dispensations or he would need to<BR>
find someone else to play the cleric.<BR>
<BR>
The DM saw the wisdom to my suggestion and admitted that<BR>
he knew I wasn't happy and why and that if I would hang in for<BR>
a few more sessions that he would make it up to me.<BR>
<BR>
At the end of the adventure that we were on, he told the other<BR>
players that they could treat my PC as an NPC for religious<BR>
contribution purposes (that really helped the old building<BR>
fund).  On the way to the next adventure, my PC's patron<BR>
showed up, gave my PC a special weapon and told the other<BR>
PCs they had better start showing more respect to the<BR>
chosen one or else.  We were even given a map to the "Lost<BR>
Treasure of the High Priest Mylon" with the warning that all the<BR>
mundane treasure was to be divided evenly, but that<BR>
everything else was to go to it's rightful heir (my PC).<BR>
<BR>
On our next adventure when the Druid grabbed a Pearl of<BR>
Wisdom (as he had done before) before the proper division<BR>
time for treasure, his Wis went down by 2, but the Pearl<BR>
didn't disintegrate.  That 2 point reduction placed him below<BR>
the requisite Wis for a Druid.  He went the rest of that<BR>
adventure as a mediocre fighter, no Druidic spells, no<BR>
Druidic talents, no Druidic bonuses, no Druidic anything.  I<BR>
kind of felt sorry for him until after the adventure was over.<BR>
<BR>
When it came time to divide the spoils, my character got first<BR>
choice.  When it came his time, the Druid chose the best<BR>
stuff for a Cleric, even passing up some stuff that would have<BR>
benefited a Druid more.  I was kind of miffed until after all the<BR>
choosing was over and he gave all of those choice items to<BR>
my PC and apologized for being so grabby.  As soon as he<BR>
made the gift and apology, he received an increase in his<BR>
Wis of 1 point (sufficient to allow him to be a Druid).<BR>
<BR>
I found out later that his PC had had a dream telling him the<BR>
only way to get back to Druidic status was by doing just what<BR>
he did.  The Pearl of Wisdom was among the things he gave<BR>
my PC and it bestowed a 2 point increase to his Wis (to<BR>
make up for the earlier Pearl that had been placed there for<BR>
my character, and grabbed by the Druid).<BR>
<BR>
In the next adventure, my PC got a prismatic dragon* for a<BR>
familiar.  Between the gifts and getting first choices, he<BR>
finally got some decent protection (Cloak of Displacement,<BR>
Ring of Protection, Bracers of Defense, etc.) so that with his<BR>
special weapon, he could actually hold his own in most fights<BR>
and became a character that was okay to play.<BR>
<BR>
    * I believe that's what those little beasties were called.<BR>
      Perhaps you know what I'm talking about, they look<BR>
      just like a dragon, but are only c. 1.5' (46 cm) long.<BR>
<BR>
The DM was happy, because the party did need a Cleric, I<BR>
was happy because I got a character that could actually do<BR>
something besides heal wounds and the other players didn't<BR>
really mind, because when it came right down to it, they all<BR>
knew that I had been getting a raw deal.<BR>
<BR>
The moral to the story, if you don't like the way the D/GM is<BR>
running a game, explain it to them, privately and perhaps<BR>
they will make it right.  If not, find another D/GM to play with.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:37:20 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs Trav<BR>
<BR>
SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:<BR>
> At 4:03 -0500 2/1/00,  "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
> >GDW, DGP and the various licensees who have contributed to the<BR>
> >Traveller Universe over the years are all gone now. The products are out<BR>
of<BR>
> >print, they're available only to collectors, they're available only<BR>
> >to people who know what they're looking for.<BR>
><BR>
> </FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=8><SMALL><SMALL><SMALL><BR>
> Please sir, we're still here....<BR>
> http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
> 7 101 Books, 2 Adventures, a Bibliography, MacOS software, free<BR>
> archive materials all in print<BR>
> All flavours of Traveller supported<BR>
> </FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></SMALL></SMALL><BR>
<BR>
While I haven't purchased any of the hard copy materials<BR>
(yet), the archive materials are excellent and have given me<BR>
sufficient encouragement to purchase stuff from BITS sight<BR>
unseen.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:37:38 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Clint Williams <aremis@amaonline.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
>... My point is<BR>
> gamer's seem to be more sectarian than Christians, Moslems, or Socialist.<BR>
> Each little faction is convinved only they have the correct<BR>
interpretation.<BR>
> Time that would be better spent trying to get people to game with is spent<BR>
> bickering over pointless differences.<BR>
><BR>
> As for CCGs, I do not believe my nephew has ever been involved in a<BR>
knifing<BR>
> or that he would be over mere cards.   I tend to believe most involved w/<BR>
> them are not that insane.<BR>
<BR>
I would have to agree.<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone remember the movie _Monsters and Mazes_<BR>
(or was that the other way around)?  In real life, stuff<BR>
happens.  The stuff that happens in real life has nothing to do<BR>
with the games that people play.<BR>
<BR>
Just because some rug rat was unbalanced and committed<BR>
a crime over some cards, does NOT make the cards the<BR>
problem, just like just because someone is unbalanced and<BR>
does something like was portrayed in said movie does not<BR>
make RPGs the problem.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:38:08 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: A modest proposal (was: Re: MODERATOR and Re: More...)<BR>
<BR>
In the past we have discussed alternate legal systems here<BR>
on the TML.  What I propose is a solution drawn from one or<BR>
more of those.  Rather than killing Legate Legion (i.e. kicking<BR>
him off the list), I propose we shun him for a period of one<BR>
month.<BR>
<BR>
If everyone ignores him for a month that might be sufficient<BR>
punishment to deter him from such a childish and uncultured<BR>
act in the future.<BR>
<BR>
You can signify your concurrence with this penalty by simply<BR>
ignoring everything he publishes for the next month.  By<BR>
ignore I mean do not publicly acknowledge his presence in<BR>
this forum.  Do not respond to anything he says, pretend that<BR>
he simply is not.  Today is the 3rd, it will take some of us a<BR>
few days to get the word, so I would say utterly ignore him<BR>
until after Sunday, the 6th of February.<BR>
<BR>
In my eyes, Legate Legion is dead until the 6th of February.  I<BR>
will not respond to him or to anyone who quotes him for that<BR>
period.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:38:43 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Query re: T5 rules<BR>
<BR>
<CardSharks@aol.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> T5 is in draft form. It makes extentive use of +D-D to randomize outcomes<BR>
> (like damage), and thus breaking damage out of a relatively narrow range.<BR>
It<BR>
> makes it possible (though not likely) that 5D hits could actually do<BR>
nothing<BR>
> (or at the other end, do 5x6+5).<BR>
><BR>
> But +D-D isn't supposed to have an overwhelming effect.<BR>
><BR>
> Marc Miller<BR>
<BR>
I might mention to those who have a problem with +D-D that<BR>
you get the same range by rolling 2D-7.  Marc will probably<BR>
tell you that +D-D is more intuitive but I will say that 2D-7 is<BR>
easier.  I'm just hoping that MWM will mention this simplified<BR>
approach in his special (not optional) rules section.  :-)<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1657<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1658</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	1/3/00 11:03:13 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1658<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Big Ben (Was:  Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message)<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
RE: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: Fashion and Art in the 3I.<BR>
RE: party???<BR>
RE: Multi-Genre games<BR>
RE: party???<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
RE: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
RE: party???<BR>
Re: little ships<BR>
Re: Legate Legion<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:39:19 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Big Ben (Was:  Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message)<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>> From: Jason T. Barnabas <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
>> I have a question about that particular clock.  How many<BR>
>> faces does it have on which you can read the time?<BR>
<BR>
> errr.... is this a trick question?<BR>
<BR>
No.<BR>
<BR>
> If not then the answer is four, one on each side.<BR>
><BR>
> Why do you ask?<BR>
<BR>
Because in the photos I've seen, only one face shows.<BR>
Since I've never it from any angle but straight on, I didn't<BR>
know.  I've seen clock towers than only have a clock on<BR>
one or two faces, so past experience was no proof.<BR>
<BR>
Thank you for the information.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:37:04 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
No, no kids, so I'm Pokemon free!  :)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Frank G.<BR>
Pitt<BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 3:01 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Have you, by chance, seen "Billy Madison"?<BR>
> <BR>
> "I see you, Penguin!!"<BR>
<BR>
Have you seen "Pokemon" ?<BR>
<BR>
"Penguin, I choose you !"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:37:10 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
<BR>
Now now.  I have the DVD as well, but didn't rub it in TO THOSE POOR<BR>
UNFORTUNATE SLOBS WHO HAVEN'T GONE TO DVD YET....er, ahem, 'scuz me, that<BR>
slipped ;)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Frank G.<BR>
Pitt<BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 3:03 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: RE: There is one (was RE: MODERATOR)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > OoooOOOOOoooo, another Highlander fan!  (the original movie that is!!!)<BR>
> > Jesse<BR>
><BR>
> The first one was very cool, no doubt about it. Pity about no 2 and 3 :(<BR>
<BR>
I got the DVD !<BR>
I Got the DVD !<BR>
Nah nah na nah na !<BR>
<BR>
It's got a whole track full of stills, and all the usual director voice<BR>
overs and stuff, plus seperate audio tracks.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 00:45:38 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
Let him know that The Traveller Trader on Downport.com will do it for half<BR>
that ;-)<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
> Well, there are folks that will set you up for nothing and only<BR>
> charge 10-15% per order.  I suppose I really should mention<BR>
> this to Marc.  One that I have had some dealings with is<BR>
> http://www.ibill.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 00:51:00 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fashion and Art in the 3I.<BR>
<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> (Are there any artists or costumers on this list who would be<BR>
> interested in discussing Vilani, Zhodani, or Far Future Solomani art<BR>
> and clothing and homecrafts styles with me, either here or on Trav-<BR>
> Culture?  I am one of the few people I know that actually cares about<BR>
> stuff like that.<BR>
<BR>
And here I thought that I was the only one!<BR>
<BR>
I am an artist, however, at least some of the time. Further, I also have an<BR>
interest in art history, industrial design, architecture (at least as far as<BR>
decorative architecture goes). There was a discussion on Imperial fashions<BR>
quite some time ago, but it died pretty quickly.<BR>
<BR>
> My main specific interest right now is what characters wear and how<BR>
> they do their hair, etc...  mostly because I just realized that if I<BR>
wanted<BR>
> to dress up as a Traveller character I would probably just wear work<BR>
> clothes and if that wasn't appropriate for the character I would be<BR>
> stumped-- except that if I were Zhodani I would wear a big turban,<BR>
> but maybe not cause I'm a girl-type.)<BR>
<BR>
That's a tought question, a good one, but a tough one. On one hand, every<BR>
world is likely to have their own aesthetic tastes. On the other, if you're<BR>
anything like me, you might think that there is a higher degree of<BR>
"standardization" once you get into the jumpsetter "elite". This is what I<BR>
call Imperial Culture, and it is a distinct entity from the cultures that<BR>
exist within the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Concerning specific fashions and styles, it's really up to you. Someone did<BR>
do an Imperial KiSS[1] quite some time ago. I've lost it, and I've never<BR>
seen it on any KiSS doll pages. I think it contained mostly adventuring type<BR>
outfits.<BR>
<BR>
In my own Traveller universe, I really go to town and utilize high<BR>
technology in the fashions I imagine and describe. Clothing made from edible<BR>
and fungi, outfits which are genetically designed and tailored, datacloth,<BR>
high-tech papers and odd synthetic materials tend to show up quite<BR>
frequently in my games. These kind of things might be difficult to come up<BR>
with here on Terra these days! :)<BR>
<BR>
The basic item of clothing for adventuring types in my traveller universe is<BR>
the bodysuit. I know, that's awfully cliched. However, it does make sense.<BR>
Would you rather have a ballroom gown or a skintight bodysuit when your hull<BR>
gets ruptured? Of course, a bodysuit, no matter how utilitarian, doesn't<BR>
have to be bland, nor does it have to be unfashionable. You've said that<BR>
you're a fan of anime, so I think you've probably seen enough funky<BR>
bodysuits and such to know what I'm talking about. :)<BR>
<BR>
I also like the asymmetrical placement of highly stylized corporate and<BR>
family logos or mascots. If you can imagine a brightly banded bodysuit, with<BR>
an image of Hello Kitty placed halfway on the left thigh, and the words<BR>
Hello Kitty down the right arm in a nearly unreadable font, then you've got<BR>
a picture of the sort of thing I imagine adventurers might be decked out in.<BR>
<BR>
For high fashion, it varies from year to year and month to month, and how<BR>
far you happen to be from Core. Different regions in the Imperium have<BR>
different fashion centers, but at least in my TU Core is, by far, the most<BR>
influential.<BR>
<BR>
I do have certain biases when I draw. I like skirts and dresses, so they<BR>
still exist in my Traveller universe. They're not always on females,<BR>
however. :)<BR>
<BR>
To go a step further, contra-gravity and holography would both be<BR>
fascinating to fashion designers. Imagine the stuff that people will come up<BR>
with when they don't have to worry about *gravity* anymore. Also interesting<BR>
are the kinds of things that people might do to make outfits for *specific*<BR>
gravities.<BR>
<BR>
Heh. Fashion designers with multi-million dollar R&D budgets. I like that<BR>
idea.<BR>
<BR>
When it comes to hair in my Traveller universe shorter tends to be better.<BR>
While there are practical reasons for this, I must admit that my aesthetic<BR>
interest in girls with short hair is also a factor. Again, this doesn't mean<BR>
that hairstyles have to be drab, there's a lot that can be done with short<BR>
hair, shaved hair and there's plenty that can be done to the head if all the<BR>
hair's gone.<BR>
<BR>
For more formal situations, for men and women, I tend to imagine really<BR>
exotic and elaborate hairstyles. Sometimes, even a bald head in the proper<BR>
social circles can really shake things up and make a statement.<BR>
<BR>
Beyond that, I'm not an enemy of body modification. Geez, no matter how<BR>
Traveller I try to die my hair, my cyberpunk roots seem to show through! :)<BR>
<BR>
The high-tech nature of the Imperium makes all kinds of things possible,<BR>
even if the standard Traveller "party line" is to scoff at cybernetics and<BR>
biotech. If you're not adverse to GURPS, David Pulver's got some nifty<BR>
concepts in his "Tech" series which can be hammered into cool fashions<BR>
ideas.<BR>
<BR>
Although I'm not really that much of an anime fan, I do think that the<BR>
Japanese have the Americans beat for sci-fi fashion. Actually, the Japanese<BR>
have a pretty nifty fashion sense all around. However, I *did* really like<BR>
the outfits in the first part of the recent (otherwise mediocre) Lost In<BR>
Space movie.<BR>
<BR>
For coming up with a costume, for the most part, anything is possible. The<BR>
Imperium is really *vast*, so it's likely that all sorts of styles are<BR>
represented.<BR>
<BR>
For some interesting fashion ideas, I'll point you toward "The Artificial<BR>
Kid", "Schismatrix" and *especially* "Holy Fire", all of which are by Bruce<BR>
Sterling.<BR>
<BR>
I'd be very interested to continue this discussion, either here or on the<BR>
Trav Culture list.<BR>
<BR>
[1] I'm making the assumption that since you're a doll fan and an anime fan,<BR>
you probably at least have a passing familiarity with the KiSS computerized<BR>
paper doll standard. If I've assumed incorrectly, that's pretty much it.<BR>
It's a computerized paper doll standard which can be acquired at<BR>
http://www.otakuworld.com/ under "The Big Kiss Page" link.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:02:22 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
Scouts are easy too!  Flight suit with vest ;)  This is probably what I'll<BR>
be in (or a variation of such) when I'm not in Combat Armor [assuming I get<BR>
it done].<BR>
<BR>
As an example, I give you:<BR>
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/ash_inprogress.htm<BR>
<BR>
I've got everything to make this outfit, except I've got about 20 (or more)<BR>
extra pounds at a minium [sheepish grin] more than the picture.  Closer to<BR>
50!  I DO fit into the flightsuit, and I DO fit into the vest, but I really<BR>
oughta' back off the pizza & beer, and get back on my bicycle :D<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia<BR>
Morgan<BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 9:52 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: party???<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Forgot to answer...<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > Hey Kiri, you going to be at the next BayCon for Doug's "Strephon Silver<BR>
> > Jubilee" party?<BR>
><BR>
Now that I know about it, I'm not only planning to be there, I'm trying to<BR>
figure out what Lady Julissa would wear to that-- by Baycon should be<BR>
enough time to get that outfit together!<BR>
<BR>
(Are there any artists or costumers on this list who would be interested<BR>
in discussing Vilani, Zhodani, or Far Future Solomani art and clothing and<BR>
homecrafts styles with me, either here or on Trav-Culture?  I am one of<BR>
the few people I know that actually cares about stuff like that.  My main<BR>
specific interest right now is what characters wear and how they do their<BR>
hair, etc...  mostly because I just realized that if I wanted to dress up<BR>
as a Traveller character I would probably just wear work clothes and if<BR>
that wasn't appropriate for the character I would be stumped-- except that<BR>
if I were Zhodani I would wear a big turban, but maybe not cause I'm a<BR>
girl-type.)<BR>
<BR>
> Is that gonna be after the K'Kree roast?<BR>
><BR>
LOL.  Actually in the G:T stuff the K'Kree look kind of sweet but I<BR>
remember really having problems with them in campaigns....<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
**<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:07:34 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
It only gets worse I'm afraid (I'm 33 in Feb.)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Kelly<BR>
St.Clair<BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 10:24 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:47:06 +1300, "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> I have a 1st edition AD&D DM's Guide (1979 printing, the year of my<BR>
birth)<BR>
><BR>
>Now I feel old.<BR>
><BR>
>I remember waiting and waiting for that to come out...<BR>
<BR>
I had the same experience yesterday.  I was down at my local FLG(and<BR>
comics)S when I overheard two boys (of the sort that usually come in to buy<BR>
Pokemon).  One of them was explaining to the other that a certain comic was<BR>
about the "old OLD Star Wars"... referring, apparently, to the movie that I<BR>
saw in 1977 when I was about their age.<BR>
<BR>
Three months to go before I'm 30 and I'm already a fossil.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair   "The Jigglypuff's trilling seems to have a<BR>
kellys@efn.org    tranquilizing effect on the human nervous system.<BR>
                  Fortunately, I am... immune..."<BR>
                            -- Mr. Spock, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:07:27 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
ROFLMAOM!!!!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
I MUST try that marinade!<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Black ICE<BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 10:13 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> > Is that gonna be after the K'Kree roast?<BR>
> ><BR>
> LOL.  Actually in the G:T stuff the K'Kree look kind of sweet but I<BR>
> remember really having problems with them in campaigns....<BR>
<BR>
Well, it all depends on the marinade you use....<BR>
<BR>
I like to marinate K'Kree in a mix of Worcestershire sauce and beer,<BR>
with a couple dashes of Tabasco.  Not "sweet", but tasty.  K'Kree make<BR>
good pot roast, too.  (I use a Crock Pot [tm].)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 01:16:54 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
From: Jason T. Barnabas <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<concerning roleplaying insanity creeping in from outside><BR>
<BR>
> I would have to agree.<BR>
><BR>
> Does anyone remember the movie _Monsters and Mazes_<BR>
> (or was that the other way around)?  In real life, stuff<BR>
> happens.  The stuff that happens in real life has nothing to do<BR>
> with the games that people play.<BR>
<BR>
It was "Mazes and Monsters", and it was based on the book of the same name<BR>
by Rona Jaffe. Neither the book nor the movie are based in fact. Further,<BR>
both are absoluterly *shameless* pieces of anti-gaming propaganda. Keep in<BR>
mind that while the character that Tom Hanks played was having family and<BR>
emotional problems outside of the Mazes and Monsters game, it was the game<BR>
that gave him the final push him "over the edge".<BR>
<BR>
Both the book and the movie end with the rest of the characters leaving<BR>
roleplaying games behind them as they realize that playing RPGs is akin to<BR>
playing with fire.<BR>
<BR>
"Mazes and Monsters", in both forms, is riddled with all kinds of nasty<BR>
anti-gamer propaganda. The absurdly deep emotional involvement of players<BR>
with regard their characters (which goes far beyond anything that even those<BR>
who enjoy RPGs as ersatz psychotherapy feel) and the highly ritualized<BR>
gaming space are among the worst. "Mazes and Monsters" is sort of like a<BR>
non-religious version "Dark Dungeons" (a particularly evil and nasty piece<BR>
of anti-gaming propaganda).<BR>
<BR>
I've snipped the rest about these knifings which supposedly happened among<BR>
Pokemon players over cards. Pokemon and youth violence are both really hot<BR>
topics in the news media, and I'm sure that we would have heard about the<BR>
"Pikachu knifings" until we were all groaning... even if the incident was a<BR>
relatively minor one.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:37:52 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>"Mazes and Monsters", in both forms, is riddled with all kinds of nasty<BR>
>anti-gamer propaganda. The absurdly deep emotional involvement of players<BR>
>with regard their characters (which goes far beyond anything that even<BR>
those<BR>
>who enjoy RPGs as ersatz psychotherapy feel) and the highly ritualized<BR>
>gaming space are among the worst. "Mazes and Monsters" is sort of like a<BR>
>non-religious version "Dark Dungeons" (a particularly evil and nasty piece<BR>
>of anti-gaming propaganda).<BR>
<BR>
    If there's anything that riles me, it's button down brain idiots like<BR>
the freaks who think RPGing is mind control but lie and fabricate just like<BR>
the imaginary evil cults they state they oppose. I get incoherent thinking<BR>
about it, I suggest anyone wanting factual ammunition when confronting<BR>
these fools go to:<BR>
http://www.religioustolerance.org/d_a_d.htm<BR>
    jim (Grrrrrr)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:43:21 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
>>You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
>>you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
>>Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
><BR>
>OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
<BR>
You mean someone's gotta get close enough to ManicKenji(TM) to force a<BR>
needle in him? Or worse, make him swallow momma's little yellow helper??? ;)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:40:29 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
Kelly St.Clair <kellys@efn.org> wrote:<BR>
> I had the same experience yesterday.  I was down at my local FLG(and<BR>
> comics)S when I overheard two boys (of the sort that usually come in to<BR>
buy<BR>
> Pokemon).  One of them was explaining to the other that a certain comic<BR>
was<BR>
> about the "old OLD Star Wars"... referring, apparently, to the movie that<BR>
I<BR>
> saw in 1977 when I was about their age.<BR>
><BR>
> Three months to go before I'm 30 and I'm already a fossil.<BR>
<BR>
Did you listen to people your age when you were their age?<BR>
<BR>
As a nearly 30 year old, you should only listen to people who are c. 30 or<BR>
maybe a little older.  As a 30 something myself, I can assure you that you<BR>
are not old.  If you don't believe me, ask some of the older members of this<BR>
list.<BR>
<BR>
When will these young pups ever learn?<BR>
<BR>
Oh, excuse me, are you still here?<BR>
<BR>
Take my word for it.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:37:53 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
Which is why I left the response to you, as I knew you could do it far<BR>
better justice than I :)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Why, yes, I'm a bug on the subject.<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:48:12 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
All of it sounds good to me!!!  Dammit, it's almost bedtime and here I am<BR>
craving some SERIOUS barbeque!!!!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
I know BayCon has Party Floors, I wonder if they have BBQ Floors?  :D<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Black ICE<BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 11:54 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > > LOL.  Actually in the G:T stuff the K'Kree look kind of sweet but I<BR>
> > > remember really having problems with them in campaigns....<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Well, it all depends on the marinade you use....<BR>
> ><BR>
> That's not exactly what I meant, though...<BR>
><BR>
> > I like to marinate K'Kree in a mix of Worcestershire sauce and beer,<BR>
> > with a couple dashes of Tabasco.  Not "sweet", but tasty.  K'Kree make<BR>
> > good pot roast, too.  (I use a Crock Pot [tm].)<BR>
> ><BR>
> That sounds good.  What easily-available meat would you suggest I use this<BR>
> on, and would Japanese Worcestershire sauce, which doesn't contain corn<BR>
> syrup but rather a fruit juice, work as well?  Or Thai fish sauce?<BR>
> Proportions?<BR>
<BR>
I ball-park it, at about 50-50 Worcestershire sauce and beer, plus the<BR>
previously mentioned Tabasco (ever since I moved to Louisiana, I tend to<BR>
use Tabasco in my cooking a lot!).  Beef is the most readily available<BR>
K'Kree substitute.  I'd like to try cooking with beefalo sometime, but<BR>
the local Winn-Dixie doesn't carry it....<BR>
<BR>
I don't see why there would be a problem with Japanese Worcestershire<BR>
sauce.  After all, the corn syrup in the American-produced version is in<BR>
the soy sauce.  I've never tried Thai fish sauce, so I don't know how<BR>
that would taste.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:57:45 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: little ships<BR>
<BR>
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
...<BR>
>>     Mr Foss does let us down on one point though, his ships are too big and<BR>
>> Traveller is about little ships, so thats the beef I have with the choice of<BR>
>> his art. It doesn't stop it being good art though.<BR>
><BR>
>I take it, then, that you aren't planning to submit a resume' to<BR>
>AuricTech Shipyards in the Far Future.  Traveller is about 500,000 dton<BR>
>dreadnoughts, with HONKIN' BIG particle accelerators and meson guns! <BR>
>Procured with "cost plus" contracts!<BR>
<BR>
  But that isn't terribly large by some comparisons - a 2000' warship<BR>
from Pipers' "Space Viking" is about 7,000,000-Dt, and carries a crew<BR>
of only 500 or so. Sure there are some scaling errors in there, but<BR>
look at the recent "how big is a Battlestar" thread.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:58:32 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Legate Legion<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>more of those.  Rather than killing Legate Legion (i.e. kicking<BR>
>him off the list), I propose we shun him for a period of one month.<BR>
<BR>
>If everyone ignores him for a month that might be sufficient<BR>
>punishment to deter him from such a childish and uncultured<BR>
>act in the future.<BR>
<BR>
  This would at least have the advantage of being nearly effortless<BR>
in addition to being ineffectual; we are after all talking about an<BR>
individual whose response when questioned as to why he hated all sorts<BR>
of seemingly innocent people (e.g., children who play CCG's) amounted<BR>
to "because they deserve it".<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:18:06 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> The final song of the evening was performed by Leslie Fish, Filk Goddess.<BR>
> She performed _Hope Eyrie_, about the first Moon landing.  The song is<BR>
> about how mankind has achieved immortality by leaving his mark on the Moon.<BR>
><BR>
> I can't reprint all the lyrics here,<BR>
<BR>
Actually, you *could* Leslie has no objection to folks posting her<BR>
songs as long as they get them *right* and credit her.<BR>
<BR>
And it's a rather *appropriate* song for Traveller in some ways. So<BR>
I'll post it.<BR>
<BR>
Hope Eyrie (words & music: Leslie Fish)<BR>
<BR>
Worlds grow old and suns grow cold<BR>
And death we never can doubt.<BR>
Time's cold wind, wailing down the past,<BR>
Reminds us that all flesh is grass<BR>
And history's lamps blow out.<BR>
<BR>
Chorus:	But the Eagle has landed;<BR>
	Tell your children when.<BR>
	Time won't drive us down to dust again.<BR>
<BR>
Cycles turn while the far stars burn,<BR>
And people and planets age.<BR>
Life's crown passes to younger lands,<BR>
Time sweeps dust of hope from his hands<BR>
And turns another page.<BR>
<BR>
CHORUS<BR>
<BR>
But we who feel the weight of the wheel<BR>
When winter falls over our world<BR>
Can hope for tomorrow and raise our eyes<BR>
To a silver moon in the opened skies<BR>
And a single flag unfurled.<BR>
<BR>
Chorus:	For the Eagle has landed, ...<BR>
<BR>
We know well what Life can tell:<BR>
If you would not perish, then grow.<BR>
And today our fragile flesh and steel<BR>
Have laid their hands on a vaster wheel<BR>
With all of the stars to know<BR>
<BR>
Chorus:	That the Eagle has landed, ...<BR>
<BR>
From all who tried out of history's tide<BR>
Salute for the team that won.<BR>
And the old Earth smiles at her children's reach;<BR>
The wave that carried us up the beach<BR>
To reach for the shining sun.<BR>
<BR>
Chorus:	For the Eagle has landed, ...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1658<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1659</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1659<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
Re: little ships<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
Re: Sac'to? <BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
[none]<BR>
Old Craft<BR>
RE: Sac'to?<BR>
Spofulam fodder?<BR>
RE: Family<BR>
re: Universal Law Profile<BR>
Re: SJG bashing<BR>
RE: Clothes of the 3I (was: Re: party???<BR>
Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:33:11 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
><BR>
>>Ye Yaskoydrays.  What have we created?<BR>
>>Let me help.  Chris, can you picture the Village People as a <BR>
>>buncha Traveller PCs?  Or maybe as representatives of Known <BR>
>>Space? <BR>
>>In fear and trembling,<BR>
>>Kenji<BR>
><BR>
> Maybe someone with more musical ability than I have could try<BR>
> writing a song after "YMCA" about the Octagon Society (or maybe<BR>
> the Travellers' Aid Society")?<BR>
<BR>
What about a Traveller version of "In the Navy"?<BR>
<BR>
Here's a thought. Make them (the Traveller version of "The Village<BR>
People") Droyne of various castes. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:38:54 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Well, being either kind is technically prosecutable across the bulk of the<BR>
>>USA, so it's hardly surprising.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Kenji<BR>
<BR>
Actually, there are a lot of states where it's not illegal. Oregon is<BR>
one of them. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:40:25 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <<snip>><BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > Y'see Kiri... we're all Family. Humans.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> "It's not my planet, monkey-boy!"<BR>
>> <BR>
>> <oops, there goes the cover.... :-) ><BR>
><BR>
> No problem...<BR>
><BR>
> Hey, everybody!  Look at this nifty ASCII art!<BR>
>  |<BR>
>  V<BR>
><BR>
> (*)  <<red flash>><BR>
>  ^<BR>
> / \<BR>
> | |<BR>
> | |<BR>
> ___<BR>
> | |<BR>
> | |<BR>
> | |<BR>
> | |<BR>
> | |<BR>
> |_|<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
A friend *gave* me one of the ones Burger King was giving away. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:56:10 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:30 PM 1/2/00 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>I wonder whether very-low-power meson beams, aimed with the help of<BR>
>>sensitive densitometers, could be used for some forms of surgery....<BR>
<BR>
>         The Canadian Research Council was funding cancer treatment<BR>
> technology based around meson systems in the mid to late 80's...  I remember<BR>
> seeing the article and waving it in front of my gaming group and saying "the<BR>
> damn particles *DO* exist"...  we'd just presumed anything that behaved that<BR>
> fantastically was "handwavium".<BR>
<BR>
Traveller's "mesons" *are* handwavium. They don't behave like real<BR>
mesons. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:57:55 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> The first time I had a MRI, I realized that I was inside a densinometer.<BR>
> Cool!<BR>
<BR>
Alas, at current TLs densitometers ("mass detectors") can't image the<BR>
human body. It's both too small, and of far too uniform a density.<BR>
<BR>
MRI (Magnetic Resonance Imaging) was former NMR (Nuclear Magnetic<BR>
Resonance) which was a more accurate description. But the "Nuclear" in<BR>
the name scared patients.<BR>
<BR>
The "nuclear" in NMR refers to the nuclei of atoms. The unit generates<BR>
a *hideously* strong magnetic field, which lines up the spin axes of<BR>
atomic nuclei. If you then do something which I can't recall (modulate<BR>
the field at the right frequency?) the nuclei of specific elements<BR>
gives off EM radiation in the microwave(?) band as they flip back to<BR>
"normal" orientation. <BR>
<BR>
So what gets mapped is the relative abundance of whichever element they<BR>
have the MRI unit "tuned" to. Dark areas are low in that isotope,<BR>
bright areas are high in it.<BR>
<BR>
Still neat as all get out, but not a density map in terms of *mass*<BR>
density. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:08:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
>>>It's not my fault!  They forced me to make that last post.  There are<BR>
>>>several penguins in my room all holding tommy guns.  Well, except for the<BR>
>>>larger one smoking a cigar.<BR>
>><BR>
>>    He's called "Dulinor", he's an Emperor Penguin.<BR>
<BR>
Omigod! The Emperor is a *nun*!?!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:03:26 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: little ships<BR>
<BR>
>>>     Mr Foss does let us down on one point though, his ships are too big<BR>
and<BR>
>>> Traveller is about little ships, so thats the beef I have with the<BR>
choice of<BR>
>>> his art. It doesn't stop it being good art though.<BR>
>><BR>
>>I take it, then, that you aren't planning to submit a resume' to<BR>
>>AuricTech Shipyards in the Far Future.  Traveller is about 500,000 dton<BR>
>>dreadnoughts, with HONKIN' BIG particle accelerators and meson guns!<BR>
>>Procured with "cost plus" contracts!<BR>
><BR>
>  But that isn't terribly large by some comparisons - a 2000' warship<BR>
>from Pipers' "Space Viking" is about 7,000,000-Dt, and carries a crew<BR>
>of only 500 or so. Sure there are some scaling errors in there, but<BR>
>look at the recent "how big is a Battlestar" thread.<BR>
<BR>
    Don't worry at those loonies over at Auric Tech, they're still<BR>
"Duchessing" the tenders department people for a crack at that dreadnought<BR>
order.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:58:19 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
Symbolic k/b kill my friend!<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E.<BR>
Berry<BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 4:53 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1626<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
At 12:14 AM 1/3/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>It's not my fault!  They forced me to make that last post.  There are<BR>
>several penguins in my room all holding tommy guns.  Well, except for the<BR>
>larger one smoking a cigar.<BR>
<BR>
You know, when I die, I'm going to get to the Pearly gates, and St. Peter<BR>
will go through my life.  I was kind to cats.  I never stole.  I helped old<BR>
ladies across the streets.<BR>
<BR>
But then he'll fix his gaze on me, and rumble "But we have some concerns<BR>
about this penguin issue..."<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:58:10 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>From: Frank G. Pitt <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
>To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
>Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 7:58 PM<BR>
<BR>
><tongue firmly in cheek>  Wow, does this make GURPS the Microsoft of the<BR>
>gaming industry?  Microsoft made everyone believe it was the originator of<BR>
>the GUI (and with WIN98, of the Internet browser?)... GURPS making people<BR>
>believe it was the originator of the multi-g game system??<BR>
><BR>
>Time to duck me thinks!<BR>
<BR>
This thread is a bit misplaced since I think GURPS never claimed<BR>
that distinction.  Hero is the one, AFAIK, that can claim it<BR>
(disregarding systems that use the same basic mechanics for<BR>
different genres but were not set up to make it easy for a GM<BR>
to port to different settings).<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:09:03 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > That sounds good.  What easily-available meat would you suggest I use<BR>
this<BR>
> > on, and would Japanese Worcestershire sauce, which doesn't contain corn<BR>
> > syrup but rather a fruit juice, work as well?  Or Thai fish sauce?<BR>
> > Proportions?<BR>
><BR>
> I ball-park it, at about 50-50 Worcestershire sauce and beer, plus the<BR>
> previously mentioned Tabasco (ever since I moved to Louisiana, I tend to<BR>
> use Tabasco in my cooking a lot!).  Beef is the most readily available<BR>
> K'Kree substitute.  I'd like to try cooking with beefalo sometime, but<BR>
> the local Winn-Dixie doesn't carry it....<BR>
<BR>
Have you asked them if they could get it?  Talk to the head<BR>
meat-cutter, s/he might surprise you.  If you were in<BR>
Lousianna, I would recommend 'gator tail (hey if you can get<BR>
it in Tulsa, Oklahoma, you should be able to get it in LA).<BR>
<BR>
> I don't see why there would be a problem with Japanese Worcestershire<BR>
> sauce.  After all, the corn syrup in the American-produced version is in<BR>
> the soy sauce.  I've never tried Thai fish sauce, so I don't know how<BR>
> that would taste.<BR>
<BR>
I wouldn't recommend the fish sauce.  Not because I know<BR>
how it is made (which I do), but because fish sauce just<BR>
doesn't go very well with K'kree (or reasonable substitutes).<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:16:07 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Sac'to? <BR>
<BR>
If I may bring this thread back to the original thrust I intended,<BR>
is there anyone else on this list in the Sacramento area of<BR>
California.  If so, would any of you be interested in getting<BR>
together?  Or is there anyone who has a going gaming<BR>
group with room for one more?<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:16:20 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> At 06:01 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> >You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
>> >you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
>> >Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
>> <BR>
>> OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
>> <BR>
> Me me me ME!!!  Can I do it?  PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE?  I've been good!<BR>
<BR>
Oh all right, Kiri. But please remember to mop up the hydrotherapy<BR>
suite after the two of you are done with it. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:16:14 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>The bad thing that really didn't get fixed till T4 (actually TNE also<BR>
>fixed it, but TNE is another story) was the discrepancy between enhanced<BR>
>character generation and basic. If you allowed enhanced generation you<BR>
>got/get characters with a whole bunch more skills and a more interesting<BR>
>background, but which took longer to generate, so players get pushed<BR>
>into the 4 main careers and all the issues of it taking so long to<BR>
>generate characters got exacerbated. Also because the number of<BR>
>available skills didn't go up quite in line with the number of skills<BR>
>the enhanced characters were likely to get, the skill mixes ended up<BR>
>being alot more similar between the careers (I seem to remember Frank<BR>
>Chadwick pointing this out on one of the Genie debates).<BR>
<BR>
Lessee, here, Max skills per term, exclusive of schools, under advanced Gen<BR>
was 8. Typical is 2-5, IME. I've had far to many Advanced CGen Characters<BR>
who were outcalssed by basic characters.<BR>
<BR>
Basic MT Cgen, typical skills (remembering promo, position, and Spl Duty<BR>
all get an additional extra if you make the roll by 4+ points)<BR>
Carreers with Ranks<BR>
First Term: 2+0-6 = 2-8, typically 3-4<BR>
Second and later: 1+0-6 = 1-7, typically 2-4<BR>
<BR>
Careers without ranks<BR>
All terms, assuming you use the errata that all careers without ranks get 2<BR>
per term base: 2+0-2, typically 3-4. (most of these have pretty low SplDty<BR>
targets, and are roll high.)<BR>
<BR>
I don't now, nor have I ever, uderstood the "imballance" between Carreer<BR>
methods under MT. Under CT, it was blatant. Under MT, it is minor. Yeah,<BR>
someone who makes all the right rolls can get 8-12 skills per term. (Ok, if<BR>
you get that 1:18^4 of all assignments being school, you could hit<BR>
6+6+1+1=14 (1st two times you get the skills, third and later, you're an<BR>
instructor, and merely get one level of instruction). In any case, under<BR>
CT, most of my characters had a bunch of Level-0 skills after the Int+Edu<BR>
limit trimmed them. Under MT, almost all 4 term plus characters start to<BR>
look towards the limit except the total brainiaks.<BR>
<BR>
AFAIK T4 didn't address advanced CGen, unless IG slipped something in<BR>
somewhere outside the 7 T4 books I got (not counting the doubling up on<BR>
base books).  T4's system was a slightly expanded variant off CT/MT, with<BR>
more tables, plus bacground skills. T4 simply had a base of 4 skills per<BR>
term, plus 1 per promotion (enlisted or officer), plus one for<BR>
commission/position, plus one for special duty, making the range 4-7,<BR>
typically 4-6, since you only get commissioned once. This effectively<BR>
devalues all the skill levels in T4... by about 25 %. Makes converting a<BR>
pain; they look *soooo* close, but there is math correction needed...<BR>
expecially without and Int+Edu limit.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:26:26 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Old Craft<BR>
<BR>
>Damn it !<BR>
>I _worked_ on prop-driven airliners when I was in the RNZAF !<BR>
>Will you lot stop with this making me feel old, already ?<BR>
><BR>
Relax, Frankie, there are *STILL* Turboprops flying passengers and cargo.<BR>
<BR>
Locally, I see C-130's (Turbine driven prop x4) flown by the US Air Force<BR>
and Coast Guard DAILY, and DhC2 Beavers and DHC  Otters and Twin Otters<BR>
used for CIVIL/COMMERCIAL AVIATION, with their radials... Wierdest thing<BR>
flying on earth, IMHO, is a Twin Otter on Floats. As if it weren't ugly<BR>
enough already.<BR>
<BR>
Then again, there is a guy who flys out near here in a restored F4U<BR>
Corsair. He's got the logbooks for it, and they go back to WWII.<BR>
<BR>
This brings me to another thought; a buddy of mine serves on what is<BR>
purpotedly the oldest military hull in regular US service, CGC Storres.<BR>
Built in 1946, IIRC (I know it was the 1940's, post WWII), with an aluminum<BR>
hull. Apparently, some schmoe was carrying a breaker bar (4-8 feet of metal<BR>
bar), slipped, and punched through the hull of one of the Storres sister<BR>
ships with said breaker bar.<BR>
<BR>
Now admitedly, oceanic service will carry away more metal than vaccum<BR>
service, but just how much loss ARE we going to see on some 50-100 YO Type<BR>
R or Type A. Or Worse, on a Type S. And simple metal fatigue resulting in<BR>
increased brittleness?<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 23:33:54 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Sac'to?<BR>
<BR>
~1.7<BR>
<BR>
Good job Dom!<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of SD Mooney<BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 3:36 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Sac'to?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
At 16:59 -0500 3/1/00, Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
> >All the BITS adventures are designed for 6 characters...<BR>
>That just confirms my suspicions that BITS is a Droyne plot.<BR>
<BR>
I'll just be a Sport and pop into the pocket universe and check if <BR>
you're allowed to know that....<BR>
<BR>
<Activate the Warriors from stasis. Intervention required on long <BR>
term control study group specimen  on Terra. This one looks like it <BR>
has become self-aware - we need to vivisect it>.<BR>
<BR>
YaskroDom<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 23:43:34 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Spofulam fodder?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
>Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
...<BR>
>Err....ANRAtech's legalattackweasel department has advised me not to<BR>
>comment, although I would like to repeat that the investigation after the<BR>
>RP12 incident was unable to prove anything.<BR>
<BR>
  "legalattackweasel"? LAW? Ooh, I can see this:<BR>
<BR>
  "You wanted _anti-tank rockets_? Drat! Well, howzabout we give you a<BR>
discount on the sample batch, seeing's as we're already decanting them"?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 23:49:08 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Family<BR>
<BR>
Work for Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, do you Leonard?<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Leonard<BR>
Erickson<BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 6:04 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Kiri wrote (to Doug?)<BR>
><BR>
>>> As a member of the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community,<BR>
>>><BR>
>> I'd no idea that you were Family.  =)<BR>
>><BR>
> I had no idea (and didn't care at all) either. <BR>
> But it changes nothing. <BR>
><BR>
> Y'see Kiri... we're all Family. Humans.<BR>
<BR>
"It's not my planet, monkey-boy!"<BR>
<BR>
<oops, there goes the cover.... :-) ><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:58:19 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Universal Law Profile<BR>
<BR>
At 18:36 -0500 3/1/00, Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
>I'll think about this a little.  I agree that it looks like a<BR>
>good first stab by a non-lawyer.  I have the softbound T4, not<BR>
>hardbound, but I'll look to see if it's in there.<BR>
<BR>
If that's Bloo's post sent via me *he is a lawyer*. And the extra law <BR>
material in in M0 Campaign's Hardcover p141. The HIWG site had it on <BR>
as well a while ago, pre transition to Downport in their archives.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 23:59:46 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Considering that we're thinking about getting the job done by "Redneck<BR>
> Earl's Texas BBQ"...<BR>
<BR>
 Bad News on that front they went out of Bizness the 12 of last month....<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We have<BR>
to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door. Knowledge<BR>
isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 23:54:09 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Clothes of the 3I (was: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
Eh?  Can you scan & post, as I don't have that TD?<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Josh W.<BR>
Spencer<BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 6:48 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Clothes of the 3I (was: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 01/03/2000 21:40, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> I don't think this _has_ been really addressed much.  It came up in<BR>
> passing back when the predecessor of TravLang was getting started; there<BR>
> seemed to be a few people who had some knowledge & interest in style --<BR>
> yes, you can imagine my shock and horror! -- so it could well take off.<BR>
> I'd actually be very interested in hearing ideas about any of this stuff,<BR>
> since it's outa my league.<BR>
><BR>
> Kenji<BR>
><BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> [snip]<BR>
>><BR>
>> (Are there any artists or costumers on this list who would be interested<BR>
>> in discussing Vilani, Zhodani, or Far Future Solomani art and clothing<BR>
and<BR>
>> homecrafts styles with me, either here or on Trav-Culture?  I am one of<BR>
>> the few people I know that actually cares about stuff like that.  My main<BR>
>> specific interest right now is what characters wear and how they do their<BR>
>> hair, etc...  mostly because I just realized that if I wanted to dress up<BR>
>> as a Traveller character I would probably just wear work clothes and if<BR>
>> that wasn't appropriate for the character I would be stumped-- except<BR>
that<BR>
>> if I were Zhodani I would wear a big turban, but maybe not cause I'm a<BR>
>> girl-type.)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
One of my Travellers' Digest issues deals with Vilani influence on clothing.<BR>
Whoever did the pics made them look, well, Vilani! I'm surprised no one's<BR>
actually tried to make any costumes.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:57:57 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
>Turning this back to the original post - is threatening to kill<BR>
>people an offense in the US?<BR>
><BR>
>Dom<BR>
<BR>
varies by jurisdiction to some degree. And which DA gets the case, State or<BR>
Fed. IIRC, terrorist threats are federal (Bloo, correct me if I'm wrong<BR>
here). But, not all jurisdictions consider verbal threats to even be a<BR>
misdemeanor assault.<BR>
<BR>
In anchorage, AK, USA, you can walk up to someone and calmly say "I ought<BR>
to kill you", and get no punishment at all. On the other hand, saying the<BR>
same thing in a viscious tone, with a raised fist, or in an altered state<BR>
is misdemeanor assault. Say it with a weapon, and it's a felony. Call in a<BR>
bomb threat, and you get a felony charge, even if you planted a ladyfinger<BR>
connected to a model rocket igniter in a light fixture, or didn't plant a<BR>
bomb at all... assuming they catch you.<BR>
<BR>
What LL said, might be enough (I'm no lawyer, I just have worked for one,<BR>
and closely follow local legal issues) up here to consitute assault, as a<BR>
misdemeanor. But, the problem would be convincing a grand jury to indict.<BR>
And then a Trial jury to convict. (having gone through the domestic<BR>
violence process as victim last year, I found out that ALL criminal cases,<BR>
even misdemeanors, go through a grand jury locally, unless a plea is<BR>
reached. And just getting there can take 2 months.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, He claims Legate Legion is his real name. I know a rather unreliable<BR>
source who claims to have met him in Phoenix, at the synagogue, and<BR>
confirms that.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav, canon has only stated a few imperial crimes: Treason, Murder,<BR>
Hijack, Psionics. Everything else varies by world... or does it?<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 00:03:23 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 06:01 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
> >you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
> >Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
><BR>
> OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
<BR>
I got the Dart gun.... You wuz 'spoused to bring the darts.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1659<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1660</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1660<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: Fashion and Art in the 3I<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re FF&S<BR>
Re: Re Multi-Genre games...<BR>
Re LKW<BR>
Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message<BR>
Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
Re: SJG bashing<BR>
RE: Happy New Year!<BR>
RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
RE: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Laws of physics<BR>
Re: Laws of physics<BR>
Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
Re Costumes<BR>
Re: Laws of physics<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Old Craft<BR>
Roleplaying and recent dramas<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 00:04:01 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > At 06:01 PM 1/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
> > >you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
> > >Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
> ><BR>
> Me me me ME!!!  Can I do it?  PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE?  I've been good!<BR>
<BR>
By all means.... Ladies first.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We have<BR>
to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door. Knowledge<BR>
isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 03:13:53 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fashion and Art in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
> My main specific interest right now is what characters wear and how<BR>
> they do their hair, etc...  mostly because I just realized that if I<BR>
wanted to dress up as a Traveller character I would probably just wear work<BR>
> clothes and if that wasn't appropriate for the character I would be<BR>
> stumped-- except that if I were Zhodani I would wear a big turban,<BR>
> but maybe not cause I'm a girl-type.)<BR>
<BR>
The trouble with being Vilani or Solomani is that it would be difficult to<BR>
convey a specific "Traveller" feel, I guess.  (Darian = elves in space!<BR>
Eek!) For Zhodani, an alternative to the noble's turban is a headband for<BR>
the intendant class -- one of the illos in Alien Races one adds a<BR>
diamond-like design on the front of the headband. The noble dress is<BR>
probably the most distinctive, though:  the cloak+turban gives it an extra<BR>
something  You could be a consulate officer and use the "three circles"<BR>
Zhodani insignia (equivalent to the Imperial starburst) as a badge, patch<BR>
or ornament somewhere.  Traditionally, some of the noble cloaks are<BR>
supposed to be "ablative fabric" (perhaps black or white) so some kind of<BR>
rubbery synthetic rather than cloth might differentiate you nicely from<BR>
medieval cloaked costumers. Some other zhodani art in AR1 shows a flared<BR>
double tails from tunic or dress and a sort of wide scooped ridged collar,<BR>
but I may be imprecise in description here; if you've seen AR1 already,<BR>
then that's no news.  Another way to "be Zhodani" might be to have a robot<BR>
pet (tamagotchi!?) or R2 unit equivalant -- in a costume presentation,<BR>
having one person be the Zho and the other the trusty<BR>
warbot/techbot/secretarybot.... Oh, something else to be a distinctive zho:<BR>
enrol yourself in the Consular Legion of Merit and give yourself its<BR>
representative gold sash.<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Fashion and Art in the 3I.<BR>
><BR>
>Concerning specific fashions and styles, it's really up to you. Someone did<BR>
>do an Imperial KiSS[1] quite some time ago. I've lost it, and I've never<BR>
>seen it on any KiSS doll pages. I think it contained mostly adventuring type<BR>
>outfits.<BR>
<BR>
The only Imperial KiSS doll is a set of male and female Impeiral uniforms<BR>
from Star Wars.<BR>
 If you ever track down a Trav one, let me know...<BR>
<BR>
>technology in the fashions I imagine and describe. Clothing made from edible<BR>
>and fungi<BR>
<BR>
funky!<BR>
<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 00:17:23 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1623<BR>
<BR>
David P. Summers wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> (What do humans taste like?  Rumour is they taste like pork).<BR>
<BR>
Spam.... Or at least that is what I've been told.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We have<BR>
to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door. Knowledge<BR>
isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 00:20:45 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Unless he was talking about bottles.<BR>
><BR>
> <shudder> Please speak not of The Evil Liquid so casually...<BR>
><BR>
> I (I'm told) drank one bottle to myself on an occasion this summer. It was<BR>
> an experience I'm not that keen to repeat.<BR>
<BR>
Was it the hallucinations or the jog around the block in your underwear?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:07:31 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re FF&S<BR>
<BR>
ISTR that there are 3 different versions of FF&S<BR>
<BR>
FF&S, Mk1 Md0<BR>
FF&S Mk1 Md1<BR>
	these two have blue and yellow covers<BR>
FF&S2.<BR>
	This one is the black cover, with all the screw-ups in layout.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:21:34 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Multi-Genre games...<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:18:10 +1000<BR>
>From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
>Subject: Re: Re Multi-Genre games...<BR>
><BR>
>I look upon this stuff as "game history" and do not always have the time I<BR>
>used to , to track it down... do you have a time-line for any other multi-G<BR>
>games?  What time did GURPS come into the world?<BR>
><BR>
>- -- The Roc<BR>
Lessee.. I was dating Thresa, so that would be my Junior Year, so that<BR>
means about the 85-86 school year. I don't have my 1st ed handy (tis<BR>
buried, and missing a book), even though I know right where it is. I never<BR>
purchased MTM, but was introduced to it by Peter Newman. Funny, he also<BR>
introduced me to T&T, Champions/Hero System, and DragonQuest. More<BR>
recently, to Dream Pod 9's multiple Shillouette games.<BR>
<BR>
TFT was still in print to 1983, as that's the year on my most recent<BR>
Fantasy Master's Codex.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:32:05 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re LKW<BR>
<BR>
LKW = Last Keyboard Working<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 00:35:04 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 1/1/00 12:22 AM, semo@pil.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In my estimation there's something wrong with<BR>
> a place where a World War can last for five or six years, and a World Party<BR>
> only lasts for a day.<BR>
<BR>
Amen, but I'd settle with no more war. A seven year party would tucker me<BR>
out.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 00:47:20 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >>You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
> >>you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
> >>Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
> ><BR>
> >OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
><BR>
> You mean someone's gotta get close enough to ManicKenji(TM) to force a<BR>
> needle in him? Or worse, make him swallow momma's little yellow helper???<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
Are you crazed man?  The only sane methodology would<BR>
include the use of a dart gun or some sweet young thing to<BR>
sooth him while someone sneaks up to inject him from<BR>
behind.  :-o<BR>
<BR>
<yes the pun was intended, no I couldn't resist><BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 02:57:26 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
"David J. Golden" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>         Hear Hear! Unlike a small minority, *I'm* not threatened (and never<BR>
> have been) by discussions that stray from my favorite version of the<BR>
> rules/setting/interpretation. I *like* cross-pollinization. Even<BR>
> ship/vehicle designs I can't use directly are still interesting ...<BR>
> or I can just Ctrl-D...<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure that anyone feels threatened by differing "favorite system"<BR>
posts, but maybe.  For me personally, it's just not logistically<BR>
practical to carry on more focused discussions in this forum.  There are<BR>
so many OT posts (which is totally cool...I fully understand that is the<BR>
nature of TML), and I happen to get all my "fun/friend" OT traffic<BR>
elsewhere that this list wasn't practical for detailed dense discussions<BR>
about GURPS Traveller for me. I'm not sure ANYONE else is in a similar<BR>
situation, but if the idea of a moderated (to keep out OT and flame<BR>
posts), and hopefully more focused GURPS Traveller list with low volume<BR>
but high quality traffic sounds interesting:<BR>
<BR>
send a blank message to xboat-subscribe@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Can't we all just get along? Balkanization is *never* a good idea ...<BR>
<BR>
Don't think of it as balkanization...think of it as committee work.  How<BR>
would Congress function if EVERY discussion, negotiation, bill proposal,<BR>
bill writing activity etc, was done in one big chamber with both the<BR>
house and the senate mingled together...with their staff people so<BR>
normal office fun like birthdays and practical jokes were thrown in the<BR>
mix also!<BR>
<BR>
I think maybe watching CSPAN would be somewhat confusing, IF you were<BR>
trying to figure out what laws were being passed and who was voting on<BR>
what, but maybe that is just me. <BR>
<BR>
I'm sure in that situation watching CSPAN would actually have a<BR>
TREMENDOUS enjoyment value in and of itself...but not for the people<BR>
simply interested in law making and it probably wouldn't be that<BR>
productive of an atmosphere for the law makers themselves, but then<BR>
again...who knows?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks much,<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
- ---<BR>
NEW MODERATED GURPS TRAVELLER LIST!<BR>
For a moderated, high density, low volume, GURPS Traveller discussion,<BR>
send a blank message to xboat-subscribe@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 08:50:37 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
>Bit wimpy though, three tequilas ? Unless he was talking about<BR>
>bottles.<BR>
<BR>
Been there and done the bottle thing....best I managed was 2 and a bit....<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
<BR>
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 00:52:52 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I like to marinate K'Kree in a mix of Worcestershire sauce and beer,<BR>
> with a couple dashes of Tabasco.  Not "sweet", but tasty.  K'Kree make<BR>
> good pot roast, too.  (I use a Crock Pot [tm].)<BR>
<BR>
I am real fond of blackened Rump steak...<BR>
<BR>
And then there is the perennial Favorite Fried brains and Eggs with<BR>
plenty of tabasco.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 01:00:33 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > Considering that we're thinking about getting the job done by "Redneck<BR>
> > Earl's Texas BBQ"...<BR>
><BR>
>  Bad News on that front they went out of Bizness the 12 of last month....<BR>
<BR>
Make that the 14th....<BR>
<BR>
Yes I know I'm talking to myself in email..... Docter says it is just a phase.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We have to<BR>
make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door. Knowledge isn't<BR>
always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 22:13:43 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
> >Unless he was talking about bottles.<BR>
><BR>
> <shudder> Please speak not of The Evil Liquid so casually...<BR>
><BR>
> I (I'm told) drank one bottle to myself on an occasion this summer. It was<BR>
> an experience I'm not that keen to repeat.<BR>
<BR>
Aw, come on, only one ?<BR>
<BR>
Mind you, I do come from the New Zealand Armed Forces, where drinking is<BR>
subsidized to the extent that people order jugs of rum & coke rather than<BR>
doubles, so my experience may be a bit warped.<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
( BTW I don't think I've ever had real Tequila, just that Two Worms stuff.)<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 22:24:40 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
> >It seems a shame that no credit card orders are accepted, as I'm<BR>
> sure this<BR>
> >will reduce sales and impulse buying somewhat due to the reduced<BR>
> >conveniance, especially from non-US.  I assume a secure credit<BR>
> card system<BR>
> >is too difficult or inconveniant for Marc to set up.<BR>
><BR>
>         Hi, David...<BR>
><BR>
>         Its more the issue that the Secure Site Certificate costs ~$400US<BR>
> PER YEAR...  then you need the back-end software and a bail of other<BR>
> stuff....  Places like _Digital River_ charge a USD600 set up fee and then<BR>
> take 10% - 20% per order they handle....  you've gotta be damn sure you're<BR>
> gonna make some good coin (USD1000+) to make it worth it....<BR>
<BR>
So don't bother with Secure Site Certificates.<BR>
They're not neccessary, just use a normal form.<BR>
<BR>
No-one bothers stealing credit card numbers on the net (and if they do their<BR>
so stupid they're unlikely to be bale to sue it correctly, there are<BR>
programs out there generate valid credit card numbers for you.<BR>
<BR>
The Secure Site gimmick is just for idiots who don't know how credit cards<BR>
or the internet work.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:29:55 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
>>>Unless he was talking about bottles.<BR>
>><BR>
>><shudder> Please speak not of The Evil Liquid so casually...<BR>
>><BR>
>>I (I'm told) drank one bottle to myself on an occasion this summer. >>It <BR>
>>was an experience I'm not that keen to repeat.<BR>
<BR>
I have to admit, it tastes better going down than coming up....so to speak  <BR>
*grin*<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
<BR>
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:49:45 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Laws of physics<BR>
<BR>
>>However, I was once disallowed as a Call of Cthulhu character due to my<BR>
demonstratable skills in the categories of Occult and Mythos knowledge.<BR>
Everyone else was allowed to play themselves- but not me.  :P<BR>
>><BR>
>Why were you disallowed? I've never played the game. However, from what<BR>
I've heard about it, high Occult and Mythos scores just give your character<BR>
a much shorter life expectancy.<BR>
><BR>
They lower your sanity, which can lower your life expectancy.  (I've read a<BR>
lot of Mythos stuff and could at that time do most trivia quizzes on it-- on<BR>
the other hand, no one has ever accused me of being sane.)  When you go<BR>
completely insane you usually become a crazed cultist NPC.<BR>
<BR>
However, high occult and Mythos scores mean that you know what to do when<BR>
certain signs appear.  That means you don't get surprised by the oogly<BR>
googlies very often.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:44:42 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Laws of physics<BR>
<BR>
>However, high occult and Mythos scores mean that you know what to do when<BR>
>certain signs appear.  That means you don't get surprised by the oogly<BR>
>googlies very often.<BR>
>Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
    I used to run if someone left the lid of the toothpaste. Why take the<BR>
chance? It could be a Mythos manifestation!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 00:42:25 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
<BR>
>> As for CCGs, I do not believe my nephew has ever been involved in a<BR>
>knifing<BR>
>> or that he would be over mere cards.   I tend to believe most involved w/<BR>
>> them are not that insane.<BR>
<BR>
CCG's are such a problem in local schools, they have been banned from<BR>
elementary and middle schools locally. Or more specifically, MTG and<BR>
Pokemon have. STTNG hasn't specifically been banned. Which is why I had to<BR>
prevent a near fist-fight in a 5-6th grade class I was subbing in over a<BR>
sheet of cards (vinyl pocketed sheet holding 12 cards).<BR>
<BR>
Pokemon toys have similar effects. They are SO in demand that they are<BR>
causing fights and thefts in the elementary schools.<BR>
True, this is not the intended place of play, but it is a result of their<BR>
marketing and player bases.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 00:47:36 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Costumes<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:02:22 -0800<BR>
>From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
>Subject: RE: party???<BR>
><BR>
>Scouts are easy too!  Flight suit with vest ;)  This is probably what I'll<BR>
>be in (or a variation of such) when I'm not in Combat Armor [assuming I get<BR>
>it done].<BR>
<BR>
Scouts can be done quite easily... get one of the Civil Air Patrol blue<BR>
flight-suits, then dye to blue-grey. add a ventilated fishbowl, and some<BR>
vinyl gloves... and the IISS Rider-on-a-poni logo...<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:12:39 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Laws of physics<BR>
<BR>
>>However, high occult and Mythos scores mean that you know what to >>do <BR>
>>when certain signs appear.  That means you don't get surprised >>by the <BR>
>>oogly googlies very often.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>I used to run if someone left the lid of the toothpaste. Why take the<BR>
>chance? It could be a Mythos manifestation!<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
iSteve inserts his joke here:<BR>
<BR>
Q: How many Call of Cthulhu players does it take to change a light bulb?<BR>
<BR>
A: All of them, because you never, EVER split the party!<BR>
<BR>
OK, re-engaging cloaking device now....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
<BR>
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 05:31:08 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:38:54 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Subject: Re: Family<BR>
><BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>>>Well, being either kind is technically prosecutable across the bulk of<BR>
the<BR>
>>>USA, so it's hardly surprising.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>Kenji<BR>
><BR>
>Actually, there are a lot of states where it's not illegal. Oregon is<BR>
>one of them.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
To the best of my knowledge there are only two US states that have<BR>
sodomy laws; Georgia and Michigan. The Military has lots of draconian<BR>
rules regarding sexuality. Note that in each of these cases heterosexual<BR>
as well as homosexual acts are illegal but the laws are usually only<BR>
enforced against the GLBT community.<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
Veni, Vidi, Vaca.<BR>
I came, I saw, I had a cow<BR>
  - Bart Caeser<BR>
++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 05:29:36 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Old Craft<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:26:26 -0900<BR>
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
>Subject: Old Craft<BR>
><BR>
>>Damn it !<BR>
>>I _worked_ on prop-driven airliners when I was in the RNZAF !<BR>
>>Will you lot stop with this making me feel old, already ?<BR>
>><BR>
>Relax, Frankie, there are *STILL* Turboprops flying passengers and cargo.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
For short distance and few passenger flights props are still the way<BR>
to go. I know airbus was producing a prop (maybe turboprop) in the<BR>
previous decade(they may still be.) And a couple of years ago I flew on<BR>
a small Dornier prop plane (20-24 passenger capacity IIRC) That couldn't<BR>
have been more than 20 or so years old. In short propeller driven<BR>
aircraft still fill an economically usefull niche.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>R or Type A. Or Worse, on a Type S. And simple metal fatigue resulting in<BR>
>increased brittleness?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Personally I am getting rather bored with metal hulls.... From now on I'm<BR>
using High Impact Plastics for Ships of the Line. <grin><BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
Veni, Vidi, Vaca.<BR>
I came, I saw, I had a cow<BR>
  - Bart Caeser<BR>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
<BR>
PS I'd like to appologize for my annoying tendency to use less than usefull<BR>
subject lines in some of my recent posts. I'm suffering from a bout of<BR>
insomnia and niceties like replacing the Re trav digest etc,etc with the<BR>
proper<BR>
descriptor in the subject line sometimes falls by the wayside<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 02:57:23 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Roleplaying and recent dramas<BR>
<BR>
Two things I'm responding to:<BR>
<BR>
Who cares if they play the same character several<BR>
times? practice makes perfect, and all that. If you as<BR>
a player can't stand it, change campaigns. If you're<BR>
the GM, harden up, there are worse kinds of players<BR>
than this! The purpose of the game is to have fun, is<BR>
all. As a GM, I say if the PCs bore me, _I've_ been<BR>
doing something wrong - not challenging them to come<BR>
up with new ideas. <BR>
<BR>
Myself, I like Evil Stevie. Puts out HEAPS of stuff,<BR>
not one of those games where you wait for years for<BR>
supplements to come out. And the system is a bit<BR>
funny, but elegant in that it's just as good for so<BR>
many different worlds. <BR>
As for SJG vs. Anybody Else, If You Don't Like It,<BR>
Don't Buy It, Don't Play It. Complex solution, I know,<BR>
but...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1660<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1661</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1661<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
The TML and I [OT]<BR>
Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
Re: Traveller<BR>
Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
HEAPS of posts! T5? why?<BR>
Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
Moderation? Censorship?<BR>
Re: Legate Legion<BR>
Re: Other lists<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
re:  Humanitarianism<BR>
Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: New Group!<BR>
Re: Keyboard kills & misc <BR>
Re: Traveller Versions - What I Liked and Did Not Like<BR>
RE: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: Santanocheev the Man<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 03:01:31 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
<BR>
I'll add about Stevie - I've never met him, but he<BR>
gets the credit for getting em into roleplaying. I'd<BR>
heard of D&D, but not thought much of what I'd heard,<BR>
then got into his solo adventure books, and decided,<BR>
"this is great! and I want more." Him plus Robert E<BR>
Howard get the credit (or blame, if you know me,<BR>
hehehe) for me playing and GMing for fourteen years<BR>
now. <BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:50:59 +0000<BR>
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: The TML and I [OT]<BR>
<BR>
I've been lurking here for years now. I have trouble keeping up with the<BR>
volume of posts and don't even try to join in the discussions. Since I<BR>
give so little back to the list I don't feel I should have much say in<BR>
how it runs, but maybe feedback would be a contribution of sorts.<BR>
<BR>
What do I like about the TML? The family feeling, the light-hearted<BR>
banter, the creativity. I love it that Doug wants to share his triumph<BR>
with us; I enjoy watching the debate over whether we're in the naughties<BR>
or the oaties; I hoard the ideas on law, fashion, turbolifts. And that's<BR>
just since the new year!<BR>
<BR>
What DON'T I like? The volume, the endlessly repeated debates and, above<BR>
all, the flaming. It's been a long time since I've skipped whole digests<BR>
unread but I am going to have to do so now, which means I will be<BR>
missing out on the good stuff sandwiched between the vitriol and<BR>
righteous indignation. I resent that.<BR>
<BR>
I am white, gentile, thirtysomething, heterosexual, middle-class,<BR>
(mostly) able-bodied, English and male. Sometimes it's hard to be proud<BR>
of that - "which oppressor role do I want to be identified with today?".<BR>
I know that it has, on balance, made my life easier; I know I was raised<BR>
racist, sexist and various other-ist. I try to step beyond that, to<BR>
treat every person as an individual rather than a member of a group. I<BR>
often succeed and when I don't I apologise (if I realise it).<BR>
<BR>
Maybe that's why I found Legate Legion's attack and follow-ups so<BR>
chilling. More likely it's because I'm a GURPS GM and small-time writer<BR>
for SJG, finding myself for once in a group targeted for destruction. I<BR>
cannot be objective about this. I would support a call to suspend LL<BR>
from the list, with his return dependent upon an actual apology.<BR>
<BR>
Again, my apologies for the off-topic post. I wish you all (*including*<BR>
LL) a very happy and peaceful 2000.<BR>
<BR>
John<BR>
 <BR>
John G. Wood            <john@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
Oxford, United Kingdom  http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 03:09:53 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: On playing the same character over and over and over ...<BR>
<BR>
Joseph wrote:<BR>
> Of course, there is a possibility that I'm missing<BR>
> some sublime level of<BR>
> orgasmic roleplaying pleasure because my players<BR>
> aren't "good roleplayers."<BR>
> But for some reason, I don't think so.<BR>
<BR>
I'm with you there, Joseph, same stuff I'm missing.<BR>
Ah, the traumas of missing out on The Method Acting<BR>
School of Roleplaying. On the continuum between Method<BR>
Acting and the Dungeon Crawl, there is The Happy Medium.:)<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 12:40:32 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller<BR>
<BR>
"Swordy (Colin Michael)" wrote:<BR>
> Funny, I don't use *any* of those things [major races, "normal"<BR>
> jump drives, etc] IMTU.  Does that make me a bad person?<BR>
<BR>
Not bad. Heretical, yes, but not bad.<BR>
<BR>
I am actually planning a campaign using only the normal technology, and<BR>
not any of the races and maps provided. And yes, I am planning it in 3D.<BR>
<BR>
I would say that Traveller is the "feel" of the game. Star Wars is not<BR>
Traveller (too much heroic stuff, too much contact between lots of<BR>
races). Star Trek is not Traveller (way too advanced technology, a new<BR>
lifeform every episode).<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, 2001 could be Traveller (it certainly would explain<BR>
why ships are not automated when they could be). The Foundation could be<BR>
Traveller (it has cramped ships, quite long transit times, etc).<BR>
<BR>
Adventure idea: How about having the PCs riding an automated passenger<BR>
liner? One of the larger corporations invented it, and this is the first<BR>
trip. Then, possibly in jump, things start to go terribly wrong on<BR>
board...<BR>
<BR>
"Computer, reinstate lifesupport in the cargo bay quickly."<BR>
<BR>
"Those lifeforms are not supposed to enter the cargohold during jump."<BR>
<BR>
"But they are dying. Give them air NOW!"<BR>
<BR>
"I am sorry Dave. I cannot do that."<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:40:52 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
<BR>
>Well a traveller /// TML Game in Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK.<BR>
><BR>
>March 11th and 12th<BR>
><BR>
>These are the provisional dates and I will co-ordinate this<BR>
>convention//games day<BR>
><BR>
>And I will run a game using a yet to be determined rule set..........<BR>
><BR>
First off, thanks from (I'm sure) everyone for agreeing to do the hard work.<BR>
<BR>
K, secondly if any driver is passing through/near Doncaster I'd appreciate a <BR>
list and obviously reimburse petrol.<BR>
<BR>
Thirdly will there be a floor available to doss down on on the 11th?  Or <BR>
will we just play 'til we drop?   :o)<BR>
<BR>
Fourthly, and finally, pencil me in to run a couple of Classic Traveller <BR>
games.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
<BR>
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 03:57:15 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: HEAPS of posts! T5? why?<BR>
<BR>
> everyone here would agree that they were<BR>
> totally uncalled <BR>
> for and far beyond what could ever remotely be<BR>
> regarded as <BR>
> acceptable. I for one am deeply embarrassed that<BR>
> they appeared <BR>
> here.<BR>
Don't know, didn't read them. They sound dopey<BR>
second-hand, though! i left the list three days and<BR>
had 645 posts... naturally I had to delete most<BR>
without reading them, I decided that "SJG vs T5" I<BR>
could do without, especially since T5 hasn't even been<BR>
published yet. <BR>
<BR>
Speaking of this, I'm not sure I understand the<BR>
reasoning... Loren, isn't Marc undercutting himself<BR>
with two editions running around (ie GT and T5)? I<BR>
giess there can be room for two, after all, Basic and<BR>
Advanced D&D co-existed for many years... <BR>
<BR>
But basically, I don't understand all the different<BR>
editions... why so many? What about, "if it ain't<BR>
broke, don't fix it?" or, "if it was broke, why did it<BR>
get out in the first place?" Or are you and Marc just<BR>
like me as a GM, can't stop yourself tinkering, even<BR>
when what you've got goes fine?;) <BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:58:17 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
<BR>
>K, secondly if any driver is passing through/near Doncaster I'd appreciate <BR>
>a list<BR>
<BR>
I do, of course, mean lift....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
<BR>
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 04:01:58 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Moderation? Censorship?<BR>
<BR>
> > Join a MODERATED GURPS Traveller List with an<BR>
> emphasis on low volume and<BR>
> > high quality!<BR>
<BR>
Moderated? you mean, "censored"? Evil stuff! It is<BR>
best to avoid the beginnings of an evil, a great<BR>
libertarian once said, we may just have to get a<BR>
second amendment to our aussie constitution if this<BR>
continues! Power to the people! Flame if you want to,<BR>
delete mail unread if you don't! "Moderation in<BR>
moderation," I say!:)<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:13:30 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Legate Legion<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/2000 01:58, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ....<BR>
>> more of those.  Rather than killing Legate Legion (i.e. kicking<BR>
>> him off the list), I propose we shun him for a period of one month.<BR>
> <BR>
>> If everyone ignores him for a month that might be sufficient<BR>
>> punishment to deter him from such a childish and uncultured<BR>
>> act in the future.<BR>
> <BR>
> This would at least have the advantage of being nearly effortless<BR>
> in addition to being ineffectual; we are after all talking about an<BR>
> individual whose response when questioned as to why he hated all sorts<BR>
> of seemingly innocent people (e.g., children who play CCG's) amounted<BR>
> to "because they deserve it".<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
Excuse me, but it would seem to me that everyone could set up their MAIL<BR>
FILTERS so that whenever they ran across a post from the person in question,<BR>
it would be automatically deleted. If your mail program was too primitive to<BR>
have filters, you see his address, DON'T CLICK ON IT...just TRASH it.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:37:02 -0500<BR>
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Other lists<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 02:57:26 -0600<BR>
> From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
> <BR>
> "David J. Golden" wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >         Hear Hear! Unlike a small minority, *I'm* not threatened (and never<BR>
> > have been) by discussions that stray from my favorite version of the<BR>
> > rules/setting/interpretation. I *like* cross-pollinization. Even<BR>
> > ship/vehicle designs I can't use directly are still interesting ...<BR>
> > or I can just Ctrl-D...<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
I too like cross-pollination.  But imho the signal to noise ratio on<BR>
this list has gotten way outta hand.  With the digest version,<BR>
seperating the wheat from the chaff becomes a real chore.  <BR>
<BR>
Just to add to the general confusion, I'll mention yet another list:<BR>
gurpstraveller@egroups.com<BR>
<BR>
Not moderated, but very quiet....<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
John<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 03:46:34 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
> "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>  you [Peter Newman] wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Kiri, I am afraid that you do not understand the true meaning <BR>
> >of the word Family. Family refers to certain entirely<BR>
> >legitimate and honest businessmen, often of Italian <BR>
> >extraction, who are constantly harassed in their legitimate<BR>
> >business activities by the intrusive government.<BR>
<BR>
> Peter, you and I have to get together so I can do my Marlon Brando<BR>
> impersonation for you.<BR>
<BR>
Sure if/when I'm in the SF area.<BR>
<BR>
You are correct in assuming that this post was meant to<BR>
be read in a Marlon Brandoish voice, preferably his<BR>
early 70's voice, I can't imagine how you were able to<BR>
guess this though....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:03:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Jan 00, at 17:15, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
> <BR>
> >On 3 Jan 00, at 11:53, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> >> Mmm Aftermath:  "OK, guys, let's think about it.  Is there<BR>
> >> anything at all that we can do to avoid a firefight?  Because<BR>
> >> you all know that if we get into one, that's all we'll<BR>
> >> accomplish this session."<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Actually I was joking. We used Aftermath for years and found<BR>
> >that once everyone knew how it worked it moved along just fine.<BR>
> <BR>
> I wasn't joking, but my comments come from my experience<BR>
> playtesting Aftermath when I was a college student -- before the<BR>
> flow chart.  <BR>
<BR>
You got to play-test Aftermath? Wow. Privileged.<BR>
<BR>
We never used the flow-chart. It just confused the newbies and the old <BR>
hands didn't need it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:03:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: re:  Humanitarianism<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Jan 00, at 17:41, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
> <BR>
> >If a "vegetarian" is a person who only eats vegetables, then<BR>
> >what is a "humanitarian"?<BR>
> <BR>
> No, when I used to call myself a fairly strict vegetarian, I<BR>
> meant that I generally ate only vegetarians (deer, steers,<BR>
> etc.).  I actually have always eaten a lot of insectivores, too<BR>
> (chicken, turkey).  <BR>
<BR>
Both of these would be omnivores, from what I've seen.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:03:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
On 4 Jan 00, at 12:20, david.d.jaques-watson@centrel wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
> <BR>
> David replied to someone:<BR>
> >At 11:01 pm 1/2/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> >>I'm somewhat troubled by the rumblings surrounding a split of the TML.<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, I unsubbed over the holidays, so it looks like I missed all the...<BR>
> fun?!?<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, even if I had still been on, I sort of assumed that<BR>
> signal-to-noise would increase, simply because it always has at the end of<BR>
> every year. This year, I thought, should have been even worse (and<BR>
> apparently I was right), but it probably just reflects the general noise<BR>
> being made in the media and community about "the millenium".<BR>
<BR>
No, no it wasn't the end of last year that was bad. It was the <BR>
beginning of this one. For a while there it looked like three fine <BR>
flame wars inside of two days, but number three turned malignant <BR>
practically instantly and killed off the others.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:03:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Jan 00, at 22:08, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> That's true.  Aftermath wasn't nearly as hard to play as people seem<BR>
> to think.  IMO, it needed a better explained task resolution system<BR>
> and DAT (Detailed Action Time) was just plain obsessive, but it<BR>
> wasn't hard to play.  Of course, I played it fast and loose...just<BR>
> like everything else. <g><BR>
<BR>
Actually I still think that its extended task system is one of the best <BR>
there is. Having variable length turns and totals gives amazing <BR>
flexibility.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:03:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: New Group!<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Jan 00, at 23:15, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 01/03/00 at 11:13 PM,  "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >On 3 Jan 00, at 1:27, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >>         Steven Hudson - a CT person on the G:T list - go figure!<BR>
> <BR>
> >Had I a functioning credit card I'd be a TNE fan on a G:T list, so <BR>
> >there!<BR>
> <BR>
> There already is at least ONE...sort of.  <g> I lurk on several of<BR>
> the lists over there.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, but you're a heretic, and I'm sure that no matter where you end up <BR>
you'll find a way to remain one.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:03:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Keyboard kills & misc <BR>
<BR>
On 3 Jan 00, at 21:06, Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well I like buff or plump women, and that isn't all that common. Liking<BR>
> lean guys is likewise not as common, so if we can compromise with a<BR>
> diversity of ethnics, both genders, and those ranges, we should be fair<BR>
> and let the tubbies and sticks wear thongs/tights/what-have-you. Norton<BR>
> gets his sexy tights if he wants them.<BR>
<BR>
What's not that common - liking buff and/or plump women, or seeing <BR>
them? Personally I find the current fashion of skinny women with big <BR>
tits less than atttractive. I always find myself wondering what use <BR>
such women have aside from making fashion houses heps of cash.<BR>
<BR>
(This not not intended as an attack on these (or any other) people, <BR>
merely as a completely off-topic personal observation).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:03:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Versions - What I Liked and Did Not Like<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Jan 00, at 23:28, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 01/03/00 at 11:22 PM,  scharlto@ifsna.com said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >People can like or hate what they like.  Very few people agree with all<BR>
> >of my likes or dislikes, so I reptty much don't worry about it any more.<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, said, Steve!  All the versions have their good and bad points<BR>
> and as I've said before the games we play are *all* in our own<BR>
> personal version (or vision) of Traveller.  <BR>
> <BR>
> Dare I say it again?  Sure, why not.  We are all Traveller heretics<BR>
> in *someone's* TU, so let's value our differences.<BR>
<BR>
That's absolutely untrue! How dare you say it! MTU is utterly canon! <BR>
The fact that I use TNE with D10s for damage, assign initiative levels <BR>
differently and use rules for FIMs that I wrote myself merely means <BR>
that the stuff GDW published is no longer canon ;)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:03:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
On 4 Jan 00, at 22:13, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> > >Unless he was talking about bottles.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > <shudder> Please speak not of The Evil Liquid so casually...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I (I'm told) drank one bottle to myself on an occasion this summer. It<BR>
> > was an experience I'm not that keen to repeat.<BR>
> <BR>
> Aw, come on, only one ?<BR>
> <BR>
> Mind you, I do come from the New Zealand Armed Forces, where drinking is<BR>
> subsidized to the extent that people order jugs of rum & coke rather than<BR>
> doubles, so my experience may be a bit warped. <grin><BR>
<BR>
And then they wonder why it's the last refuge of the good old NZ men's <BR>
society of drunkness, somking and alcoholism.<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:03:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Jan 00, at 22:57, Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 1/3/00 2:00:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
> frankie@mundens.gen.nz writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> << Reportedly that guy has also repeatedly refused to sell the copyright<BR>
> on<BR>
>  Daredevils, Aftermath, & Bushido, either back to Bob & Paul, or to other<BR>
>  companies who were willing to republish it.<BR>
> <BR>
>  Much like Mr. Sanger. >><BR>
> <BR>
> I know Scott. He's not nearly as bad as the dark one...:-). <BR>
<BR>
From what I've heard it was mainly that he wanted the authors to buy <BR>
all the old stock along with the copyrights. Seeing as the authors <BR>
wanted the coprrights, trademarks, etc so they could write new editions <BR>
they naturally weren't very interested in spending money they didn't <BR>
have on stock they were about to make obselete.<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:03:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
On 4 Jan 00, at 1:06, Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> No, either Moorsyth Engineering, Moorsyth Design or ANRAtech (depending on<BR>
> the time period). For a sample of our fiscal policy, I submit the ANRAtech<BR>
> Trabant-IV, a 170-dTon freighter which can earn back its purchase cost in<BR>
> a mere six years, five months.<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.nickb.ndirect.co.uk/tneships/FT_Traba.html<BR>
> <BR>
> You'll note the lack of spinal mounts.<BR>
<BR>
I'll ol' Nick this - he's one of the few people on the TNE list who <BR>
produces designs that might get past the accountants (unlike those of <BR>
this poster :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 14:09:45 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: Santanocheev the Man<BR>
<BR>
Steven Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
>Hans Rancke commented:<BR>
> <BR>
>>Santanocheev propably does not have a seat in the Moot.  [...]<BR>
<BR>
>There was a reference to "Rear Admiral Lord Santanocheev" in an 1106 TNS <BR>
>news brief, though --<BR>
> <BR>
>     |: Efate/Regina (0105-A646930-D) Date: 148-1106<BR>
 <BR>
I stand corrected. If he is Lord Santanocheev, he's a peer (unless it's a<BR>
local title, and IMO the Imperial services don't use local titles). So he<BR>
is at least a baron. Though not necessarily from the Spinward Marches. He<BR>
could be from Deneb or maybe even Corridor. But if he IS Duchess' Delphine's<BR>
fair-haired boy, odds are that he is one of her vassals.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent<BR>
         events based on the individual situation."<BR>
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:25:53 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
I'm with you Jesse.  MEAT!  MEAT!  MEAT!  <chant of villagers from<BR>
DragonHeart>  :)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 1:48 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> All of it sounds good to me!!!  Dammit, it's almost bedtime and here I am<BR>
> craving some SERIOUS barbeque!!!!!!!!<BR>
><BR>
> I know BayCon has Party Floors, I wonder if they have BBQ Floors?  :D<BR>
><BR>
> Jesse<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:34:39 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
A Mullet for me?  Well now that's quite fascinating as my Boss's last name<BR>
is "Mullet".<BR>
<BR>
Besides, I'm still pouting about the Kenji-Kiri thing.  Kenji gets to have<BR>
all the fun!  <stamps foot>  :)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 12:20 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new<BR>
year)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On 01/03/00 at 11:19 PM,  "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
> >I'd be too afraid to see my own brain..God only knows what I'd find..it<BR>
> >might even be a........PENGUIN!<BR>
><BR>
> Calm down Jory, or we'll have to break out the mullet for you too!<BR>
><BR>
> Eris<BR>
> --<BR>
> -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
> -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1661<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1662</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1662<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
The Night They Drove Old Terra Down <BR>
Ron Cobb's artwork (was Re: GURPS vs. T5?)<BR>
RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: Legate Legion<BR>
Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
RE: Turbolifts<BR>
re: Turbolifts<BR>
RE: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
Re: SJG bashing<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Fashion and Art in the 3I.<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
re: Turbolifts<BR>
Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
Re: Old Craft<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Megatraveller Rules<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:46:42 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
Actually, Boothill was VERY different in that it used d% for all it's stats<BR>
and the brawl and grapple charts were pretty unique.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 8:54 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Multi-Genre games<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> ><BR>
> >>> TSR had Boot Hill and AD&D on the same mechanics by 81,<BR>
><BR>
> Not really. But there was a conversion table in the back of the rule<BR>
> book, in case you wanted to use cowboys against fantasy critters or<BR>
> some such.<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:44:36 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
>----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
>> Well, there are folks that will set you up for nothing and only<BR>
>> charge 10-15% per order.  I suppose I really should mention<BR>
>> this to Marc.  One that I have had some dealings with is<BR>
>> http://www.ibill.com/<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
At 12:45 AM 1/4/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Let him know that The Traveller Trader on Downport.com will do it for half<BR>
>that ;-)<BR>
><BR>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
>Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
<BR>
        You folks support SSL?  <blinks>  Why the *hell* didn't you say so?<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 05:07:38 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: The Night They Drove Old Terra Down <BR>
<BR>
The Night They Drove Old Terra Down<BR>
<BR>
by Master Sgt. J.R. Robertson Solomani Confederation Army<BR>
BCx4, SSx2, OS, [B.Sc., GenEngineering, Old Miss]  deceased.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Virgil White is the name, and I served at the Danville Meson Site,<BR>
<BR>
'Til Stoneman's Tigress came and blew it up one night.<BR>
<BR>
In the summer of '23, We were hungry, just barely free.<BR>
<BR>
By June the tenth, L.A. had fell, it's a time I remember, oh so well,<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(Chorus)<BR>
<BR>
The Night They Drove Old Terra Down, and the bells were ringing,<BR>
<BR>
The Night They Drove Old Terra Down, and the people were singin'.  <BR>
<BR>
They went   <BR>
                       <BR>
LA,  LA, LA, LA, LA, LA,     LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA,    LA, LA,<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Back with my wife in Tennessee, When one day she called, of course ,<BR>
<BR>
"Virgil, quick, come see, there goes the Terran Occ Force!"<BR>
<BR>
Now I don't mind gen-engineering' wood, and I don't care if the money's no good.<BR>
<BR>
Ya take what ya need and ya leave the rest,<BR>
<BR>
But they should never have taken the very best.     <BR>
<BR>
(Chorus)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Like my father before me, I will work the land,<BR>
<BR>
Like my daughter above me, who took a rebel stand.<BR>
<BR>
She was just eighteen, proud and brave,  But an Impie laid her in her grave,<BR>
<BR>
I swear by the mud below my feet, <BR>
<BR>
You can't raise a White back up when he's in defeat.    <BR>
<BR>
(Chorus and fade) <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Sgt Robertson was born in the North American Region of <BR>
Terra/Solomani Rim in 5481 to a loyal and patriotic family <BR>
of certified 100% pure Solomani blood. Upon reaching the <BR>
age of 18 he joined the Solomani Army for a single term, <BR>
where he attained the rank of Corporal. He then retired <BR>
to his families agricultural complex where he married<BR>
his childhood love, the 100% Solomani Antonia Woodward, and<BR>
raised their, 100% Solomani, children to serve the Confederation.<BR>
Sgt Robertson continued to serve, as all loyal 100% Solmani<BR>
should, in the Home Guard, which even now protects our<BR>
beloved Confederation Motherland from the perfidious Mongrel-Men<BR>
of the evil Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Following the treacherous sneak attack by the perfidious<BR>
Imperials in 5511 Sgt Robertson returned to active duty with <BR>
the Solomani Confederation Army Artillery as a member of the<BR>
famous 443rd Battalion, which can trace its unit history<BR>
back over 3,500 years to before the Wars of Interstellar<BR>
Liberation. Sgt Robertson served with the 443 through<BR>
several famous battles. Sgt Robertson was awarded the Order of <BR>
Sol in 5517 for his heroism  during the Siege of Dingir.<BR>
In the aftermath of the Battle of Dingir, in 5523 the 443rd <BR>
returned to Holy Mother Terra to defend it from the <BR>
Mongrel-Men of the Imperium. [Due to heavy losses during<BR>
the 443rd heroic defense of Los Angeles Sgt Robertson <BR>
was breveted to Captain, although with the modesty typical<BR>
of a 100% pure Solomani Robertson insisted in being <BR>
addresed merely as Sgt after the end of the War of<BR>
Solomani Liberty.]<BR>
<BR>
After his release from the brutally cruel Imperial<BR>
prison camp Paulo in 5524 Sgt Robertson had to cross North<BR>
America, by foot, to return to his beloved 100% Solomani<BR>
family, who lived in the Tennesse Cultural Region. Upon<BR>
his return to his family Sgt Robertson was heartbroken to <BR>
learn that his beloved daughter Althea [Recruit Althea <BR>
Robertson, Solomani Confederation Army Infantry 5505-5523] <BR>
had been killed fighting to protect her beloved Motherland <BR>
from the Mongrel-Men. Sgt Robertson returned to work on his <BR>
families agricultural complex and took up an active role in<BR>
the Phoenix Resistance against the vile Imperial Marine<BR>
Corp. [Lament at the perfidiousness of the Alien controlled<BR>
Mongrel-Men of  the Imperium.] Sgt Robertson also returned to<BR>
his lifelong hobby of song writing. The Night they drove Old<BR>
Terra Down is believed to be a thinly fioctionalized account <BR>
of Sgt Robertsons own life. Sgt Robertson was killed by the<BR>
Mongrel-Men of the Imperium in 5531 as he attempted to resist<BR>
their oppressive rule. [Never forget that tens of billions of<BR>
our brother 100% pure Solomani, and our glorious homeland Holy<BR>
Mother Terra herself still lie beneath the jackboots of the<BR>
Mongrel-Men. One day we will free them!]<BR>
<BR>
- -from the liner notes to the single The Night They Drove Old <BR>
Terra Down Home/Alderan (c) 5540 by Killing Moon Entertainment<BR>
[approved by SolSec].<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
an adaptation of The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, by<BR>
J.R. Robertson of The Band  1970 Canaan Music, Inc. <BR>
[used without permission, no challenge intended] located,<BR>
with guitar chords, at:<BR>
<BR>
http://theband.hiof.no/lyrics/night_they_drove_old_dixie_down.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:00:51 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Ron Cobb's artwork (was Re: GURPS vs. T5?)<BR>
<BR>
Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
    I like Foss, his big, spooky spaceships just hanging over a landscape<BR>
strikes a chord in me. I'm a huge fan of Ron Cobb, he draws them the way I<BR>
see them in my warped imagination. (Sort of industrial looking.) If you can,<BR>
get a hold of the Alien movie book that features some of Cobbs designs, it<BR>
has a set of standard industrial icons for things like "Hard Hat Area" and<BR>
"Low Gravity Area." Really cool.<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
Cobb's work in the Alien movie book was amazing. I'm almost certain his<BR>
"California Split Level" starship bridge design was direct inspiration for<BR>
the bridge of the Donosev-class survey cruiser seen in DGP's _World<BR>
Builder's Handbook_.<BR>
<BR>
His industrial vision of space travel is perfect, IMO, for Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:21:27 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
At 10:24 PM 1/4/00 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
>>         Hi, David...<BR>
>><BR>
>>         Its more the issue that the Secure Site Certificate costs ~$400US<BR>
>> PER YEAR...  then you need the back-end software and a bail of other<BR>
>> stuff....  Places like _Digital River_ charge a USD600 set up fee and then<BR>
>> take 10% - 20% per order they handle....  you've gotta be damn sure you're<BR>
>> gonna make some good coin (USD1000+) to make it worth it....<BR>
><BR>
>So don't bother with Secure Site Certificates.<BR>
>They're not neccessary, just use a normal form.<BR>
><BR>
>No-one bothers stealing credit card numbers on the net (and if they do their<BR>
>so stupid they're unlikely to be bale to sue it correctly, there are<BR>
>programs out there generate valid credit card numbers for you.<BR>
><BR>
>The Secure Site gimmick is just for idiots who don't know how credit cards<BR>
>or the internet work.<BR>
><BR>
>Frankie<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
        Hi, Frankie...  I would be one of those "idiots" then...  <BR>
<BR>
        Which is to say that it isn't the amatuers you have to worry about,<BR>
its "idiots" like me who know staff at most major ISPs in Halifax and could,<BR>
if I wanted to, get a box onto a trunk to filter traffic to/from places like<BR>
Digital RIver looking for Visa numbers.  If, that is, they didn't use<BR>
128-bit encryption.<BR>
<BR>
        Let's face it, I only need the number for 24 hours...<BR>
<BR>
        It's not the amatuers you need to worry about, its the "idiot"<BR>
professionals such as some of the cracker gangs you need to worry about.<BR>
Give them an inch and they'll pry it open to a mile and give thier friends<BR>
root access to go with it...<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:37:50 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Legate Legion<BR>
<BR>
>Excuse me, but it would seem to me that everyone could set up their MAIL<BR>
>FILTERS so that whenever they ran across a post from the person in question,<BR>
>it would be automatically deleted. If your mail program was too primitive to<BR>
>have filters, you see his address, DON'T CLICK ON IT...just TRASH it.<BR>
<BR>
The problem is, some of us subscribe to the Digest version of the list.<BR>
Your strategy would not work for the Digest subscribers (such as myself).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:24:13 -0000<BR>
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
<BR>
>Well a traveller /// TML Game in Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK.<BR>
>March 11th and 12th<BR>
<BR>
I will definitely be getting there (so long as I'm welcome, that is!), and<BR>
will be travelling by car, so anyone in the Liverpool area who needs<BR>
transport,<BR>
please contact me of list. (Dom, if you're going, we could finally meet up)<BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones<BR>
St Helens<BR>
Lancashire UK<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:08:40 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Turbolifts<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith writes:<BR>
>I think the lift shaft can be designed with this in mind. Just<BR>
>like an elevator shaft, the lift shaft can have recessed ladder<BR>
>rungs and escape doors on the car. The rungs may not even be<BR>
>needed, if a grav plate failure leaves the lift shaft in zero G<BR>
>(which it should be in anyway, right?).<BR>
<BR>
	Only if the ship is not accelerating.<BR>
<BR>
>How about a panel beside each iris valve, containing a handwheel<BR>
>for cranking the thing open? With a socket for a rotary power<BR>
>tool, so a mechanic (or someone else with a tool kit) can open it<BR>
>faster.<BR>
<BR>
	This is the sort of thing I was imagining.<BR>
<BR>
>You'd have to consider security, though. How do you lock or unlock<BR>
>an iris valve in a secure fashion with no power? Keys?<BR>
<BR>
	This is an interesting problem.  Perhaps the lock would have<BR>
	it's own power source.  If this power source is exhausted (as,<BR>
	for example, in a ship that has been abandoned for many<BR>
	decades, or one that has been shot by a PC), it might be<BR>
	possible to hook up an external power source.  Ultimately, it<BR>
	should be possible to bypass a lock that has malfunctioned.<BR>
	Cutting is the heavy-handed approach, "picking" the lock is<BR>
	the light-handed approach, and fiddling with the mechanical<BR>
	or electronic components would fall somewhere in between.<BR>
	Ultimately, no lock will stop a well-equiped/trained sophont,<BR>
	merely slow it down.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:00:21 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Turbolifts<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
If your shafts go all the way to the outer hull, they could double as ecape<BR>
pods/life boats. How much space would an air scrubber take up anyway? <BR>
Could one fit into the wall of a lift car?<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
Now that's an interesting idea.<BR>
<BR>
My deck plans of the Enterprise-D from Star Trek: The Next Generation<BR>
included pass-throughs to connect the ship's turbolift system to that<BR>
of a starbase - hop on a lift in main engineering, hop off at Starbase 9's<BR>
hottest dance club. I didn't go with this particular idea on my Traveller<BR>
deckplan design, but a way to get the cars out of the system and<BR>
either into space (for escape purposes) or into another system (for<BR>
integrated transport) sounds like a good idea.<BR>
<BR>
DGP designed a "grav tube", I think in _World Builder's Handbook_. <BR>
It was pretty much a grav belt that you stood inside instead of wearing.<BR>
If an anti-grav device works OK in an artificial gravity field, then the<BR>
Caseline Grav-tube might be a good starting point for these self-contained<BR>
turbolift cars.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:23:02 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz writes:<BR>
>I don't think this _has_ been really addressed much.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
>>(Are there any artists or costumers on this list who would be<BR>
>>interested in discussing Vilani, Zhodani, or Far Future Solomani<BR>
>>art and clothing and homecrafts styles with me, either here or<BR>
>>on Trav-Culture?<BR>
<BR>
	I have thought a little about clothing, jewelry, architecture,<BR>
	etc., not from any academic interest (I live in t-shirt and<BR>
	shorts unless my fiance dictates otherwise), but rather to<BR>
	add colour to my descriptions.  I have nobles in the Spinward<BR>
	Marches favouring loose, baggy clothing, sometimes with snug<BR>
	cuffs.  Large, ornate hats are often worn.  Footwear is<BR>
	usually soft.  Dark colours are popular.  Typically, hair is<BR>
	worn long and delicately styled.  Skin may be coloured, with<BR>
	various patterns (nails too).  The emphasis is on the fact<BR>
	that one doesn't work.<BR>
<BR>
	Spacers usually wear snug clothing and short hair, but tastes<BR>
	vary widely.  Naturally, worlds vary even more.  Local<BR>
	conditions (atmosphere, hydrgrahics, temperature, TL, etc.)<BR>
	will influence things.  I try to give each world a flavour,<BR>
	and each NPC a style.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:33:01 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/3/00 7:34:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Would I be in trouble then for basing my opinion of AOL on the users of<BR>
 AOL? (No offense meant Seth kimmel, Loren or any one else I may have<BR>
 forgotten)<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Whine mode on....IT'S MY WIFE'S FAULT. I DON'T EVEN WANT TO USE AOL....whine <BR>
mode off...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:35:36 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/3/00 7:35:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Of course, if you listen to S. John Ross over on Usenet, Gene Seabolt is<BR>
 either the Anti-Christ, or his younger brother. >><BR>
<BR>
Why on earth for? He's a rarity; a real 3 piece suit bean counter who is also <BR>
a gamer. He's perfect for Steve...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:44:25 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
I'm starting to remember Chris vowing to keep up some sort of "World<BR>
Party" for another 2000+ days; at the time, it didn't sound so ominous...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm not sure that I'd want to see the Village Sentients, myself. The list<BR>
> has proven that it can't handle lesbian Aslan, do you really think that the<BR>
> world is ready for flamboyantly homosexual K'Kree? <BR>
<BR>
The world?  The _world_?  Screw the world!  The TML is ready for it, and<BR>
that's all that counts!<BR>
<BR>
> Think before you post Kenji. <BR>
<BR>
<slap forehed> Doh!  Thanks.  I always forget that part.  People are<BR>
always having to remind me.<BR>
<BR>
> remains the leather man. If you're a Classic Traveller player, the leather<BR>
> man is also known under those rules as "The Other". The blue collar work<BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
<BR>
> This leaves us with the cop. As we all know, the Imperium's hands off<BR>
> approach to its member worlds means that individual worlds are left to<BR>
> handle their affairs however they wish. At best, any interstellar police<BR>
> force that would exist would work behind the scenes and probably wouldn't<BR>
> have the proper resonance with Imperial citizens that the position of<BR>
> Village Person would require. The only logical choice, therefore, would be<BR>
> the noble.<BR>
<BR>
Your cunning, while great, is still strained to contain your degenerate,<BR>
un-Traveller agenda, comrade!<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:47:32 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Fashion and Art in the 3I.<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Concerning specific fashions and styles, it's really up to you. Someone did<BR>
> do an Imperial KiSS[1] quite some time ago. I've lost it, and I've never<BR>
> seen it on any KiSS doll pages. I think it contained mostly adventuring type<BR>
> outfits.<BR>
<BR>
It might have been Jo Grant, who (IIRC) was fairly active in the old<BR>
discussion on TravLang.  Not sure if he's still around.<BR>
<BR>
> hair, shaved hair and there's plenty that can be done to the head if all the<BR>
> hair's gone.<BR>
<BR>
Broiling?<BR>
<BR>
Uh... sorry.  I'll go have breakfast first and come back to the TML later.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:49:59 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> >>Well, being either kind is technically prosecutable across the bulk of the<BR>
> >>USA, so it's hardly surprising.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>Kenji<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, there are a lot of states where it's not illegal. Oregon is<BR>
> one of them. <BR>
<BR>
Oregon, land of pot-smoking degenerates, has _no laws_ against them?<BR>
Yegad! This just PROVES that the Mafia, drug dealers, and homosexuals are<BR>
all in it together, and they're trying to set up a safe base of operations<BR>
from which to collaborate with the Black Helicopters and form a beachhead<BR>
for an invasion of our country by the United Nations!<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:51:10 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Jason T. Barnabas wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Are you crazed man?  The only sane methodology would<BR>
> include the use of a dart gun or some sweet young thing to<BR>
> sooth him while someone sneaks up to inject him from<BR>
> behind.  :-o<BR>
<BR>
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!<BR>
<BR>
Like *any* of you people could procure a "sweet young thing", on list or<BR>
off!  Hahahahahahahahahaha!<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:55:46 -0500 <BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: re: Turbolifts<BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
>I think the lift shaft can be designed with this in mind. Just <BR>
>like an elevator shaft, the lift shaft can have recessed ladder <BR>
>rungs and escape doors on the car. The rungs may not even be <BR>
>needed, if a grav plate failure leaves the lift shaft in zero G <BR>
>(which it should be in anyway, right?). <BR>
<BR>
        Only if the ship is not accelerating. <BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
Depends on how inertial compensation works. If inertial comp is<BR>
one feature of the same grav plates that provide you with 1G of<BR>
"up" and "down", sure. <BR>
<BR>
I can also see a localized failure in just the gravitics that<BR>
propel the lift car causing the car to become stranded, without<BR>
affecting the grav environment of the shaft. Inertial comp easily<BR>
allows zero G areas in an accelerating ship, IMO.<BR>
<BR>
(I personally use inertial compensators as a related, yet seperate<BR>
system with respect to artificial gravity. IMTU they're more like<BR>
dampeners than compensators, as the difference is very important<BR>
for allowing the space-opera like shipboard combat I enjoy.<BR>
<BR>
The difference: Inertial Compensators are applying an equal and<BR>
opposite force to any acceleration. Thus, a ship capable of 6G<BR>
acceleration should have grav plates in every part of the ship<BR>
capable of slamming boarders into bulkheads at 6G, without ever<BR>
moving the ship. Even a Free Trader should be able to turn any<BR>
corridor into a deadly bottomless pit by turning off the gravity<BR>
and reversing the inertial comp every couple of seconds.<BR>
<BR>
Inertial Dampeners (as I am understanding them reduce acceleration<BR>
effects on things within the field. I think this makes them more<BR>
amenable to actions aboard...if you want to slam those p*rates into a <BR>
bulkhead at 6G, you at least have to move the ship a little bit.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:05:03 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
Dude, buddy, someday you just have to see my wife...  And she fires a mean<BR>
paintball...<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
><BR>
>Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!<BR>
><BR>
>Like *any* of you people could procure a "sweet young thing", on list or<BR>
>off!  Hahahahahahahahahaha!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:02:23 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/4/00 1:49:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, aramis@gci.net <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< CCG's are such a problem in local schools, they have been banned from<BR>
 elementary and middle schools locally. Or more specifically, MTG and<BR>
 Pokemon have. STTNG hasn't specifically been banned. Which is why I had to<BR>
 prevent a near fist-fight in a 5-6th grade class I was subbing in over a<BR>
 sheet of cards (vinyl pocketed sheet holding 12 cards).<BR>
 <BR>
 Pokemon toys have similar effects. They are SO in demand that they are<BR>
 causing fights and thefts in the elementary schools.<BR>
 True, this is not the intended place of play, but it is a result of their<BR>
 marketing and player bases. >><BR>
<BR>
This is why I dislike MTG and Poke. so much. Legate's meltdown missed one <BR>
thing. The problem with these two games is the COLLECTABILLITY of them. It <BR>
stops being a game of skill, and a game of whoever has the most money buys <BR>
the best deck. The rare cards and the hyper atempts to get them is what is <BR>
causing the problems with the kids (and some adults). I thing CCG's severely <BR>
damaged our hobby and I won't forgive them for it. That being said, even <BR>
though I don't play them, I don't mind nonCCGs (the ones that include all <BR>
cards needed to play in one package).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:06:36 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Old Craft<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/4/00 2:26:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
daveshayne@email.msn.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< For short distance and few passenger flights props are still the way<BR>
 to go. I know airbus was producing a prop (maybe turboprop) in the<BR>
 previous decade(they may still be.) And a couple of years ago I flew on<BR>
 a small Dornier prop plane (20-24 passenger capacity IIRC) That couldn't<BR>
 have been more than 20 or so years old. In short propeller driven<BR>
 aircraft still fill an economically usefull niche.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Turbo props are VERY effiecient fuel wise, and are used where speed isn't as <BR>
important which is when you need turbofans. Piston props are much less likely <BR>
commercially because of the need for AvGas. They ARE fun to fly though (my <BR>
Megabucks (28MilUS$ Vegas jackpot) fantasy is an old Long Island built <BR>
warbird like a P47 or F6F,F4F, TBF).<BR>
The engineers on the list can correct my goofs if I'm wrong...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:07:20 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Michel Vaillancourt" <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
><BR>
>         You folks support SSL?  <blinks>  Why the *hell* didn't you say<BR>
so?<BR>
<BR>
Um... oh.  Does that make a difference?<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 16:11:41 GMT<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Megatraveller Rules<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know if there was an edition of Megatraveller which was <BR>
completely Errata free?  How does one identify it?  Eg. which edition, <BR>
copyright date, etc.<BR>
   Does anyone on the list also have a copy of Parnonia's Beyond Sector <BR>
which they would like to sell.<BR>
Boris Cibic<BR>
kafka47@hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 12:22:10 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
At 11:07 AM 1/4/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: "Michel Vaillancourt" <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
>><BR>
>>         You folks support SSL?  <blinks>  Why the *hell* didn't you say<BR>
>so?<BR>
><BR>
>Um... oh.  Does that make a difference?<BR>
><BR>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
>Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
<BR>
        To someone who is looking for an SSL-based ecommerce site to sell<BR>
shareware on, yes...<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1662<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1663</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1663<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Megatraveller Rules<BR>
Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
Re: Megatraveller Rules<BR>
Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Got one!<BR>
Re: Gearhead Question<BR>
Re:: Legate Legion, and TML Courtesy  (Longish and Preachy)<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
RE: party???<BR>
Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
RE: SJG bashing<BR>
Re: SJG bashing<BR>
Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
DVDs and other storage media (was RE: There is one ...)<BR>
OT (w/penguines): Reality<BR>
RE: Megatraveller Rules<BR>
Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
Re: Gunnery<BR>
Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
RE: party???<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
RE: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:21:47 -0700<BR>
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Megatraveller Rules<BR>
<BR>
Boris Cibic wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Does anyone know if there was an edition of Megatraveller which was<BR>
> completely Errata free?  How does one identify it?  Eg. which edition,<BR>
> copyright date, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I have all the MT rules in Word format. I created them from the<BR>
printed manuals, and added most of the errata fixes to them.<BR>
<BR>
A while back I got permission from Marc Miller to distribute ten copies<BR>
of them to members of this list (and one copy to him).<BR>
<BR>
If you get permissions from him, I'll send them to you.<BR>
- -- <BR>
Erwin Fritz<BR>
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.<BR>
http://www.glja.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:41:03 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >>You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
> >>you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
> >>Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
> ><BR>
> >OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
> <BR>
> You mean someone's gotta get close enough to ManicKenji(TM) to force a<BR>
> needle in him? Or worse, make him swallow momma's little yellow helper??? ;)<BR>
> <BR>
You guys just aren't being creative enough.  I could think of a couple of<BR>
ways to do that.  =)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:47:59 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us><BR>
Subject: Re: Megatraveller Rules<BR>
<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
<BR>
> Does anyone know if there was an edition of Megatraveller which was <BR>
> completely Errata free?  How does one identify it?  Eg. which edition, <BR>
> copyright date, etc.<BR>
<BR>
<inner voice><BR>
Okay, okay, breathe...breathe! Down, smart a$$ remark, down! He <BR>
doesn't know any better. Otherwise, this would be way too easy...<BR>
</inner voice><BR>
<BR>
Um, to answer your question, no, an edition of MegaTraveller has not <BR>
been released that is completely Errata free, much to our lament. <BR>
Perhaps someday, after the Classic Traveller reprints have come and <BR>
gone, Marc Miller may dane to grant us an Errata-free reprint of MT, <BR>
but nothing has been announced at this time.<BR>
<BR>
My apologies,<BR>
Jason<BR>
<BR>
=============================<BR>
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV<BR>
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375<BR>
Internet Address:  jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us<BR>
<BR>
Most computer virus and email alerts are hoaxes.  For more info, check out:<BR>
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm<BR>
==============================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:48:38 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> > I'm not sure that I'd want to see the Village Sentients, myself. The list<BR>
> > has proven that it can't handle lesbian Aslan, do you really think that the<BR>
> > world is ready for flamboyantly homosexual K'Kree? <BR>
> <BR>
> The world?  The _world_?  Screw the world! <BR>
<BR>
Would this leave him enough time for Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
I mean their is nothing wrong with being poly if that's<BR>
what you like but the _whole_world_ seems like a bit<BR>
much. Think of the disease risks alone.<BR>
<BR>
> The TML is ready for it, and that's all that counts!<BR>
<BR>
> > This leaves us with the cop. As we all know, the Imperium's hands off<BR>
> > approach to its member worlds means that individual worlds are left to<BR>
> > handle their affairs however they wish. At best, any interstellar police<BR>
> > force that would exist would work behind the scenes and probably wouldn't<BR>
> > have the proper resonance with Imperial citizens that the position of<BR>
> > Village Person would require. The only logical choice, therefore, would be<BR>
> > the noble.<BR>
> <BR>
> Your cunning, while great, is still strained to contain your degenerate,<BR>
> un-Traveller agenda, comrade!<BR>
<BR>
Obviously the Village People are a Solomani group.<BR>
The Cop is a member of SolSec, those beloved guardians<BR>
of the purity and security of our beloved Confederation. <BR>
<BR>
Obviously the group of 100% pure Solomani who comprise the <BR>
Village People have sworn never to be intimate with women,<BR>
for fear that these women might be less than 100% pure <BR>
Solomani. It simply would not do to allow the birth of any<BR>
more part Solomani, part lesser race, Mongrel-Men. The<BR>
loyal and patriotic members of this 100% Solomani group<BR>
are thus, reluctantly, forced to confine their<BR>
recreational activities to same sex activities to ensure<BR>
the purity of the Master Race. Truly the nobility of their <BR>
sacrifice to the Solomani Cause should not be underestimated.<BR>
<BR>
- - Confederation UnderSecretary of Cultural Affairs Newman<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:10:58 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Got one!<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Obviously the Village People are a Solomani group.<BR>
> The Cop is a member of SolSec, those beloved guardians<BR>
> of the purity and security of our beloved Confederation. <BR>
> <BR>
> Obviously the group of 100% pure Solomani who comprise the <BR>
> Village People have sworn never to be intimate with women,<BR>
> for fear that these women might be less than 100% pure <BR>
> Solomani. It simply would not do to allow the birth of any<BR>
> more part Solomani, part lesser race, Mongrel-Men. The<BR>
> loyal and patriotic members of this 100% Solomani group<BR>
> are thus, reluctantly, forced to confine their<BR>
> recreational activities to same sex activities to ensure<BR>
> the purity of the Master Race. Truly the nobility of their <BR>
> sacrifice to the Solomani Cause should not be underestimated.<BR>
> <BR>
> - Confederation UnderSecretary of Cultural Affairs Newman<BR>
> <BR>
I am not sure of the scale, exactly, as I am here at work and haven't a<BR>
printout, but this was at least a 3.0.<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:24:36 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Gearhead Question<BR>
<BR>
Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>     I saw a reference in an ealier post to different sorts of airlocks, is<BR>
> this a TNE/T4/GURPS thing? Can someone enlighten a poor old MTer about these<BR>
> if thats the case?<BR>
<BR>
From FF&S2, page 79:<BR>
<BR>
"Minimal airlocks are extremely cramped while standard airlocks allow<BR>
room for a person to fit comfortably, or tow people cramped. <BR>
Decontamination facilities may be added to any airlock."<BR>
<BR>
Sizes (from Table 210, FF&S2, page 111):<BR>
<BR>
Minimal airlock:  1.0 m^3 volume, 0.06 ton mass, 1 m^2 area, 0.001 MCr<BR>
cost<BR>
Standard airlock: 3.0 m^3 volume, 0.2 ton mass, 2 m^2 area, 0.005 MCr<BR>
cost<BR>
Decon addition:   1.0 m^3 volume, 1.0 ton mass, no area, 0.001 MCr cost<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:24:55 -0700<BR>
From: "Eric T. Holmes" <eholmes@lanl.gov><BR>
Subject: Re:: Legate Legion, and TML Courtesy  (Longish and Preachy)<BR>
<BR>
Fellow TMLers:<BR>
<BR>
I may be a little late on this and I'm not trying to continue the "flame<BR>
war."  I've lived through "Clif" and survived.  I suppose the same thing<BR>
will happen with this "Legate" thing, too.  But I have to admit, I do get<BR>
tired of scanning through message after message where there is hardly any<BR>
Traveller content.  Try this after having been gone for three weeks and the<BR>
past fifteen posts are mostly "flame war."<BR>
<BR>
Since I have jumped ahead and not read the intervening posts between # 1638<BR>
and 1662, has "Legate" apologized to any one?  Maybe that is all he needs<BR>
to do.  I've been playing Traveller since 1978.  I've met Marc, Loren,<BR>
Steve and Gary G.  I even visited Bloomington to see the "shop up the<BR>
stairs," as a couple of us gamers in North Dakota called it.  So I've done<BR>
all these neat things, so what......Each person is his or her own<BR>
personality.  To think of all the players and referees I've run into over<BR>
the past 20 plus years.  What I think of them has no bearingon this list,<BR>
and I'll keep personal.<BR>
<BR>
I guess what I'm trying to say, let's not get personal on the TML and keep<BR>
to the subject, Traveller.  Personal attacks, or statements that can be<BR>
taken as such, should be considered before being posted.  I've been using<BR>
e-mail and other electronic communication systems now for 20 years.  If I<BR>
have learned anything, both from work and play, cool down before you write,<BR>
consider what you want to say, consider how you are going to say it, write<BR>
it down, wait 24 hours, and re-write it.  If you really aren't sure, have<BR>
someone else read it before you hit send or have someone else write it for you.<BR>
<BR>
Why do I say this?  I was one of those eager missile crew shave-tails that<BR>
accidently sent an ALL-CALL missile alert accidently.  It was supposed to<BR>
be a local communications training session while on alert.  Boy, was it ever!<BR>
<BR>
'Nuff said about e-mail courtesy and communications.<BR>
<BR>
Let's stick to the subject.<BR>
<BR>
Submit personal opinions offline, on some other newsletter or through<BR>
personal e-mail.  Just remember, Big Brother is out there, and we all can<BR>
request his help when threats are made.  You can be found.  They caught Mr.<BR>
Wen......<BR>
<BR>
Eric<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:27:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 01/03/00 at 11:16 PM,  Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >> >You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
> >> >you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
> >> >Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
>  <BR>
> >> OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
>  <BR>
> >Me me me ME!!!  Can I do it?  PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE?  I've been good!<BR>
> <BR>
> Certainly, Kira!  Do you have the mullet?<BR>
> <BR>
It's Kiri  =)  "Fog", not "Glittering"...<BR>
<BR>
> [Picture Kira bashing Kenji over the head with a large fish]<BR>
> <BR>
All kawaii onna have the ability to pull 1000 pound mallets (or mullets)<BR>
from a special anime dimension.  I'm no exception.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:20:59<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
At 10:35 AM 1/4/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
>In a message dated 1/3/00 7:35:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
>rtwilson@rollanet.org writes:<BR>
><BR>
><< Of course, if you listen to S. John Ross over on Usenet, Gene Seabolt is<BR>
> either the Anti-Christ, or his younger brother. >><BR>
><BR>
>Why on earth for? He's a rarity; a real 3 piece suit bean counter who is<BR>
>also a gamer. He's perfect for Steve...<BR>
<BR>
S. John is an *artist*.  Gene seems to think that deadlines mean something.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:25:36<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
At 10:48 PM 1/3/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>All of it sounds good to me!!!  Dammit, it's almost bedtime and here I am<BR>
>craving some SERIOUS barbeque!!!!!!!!<BR>
><BR>
>I know BayCon has Party Floors, I wonder if they have BBQ Floors?  :D<BR>
<BR>
Well, Disclave has B&D floors...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:28:31<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
<BR>
At 12:42 AM 1/4/2000 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>CCG's are such a problem in local schools, they have been banned from<BR>
>elementary and middle schools locally. Or more specifically, MTG and<BR>
>Pokemon have. STTNG hasn't specifically been banned. Which is why I had to<BR>
>prevent a near fist-fight in a 5-6th grade class I was subbing in over a<BR>
>sheet of cards (vinyl pocketed sheet holding 12 cards).<BR>
<BR>
When I was in 6th grade, yo-yos were the big thing.  The trick everybody<BR>
wanted to learn was keeping several going at once.<BR>
<BR>
After the fights and thefts, the school banned the things from the campus.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:31:05<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
At 09:26 PM 1/3/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>Not sure of actual timetable of festivities =)<BR>
<BR>
I'll be addressing this on TravellerinSF.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:31:30<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
At 11:59 PM 1/3/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Considering that we're thinking about getting the job done by "Redneck<BR>
>> Earl's Texas BBQ"...<BR>
><BR>
> Bad News on that front they went out of Bizness the 12 of last month....<BR>
<BR>
Oops.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:40:24 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year<BR>
<BR>
I suspect that's _exactly_ what he had in mind...That's what I thought<BR>
of immediately. <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 03:43 PM 1/3/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I'm gonna write in Doug's name in the first Luna City mayorial race.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Hear that, Doug?  Yer gonna be a civil servant!!<BR>
> <BR>
> Ever read "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"?  hehehehe...<BR>
> --<BR>
> <BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:14:00 -0600 ()<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: DVDs and other storage media (was RE: There is one ...)<BR>
<BR>
>Now now.  I have the DVD as well, but didn't rub it in TO THOSE POOR<BR>
>UNFORTUNATE SLOBS WHO HAVEN'T GONE TO DVD YET....er, ahem, 'scuz me, that<BR>
>slipped ;)<BR>
<BR>
Bah, who needs DVD? I get all the action, comedy, drama, horror, strife,<BR>
and science fiction adventure I need on the TML! :-)<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: In many recent sf movies and shows, it is assumed that data storage<BR>
will keep getting smaller, with tiny cd-like disks having multi-gigabyte<BR>
capacities used as the norm for data transfer. But how small is too small?<BR>
This is where human design considerations come into play. When the<BR>
technology to put a terabyte or three on a microdot comes into it's own,<BR>
how much wasted space must be added to make it comfortable for human use?<BR>
What is the smallest size you would imagine to be convenient for people to<BR>
use?<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:43:27 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: OT (w/penguines): Reality<BR>
<BR>
Today I happened to observe three kids watching some cartoon about penguins (pebble and penguin or something like it). At one poin the eldest (and wisest?) begun explaining to the others that the penguines weren't real. He had come to the conclusion that not everything in tv is for real, and these penguines were one of these things. Then he noted to the others that they were really humans, made to look like penguines with tv tricks.<BR>
<BR>
(Does all this mean that my reality anchor really wasn't all that Y2K-proof? Or does it just need new batteries?)<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:53:17 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Megatraveller Rules<BR>
<BR>
Jason Kemp wrote:<BR>
> Um, to answer your question, no, an edition of MegaTraveller<BR>
> has not been released that is completely Errata free, much to<BR>
> our lament.  Perhaps someday, after the Classic Traveller<BR>
> reprints have come and gone, Marc Miller may dane to grant us<BR>
> an Errata-free reprint of MT, but nothing has been announced at<BR>
> this time.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, I  thought  Marc  didn't  like  MT(*)  so  a  reprint  seems<BR>
unlikely.<BR>
<BR>
* = Which is odd considering it is the best ever version (CT  was<BR>
    merely MT-beta, and everything else is just heresy).<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 12:38:49 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
wading into this from a legal point of view. I believe one of the important<BR>
parts to this case is proof that you can pull it off. Or the implied belief<BR>
that the person threating will take some action.<BR>
<BR>
This is equal to yelling fire in a room verses me typing here let's go to<BR>
SJG (example only) and burn the building down. If I type that here then no<BR>
one really believes we're going to show up at SJG with torches. The same<BR>
applies here. No matter how inflamed LL may be no one here is quaking with<BR>
the fear that he will show up at their house on game night to check and see<BR>
if Gurps books are on the table or not.<BR>
<BR>
The key I believe, as a late comer, is to honestly looking at what was said<BR>
and defusing the emotion from the thought. Yes it is an emotionally charged<BR>
issue. Yes LL made some statements that may be unfriendly. BUT Does any one<BR>
really believe he'll show up on game night to see if ppl have gurps with<BR>
weapon in hand?<BR>
<BR>
Next point what court in the US would really convict LL for typing some<BR>
inflammatory remarks? If they would take time to do that I'd suggest that<BR>
moneys be spent more productively on something much better then what someone<BR>
typed on line...<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net><BR>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 2:57 AM<BR>
Subject: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>Turning this back to the original post - is threatening to kill<BR>
>>people an offense in the US?<BR>
>><BR>
>>Dom<BR>
><BR>
>varies by jurisdiction to some degree. And which DA gets the case, State or<BR>
>Fed. IIRC, terrorist threats are federal (Bloo, correct me if I'm wrong<BR>
>here). But, not all jurisdictions consider verbal threats to even be a<BR>
>misdemeanor assault.<BR>
><BR>
>In anchorage, AK, USA, you can walk up to someone and calmly say "I ought<BR>
>to kill you", and get no punishment at all. On the other hand, saying the<BR>
>same thing in a viscious tone, with a raised fist, or in an altered state<BR>
>is misdemeanor assault. Say it with a weapon, and it's a felony. Call in a<BR>
>bomb threat, and you get a felony charge, even if you planted a ladyfinger<BR>
>connected to a model rocket igniter in a light fixture, or didn't plant a<BR>
>bomb at all... assuming they catch you.<BR>
><BR>
>What LL said, might be enough (I'm no lawyer, I just have worked for one,<BR>
>and closely follow local legal issues) up here to consitute assault, as a<BR>
>misdemeanor. But, the problem would be convincing a grand jury to indict.<BR>
>And then a Trial jury to convict. (having gone through the domestic<BR>
>violence process as victim last year, I found out that ALL criminal cases,<BR>
>even misdemeanors, go through a grand jury locally, unless a plea is<BR>
>reached. And just getting there can take 2 months.<BR>
><BR>
>BTW, He claims Legate Legion is his real name. I know a rather unreliable<BR>
>source who claims to have met him in Phoenix, at the synagogue, and<BR>
>confirms that.<BR>
><BR>
>ObTrav, canon has only stated a few imperial crimes: Treason, Murder,<BR>
>Hijack, Psionics. Everything else varies by world... or does it?<BR>
><BR>
>William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
>interface!"<BR>
>Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
>533<BR>
>Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
>ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
>IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
>pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:13:32 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
David P. Summers wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Mon, 03 Jan 2000 16:44:04 -0700<BR>
> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
<BR>
> >Well, the current tred is the development of parachutes for the entire<BR>
> >aircraft.<BR>
> <BR>
> So that if the engines fail the entire aircraft floats down???<BR>
<BR>
Exactly. The inventor is quite proud of his invention, and swears that<BR>
if it were widely adopted, it would reduce deaths from small aircraft<BR>
crashes considerably<BR>
 <BR>
> > The problem is that the chutes tend to stress the airframe so<BR>
> >that it no longer passes FAA inspection (on the order of doing a loop in<BR>
> >said Cessna...by FAA rules that airframe is to be broken up as soon as<BR>
> >you land, as it is no longer airworthy.)<BR>
> <BR>
> Isn't asking to save everyone and still have the plane flyable afterward<BR>
> asking a bit much?<BR>
<BR>
Apparently so. This is the main objection to installing them, that using<BR>
the thing renders the $100-200,000 aircraft worthless. The theory seems<BR>
to be that if the chute is available, the pilot will be more likely to<BR>
pop it rather than regain control of the aircraft, something like that.<BR>
<BR>
> >But the point about life jackets not being worn by anyone accounts for<BR>
> >around 70-90% of the drownings that occur due to small craft sinkings<BR>
> >every year. <sigh> Like seatbelts in cars, they work well, but only if<BR>
> >you use them.<BR>
> <BR>
> They do make sense for casual boaters on small craft.  On a liner<BR>
> you are never going to see eveyone walking around in life jackets....<BR>
<BR>
True, and the last liner that was lost with all hands??? The death toll<BR>
from small craft accidents far, far exceeds the death toll of all the<BR>
liners that have sunk to date.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:09:00 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I'll add about Stevie - I've never met him, but he<BR>
> gets the credit for getting em into roleplaying. I'd<BR>
> heard of D&D, but not thought much of what I'd heard,<BR>
> then got into his solo adventure books, and decided,<BR>
> "this is great! and I want more." Him plus Robert E<BR>
> Howard get the credit (or blame, if you know me,<BR>
> hehehe) for me playing and GMing for fourteen years<BR>
> now.<BR>
<BR>
Solo adventure books? Was this the Texas Steve Jackson or the English Steve<BR>
Jackson?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:15:10 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> All of it sounds good to me!!!  Dammit, it's almost bedtime and here I am<BR>
> craving some SERIOUS barbeque!!!!!!!!<BR>
> <BR>
> I know BayCon has Party Floors, I wonder if they have BBQ Floors?  :D<BR>
> <BR>
If you like anime or Hong Kong movies at all, remind me to invite you to<BR>
the BAAS BBQ when summer rolls around.  Mrs. Brown's BBQ is second to<BR>
none.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri =)<BR>
Bay Area Animation Society<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:17:42 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
I have a sign on the wall above my computer at home:<BR>
<BR>
"Computers let you make more mistakes faster than anything but guns and<BR>
tequila."<BR>
<BR>
(I copped it from Risks Digest a long time ago, and have forgotten the<BR>
original author.)<BR>
<BR>
Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Unless he was talking about bottles.<BR>
> <BR>
> <shudder> Please speak not of The Evil Liquid so casually...<BR>
> <BR>
> I (I'm told) drank one bottle to myself on an occasion this summer. It was<BR>
> an experience I'm not that keen to repeat.<BR>
<BR>
Yah, it'll put you off the stuff for a long long time.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:19:08 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
On Tuesday, January 04, 2000 9:28 AM<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>
<BR>
> All kawaii onna have the ability to pull 1000 pound mallets (or<BR>
mullets)<BR>
> from a special anime dimension.  I'm no exception.<BR>
<BR>
Oh my gods!<BR>
You claim kinship with them.<BR>
Gibber.<BR>
<BR>
I am having "Aa! Megami-sama" flashses and backing away slowly.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
Thing under the stairs,<BR>
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
==================================<BR>
Anasthesia: "Do you like cat?" Richard: "Yes, I quite like cats."<BR>
Anasthesia: "Leg or breast?"  -Neverwhere<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 12:25:19 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
This seems similar to flying vs driving.  Aircraft casulaties are<BR>
spectacular but not nearly as common as driving casualties.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
><BR>
>> >But the point about life jackets not being worn by anyone accounts for<BR>
>> >around 70-90% of the drownings that occur due to small craft sinkings<BR>
>> >every year. <sigh> Like seatbelts in cars, they work well, but only if<BR>
>> >you use them.<BR>
>><BR>
>> They do make sense for casual boaters on small craft.  On a liner<BR>
>> you are never going to see eveyone walking around in life jackets....<BR>
><BR>
>True, and the last liner that was lost with all hands??? The death toll<BR>
>from small craft accidents far, far exceeds the death toll of all the<BR>
>liners that have sunk to date.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1663<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1664<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Fashion and Art in the 3I<BR>
Re: Old Craft<BR>
Philadelphia Area Travellers Meeting<BR>
Re: traveller poll!<BR>
Re: traveller poll!<BR>
Re: The Night They Drove Old Terra Down <BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1655<BR>
Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Confusing Quoting<BR>
Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Gearhead Question<BR>
Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
Re: New Group!<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Other-than-keyboard kills<BR>
Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
Splort Report!<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Splort Report!<BR>
RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:22:02 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson puts into the Ether:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
> >>Well, being either kind is technically prosecutable across the bulk of the<BR>
> >>USA, so it's hardly surprising.<BR>
> >>Kenji<BR>
>Actually, there are a lot of states where it's not illegal. Oregon is<BR>
>one of them.<BR>
<BR>
     There still are state laws on the books where forms hetro sex is <BR>
illegal, even between people married to each other.<BR>
<BR>
     This is why it never hurts to check the Lawyer-bot software (with <BR>
updated software for the sub-sector) before leaving the ship.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a<BR>
free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall<BR>
not be infringed.  -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:19:06 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fashion and Art in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
From: David L. Pulver <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The only Imperial KiSS doll is a set of male and female Impeiral<BR>
> uniforms from Star Wars. If you ever track down a Trav one, let me<BR>
>know...<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure that there was a Trav one. I used to have it. If I can get the<BR>
time, I'll slug through the TML archives. One of my earliest contributions<BR>
to the list was Delgado's "Dress Me Up" system, a holographic fashion doll<BR>
set. During the discussion concerning the first draft I posted to the list,<BR>
the subject of KiSS sets came up and someone had pointed out that they had<BR>
made one. I downloaded it and mucked around with it and I guess I must have<BR>
lost it, 'cause I can't find it on my harddrive. This was quite some time<BR>
ago, I still had my 486, so it's possible I didn't transfer it over, or it<BR>
might be sitting on a Zip disk somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:28:34 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Old Craft<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Damn it !<BR>
> >I _worked_ on prop-driven airliners when I was in the RNZAF !<BR>
> >Will you lot stop with this making me feel old, already ?<BR>
> ><BR>
> Relax, Frankie, there are *STILL* Turboprops flying passengers and cargo.<BR>
> <BR>
> Locally, I see C-130's (Turbine driven prop x4) flown by the US Air Force<BR>
> and Coast Guard DAILY, and DhC2 Beavers and DHC  Otters and Twin Otters<BR>
> used for CIVIL/COMMERCIAL AVIATION, with their radials... Wierdest thing<BR>
> flying on earth, IMHO, is a Twin Otter on Floats. As if it weren't ugly<BR>
> enough already.<BR>
<BR>
Yah know. If I ever get really rich (enough for my own plane, that<BR>
is...) I'm not going to mess around with no lightweight learjet, cessna,<BR>
or some such, I want a C-130. <BR>
<BR>
With some _serious_ interior redesign, you could make it into<BR>
essentially a flying vacation home complete with two car garage. It'll<BR>
land just about _any_where, and can be fueled and serviced a heck of a<BR>
lot more places than your namby-pamby finicky ol learjet...hell, it even<BR>
comes with inflight refuelling capability...;-)<BR>
<BR>
And yes one of the cars is going to be an old PowerWagon like Rick<BR>
Simon's on 'Simon and Simon' why do you ask? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:26:20 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Philadelphia Area Travellers Meeting<BR>
<BR>
Mike Peters and I, during the heat of the messaging glut, came up with the<BR>
plan to have a meeting on Saturday, January 22nd, somewhere in the<BR>
Philadelphia area. He left it up to me to come up with a location. Are there<BR>
others in the area who would like to attend? If the answer is yes, what sort<BR>
of place would you like to meet at?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 12:31:43 -0600<BR>
From: Dan.Haag@midata.com<BR>
Subject: Re: traveller poll!<BR>
<BR>
Actually it was the CT players that cheated on the first poll NOT the TNE<BR>
people.  There were more votes for CT than there were people voting.<BR>
<BR>
dan<BR>
<BR>
     >Well, there was still one naughty person trying to stack the deck,<BR>
     >there. The TNE version got a number of bogus entries.  Unfortunately,<BR>
          >where there is a will (to be a jerk) there is a way :-(<BR>
     ><BR>
     >    - -Crusty<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:34:05 -0500<BR>
From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: traveller poll!<BR>
<BR>
At 12:54 PM 1/3/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Well, there was still one naughty person trying to stack the deck, there.<BR>
>The TNE version got a number of bogus entries.  Unfortunately, where there<BR>
>is a will (to be a jerk) there is a way :-(<BR>
<BR>
I feel a bit of guilt as someone who mentioned it was a cookie on 1/3/00,<BR>
but I guess anyone who knows how to break a cookie already knew it was a<BR>
cookie.<BR>
<BR>
A small digression, then the ObTrav:<BR>
<BR>
When I was a younger Boy Scout (of America) we would often camp on the<BR>
property of a local water company, one of the bigwigs at the company<BR>
being a supporter and knowing that we had the attitude that is now<BR>
expressed as "Take nothing but pictures. Leave nothing but footprints."<BR>
gave us leave to use the ordinarily pristine grounds.<BR>
<BR>
One day, when we were packing up, a water company person stopped and asked<BR>
one of the adults if we knew this was (say), United Water property. He said <BR>
yes, we had permission to use it, and the person walked off. I said to one<BR>
of the Scout Leaders (adults) we could have just hopped over that chain<BR>
link fence and no one would have ever known. He replied, "Locks are meant<BR>
for honest people." It took me quite a few years (and some run ins with the<BR>
law) to figure that one out, but I guess this "naughty person" never was<BR>
a boy scout.<BR>
<BR>
Of course the pollit cookie is fence anyone with computer 1 can jump over.<BR>
The fence could easily be double the height with about as little work.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: What youth organizations exist in the 3I that inculcate children<BR>
with values that they find useful as they grow up. While the Boy Scouts of<BR>
America is an unabashedly (and fighting in court about it right now) God<BR>
based private organization, how would a 3I sponsored paramilitary boys<BR>
group be different. Would this be the type of thing to inspire little<BR>
boys to want to be "Starship Troopers"?<BR>
<BR>
I spent most of my time hiking and canoeing in NY with some time spent in<BR>
the Rockies (where the elected leader didn't listen to my orienteering<BR>
skill and got us lost on a mesa where ghosts were rumored to stay). Where<BR>
would 3I Boy Scouts go on worlds of trillions and would there be high<BR>
adventure missions sponsored by megacorps to worlds with tainted (or no)<BR>
atmospheres where the scouts could work on their astrogation merit badge<BR>
while in flight, then spend a week in exotic atmosphere comparing geology<BR>
formations to levels of (X) (and amounts of mailing lists) at certain<BR>
sights.<BR>
<BR>
(To think, I totally forgot about survival skill (book 4). A little<BR>
rusty though, and I'll have to wait for the tech level 10 or 11 (book 8)<BR>
synaptic bypass between T-9 and T-7.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rob Brady 685B57            Computer Geek, 4 terms<BR>
Computer-4, Electronic-1, Streetwise-1<BR>
"Don't even ask about quirks!"     robb at datatone dot com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:53:51 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Night They Drove Old Terra Down <BR>
<BR>
>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
>Subject: The Night They Drove Old Terra Down <BR>
...<BR>
>- -from the liner notes to the single The Night They Drove Old <BR>
>Terra Down Home/Alderan (c) 5540 by Killing Moon Entertainment<BR>
>[approved by SolSec].<BR>
<BR>
  Very nice, Mr. Newman. In addition to the "plus-good" ideological rating, I <BR>
hear they gave you a "get out of precautionary security detention free" card.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:54:13 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1655<BR>
<BR>
Kenji wrote:<BR>
> [snip]<BR>
> I'd actually be very interested in hearing ideas about any of this stuff,<BR>
> since it's outa my league.<BR>
><BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> [snip]<BR>
> ><BR>
> > (Are there any artists or costumers on this list who would be interested<BR>
> > in discussing Vilani, Zhodani, or Far Future Solomani art and clothing and<BR>
> > homecrafts styles with me, either here or on Trav-Culture?<BR>
> [snip]<BR>
<BR>
A few months back, I found a web site that had photos of a lot of <BR>
big-name fashion designer's works. Unfortunately I can't remember<BR>
the URL. The latest seasons' work was pay-to-view, but older designs<BR>
were free for the viewing, so for exactly this purpose, I snarfed a <BR>
bunch of the ones that looked weird and "unearthly" and futuristic <BR>
or any of the above -- there were plenty of those.<BR>
<BR>
Aha! Try http://www.fashionshowroom.com -- it's not the same one I <BR>
was looking at before, but similar.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:57:49 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
I have to agree with various folks that this thread, among others, really<BR>
isn't Trav-topical.  We _could_ be using these electrons to talk about the<BR>
precious bodily fluids of the SolSec Village People, for example.  <BR>
<BR>
However, I'm forwarding this particular post to a couple people, off-list,<BR>
who have seen, from a distance, my offline, offwork, offcampus life; the<BR>
subject line alone will be good for a hoot, as will phrases like having to<BR>
"force" a needle into me.  As Dunsany said, many keyboards will become<BR>
among the completed things.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks, all.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > >>You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
> > >>you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
> > >>Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
> > <BR>
> > You mean someone's gotta get close enough to ManicKenji(TM) to force a<BR>
> > needle in him? Or worse, make him swallow momma's little yellow helper??? ;)<BR>
> > <BR>
> You guys just aren't being creative enough.  I could think of a couple of<BR>
> ways to do that.  =)<BR>
> <BR>
> Kiri<BR>
> <BR>
> ******************************************************************************<BR>
> Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
> tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
> <BR>
> "If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
> If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
> Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
> Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
> Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
> Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:55:40 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I'm starting to remember Chris vowing to keep up some sort of<BR>
> "World Party" for another 2000+ days; at the time, it didn't sound so ><BR>
ominous...<BR>
<BR>
That's because you didn't think that I was serious at the time. Do not try<BR>
to fathom the depths of my most recent derangement. A seven year party.<BR>
<BR>
(For those of you who are Classic Traveller players and who can't understand<BR>
the very concept of a year, 7 years can be rounded up to two terms.)<BR>
<BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> The world?  The _world_?  Screw the world!  The TML is ready for<BR>
>it, and that's all that counts!<BR>
<BR>
The Traveller Mailing List has proven that it is incapable of conducting<BR>
itself in a variety of discussions, from near-c rocks to half dice, from<BR>
lesbian Aslan to improbable, artificially intelligent, computer Virii. To<BR>
even mention the possibility of flamboyantly homosexual K'Kree could be the<BR>
death knell for this "virtual community".<BR>
<BR>
We must tread lightly, Kenji, for every action on the TML will cast a long<BR>
shadow on the rest of the world. For example, Boris Yeltsin was warned that<BR>
a brutal flamewar could erupt on the TML, as the members of the list may or<BR>
may not be Y2K compliant. Just the *suggestion* was enough to make him step<BR>
down.<BR>
<BR>
> > Think before you post Kenji.<BR>
><BR>
> <slap forehed> Doh!  Thanks.  I always forget that part.  People are<BR>
> always having to remind me.<BR>
<BR>
No problem, that's what I'm here for.<BR>
<BR>
> Your cunning, while great, is still strained to contain your<BR>
> degenerate, un-Traveller agenda, comrade!<BR>
<BR>
I'm merely thinking of the world at large, Kenji. A millenium from now, my<BR>
actions will be justified. Maybe, just maybe, one thousand years from now<BR>
the world will be ready for flamboyantly homosexual K'Kree.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:10:35 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
WARNING: THIS IS KIND OF WHINY<BR>
<BR>
It seems that a lot of people's mail programs don't use the convention<BR>
of prepending greater-than signs (>) to quoted text in replies, but <BR>
instead use some sort of horizontal separator. This isn't a big deal<BR>
for single messages, as there's only one separator to look for, but<BR>
when reading TML in digest mode, it's very hard to tell where one <BR>
post ends and another begins while skimming, particularly if more <BR>
than a full screen's worth of material is quoted.<BR>
<BR>
The advantages to >-quoting are many, which is why it's an established<BR>
Internet-and-Usenet standard. Many mail readers can put >-quoted text <BR>
in a different font or style, which further distinguishes the old stuff <BR>
from the new stuff. Nested quotations (successive >>s) are very clearly <BR>
readable.<BR>
<BR>
So, if you don't have a compelling reason to use a convention other <BR>
than >-quoting, please poke around in your Tools->Options or Edit-><BR>
Preferences or whatever/settings menus and see if you can turn on <BR>
the One True Quoting Style. :)<BR>
<BR>
- -R<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 14:07:56 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > The world?  The _world_?  Screw the world!<BR>
><BR>
> Would this leave him enough time for Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
I suspect that is all part of Kenji's nefarious plan.<BR>
<BR>
> I mean their is nothing wrong with being poly if that's<BR>
> what you like but the _whole_world_ seems like a bit<BR>
> much. Think of the disease risks alone.<BR>
<BR>
Fear not, Peter, fear not. My monastic devotion to Traveller requires an<BR>
asceticism of astonishing proportions.<BR>
<BR>
> Truly the nobility of their sacrifice to the Solomani Cause should not ><BR>
be underestimated.<BR>
<BR>
Indeed.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:29:04 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Gearhead Question<BR>
<BR>
>    I saw a reference in an ealier post to different sorts of airlocks, is<BR>
>this a TNE/T4/GURPS thing? Can someone enlighten a poor old MTer about<BR>
these<BR>
>if thats the case?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
There's nothing explicit in TNE about different types. A 'standard airlock'<BR>
is 3 cubic metres, and you should have one of those per hundred tons of<BR>
ship, as a guideline.<BR>
<BR>
I tend to create 'cargo airlocks' and similar by lumping together several of<BR>
these nominal 'standard airlocks'.<BR>
<BR>
For example, one of my assault ship designs is 3200 tons, and should have 32<BR>
standard airlocks. Instead, it has something like 2 storming airlocks (8<BR>
times normal size, open right onto the ground from the cargo bay), 2 cargo<BR>
locks (4 times normal size) and 8 normal access locks. That's only 12<BR>
airlocks, but they take up the same space (and cost) as 32 standard 3m3<BR>
locks.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:08:04 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
<BR>
>causing the problems with the kids (and some adults). I thing CCG's<BR>
severely<BR>
>damaged our hobby and I won't forgive them for it. That being said, even<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Agreed. I play Magic occasionally, but the collectibility really annoys me<BR>
about CCGs too.<BR>
<BR>
When my two younger brothers grew out of it (not really being gamers, but<BR>
got swept up in the craze) I just bought out their collections, plus those<BR>
of a couple of their friends. I don't think I spent more than about 30<BR>
pounds in total, and I've got a shoebox full of cards now.<BR>
<BR>
Whenever I want to play, I haul out the shoebox and whoever wants to play<BR>
picks their colours and builds their decks. The system works pretty well,<BR>
especially since my friends (who are generally fairly eclectic gamers rather<BR>
than Magic-fiends) don't have to buy their own cards to play.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:23:15 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: New Group!<BR>
<BR>
>There already is at least ONE...sort of.  <g> I lurk on several of<BR>
>the lists over there.<BR>
>Eris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Me ditto, so there's at least two.<BR>
<BR>
NB<BR>
+++<BR>
Mmm...an almost totally useless post...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:48:27 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
>> I (I'm told) drank one bottle to myself on an occasion this summer. It<BR>
was<BR>
>> an experience I'm not that keen to repeat.<BR>
>Was it the hallucinations or the jog around the block in your underwear?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Partly the memory loss, partly being dragged out from under a fir tree and<BR>
taken home, but worst of all was that apparently I temporarily gained the<BR>
ability to salsa.<BR>
<BR>
It's one thing to be told the morning afterward that you did something<BR>
stupid, but to be complimented by your friend's mother for your ability at<BR>
something *you can't do* is really scary.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:15:00 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Not (x) again!<BR>
<BR>
>I'll ol' Nick this - he's one of the few people on the TNE list who<BR>
produces designs that might get past the accountants (unlike those of<BR>
this poster :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thankyou. I think.... <grin><BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:17:33 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
>I have a sign on the wall above my computer at home:<BR>
><BR>
>"Computers let you make more mistakes faster than anything but guns and<BR>
>tequila."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Nice. I'm afraid I'll have to steal that.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
+++<BR>
Computer-Geek, Mil-Engineer and Occasional Tequila Drinker<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 14:19:52 -0500<BR>
From: "Lyle Youngblood" <lyley@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Other-than-keyboard kills<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:08:03<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Passengers From Hell<BR>
><BR>
>At 10:45 PM 12/28/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>May ignite itself if exposed to air;<BR>
>>May re-ignite after fire is extinguished;<BR>
>>Violent reaction with water produces flammable gas;<BR>
>>May be poisonous if inhaled;<BR>
><BR>
>Do not taunt aluminum powder (uncoated)<BR>
>- --<BR>
><BR>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
>Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea<BR>
><BR>
    DAMMIT! I was eating lunch, talking on the phone, and reading my<BR>
stored-up backlog of TMLs.  Do you have any IDEA how hard it is to<BR>
clean chili off a phone speaker?<BR>
                                                              Lyle<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:23:27 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I have to agree with various folks that this thread, among others, really<BR>
> isn't Trav-topical.  We _could_ be using these electrons to talk about the<BR>
> precious bodily fluids of the SolSec Village People, for example.  <BR>
> <BR>
> However, I'm forwarding this particular post to a couple people, off-list,<BR>
> who have seen, from a distance, my offline, offwork, offcampus life; the<BR>
> subject line alone will be good for a hoot, as will phrases like having to<BR>
> "force" a needle into me.  As Dunsany said, many keyboards will become<BR>
> among the completed things.<BR>
> <BR>
There are all kinds of force.  =)  But he said "force" and I said<BR>
"creative".  If you're creative, you don't need force.<BR>
<BR>
LOL<BR>
<BR>
Wish I could see the destruction!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:36:14 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Splort Report!<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 01:34 PM,  "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> Dare I say it again?  Sure, why not.  We are all Traveller heretics<BR>
>> in *someone's* TU, so let's value our differences.<BR>
<BR>
>That's absolutely untrue! How dare you say it! MTU is utterly canon!  The<BR>
>fact that I use TNE with D10s for damage, assign initiative levels <BR>
>differently and use rules for FIMs that I wrote myself merely means  that<BR>
>the stuff GDW published is no longer canon ;)<BR>
<BR>
No, liquid expulsion, but how much for a hearty laugh? <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:41:39 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 01:40 PM,  "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>A Mullet for me?  Well now that's quite fascinating as my Boss's last<BR>
>name is "Mullet".<BR>
<BR>
Ha, I'm sure a lot of us have mullet's for bosses, but few can say<BR>
it to their faces.  <g><BR>
<BR>
>Besides, I'm still pouting about the Kenji-Kiri thing.  Kenji gets to<BR>
>have all the fun!  <stamps foot>  :)<BR>
<BR>
Hey, I offered you the mullet...;-p<BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
   Okay, who doesn't know what a mullet is? <g><BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:49:18 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Splort Report!<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On 01/04/00 at 01:34 PM,  "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >> Dare I say it again?  Sure, why not.  We are all Traveller heretics<BR>
> >> in *someone's* TU, so let's value our differences.<BR>
> <BR>
> >That's absolutely untrue! How dare you say it! MTU is utterly canon!  The<BR>
> >fact that I use TNE with D10s for damage, assign initiative levels<BR>
> >differently and use rules for FIMs that I wrote myself merely means  that<BR>
> >the stuff GDW published is no longer canon ;)<BR>
> <BR>
> No, liquid expulsion, but how much for a hearty laugh?<BR>
<BR>
Reposting the rating system devised by Russell Bornschlegel:<BR>
<BR>
Maybe we need a rating system for these Involuntary Humor Response <BR>
reactions.<BR>
<BR>
Event                                Score<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Laugh out loud                       1.0<BR>
Laugh out loud near mundanes         2.0<BR>
Fall off chair                       3.0<BR>
Spill drink                          4.0<BR>
     Hit self                       +2.0<BR>
     Hit keyboard                   +4.0<BR>
     Nasal routing                  +8.0<BR>
Spill food                           4.0<BR>
     Hit self                       +2.0<BR>
     Hit keyboard                   +4.0<BR>
     Nasal routing                 +12.0<BR>
<BR>
- - Russell B<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:45:11 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
On the *real* subject here...<BR>
<BR>
Marc's site says the first books will be shipped by Jan 4.  It's Jan<BR>
4, are books being shipped? <BR>
<BR>
Yes, I've got my order in. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:54:37 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Eris,<BR>
>    Okay, who doesn't know what a mullet is? <g><BR>
<BR>
"Fish heads, fish heads, roly-poly fish heads...."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1664<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1665</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1665<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
LOL<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
RE: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
computer versions of rules<BR>
Re: LOL<BR>
Re: Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
small plane chutes<BR>
Re: computer versions of rules<BR>
Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
Copyright for TNE pictures<BR>
Re: Old Craft<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Overbearing characters (was Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie)<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
Re: "Family"<BR>
Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
Re: LOL<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:52:27 -0800<BR>
From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
OK  I'll bite. What's a 'mullet' ?<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 11:44 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new<BR>
year)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Eris,<BR>
>   Okay, who doesn't know what a mullet is? <g><BR>
>--<BR>
>-----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
>eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
>-----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 12:53:46 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
> Be cool. Wear dark glasses. Fly old air/rafts and feel the atmosphere in your<BR>
> hair. <BR>
<BR>
Amen, bruvver, amen!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 12:04:07 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: LOL<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 01/04/00 at 01:40 PM,  "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >A Mullet for me?  Well now that's quite fascinating as my Boss's last<BR>
> >name is "Mullet".<BR>
> <BR>
> Ha, I'm sure a lot of us have mullet's for bosses, but few can say<BR>
> it to their faces.  <g><BR>
> <BR>
I have six bosses and several of them are mullets.  My favorite one,<BR>
however, is a piranha that nobody likes but me.  This is because I know<BR>
how his mind works.<BR>
<BR>
> >Besides, I'm still pouting about the Kenji-Kiri thing.  Kenji gets to<BR>
> >have all the fun!  <stamps foot>  :)<BR>
> <BR>
> Hey, I offered you the mullet...;-p<BR>
> <BR>
This is getting embarrassing.  I HAVE a boyfriend, scoundrel that he is.<BR>
<BR>
I just like torturing people OK?  Kenji is as evil as I am and deserves<BR>
every bit of it.  You need to be evil if you want me to think of ways to<BR>
inject you with evil recreational chemicals with your full and informed<BR>
consent, or whip you until you are willing to support me in a bid to take<BR>
over the 3I in my dastardly plots, all of which involve sex, drugs and<BR>
rock and roll in some capacity.  Go start an evil petting zoo or<BR>
something.<BR>
<BR>
I don't torture nice guys.  Unless they have really amazing "mojo".  Or a<BR>
lightsaber or something.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 15:04:01 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
Marc sent an update out but did not post it to his site, for some reason.<BR>
The first book will ship at the end of this month.<BR>
<BR>
Now, I'm sure that the opportunist here will beat him up about missed<BR>
production dates and that someone will be quick to respond about the GT<BR>
Starports book and another smart-alec will compare them both with Bill Gates<BR>
or Cargonaut Press, yada, yada, yada, ad nauseum.  But why bother?<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
> Marc's site says the first books will be shipped by Jan 4.  It's Jan<BR>
> 4, are books being shipped?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 14:05:05 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: RE: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 01:46 PM,  Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca> said:<BR>
<BR>
>	Spacers usually wear snug clothing and short hair, but tastes<BR>
>	vary widely.  <BR>
<BR>
IMTU, Belters, both sexes, go in for shaved heads and short mohawks.<BR>
They tend to wear their "skintights" (the undergarment to their vacc<BR>
suits) at all times.  You can tell a newbie when you shake hands<BR>
because she won't have the "rings" around her wrists (stretch marks<BR>
and broken veins).<BR>
<BR>
Indies, spacers not "owned" by the Guild or the big lines, go for<BR>
colorful head bandanas and bright loose fitting, tight cuffed<BR>
clothes when they are "doing the troll" (partying in Startown), but<BR>
tend to wear dull jumpsuits and trouser/jacket combos when they are<BR>
on duty.  Many of them also wear their skintights at all times.<BR>
Guilders and Linemen tend toward spit and polish uniforms.<BR>
<BR>
Footwear for all the spacer/belter groups is divided between heavy<BR>
boots and "ship boots."  Ship boots are light, with flexible uppers<BR>
that form an air-tight with the skintights, and with with heavy<BR>
soles.  The soles of both types of boot normally have magnetic<BR>
inserts into a triangle tread, so the wearer can attach herself to a<BR>
deck securely even when the grav goes off.  The triangles fit down<BR>
into the metal catwalks common in Engineering spaces making the<BR>
wearer doublely secured when doing zg work.<BR>
<BR>
But, of course, those are only norms and not everyone (or every<BR>
system) follows the norms.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 15:08:22 EST<BR>
From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>
Subject: computer versions of rules<BR>
<BR>
You know what would be great?<BR>
All the CT books in hypertext........<BR>
since there is some money to be made on printing the old books, though, that <BR>
will remain a dream.<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/4/00 1:23:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Well, I have all the MT rules in Word format. I created them from the<BR>
 printed manuals, and added most of the errata fixes to them.<BR>
 <BR>
 A while back I got permission from Marc Miller to distribute ten copies<BR>
 of them to members of this list (and one copy to him). >><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:13:44 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: LOL<BR>
<BR>
>I don't torture nice guys.  Unless they have really amazing "mojo".  Or a<BR>
>lightsaber or something.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I shall content myself with a mere raised <eyebrow> at the 'or something'.<BR>
<BR>
Yours, grinning,<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 12:16:37 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> as will phrases like having to "force" a needle into me. <BR>
<BR>
2.0 for Kenji, but it was very very nearly a 12+ as I had a mouthful<BR>
of coffee at the time that tried to go nasal.<BR>
<BR>
- -RB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 15:17:47 EST<BR>
From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>
Subject: small plane chutes<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/4/00 1:23:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Apparently so. This is the main objection to installing them, that using<BR>
 the thing renders the $100-200,000 aircraft worthless. The theory seems<BR>
 to be that if the chute is available, the pilot will be more likely to<BR>
 pop it rather than regain control of the aircraft, something like that.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
The main objection being that you lose a LOT of your useful load. The two <BR>
seater either becomes a one seater [load wise] or you gas up with one hell of <BR>
a lot less gas [at 6 pounds per gallon].<BR>
The four seaters, many of which are already three seaters if you have full <BR>
tanks, lose a person and/or cargo as well, but I understand there was some <BR>
problems with the chute system for them anyway.<BR>
<BR>
Plus, if the electrical system still works any halfway good non-drunk pilot, <BR>
who was more than four or five hundred feet up when the engine quit, should <BR>
be able to dump that flaps at the end, flare, and touch down at 40 mph or <BR>
less. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 15:19:26 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: computer versions of rules<BR>
<BR>
Anyone want to clue him in about the Traveller CD project?  Someone<BR>
involved, perhaps?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <GaryBartz@aol.com><BR>
> You know what would be great?<BR>
> All the CT books in hypertext........<BR>
> since there is some money to be made on printing the old books, though,<BR>
that<BR>
> will remain a dream.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:51:13 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
<BR>
Don't forget about Tipper Gore's book, which states:<BR>
<BR>
p. 118:<BR>
<BR>
      "But like a cancer, satanism has come a long way since then, as heavy <BR>
metal groups capitalized on a growing fascination with the occult. From THE <BR>
EXORCIST to the Dungeons and Dragons fantasy role-playing game, Americans <BR>
chased one occult fad after another. The popular Dungeons and Dragons game <BR>
has sold eight million sets. The game is based on occultic plots, images, <BR>
and characters which players "become" as they play the game.<BR>
      According to Mrs. Pat Pulling, founder of the organization Bothered <BR>
About Dungeons and Dragons, the game has been linked to nearly fifty <BR>
teenage suicides and homicides. Pulling's own son killed himself in 1982 <BR>
after becoming deeply involved in the game through his school's gifted <BR>
students program. A fellow-player threatened him with a "death curse," and <BR>
he killed himself in response."<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a<BR>
free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall<BR>
not be infringed.  -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:31:25 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Copyright for TNE pictures<BR>
<BR>
I'm creating design and deckplans for the ship pictured on page 218 of the<BR>
TNE rulebook (with the artist's signature Allen Nunis), and I'd like to get<BR>
permission to post the picture to the web along with the stats and deckplan,<BR>
but I don't know who to get permission from.<BR>
<BR>
Can anybody help me out here?<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 14:35:43 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Old Craft<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 02:33 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Yah know. If I ever get really rich (enough for my own plane, that is...)<BR>
>I'm not going to mess around with no lightweight learjet, cessna, or some<BR>
>such, I want a C-130. <BR>
<BR>
I had a DC-3 in mind, but yeah, a C-130 would do even better.<BR>
<BR>
>With some _serious_ interior redesign, you could make it into essentially<BR>
>a flying vacation home complete with two car garage. It'll land just<BR>
>about _any_where, and can be fueled and serviced a heck of a lot more<BR>
>places than your namby-pamby finicky ol learjet...hell, it even comes<BR>
>with inflight refuelling capability...;-)<BR>
<BR>
<smile> Make it a C-5 Galaxy and you can have a travelling Traveller convention. <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:16:27 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Preston <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
It goes as follows:<BR>
<BR>
"You have the right to remain silent, but if you fail to mention anything that<BR>
may later be used in your defense the court may draw inferences from your<BR>
failing to do so."<BR>
<BR>
Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >You should hear the British one - you have effectively no right to<BR>
> >remain silent, and most people don't understand the wording.<BR>
><BR>
> How does it go exactly? I think since the Criminal Justice Act the main<BR>
> thrust is that you can refuse to answer questions, but that may weaken your<BR>
> case if you later produce evidence linked to those questions.<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, that seems a little draconian - perhaps I'm remembering it wrong.<BR>
> Can anybody help us out here?<BR>
><BR>
> Nick<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Mark A Preston BSc, FIAP<BR>
Business Manager, MicroFix Systems Solutions<BR>
mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:24:17 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Preston <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Why I support the combined list...<BR>
<BR>
I agree. While we are all together, we represent somewhere that can be referred<BR>
to for *all* Traveller players. If we split, we are less usefull to *anyone*.<BR>
<BR>
"Swordy (Colin Michael)" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm somewhat troubled by the rumblings surrounding a split of the TML.  The<BR>
> Traveller community is relatively small as fan bases go.  This forum has<BR>
> about a hundred voices at any one time.  That number is large enough to get<BR>
> a great mix of ideas and opinions, yet not unruly.  Anything smaller tends<BR>
> to limit the gene / idea pool.  You also get an Us vs. Them thing going with<BR>
> two competing lists, which is counter-productive.  Certainly these flame<BR>
> wars are not terribly helpful, but I feel they are a necessary evil that you<BR>
> accept when you bring so many great thinkers together.  The benefits of<BR>
> having this combined forum are legion (pardon the pun).  For one, we have<BR>
> the power to sway the publishers.  That power is damaged by personal attacks<BR>
> on people like Loren, but you have to concede that he follows this list<BR>
> precisely because it is a good gauge of the state of the game.  We are also<BR>
> a good pool of talent from which Loren and Marc and others can draw.  In the<BR>
> past year or so I have seen four or more messages from Loren seeking someone<BR>
> to make a submission of some sort on short notice.  I won't belabor the<BR>
> point.  I'll close by saying that the smaller "subcommittee" forums that<BR>
> come and go serve a purpose, too.  I don't mind seeing several going at a<BR>
> time.  They are also a sign of a healthy Traveller community :-)  But the<BR>
> combined clout that this list currently enjoys is not something we should<BR>
> consider throwing away.<BR>
><BR>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
> Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
> www.downport.com<BR>
> The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Mark A Preston BSc, FIAP<BR>
Business Manager, MicroFix Systems Solutions<BR>
mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 14:44:07 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 02:43 PM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>    Okay, who doesn't know what a mullet is? <g><BR>
<BR>
>"Fish heads, fish heads, roly-poly fish heads...."<BR>
<BR>
It's Doctor D!!!! <g> A real blast from the past.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 14:49:28 -0600 ()<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Overbearing characters (was Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie)<BR>
<BR>
><< Of course, if you listen to S. John Ross over on Usenet, Gene Seabolt is<BR>
> either the Anti-Christ, or his younger brother. >><BR>
><BR>
>Why on earth for? He's a rarity; a real 3 piece suit bean counter who is also<BR>
>a gamer. He's perfect for Steve...<BR>
<BR>
He is also slightly ... overbearing. At least in my limited experience.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Describe the most overbearing characters you have ever inflicted on<BR>
your Traveller characters.<BR>
<BR>
Mine was Lucan, in my long ago Star Wars: Shattered Imperium campaign.<BR>
Since the players were movers and shakers in the heroic space opera sense,<BR>
they had ample opportunity to mix it up with the Black Emperor and his evil<BR>
magic-using^h^h^h psionic cronies. He was a calm and cool megalomaniac --<BR>
at least until something didn't go his way and he became a screaming and<BR>
slavering megalomaniac.<BR>
<BR>
He did follow the facist-conscious code in Douglas' old tagline, though:<BR>
The uniforms of he and his men looked *really* cool. :-)<BR>
<BR>
(Note: I am not insinuating that Gene Seabolt is anything like Crazy Lucan)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 14:56:00 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 02:51 PM,  "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca> said:<BR>
<BR>
>OK  I'll bite. What's a 'mullet' ?<BR>
<BR>
There something fishy about that question! <g><BR>
<BR>
A mullet is a fish, sometimes called a Lisa.  Depending on where you<BR>
live, it could be considered good eating or best used as bait.<BR>
Personally, I think there is little better than a meal of smoked<BR>
mullet, hushpuppies and coleslaw. <BR>
<BR>
The image I was shooting for, however, was Kiri bashing Kenji over<BR>
the head with a large fish...cartoon style.<BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
    we also eat croakers!<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 14:57:24 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 02:56 PM,  "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Marc sent an update out but did not post it to his site, for some reason.<BR>
>The first book will ship at the end of this month.<BR>
<BR>
I haven't seen that update. Bummer about the delay, but stuff happens.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:13:49 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
<BR>
From: <Sethkimmel@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I thing CCG's severely damaged our hobby and I won't forgive them > for<BR>
it.<BR>
<BR>
No need to look outside the hobby to see where the damage came from. The RPG<BR>
industry has done far more damage to itself then CCGs (or computer games,<BR>
for that matter) could ever do.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:02:15 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "Family"<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:16:04 -0500 (EST), "Douglas E. Berry"<BR>
<gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>At 02:05 PM 1/2/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>>As a member of the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community,<BR>
<BR>
>>I'd no idea that you were Family.  =)<BR>
<BR>
>Extremely twisted.  I'm mostly straight, but wander off sometimes.<BR>
<BR>
>A few years back Kirsten bought me a "Nobody Knows I'm a Lesbian" shirt.<BR>
>You should see the looks I get at Pride with that one on.<BR>
<BR>
Was it you or Kenji that came up with that classic line a couple<BR>
of years back? - "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body!"<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:02:17 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:05:49 -0500 (EST), "Chris Seamans"<BR>
<semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>From: Postmark Design Bureau <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
<BR>
>> Still - how long before they build a wall around New York and throw<BR>
>>all the criminals inside?<BR>
<BR>
>Get with the *times* Phil! That was back in 1988. Jeff Zeitlin has been the<BR>
>Duke of New York ever since 1997.<BR>
<BR>
>Jeff's the Duke of New York! He's "A #1"!<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but _I_ am not the Mover and<BR>
Shaker here in the Rotten Apple, where we do _not_ build walls<BR>
around the duchy, nor do we keep prisoners here; rather, the<BR>
honor of being recognized as the M&S has to go to my seneschal,<BR>
Hizzoner Rudolph Giuliani, Marquis of the Theatre, Count of Ten,<BR>
and Baron of Kindness.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:11:38 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
Raises hand.  I never heard of a mullet before.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Black ICE" <wombat@premier.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 2:54 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new<BR>
year)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> <<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Eris,<BR>
> >    Okay, who doesn't know what a mullet is? <g><BR>
><BR>
> "Fish heads, fish heads, roly-poly fish heads...."<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
> "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
> Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:15:34 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
<BR>
|'ve been playing since 1978.  Why haven't I become a satan-worshipper or<BR>
have killed myself yet?<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Mark Urbin" <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 9:51 AM<BR>
Subject: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Don't forget about Tipper Gore's book, which states:<BR>
><BR>
> p. 118:<BR>
><BR>
>       "But like a cancer, satanism has come a long way since then, as<BR>
heavy<BR>
> metal groups capitalized on a growing fascination with the occult. From<BR>
THE<BR>
> EXORCIST to the Dungeons and Dragons fantasy role-playing game, Americans<BR>
> chased one occult fad after another. The popular Dungeons and Dragons game<BR>
> has sold eight million sets. The game is based on occultic plots, images,<BR>
> and characters which players "become" as they play the game.<BR>
>       According to Mrs. Pat Pulling, founder of the organization Bothered<BR>
> About Dungeons and Dragons, the game has been linked to nearly fifty<BR>
> teenage suicides and homicides. Pulling's own son killed himself in 1982<BR>
> after becoming deeply involved in the game through his school's gifted<BR>
> students program. A fellow-player threatened him with a "death curse," and<BR>
> he killed himself in response."<BR>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- -<BR>
> urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
> A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a<BR>
> free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall<BR>
> not be infringed.  -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- -<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:21:23 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: LOL<BR>
<BR>
Ha!  Kiri gets a 3.0!  :)  Kiri embarrassed?  I dinnae think twas possible!<BR>
As for running the Third Imperium, hey, I'm all for that.  Just gimme a<BR>
handful of pirates and some near-C rocks and....BTW what is an amazing Mojo?<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 3:04 PM<BR>
Subject: LOL<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > On 01/04/00 at 01:40 PM,  "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> said:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >A Mullet for me?  Well now that's quite fascinating as my Boss's last<BR>
> > >name is "Mullet".<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Ha, I'm sure a lot of us have mullet's for bosses, but few can say<BR>
> > it to their faces.  <g><BR>
> ><BR>
> I have six bosses and several of them are mullets.  My favorite one,<BR>
> however, is a piranha that nobody likes but me.  This is because I know<BR>
> how his mind works.<BR>
><BR>
> > >Besides, I'm still pouting about the Kenji-Kiri thing.  Kenji gets to<BR>
> > >have all the fun!  <stamps foot>  :)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Hey, I offered you the mullet...;-p<BR>
> ><BR>
> This is getting embarrassing.  I HAVE a boyfriend, scoundrel that he is.<BR>
><BR>
> I just like torturing people OK?  Kenji is as evil as I am and deserves<BR>
> every bit of it.  You need to be evil if you want me to think of ways to<BR>
> inject you with evil recreational chemicals with your full and informed<BR>
> consent, or whip you until you are willing to support me in a bid to take<BR>
> over the 3I in my dastardly plots, all of which involve sex, drugs and<BR>
> rock and roll in some capacity.  Go start an evil petting zoo or<BR>
> something.<BR>
><BR>
> I don't torture nice guys.  Unless they have really amazing "mojo".  Or a<BR>
> lightsaber or something.<BR>
><BR>
> I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way.<BR>
><BR>
> Kiri  =)<BR>
><BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
**<BR>
> Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
> tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
><BR>
> "If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
> If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
> Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
> Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
> Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
> Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1665<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1666</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1666<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
3I Military?<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
Re: Fashion and Art in the 3I<BR>
New use for LEGO<BR>
Re: LOL<BR>
RE: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy ne w year)<BR>
Re: "Family"<BR>
Re: Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
RE: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
RE: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
Re: New use for LEGO<BR>
Re: LOL<BR>
Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
Re: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
Hyphen for Emperor!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:15:15 -0600 <BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: 3I Military?<BR>
<BR>
I just got this from another list.  Does anyone else think that the 3I<BR>
military might actually think like this?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Steven J. Greenwald [mailto:sjg6@gate.net]<BR>
> Sent: Tuesday, 04 January 2000 16:04<BR>
> To: AR-15 Miscellaneous List<BR>
> Subject: [MISC-L] Insurance<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Airman Jones was assigned to the induction center, where he <BR>
> advised new<BR>
> recruits about their government benefits, especially their GI <BR>
> insurance.<BR>
> It wasn't long before Captain Smith noticed that Airman Jones <BR>
> had almost<BR>
> a 100% record for insurance sales, which had never happened before.<BR>
> Rather than ask about this, the Captain stood in the back of the room<BR>
> and listened to Jones's sales pitch.<BR>
> <BR>
> Jones explained the basics of the GI Insurance to the new <BR>
> recruits, and<BR>
> then said: "If you have GI Insurance and go into battle and <BR>
> are killed,<BR>
> the government has to pay $200,000 to your beneficiaries.  If <BR>
> you don't<BR>
> have GI insurance, and you go into battle and get killed, the <BR>
> government<BR>
> only has to pay a maximum of $6000."<BR>
> <BR>
> "Now," he concluded, "which bunch do you think they are going to send<BR>
> into battle first?"<BR>
> <BR>
> =================================================<BR>
> To unsubscribe send mail to majordomo@ar15.com<BR>
> with UNSUBSCRIBE misc-l in the body.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 -- vargr1                                              UPP-8D9B85 --<BR>
The three principle virtues of a good programmer   | dmoody@bridge-dot-com<BR>
 are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris.             | vargr1@jcn1-dot-com<BR>
             ** Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina. **           <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:14:45 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
From: Jory Earl <j-man@iname.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Raises hand.  I never heard of a mullet before.<BR>
<BR>
...and in the circle I'm in "mullet" is slang, usually used in a derogatory<BR>
fashion, for a specific hairstyle.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:17:50 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
<BR>
At 05:15 PM 1/4/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>|'ve been playing since 1978.  Why haven't I become a satan-worshipper or<BR>
>have killed myself yet?<BR>
>___________________________________________________________<BR>
> J-Man<BR>
<BR>
        Just slow to catch on?  <g,d,r><BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 14:17:46 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Fashion and Art in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
I figured what ever it is, it needs to be easily describable to<BR>
the players.  So I assume fashion is pretty much as shown in Babylon<BR>
5 (practicle and reasonable with variations to make it different<BR>
than contemporary) for most and the nobility go in for more<BR>
elaborate (based on the pictures of nobles I've seen).  Uniforms,<BR>
flowing dresses, etc.<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 14:18:59 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: New use for LEGO<BR>
<BR>
I've discovered a great new use for the LEGO DUPLO Play Wall along with the<BR>
LEGO DUPLO Letters and Numbers. The intended use is to help your kids learn<BR>
their letters and numbers, but if you're a CT fan (Fans of the other<BR>
versions  probably don't know their letters and numbers either. Probably<BR>
because they failed one of those ridiculous "task rolls.") you can combine<BR>
creating UWPs. UPPs, etc, with playing with your kids.<BR>
<BR>
On a more serious note, however, those coming to the January FFW/BL meeting<BR>
at Kristen's will get a chance to build and use alternatives to the usual<BR>
miniatures for use in the BL game, courtesy of my vacation visit to LEGOLAND<BR>
California.<BR>
<BR>
Luther<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 14:24:37 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: LOL<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ha!  Kiri gets a 3.0!  :)  Kiri embarrassed?  I dinnae think twas possible!<BR>
> As for running the Third Imperium, hey, I'm all for that.  Just gimme a<BR>
> handful of pirates and some near-C rocks and....BTW what is an amazing Mojo?<BR>
> <BR>
My assistant Pussy G'Lorr will explain this to you after she's finished<BR>
purchasing a new set of extremely comfortable ship boots.  (I've tried to<BR>
explain to her that fashion is very important for would be dictators.)<BR>
<BR>
"Are you pondering the same thing I'm pondering, Pussy-chan?"<BR>
<BR>
"Hai, Kiri-ohimesama, but I don't think you can get Strephon to wear that<BR>
with pasties!"<BR>
<BR>
(Actually, it was an Austin Powers joke.)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
"What are we going to do today, Kiri-ohimesama?"<BR>
<BR>
"The same thing we do every day, Pussy-chan:  TRY TO TAKE OVER THE 3I!"<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:28:38 -0600 <BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy ne w year)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Chris Seamans [mailto:semo@pil.net]<BR>
> <BR>
> From: Jory Earl <j-man@iname.com><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > Raises hand.  I never heard of a mullet before.<BR>
> <BR>
> ...and in the circle I'm in "mullet" is slang, usually used <BR>
> in a derogatory<BR>
> fashion, for a specific hairstyle.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Hmm...<BR>
<BR>
My arms in the SCA has "...three mullets of eight points, or".<BR>
<BR>
Makes for a very different device!<BR>
<BR>
 -- vargr1                                              UPP-8D9B85 --<BR>
The three principle virtues of a good programmer   | dmoody@bridge-dot-com<BR>
 are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris.             | vargr1@jcn1-dot-com<BR>
             ** Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina. **           <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:40:22 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: "Family"<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:16:04 -0500 (EST), "Douglas E. Berry"<BR>
> <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
> >A few years back Kirsten bought me a "Nobody Knows I'm a Lesbian" shirt.<BR>
> >You should see the looks I get at Pride with that one on.<BR>
> <BR>
> Was it you or Kenji that came up with that classic line a couple<BR>
> of years back? - "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body!"<BR>
<BR>
It _wouldn't_ have been me.  I'm the reactionary lesbian feminist<BR>
throwback trapped in the _lifestyle_ of a debonair & dashing drag king.<BR>
As evidence of this, take the fact that I think Doug's T-shirt as worn by<BR>
him is totally un-funny and sent my blood pressure way up.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:43:03 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
This reminds me, I've been meaning to ask -- purely out of abstract<BR>
curiosity, of course -- how many points do you get for making somebody<BR>
expel a keyboard through their nose?  (Through laughter, I mean.)<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> > as will phrases like having to "force" a needle into me. <BR>
> <BR>
> 2.0 for Kenji, but it was very very nearly a 12+ as I had a mouthful<BR>
> of coffee at the time that tried to go nasal.<BR>
> <BR>
> -RB<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 14:45:55 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Tue, 04 Jan 2000 14:05:05 -0600<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
<BR>
>>	Spacers usually wear snug clothing and short hair, but tastes<BR>
>>	vary widely.<BR>
<BR>
>IMTU, Belters, both sexes, go in for shaved heads and short mohawks.<BR>
>They tend to wear their "skintights" (the undergarment to their vacc<BR>
>suits) at all times.<BR>
<BR>
Assuming this is becuase belters spend time in zero G (which most<BR>
spacer, in fact, would seldom do), long hair isn't really much of<BR>
a problem im zero G.  A number of female astronauts have long hair....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:44:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
On 4 Jan 00, at 14:56, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 01/04/00 at 02:51 PM,  "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >OK  I'll bite. What's a 'mullet' ?<BR>
> <BR>
> There something fishy about that question! <g><BR>
> <BR>
> A mullet is a fish, sometimes called a Lisa.  Depending on where you<BR>
> live, it could be considered good eating or best used as bait.<BR>
> Personally, I think there is little better than a meal of smoked<BR>
> mullet, hushpuppies and coleslaw. <BR>
> <BR>
> The image I was shooting for, however, was Kiri bashing Kenji over<BR>
> the head with a large fish...cartoon style.<BR>
<BR>
Thus turning Kenji into a stunned mullet?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:44:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
<BR>
On 4 Jan 00, at 16:13, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> From: <Sethkimmel@aol.com><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > I thing CCG's severely damaged our hobby and I won't forgive them > for<BR>
> it.<BR>
> <BR>
> No need to look outside the hobby to see where the damage came from. The<BR>
> RPG industry has done far more damage to itself then CCGs (or computer<BR>
> games, for that matter) could ever do.<BR>
<BR>
I dunno.<BR>
<BR>
In the town I used to live in we had two stores that stocked rpgs. They <BR>
weren't wonderful ,but at least they tried (NZ has always had incedibly <BR>
bad rpg distrbutors). When magic came along one store ended up getting <BR>
out of rpgs because they couldn't get them from the distributos, who <BR>
had decided that CCGs made them more money for less bother. The other, <BR>
along with many stores in different towns, reduced its rpg shelf space <BR>
and stock in favour of CCGs, and when the distributors started to not <BR>
bother with rpgs he didn't chase them and put any pressure on them. Not <BR>
unsurprisingly this lack of rpgs meant that people like myself stopped <BR>
buying from his store (I told him why, but he didn't take a lot of <BR>
notice). Worse, when we recruited new players, and they asked where <BR>
they could buy their own copies we were forced to admit that they <BR>
couldn't, unless they had internet access and a credit card. Needless <BR>
to say many didn't stay in the hobby.<BR>
<BR>
This is why I feel that CCGs were the biggest source of damage to rpgs <BR>
in the last decade.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:44:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
<BR>
On 4 Jan 00, at 19:08, Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >causing the problems with the kids (and some adults). I thing CCG's<BR>
> severely<BR>
> >damaged our hobby and I won't forgive them for it. That being said, even<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Agreed. I play Magic occasionally, but the collectibility really annoys me<BR>
> about CCGs too.<BR>
> <BR>
> When my two younger brothers grew out of it (not really being gamers, but<BR>
> got swept up in the craze) I just bought out their collections, plus those<BR>
> of a couple of their friends. I don't think I spent more than about 30<BR>
> pounds in total, and I've got a shoebox full of cards now.<BR>
> <BR>
> Whenever I want to play, I haul out the shoebox and whoever wants to play<BR>
> picks their colours and builds their decks. The system works pretty well,<BR>
> especially since my friends (who are generally fairly eclectic gamers<BR>
> rather than Magic-fiends) don't have to buy their own cards to play.<BR>
<BR>
Sounds like a friend's method - he made up a huge deck and it gets <BR>
plonked down in the middle and we play a multiplayer game all using the <BR>
same deck.<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:47:12 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
It's a delight to see all the old pervs come crawling out of the network,<BR>
all their inappropriate talents honed and glittering.  <BR>
<BR>
In order to combine songs, flammable topics, and "lifestyles", shall we<BR>
have an enlightened and enlightening discussion about pirates, too,<BR>
perhaps?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote<BR>
> <BR>
> > Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> > > I'm not sure that I'd want to see the Village Sentients, myself. The list<BR>
> > > has proven that it can't handle lesbian Aslan, do you really think that the<BR>
> > > world is ready for flamboyantly homosexual K'Kree? <BR>
> > <BR>
> > The world?  The _world_?  Screw the world! <BR>
> <BR>
> Would this leave him enough time for Traveller?<BR>
> <BR>
> I mean their is nothing wrong with being poly if that's<BR>
> what you like but the _whole_world_ seems like a bit<BR>
> much. Think of the disease risks alone.<BR>
> <BR>
> > The TML is ready for it, and that's all that counts!<BR>
> <BR>
> > > This leaves us with the cop. As we all know, the Imperium's hands off<BR>
> > > approach to its member worlds means that individual worlds are left to<BR>
> > > handle their affairs however they wish. At best, any interstellar police<BR>
> > > force that would exist would work behind the scenes and probably wouldn't<BR>
> > > have the proper resonance with Imperial citizens that the position of<BR>
> > > Village Person would require. The only logical choice, therefore, would be<BR>
> > > the noble.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Your cunning, while great, is still strained to contain your degenerate,<BR>
> > un-Traveller agenda, comrade!<BR>
> <BR>
> Obviously the Village People are a Solomani group.<BR>
> The Cop is a member of SolSec, those beloved guardians<BR>
> of the purity and security of our beloved Confederation. <BR>
> <BR>
> Obviously the group of 100% pure Solomani who comprise the <BR>
> Village People have sworn never to be intimate with women,<BR>
> for fear that these women might be less than 100% pure <BR>
> Solomani. It simply would not do to allow the birth of any<BR>
> more part Solomani, part lesser race, Mongrel-Men. The<BR>
> loyal and patriotic members of this 100% Solomani group<BR>
> are thus, reluctantly, forced to confine their<BR>
> recreational activities to same sex activities to ensure<BR>
> the purity of the Master Race. Truly the nobility of their <BR>
> sacrifice to the Solomani Cause should not be underestimated.<BR>
> <BR>
> - Confederation UnderSecretary of Cultural Affairs Newman<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:34:54 +0000<BR>
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
In message <00103.215755.9w8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>, Leonard<BR>
Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes<BR>
><BR>
>So what gets mapped is the relative abundance of whichever element they<BR>
>have the MRI unit "tuned" to. Dark areas are low in that isotope,<BR>
>bright areas are high in it.<BR>
<BR>
Isn't the output derived from the spin relaxation time, and so depends<BR>
on the environment of the nuclei and not the abundance?  Also, blood<BR>
appears black because the alligned nuclei flow out of the region being<BR>
examined in the time between spin allignment and measurement.<BR>
- -- <BR>
Martin Hardgrave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 16:59:19 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: RE: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 04:50 PM,  "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> said:<BR>
<BR>
>eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
<BR>
>>IMTU, Belters, both sexes, go in for shaved heads and short mohawks.<BR>
>>They tend to wear their "skintights" (the undergarment to their vacc<BR>
>>suits) at all times.<BR>
<BR>
>Assuming this is becuase belters spend time in zero G (which most spacer,<BR>
>in fact, would seldom do), long hair isn't really much of a problem im<BR>
>zero G.  A number of female astronauts have long hair....<BR>
<BR>
David, there's no accounting fashion.  <g> For all *I* know, not<BR>
being a belter, <g> it might have nothing to do with practicality<BR>
and just be a fashion.  <BR>
<BR>
OTOH, if might have something to do with the skintight's cowl that<BR>
pulls up over the top of the wearer's head when they wear their vacc<BR>
suits.  Indies and Liners tend to have short hair, but don't insist<BR>
on the skinned look.<BR>
<BR>
Out of game:  No, it doesn't have a lot to do with zg.  It's mostly<BR>
just fashion...not that there's anything wrong with that.  I haven't<BR>
mentioned MTU's Muan Gwi stange perchant for cod pieces or the fad<BR>
among Segui vargr youth of "buzzing" their fur to get "the monk<BR>
look."<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:03:21 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
<BR>
>|'ve been playing since 1978.  Why haven't I become a satan-worshipper or<BR>
>have killed myself yet?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Clearly you're dysfuntional, and it's people like you who give the hobby a<BR>
bad name.<BR>
<BR>
NB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:14:46 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
<BR>
Sigh.  I suppose you are right.  But being decadent is so much fun!<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 6:03 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >|'ve been playing since 1978.  Why haven't I become a satan-worshipper or<BR>
> >have killed myself yet?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Clearly you're dysfuntional, and it's people like you who give the hobby a<BR>
> bad name.<BR>
><BR>
> NB<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:07:44 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
<BR>
"Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> types under the influence of RPGs:<BR>
>|'ve been playing since 1978.  Why haven't I become a satan-worshipper or<BR>
>have killed myself yet?<BR>
<BR>
[snip of Tipper quote]<BR>
<BR>
Because the Tippster was about on target with that statement as her husband <BR>
has been with:<BR>
"I uncovered Love Canal."<BR>
"I invented the Internet."<BR>
"Tip and I were the basis for Love Story."<BR>
<BR>
and a bunch more I'm too lazy to type in....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/polyticks/algore-noway.shtml/<BR>
"In 1991, [Vice President] Gore cited Bush's China policy as a reason he<BR>
should be defeated for reelection, charging Bush sent his emissaries to<BR>
toast the butchers of Tiananmen Square.'"<BR>
Deborah Orin in the New York Post, March 26, 1997, the day after Gore<BR>
drank champagne with Chinese Premier Li Peng, who helped plan the<BR>
Tiananmen massacre<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:14:18 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/2000 18:07, Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> [snip of Tipper quote]<BR>
> <BR>
> Because the Tippster was about on target with that statement as her husband<BR>
> has been with:<BR>
> "I uncovered Love Canal."<BR>
> "I invented the Internet."<BR>
> "Tip and I were the basis for Love Story."<BR>
> <BR>
> and a bunch more I'm too lazy to type in....<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm....Is THAT why they also call her Tip Her Gore???????? :) :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:20:54 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: New use for LEGO<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I've discovered a great new use for the LEGO DUPLO Play Wall along with the<BR>
> LEGO DUPLO Letters and Numbers. The intended use is to help your kids learn<BR>
> their letters and numbers, but if you're a CT fan (Fans of the other<BR>
> versions  probably don't know their letters and numbers either. Probably<BR>
> because they failed one of those ridiculous "task rolls.") you can combine<BR>
> creating UWPs. UPPs, etc, with playing with your kids.<BR>
> <BR>
Hey, as a T4 player, I resent that.  After all, do you have _any idea_<BR>
how difficult to learn the alphabet using T4 as published, due to all<BR>
the errata?  I had to go to three different Web sites featuring T4<BR>
eroti^h^h^hrata, just to track down the letters f, o, and z.  Basic math<BR>
is a pain under T4, too.  I mean, just what the heck is <-> supposed to<BR>
mean?  I finally found out, but that meant more errata....<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:43:01 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: John Osborne <osborne6@wt.net><BR>
Subject: Re: LOL<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:21:23 -0500<BR>
> From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: LOL<BR>
> <BR>
> Ha!  Kiri gets a 3.0!  :)  Kiri embarrassed?  I dinnae think twas possible!<BR>
> As for running the Third Imperium, hey, I'm all for that.  Just gimme a<BR>
> handful of pirates and some near-C rocks and....BTW what is an amazing Mojo?<BR>
<BR>
Mojo?  Mother Jones?<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Ob-Trav: Why bother, since I have no idea who Mother Jones is and how she<BR>
would relate to the 3I.<BR>
<BR>
John Osborne<BR>
osborne6@wt.net   osborne6@msu.edu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:22:06 -0500<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: People who hate SJG<BR>
<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
Yeah, Chris<BR>
<BR>
Evil Stevie made a few solo adventures, along the "programed adventures"<BR>
line. One was "For Love of Mother Not" based in the Humanax setting ( Flinx<BR>
and other paper backs, and a SJG world book). There were some others, in the<BR>
horror genre' etc, but I can't remember thier named, off the top of my head.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
> Solo adventure books? Was this the Texas Steve Jackson or the English<BR>
Steve<BR>
> Jackson?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:30:00 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Out of game:  No, it doesn't have a lot to do with zg.  It's mostly<BR>
> just fashion...not that there's anything wrong with that.  I haven't<BR>
> mentioned MTU's Muan Gwi stange perchant for cod pieces or the fad<BR>
> among Segui vargr youth of "buzzing" their fur to get "the monk<BR>
> look."<BR>
<BR>
I would imagine that residents of Muan Gwi run a risk of getting into<BR>
fights with offworlders:<BR>
<BR>
"I see that you have nothing to hide." (said to an offworlder not<BR>
wearing a codpiece)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:25:35 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Hyphen for Emperor!<BR>
<BR>
At 12:20 pm 1/4/00 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
>My suggestion is this: wait for a while, and everything will settle<BR>
down.<BR>
>Remember this is a very fast medium, where 3 days is a long time<BR>
(equivalent to<BR>
>45 digests, by my count), and things can heat up and cool down<BR>
within a week.<BR>
>Follow the netiquette suggestions: write your vitriolic reply, get<BR>
it all out of<BR>
>your system, then count to 10 (or 20, in extreme cases ;-). Bin your<BR>
response,<BR>
>and write another. If it still contains flames (esp. personal<BR>
attacks), bin this<BR>
>as well. If you still have a personal problem with someone, just<BR>
take the time<BR>
>to think, "Oh well, they probably don't get out enough, and haven't<BR>
learned the<BR>
>social graces", and you'll probably be right, at least with the<BR>
first bit, since<BR>
>they _are_ a TML reader. [ this was a _joke_, everyone, OK? ;-) ]<BR>
The final<BR>
>method is to unsub for a week or two, then come back.<BR>
><BR>
>Be cool. Wear dark glasses. Fly old air/rafts and feel the<BR>
atmosphere in your<BR>
>hair. Chuckle at the impossibility of iris valves. Avoid grinning at<BR>
Aslan,<BR>
>unless they are wearing comfortable shoes. Don't land at Alell.<BR>
Smile at Norris'<BR>
>symbol, since you know he wears it on his codpiece. When you think<BR>
of this, and<BR>
>Dilgaadin also smiles, wink at him. Take it easy. Don't be afraid of<BR>
pirates.<BR>
>Remember that the Regina subsector is patrolled by four of those<BR>
quality<BR>
>vessels, the Kinunirs. Read the Silly Traveller page more often.<BR>
Wave at Hivers,<BR>
>but avoid the corn dogs. Don't leap off Clifs, unless you are<BR>
wearing your grav<BR>
>belt and fusion gun. Hava Nagila. Have two, they're small. Take a<BR>
romantic trip<BR>
>on the Love Boa^k^k^k "King Richard". Laugh at the Orrimot.<BR>
Innoculate against<BR>
>Viruses. Walk with Strephon in his fountain, but avoid the shower.<BR>
Ignore<BR>
>smart-assed robots. Book in for a very intense tan at Antares.<BR>
Perform a random<BR>
>act of situation comedy. Don't drink and TML.<BR>
><BR>
>But trust me on the dark glasses.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1666<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1667</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1667<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
Re: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
BITS!  Lovely BITS! Wonderful BITS!<BR>
Stupid Emperors of the 3I<BR>
Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!<BR>
Re: "Family"<BR>
Old Pervs<BR>
Re: Old Pervs<BR>
Re: Stupid Emperors of the 3I<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1666<BR>
Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1666<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1666<BR>
Re: "Family"<BR>
Re: "Family"<BR>
Mail filters was Re: Legate Legion<BR>
RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
Re: OT Microsoft Excel<BR>
Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1666<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:24:17 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 05:20 PM,  Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>"Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> types under the influence of RPGs: >|'ve<BR>
>been playing since 1978.  Why haven't I become a satan-worshipper or<BR>
>>have killed myself yet?<BR>
<BR>
>[snip of Tipper quote]<BR>
<BR>
>Because the Tippster was about on target with that statement as her<BR>
>husband  has been with:<BR>
>"I uncovered Love Canal."<BR>
>"I invented the Internet."<BR>
>"Tip and I were the basis for Love Story."<BR>
<BR>
This from the man who may be the next President of the United<BR>
States?  <sigh> Well, it could be worse...<BR>
<BR>
So, who are the most stupid Emperors of the Third Imperium?  Does<BR>
Strephon get anyone's vote?<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:28:14 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 05:26 PM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> Out of game:  No, it doesn't have a lot to do with zg.  It's mostly<BR>
>> just fashion...not that there's anything wrong with that.  I haven't<BR>
>> mentioned MTU's Muan Gwi stange perchant for cod pieces or the fad<BR>
>> among Segui vargr youth of "buzzing" their fur to get "the monk<BR>
>> look."<BR>
<BR>
>I would imagine that residents of Muan Gwi run a risk of getting into<BR>
>fights with offworlders:<BR>
<BR>
>"I see that you have nothing to hide." (said to an offworlder not wearing<BR>
>a codpiece)<BR>
<BR>
Hee!<BR>
<BR>
And females in positions of authority wear faux codpieces.  This is<BR>
a point I'm sure my players will want to note if they ever visit<BR>
that fair land. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:31:44 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at the Piano!<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/2000 11:48, Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Obviously the Village People are a Solomani group.<BR>
> The Cop is a member of SolSec, those beloved guardians<BR>
> of the purity and security of our beloved Confederation.<BR>
> <BR>
> Obviously the group of 100% pure Solomani who comprise the<BR>
> Village People have sworn never to be intimate with women,<BR>
> for fear that these women might be less than 100% pure<BR>
> Solomani. It simply would not do to allow the birth of any<BR>
> more part Solomani, part lesser race, Mongrel-Men. The<BR>
> loyal and patriotic members of this 100% Solomani group<BR>
> are thus, reluctantly, forced to confine their<BR>
> recreational activities to same sex activities to ensure<BR>
> the purity of the Master Race. Truly the nobility of their<BR>
> sacrifice to the Solomani Cause should not be underestimated.<BR>
> <BR>
> - Confederation UnderSecretary of Cultural Affairs Newman<BR>
> <BR>
There's one problem with this IMHO. If the Solomani Party (and all<BR>
affiliated arms thereof) are supposed to be the SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE NAZIS of<BR>
the OTU...then this cultural ascertation of the Solomani Village People<BR>
would run counterproductive to what Nazi Party propaganda REALLY stands for,<BR>
for the following reasons:<BR>
<BR>
1) The National Socialists despised Gay and Lesbian people almost as much<BR>
they did Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, Blacks and "Mongrels" (mixed parentage).<BR>
That's why a lot of them also died right alongside the "Chosen Race" in the<BR>
death camps.<BR>
<BR>
2) National Socialism commanded each and every 100% Aryan to mate with each<BR>
other and produce as many more purebred Aryans as possible. They REWARDED<BR>
couples who bore a lot of children AND were certified as pure by the<BR>
Nuremburg Laws. IIRC, these laws certified a person as "pure" if neither<BR>
their parents, nor their grandparents, were Jewish.<BR>
<BR>
As a result, I stand by my initial postulation that these Village People<BR>
would be hunted everywhere they set foot in the Confederation. They would no<BR>
doubt gain much more acceptance in the Imperium and other polities, who<BR>
wouldn't care about their chosen lifestyle.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:38:42 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
At 10:51 am 1/4/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Jason T. Barnabas wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Are you crazed man?  The only sane methodology would<BR>
>> include the use of a dart gun or some sweet young thing to<BR>
>> sooth him while someone sneaks up to inject him from<BR>
>> behind.  :-o<BR>
><BR>
>Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!<BR>
><BR>
>Like *any* of you people could procure a "sweet young thing", on<BR>
list or<BR>
>off!  Hahahahahahahahahaha!<BR>
<BR>
	Sweet young "thing?" "Thing?" Got two of'em right here, Sammie and<BR>
Cheyenne. Sammie's an 18 month old siamese/tabby mix, and Cheyenne's<BR>
a little calico. Sweetest disposition I've ever seen in cats ...<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:37:21 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: BITS!  Lovely BITS! Wonderful BITS!<BR>
<BR>
Woo hoo!  The Warehouse finally has the new BITS items available to order.<BR>
Yippee!<BR>
<BR>
um. Sorry.  I'm a little excited (see above)<BR>
<BR>
=)<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:46:15 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Stupid Emperors of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> So, who are the most stupid Emperors of the Third Imperium?  Does<BR>
> Strephon get anyone's vote?<BR>
<BR>
<<looking at list of Emperors on pgae 31 of GT (1st ed.)>><BR>
<BR>
I'd have to vote for Emperor Gavin, whose reign (989-1031) included the<BR>
Solomani Rim War (990-1002).  After all, he got the Imperial forces<BR>
involved in a _land war in Asia_!  Not to mention up against Sicilians,<BR>
when death was on the line...<BR>
<BR>
I hear that Emperor Interregnum (613-615) was pretty vacant, too.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:42:59 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!<BR>
<BR>
>There's one problem with this IMHO. If the Solomani Party (and all<BR>
>affiliated arms thereof) are supposed to be the SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE NAZIS<BR>
of<BR>
>the OTU...then this cultural ascertation of the Solomani Village People<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I always thought of the Solomani as more like 1984's EngSoc party. There are<BR>
more dicrepancies between the Sollies and the Nazis than the ones you just<BR>
mentioned.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 15:42:56 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "Family"<BR>
<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:16:04 -0500 (EST), "Douglas E. Berry"<BR>
> <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >A few years back Kirsten bought me a "Nobody Knows I'm a Lesbian" shirt.<BR>
> >You should see the looks I get at Pride with that one on.<BR>
<BR>
The other good shirt for confusing people with insufficiently <BR>
flexible brains: "I'm not gay, but my girlfriend is" (or boyfriend).<BR>
It's almost equally confusing regardless of the wearer's gender.<BR>
 <BR>
> Was it you or Kenji that came up with that classic line a couple<BR>
> of years back? - "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body!"<BR>
<BR>
I've never said it on TML, but I've claimed that for over five years,<BR>
sometimes shortening it to "I'm a virtual lesbian." <BR>
<BR>
By this I mean something more unusual/subtle/weird than the normal <BR>
straight male fascination with watching women getting it on together. <BR>
Not that there's anything wrong with that.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 15:44:56 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Old Pervs<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> It's a delight to see all the old pervs come crawling out of the network,<BR>
> all their inappropriate talents honed and glittering.  <BR>
> <BR>
This could become a .sig file, Kenji.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:46:24 EST<BR>
From: KenRoney@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Old Pervs<BR>
<BR>
Old Pervs!  That describes me way too well.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:46:54 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Stupid Emperors of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 05:45 PM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> <BR>
>> So, who are the most stupid Emperors of the Third Imperium?  Does<BR>
>> Strephon get anyone's vote?<BR>
<BR>
><<looking at list of Emperors on pgae 31 of GT (1st ed.)>><BR>
<BR>
>I'd have to vote for Emperor Gavin, whose reign (989-1031) included the<BR>
>Solomani Rim War (990-1002).  After all, he got the Imperial forces<BR>
>involved in a _land war in Asia_!  Not to mention up against Sicilians,<BR>
>when death was on the line...<BR>
<BR>
Snort! <BR>
<BR>
>I hear that Emperor Interregnum (613-615) was pretty vacant, too.<BR>
<BR>
Double Snort! <g><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 15:50:27 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1666<BR>
<BR>
That well-known reactionary lesbian feminist, Kenji, wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> This reminds me, I've been meaning to ask -- purely out of abstract<BR>
> curiosity, of course -- how many points do you get for making somebody<BR>
> expel a keyboard through their nose?  (Through laughter, I mean.)<BR>
<BR>
Well, there's another 2.0 for you. <BR>
<BR>
Uh, given that I ranked nasal food much higher than nasal drink <BR>
because of the discomfort-and-hard-to-explain-to-the-civilians<BR>
factor, off the top of my head I'd say 4.0 for the expel, +24.0<BR>
for nasal, plus the usual +0.0, +2.0, or +4.0 depending on what <BR>
it lands on. <BR>
<BR>
I'm still a little disturbed by the rapidity with which people <BR>
adopted my scoring system, and by the complete lack of critique <BR>
it got. Kind of explains how MT got published, though.<BR>
<BR>
- -RB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:53:42 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 05:47 PM,  "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>There's one problem with this IMHO. If the Solomani Party (and all<BR>
>>affiliated arms thereof) are supposed to be the SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE NAZIS<BR>
>>ofthe OTU...then this cultural ascertation of the Solomani Village People<BR>
<BR>
>I always thought of the Solomani as more like 1984's EngSoc party. There<BR>
>are more dicrepancies between the Sollies and the Nazis than the ones you<BR>
>just mentioned.<BR>
<BR>
*I* always thought of the Solomani as more like The English Labour<BR>
Party of 1984.  <gd&r><BR>
<BR>
Actually, I figure that the image of Solomani as Space Nazis is in<BR>
large part Imperial propaganda.  Sure there is a minority of<BR>
Sollie Firsters who are Solomani racists and SolSec does keep a<BR>
close eye on foreigners..like 3I travellers who might be agents..but<BR>
that doesn't make the Confederation as a whole a bunch of Nazis.<BR>
No, not anymore than the whole Imperium is composed of degenerates<BR>
and rabid imperialists. <wink><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 23:55:52 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1666<BR>
<BR>
>Uh, given that I ranked nasal food much higher than nasal drink<BR>
>because of the discomfort-and-hard-to-explain-to-the-civilians<BR>
>factor, off the top of my head I'd say 4.0 for the expel, +24.0<BR>
>for nasal, plus the usual +0.0, +2.0, or +4.0 depending on what<BR>
>it lands on.<BR>
<BR>
I once saw someone snort a flour tortilla through their nose....we were all <BR>
applauding and shouting "again, again" while the poor guy went a funny shade <BR>
of purple....<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
<BR>
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:04:13 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1666<BR>
<BR>
Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> I'm still a little disturbed by the rapidity with which people<BR>
> adopted my scoring system, and by the complete lack of critique<BR>
> it got. Kind of explains how MT got published, though.<BR>
<BR>
Hey, we're just playtesting it right now.  Yeah.  That's it. <BR>
Playtesting.  I'll post the first week's scores Sunday night after<BR>
drill, and we can see how things look.<BR>
<BR>
(For the old-school keyboard kill counters, I'm still tallying those as<BR>
well.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 16:03:21<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "Family"<BR>
<BR>
At 05:02 PM 1/4/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Was it you or Kenji that came up with that classic line a couple<BR>
>of years back? - "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body!"<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure who used it here first, but I've been saying it for years.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 16:05:15<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "Family"<BR>
<BR>
At 05:40 PM 1/4/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>As evidence of this, take the fact that I think Doug's T-shirt as worn by<BR>
>him is totally un-funny and sent my blood pressure way up.<BR>
<BR>
Funny, Kirsten's girlfriends think it's great.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:11:33 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Mail filters was Re: Legate Legion<BR>
<BR>
At 8:26 -0500 4/1/00, "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net> wrote:<BR>
>Excuse me, but it would seem to me that everyone could set up their MAIL<BR>
>FILTERS so that whenever they ran across a post from the person in question,<BR>
>it would be automatically deleted. If your mail program was too primitive to<BR>
>have filters, you see his address, DON'T CLICK ON IT...just TRASH it.<BR>
<BR>
Doesn't work for Digest readers, in those parts of the world where we <BR>
pay by the second for internet access Digests download faster <BR>
(overall) and are more effective.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:17:34 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
At 11:21 -0500 4/1/00, Michel Vaillancourt <BR>
<misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>if I wanted to, get a box onto a trunk to filter traffic to/from places like<BR>
>Digital RIver looking for Visa numbers.  If, that is, they didn't use<BR>
>128-bit encryption.<BR>
<BR>
Which is what the USA is preventing the rest of the world having. Oh <BR>
the joys of 40 bit and 56 bit encryption....<BR>
<BR>
Dom (peeved because the Uk's  GCHQ actually invented the technology <BR>
but suppressed it to use for espionage)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:18:50 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
<BR>
At 11:21 -0500 4/1/00,  "Derrick Jones" <BR>
<dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com> wrote:<BR>
>I will definitely be getting there (so long as I'm welcome, that is!), and<BR>
>will be travelling by car, so anyone in the Liverpool area who needs<BR>
>transport,<BR>
>please contact me of list. (Dom, if you're going, we could finally meet up)<BR>
<BR>
Sounds good to me. It may make more sense for me to collect you as <BR>
I'm coming across from the Wirral.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:30:08 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Microsoft Excel<BR>
<BR>
At 9:58 +0000 4/1/00, Gordon Horne <ghorne@home.com> wrote:<BR>
>Well, i tried these both and still no joy. The most annoying thing <BR>
>is that it is obvious M$ violated the programming guidelines for the <BR>
>platform.<BR>
<BR>
Not necessarily, and I hate to defend Microsith, but OS9 dropped some <BR>
of the old APIs as it moves towards the core 'Carbon' set required <BR>
for MacOS X. Adobe has had problems too IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:07:26 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
<BR>
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
I am moving this discussion, after this post, to the "Gamer's Life" mailing<BR>
list. It has only marginal Traveller content, which will disappear after one<BR>
or two responses.<BR>
<BR>
> In the town I used to live in we had two stores that stocked rpgs.<BR>
> They weren't wonderful ,but at least they tried (NZ has always had<BR>
> incedibly bad rpg distrbutors).<BR>
<BR>
So does America, from what I've gathered from my conversations with hobby<BR>
and comic shop folks. The distribution situation was so bad in the late 80s<BR>
and very early 90s, which predates the CCG boom that a few hobby shops I can<BR>
think of dropped RPG lines entirely or scaled back to the point of only<BR>
offering a few lines.<BR>
<BR>
For example, when MegaTraveller came out, local stores wouldn't touch it<BR>
with a ten foot pole. I had to put in a special order for the boxed set.<BR>
<BR>
> When magic came along one store ended up getting<BR>
> out of rpgs because they couldn't get them from the distributos, who<BR>
> had decided that CCGs made them more money for less bother.<BR>
<BR>
Here in the States, there existed, and still exists, a much stronger card<BR>
distribution network than RPG distribution net. There are many reasons for<BR>
this. The card collecting industry is older, much more organized and much<BR>
more stable. I would also venture to say that the card industry is smarter,<BR>
or at least has more savvy, than the RPG industry. The lack of a decent<BR>
distribution network for RPGs is one of the problems that faces the<BR>
industry, and that problem existed before CCGs existed.<BR>
<BR>
Roleplaying game hobbyists, on the other hand, are roleplaying's biggest<BR>
problem. No, I'm not going to rehash the arguments of the RPG apologists who<BR>
whine that mundane-scaring SCA types should stay out of the hobby, or<BR>
proudly proclaim that they were popular in high-school so the freaks should<BR>
stop whining. I think those arguments are ridiculous.<BR>
<BR>
Which is why roleplaying hobbyists are roleplaying's biggest problem.<BR>
Roleplaying is a ghetto, and roleplaying fandom is infused with the ghetto<BR>
mentality. Within the hobby, our internal politics take on absurd, and I do<BR>
mean absurd proportions. The tabletoppers blame slumps on external<BR>
pressures, like CCGs, or internal mutations, like Live-Action Roleplaying.<BR>
The roleplaying hobby is probably the most factionalized fan populations<BR>
that I've ever had the misfortune to deal with.<BR>
<BR>
I hardly need to point that out, we've seen a perfect example of that kind<BR>
of mentality here on the list not that long ago. Beyond that, every version<BR>
flamewar which we have seen on the list is a throbbing symptom of the<BR>
corruption lurking under the surface of our hobby. The frequent target of<BR>
fingerpointing in Traveller fandom is TNE. While that line may be a<BR>
convenient target, such finger pointing raises certain questions. Why did<BR>
MegaTraveller fade out the way it did? Before that, why did Classic<BR>
Traveller fade out the way it did?<BR>
<BR>
However, if the roleplaying hobby can be seen as a ghetto, Traveller is just<BR>
one extremely dysfunctional family in one tenement. People spend completely<BR>
ridiculous amounts of time pointing out the flaws they perceive with the way<BR>
other gamers decide to spend their time. If I had a dollar for every time<BR>
I've heard, "D&D is a munchkin system," or "GURPS fans are stuck up twits,"<BR>
or "White Wolf has destroyed *real* roleplaying, or some variation on those<BR>
themes, I'd surely be a rich man by now.<BR>
<BR>
My father is a serious card collector. I never see him griping about how<BR>
non-sports cards are killing his hobby. When I read through his card<BR>
magazines, I see articles concerning how to win kids back to sports card<BR>
collecting, or articles on the staying power of Pokemon. To the best of my<BR>
knowledge, there is no such outlet for owners of stores that carry RPGs, or<BR>
industry types, or people who are involved intensely in the hobby.<BR>
<BR>
Further, there is a distinctly skewed version of reality among those<BR>
involved within our hobby. Harsh realizations, such as the fact that AD&D is<BR>
the entryway for many, many people into our hobby, just don't sink in. I am<BR>
beyond sick of those who constantly whine that TSR is evil because they make<BR>
money, or they have the most recognizable property, or whatever.<BR>
<BR>
With that being said, TSR's practices in the late 80s were a large part of<BR>
the roleplaying crash of the early 90s. CCGs were just a convenient method<BR>
by which distributors and store owners could jump off the sinking ship and<BR>
offer a product to the same demographic that the AD&D once filled. To put it<BR>
bluntly, in the late 80s, TSR was interested in the churn-market of young<BR>
males. They put out products of abysmal quality. They made *huge* mistakes<BR>
such as focusing on a sci-fi line based on a property which, for most people<BR>
in the churn market, called to mind cheesy reruns of a cancelled television<BR>
show.<BR>
<BR>
Nobody was passing through the gateway anymore, and if they were, they were<BR>
turning around and leaving just as soon as they came in. TSR was quite<BR>
satisfied with the money that its successful Dragonlance property was raking<BR>
in, as well as certain spin off products. However, they had no plan for the<BR>
future. AD&D had simply become a recognizable name to license, not a<BR>
roleplaying game. In that light, it looks a hell of a lot more like the<BR>
collapse of an industry giant, a keystone for the industry, than the rise of<BR>
CCGs which caused the dark days of the early 90s.<BR>
<BR>
Thankfully, TSR's infighting and asinine middle guard went the way of the<BR>
dodo when WotC bought them up. In my opinion WotC really gave the hobby a<BR>
boost. I've stated my opinion before, and I stand by it: if AD&D had been<BR>
allowed to die, the roleplaying industry would have gone right down with it.<BR>
I frankly don't see how it's possible to imagine any other outcome. This<BR>
brings us back to the skewed reality of those in the RPG ghetto. It is<BR>
imagined that AD&D is merely something which can be discarded and its<BR>
removal will just allow another company to fill the role it once did. TSR,<BR>
for years, wasn't even able to fill the role that AD&D does.<BR>
<BR>
White Wolf managed to cut out a big segment of the entry-level market for<BR>
itself when they went superflashy, focusing on style, art and story. Even<BR>
so, White Wolf is to TSR as the Stones were to the Beatles, they're in<BR>
competition, but the markets are sufficiently different that both can exist<BR>
in the same industry. Actually, I think the back and forth competition<BR>
between TSR and White Wolf nowadays is really good for the industry.<BR>
<BR>
> The other,  along with many stores in different towns, reduced its rpg<BR>
> shelf space and stock in favour of CCGs,<BR>
<BR>
That's odd. Didn't see much of that around here, simply because RPGs and<BR>
CCGs get totally different kinds of shelf space. RPGs tend to be in the<BR>
store proper while CCGs tend to take up counter space where the proximity of<BR>
the cards to the staff cuts down on shoplifting.<BR>
<BR>
> and when the distributors started to not<BR>
> bother with rpgs he didn't chase them and put any pressure on<BR>
> them. Not unsurprisingly this lack of rpgs meant that people like<BR>
> myself stopped  buying from his store (I told him why, but he didn't<BR>
> take a lot of notice).<BR>
<BR>
Sounds like a problem with your rather unfriendly local gaming store, if<BR>
anything.<BR>
<BR>
> This is why I feel that CCGs were the biggest source of damage to<BR>
> rpgs in the last decade.<BR>
<BR>
I disagree, though. I think that pointing the finger at external problems,<BR>
or possible problems, and not putting our own house in order first is<BR>
perhaps the biggest problem that faces RPGs.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:16:04 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
>>OK  I'll bite. What's a 'mullet' ?<BR>
<BR>
A mullet is a fish, sometimes called a Lisa.  Depending on where you<BR>
>live, it could be considered good eating or best used as bait.<BR>
>Personally, I think there is little better than a meal of smoked<BR>
>mullet, hushpuppies and coleslaw.<BR>
>Eris,<BR>
>    we also eat croakers!<BR>
<BR>
    Oh, ye gods! (gag) You . . EAT  . . them! In Australia they're<BR>
colloquially named "Sh*tfish" owing to thier diet. (Bottom feeders, often<BR>
found near sewer outlets.)<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:17:20 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1666<BR>
<BR>
> > I'm still a little disturbed by the rapidity with which people<BR>
> > adopted my scoring system, and by the complete lack of critique<BR>
> > it got. Kind of explains how MT got published, though.<BR>
><BR>
>Hey, we're just playtesting it right now.  Yeah.  That's it.<BR>
>Playtesting.  I'll post the first week's scores Sunday night after<BR>
>drill, and we can see how things look.<BR>
><BR>
>(For the old-school keyboard kill counters, I'm still tallying those >as <BR>
>well.)<BR>
<BR>
Well I for one remain a devotee of "Classic Keyboard Kill"....none of this <BR>
"Keyboard Kill: The New Era" for me......<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
<BR>
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1667<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1668</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1668<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Old Pervs<BR>
Re: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
RE: Y2K Bug<BR>
re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1650<BR>
Re: Megatraveller Rules<BR>
Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!<BR>
Internal Strife (was Re CCG's and Elementary Schools)<BR>
Another Filk Fragment: Traveller Canon Religion<BR>
re:  Clothes of the 3I <BR>
Groups<BR>
Re: Clothes of the 3I <BR>
Re: Trimkhana-Brilliance<BR>
RE: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: Traveller Filk Fragments and Twisted ideas<BR>
Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
Re:  Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
Re: Old Pervs<BR>
Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
Re: Megatraveller Rules<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest (TML)  Rant Warning On!<BR>
Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:18:56 -0800<BR>
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Old Pervs<BR>
<BR>
Would it be asking to much to take this and the other totally non-Traveller<BR>
related posts to private email? Some of us actually remember when the TML<BR>
was about a RPG called Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Paul<BR>
<BR>
At 03:44 PM 1/4/00 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> <BR>
>> It's a delight to see all the old pervs come crawling out of the network,<BR>
>> all their inappropriate talents honed and glittering.  <BR>
>> <BR>
>This could become a .sig file, Kenji.<BR>
><BR>
>Kiri  =)<BR>
><BR>
>***************************************************************************<BR>
***<BR>
>Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
><BR>
>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
>Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:23:57 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
>>> Spacers usually wear snug clothing and short hair, but tastes<BR>
>>> vary widely.<BR>
><BR>
>>IMTU, Belters, both sexes, go in for shaved heads and short mohawks.<BR>
>>They tend to wear their "skintights" (the undergarment to their vacc<BR>
>>suits) at all times.<BR>
><BR>
>Assuming this is becuase belters spend time in zero G (which most<BR>
>spacer, in fact, would seldom do), long hair isn't really much of<BR>
>a problem im zero G.  A number of female astronauts have long hair....<BR>
<BR>
    It may be the Larry Niven "Belter Strip"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:15:51 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
<BR>
>Sounds good to me. It may make more sense for me to collect you as<BR>
>I'm coming across from the Wirral.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Which reminds me - is anybody going to be passing through Durham on the way?<BR>
And if so would they mind giving me a lift?<BR>
<BR>
(I'm afraid I don't know which direction Durham's actually in from the<BR>
destination - I'm geographically retarded like that.)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:25:16 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Thing wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>
> <BR>
> > All kawaii onna have the ability to pull 1000 pound mallets (or<BR>
> > mullets) from a special anime dimension.  I'm no exception.<BR>
> <BR>
> Oh my gods!<BR>
> You claim kinship with them.<BR>
> Gibber.<BR>
> <BR>
> I am having "Aa! Megami-sama" flashses and backing away slowly.<BR>
> <BR>
Of the three, I'm definitely much more Urd than Belldandy or Skuld.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:16:10 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
At 14:49 -0500 4/1/00, Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com> wrote:<BR>
>It seems that a lot of people's mail programs don't use the convention<BR>
>of prepending greater-than signs (>) to quoted text in replies, but<BR>
>instead use some sort of horizontal separator. This isn't a big deal<BR>
>for single messages, as there's only one separator to look for, but<BR>
>when reading TML in digest mode, it's very hard to tell where one<BR>
>post ends and another begins while skimming, particularly if more<BR>
>than a full screen's worth of material is quoted.<BR>
<BR>
ISTR that outlook can't do this easily? Certainly my work a/c version <BR>
won't do it. Anyone know how?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:32:56 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1650<BR>
<BR>
Glenn--<BR>
<BR>
I don't know how you got from <BR>
<BR>
"Doug, why don't you call the DA?  This looks like an<BR>
interesting case" <BR>
<BR>
to <BR>
<BR>
"Especially if, as (the other) Glenn suggests, that a complaint<BR>
to law-enforcement authorities is in the works..."<BR>
<BR>
My suggestion to Doug is a very long way from an actual<BR>
complaint to law enforcement.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --- Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com> wrote:<BR>
I had written:<BR>
> >Doug, why don't you call the DA?  This looks like an<BR>
> >interesting case.<BR>
<BR>
You replied:<BR>
 <BR>
> I think someone should send a complaint to Legate's ISP...<BR>
> there's a reasonably good chance that this will result in some<BR>
<BR>
> action. Especially if, as (the other) Glenn suggests, that a <BR>
> complaint to law-enforcement authorities is in the works...<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:39:03 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Megatraveller Rules<BR>
<BR>
>Well, I have all the MT rules in Word format. I created them from the<BR>
>printed manuals, and added most of the errata fixes to them.<BR>
>A while back I got permission from Marc Miller to distribute ten copies<BR>
>of them to members of this list (and one copy to him).<BR>
>If you get permissions from him, I'll send them to you.<BR>
>--<BR>
>Erwin Fritz<BR>
<BR>
    Whoa! (Treasure trove scented)<BR>
    Is this just the core rules, the first three books? If not I'd be very<BR>
interested in getting a copy of those impossible-to-get books. COACC is<BR>
something I've been looking for left, right and centre. There was a few<BR>
others I can't get a hold of. Maybe we should ask Marc if its all right to<BR>
get a copy in a group?<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:47:18 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Lawsuit Baiting<BR>
<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
I haven't been following this thread, but I think I can clarify<BR>
a couple of points:<BR>
<BR>
>Matter of fact, a lawyer could make a *damn* good case <BR>
>*against* him based solely on that letter. I think the crime is<BR>
<BR>
>called "barratry", which under *civil* law (it means something <BR>
>else under military law) is essentially trying to get someone <BR>
>to quit doing something legal by threatening to sue them. <BR>
<BR>
No, barratry is the crime of stirring up litigation between<BR>
people.  Threatening to sue to get someone to stop doing<BR>
something is ordinary and permitted legal and business practice.<BR>
<BR>
>Matter of fact *threatening* to sue someone may qualify on its <BR>
>own. There's a difference between telling someone that they are<BR>
<BR>
>violating your legal rights, which may result in legal action <BR>
>if they don't stop and telling them you'll sue them if they <BR>
>don't stop. <BR>
<BR>
No.  It's perfectly permissible for a lawyer to threaten legal<BR>
action on behalf of a client, whether or not the client has any<BR>
intention of starting a lawsuit.  That is to say, bluffing is<BR>
OK, just as it is in any other business negotiation.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:45:25 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : limitations of TL 8 medicine (was : Re : A very happy new year)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 06:41 PM,  "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au> said:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>>OK  I'll bite. What's a 'mullet' ?<BR>
<BR>
>A mullet is a fish, sometimes called a Lisa.  Depending on where you<BR>
>>live, it could be considered good eating or best used as bait.<BR>
>>Personally, I think there is little better than a meal of smoked<BR>
>>mullet, hushpuppies and coleslaw.<BR>
>>Eris,<BR>
>>    we also eat croakers!<BR>
<BR>
>    Oh, ye gods! (gag) You . . EAT  . . them! In Australia they're<BR>
>colloquially named "Sh*tfish" owing to thier diet. (Bottom feeders, often<BR>
>found near sewer outlets.)<BR>
<BR>
We *clean* them first, Jim. ;-p <BR>
<BR>
Now you know why the marketing types insisted on calling them Lisa<BR>
when trying to get the rest of the world to eat our lovery mullet.<BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
   I would say, "You are what you eat." but *some* of you might take<BR>
   the wrong way.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:08:39 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!<BR>
<BR>
Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:53:42 -0600<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, I figure that the image of Solomani as Space Nazis is in<BR>
>large part Imperial propaganda.  Sure there is a minority of<BR>
>Sollie Firsters who are Solomani racists and SolSec does keep a<BR>
>close eye on foreigners..like 3I travellers who might be agents..but<BR>
>that doesn't make the Confederation as a whole a bunch of Nazis.<BR>
>No, not anymore than the whole Imperium is composed of degenerates<BR>
>and rabid imperialists. <wink><BR>
<BR>
Whatever ideology, the current policy of the Confederation is<BR>
more nationalist (liberate our lands) than anything else.<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 19:03:34 -0600<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
Subject: Internal Strife (was Re CCG's and Elementary Schools)<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:07:26 -0500<BR>
>From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
><BR>
>Which is why roleplaying hobbyists are roleplaying's biggest problem.<BR>
>Roleplaying is a ghetto, and roleplaying fandom is infused with the ghetto<BR>
>mentality. Within the hobby, our internal politics take on absurd, and I do<BR>
>mean absurd proportions. The tabletoppers blame slumps on external<BR>
>pressures, like CCGs, or internal mutations, like Live-Action Roleplaying.<BR>
>The roleplaying hobby is probably the most factionalized fan populations<BR>
>that I've ever had the misfortune to deal with.<BR>
><BR>
>I hardly need to point that out, we've seen a perfect example of that kind<BR>
>of mentality here on the list not that long ago. Beyond that, every version<BR>
>flamewar which we have seen on the list is a throbbing symptom of the<BR>
>corruption lurking under the surface of our hobby. The frequent target of<BR>
>fingerpointing in Traveller fandom is TNE. While that line may be a<BR>
>convenient target, such finger pointing raises certain questions. Why did<BR>
>MegaTraveller fade out the way it did? Before that, why did Classic<BR>
>Traveller fade out the way it did?<BR>
<BR>
Chris, I couldn't agree with you more on your entire post.  That is why,<BR>
despite people believing that I have negative motives (which surprises me),<BR>
I've set up a place were Traveller fans can discuss a slightly focused<BR>
topic (GURPS Traveller as well as non-system specific Traveller) to foster<BR>
interest and growth in our personal gaming experiences: xboat@egroups.com.<BR>
 The list is still at  a tender age but I urge you and anyone else to at<BR>
least take a look at the first few posts (I think as of the time of this<BR>
writing we have 12 posts).   <BR>
<BR>
http://www.egroups.com/group/xboat/<BR>
<BR>
I think (even if you are not interested in the topics) you will find so far<BR>
we are on topic (GT as well as non-system specific Traveller) and<BR>
civilized.   I hope that the goals of low volume, high density, and high<BR>
quality are being reasonably met in other people's eyes.<BR>
<BR>
I urge you (if the topic interests you), and anyone who is interested in a<BR>
non-destructive forum for GT that will foster growth and interest in that<BR>
aspect of gaming, to help make the XBOAT list better by sending a blank<BR>
message to xboat-subscribe@egroups.com and contributing in a positive manner.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks much,<BR>
<BR>
Stu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:12:19 -0600<BR>
From: "shadowcat" <meow@advancenet.net><BR>
Subject: Another Filk Fragment: Traveller Canon Religion<BR>
<BR>
ok, heres one thats sure to get me burned at the stake.<BR>
<BR>
Traveller Canon Religion<BR>
a parody of of the infamous Real Olde Time Religion<BR>
attributed to Juanita Coulson and half the known universe.<BR>
<BR>
Shadowcat AKA Kevin Walsh<BR>
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf<BR>
ADD/ADHD Advocate<BR>
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:17:18 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Clothes of the 3I <BR>
<BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
<BR>
>I don't think this _has_ been really addressed much.  <BR>
<BR>
>I'd actually be very interested in hearing ideas about any of <BR>
>this stuff, since it's outa my league.<BR>
<BR>
Doesn't everybody just wear black tshirts and jeans, except when<BR>
they're wearing camouflage?<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:16:38 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Groups<BR>
<BR>
    I was wondering, what is the preferred number of players that GMs have<BR>
and why? I've run scenarios for 15 players and I've run for 1 and enjoyed<BR>
the game. I would have to say that I prefer 3 or 4 players the most though,<BR>
enough that everyone gets a go fairly quickly and still retain a decent<BR>
input for problem solving and planning.<BR>
    I have noticed that most store bought games seem to assume around six<BR>
players, is this common?<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:17:24 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Clothes of the 3I <BR>
<BR>
This sure would make painting miniatures easier.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Doesn't everybody just wear black tshirts and jeans, except when<BR>
> they're wearing camouflage?<BR>
> <BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:34:35 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Trimkhana-Brilliance<BR>
<BR>
>From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
<BR>
>  And then the scumbags had the nerve to blame terrorists for <BR>
>their obvious criminal negligence. Gods, why didn't they try <BR>
>something original like blaming it on the hyperspatial gravity <BR>
>well of a tiny parallel universe or similar nonsense?<BR>
<BR>
How did you know about the tiny parallel universe?  What's your<BR>
security clearance?  Would you come with us, please.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:34:53 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Thing <gduke@kendaco.telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > I am having "Aa! Megami-sama" flashses and backing away slowly.<BR>
> > <BR>
> Of the three, I'm definitely much more Urd than Belldandy or Skuld.<BR>
<BR>
Physically, tempermentally, or both.<BR>
<BR>
On second thought, don't answer that.  Any of those answers would probably<BR>
put a picture of you in my head that I shouldn't have when reading your<BR>
posts.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
======<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:39:46 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Filk Fragments and Twisted ideas<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
Bravo!! Encore!!  Free bird!!<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 16:40:48 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
<BR>
"Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav: In many recent sf movies and shows, it is assumed that data storage<BR>
> will keep getting smaller, with tiny cd-like disks having multi-gigabyte<BR>
> capacities used as the norm for data transfer. But how small is too small?<BR>
> This is where human design considerations come into play. When the<BR>
> technology to put a terabyte or three on a microdot comes into it's own,<BR>
> how much wasted space must be added to make it comfortable for human use?<BR>
> What is the smallest size you would imagine to be convenient for people to<BR>
> use?<BR>
<BR>
In GURPS CD's shrink to dime size & stay that way (at<BR>
TL 9 IIRC). This is too small & makes them too easy to<BR>
loose & too hard to label. I'd say the smallest practical <BR>
size is somewhere in the US Silver Dollar to credit<BR>
card size.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 16:48:20 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re:  Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> how many points do you get for making somebody<BR>
> expel a keyboard through their nose?  (Through laughter, I mean.)<BR>
<BR>
I will not ask Kenji what the keyboard was doing in their nose.<BR>
I will not ask Kenji what the keyboard was doing in their nose.<BR>
I will not ask Kenji what the keyboard was doing in their nose.<BR>
I will not ask Kenji what the keyboard was doing in their nose.<BR>
I will not ask Kenji what the keyboard was doing in their nose.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, darn it Kenji! <BR>
What was the keyboard doing in a place where it could be <BR>
expelled through their nose?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 16:48:51 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Old Pervs<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> It's a delight to see all the old pervs <BR>
<BR>
I'm only 33, that's not old.<BR>
<BR>
> come crawling out of the network,<BR>
> all their inappropriate talents honed and glittering. <BR>
<BR>
It's semester break & I have the time, I promise to <BR>
unsubscribe by the end of the week.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 19:58:46 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
<BR>
Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> wrote<BR>
> <BR>
> > ObTrav: In many recent sf movies and shows, it is assumed that data storage<BR>
> > will keep getting smaller, with tiny cd-like disks having multi-gigabyte<BR>
> > capacities used as the norm for data transfer. But how small is too small?<BR>
> > This is where human design considerations come into play. When the<BR>
> > technology to put a terabyte or three on a microdot comes into it's own,<BR>
> > how much wasted space must be added to make it comfortable for human use?<BR>
> > What is the smallest size you would imagine to be convenient for people to<BR>
> > use?<BR>
> <BR>
> In GURPS CD's shrink to dime size & stay that way (at<BR>
> TL 9 IIRC). This is too small & makes them too easy to<BR>
> loose & too hard to label. I'd say the smallest practical<BR>
> size is somewhere in the US Silver Dollar to credit<BR>
> card size.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I think that the size of the average digital watch (a pretty<BR>
neat idea in itself!) is a good size for a few terabytes of data. <BR>
Ideally, one datachip the size of a digital watch should hold enough<BR>
data to equal the sum of all knowledge (including things that _haven't<BR>
even been discovered yet_!).<BR>
<BR>
Then again, I won't be truly satisfied until I own a computer that dims<BR>
streetlights and shrinks TV screens for kilometers around when I turn my<BR>
machine on....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 21:05:50 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
<BR>
Well there is that holographic DVD format coming out that right now stores<BR>
140 gigabytes and should be in the terabyte range real soon.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Black ICE" <wombat@premier.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 8:58 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> wrote<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > ObTrav: In many recent sf movies and shows, it is assumed that data<BR>
storage<BR>
> > > will keep getting smaller, with tiny cd-like disks having<BR>
multi-gigabyte<BR>
> > > capacities used as the norm for data transfer. But how small is too<BR>
small?<BR>
> > > This is where human design considerations come into play. When the<BR>
> > > technology to put a terabyte or three on a microdot comes into it's<BR>
own,<BR>
> > > how much wasted space must be added to make it comfortable for human<BR>
use?<BR>
> > > What is the smallest size you would imagine to be convenient for<BR>
people to<BR>
> > > use?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > In GURPS CD's shrink to dime size & stay that way (at<BR>
> > TL 9 IIRC). This is too small & makes them too easy to<BR>
> > loose & too hard to label. I'd say the smallest practical<BR>
> > size is somewhere in the US Silver Dollar to credit<BR>
> > card size.<BR>
><BR>
> Personally, I think that the size of the average digital watch (a pretty<BR>
> neat idea in itself!) is a good size for a few terabytes of data.<BR>
> Ideally, one datachip the size of a digital watch should hold enough<BR>
> data to equal the sum of all knowledge (including things that _haven't<BR>
> even been discovered yet_!).<BR>
><BR>
> Then again, I won't be truly satisfied until I own a computer that dims<BR>
> streetlights and shrinks TV screens for kilometers around when I turn my<BR>
> machine on....<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
> "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
> Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 19:01:29 -0700<BR>
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Megatraveller Rules<BR>
<BR>
Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Well, I have all the MT rules in Word format. I created them from the<BR>
> >printed manuals, and added most of the errata fixes to them.<BR>
> >A while back I got permission from Marc Miller to distribute ten copies<BR>
> >of them to members of this list (and one copy to him).<BR>
> >If you get permissions from him, I'll send them to you.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
>     Whoa! (Treasure trove scented)<BR>
>     Is this just the core rules, the first three books? If not I'd be very<BR>
> interested in getting a copy of those impossible-to-get books. COACC is<BR>
> something I've been looking for left, right and centre. There was a few<BR>
> others I can't get a hold of. Maybe we should ask Marc if its all right to<BR>
> get a copy in a group?<BR>
<BR>
It's just the three books that come with the MT boxed set.<BR>
- -- <BR>
Erwin Fritz<BR>
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.<BR>
http://www.glja.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 19:01:53 -0700<BR>
From: "Eric T. or Maryann C. Holmes" <holmberg@thuntek.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest (TML)  Rant Warning On!<BR>
<BR>
Fellow Citizens:<BR>
<BR>
  --  Rant Warning On  --  <BR>
<BR>
Will the real TML please stand up?<BR>
<BR>
I just deleted over 150 messages and more than 75% of the discussion dealt with<BR>
various topics other than Traveller.  I won't say what the most common<BR>
train of thought<BR>
happens to be.<BR>
<BR>
I've been reading this newsletter for over two and a half years and this is<BR>
the worst<BR>
I've seen it...I don't care about your personal take on life and I think<BR>
most readers will<BR>
agree with me.  I also don't appreciate any "hate" mail directed at anyone<BR>
on any list.<BR>
<BR>
I am a very tolerant person when it comes to individuals and their likes<BR>
and dislikes.<BR>
So, come on, let's get back on track here.....<BR>
<BR>
If it isn't Traveller, and I don't care which version, it shouldn't be<BR>
discussed here.<BR>
<BR>
Well wishers for the Holidays are always okay, as well as congratulatory<BR>
and sympathy<BR>
well wishers.<BR>
<BR>
Any flames may be directed to me personally, just keep it off the TML.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for letting me rant.  I really don't want to leave the list.<BR>
<BR>
Rant Off<BR>
<BR>
Rant meter was at a level of F3.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eric T. Holmes<BR>
<BR>
eholmes@lanl.gov			holmberg@thuntek.net<BR>
7am to 4pm Mountain Time	6pm to Midnight Mountain Time<BR>
<BR>
IMTU:  he+, tc+, tm, tne, t4, tg, tt, to, ru, ge, 3i+, c+, jt, au, st, ls+,<BR>
pi+, ta+,<BR>
	as+, va+, dr+, _sa_, kk--, hi--, so++, zh, vi, da, sy, _hu_ <BR>
		(sa = other sapients, hu = other humani)<BR>
<BR>
Lacedaemon, we have done our duty.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:03:25 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Mark replied:<BR>
>"You have the right to remain silent, but if you fail to mention anything that<BR>
>may later be used in your defense the court may draw inferences from your<BR>
>failing to do so."<BR>
<BR>
I thought it was:<BR>
"You have the right to remain silent, but it may harm your defence if you do not<BR>
mention something, when questioned, that you later rely on in court."<BR>
<BR>
At least, that's what they say on "The Bill".  ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1668<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1669</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1669<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
RE: Family<BR>
Re: Laws of physics<BR>
FGU OOP Games (was Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie)<BR>
Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
Re: Gunnery<BR>
Re: Big Ben (Was:  Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message)<BR>
Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
Re: Hyphen for Emperor!<BR>
Thread Jumping Lists (was Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools)<BR>
Re: The Village People<BR>
Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
Re: The Village People <BR>
Re: The Village People<BR>
Re:  Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:30:27 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 10:48 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Jason T. Barnabas wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Are you crazed man?  The only sane methodology would<BR>
>> include the use of a dart gun or some sweet young thing to<BR>
>> sooth him while someone sneaks up to inject him from<BR>
>> behind.  :-o<BR>
><BR>
>Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!<BR>
><BR>
>Like *any* of you people could procure a "sweet young thing", on list or<BR>
>off!  Hahahahahahahahahaha!<BR>
><BR>
>Kenji<BR>
><BR>
I truly believe with my broker skill of 5 and streetwise skill of 2 I could<BR>
put together a little something in the way of a sweet young thing I just<BR>
need to find someone with bribery to make it all work.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:08:35 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Family<BR>
<BR>
>From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
<BR>
>Work for Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, do you Leonard?:)<BR>
<BR>
>>On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>
[deletion]<BR>
>>"It's not my planet, monkey-boy!"<BR>
><oops, there goes the cover.... :-) <BR>
<BR>
In my Traveller Universe, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems is a<BR>
wholly owned subsidiary of GsBAG LIC.  I've made some business<BR>
cards for myself as corporate counsel.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 01:13:48 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Laws of physics<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 04 January 2000 09:41<BR>
Subject: Re: Laws of physics<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>>However, I was once disallowed as a Call of Cthulhu character due to my<BR>
>demonstratable skills in the categories of Occult and Mythos knowledge.<BR>
>Everyone else was allowed to play themselves- but not me.  :P<BR>
>>><BR>
>>Why were you disallowed? I've never played the game. However, from what<BR>
>I've heard about it, high Occult and Mythos scores just give your character<BR>
>a much shorter life expectancy.<BR>
>><BR>
>They lower your sanity, which can lower your life expectancy.  (I've read a<BR>
>lot of Mythos stuff and could at that time do most trivia quizzes on it--<BR>
on<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
errr... no.<BR>
<BR>
You've read a lot of fiction which used a hypothetical Mythos as a backdrop.<BR>
You don't have Cthulhu Mythos *Skill* per CoC. If you did you would *know*<BR>
that this stuff is real, and that hellish abominations from beyond *really<BR>
are* out to enslave/destroy the earth. Otherwise any player who had read the<BR>
rule book would have a good 40 - 50% Mythos score.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond<BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 01:29:28 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: FGU OOP Games (was Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 04 January 2000 13:09<BR>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie (was: Re: GURPS vs Trav)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Jan 00, at 22:57, Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 1/3/00 2:00:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,<BR>
> frankie@mundens.gen.nz writes:<BR>
><BR>
> << Reportedly that guy has also repeatedly refused to sell the copyright<BR>
> on<BR>
>  Daredevils, Aftermath, & Bushido, either back to Bob & Paul, or to other<BR>
>  companies who were willing to republish it.<BR>
><BR>
>  Much like Mr. Sanger. >><BR>
><BR>
> I know Scott. He's not nearly as bad as the dark one...:-).<BR>
<BR>
From what I've heard it was mainly that he wanted the authors to buy<BR>
all the old stock along with the copyrights. Seeing as the authors<BR>
wanted the coprrights, trademarks, etc so they could write new editions<BR>
they naturally weren't very interested in spending money they didn't<BR>
have on stock they were about to make obselete.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
- ----------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Well, given the prices things can reach on eBay, just buy the backstock and<BR>
auction it off. Probably pay for itself and the copyrights too.  I know that<BR>
if I had the money up front there are several looong OOP games I'd like to<BR>
pick up and revamp. (course, the market has probably changed out of all<BR>
recognition, and they'd flop like a floppy thing, but hell, I can dream,<BR>
can't I... <g>)<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 01:42:04 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Derrick Jones <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
To: 'Traveller Digest' <traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 04 January 2000 15:02<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>>Well a traveller /// TML Game in Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK.<BR>
>>March 11th and 12th<BR>
><BR>
>I will definitely be getting there (so long as I'm welcome, that is!), and<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
ditto<BR>
<BR>
>will be travelling by car, so anyone in the Liverpool area who needs<BR>
>transport,<BR>
>please contact me of list. (Dom, if you're going, we could finally meet up)<BR>
><BR>
>Derrick<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Well, looking at my trusty map, I see a train station in Hebden Bridge, so<BR>
barring a lift from Leeds I'll let the train take the strain.  Actually,<BR>
that's probably the easiest way for those of us without cars that live on<BR>
the right side of the Pennines to get there.  We could meet at Leeds<BR>
Station, and go down (errr... across) en masse. Thats almost certainly the<BR>
best way for Nick Bradbeer (iirc) who wants to come from Durham sans car.<BR>
<BR>
Just my Cr0.02<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond<BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:09:16 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Chauncey Smith <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 04 January 2000 18:10<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>wading into this from a legal point of view. I believe one of the important<BR>
>parts to this case is proof that you can pull it off. Or the implied belief<BR>
>that the person threating will take some action.<BR>
><BR>
>This is equal to yelling fire in a room verses me typing here let's go to<BR>
>SJG (example only) and burn the building down. If I type that here then no<BR>
>one really believes we're going to show up at SJG with torches. The same<BR>
>applies here. No matter how inflamed LL may be no one here is quaking with<BR>
>the fear that he will show up at their house on game night to check and see<BR>
>if Gurps books are on the table or not.<BR>
><BR>
>The key I believe, as a late comer, is to honestly looking at what was said<BR>
>and defusing the emotion from the thought. Yes it is an emotionally charged<BR>
>issue. Yes LL made some statements that may be unfriendly. BUT Does any one<BR>
>really believe he'll show up on game night to see if ppl have gurps with<BR>
>weapon in hand?<BR>
><BR>
>Next point what court in the US would really convict LL for typing some<BR>
>inflammatory remarks? If they would take time to do that I'd suggest that<BR>
>moneys be spent more productively on something much better then what<BR>
someone<BR>
>typed on line...<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, and those nice boys in Colorado didn't really mean the things they<BR>
said online, or on their web pages. No-one really *believed* that they'd<BR>
show up at school with more armament than Mad Max on a bad day.<BR>
<BR>
Now, don't get me wrong, not everything people post represents their true<BR>
intentions/beliefs (I hope...), and I for one believe LL was exercising<BR>
hyperbole with his posts.<BR>
<BR>
However, as Doug pointed out, too many people have suffered in reality to be<BR>
oblivious to such statements. If LL had come back, apologised, and said<BR>
forex "Ok folks, sorry 'bout that, just blowing off some steam.  I just don'<BR>
t like the game, company, or customers, but that's just me." then fair<BR>
enough.<BR>
<BR>
But instead he came back with some rant about seeing Gurps players/writers<BR>
blood on the outside of  their bodies.<BR>
<BR>
LL brought this on himself. What happens next I dunno... but I don't think<BR>
inflammatory remarks on Usenet are necessarily trivial, as you appear to.<BR>
<BR>
YMMV<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond<BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:11:58 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 04 January 2000 18:17<BR>
Subject: Re: Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>David P. Summers wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Mon, 03 Jan 2000 16:44:04 -0700<BR>
<BR>
>> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>> They do make sense for casual boaters on small craft.  On a liner<BR>
>> you are never going to see eveyone walking around in life jackets....<BR>
><BR>
>True, and the last liner that was lost with all hands??? The death toll<BR>
>from small craft accidents far, far exceeds the death toll of all the<BR>
>liners that have sunk to date.<BR>
><BR>
>-- <BR>
>Bruce Johnson<BR>
>University of Arizona<BR>
>College of Pharmacy<BR>
>Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Well, I don't know about liners, but ferries seem to go down like ninepins<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond      <BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:40:46 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Big Ben (Was:  Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jason T. Barnabas <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 04 January 2000 05:45<BR>
Subject: Big Ben (Was: Re: The Steve Jackson Games New Year Message)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>> From: Jason T. Barnabas <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
>> I have a question about that particular clock.  How many<BR>
>> faces does it have on which you can read the time?<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> the answer is four, one on each side.<BR>
><BR>
> Why do you ask?<BR>
<BR>
Because in the photos I've seen, only one face shows.<BR>
Since I've never it from any angle but straight on, I didn't<BR>
know.  I've seen clock towers than only have a clock on<BR>
one or two faces, so past experience was no proof.<BR>
<BR>
Thank you for the information.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
- -----------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
You're welcome.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond      <BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 20:20:02 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 07:56 PM,  Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>In GURPS CD's shrink to dime size & stay that way (at<BR>
>TL 9 IIRC). This is too small & makes them too easy to<BR>
>loose & too hard to label. I'd say the smallest practical <BR>
>size is somewhere in the US Silver Dollar to credit<BR>
>card size.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, I use higher volume hardware, less than CT, but not too much<BR>
less.  Data storage media doesn't shrink much, anything smaller than<BR>
a current "minidisk" is just too small to be practical for handling.<BR>
<BR>
The mainstay of removable storage is the "data disk" (80x100x5 mm).<BR>
It's called a disk, but is really non-volitile solid state storage<BR>
holding roughly 2.5 gB.<BR>
<BR>
Electronic cards, credit card sized (50x80x2 mm) hold 300 mB. These<BR>
cards are used to hold medical, financial and personal data.  They<BR>
are also used for the distribution of smaller programs and data<BR>
sets. <BR>
<BR>
Data Carts (100x200x24 mm) are the larger storage standard, normally<BR>
hold several redundent copies of data, in a 75 gB storage space.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 20:35:25 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 08:27 PM,  eris@pcola.gulf.net said:<BR>
<BR>
>IMTU, I use higher volume hardware, less than CT, but not too much less. <BR>
>Data storage media doesn't shrink much, anything smaller than a current<BR>
>"minidisk" is just too small to be practical for handling.<BR>
<BR>
Replying to my own post. <g><BR>
<BR>
I *know* we'll be able to do better than my standards real soon<BR>
now...although in fast non-volitile r/w it might take a hair<BR>
longer..but that's not the point.  The point, for me anyway, is the<BR>
gaming implications.  If you can put the sum of all knowledge in a<BR>
dime package for pennies, interfaced to a tetra-fast processor all<BR>
housed in something the size of a digital wristwatch then the game<BR>
becomes *very* different.<BR>
<BR>
Just go ahead and implant the thing and interface it to the proper<BR>
nerves and you can have an interesting game.  It just won't be what<BR>
I call Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:38:48 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Hyphen for Emperor!<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
David G wrote:<BR>
>Subject: Hyphen for Emperor!<BR>
<BR>
Been there, done that. Did I mention playing the Big S at Sydcon?  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
(thanks for the vote)<BR>
<BR>
- - Hyphen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 22:46:26 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Thread Jumping Lists (was Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools)<BR>
<BR>
At 07:07 PM 1/4/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>I am moving this discussion, after this post, to the "Gamer's Life" mailing<BR>
>list. It has only marginal Traveller content, which will disappear after one<BR>
>or two responses.<BR>
><BR>
        [snip]<BR>
<BR>
        For anyone who wants to follow the discussion there, send a message<BR>
to " agamerslife-request@atlantic-online.ns.ca" with only the word<BR>
"subscribe" as the message body. <BR>
        For a list of other mailing lists hosted, send a message to<BR>
"petidomo@atlantic-online.ns.ca" with the only the word "list" as the<BR>
message body.<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:48:07 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> In order to combine songs, flammable topics, and "lifestyles", shall we<BR>
> have an enlightened and enlightening discussion about pirates, too,<BR>
> perhaps?<BR>
<BR>
How's this.<BR>
<BR>
As everyone knows many Caribbean pirates were homosexuals.<BR>
<BR>
This proves that Piracy attracts homosexuals.<BR>
<BR>
Therefore many Imperial Pirates will be homosexuals.<BR>
<BR>
Given that all homosexuals stick together as part of<BR>
the gay Mafia it is therefore obvious that Norris, who<BR>
is obviously gay himself, has ordered that they be left <BR>
alone.<BR>
<BR>
Therefore Piracy is obviously running rampant [double <BR>
entendre is deliberate] in the Spinward Marches. <BR>
<BR>
And what about Dulinor? Ever seen pictures of the man?<BR>
Look at him! He's an obvious leather boy. Look at the<BR>
fact that he always wears all black outfits. Look at his <BR>
ugly, 20 years older, fag hag wife. Look at his gun fetish. <BR>
Obviously Dulinor's assassination of Strephon was just a <BR>
lovers quarrel.<BR>
<BR>
And what about Strephon? Did you ever wonder just what<BR>
Strephon saw in the (much younger) Dulinor that made<BR>
Strephon elevate Dulinor to an Archdutchy? Kind of makes<BR>
you wonder about what else was getting elevated back at<BR>
Capitol? Did you ever wonder why Strephon got married<BR>
so young? To protect the succession, _right_. Or was it<BR>
to stop the rumors? Strephon figured "Hey getting married<BR>
worked so well to stop the gay rumors for all those<BR>
Solomani movie stars. It should work for me."<BR>
<BR>
Did you ever wonder if all those high nobles in Traveller<BR>
had clones made so that when someone told them to go<BR>
F*** themselves they could do it?<BR>
<BR>
What about the Scouts? All those brave explorers<BR>
in the Exploration branch bravely going where no<BR>
man has gone before? All those prissy queens in the<BR>
X-boat service who spend their lives dishing gossip, er,<BR>
delivering the male, er mail? And what about Scout Brew?<BR>
"Oh I did not really mean to sleep with another guy,<BR>
I was too drunk on Scout Brew to know what I was doing"<BR>
How _convenient_.<BR>
<BR>
And what about the Navy? A Navy based on Terran<BR>
Navies. Including the Royal Navy, whose three great<BR>
traditions [According to Sir Winston Churchill, who<BR>
admitted to him own same sex experimentation's] were<BR>
"Rum, Sodomy, and the lash." Well I think we know<BR>
what sort of men you will find "In The Navy" don't we?<BR>
<BR>
And what about the Marines, those big strong, butch<BR>
super warriors who have to put on a big, hard, metal<BR>
suit over every part of their body to make themselves<BR>
get ready to f***, er to fight. <BR>
<BR>
What about the Merchants? A whole class based on the<BR>
notion that "Money changes everything." Obviously<BR>
the Merchants are nothing but a bunch of interstellar<BR>
rent boys, peddling their sad little asses across the<BR>
universe.<BR>
<BR>
And what about the "Others" the sixth of CT's classes.<BR>
Ever wonder just why it was CT never defined just <BR>
what the Others did and why so many of them ended up<BR>
with Streetwise skill? Ever realize how all the others<BR>
are all in the closet about whatever it is they like<BR>
to do to, er, earn a living?<BR>
<BR>
What about the fact that as the player characters get<BR>
older their services thrust them out into the cold<BR>
cruel world and replace them with younger [prettier]<BR>
ones? The services just represent sugar daddy's who have<BR>
grown tired of the PC's.<BR>
<BR>
And what about Vargr? We all know male dogs will<BR>
screw other male dogs to prove their dominance. Well<BR>
what about Archduke Bzrk? How many lesser Vargr has<BR>
he taken? Just what services did he offer Strephon?<BR>
<BR>
And what about those Hivers? Admitted bisexuals every <BR>
single one of them.<BR>
<BR>
And what about those Aslan. Three times as many women<BR>
as men? Obviously the Aslan are the token lesbians<BR>
in the otherwise completely male homosexual future<BR>
[We will not discuss that obvious lesbian Margaret<BR>
much merely noting her turkey-baster kids should <BR>
cover it.]<BR>
<BR>
And what about those K'Kree? In their society women<BR>
have no role. Instead everything is decided by the<BR>
men - just like in ancient Greece, that hotbed of<BR>
homosexuality.<BR>
<BR>
What about the Zhondani? Did you ever stop to think<BR>
about just what those turbans really symbolize?<BR>
All those Zhodani want you to know that they have big<BR>
bulbous heads. And what about Psionics? Did you ever<BR>
stop to think about what knowing everyones inner<BR>
fantasies really means?<BR>
<BR>
And what about the Moot Spire? It's nothing but a giant<BR>
dildo more than a mile high. Only the Moot Spire can be<BR>
higher than the Imperial Palace. The Imperial Palace<BR>
used to be a tall pointy spikey thing but is now a big<BR>
ball with two smaller balls floating next to it.<BR>
Hmmmmm....<BR>
<BR>
How the f*** did the Imperium get to have trillions<BR>
of inhabitants when everyone in it is gay? Thank goodness <BR>
for high-tech medicine.<BR>
<BR>
And what about the secret mastermind of the Traveller<BR>
Universe, Yaskodray? Did you ever notice that he had<BR>
only sons, and grandsons? Obvious homosexual incest<BR>
right there. And what about Yaskodray's "children" the<BR>
Droyne, just what sort of sexual perversions do they<BR>
participate in? <BR>
<BR>
The fact that this is largely undiscussed in canon sources<BR>
is obviously a Templar plot.<BR>
<BR>
Obviously all of Traveller is just one long extended<BR>
metaphor for homosexuality, primarily male homosexuality.<BR>
<BR>
Obviously all you Traveller fans who claim to be straight<BR>
just do not realize your own personal hidden homosexual<BR>
yearnings. Yearnings you can not admit to yourselves so<BR>
you sublimate them through role playing, through<BR>
_pretending_ to be someone else.<BR>
<BR>
Ever wonder just why it is you are hanging out on a<BR>
99.5% male Traveller Mailing List? <BR>
<BR>
Anyone who disagrees with me in any way is obviously<BR>
100% wrong. :)<BR>
<BR>
Discuss.<BR>
<BR>
[With profound apologies to anyone who actually wrote<BR>
any canon and who is straight identified.]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 22:01:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, David J. Golden wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> 	Sweet young "thing?" "Thing?" Got two of'em right here, Sammie and<BR>
> Cheyenne. Sammie's an 18 month old siamese/tabby mix, and Cheyenne's<BR>
> a little calico. Sweetest disposition I've ever seen in cats ...<BR>
<BR>
Those aren't "things", those are devolved Aslan.  They were kidnapped by<BR>
the Village People and subjected to hideous Solomani genetic experiments<BR>
before being rescued by Hivers, who were taking a break from playing Quake<BR>
and went out in search of corn dogs from the nearest 7-11.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:01:59 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People <BR>
<BR>
>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
>Obviously the Village People are a Solomani group.<BR>
[deletion]<BR>
>The loyal and patriotic members of this 100% Solomani group<BR>
>are thus, reluctantly, forced to confine their recreational <BR>
>activities to same sex activities to ensure the purity of the <BR>
>Master Race. Truly the nobility of their sacrifice to the <BR>
>Solomani Cause should not be underestimated.<BR>
<BR>
That was good.  I'm glad I wasn't drinking.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 21:14:14 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People<BR>
<BR>
Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote<BR>
> <BR>
> > In order to combine songs, flammable topics, and "lifestyles", shall we<BR>
> > have an enlightened and enlightening discussion about pirates, too,<BR>
> > perhaps?<BR>
> <BR>
> How's this.<BR>
> <BR>
<<snips entertaining rant>><BR>
> <BR>
> Discuss.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I could paraphrase Shakespeare, and say:<BR>
"The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks."<BR>
<BR>
http://www.bartleby.com/99/138.32.html<BR>
<BR>
(Item 139)<BR>
<BR>
But that would imply things of which I have no actual knowledge, so I<BR>
won't.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 22:10:50 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re:  Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
Covering it with microbes against which the Vilani had no natural<BR>
resistance, so that when we go to war with them in 96 years, our brave<BR>
intrepid Free Traders(tm) can sell it to the commodity-impaired slave<BR>
races of the Ziru Sirka, and so help win the Interstellar Wars without<BR>
actually using biological warfare, per se, and thereby setting the stage<BR>
for the emergence of widespread piracy in the Third Imperium, somehow.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I will not ask Kenji what the keyboard was doing in their nose.<BR>
> <BR>
> Oh, darn it Kenji! <BR>
> What was the keyboard doing in a place where it could be <BR>
> expelled through their nose?<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1669<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 4 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1670<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re Shunning LL<BR>
re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1650<BR>
re:  Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?...<BR>
Re: US 1st Amendment...<BR>
Re: The Village People <BR>
Re: Power Explosions<BR>
re: Groups<BR>
Re: The Village People<BR>
MT Sans Errata<BR>
Re Small Things<BR>
Re MT Reprints?<BR>
Re SolConfed<BR>
Re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
Devolved Aslan<BR>
COACC for Auction (Re: Megatraveller Rules)<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Old Craft<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:09:23 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Shunning LL<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
>Excuse me, but it would seem to me that everyone could set up their MAIL<BR>
>FILTERS so that whenever they ran across a post from the person in question,<BR>
>it would be automatically deleted. If your mail program was too primitive to<BR>
>have filters, you see his address, DON'T CLICK ON IT...just TRASH it.<BR>
><BR>
Won't work for those of us on Digest mode.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:16:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
>From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
>Subject: Confusing Quoting<BR>
>WARNING: THIS IS KIND OF WHINY<BR>
>It seems that a lot of people's mail programs don't use the<BR>
>convention of prepending greater-than signs (>) to quoted text <BR>
>in replies, but <BR>
<BR>
What he said.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 20:18:38 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1650<BR>
<BR>
>Glenn--<BR>
><BR>
>I don't know how you got from <BR>
><BR>
>"Doug, why don't you call the DA?  This looks like an<BR>
>interesting case" <BR>
><BR>
>to <BR>
><BR>
>"Especially if, as (the other) Glenn suggests, that a complaint<BR>
>to law-enforcement authorities is in the works..."<BR>
><BR>
>My suggestion to Doug is a very long way from an actual<BR>
>complaint to law enforcement.<BR>
<BR>
What, he's going to call the DA to chat about the weather?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:23:30 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
<BR>
>From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
<BR>
>Don't forget about Tipper Gore's book, which states:p. 118:<BR>
<BR>
>      According to Mrs. Pat Pulling, founder of the<BR>
>organization Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons, the game has <BR>
>been linked to nearly fifty teenage suicides and homicides. <BR>
>Pulling's own son killed himself in 1982 after becoming deeply <BR>
>involved in the game through his school's gifted students <BR>
>program. A fellow-player threatened him with a "death curse," <BR>
>and he killed himself in response.<BR>
<BR>
Now _that's_ role-playing! <BR>
<BR>
and he gets both an Oscar and a Darwin!<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:25:55 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
>I've been playing since 1978.  Why haven't I become a satan-<BR>
>worshipper or have killed myself yet?<BR>
<BR>
Because you're not trying hard enough?<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:18:02 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 10:09 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> LKW (which does not stand for "landkraftwagen")<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
G'arn, it doessssss...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:15:26 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jim & Peta Lawrie <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 9:51 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> >> >>    Is it so bad, that I want to see the blood of every GURPS<BR>
> >> >>player, outside of their body, in vast amounts?<BR>
> >> >Send me your address.  Now.  You are making terrorist threats<BR>
> >> >and I will *not* stand for it.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> My understanding of the present state of the law -- which may be<BR>
> >> wrong -- is that if he's making terroristic threats in violation<BR>
> >> of California law, it doesn't matter where he's sending them<BR>
> >> from, as long as they are coming somehow into California.  This<BR>
> >> is an even better case than the California adult web site owners<BR>
> >> who were prosecuted in Tennessee for violating Tennessee's<BR>
> >> obscenity laws.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> Doug, why don't you call the DA?  This looks like an interesting<BR>
> >> case.<BR>
> >> --Glenn<BR>
><BR>
>     Oh Barf! Are you guys really going to call the cops everytime a<BR>
munchie<BR>
> threatens you? I'd better unsubscribe before this becomes policy.<BR>
>     Jim<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
GURPS: Paranoia?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:40:53 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: US 1st Amendment...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 12:57 PM<BR>
Subject: US 1st Amendment (was: Re: Doug vs. LL)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The Roc wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> <<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> > PS:  OT Obs for further self-education; Don't you guys have a "Right to<BR>
free<BR>
> > speech" thing in your constitution?  Does it cover things like this?<BR>
><BR>
> **WARNING: Non-attorney layman comments follow**<BR>
><BR>
> If you're asking about death threats, then no, the 1st Amendment to the<BR>
> US Constitution does not apply.  If you're asking about annoying speech,<BR>
> then it does apply.  "Obscenity" is one of those gray areas that the<BR>
> Supreme Court seems to do its utmost to rule on definitively.  [As one<BR>
> Supreme Court Justice (I forget the name) is quoted as saying of<BR>
> obscenity, "I know it when I see it."]<BR>
><BR>
> However, other than the "equal [air] time" doctrine that has been<BR>
> applied to broadcast editorial comment from the broadcast station's<BR>
> ownership or management, there is _no_ right to a public forum for one's<BR>
> opinions, at someone else's expense.  Thus, I can write a letter to my<BR>
> local newspaper, but the paper is under no obligation to print it.  If I<BR>
> want to ensure that my views are widely disseminated, I can always start<BR>
> my own newspaper.<BR>
><BR>
> Note that syndicated political commentary (such as radio talk show host<BR>
> Rush Limbaugh's program) has not been treated as station editorial<BR>
> commentary, and has therefore not been constrained (in practice, anyway)<BR>
> by any "equal time" doctrine.<BR>
><BR>
> **WARNING:  Non-attorney comments precede**<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Okay, clarification please... your amendment is a "Restricted Free Speech"<BR>
(isn't that an oxymoron?), where you CAN say anything, BUT nothing that's to<BR>
offensive?<BR>
<BR>
And is it against the law there to threaten someone?  In Oz (and perhaps the<BR>
U.K.?), police cannot act on a threat (unless you can "pay" them to, by<BR>
being influential... but even then they can only look into it - I just got<BR>
that from the horses mouth a few minutes ago, a copper mate).<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:36:32 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People <BR>
<BR>
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
>Subject: Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! <BR>
>Legion atthe Piano!)<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, I figure that the image of Solomani as Space Nazis is<BR>
>in large part Imperial propaganda.  Sure there is a minority of<BR>
>Sollie Firsters who are Solomani racists and SolSec does keep a<BR>
>close eye on foreigners..like 3I travellers who might be agents<BR>
>..but that doesn't make the Confederation as a whole a bunch of<BR>
<BR>
>Nazis. No, not anymore than the whole Imperium is composed of <BR>
>degenerates and rabid imperialists. <wink><BR>
<BR>
Eris is obviously a SolSec agent.  Put it in his dossier.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 01:22:20 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Power Explosions<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:38:50 +0000<BR>
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
> Subject: powder explosions was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1599<BR>
> <BR>
> At 0:20 -0500 2/1/00, Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net> wrote:<BR>
> >       As I recall, just about any powered substance in Zero G and a spark<BR>
> >ought to make a really good bang. There have been more than one deadly<BR>
> >explosions in grain elevators for this reason, and I can imagine that<BR>
> >the zero-g and accelerations ought to mix the dust and air even more<BR>
> >thoroughly.<BR>
> <BR>
> Generally, the powder needs to be organic.<BR>
> <BR>
> Although there are exceptions.<BR>
> <BR>
> Dom<BR>
> <BR>
	IIRC, anything which oxidized will do nicely. Powered Magnesium and a<BR>
spark would have a very unpleasant effect inside a sealed starship,<BR>
stuck in Jump Space. <BR>
	The best Traveller reference I've seen for cargo giving PC problems is<BR>
the Hazardous Cargo article in Challenge #31. An update for GT in<BR>
Pyramid would make an interesting addition to GT:FT. <BR>
- --<BR>
	Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
	tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:51:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re: Groups<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
<BR>
>    I was wondering, what is the preferred number of players <BR>
>that GMs have and why? I've run scenarios for 15 players and <BR>
>I've run for 1 and enjoyed the game. I would have to say that I<BR>
<BR>
>prefer 3 or 4 players the most though, enough that everyone <BR>
>gets a go fairly quickly and still retain a decent input for <BR>
>problem solving and planning.<BR>
>    I have noticed that most store bought games seem to assume<BR>
>around six players, is this common?<BR>
<BR>
I've had a similar range of experiences.  One on one can be<BR>
really fun, especially if the referee can change character very<BR>
quickly (which I think I can do pretty well).  <BR>
<BR>
I find large groups (like 7+) very difficult for a few reasons. <BR>
Some players inevitably won't get to act much.  There can be a<BR>
lot of down time for players while waiting for the others to do<BR>
things.  It's hard for the referee to keep track of everything<BR>
that the PCs are doing and to help everyone stay interested.<BR>
<BR>
I find that the best group size is 3 to 5.  There are enough<BR>
players that they can interact meaningfully with one another and<BR>
they have enough resources among themselves to deal with a lot<BR>
of problems.  The referee can keep track of everything they're<BR>
doing and maintain contact with everyone all the time.  <BR>
<BR>
Not coincidentally, groups of 3 to 5 seem to form naturally at<BR>
large parties or like events (at least in my experience).<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:00:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People<BR>
<BR>
>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: The Village People<BR>
>Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote<BR>
>> In order to combine songs, flammable topics, and<BR>
>>"lifestyles", shall we have an enlightened and enlightening <BR>
>>discussion about pirates, too, perhaps?<BR>
><BR>
>How's this.<BR>
>As everyone knows many Caribbean pirates were homosexuals.<BR>
<BR>
[excellent discussion deleted]<BR>
<BR>
Someone please save this for posterity!<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:22:42 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: MT Sans Errata<BR>
<BR>
>Does anyone know if there was an edition of Megatraveller which was<BR>
>completely Errata free?  How does one identify it?  Eg. which edition,<BR>
>copyright date, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, no such beast exists, to my knowledge. Certain books have versions<BR>
with LESS erratta than others (Just look for the map on the inside over of<BR>
the Ref's Manual).<BR>
<BR>
I picked up a later release of the MT Boxed set (as a giggle) at my FLGS<BR>
last year... It included errata, printed off on a 12-pin dot-matrix<BR>
printer, then photocopied. 3-4 pages thereof.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:35:15 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Small Things<BR>
<BR>
>What is the smallest size you would imagine to be convenient for people to<BR>
>use?<BR>
<BR>
Depends upon shape. 1x3x0.2 cm is ok, so long as you're just slotting it.<BR>
(1x2 cm of grip space).<BR>
or a 2cm disk, about 0.2cm thick, assuming you drop it into a tray.<BR>
<BR>
The question of storage capacity comes into play. Assuming you could get 1<BR>
bit per 1 atom, you still have finite capacity in a unit volume, which can<BR>
be somewhat expanded with good compression algorythms.<BR>
<BR>
Also please remember, in pure ascii, you can fit most short novels on one<BR>
or two floppies (1.4mb each). Having a 1 gig removeable media the size of a<BR>
quarter is somewhat overkill for most personal uses... but I can see it<BR>
happening, and soon.<BR>
<BR>
Last tech article on the holographic crystal memory system said 1 gigabyte<BR>
per 1cm^3, with the crystals being offered in 1x1x2cm lengths. This is real<BR>
world stuff... just too bloody expensive to implement widely (US$10,000.00<BR>
for a writer/reader, and $500 for a crystal, according to the last article<BR>
I read.... before japanese export tarifs and US import tarifs). About where<BR>
CD Rom was 10 years ago.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:37:56 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re MT Reprints?<BR>
<BR>
>Hmm, I  thought  Marc  didn't  like  MT(*)  so  a  reprint  seems<BR>
>unlikely.<BR>
><BR>
>* = Which is odd considering it is the best ever version (CT  was<BR>
>    merely MT-beta, and everything else is just heresy).<BR>
<BR>
I agree! But, in case you not remember, MT was out-sourced to DGP... check<BR>
the credits! The MT revision was done by Fugate, et al, of DGP. I've heard<BR>
that MWM had almost no hand in MT at all...<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:14:11 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re SolConfed<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
>There's one problem with this IMHO. If the Solomani Party (and all<BR>
>affiliated arms thereof) are supposed to be the SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE NAZIS of<BR>
>the OTU...then this cultural ascertation of the Solomani Village People<BR>
>would run counterproductive to what Nazi Party propaganda REALLY stands for,<BR>
>for the following reasons:<BR>
<BR>
But the Solomani AREN'T Space Nazi's. They Marxist-Lenninists with a fair<BR>
dose of Trotsky.<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, tho', the Solomani Confederation bears a lot more resemblance to<BR>
the USSR: multiple local areas, all requiring internal passports. The<BR>
Secret Police having uniformed monitors (AKA Political Officers) in all<BR>
military units, plus spys there too. A large, single party, council based<BR>
government, with the real power being peacefully transferred form supreme<BR>
leader to supreme leader by confirmation of the supreme council. Extensive<BR>
medical experimentation leading to advanced medical techniques apparently<BR>
ahead of their general tech level. Reliance upon outdated technology for<BR>
their military hardware, because it is cheaper to maintain, repair,<BR>
resupply, and replace.<BR>
<BR>
The USSR also was anti-sexually-alternative, but then again, they didn't<BR>
want people having sex for pleasure, either.... It was also anti-Jew. And,<BR>
unlike the NAZI party, the Communists let many of the jews (Those who<BR>
didn't knwo too much) go, as it wasn't the nearly religious Racial Purity<BR>
issue, but the question of loyalty to an atheist state. I don't think the<BR>
SC has that "Aethism is the official religion" crap that fueled the pogroms<BR>
in the USSR.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 23:16:44 -0500<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
Outlook is defaulted to do that when you install it....<BR>
<BR>
Thom<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "SD Mooney" <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 7:16 PM<BR>
Subject: re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 14:49 -0500 4/1/00, Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com> wrote:<BR>
> >It seems that a lot of people's mail programs don't use the convention<BR>
> >of prepending greater-than signs (>) to quoted text in replies, but<BR>
> >instead use some sort of horizontal separator. This isn't a big deal<BR>
> >for single messages, as there's only one separator to look for, but<BR>
> >when reading TML in digest mode, it's very hard to tell where one<BR>
> >post ends and another begins while skimming, particularly if more<BR>
> >than a full screen's worth of material is quoted.<BR>
> <BR>
> ISTR that outlook can't do this easily? Certainly my work a/c version <BR>
> won't do it. Anyone know how?<BR>
> <BR>
> Dom<BR>
> <BR>
> ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
> "We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
> can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
> http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 23:22:04 -0500<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
<BR>
It makes you feel any better, my last computer was delivered by a crew of 4<BR>
and they needed a fork lift to get it off the truck. <weg><BR>
<BR>
Thom<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Black ICE" <wombat@premier.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 8:58 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> wrote<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > ObTrav: In many recent sf movies and shows, it is assumed that data<BR>
storage<BR>
> > > will keep getting smaller, with tiny cd-like disks having<BR>
multi-gigabyte<BR>
> > > capacities used as the norm for data transfer. But how small is too<BR>
small?<BR>
> > > This is where human design considerations come into play. When the<BR>
> > > technology to put a terabyte or three on a microdot comes into it's<BR>
own,<BR>
> > > how much wasted space must be added to make it comfortable for human<BR>
use?<BR>
> > > What is the smallest size you would imagine to be convenient for<BR>
people to<BR>
> > > use?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > In GURPS CD's shrink to dime size & stay that way (at<BR>
> > TL 9 IIRC). This is too small & makes them too easy to<BR>
> > loose & too hard to label. I'd say the smallest practical<BR>
> > size is somewhere in the US Silver Dollar to credit<BR>
> > card size.<BR>
><BR>
> Personally, I think that the size of the average digital watch (a pretty<BR>
> neat idea in itself!) is a good size for a few terabytes of data.<BR>
> Ideally, one datachip the size of a digital watch should hold enough<BR>
> data to equal the sum of all knowledge (including things that _haven't<BR>
> even been discovered yet_!).<BR>
><BR>
> Then again, I won't be truly satisfied until I own a computer that dims<BR>
> streetlights and shrinks TV screens for kilometers around when I turn my<BR>
> machine on....<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
> "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
> Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 22:29:04 -0600<BR>
From: "shadowcat" <meow@advancenet.net><BR>
Subject: Devolved Aslan<BR>
<BR>
Those aren't "things", those are devolved Aslan.  They were kidnapped by<BR>
the Village People and subjected to hideous Solomani genetic experiments<BR>
before being rescued by Hivers, who were taking a break from playing Quake<BR>
and went out in search of corn dogs from the nearest 7-11.<BR>
<BR>
I have a dainty little 35 pound Maine Coon/Barncat mix, that doesnt <BR>
think hes god, he knows hes god... the village people gave up after <BR>
a large firefight with Fafrhd and the rest of his war clan of 13 more <BR>
maine coon mix cats. our neighbors are so nice they got him a new<BR>
mobile cat toy for christmas, its a yappy little mexican rat dog.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow/faf.jpg<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Shadowcat AKA Kevin Walsh<BR>
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf<BR>
ADD/ADHD Advocate<BR>
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 23:47:33 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: COACC for Auction (Re: Megatraveller Rules)<BR>
<BR>
At 09:05 PM 1/4/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
>Subject: Re: Megatraveller Rules<BR>
><BR>
>>Well, I have all the MT rules in Word format. I created them from the<BR>
>>printed manuals, and added most of the errata fixes to them.<BR>
>>A while back I got permission from Marc Miller to distribute ten copies<BR>
>>of them to members of this list (and one copy to him).<BR>
>>If you get permissions from him, I'll send them to you.<BR>
>>--<BR>
>>Erwin Fritz<BR>
><BR>
>    Whoa! (Treasure trove scented)<BR>
>    Is this just the core rules, the first three books? If not I'd be very<BR>
>interested in getting a copy of those impossible-to-get books. COACC is<BR>
>something I've been looking for left, right and centre. There was a few<BR>
>others I can't get a hold of. Maybe we should ask Marc if its all right to<BR>
>get a copy in a group?<BR>
<BR>
Is it really hard to get?   No one wanted the copy of COACC I was trying to<BR>
auction off last month.  I'll reopen bidding on it if anyone wants it.<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:16:56 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>> Kiri wrote (to Doug?)<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>>> As a member of the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community,<BR>
>>>>><BR>
>>>> I'd no idea that you were Family.  =)<BR>
>>>><BR>
>>> I had no idea (and didn't care at all) either. <BR>
>>> But it changes nothing. <BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Y'see Kiri... we're all Family. Humans.<BR>
>><BR>
>> "It's not my planet, monkey-boy!"<BR>
>><BR>
>> <oops, there goes the cover.... :-) ><BR>
<BR>
> Work for Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, do you Leonard?<BR>
> :)<BR>
<BR>
<hiding coffeemug with Yoyodyne logo[1]><BR>
<BR>
Whatever gave you *that* idea?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[1]yes, I actually own one. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:45:14 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Old Craft<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> This brings me to another thought; a buddy of mine serves on what is<BR>
> purpotedly the oldest military hull in regular US service, CGC Storres.<BR>
> Built in 1946, IIRC (I know it was the 1940's, post WWII), with an aluminum<BR>
> hull. Apparently, some schmoe was carrying a breaker bar (4-8 feet of metal<BR>
> bar), slipped, and punched through the hull of one of the Storres sister<BR>
> ships with said breaker bar.<BR>
><BR>
> Now admitedly, oceanic service will carry away more metal than vaccum<BR>
> service, but just how much loss ARE we going to see on some 50-100 YO Type<BR>
> R or Type A. Or Worse, on a Type S. And simple metal fatigue resulting in<BR>
> increased brittleness?<BR>
<BR>
Not a lot. And keep in mind that starting at around TL-10, we are<BR>
dealing with advanced *composite* materialds, which just plain don't<BR>
fail in the ways metals do. They have their *own* failure modes, which<BR>
are quite different. <BR>
<BR>
As an example, one possible failure mode is extensive "delamination".<BR>
That's where the "fiber" portion of the material comes unbonded from<BR>
the "matrix" portion over a relatively large area. With rather<BR>
unpleasant results in space or underwater. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:53:44 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:48 PM 1/3/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>All of it sounds good to me!!!  Dammit, it's almost bedtime and here I am<BR>
>>craving some SERIOUS barbeque!!!!!!!!<BR>
>><BR>
>>I know BayCon has Party Floors, I wonder if they have BBQ Floors?  :D<BR>
><BR>
> Well, Disclave has B&D floors...<BR>
<BR>
But the sprinklers are *not* to be used as suspension points! :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1670<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1671</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 5 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1671<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Fashion and Art in the 3I.<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1665<BR>
Re: Re SolConfed<BR>
Re: Re SolConfed<BR>
Re: The Village People<BR>
RE: Family<BR>
Re Small Things<BR>
Re: computer versions of rules<BR>
Re Groups<BR>
Old<BR>
Re: Re Groups<BR>
Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
Re Tipper's Book<BR>
Re: Groups<BR>
Re: Re LKW<BR>
Re: Internal Strife (was Re CCG's and Elementary Schools)<BR>
Re: New use for LEGO<BR>
Re: The Village People<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:59:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fashion and Art in the 3I.<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Concerning specific fashions and styles, it's really up to you. Someone did<BR>
>> do an Imperial KiSS[1] quite some time ago. I've lost it, and I've never<BR>
>> seen it on any KiSS doll pages. I think it contained mostly adventuring <BR>
>> type outfits.<BR>
<BR>
> It might have been Jo Grant, who (IIRC) was fairly active in the old<BR>
> discussion on TravLang.  Not sure if he's still around.<BR>
<BR>
I've got a copy around here somewhere...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:03:04 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >>I know BayCon has Party Floors, I wonder if they have BBQ Floors?  :D<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Well, Disclave has B&D floors...<BR>
> <BR>
> But the sprinklers are *not* to be used as suspension points! :-)<BR>
<BR>
What if you're _into_ water sports?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:13:45 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1665<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:15:34 -0500<BR>
>From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Religion and RPGs (was T5 vs. GURPS)<BR>
><BR>
>|'ve been playing since 1978.  Why haven't I become a satan-worshipper or<BR>
>have killed myself yet?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Actually we all have. But a lot of people thought that was to dark a setting<BR>
so SJG brought us back in an alternate timeline. <grin><BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
Veni, Vidi, Vaca.<BR>
I came, I saw, I had a cow<BR>
  - Bart Caeser<BR>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:07:23 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Re SolConfed<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> issue, but the question of loyalty to an atheist state. I don't think the<BR>
> SC has that "Aethism is the official religion" crap that fueled the pogroms<BR>
> in the USSR.<BR>
<BR>
I think, according to DGP's _Solomani & Aslan_ & TD articles, the Party<BR>
and factions of the Secretariat actually pushing a certain religion which<BR>
I can't remember the name of. <BR>
<BR>
(I also think -- see? I'm taking the list's advice, or pretending to --<BR>
that technically, there weren't any _pogroms_ under the Soviet regime.<BR>
Purges are different.  Ask your local SolSec Monitor for an educational<BR>
pamphlet-cum-request form.)<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:07:23 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Re SolConfed<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> issue, but the question of loyalty to an atheist state. I don't think the<BR>
> SC has that "Aethism is the official religion" crap that fueled the pogroms<BR>
> in the USSR.<BR>
<BR>
I think, according to DGP's _Solomani & Aslan_ & TD articles, the Party<BR>
and factions of the Secretariat actually pushing a certain religion which<BR>
I can't remember the name of. <BR>
<BR>
(I also think -- see? I'm taking the list's advice, or pretending to --<BR>
that technically, there weren't any _pogroms_ under the Soviet regime.<BR>
Purges are different.  Ask your local SolSec Monitor for an educational<BR>
pamphlet-cum-request form.)<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:09:55 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People<BR>
<BR>
Okay, I made myself read this slowly, to savor it and not freak out at how<BR>
badly I've been outclassed, which also means that Mssr. Newman scored<BR>
multiple 2.0 hits on me.  I was shushed twice by an angry<BR>
computer-lab-mate.<BR>
<BR>
Once I was the master, now I am the student...<BR>
<BR>
Anyone want to set up a Trav game, FTF or PBEM, set in such a Traveller<BR>
Universe?  <BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote<BR>
> <BR>
> > In order to combine songs, flammable topics, and "lifestyles", shall we<BR>
> > have an enlightened and enlightening discussion about pirates, too,<BR>
> > perhaps?<BR>
> <BR>
> How's this.<BR>
> <BR>
> As everyone knows many Caribbean pirates were homosexuals.<BR>
> <BR>
> This proves that Piracy attracts homosexuals.<BR>
> <BR>
> Therefore many Imperial Pirates will be homosexuals.<BR>
> <BR>
> Given that all homosexuals stick together as part of<BR>
> the gay Mafia it is therefore obvious that Norris, who<BR>
> is obviously gay himself, has ordered that they be left <BR>
> alone.<BR>
> <BR>
> Therefore Piracy is obviously running rampant [double <BR>
> entendre is deliberate] in the Spinward Marches. <BR>
> <BR>
> And what about Dulinor? Ever seen pictures of the man?<BR>
> Look at him! He's an obvious leather boy. Look at the<BR>
> fact that he always wears all black outfits. Look at his <BR>
> ugly, 20 years older, fag hag wife. Look at his gun fetish. <BR>
> Obviously Dulinor's assassination of Strephon was just a <BR>
> lovers quarrel.<BR>
> <BR>
> And what about Strephon? Did you ever wonder just what<BR>
> Strephon saw in the (much younger) Dulinor that made<BR>
> Strephon elevate Dulinor to an Archdutchy? Kind of makes<BR>
> you wonder about what else was getting elevated back at<BR>
> Capitol? Did you ever wonder why Strephon got married<BR>
> so young? To protect the succession, _right_. Or was it<BR>
> to stop the rumors? Strephon figured "Hey getting married<BR>
> worked so well to stop the gay rumors for all those<BR>
> Solomani movie stars. It should work for me."<BR>
> <BR>
> Did you ever wonder if all those high nobles in Traveller<BR>
> had clones made so that when someone told them to go<BR>
> F*** themselves they could do it?<BR>
> <BR>
> What about the Scouts? All those brave explorers<BR>
> in the Exploration branch bravely going where no<BR>
> man has gone before? All those prissy queens in the<BR>
> X-boat service who spend their lives dishing gossip, er,<BR>
> delivering the male, er mail? And what about Scout Brew?<BR>
> "Oh I did not really mean to sleep with another guy,<BR>
> I was too drunk on Scout Brew to know what I was doing"<BR>
> How _convenient_.<BR>
> <BR>
> And what about the Navy? A Navy based on Terran<BR>
> Navies. Including the Royal Navy, whose three great<BR>
> traditions [According to Sir Winston Churchill, who<BR>
> admitted to him own same sex experimentation's] were<BR>
> "Rum, Sodomy, and the lash." Well I think we know<BR>
> what sort of men you will find "In The Navy" don't we?<BR>
> <BR>
> And what about the Marines, those big strong, butch<BR>
> super warriors who have to put on a big, hard, metal<BR>
> suit over every part of their body to make themselves<BR>
> get ready to f***, er to fight. <BR>
> <BR>
> What about the Merchants? A whole class based on the<BR>
> notion that "Money changes everything." Obviously<BR>
> the Merchants are nothing but a bunch of interstellar<BR>
> rent boys, peddling their sad little asses across the<BR>
> universe.<BR>
> <BR>
> And what about the "Others" the sixth of CT's classes.<BR>
> Ever wonder just why it was CT never defined just <BR>
> what the Others did and why so many of them ended up<BR>
> with Streetwise skill? Ever realize how all the others<BR>
> are all in the closet about whatever it is they like<BR>
> to do to, er, earn a living?<BR>
> <BR>
> What about the fact that as the player characters get<BR>
> older their services thrust them out into the cold<BR>
> cruel world and replace them with younger [prettier]<BR>
> ones? The services just represent sugar daddy's who have<BR>
> grown tired of the PC's.<BR>
> <BR>
> And what about Vargr? We all know male dogs will<BR>
> screw other male dogs to prove their dominance. Well<BR>
> what about Archduke Bzrk? How many lesser Vargr has<BR>
> he taken? Just what services did he offer Strephon?<BR>
> <BR>
> And what about those Hivers? Admitted bisexuals every <BR>
> single one of them.<BR>
> <BR>
> And what about those Aslan. Three times as many women<BR>
> as men? Obviously the Aslan are the token lesbians<BR>
> in the otherwise completely male homosexual future<BR>
> [We will not discuss that obvious lesbian Margaret<BR>
> much merely noting her turkey-baster kids should <BR>
> cover it.]<BR>
> <BR>
> And what about those K'Kree? In their society women<BR>
> have no role. Instead everything is decided by the<BR>
> men - just like in ancient Greece, that hotbed of<BR>
> homosexuality.<BR>
> <BR>
> What about the Zhondani? Did you ever stop to think<BR>
> about just what those turbans really symbolize?<BR>
> All those Zhodani want you to know that they have big<BR>
> bulbous heads. And what about Psionics? Did you ever<BR>
> stop to think about what knowing everyones inner<BR>
> fantasies really means?<BR>
> <BR>
> And what about the Moot Spire? It's nothing but a giant<BR>
> dildo more than a mile high. Only the Moot Spire can be<BR>
> higher than the Imperial Palace. The Imperial Palace<BR>
> used to be a tall pointy spikey thing but is now a big<BR>
> ball with two smaller balls floating next to it.<BR>
> Hmmmmm....<BR>
> <BR>
> How the f*** did the Imperium get to have trillions<BR>
> of inhabitants when everyone in it is gay? Thank goodness <BR>
> for high-tech medicine.<BR>
> <BR>
> And what about the secret mastermind of the Traveller<BR>
> Universe, Yaskodray? Did you ever notice that he had<BR>
> only sons, and grandsons? Obvious homosexual incest<BR>
> right there. And what about Yaskodray's "children" the<BR>
> Droyne, just what sort of sexual perversions do they<BR>
> participate in? <BR>
> <BR>
> The fact that this is largely undiscussed in canon sources<BR>
> is obviously a Templar plot.<BR>
> <BR>
> Obviously all of Traveller is just one long extended<BR>
> metaphor for homosexuality, primarily male homosexuality.<BR>
> <BR>
> Obviously all you Traveller fans who claim to be straight<BR>
> just do not realize your own personal hidden homosexual<BR>
> yearnings. Yearnings you can not admit to yourselves so<BR>
> you sublimate them through role playing, through<BR>
> _pretending_ to be someone else.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ever wonder just why it is you are hanging out on a<BR>
> 99.5% male Traveller Mailing List? <BR>
> <BR>
> Anyone who disagrees with me in any way is obviously<BR>
> 100% wrong. :)<BR>
> <BR>
> Discuss.<BR>
> <BR>
> [With profound apologies to anyone who actually wrote<BR>
> any canon and who is straight identified.]<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 21:06:16 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Family<BR>
<BR>
ROFL!!!  Always wanted to do that!<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Goffin<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 6:09 PM<BR>
To: traveller mailing aa list<BR>
Subject: RE: Family<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
<BR>
>Work for Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, do you Leonard?:)<BR>
<BR>
>>On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>
[deletion]<BR>
>>"It's not my planet, monkey-boy!"<BR>
><oops, there goes the cover.... :-) <BR>
<BR>
In my Traveller Universe, Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems is a<BR>
wholly owned subsidiary of GsBAG LIC.  I've made some business<BR>
cards for myself as corporate counsel.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 21:23:16 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com><BR>
Subject: Re Small Things<BR>
<BR>
"William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Also please remember, in pure ascii, you can fit most short novels on one<BR>
>or two floppies (1.4mb each). Having a 1 gig removeable media the size <BR>
>of a quarter is somewhat overkill for most personal uses... but I can see it<BR>
>happening, and soon.<BR>
<BR>
Except for video data.  It still takes several gig to hold 1 hour of video<BR>
info.  Boost the resolution some and a really fancy VR system might even<BR>
take between 10 and 50 gig/hour.  However, I doubt we'll ever been needing<BR>
more than 1 terabyte chips/disks/cards for personal storage.  20-200 hours<BR>
of video footage should be enough for any normal use (like a fancy video<BR>
cam or VR cam). <BR>
<BR>
IMTU such things are standard.  As long as you avoid sentient AIs and say<BR>
(as MT did) that datajacks and similar cyberware really don't improve<BR>
significantly upon normal performance (a reasonable idea in the absence of<BR>
all RW data) then the Imperium still looks pretty much like the one we<BR>
know and love. Sure, computers are cheaper, and *way* smaller, but I<BR>
honestly don't see that as an important change. <BR>
<BR>
For an example, imagine using the computer & electronics tech from Vernor<BR>
Vinge's (excellent) novel _A Deepness in the Sky_ with the Imperium.  That<BR>
way you have a nice Travelleresque feel w/o silly 70s electronics.  I<BR>
don't see that Traveller needs lousy computers, as long as it avoids<BR>
various transhuman technologies like AI and direct neural interfaces. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com  <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 22:51:42 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: computer versions of rules<BR>
<BR>
There is the HIWG is playing a CD ROM of all the GDW printed stuff. or<BR>
several CD roms.<BR>
I think hypertext is part of the production as well as plan text.<BR>
not really sure something I heard about last year with there trav CD ROM<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: GaryBartz@aol.com <GaryBartz@aol.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 3:05 PM<BR>
Subject: computer versions of rules<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>You know what would be great?<BR>
>All the CT books in hypertext........<BR>
>since there is some money to be made on printing the old books, though,<BR>
that<BR>
>will remain a dream.<BR>
><BR>
>In a message dated 1/4/00 1:23:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,<BR>
>owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
><BR>
><< Well, I have all the MT rules in Word format. I created them from the<BR>
> printed manuals, and added most of the errata fixes to them.<BR>
><BR>
> A while back I got permission from Marc Miller to distribute ten copies<BR>
> of them to members of this list (and one copy to him). >><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:28:32 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Groups<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:16:38 +1100<BR>
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
>Subject: Groups<BR>
><BR>
>    I was wondering, what is the preferred number of players that GMs have<BR>
>and why?<BR>
[snip]<BR>
Depends upon the group. But, as a rule, I won't run for less than 3<BR>
players, as I can't get enough feedback off of two players to run a game<BR>
***I*** am happy with. In general, a group of 4-8 is my prefferred size. I<BR>
shoot for 6 players, typically, but often allow 2 extra players who just<BR>
can't wait.<BR>
<BR>
>    I have noticed that most store bought games seem to assume around six<BR>
>players, is this common?<BR>
>    Jim<BR>
Most tournament modules I've run (TSR written, mostly) assume 6 players.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:32:33 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Old<BR>
<BR>
Peter Newman replys thusly to Kenji:<BR>
>Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> It's a delight to see all the old pervs<BR>
><BR>
>I'm only 33, that's not old.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but you have complained about feeling old recently....<BR>
And you're older than I, and I am starting to feel old.<BR>
<BR>
So, now shift your defense to something along the lines of "I'm no perv."<BR>
<BR>
>> come crawling out of the network,<BR>
>> all their inappropriate talents honed and glittering.<BR>
><BR>
>It's semester break & I have the time, I promise to<BR>
>unsubscribe by the end of the week.<BR>
<BR>
Such a shame.... <aside to Peter> BTW, Finished reading all the books. When<BR>
shoudl I try to get them to you? </aside><BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 23:52:49 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Groups<BR>
<BR>
On 01/04/00 at 11:47 PM,  "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>    I was wondering, what is the preferred number of players that GMs have<BR>
>>and why?<BR>
<BR>
>[snip]<BR>
<BR>
>Depends upon the group. <BR>
<BR>
And on the players in the group.<BR>
<BR>
>But, as a rule, I won't run for less than 3 players, as I can't get<BR>
>enough feedback off of two players to run a game ***I*** am happy<BR>
>with.<BR>
<BR>
I've run sessions with 1 and 2 players, but for anything longterm 3<BR>
to 5 is a better number, I think.<BR>
<BR>
>In general, a group of 4-8 is my prefferred size.<BR>
>I shoot for 6 players, typically, but often allow 2 extra players who<BR>
>just can't wait.<BR>
<BR>
I've got 8 currently in my PBEM and to be honest that's pushing it<BR>
for me. <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:41:46 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Matthew Bond <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 9:18 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>-----Original Message-----<BR>
>From: Chauncey Smith <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
>To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
>Date: 04 January 2000 18:10<BR>
>Subject: Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
><BR>
Cut out are my opening statements<BR>
<BR>
>Yeah, and those nice boys in Colorado didn't really mean the things they<BR>
>said online, or on their web pages. No-one really *believed* that they'd<BR>
>show up at school with more armament than Mad Max on a bad day.<BR>
><BR>
I was assuming that the ppl on this list are sane.. and adults that know<BR>
what they are doing.<BR>
not a bunch of suburn kids with parents that don't know how to be parents.<BR>
if we assume as I have that threat is really can be taken light ly.<BR>
<BR>
>Now, don't get me wrong, not everything people post represents their true<BR>
>intentions/beliefs (I hope...), and I for one believe LL was exercising<BR>
>hyperbole with his posts.<BR>
><BR>
>However, as Doug pointed out, too many people have suffered in reality to<BR>
be<BR>
>oblivious to such statements. If LL had come back, apologised, and said<BR>
>forex "Ok folks, sorry 'bout that, just blowing off some steam.  I just<BR>
don'<BR>
>t like the game, company, or customers, but that's just me." then fair<BR>
>enough.<BR>
><BR>
>But instead he came back with some rant about seeing Gurps players/writers<BR>
>blood on the outside of  their bodies.<BR>
><BR>
>LL brought this on himself. What happens next I dunno... but I don't think<BR>
>inflammatory remarks on Usenet are necessarily trivial, as you appear to.<BR>
><BR>
yes they are trivial... the only way it changes is if you know where I live.<BR>
there are far to many gurps players for this to happen think really.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:57:11 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Tipper's Book<BR>
<BR>
>>Don't forget about Tipper Gore's book, which states:p. 118:<BR>
><BR>
>>      According to Mrs. Pat Pulling, founder of the<BR>
>>organization Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons, the game has<BR>
>>been linked to nearly fifty teenage suicides and homicides.<BR>
>>Pulling's own son killed himself in 1982 after becoming deeply<BR>
>>involved in the game through his school's gifted students<BR>
>>program. A fellow-player threatened him with a "death curse,"<BR>
>>and he killed himself in response.<BR>
<BR>
An every documented case I have read, there was some history of mental<BR>
illness in all the gaming-suicides.<BR>
<BR>
I know of one case the local right-wingers tried to pick up on...<BR>
I ejected a player from a 3-day SFB event on day 2, for cheating. He<BR>
committed suicide that evening. Had I not been a close personal friend, I<BR>
wouldn't have been able to point out he was not stable to begin with<BR>
(Bipolar, on meds), and that the straw that broke his will to live came<BR>
later that day... when he got home early, he overheard his WIFE talking<BR>
about how great her sex life was... Gary had been complaining to me about<BR>
not having a sex life for several months.... He shot himself through the<BR>
heart.<BR>
<BR>
It's been over 7 years now, and I still miss Gary. He was an avid gamer,<BR>
and a fan of MegaTraveller. Gaming was not an issue, but without <Paul<BR>
Harvey Mode> the Rest of the Story</paul Harvey mode>, easily could be<BR>
blamed.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 01:06:31 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Groups<BR>
<BR>
From: Jim & Peta Lawrie <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>     I was wondering, what is the preferred number of players that<BR>
> GMs have and why?<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I think that 4 players and 1 GM is best. I think that once the<BR>
players get to 5 or 6 things like combats get a little unruly and the group<BR>
seems less focused. The best games I've run, however, have been those with<BR>
myself and my brother as GMs.<BR>
<BR>
>     I have noticed that most store bought games seem to assume<BR>
> around six players, is this common?<BR>
<BR>
Yes. Unfortunately, most of the games I've run have five to seven players.<BR>
Most of the games I've played in have had five to seven players. When the<BR>
group gets to the size of six or more, I usually start trying trying to find<BR>
a second GM.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 06:25:11 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re LKW<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:32:05 -0900, "William F. Hostman"<BR>
<aramis@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>LKW = Last Keyboard Working<BR>
><BR>
LKW = Little Known Wisdom<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
<BR>
"Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you when you sleep<BR>
 Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;<BR>
 An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit<BR>
 Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.<BR>
        Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"<BR>
        But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll-<BR>
        The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,<BR>
        O it's "Thin red line of  'eroes" when the drums begin to roll."<BR>
                                               -"Tommy" by Rudyard Kipling<BR>
<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-<BR>
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 01:34:46 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Internal Strife (was Re CCG's and Elementary Schools)<BR>
<BR>
From: Stuart Bailey <sbailey@infoblox.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I urge you (if the topic interests you), and anyone who is interested<BR>
> in a non-destructive forum for GT that will foster growth and interest<BR>
> in that aspect of gaming, to help make the XBOAT list better by<BR>
> sending a blank message to xboat-subscribe@egroups.com and<BR>
> contributing in a positive manner.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, the last couple of days are *not* the way things usually<BR>
are. I have been much funnier and wittier than usual. Most of the nastiness<BR>
boils down to the posts of one person.<BR>
<BR>
The TML is anything *but* destructive most of the time.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 22:49:40 -0800<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: New use for LEGO<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On a more serious note, however, those coming to the January FFW/BL meeting<BR>
> at Kristen's will get a chance to build and use alternatives to the usual<BR>
> miniatures for use in the BL game, courtesy of my vacation visit to LEGOLAND<BR>
> California.<BR>
> <BR>
> Luther<BR>
<BR>
Thanks Luther,<BR>
<BR>
I'll take this time to plug the Traveller Board Game meet on January 22.<BR>
It's in San Jose near the junction of I-680 and Highway 101.  We start <BR>
at 11:00.  Email me for directions at travellerne@3rd-imperium.com.<BR>
<BR>
This month we're featuring:<BR>
Brilliant Lances with miniatures (and maybe Legos!),<BR>
Fifth Frontier War,<BR>
AND pictures of Luther's trip to Legoland!  :-)<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:24:08 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People<BR>
<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> As everyone knows many Caribbean pirates were homosexuals.<BR>
><BR>
> This proves that Piracy attracts homosexuals.<BR>
><BR>
> Therefore many Imperial Pirates will be homosexuals.<BR>
><BR>
> Given that all homosexuals stick together as part of<BR>
> the gay Mafia it is therefore obvious that Norris, who<BR>
> is obviously gay himself, has ordered that they be left<BR>
> alone.<BR>
<BR>
Peter, this one is quite literally off the scale. Every single time I<BR>
thought I might stop laughing I started the next paragraph. You have set a<BR>
record, in my book. Unfortunately, I was already all "laughed out"[1] before<BR>
I started reading this. I'm sure I would have had tears running down my<BR>
cheeks and aching cheeks after reading this post.<BR>
<BR>
[1] Earlier this evening I was at this local dive bar. In this bar there is<BR>
a video game called "Shootout", which *appears* to be nothing more than a<BR>
substandard pool game. However, my brother insisted I watch the demo-mode.<BR>
After the demo is done, I discovered that there was actually backstory.<BR>
There is an ObTrav because I'm going to *use* this gem in my Traveller<BR>
campaign. The backstory to the game is something along these lines:<BR>
<BR>
"There is a story which is told only in hushed whispers. Most people<BR>
consider it nothing more than an urban legend... It is said that there is a<BR>
secret pool hall where the best players meet to test their skill. It can be<BR>
reached by a hidden elevator, which is also an 8-Ball. If you know the<BR>
secret password you can enter. The owner of the pool hall is said to be the<BR>
best player. He is rarely seen, and then only in shadow. Little is known of<BR>
this reclusive shark except that he is often seen in the company of robots."<BR>
<BR>
I *love* the Japanese.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1671<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1672</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 5 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1672<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
[BITS] New Products now at Warehouse 23<BR>
A letter from the front...<BR>
Re: Turbolifts<BR>
Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
Aliens and Re: "Family"<BR>
Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality<BR>
Re: Aliens and Re: "Family"<BR>
Re: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
RE: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
RE: Confusing Quoting<BR>
Re: computer versions of rules<BR>
Re: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
Re: Stupid Emperors of the 3I<BR>
Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!<BR>
The OT Flame War Postings<BR>
Re: The Village People<BR>
Re: MT Sans Errata<BR>
RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re:Quotations<BR>
Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 07:35:47 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
>What if you're _into_ water sports?<BR>
<BR>
I somehow get the impression that Kenji's water sports have NOTHING to do <BR>
with jetskiing and windsurfing.....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
<BR>
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:57:05 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: [BITS] New Products now at Warehouse 23<BR>
<BR>
BITS - British Isles Traveller Support<BR>
http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
<BR>
Just a quick note to let you know that I checked Warehouse 23 this <BR>
afternoon at SJG and they now have the two new BITS adventures *for <BR>
all Traveller editions* "The Khiidkar Incident" and "SpaceDogs!", <BR>
plus copies of Tim Collinson's "The Traveller Bibliography" which <BR>
lets you find out about almost anything Traveller has ever had <BR>
published.<BR>
<BR>
Warehouse 23 is at http://www.warehouse23.com/<BR>
<BR>
Enjoy,<BR>
<BR>
Dom (BITS webmaster)<BR>
<BR>
PS I will be extending the duration of the adventure we are giving <BR>
away's stay on the archive page, as I have just realised that there <BR>
is not direct link for non-frames browsers. As a result I will update <BR>
the site and enable a link for a short while. Thanks to Leonard for <BR>
spotting this one.<BR>
- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------<BR>
                  BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.<BR>
  http://www.bits.org.uk/              mailto:bits@bits.org.uk<BR>
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.<BR>
BITS and CORE are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 03:25:51 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: A letter from the front...<BR>
<BR>
I was just reading, in a recent issue of the New Yorker, some letters home<BR>
from various wars. I thought it might be an interesting exercise to write<BR>
one from an Imperial soldier. Here it goes:<BR>
<BR>
 Hi Love,<BR>
<BR>
    I hope this letter finds you well. I'm here, in the thick of it in the<BR>
Spinward Marches, but I can't tell you any more than that, Imperial<BR>
regulations. Why bother writing it if they're going to censor it?<BR>
<BR>
    When they tell you about soldiering, they never tell you how much<BR>
waiting you're going to do. I knew that each jump takes a week before I<BR>
signed up. I just never realized how quickly those weeks add up until you<BR>
crawl your way to the front. I guess that's why the ships we travel on have<BR>
the latest entertainment equipment. They've got every holovid you can<BR>
imagine! It's really amazing. After you've spent two or three months in<BR>
jump, you almost forget that you're heading toward the front.<BR>
<BR>
    When we landed at the port it was like stepping into another dimension.<BR>
I was kind of surprised, I figured that it should at least look like a war<BR>
was going on. There were some nasty burn marks, a few craters, and a little<BR>
structural damage, but for the most part the buildings at the starport<BR>
looked pretty much like those at any other. From what I've been told, the<BR>
techs are the first ones in after the Marines, and they fix the place up<BR>
pretty good.<BR>
<BR>
    I don't envy the Marines though. They have a tough time of it, even in<BR>
the suits they wear. We're just mopping up, but even then, the jobs<BR>
dangerous. After all, you never know when you're going to come across a<BR>
functioning bot. The Joe commandos creep me out the most though. You never<BR>
know when your buddy's gonna pull a pin, or when the guy behind you is going<BR>
to let a few rip into your back. Fortunately, nothing like that's happened<BR>
to us yet, but it has made us all really jumpy. Target ID has become a<BR>
really important issue for us. After all, nobody wants to blast some poor<BR>
sap farmer taking a shortcut through the woods, but nobody wants to have<BR>
Zhodani commandos nearby either.<BR>
    The bots are pretty spooky too. We've come across a couple of dead ones,<BR>
but you never know if they're really dead, or if they're just disabled, or<BR>
if it's part of their program to act disabled. We came up on one in a forest<BR>
and it put up a pretty good fight. It blasted some poor trooper's torso<BR>
right off, I didn't know the girl though. After we blasted the thing to bits<BR>
I had a malfunction with the helmet of my combat armor. The smell of burning<BR>
plastic and flesh was just horrible. I hope that little Deshinami doesn't<BR>
never has to smell anything like that in her life. I can't imagine how<BR>
anyone could bear fighting without combat armor. There are plenty of things<BR>
out there that can rip right through it, but it does keep smells out.<BR>
    We ran into a Joe in battle dress with a fusion gun. He was hiding in<BR>
the basement of a warehouse that looked like it had been through hell. I<BR>
can't express how glad I am that the poor bastard ran out of ammo after<BR>
three shots. His weapon was brutal down there in that cramped basement. We<BR>
got the guy, but it was tough going. He was dead on with his second shot and<BR>
reduced a guy I sort of knew to a real mess. There was some splash from the<BR>
third shot that did a number on a girl a little ahead of me, but she'll pull<BR>
through. It was pretty bad, but these army medics can do some amazing<BR>
things.<BR>
    I don't have much to say otherwise, except that I miss you so much, and<BR>
I really can't wait to get back an play with Deshinami and Nushushu. Tell<BR>
them their daddy loves 'em. I hope this thing ends fast so that I can head<BR>
back home. I guess when I do head back I'll get to watch a lot of holovids.<BR>
I wonder how many vid reviewers are ex-military, anyway? Tell your mother<BR>
that I send my regards.<BR>
<BR>
 Love Always,<BR>
 Shiin<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:32:50 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Turbolifts<BR>
<BR>
Smith, Walter wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The difference: Inertial Compensators are applying an equal and<BR>
> opposite force to any acceleration. Thus, a ship capable of 6G<BR>
> acceleration should have grav plates in every part of the ship<BR>
> capable of slamming boarders into bulkheads at 6G, without ever<BR>
> moving the ship. Even a Free Trader should be able to turn any<BR>
> corridor into a deadly bottomless pit by turning off the gravity<BR>
> and reversing the inertial comp every couple of seconds.<BR>
<BR>
Yep.... This maneuver is called Grav Pong.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:36:54 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Like *any* of you people could procure a "sweet young thing", on list or<BR>
> off!  Hahahahahahahahahaha!<BR>
<BR>
Now that was plain cruel.....<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 03:51:19 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Aliens and Re: "Family"<BR>
<BR>
>Was it you or Kenji that came up with that classic line a couple<BR>
>of years back? - "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body!"<BR>
<BR>
 Gallagher (the increasingly hairless comedian), over 20 years ago...<BR>
<BR>
 "Maybe there's a woman's spirit trapped in my body, and I don't know it <BR>
'cause she's a lesbian!"<BR>
<BR>
 In an odd way, this brings up a question that echoes someone yesterday: The <BR>
two most recent versions of Traveller are well stocked with alien races not <BR>
seen before. Has anyone done the conversions into older editions of any of <BR>
these?<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:30:42 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality<BR>
<BR>
> From: J2K<BR>
> Today I happened to observe three kids watching some cartoon about<BR>
> penguins (pebble and penguin or something like it). At one poin the<BR>
> eldest (and wisest?) begun explaining to the others that the penguines<BR>
> weren't real. He had come to the conclusion that not everything in tv is<BR>
> for real, and these penguines were one of these things. Then he noted to<BR>
> the others that they were really humans, made to look like penguines with<BR>
> tv tricks.<BR>
 <BR>
Sounds like an unsuppressed sighting of the Men in Black and White!<BR>
<BR>
> (Does all this mean that my reality anchor really wasn't all that<BR>
> Y2K-proof? Or does it just need new batteries?)<BR>
<BR>
Funny, I thought reality anchors were GTL 8 technology....<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 09:47:41 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Aliens and Re: "Family"<BR>
<BR>
>  In an odd way, this brings up a question that echoes someone >yesterday: <BR>
>The two most recent versions of Traveller are well stocked >with alien <BR>
>races not seen before. Has anyone done the conversions >into older editions <BR>
>of any of these?<BR>
<BR>
I use the Controlled from T4 as sometime villains/sometime heroes in CT<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
<BR>
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:03:59 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:23:57 +1100<BR>
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
<BR>
>>Assuming this is becuase belters spend time in zero G (which most<BR>
>>spacer, in fact, would seldom do), long hair isn't really much of<BR>
>>a problem im zero G.  A number of female astronauts have long hair....<BR>
><BR>
>    It may be the Larry Niven "Belter Strip"<BR>
<BR>
????<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:38:05 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
> Doesn't everybody just wear black tshirts and jeans, except when<BR>
> they're wearing camouflage?<BR>
<BR>
No, some people also wear leather trenchcoats, y'know, the ones you can hide<BR>
an two uzis, an automatic shotgun and a LAW in.<BR>
<BR>
And the sunglasses, don't forget the sunglasses.<BR>
<BR>
A few er, strange, people wear white leather trencoats and suits instead,<BR>
and a small minority prefer the Don Johnson look.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:41:36 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> ISTR that outlook can't do this easily? Certainly my work a/c version<BR>
> won't do it. Anyone know how?<BR>
<BR>
Outlook does it very easily, I'm using Outlook to write this, it's just a<BR>
couple of settings .<BR>
In fact it wil let you choose whatever charater you like in place of > as<BR>
well.<BR>
<BR>
What you have to do is turn of HTML first though.<BR>
<BR>
Outlook Express is the same.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 01:51:42 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: computer versions of rules<BR>
<BR>
BTW: Traveller on CD:<BR>
<BR>
How far has the procject come as of today? What is finished already, what <BR>
is still planned?<BR>
ANY News, ANYONE?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 21:48:49 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: David P. Summers <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Wednesday, 5 January 2000 9:25<BR>
Subject: Re: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:23:57 +1100<BR>
>>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
><BR>
>>>Assuming this is becuase belters spend time in zero G (which most<BR>
>>>spacer, in fact, would seldom do), long hair isn't really much of<BR>
>>>a problem im zero G.  A number of female astronauts have long hair....<BR>
>><BR>
>>    It may be the Larry Niven "Belter Strip"<BR>
<BR>
            In reference to the paragraph before this one, I cut it by<BR>
accident. I'd get it out of the recycle bin but I dumped the 1000+ crap<BR>
mails I have received in the last fortnight for a bit of breathing room.<BR>
            The haircut mentioned was a short mohawk for Spacecrew. It<BR>
features in a few Larry Niven novels as "The Belter Strip"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:09:40 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Stupid Emperors of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
On 4 Jan 00, at 17:46, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > So, who are the most stupid Emperors of the Third Imperium?  Does<BR>
> > Strephon get anyone's vote?<BR>
> <BR>
> <<looking at list of Emperors on pgae 31 of GT (1st ed.)>><BR>
> <BR>
> I'd have to vote for Emperor Gavin, whose reign (989-1031) included the<BR>
> Solomani Rim War (990-1002).  After all, he got the Imperial forces<BR>
> involved in a _land war in Asia_!  Not to mention up against Sicilians,<BR>
> when death was on the line...<BR>
<BR>
In that case how about Margaret I, who was dumb enough to let the <BR>
Sollie's form an Autonomous Region. Mind you, IMO the whole Terran vs <BR>
3I thing was fated from the time ol' whatshisface the first decided to <BR>
avoid Terra and expand coreward, especially as his successors did the <BR>
same.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:09:40 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
<BR>
On 4 Jan 00, at 19:07, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> For example, when MegaTraveller came out, local stores wouldn't touch it<BR>
> with a ten foot pole. I had to put in a special order for the boxed set.<BR>
<BR>
The first copy I ever saw was in a Toyworld store. I didn't buy it, not <BR>
being into Traveller then, and it took me years to track down another <BR>
copy.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:09:40 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!<BR>
<BR>
On 4 Jan 00, at 17:08, David P. Summers wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:53:42 -0600<BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
> <BR>
> >Actually, I figure that the image of Solomani as Space Nazis is in<BR>
> >large part Imperial propaganda.  Sure there is a minority of<BR>
> >Sollie Firsters who are Solomani racists and SolSec does keep a<BR>
> >close eye on foreigners..like 3I travellers who might be agents..but that<BR>
> >doesn't make the Confederation as a whole a bunch of Nazis. No, not<BR>
> >anymore than the whole Imperium is composed of degenerates and rabid<BR>
> >imperialists. <wink><BR>
> <BR>
> Whatever ideology, the current policy of the Confederation is<BR>
> more nationalist (liberate our lands) than anything else.<BR>
<BR>
The whole "the Solomani are Space Nazis" has always bemused me <BR>
somewhat, as canon clearly states (in the MT Imperial Encyclopedia, <BR>
IIRC) that the Confederation has less control over its member worlds <BR>
than the 3I does, and often can't stop trade wars and worse breaking <BR>
out. This leads me to suspect that one part or another (or both) of <BR>
this image of the Solomani Confederation is just so much Imperial Cr*p. <BR>
About what you'd expect from a bunch a' bad losers like the Emporers.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:09:40 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: The OT Flame War Postings<BR>
<BR>
Y'know it's just occurred to me, after reading heaps and heaps of <BR>
postings about the (now 3 day old) flame war that the war itself died <BR>
pretty much straight away, and that most of these OT postings that <BR>
everyone's (alright, I exaggerate) complaining about are OT postings <BR>
complaining about OT postings...<BR>
<BR>
While I'm exceedingly unimpressed with LL's original posts (I can <BR>
handle being called a munchkin, etc, etc, but I think that one should <BR>
at least experience someone's game before you say this) and totally <BR>
disagree with the way he expressed his sentiments, I must say that <BR>
intentional or not it's got to have been the best troll I have ever <BR>
seen.<BR>
<BR>
Thus ends my contribution to the OT "It must stop" thread.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:09:41 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People<BR>
<BR>
On 4 Jan 00, at 17:48, Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Discuss.<BR>
<BR>
You missed out the Army. Clearly a recruiting attempt by the Imperial <BR>
Army in anticipation of the next great slau..push to liberate the <BR>
Solomani Sphere.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:09:41 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: MT Sans Errata<BR>
<BR>
On 4 Jan 00, at 18:22, William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Does anyone know if there was an edition of Megatraveller which was<BR>
> >completely Errata free?  How does one identify it?  Eg. which edition,<BR>
> >copyright date, etc.<BR>
> <BR>
> Sorry, no such beast exists, to my knowledge. Certain books have versions<BR>
> with LESS erratta than others (Just look for the map on the inside over of<BR>
> the Ref's Manual).<BR>
> <BR>
> I picked up a later release of the MT Boxed set (as a giggle) at my FLGS<BR>
> last year... It included errata, printed off on a 12-pin dot-matrix<BR>
> printer, then photocopied. 3-4 pages thereof.<BR>
<BR>
Mine has a booklet of 5-6 pages printed in the same font as main books, <BR>
compelete with its own typos, IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:16:15 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> >No-one bothers stealing credit card numbers on the net<BR>
> >(and if they do their so stupid they're unlikely to be<BR>
> >able to use it correctly, there are programs out there<BR>
> >generate valid credit card numbers for you.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >The Secure Site gimmick is just for idiots who don't know how<BR>
> > credit cards or the internet work.<BR>
><BR>
> Hi, Frankie...  I would be one of those "idiots" then...<BR>
<BR>
Well, yes, sorry, based on what you say below, you are.<BR>
<BR>
> Which is to say that it isn't the amatuers you have to<BR>
> worry about, its "idiots" like me who know staff at most<BR>
> major ISPs in Halifax and could, if I wanted to, get a<BR>
> box onto a trunk to filter traffic to/from places like<BR>
> Digital RIver looking for Visa numbers.  If, that is,<BR>
> they didn't use 128-bit encryption.<BR>
><BR>
> Let's face it, I only need the number for 24 hours...<BR>
<BR>
You can't do anything useful with it no matter how long you've got it,<BR>
unless the retailer you're dealing with is also an idiot. Of course, there<BR>
are some such retailers, but they'll go out of business before long.<BR>
<BR>
Remember, according to credit card company rules, you must have a signature<BR>
on that little slip for it to be a valid transaction. Now, while CC<BR>
companies do allow retailers to charge without that slip precisely for<BR>
internet and phone use, it then becomes up to the the retailer to prove that<BR>
the person using the card is the rightful owner, and the CC company will<BR>
_automatically_ reverse the charge at the request of the owner without such<BR>
a slip.<BR>
<BR>
>         It's not the amatuers you need to worry about, its the "idiot"<BR>
> professionals such as some of the cracker gangs you need to worry about.<BR>
> Give them an inch and they'll pry it open to a mile and give thier friends<BR>
> root access to go with it...<BR>
<BR>
Think about Michel, the reason I said people who do that are idiots is<BR>
because it's a complete and utter waste of time.<BR>
<BR>
I repeat, you can download a program that will churn out all the valid<BR>
credit card numbers you want, without ever having to know anything about<BR>
networking or root access or any of that stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Any such "idiot proffesional" obviously knows nothing about how credit cards<BR>
work.<BR>
<BR>
So who cares if anyone goes to the trouble of getting a credit card number<BR>
by sniffing a line ?<BR>
<BR>
They're just wasting time that could have been spent _using_ a credit card<BR>
number obtained in an easier way.<BR>
<BR>
And even if they _do_ get a number, by whatever means, it's only stupid<BR>
retailers that loose money to mail order or internet credit card fraud, and<BR>
then only if they're stupid enough to accept a credit card without some<BR>
other form of verification or to ship to an address that is not the billing<BR>
address of the credit card.<BR>
<BR>
The _only_ reason for SSL on credit card transactions is to reassure those<BR>
people who think that using credit cards on the net is unsafe, and the only<BR>
reason they think that is because the people selling SSL have told them<BR>
that.<BR>
<BR>
Now, for a retailer SSL may provide a bit of extra protection, because they<BR>
m_might_ be able to prove who entered the card number, but it adds no extra<BR>
protection to the purchaser.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>         --Michel<BR>
><BR>
> 	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
> 	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
> 				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
> 	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
> 	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
> 	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
> 	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
> 	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
> 	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 02:28:50 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re:Quotations<BR>
<BR>
I think that it might be a good thing if some members<BR>
of the list snipped posts they are responding to<BR>
instead of simply quoting the whole thing, which is a<BR>
waste of space. I _suggest_ (not demand) that it might<BR>
be a good thing if quotes were snipped a bit more.<BR>
<BR>
Example #1:<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwartz writes to tell me he like my post<BR>
on The Traveller Universe.<BR>
 <BR>
> As everyone knows many Caribbean pirates were homosexuals.<BR>
> <BR>
> This proves that Piracy attracts homosexuals.<BR>
> <BR>
> Therefore many Imperial Pirates will be homosexuals.<BR>
<BR>
Etc.<BR>
<BR>
He attaches the whole (long) post to his response. I'm <BR>
glad he liked it but, much as seeing it all again two <BR>
digests after it was first posted might flatter my <BR>
authorial ego, it seems like excessive quoting to repeat <BR>
the whole message (no offense Kenji but reposting a 150 <BR>
line message is IMHO a bit excessive).<BR>
<BR>
Several others have a tendency to respond to the<BR>
whole message. Many do not even bother to snip the<BR>
original authors sig file or trim the header down.<BR>
<BR>
Example #2<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:41:46 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
- - -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Matthew Bond <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 9:18 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>-----Original Message-----<BR>
>From: Chauncey Smith <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
>To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
>Date: 04 January 2000 18:10<BR>
>Subject: Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Chauncey could have snipped this to<BR>
<BR>
> Matthew Bond <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> > Chauncey Smith <csmith@ICDC.com> wrote<BR>
<BR>
Saving about a dozen lines with very little loss of<BR>
clarity. (No offense Chauncey)<BR>
<BR>
Some other people might want to think about reducing<BR>
the length of their sig files.<BR>
<BR>
Example #3<BR>
<BR>
> "Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you when you sleep<BR>
>  Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;<BR>
>  An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit<BR>
>  Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.<BR>
>         Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"<BR>
>         But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll-<BR>
>         The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,<BR>
>         O it's "Thin red line of  'eroes" when the drums begin to roll."<BR>
>                                                -"Tommy" by Rudyard Kipling<BR>
> <BR>
> Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
> GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-<BR>
> PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++<BR>
> NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
A 14 line sig file seems like a bit much (no offense Pete). <BR>
IIRC the suggested standard is five lines, perhaps if we on the<BR>
Traveller mailing list tried to hold our sig files down to ten<BR>
lines or so it would be preferable.<BR>
<BR>
[All examples were from digest #1671. The use of the examples<BR>
I made was not meant to suggest that these people were the<BR>
most egregious problem, merely that they were examples from<BR>
that particular digest.]<BR>
<BR>
pnewman@gci.net		Peter Newman<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding.  I<BR>
mean all you had to do was admit you were wrong and I was <BR>
right and everything would've been fine. Ivanova to Winters<BR>
in Babylon 5 Divided Loyalties<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 06:54:39 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
<BR>
All this makes me damned glad I grabbed all the Megatraveller stuff I could<BR>
find when it first came out.  I remember calling their main office up<BR>
looking for the errata on Ram Grenades (somehow the price and damage never<BR>
made it into the book).<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 6:09 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On 4 Jan 00, at 19:07, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > For example, when MegaTraveller came out, local stores wouldn't touch it<BR>
> > with a ten foot pole. I had to put in a special order for the boxed set.<BR>
><BR>
> The first copy I ever saw was in a Toyworld store. I didn't buy it, not<BR>
> being into Traveller then, and it took me years to track down another<BR>
> copy.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
> Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
><BR>
> A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1672<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1673</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 5 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1673<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Confusing Quoting<BR>
Re: The Village People<BR>
Re: The Village People<BR>
Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
RE: The OT Flame War Postings<BR>
RE: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
fashions<BR>
Re Small Things<BR>
RE: fashions<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: Re Small Things<BR>
RE: Re Small Things<BR>
RE: Groups<BR>
Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
Re: Traveller Filk Fragments and Twisted ideas<BR>
re: Small Things<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality<BR>
re:  Clothes of the 3I <BR>
Re: party???<BR>
Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!<BR>
Hair<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:50:06 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
Dom wrote:<BR>
> ISTR that outlook can't do this easily? Certainly my work a/c version <BR>
> won't do it. Anyone know how?<BR>
<BR>
In Outlook98 select "Options" from the "Tools" menu and then from<BR>
the "Preferences" tab "E-mail options" button.  There  set  "when<BR>
replying to a message" to  "Prefix  each  line  of  the  original<BR>
message", and "Prefix each line with" to ">".<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 03:40:37 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
> > Discuss.<BR>
<BR>
> You missed out the Army. Clearly a recruiting attempt by the Imperial <BR>
> Army in anticipation of the next great slau..push to liberate the <BR>
> Solomani Sphere.<BR>
<BR>
I really don't have much to say about the Army. I mean<BR>
the [Traveller] Army is mostly composed of guys who<BR>
couldn't get into [nudge, nudge, wink, wink] the Marines<BR>
and the Navy. I mean what can you say about a bunch of<BR>
big, strong, sweaty, guys carrying heavy loads all camped out<BR>
together in the woods. The Marines are the First In<BR>
[except in GT where the Scouts are the First In] and<BR>
the Army comes along later for the long haul. The <BR>
Army has more of the big heavy toys like grav tanks with <BR>
big long hot metal barrels that spurt "plasma" at the<BR>
bad guys. The Army brags about their rapid fire<BR>
weapons. The Marines are looking for "a few good men"<BR>
while the Army wants all the men it can find. The<BR>
Army has to be taken for a ride by the Navy to go where<BR>
it wants to go.<BR>
<BR>
I really don't see anything at all about the Army<BR>
[Theban Sacred Band] that is at all worth commenting<BR>
on, that is why they were left out of the original<BR>
post.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:55:21 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People<BR>
<BR>
>You missed out the Army. Clearly a recruiting attempt by the Imperial<BR>
>Army in anticipation of the next great slau..push to liberate the<BR>
>Solomani Sphere.<BR>
<BR>
"liberate the Solomani Sphere??"  Is that prison-speak for something?<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
isteve1967@hotmail.com<BR>
ICQ#54933683<BR>
<BR>
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:54:57 +0000<BR>
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
<BR>
Can I ask the assembled brilliance on this list how feasible it would be to<BR>
have a TL 2 world that hasn't developed printing yet?  Would it be within<BR>
the margins of 'variation' for TL development or would it be a pretty basic<BR>
requirement for achieving that tech level?<BR>
<BR>
tc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:16:08 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: The OT Flame War Postings<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
> Y'know it's just occurred to me, after reading heaps and heaps<BR>
> of postings about the (now 3 day old) flame war that the war<BR>
> itself died pretty much straight away, and that most of these<BR>
> OT postings that everyone's (alright, I exaggerate) complaining<BR>
> about are OT postings complaining about OT postings...<BR>
<BR>
I noticed the same thing last year with the Clif saga: he'd  send<BR>
10 obnoxious posts, and there'd be 50 polite complaint posts,  50<BR>
angry posts, 50 "what should we do about him" posts, 50 "me  too"<BR>
type posts to these, and 50 calls for his removal from  the  TML.<BR>
... and  the  original  posts  weren't  that  bad!  Once  certain<BR>
members of the TML take a dislike to you they will hound you  off<BR>
the list.<BR>
<BR>
How about a separate list just for TML flame wars?<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:51:48 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond wrote (responding to Chauncey Smith):<BR>
> However, as Doug pointed out, too many people have suffered in<BR>
> reality to be oblivious to such statements. If LL had come back, <BR>
> apologised, and said forex "Ok folks, sorry 'bout that, just<BR>
> blowing off some steam.  I just don't like the game, company,<BR>
> or customers, but that's just me." then fair enough.<BR>
><BR>
> But instead he came back with some rant about seeing Gurps <BR>
> players/writers blood on the outside of  their bodies.<BR>
<BR>
There is an ancient language concept that  some  people  seem  to<BR>
have forgotten: "context".<BR>
<BR>
LL has been on the TML for ages and not shown  excessive  violent<BR>
tendancies before, then someone asks about GURPS and he lets fly.<BR>
Within that context it sounds like a "venting  steam"  situation.<BR>
There is no ongoing campaign of incitement here.<BR>
<BR>
Next, one poster asked him to justify his feelings which  he  did<BR>
with a series of  anacdotes.  That  post  ended  with  the  blood<BR>
reference which I believe  was  an  attempt  at  levity  but  was<BR>
misinterpreted.  (Okay, he should have added an emoticon.)<BR>
<BR>
DB was the only person who stated he felt  personally  threatened<BR>
(despite LL never menting  him  specifically),  and  although  LL<BR>
didn't appologise for his original post he  did  try  to  make  a<BR>
friendly remark about DB's ongoing  battle  with  cancer  ...  DB<BR>
chose not to accept this olive branch.<BR>
<BR>
> LL brought this on himself. What happens next I dunno... but I<BR>
> don't think inflammatory remarks on Usenet are necessarily<BR>
> trivial, as you appear to.<BR>
<BR>
While LL's remarks were emotionally  hurtful  to  GURPS  writers/<BR>
players as far as a physical threat is concerned in this  context<BR>
they  were  *entirely*  trivial.  To  think  otherwise  is  self-<BR>
indulgent paranoia.<BR>
<BR>
(Of course its also a great way for some of  the  more  fanatical<BR>
GURPS players to shut  him  up.  Which,  ironically,  makes  LL's<BR>
point for him!)<BR>
<BR>
How about a separate group for TML flame wars?<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 08:54:56 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: fashions<BR>
<BR>
Eris writes:<BR>
 >>Assuming this is becuase belters spend time in zero G (which most spacer,<BR>
 >>in fact, would seldom do), long hair isn't really much of a problem im<BR>
 >>zero G.  A number of female astronauts have long hair....<BR>
 >David, there's no accounting fashion.  <g> For all *I* know, not<BR>
 >being a belter, <g> it might have nothing to do with practicality<BR>
 >and just be a fashion.<BR>
 >OTOH, if might have something to do with the skintight's cowl that<BR>
 >pulls up over the top of the wearer's head when they wear their vacc<BR>
 >suits.  Indies and Liners tend to have short hair, but don't insist<BR>
 >on the skinned look.<BR>
<BR>
The classic Niven Belter often operated out of a small singleship.  No air <BR>
lock, you lived in your suit.  You had to get the helmet on in a hurry in <BR>
case of a hull breach.  Long hair got in the way and in the machinery.<BR>
<BR>
Shuttle astronauts don't 'hurry' into EVA suits.  The women have plenty of <BR>
time to put up their hair prior to putting on the suit.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Opinions Mine!<BR>
"In 1991, [Vice President] Gore cited Bush's China policy as a reason he<BR>
should be defeated for reelection, charging Bush sent his emissaries to<BR>
toast the butchers of Tiananmen Square.'"<BR>
Deborah Orin in the New York Post, March 26, 1997, the day after Gore<BR>
drank champagne with Chinese Premier Li Peng, who helped plan the<BR>
Tiananmen massacre<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:23:23 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re Small Things<BR>
<BR>
One thing about the question, "how small can a data storage device get<BR>
before it's too small for people to use?":<BR>
<BR>
There's nothing to stop a manufacturer from putting a microgram-sized<BR>
data storage device in a pencil-sized, cheap plastic handle.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:39:18 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
> Eris writes:<BR>
> > > Assuming this is becuase belters spend time in zero G (which<BR>
> > > most spacer, in fact, would seldom do), long hair isn't<BR>
> > > really much of a problem im zero G.  A number of female<BR>
> > > astronauts have long hair....<BR>
> ><BR>
> > David, there's no accounting fashion.  <g> For all *I* know,<BR>
> > not being a belter, <g> it might have nothing to do with<BR>
> > practicality and just be a fashion.<BR>
> > OTOH, if might have something to do with the skintight's cowl<BR>
> > that pulls up over the top of the wearer's head when they wear<BR>
> > their vacc suits.  Indies and Liners tend to have short hair,<BR>
> > but don't insist on the skinned look.<BR>
> <BR>
> The classic Niven Belter often operated out of a small singleship.<BR>
> No air lock, you lived in your suit.  You had to get the helmet on <BR>
> in a hurry in case of a hull breach.  Long hair got in the way and<BR>
> in the machinery.<BR>
><BR>
> Shuttle astronauts don't 'hurry' into EVA suits.  The women have<BR>
> plenty of time to put up their hair prior to putting on the suit.<BR>
<BR>
I've been wondering about this for a while.  A lot of the  modern<BR>
concept of personal privacy came from a change  in  lifestyle  in<BR>
Europe during the last mini-ice age.  And a  number  of  tropical<BR>
cultures are traditionally semi-nude.  Given a few thousand years<BR>
and exposeure to alien races and  cultures  would  the  crews  of<BR>
climate controlled ships wear any  clothes?  I  could  imagine  a<BR>
belt or harness for pockets  and  rank  insignia  (although  F.M.<BR>
Busby's "Star Rebel" series had rank insignia face  tattoos).  Of<BR>
course, GDW's art would  have  reflected  contemporary  modes  of<BR>
modesty, but perhaps the 'reality' is that all IN crews (etc) are<BR>
nude!<BR>
<BR>
(I suppose Darth Vader types would still keep the helmet.)<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 07:49:13 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
>Remember, according to credit card company rules, you must have a signature<BR>
>on that little slip for it to be a valid transaction. Now, while CC<BR>
>companies do allow retailers to charge without that slip precisely for<BR>
>internet and phone use, it then becomes up to the the retailer to prove that<BR>
>the person using the card is the rightful owner, and the CC company will<BR>
>_automatically_ reverse the charge at the request of the owner without such<BR>
>a slip.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, that's not 100% correct. If the delivery address of the item<BR>
shipped by mail order (internet or phone) matches the billing address of<BR>
the cardholder, the bank will usually deny the customer's "chargeback"<BR>
request. (I manage an online bookstore in real life.) We also had a case<BR>
where someone tried to deny the charge. We were able to show that the<BR>
customer did in fact work at the company to which we delivered the item<BR>
- -- and I still had the original request, from the customer's work e-mail<BR>
address, complete with company info in the sig, asking about the availability<BR>
of the book that he eventually ordered. The charge stood.<BR>
<BR>
(In the one year we've been up and running on the 'net, these are the only<BR>
two "chargebacks" we had to deal with for items that we shipped. Any order<BR>
from outside Canada and the US, or any order that for any reason I am less<BR>
than 100% sure about, I will do an address verification first. Like the time<BR>
we received an order from Pakistan... except that according to our bank, the<BR>
credit card it was paid with was issued by a bank in Utah. We didn't ship the<BR>
order.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- g<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 14:53:55 +0000<BR>
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Small Things<BR>
<BR>
But then why stop with just one ? If you are going to use a pencil sized<BR>
holding device you may as well fill the thing with storage devices<BR>
depending on cost effectiveness.<BR>
<BR>
Ewan<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> One thing about the question, "how small can a data storage device get<BR>
> before it's too small for people to use?":<BR>
> <BR>
> There's nothing to stop a manufacturer from putting a microgram-sized<BR>
> data storage device in a pencil-sized, cheap plastic handle.<BR>
> <BR>
> Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,<BR>
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,<BR>
   Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:<BR>
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death<BR>
                                      Rode the six hundred.<BR>
   E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              Alfred, Lord Tennyson<BR>
<BR>
   #include<stddisclaimer.h><BR>
<BR>
   My spelling is entirely due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license<BR>
<BR>
   University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:52:26 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Re Small Things<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
> One thing about the question, "how small can a data storage<BR>
> device get before it's too small for people to use?":<BR>
> <BR>
> There's nothing to stop a manufacturer from putting a microgram-<BR>
> sized data storage device in a pencil-sized, cheap plastic handle.<BR>
<BR>
Certainly nothing stops manufacturers of software putting a CD in<BR>
a flat wallet inside an otherwise empty box the same  size  as  a<BR>
small steamer trunk (or bigger).<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 10:34:43 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Groups<BR>
<BR>
Jim Lawrie writes:<BR>
>I was wondering, what is the preferred number of players that<BR>
>GMs have and why? I've run scenarios for 15 players and I've<BR>
>run for 1 and enjoyed the game. I would have to say that I<BR>
>prefer 3 or 4 players the most though, enough that everyone<BR>
>gets a go fairly quickly and still retain a decent input for<BR>
>problem solving and planning.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	I like having a group with 3-5 players.  More becomes hard<BR>
	to handle, and only a small fraction of the players tend<BR>
	to be involved at any given time.  It also becomes almost<BR>
	inevitable that the PCs end up far from each other:  I<BR>
	don't mind this some of the time, but it can slow things<BR>
	down.  Very small groups tend to loose the interplay<BR>
	between PCs that, IMHO, really enhances RPGing.<BR>
<BR>
Eris responds:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>I've got 8 currently in my PBEM and to be honest that's pushing<BR>
>it for me. <BR>
<BR>
	I have never been involved in a PBEM game, but I would<BR>
	expect larger groups may be accomidated.  Is this true?<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 07:42:37<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
At 12:41 AM 1/5/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I was assuming that the ppl on this list are sane.. and adults that know<BR>
>what they are doing.<BR>
<BR>
Dangerous assumption.  Most murders and rapes are committed by someone the<BR>
victim knows.<BR>
<BR>
In the case of the Columbine shootings, Klebold and Harris spent months<BR>
preparing and plotting, but never let on what their real intentions were.<BR>
<BR>
>not a bunch of suburn kids with parents that don't know how to be parents.<BR>
>if we assume as I have that threat is really can be taken light ly.<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Sheppard assumed he was going out for a good time.<BR>
<BR>
>yes they are trivial... the only way it changes is if you know where I live.<BR>
>there are far to many gurps players for this to happen think really.<BR>
<BR>
People on this list know my name, and the city I live in.  My picture is up<BR>
on my web site.  They know I drive for Super Shuttle.  They also have been<BR>
told that I will be at BayCon this spring.<BR>
<BR>
With that information, you could find me easily.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:47:02 -0500 <BR>
From: Glenn Myers <glenn.myers@ansys.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
CC security is important. I was the victim of CC fraud last year when the<BR>
card number I use for online transactions had monthly web site charges<BR>
appearing on the statement. Apparently, it is pretty easy to set up a<BR>
for-pay web site, contract with another company to offer credit card<BR>
support, and sign up a bunch of people's stolen CC numbers. <BR>
<BR>
It shows up on your statement as $19.99 for "Net access" or "ISP charge".<BR>
<BR>
The total tab on my card was $600. After 6 months of hassle, I am not out<BR>
any money, but I wouldn't want to go through it again.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: What do people think of the Paul Sanders - Lost Supplements Scams<BR>
book. Anything really original in it?<BR>
<BR>
Glenn<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
Glenn E. Myers<BR>
ANSYS Inc.                Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com<BR>
_____________________________________________________<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 07:45:20<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
<BR>
At 12:54 PM 1/5/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Can I ask the assembled brilliance on this list how feasible it would be to<BR>
>have a TL 2 world that hasn't developed printing yet?  Would it be within<BR>
>the margins of 'variation' for TL development or would it be a pretty basic<BR>
>requirement for achieving that tech level?<BR>
<BR>
I could see it, but the spread of technology would be much slower.  So it<BR>
would stay TL 2 for a long time.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 07:46:21<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Filk Fragments and Twisted ideas<BR>
<BR>
At 05:39 PM 1/4/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
><BR>
>Bravo!! Encore!!  Free bird!!<BR>
<BR>
Don't tempt me.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:08:05 -0500 <BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: re: Small Things<BR>
<BR>
Peter Trevor wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
> There's nothing to stop a manufacturer from putting a microgram- <BR>
> sized data storage device in a pencil-sized, cheap plastic handle. <BR>
<BR>
Certainly nothing stops manufacturers of software putting a CD in <BR>
a flat wallet inside an otherwise empty box the same  size  as  a <BR>
small steamer trunk (or bigger). <BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
The "it's too small" argument was based on the data storage device<BR>
becoming too small for a human to handle without losing or breaking.<BR>
My point was that this is not a problem, as the manufacturer will<BR>
simply package the data storage device in a sleeve that *is* large<BR>
enough (and sturdy enough) to be handled. We do that today - the<BR>
plastic case on a floppy disk, for example.<BR>
<BR>
Ewan Quibell wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
But then why stop with just one ? If you are going to use a pencil sized <BR>
holding device you may as well fill the thing with storage devices <BR>
depending on cost effectiveness.<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
That's certainly doable. I'd imagine datasticks with different<BR>
storage capabilities, perhaps color-coded. Simpler data-reading<BR>
devices might not be able to handle more than one storage device<BR>
at a time, so there will be datasticks made to be read by the <BR>
cheaper units.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:12:59 +0000<BR>
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
In message <38709037.BEAADC16@gci.net>, Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
writes<BR>
><BR>
>[Let me note, for any one who is humor impaired, this is <BR>
>all a joke intended to point out that the word Family<BR>
>(or family) can have more than one meaning. Neither my<BR>
>depiction of 100% legitimate businessmen, often of Italian<BR>
>extraction, nor my references to non heterosexual<BR>
>persons, including Don Peter's questionable use of the<BR>
>term 'fags' are intended to offend any one. Nor is Don<BR>
>Peter's comment about sending over some of the boys from <BR>
>100% legitimate businesses to talk to Kiri to be <BR>
>interpreted as implying, in any way, that Kiri might be<BR>
>in any danger. I am Family, but not Family, myself - Peter]<BR>
<BR>
The word you are looking for is "irony".  Some people on the TML might<BR>
like to know that it dosen't usually mean "made out of iron".<BR>
- -- <BR>
Martin Hardgrave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 10:23:40 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snips discussion of unreality of televised penguins>>>><BR>
> <BR>
> > (Does all this mean that my reality anchor really wasn't all that<BR>
> > Y2K-proof? Or does it just need new batteries?)<BR>
> <BR>
> Funny, I thought reality anchors were GTL 8 technology....<BR>
<BR>
C'mon, we've had that level of tech for nearly a week, now....<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Alan Bradley<BR>
> alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:29:58 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Clothes of the 3I <BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
> <BR>
> >I don't think this _has_ been really addressed much.  <BR>
> <BR>
> >I'd actually be very interested in hearing ideas about any of <BR>
> >this stuff, since it's outa my league.<BR>
> <BR>
> Doesn't everybody just wear black tshirts and jeans, except when<BR>
> they're wearing camouflage?<BR>
> <BR>
No, those are the players.  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:42:56 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > >>I know BayCon has Party Floors, I wonder if they have BBQ Floors?  :D<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Well, Disclave has B&D floors...<BR>
> > <BR>
> > But the sprinklers are *not* to be used as suspension points! :-)<BR>
> <BR>
> What if you're _into_ water sports?<BR>
> <BR>
Then you have your own sprinkler already.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri <BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:47:24 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The whole "the Solomani are Space Nazis" has always bemused me <BR>
> somewhat, as canon clearly states (in the MT Imperial Encyclopedia, <BR>
> IIRC) that the Confederation has less control over its member worlds <BR>
> than the 3I does, and often can't stop trade wars and worse breaking <BR>
> out. This leads me to suspect that one part or another (or both) of <BR>
<BR>
I think it may be more useful to distinguish between the Solomani Party<BR>
and the Solomani Confederation on one hand, and between ideology and<BR>
government praxis on the other.  ISTM that the _ideology_ of the Solomani<BR>
Party, and many of the _Party's_ operations and structure, are akin to<BR>
Nazis'.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:12:31 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Hair<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Eris writes:<BR>
>  >>Assuming this is becuase belters spend time in zero G (which most spacer,<BR>
>  >>in fact, would seldom do), long hair isn't really much of a problem im<BR>
>  >>zero G.  A number of female astronauts have long hair....<BR>
>  >David, there's no accounting fashion.  <g> For all *I* know, not<BR>
>  >being a belter, <g> it might have nothing to do with practicality<BR>
>  >and just be a fashion.<BR>
>  >OTOH, if might have something to do with the skintight's cowl that<BR>
>  >pulls up over the top of the wearer's head when they wear their vacc<BR>
>  >suits.  Indies and Liners tend to have short hair, but don't insist<BR>
>  >on the skinned look.<BR>
> <BR>
> The classic Niven Belter often operated out of a small singleship.  No air <BR>
> lock, you lived in your suit.  You had to get the helmet on in a hurry in <BR>
> case of a hull breach.  Long hair got in the way and in the machinery.<BR>
> <BR>
> Shuttle astronauts don't 'hurry' into EVA suits.  The women have plenty of <BR>
> time to put up their hair prior to putting on the suit.<BR>
> <BR>
Short hair requires frequent maintenance.  Unless you shave your head or<BR>
use one of those flowbee thingies you have to go get it cut.  Most women<BR>
do not want to cut their own hair.  (Of course most women are not Belters,<BR>
LOL!)  Once hair gets beyond a few inches length it can seriously get in<BR>
your way.<BR>
<BR>
The worst hair length for anyone who does serious work is medium length<BR>
with layers. That is just annoying as hell.  You have to style it.  You<BR>
can't put it up.  It is going to get in your face.  Medium length without<BR>
layers can be held back with a scrunchie or elastic, but it tends to come<BR>
loose if it's fine or silky.<BR>
<BR>
If you have very long hair and you use enough pins it will not come down,<BR>
and you don't have to find someone to cut it for you every few weeks. You<BR>
can trim the split ends yourself and wash it with camellia oil products so<BR>
you don't get as many.  I have incredibly straight black hair that won't<BR>
hold a curl unless you use 1950's lacquer or very expensive "styling<BR>
water" from Japan to hold it in place.  Unless it's permed or cut by Asian<BR>
stylists with a technique where they roll it around in their hands and<BR>
FIND a wave, it won't hold any kind of style at all.  But if I braid it<BR>
tightly with an elastic at the top and bottom of the braid, wrap the braid<BR>
around itself once or twice, pin it in place with about a dozen pins, and<BR>
wrap a scrunchie around the whole thing, it STAYS PUT.  And doesn't shed<BR>
into my lunch, or someone's experiment.  I would expect working spacers to<BR>
have hair less than three inches long or down to their shoulders plus.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1673<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 5 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1674<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
fashion<BR>
Re: fashion<BR>
Letters of Marque (not the adventure)<BR>
Re: MT Sans Errata<BR>
Re: Groups<BR>
Lost Supplements ( was Re: Collector Edition mail order)<BR>
RE: fashion<BR>
Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
Re: Re SolConfed<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: fashion<BR>
Re: "Family"<BR>
Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
re:  Old<BR>
RE: Y2K Bug<BR>
More letters from the front lines...<BR>
RE: fashions<BR>
Re:Quotations<BR>
Re: fashion<BR>
Re: The OT Flame War Postings<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:14:52 -0800<BR>
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> How about a separate group for TML flame wars?<BR>
> <BR>
now here is something I cound go for<BR>
<BR>
Wayne<BR>
wewart@home.com<BR>
icq22113294<BR>
http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
                     --------<BR>
                    |        |<BR>
                    | (o) (o)<BR>
                    C   ---  )<BR>
                     | | ,__ |<BR>
                     | \____/<BR>
                     /       \<BR>
                    /         \<BR>
"I am Homer of Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.<BR>
Preparation is irrelev...Mmmmmmm...Doughnut!"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:29:01 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: fashion<BR>
<BR>
[snip of Kiri's detailed & on target description of hair handling.]<BR>
<BR>
Yup.  If I recall correctly, Niven Belters used a creme (pre-dating Nair?) <BR>
to keep their heads smooth.<BR>
Perhaps they cropped the queue really short when docked and let it grow out <BR>
while in the singleship.<BR>
<BR>
I'm suddenly reminded of the opening sequence in Jane Fonda's finest film, <BR>
where she starts off in a rather bulkly EVA suit that has a darkened <BR>
fishbowl helmet.  The dark film of the helmet is rolled back to show her <BR>
face framed by lot's of loose red hair in the fishbowl helmet.  Not <BR>
practical, but an interesting image.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a<BR>
free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall<BR>
not be infringed.  -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:48:47 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: fashion<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> [snip of Kiri's detailed & on target description of hair handling.]<BR>
> <BR>
> Yup.  If I recall correctly, Niven Belters used a creme (pre-dating Nair?) <BR>
> to keep their heads smooth.<BR>
> Perhaps they cropped the queue really short when docked and let it grow out <BR>
> while in the singleship.<BR>
> <BR>
The last time you would want to be in the awkward phase of letting your<BR>
hair grow out would be when you were on a singleship!  BTW Nair has been<BR>
around as long as I can remember-- I can remember seeing commercials for<BR>
it in the 60's as a child.  It is evil stuff, though, or at least it was<BR>
in the 80's when I used it instead of shaving.  When your hair is growing<BR>
out you can't do anything with it but let it fly around.<BR>
<BR>
> I'm suddenly reminded of the opening sequence in Jane Fonda's finest film, <BR>
> where she starts off in a rather bulkly EVA suit that has a darkened <BR>
> fishbowl helmet.  The dark film of the helmet is rolled back to show her <BR>
> face framed by lot's of loose red hair in the fishbowl helmet.  Not <BR>
> practical, but an interesting image.<BR>
<BR>
You could, conceivably, suffocate if you had enough hair in a helmet like<BR>
that.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:58:34 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net><BR>
Subject: Letters of Marque (not the adventure)<BR>
<BR>
Howdy!<BR>
<BR>
I found this on the SCAHRLDS mailing list and though itmight be<BR>
of interest to those who countenance ethically ambiguous<BR>
mercantile activities... :)<BR>
<BR>
There appear to ba about two dozen examples...<BR>
<BR>
> Reply-To: Discussions of SCA Heraldry <SCAHRLDS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM><BR>
> Sender: Discussions of SCA Heraldry <SCAHRLDS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM><BR>
> Subject:      Re: OFF: Letters of Mark<BR>
> To: SCAHRLDS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM<BR>
> <BR>
> Tasha,<BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks for the website. It led me to<BR>
> several examples of Letters of Mark at:<BR>
> http://huizen.nhkanaal.nl/~wastrel/marque.htm<BR>
<BR>
yours,<BR>
Michael<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:05:23 -0600<BR>
From: Eris reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: MT Sans Errata<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > I picked up a later release of the MT Boxed set (as a giggle) at my FLGS<BR>
> > last year... It included errata, printed off on a 12-pin dot-matrix<BR>
> > printer, then photocopied. 3-4 pages thereof.<BR>
 <BR>
> Mine has a booklet of 5-6 pages printed in the same font as main books,<BR>
> compelete with its own typos, IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
<Sigh> Mine is a first print run in all its glorious typos, missing<BR>
charts, mistakes and blunders. It soured me on MT in a big way.<BR>
</sigh><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:24:48 -0600<BR>
From: Eris reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Groups<BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Eris responds:<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> >I've got 8 currently in my PBEM and to be honest that's pushing<BR>
> >it for me.<BR>
> <BR>
>         I have never been involved in a PBEM game, but I would<BR>
>         expect larger groups may be accomidated.  Is this true?<BR>
<BR>
Yes, I think you are correct. I'm sure I would have even more trouble<BR>
with 8 in a FTF.  In a PBEM (email, not IRC), you can easily break the<BR>
whole group into several subgroups, even down to individual players,<BR>
with private posts. Right now, forex, I have one group of 3 at a<BR>
salvage yard looking for part, another group of 3 searching out<BR>
financing and cargo, 1 painting the hull, 2 working in sickbay and 1<BR>
nursing his "wounds" in his bed (yes that adds up to 10, I'm including<BR>
a couple of NPC's that are with the groups of 3). If things happen to<BR>
Group A that the others shouldn't know about, we can go to private<BR>
mail and play things out, otherwise we all post to a mail list with<BR>
appropriate subject lines. I've run as many as 6 separate threads this<BR>
way, and anticipate that happening again before long.<BR>
<BR>
With a PBEM, having too few people around can kill a game. Say, one<BR>
gets sick, another is out of town on business and a third is just too<BR>
busy all in the same week. If you have a group of three of four things<BR>
like that can kill the whole game. If you have seven or eight, though,<BR>
the Ref can NPC the missing and shift the focus of the threads to<BR>
those that are still around.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:30:08 -0600<BR>
From: Eris reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Lost Supplements ( was Re: Collector Edition mail order)<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Myers wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ob Trav: What do people think of the Paul Sanders - Lost Supplements Scams<BR>
> book. Anything really original in it?<BR>
<BR>
Yes! Love it! Lot of new and interesting things in it like new stats &<BR>
skills, a Universal Psychological Profile, mechanics for scams,<BR>
adventures, NPC's and more. <BR>
<BR>
Perfect for CT'ers wanting to get involved in "Other" types of<BR>
scenarios.<BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
	and no Peter, Kenji, et al, I don't mean the sort of "other" you've<BR>
been regaling us with. <g><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:54:41 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: fashion<BR>
<BR>
On Wednesday, January 05, 2000 9:49 AM<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>
<BR>
> When your hair is growing<BR>
> out you can't do anything with it but let it fly around.<BR>
<BR>
Except if one has mastered the Gel.  I can picture the scene of belters<BR>
and their ilk with transition hair firmly slicked back, strutting about<BR>
a station looking like holovid villains.<BR>
<BR>
"Dry hair is for squids."<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
Thing under the stairs,<BR>
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
==================================<BR>
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the  one  that heralds the<BR>
most discoveries, is not "Eureka!"  (I found it!)  but "That's<BR>
funny..." -Isaac Asimov<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:47:21 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
<BR>
>It makes you feel any better, my last computer was delivered by a crew of 4<BR>
>and they needed a fork lift to get it off the truck. <weg><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Oh, woe. I came --->  <--- this close to being given an 'old' Silicon<BR>
Graphics Onyx 3 (that was being chucked and nobody in the department wanted)<BR>
last summer, but disposal regulations got in the way and it had to be<BR>
burned/shredded/hitwithsticks.<BR>
<BR>
Even if the damn thing hadn't worked, I'd still have liked to use it as a<BR>
coffee table...<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:49:04 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re SolConfed<BR>
<BR>
>(I also think -- see? I'm taking the list's advice, or pretending to --<BR>
>that technically, there weren't any _pogroms_ under the Soviet regime.<BR>
>Purges are different.  Ask your local SolSec Monitor for an educational<BR>
>pamphlet-cum-request form.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Weren't the pogroms under the Czars?<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
+++<BR>
Straining a history GCSE to its very limits....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:06:07 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
>The word you are looking for is "irony".  Some people on the TML might<BR>
>like to know that it dosen't usually mean "made out of iron".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Indeed, it doesn't mean that very often at all.<BR>
<BR>
NB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:09:17 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: fashion<BR>
<BR>
>You could, conceivably, suffocate if you had enough hair in a helmet like<BR>
>that.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
NASA suits have form-fitting hoods under the helmets, ISTR. That would seem<BR>
to be the obvious solution.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
+++<BR>
Keep up the hair discussion. I'm getting drawn into it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:08:56 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: "Family"<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:<BR>
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>
> > Was it you or Kenji that came up with that classic line a couple<BR>
> > of years back? - "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body!"<BR>
><BR>
> It _wouldn't_ have been me.  I'm the reactionary lesbian feminist<BR>
> throwback trapped in the _lifestyle_ of a debonair & dashing drag king.<BR>
> As evidence of this, take the fact that I think Doug's T-shirt as worn by<BR>
> him is totally un-funny and sent my blood pressure way up.<BR>
<BR>
LSLISTD [Score: 1 pt]<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:14:10 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Scouts are easy too!  Flight suit with vest ;)  This is probably what I'll<BR>
> be in (or a variation of such) when I'm not in Combat Armor [assuming I get<BR>
> it done].<BR>
> <BR>
Yes, one assumes that when you are flying a ship or fighting you will be<BR>
wearing utilitarian clothes, but that's NOT what I meant.<BR>
<BR>
Once most people are out of the military, they DON'T wear military gear<BR>
all the time, even if they do wear military/work-type clothes when they<BR>
are working.   I strongly doubt that adventurers, whatever their prior<BR>
service may be, go out drinking, go shopping, or go on dates wearing<BR>
flight suits.  I was curious as to what people would wear when they were<BR>
not working on the engines or operating heavy machinery.<BR>
<BR>
Let's face it, most of us want to get out of our work clothes ASAP once<BR>
we're off duty unless we're one of two sorts:<BR>
<BR>
1)  The sort that doesn't care what they wear (and most of those people<BR>
aren't comfortable in work clothes unless they also fall into the second<BR>
group)<BR>
<BR>
and/or<BR>
<BR>
2)  Those lucky enough to have jobs where they can dress exactly as they<BR>
please.  I don't have such a job even though I am allowed to wear very<BR>
casual clothes if I want-- because if I really dressed in whatever pleaed<BR>
me every day, there would be some days that my attire would not be<BR>
"appropriate".<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:15:47 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Old<BR>
<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Old<BR>
Peter Newman replys thusly to Kenji:<BR>
>Kenji Schwarz wrote:><BR>
>> It's a delight to see all the old pervs<BR>
>>I'm only 33, that's not old.<BR>
>Yeah, but you have complained about feeling old recently....<BR>
>And you're older than I, and I am starting to feel old.<BR>
<BR>
I'm 41 and proud to be an old perv!<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:18:26 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Thing wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > > I am having "Aa! Megami-sama" flashses and backing away slowly.<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > Of the three, I'm definitely much more Urd than Belldandy or Skuld.<BR>
> <BR>
> Physically, tempermentally, or both.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Temperamentally.   I have never met a real life woman who looks like an<BR>
anime character, although I once dated a guy who did.<BR>
<BR>
> On second thought, don't answer that.  Any of those answers would probably<BR>
> put a picture of you in my head that I shouldn't have when reading your<BR>
> posts.<BR>
> <BR>
LOL.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:15:14 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: More letters from the front lines...<BR>
<BR>
(Well, actually from the rear areas)<BR>
<BR>
//Trace information suppressed for security reasons//<BR>
//This communication should be considered insecure//<BR>
//Do not transmit any logistical or operational information//<BR>
<BR>
Mother,<BR>
<BR>
Sorry I haven't written more often. Since our liner was called up by<BR>
the auxiliaries, we've been pretty much travelling in convoys. We<BR>
haven't even had a planetfall in months, so there really hasn't been<BR>
that much to tell. I think we've had escorts around us, but that new<BR>
Navy officer "helping out" on the bridge never lets us see anything.<BR>
He's pretty nice, but by his name I'm pretty sure he's not from any<BR>
of the families. I guess all those officers are on battleships and such.<BR>
<BR>
We ran out of standard food supplies last month, and ever since then<BR>
we've been eating what we pick up from the Navy supply ships. <BR>
Geoffe - you remember Geoffe, we had him to the villa when I was last<BR>
home, he went to the same Culinary Institute as your house chef<BR>
Jeanna did? - does what he can with it, but every meal still has a<BR>
certain sameness to the tastes.<BR>
<BR>
We've been carrying soldiers between military bases, so I guess we're<BR>
pretty far from the dangerous areas. These troopers, every one of them,<BR>
they travel like debutante teenagers on holiday. All they do is watch<BR>
trideos, gamble and sleep - when they aren't squabbling, that is. I spoke<BR>
to one of their sergeants about it, he said the troops always behaved like <BR>
this on an auxiliary ship...that they'd settle down once they were on a <BR>
"real" Navy transport. <sigh><BR>
<BR>
I guess we have the dubious honor of taking them somewhere where<BR>
many of them will get killed, so we shouldn't complain. But really, some<BR>
of these people are from such nice places, you'd think they would know<BR>
how to behave themselves. Maybe they do, they're just acting this way<BR>
because they think this is how brave soldiers act on the way to the front.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe if we weren't so crowded it would help. Lately, going down to the<BR>
passenger deck, it smells like...I don't know what it smells like, a locker<BR>
room or something. A locker room with the air scrubbers all gummed<BR>
up.<BR>
<BR>
I was so looking forward to being home during the Founder's Day season.<BR>
The liner was supposed to be laying over there for maintenance, you<BR>
were getting me that wonderful outfit from Cham Chillon...oh well. There's<BR>
always next year, the company surely won't let them keep our liner<BR>
in auxiliary service much longer than this.<BR>
<BR>
It just burns me to have to watch the trideos of the Founder's Day Ball<BR>
like some kind of day worker...Grrr!<BR>
<BR>
Have Pater lay up some of that Port I like for when I get back, and<BR>
let me know how the season went. <BR>
<BR>
Love,<BR>
<BR>
Darcinia<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:29:15 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I've been wondering about this for a while.  A lot of the  modern<BR>
> concept of personal privacy came from a change  in  lifestyle  in<BR>
> Europe during the last mini-ice age.  And a  number  of  tropical<BR>
> cultures are traditionally semi-nude.  Given a few thousand years<BR>
> and exposeure to alien races and  cultures  would  the  crews  of<BR>
> climate controlled ships wear any  clothes?  I  could  imagine  a<BR>
> belt or harness for pockets  and  rank  insignia  (although  F.M.<BR>
> Busby's "Star Rebel" series had rank insignia face  tattoos).  Of<BR>
> course, GDW's art would  have  reflected  contemporary  modes  of<BR>
> modesty, but perhaps the 'reality' is that all IN crews (etc) are<BR>
> nude!<BR>
> <BR>
I can't imagine this.  For one thing, the Imperial language is Galanglic,<BR>
which means that Solomani culture is of western origin and that western<BR>
values are dominant.  You know, since the Meiji Restoration and<BR>
westernization of Japan, people don't even do mixed-gender nude bathing<BR>
over there any more!<BR>
<BR>
Secondly, the Vilani lived in a hostile environment which means that they<BR>
are going to wear clothes.<BR>
<BR>
Thirdly... as a female.... I don't want to be too crude here... but there<BR>
are valid reasons for at least a loincloth and most cultures do at least<BR>
wear some kind of skirt/briefs.  To put it bluntly, I don't want to sit on<BR>
a chair that another woman has been sitting in not wearing any panties.<BR>
ESPECIALLY not 3-7 days out of every 28 or so, but really not at any time.<BR>
And most men aren't too comfortable letting their dangly bits just dangle.<BR>
<BR>
I can see minimal clothing but I can't see none.  I think something like<BR>
briefies would be essential and any woman with enough up top to jiggle<BR>
would want a sports bra.  If you have to run and your chest bounces, it<BR>
may look cute but it HURTS.<BR>
<BR>
Besides, I wouldn't want to work with heavy equipment with my nipples<BR>
exposed.  And when I'm in the lab I want proper attire.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:38:53 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re:Quotations<BR>
<BR>
>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
>I think that it might be a good thing if some members of the <BR>
>list snipped posts they are responding to instead of simply <BR>
>quoting the whole thing, which is a waste of space. <BR>
<BR>
>Example #1:<BR>
>He attaches the whole (long) post to his response. <BR>
>Example #2<BR>
[please don't copy headers into posts]<BR>
>Example #3<BR>
>A 14 line sig file seems like a bit much (no offense Pete). <BR>
<BR>
I'm with Peter.  The less scrolling I have to do, the happier I<BR>
am.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
[trying to lead by example regarding #3]<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 14:39:19 EST<BR>
From: "Roger Barr" <travelergm@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: fashion<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, those who wear vacc suits of a higher TL would only need to have long <BR>
hair braided to keep from having problems.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, Nick, I got drawn in as well...<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
Roger<BR>
TravelerGM@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
>To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: fashion<BR>
>Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:09:17 -0000<BR>
><BR>
> >You could, conceivably, suffocate if you had enough hair in a helmet like<BR>
> >that.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>NASA suits have form-fitting hoods under the helmets, ISTR. That would seem<BR>
>to be the obvious solution.<BR>
><BR>
>Nick<BR>
>+++<BR>
>Keep up the hair discussion. I'm getting drawn into it.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 20:47:01 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: The OT Flame War Postings<BR>
<BR>
"Trevor, Peter" wrote:<BR>
> How about a separate list just for TML flame wars?<BR>
<BR>
Actually, that has been tried :-)<BR>
<BR>
On another RPG list (Rolemaster) that I am on, a second list called<BR>
"Rolemaster-chat" was created. Discussions straying too far off topic<BR>
and refusing to die are moved to that list.<BR>
<BR>
The odd thing is... it seems to work pretty well.<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 20:56:35 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> Secondly, the Vilani lived in a hostile environment which means that<BR>
> they are going to wear clothes.<BR>
<BR>
And they are NOT going to change their behaviour simply because it's<BR>
warm and comfortable enough...<BR>
<BR>
> And most men aren't too comfortable letting their dangly bits just<BR>
> dangle.<BR>
<BR>
"OPEN THE BLAST DOORS! OPEN THE BLAST DOORS!"<BR>
- - Star Wars<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, couldn't resist  :-)<BR>
<BR>
> I can see minimal clothing but I can't see none.  I think something<BR>
> like briefies would be essential and any woman with enough up top to<BR>
> jiggle would want a sports bra.  If you have to run and your chest<BR>
> bounces, it may look cute but it HURTS.<BR>
<BR>
Minimal clothing might be something like the garments worn in Star Trek.<BR>
Soft and comfortable, but not much protection really.<BR>
<BR>
Arrogance would probably be a factor as well. Most ship captains<BR>
wouldn't want themselves and their crew dressed as savages when they are<BR>
in fact civilized beings. Clothes are also a wonderful status indicator,<BR>
both in military (uniforms) and non-military (Armani suit vs blue jeans<BR>
and t-shirt) cases.<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:53:14 -0800<BR>
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > Given a few thousand years<BR>
> > and exposeure to alien races and  cultures  would  the  crews  of<BR>
> > climate controlled ships wear any  clothes?<BR>
> ><BR>
> Kiri Aradia Morgan<BR>
><BR>
> I can't imagine this.  For one thing, the Imperial language is Galanglic,<BR>
> which means that Solomani culture is of western origin and that western<BR>
> values are dominant.  You know, since the Meiji Restoration and<BR>
> westernization of Japan, people don't even do mixed-gender nude bathing<BR>
> over there any more!<BR>
><BR>
> Secondly, the Vilani lived in a hostile environment which means that they<BR>
> are going to wear clothes.<BR>
><BR>
> Thirdly... as a female.... I don't want to be too crude here... but there<BR>
> are valid reasons for at least a loincloth and most cultures do at least<BR>
> wear some kind of skirt/briefs.  To put it bluntly, I don't want to sit on<BR>
> a chair that another woman has been sitting in not wearing any panties.<BR>
> ESPECIALLY not 3-7 days out of every 28 or so, but really not at any time.<BR>
> And most men aren't too comfortable letting their dangly bits just dangle.<BR>
><BR>
> I can see minimal clothing but I can't see none.  I think something like<BR>
> briefies would be essential and any woman with enough up top to jiggle<BR>
> would want a sports bra.  If you have to run and your chest bounces, it<BR>
> may look cute but it HURTS.<BR>
><BR>
> Besides, I wouldn't want to work with heavy equipment with my nipples<BR>
> exposed.  And when I'm in the lab I want proper attire.<BR>
><BR>
I've alway thought the dress on board ship (for crew) would be the pocket<BR>
covered overall. Passangers (depending on the size of the ship) would be<BR>
dress in anything from shorts and t-shirts to formal wear for dinnining at<BR>
the captains table. But always some kind of cover (don't need to give the<BR>
space dogs any ideas above there station in life/distractions from there<BR>
work)<BR>
<BR>
Wayne<BR>
wewart@home.com<BR>
icq22113294<BR>
http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/<BR>
<BR>
"It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion,<BR>
By the beans of Java, my thoughts acquire speed,<BR>
The hands acquire the shakes, the shakes become a warning,<BR>
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1674<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1675</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 5 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1675<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Vargr fashions (was RE: fashions)<BR>
Re: More letters from the front lines...<BR>
Re: The OT Flame War Postings<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Vs: OT (w/penguines): Reality<BR>
re:  Clothes of the 3I <BR>
Re: Vargr fashions (was RE: fashions)<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions (was RE: fashions)<BR>
RE: Vargr fashions (was RE: fashions)<BR>
RE: fashion<BR>
re: More Letters from the front lines...<BR>
Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and Tech Level 2 and printing)<BR>
Re: Laws of physics<BR>
re: More Letters from the front lines...<BR>
re:  Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
re: More letters from the front...<BR>
Re: Power Explosions<BR>
RE: Confusing Quoting<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Re SolConfed<BR>
re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
Re: "Family"<BR>
RE: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:51:09 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Vargr fashions (was RE: fashions)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
<BR>
>Of course, GDW's art would  have  reflected  contemporary  <BR>
>modes  of modesty, but perhaps the 'reality' is that all IN <BR>
>crews (etc) are nude! <BR>
<BR>
The question that has long bothered me in this regard is, why do<BR>
Vargr wear clothes at all?  It makes sense to wear armor, vacc<BR>
suits, overalls for dirty work, extreme weather gear, and even<BR>
camouflage, but clothes qua clothes?.  Their fur surely keeps<BR>
them warm enough in temperate conditions, and they can pant when<BR>
it's hot (and clothes would probably make them hotter, even if<BR>
the clothes reflected some sunlight).  <BR>
<BR>
I can't imagine sexual modesty being much of an issue for a race<BR>
geneered from Terran canines, but even if it is, why wear<BR>
shirts?  <BR>
<BR>
Do they shave under their clothes?  <BR>
<BR>
Do they dye their fur in different colors and patterns?  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 11:47:45<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: More letters from the front lines...<BR>
<BR>
At 02:15 PM 1/5/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>(Well, actually from the rear areas)<BR>
><BR>
>//Trace information suppressed for security reasons//<BR>
>//This communication should be considered insecure//<BR>
>//Do not transmit any logistical or operational information//<BR>
><BR>
>Mother,<BR>
><BR>
>Sorry I haven't written more often. Since our liner was called up by<BR>
>the auxiliaries, we've been pretty much travelling in convoys. We<BR>
>haven't even had a planetfall in months, so there really hasn't been<BR>
>that much to tell. I think we've had escorts around us, but that new<BR>
>Navy officer "helping out" on the bridge never lets us see anything.<BR>
<BR>
NAVAL CENSOR: Strike last sentence in paragraph.  Shows ImpNav personnel in<BR>
poor light.<BR>
<BR>
>We ran out of standard food supplies last month, and ever since then<BR>
>we've been eating what we pick up from the Navy supply ships. <BR>
>Geoffe - you remember Geoffe, we had him to the villa when I was last<BR>
>home, he went to the same Culinary Institute as your house chef<BR>
>Jeanna did? - does what he can with it, but every meal still has a<BR>
>certain sameness to the tastes.<BR>
<BR>
NAVAL CENSOR: Strike paragraph.  Shows ImpNav in negative light, cf:<BR>
quality of food.<BR>
<BR>
>We've been carrying soldiers between military bases, so I guess we're<BR>
>pretty far from the dangerous areas. These troopers, every one of them,<BR>
>they travel like debutante teenagers on holiday. All they do is watch<BR>
>trideos, gamble and sleep - when they aren't squabbling, that is. I spoke<BR>
>to one of their sergeants about it, he said the troops always behaved like <BR>
>this on an auxiliary ship...that they'd settle down once they were on a <BR>
>"real" Navy transport. <sigh><BR>
<BR>
NAVAL CENSOR: Strike paragraph.  Information that could be considered<BR>
sensitive to operational security.<BR>
<BR>
>I guess we have the dubious honor of taking them somewhere where<BR>
>many of them will get killed, so we shouldn't complain. But really, some<BR>
>of these people are from such nice places, you'd think they would know<BR>
>how to behave themselves. Maybe they do, they're just acting this way<BR>
>because they think this is how brave soldiers act on the way to the front.<BR>
><BR>
>Maybe if we weren't so crowded it would help. Lately, going down to the<BR>
>passenger deck, it smells like...I don't know what it smells like, a locker<BR>
>room or something. A locker room with the air scrubbers all gummed<BR>
>up.<BR>
><BR>
>I was so looking forward to being home during the Founder's Day season.<BR>
>The liner was supposed to be laying over there for maintenance, you<BR>
>were getting me that wonderful outfit from Cham Chillon...oh well. There's<BR>
>always next year, the company surely won't let them keep our liner<BR>
>in auxiliary service much longer than this.<BR>
<BR>
NAVAL CENSOR: Strike last clause of last sentence.  Insinuates a rift<BR>
between firm providing Naval Auxiliary and ImpNav.<BR>
<BR>
>It just burns me to have to watch the trideos of the Founder's Day Ball<BR>
>like some kind of day worker...Grrr!<BR>
><BR>
>Have Pater lay up some of that Port I like for when I get back, and<BR>
>let me know how the season went. <BR>
><BR>
>Love,<BR>
><BR>
>Darcinia<BR>
<BR>
CLEARED FOR TRANSMISSION WITH NOTED CHANGES.<BR>
<BR>
Toullin, R.<BR>
LT, INI<BR>
048-1109<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 11:51:41<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The OT Flame War Postings<BR>
<BR>
At 08:47 PM 1/5/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>On another RPG list (Rolemaster) that I am on, a second list called<BR>
>"Rolemaster-chat" was created. Discussions straying too far off topic<BR>
>and refusing to die are moved to that list.<BR>
><BR>
>The odd thing is... it seems to work pretty well.<BR>
<BR>
That's why I created the Traveller in SF list.  there seemed to be a number<BR>
of us, and it wasn't fair to everbody else for us to take up bandwidth on<BR>
the TML planning games and BayCon meetings.<BR>
<BR>
As Mao said, let a thousand flowers bloom!  If the TML isn't meeting a<BR>
particular niche need of yours, set up a list of your own that can serve<BR>
you and others in the same boat as you are.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:03:15 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
>From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
>The word you are looking for is "irony".  Some people on the <BR>
>TML might like to know that it dosen't usually mean "made out <BR>
>of iron".<BR>
<BR>
I see some mock-heraldrese in the future.  Kenji's coat of arms<BR>
should contain something like "irony of phallus, a Sayat<BR>
regardant sourant sable".<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:10:26 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Vs: OT (w/penguines): Reality<BR>
<BR>
> Alan Bradley said:<BR>
<BR>
> > (Does all this mean that my reality anchor really wasn't all that<BR>
> > Y2K-proof? Or does it just need new batteries?)<BR>
> <BR>
> Funny, I thought reality anchors were GTL 8 technology....<BR>
> <BR>
Hey, we're living in the year 2000, it's already GTL 8.<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:05:30 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Clothes of the 3I <BR>
<BR>
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
>Subject: re:  Clothes of the 3I <BR>
>> Doesn't everybody just wear black tshirts and jeans, except <BR>
>>when they're wearing camouflage?<BR>
> No, those are the players.  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
I was reaching for a state of Kenji with that post.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:08:13 -0800<BR>
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions (was RE: fashions)<BR>
<BR>
> --Glenn asked<BR>
> <BR>
> The question that has long bothered me in this regard is, why do<BR>
> Vargr wear clothes at all?  <BR>
> <BR>
Its a statis thing, barbarians run around nude, civilizied people dress up<BR>
<BR>
Wayne<BR>
wewart@home.com<BR>
icq22113294<BR>
http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/<BR>
<BR>
Give a man fire and he is warm for the night.<BR>
Set a man on fire and he is warm all his life.<BR>
- - Terry Pratchett<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:09:01 -0800<BR>
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions (was RE: fashions)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Glenn Goffin" <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
To: "traveller mailing aa list" <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 11:51 AM<BR>
Subject: Vargr fashions (was RE: fashions)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
> <BR>
> >Of course, GDW's art would  have  reflected  contemporary  <BR>
> >modes  of modesty, but perhaps the 'reality' is that all IN <BR>
> >crews (etc) are nude! <BR>
> <BR>
> The question that has long bothered me in this regard is, why do<BR>
> Vargr wear clothes at all?  It makes sense to wear armor, vacc<BR>
> suits, overalls for dirty work, extreme weather gear, and even<BR>
> camouflage, but clothes qua clothes?.  Their fur surely keeps<BR>
> them warm enough in temperate conditions, and they can pant when<BR>
> it's hot (and clothes would probably make them hotter, even if<BR>
> the clothes reflected some sunlight).  <BR>
> <BR>
> I can't imagine sexual modesty being much of an issue for a race<BR>
> geneered from Terran canines, but even if it is, why wear<BR>
> shirts?  <BR>
> <BR>
> Do they shave under their clothes?  <BR>
> <BR>
> Do they dye their fur in different colors and patterns?  <BR>
> <BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
> http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:09:43 -0600 <BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Vargr fashions (was RE: fashions)<BR>
<BR>
> From: Glenn Goffin [mailto:gmgoffin@yahoo.com]<BR>
> <BR>
> The question that has long bothered me in this regard is, why do<BR>
> Vargr wear clothes at all?<BR>
<BR>
For many reasons:<BR>
1. Status symbols- like humans use clothes for.  Who is in charge, what<BR>
business you work for, what is your job, etc.<BR>
<BR>
2. Protection - from the wind, rain, cold, or maybe we don't like the feel<BR>
of those naga-hide chairs sticking to our tails in hot weather.<BR>
<BR>
3. Ornamentation - like many humans pierce their ears (a habit also known<BR>
amongst the Vargr).  Clothes allow one to express yourself.  Loud colors are<BR>
optional, scents are not.  There are many businesses that will embed a scent<BR>
(or more than one) in a piece of clothing for you for a mere pittance.  The<BR>
Vargr who smells soapy fresh and clean will find few mates amongst the pack.<BR>
Unlimber that debitchit, Pup!<BR>
<BR>
4. Utility - pockets, belts to hang equipment off of, a place to attach my<BR>
security pass (with a pic of one really great smelling Vargr - *me*).  <BR>
<BR>
> I can't imagine sexual modesty being much of an issue for a race<BR>
> geneered from Terran canines, but even if it is, why wear<BR>
> shirts?  <BR>
<BR>
Because, by definition, you have to in order to wear an *Hawaiian* shirt<BR>
(with just a hint of pineapple and roast suckling scent added.  Yum yum!) <BR>
<BR>
Besides, nipples do get cold when you are upright.<BR>
<BR>
> Do they shave under their clothes?  <BR>
<BR>
Only our hairdressers know for sure!<BR>
 <BR>
> Do they dye their fur in different colors and patterns?  <BR>
<BR>
Sure, some do, and for more reasons as you can wag a tail at.  Festival,<BR>
ceremony, sports events - all are used as excuses to color up.<BR>
<BR>
 -- vargr1                                              UPP-8D9B85 --<BR>
The three principle virtues of a good programmer   | dmoody@bridge-dot-com<BR>
 are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris.             | vargr1@jcn1-dot-com<BR>
             ** Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina. **           <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:12:21 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: fashion<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
>Except if one has mastered the Gel.  I can picture the scene of<BR>
<BR>
>belters and their ilk with transition hair firmly slicked back,<BR>
<BR>
>strutting about a station looking like holovid villains. "Dry <BR>
>hair is for squids."<BR>
<BR>
Family dinner with the Belters:<BR>
<BR>
"He hit my hair!  I spent a lot of time on my hair, and he hits<BR>
it!"<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:07:53 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: More Letters from the front lines...<BR>
<BR>
Message, as transmitted, once cleared by ImpNavCommSec, <BR>
SMFleetSec, CivAuxCommSec, ImpLiaisonOff, and ImpNavInfOff:<BR>
<BR>
Mother,<BR>
<BR>
//Censored//<BR>
<BR>
Love,<BR>
<BR>
Darcinia<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 20:20:47 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk><BR>
Subject: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and Tech Level 2 and printing)<BR>
<BR>
>Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
><<snips discussion of unreality of televised penguins>>>><BR>
>><BR>
>> > (Does all this mean that my reality anchor really wasn't all that<BR>
>> > Y2K-proof? Or does it just need new batteries?)<BR>
>><BR>
>> Funny, I thought reality anchors were GTL 8 technology....<BR>
><BR>
>C'mon, we've had that level of tech for nearly a week, now....<BR>
><BR>
>><BR>
>> Alan Bradley<BR>
>> alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Well, in CT TL9 was listed as 'circa 1990 to 2000'.  See any laser rifles,<BR>
air/rafts, jumps drives around?  2000 must be a good year.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 07:45:20<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
<BR>
At 12:54 PM 1/5/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Can I ask the assembled brilliance on this list how feasible it would be to<BR>
>have a TL 2 world that hasn't developed printing yet?  Would it be within<BR>
>the margins of 'variation' for TL development or would it be a pretty basic<BR>
>requirement for achieving that tech level?<BR>
<BR>
I could see it, but the spread of technology would be much slower.  So it<BR>
would stay TL 2 for a long time.<BR>
- - --<BR>
In Grand Census the world TL is just an average and TL for specific areas<BR>
(such as communications) could easily be higher or lower.<BR>
<BR>
I could imagine a society where a group has a monopoly/responsibility for<BR>
reproduction of manuscripts manually and development of a printing press is<BR>
delayed at least until TL3.<BR>
<BR>
How about societies that never develop writing.  What TL could be reached<BR>
based on an oral tradition?  I would think maybe TL4.<BR>
<BR>
Mark.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:21:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Laws of physics<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >They lower your sanity, which can lower your life expectancy.  (I've read a<BR>
> >lot of Mythos stuff and could at that time do most trivia quizzes on it--<BR>
> on<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> errr... no.<BR>
> <BR>
> You've read a lot of fiction which used a hypothetical Mythos as a backdrop.<BR>
> You don't have Cthulhu Mythos *Skill* per CoC. If you did you would *know*<BR>
> that this stuff is real, and that hellish abominations from beyond *really<BR>
> are* out to enslave/destroy the earth. Otherwise any player who had read the<BR>
> rule book would have a good 40 - 50% Mythos score.<BR>
> <BR>
At that time, I was writing Mythos fanfics for my girlfriend, who thought<BR>
that the whole idea of the deep ones and the transformation was rather<BR>
erotic (she was strange).  She had a way of looking at things that made<BR>
you question the morality of the human side.  After all, the thing about<BR>
Mythos nasties is that while they do want to take over the world, they<BR>
never really hurt anyone unless that person chooses to involve themselves<BR>
with the whole issue.  Most Lovecraft characters have a zillion chances to<BR>
get out before they finally get into something they can't handle.  I was<BR>
writing the Lamentations of Lost Innsmouth, and the guy looked at that and<BR>
at my occult library and said. "No.  No Way."<BR>
<BR>
I'm not into it like I used to be.  I CERTAINLY never believed in it!<BR>
Actually the only gamers I meet that are convinced of the reality of a<BR>
certain fantasy world are always into Tolkien.  I've met so many loopy<BR>
Wiccanish sorts that are convinced that Elbereth Gilthoniel is real.  And<BR>
insert it into anything.  Yes, the Quendi and the Sindar-- in Traveller!<BR>
Seriously, I was in a Traveller campaign where we encountered them.<BR>
<BR>
It's just that whenever I am into anything, I am into it.<BR>
<BR>
I understand what you are saying, but the ref of that game thought that I,<BR>
Kiri, was just not something he wanted to have in his game.  As a player,<BR>
sure, as a character, no.  It was his decision, not mine.  You would allow<BR>
me, and with a low score.  HE insisted that I had to have a Mythos of at<BR>
least 20-30% and should not be a PC.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:21:38<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: re: More Letters from the front lines...<BR>
<BR>
At 03:07 PM 1/5/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Message, as transmitted, once cleared by ImpNavCommSec, <BR>
>SMFleetSec, CivAuxCommSec, ImpLiaisonOff, and ImpNavInfOff:<BR>
><BR>
>Mother,<BR>
><BR>
>//Censored//<BR>
><BR>
>Love,<BR>
><BR>
>Darcinia<BR>
<BR>
Oh, come on.. I let more than that through.<BR>
<BR>
But I have seen a letter in the US Army Infantry Museum, that read:<BR>
<BR>
"Mum,<BR>
<BR>
  I'm not allowed to tell you where we are, where we're going, what we're<BR>
supposed to do when we get there, or how long we'll be there.<BR>
<BR>
I think I'm allowed to say I'm your son, and that I miss you terribly.<BR>
<BR>
Love,"<BR>
><BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:27:51 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
>I strongly doubt that adventurers, whatever their prior<BR>
>service may be, go out drinking, go shopping, or go on dates <BR>
>wearing flight suits.  I was curious as to what people would <BR>
>wear when theywere not working on the engines or operating <BR>
>heavy machinery. Let's face it, most of us want to get out of <BR>
>our work clothes ASAP once we're off duty unless we're one of <BR>
>two sorts:<BR>
<BR>
That's true no matter what the work clothes are.  I only wear a<BR>
suit to court or other proceedings, and I take almost always<BR>
take it off and put on jeans or khakis immediately after the<BR>
hearing (usually in the courthouse bathroom).  (I do have a job<BR>
where the office dress code matches my personal tastes<BR>
perfectly.)<BR>
<BR>
Ob Traveller:  So what will people wear in the Far Future?  The<BR>
biggest problem with this discussion is its size.  There are so<BR>
many cultures just within the Imperium that it's difficult to<BR>
get a handle on fashion.  <BR>
<BR>
How can we break this into manageable chunks?  By cultural<BR>
region maybe?  For example, I liked DGP's work on Vilani style<BR>
in Vilani & Vargr.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 09:01:49 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
<BR>
At 03:18 05.01.00 , you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> > LKW (which does not stand for "landkraftwagen")<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
>G'arn, it doessssss...<BR>
<BR>
No, Loren is right, in fact LKW stands for LASTkraftwagen, not <BR>
Landkraftwagen ;-)<BR>
<BR>
As in Load, not as in land ....<BR>
<BR>
BTW: I genuinely LOVE americans trying to use German words in their works.<BR>
To native Speakers, its very humorous indeed, as mostly tiny errors mess <BR>
up the whole meaning.<BR>
As in "Heute die Welt, morgens das Sonnensystem" (Today the world, in the <BR>
morning the solar System) ;-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:28:32 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: More letters from the front...<BR>
<BR>
Doug Berry wrote:<BR>
> Oh, come on.. I let more than that through.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yup. But you were just playing *one* of the censors in the long line <BR>
of those who got their mitts on that message. <G><BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 20:16:05 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Power Explosions<BR>
<BR>
At 23:57 -0500 4/1/00, Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net> wrote:<BR>
>	The best Traveller reference I've seen for cargo giving PC problems is<BR>
>the Hazardous Cargo article in Challenge #31. An update for GT in<BR>
>Pyramid would make an interesting addition to GT:FT.<BR>
<BR>
If this was Marcus Rowland's article with the Hazard codes, then they <BR>
have been adapted and included in 101 Cargos from BITS.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 20:30:56 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
At 12:12 -0500 5/1/00, "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com> wrote:<BR>
>In Outlook98 select "Options" from the "Tools" menu and then from<BR>
>the "Preferences" tab "E-mail options" button.  There  set  "when<BR>
>replying to a message" to  "Prefix  each  line  of  the  original<BR>
>message", and "Prefix each line with" to ">".<BR>
<BR>
Is Outlook 97 for NT4 similar?<BR>
<BR>
At home I use Eudora Pro 4.2<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 20:45:12 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
At 12:12 -0500 5/1/00, Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>The word you are looking for is "irony".  Some people on the TML might<BR>
>like to know that it dosen't usually mean "made out of iron".<BR>
<BR>
<splort> +4.0 as it didn't quite make the nasal passages.<BR>
<BR>
cf Alanis Morrisette 'Isn't it Ironic?' - Ensemble 'NO! '<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:11:57 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Re SolConfed<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >(I also think -- see? I'm taking the list's advice, or pretending to --<BR>
> >that technically, there weren't any _pogroms_ under the Soviet regime.<BR>
> >Purges are different.  Ask your local SolSec Monitor for an educational<BR>
> >pamphlet-cum-request form.)<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Weren't the pogroms under the Czars?<BR>
<BR>
Yes -- but the Tsars and the Soviets found each other "incompossible", as<BR>
Ambrose Bierce defined it :)<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 13:14:27 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
> At 14:49 -0500 4/1/00, Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com> wrote:<BR>
> >It seems that a lot of people's mail programs don't use the convention<BR>
> >of prepending greater-than signs (>) to quoted text in replies, but<BR>
> >instead use some sort of horizontal separator. <BR>
> <BR>
> ISTR that outlook can't do this easily? Certainly my work a/c version <BR>
> won't do it. Anyone know how?<BR>
<BR>
In Outlook-97, it's Tools->Options->Internet E-mail; "[] when replying<BR>
to messages, indent original text with [>]".<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:21:35 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: "Family"<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Jason T. Barnabas wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> LSLISTD [Score: 1 pt]<BR>
<BR>
Huh?  LSLISTD?  Is that like acid, cut with the the list?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:15:11 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: RE: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF5798.0BA56F20<BR>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR>
<BR>
I have Outlook 97 on Windows 95. Under Tools>Options I have Email as a <BR>
choice, not Internet Email, and the Email choice doesn't have the options<BR>
for replying to a message, the Read tab does. However, the choices in<BR>
the Read tab for replying to a message only allow me to indent the<BR>
included text, they do not include adding a character.<BR>
<BR>
If I had more room on my hard drive, I'd get tech services here to upgrade<BR>
my software. <BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF5798.0BA56F20<BR>
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF5798.0BA56F20--<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1675<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1676</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 5 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1676<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: fashions<BR>
Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!<BR>
Re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
RE: Vargr fashions <BR>
Re: "Family"<BR>
Re: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and Tech Level 2 and printing)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
Live in fear<BR>
Re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!<BR>
RE: Vargr fashions <BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
RE: Quotations<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
RE: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
RE: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and Tech Level 2 and printing)<BR>
RE: Vargr fashions <BR>
RE: Re Small Things<BR>
RE: fashions<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: Overbearing characters (was Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie)<BR>
RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
Re: Hyphen for Emperor!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:29:36 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
On 5 Jan 00, at 11:29, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Besides, I wouldn't want to work with heavy equipment with my nipples<BR>
> exposed.  And when I'm in the lab I want proper attire.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, well as a man I wouldn't want to anywhere near machinery with <BR>
rollers or stampie things when I was nude. Aside from unpleasnatly <BR>
messy I have this funny feeling that it might be somewhat painful.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:29:36 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!<BR>
<BR>
On 5 Jan 00, at 11:47, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
<BR>
[My previous post snipped for Kenji's (and others) benefit :)<BR>
<BR>
> I think it may be more useful to distinguish between the Solomani Party<BR>
> and the Solomani Confederation on one hand, and between ideology and<BR>
> government praxis on the other.  ISTM that the _ideology_ of the Solomani<BR>
> Party, and many of the _Party's_ operations and structure, are akin to<BR>
> Nazis'.<BR>
<BR>
I always read the Party's structure as being more like that of the <BR>
Soviet communist party more than that of the Nazi party. The ideology <BR>
OTOH is Nazi-like for sure.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:36:57 -0800<BR>
From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
And if you are running Outlook Express go<BR>
tools>options>send<BR>
make sure  plain text is selected and then click on settings<BR>
check indent  and use the pull tab to get ><BR>
(deep sigh and in the next release it will be completely different)<BR>
<BR>
Dave<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com' <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 1:23 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I have Outlook 97 on Windows 95. Under Tools>Options I have Email as a <BR>
>choice, not Internet Email, and the Email choice doesn't have the options<BR>
>for replying to a message, the Read tab does. However, the choices in<BR>
>the Read tab for replying to a message only allow me to indent the<BR>
>included text, they do not include adding a character.<BR>
><BR>
>If I had more room on my hard drive, I'd get tech services here to upgrade<BR>
>my software. <BR>
><BR>
>Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:41:27 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Vargr fashions <BR>
<BR>
>From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
>Subject: RE: Vargr fashions (was RE: fashions)<BR>
>> From: Glenn Goffin [mailto:gmgoffin@yahoo.com]> <BR>
>> The question that has long bothered me in this regard is, why<BR>
>>do Vargr wear clothes at all?<BR>
>For many reasons:<BR>
<BR>
Those were pretty good reasons.  I especially like the<BR>
scent-embedded clothing (which makes it easier to change scents<BR>
from casual roast pork and pineapple to formal light woodsmoke)<BR>
and the idea of Vargr in Hawaiian shirts (which will be how I<BR>
paint the next Vargr miniature).<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 13:34:17<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "Family"<BR>
<BR>
At 04:21 PM 1/5/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Jason T. Barnabas wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> LSLISTD [Score: 1 pt]<BR>
><BR>
>Huh?  LSLISTD?  Is that like acid, cut with the the list?<BR>
<BR>
I actually focused on the last three letters...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 13:38:23<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and Tech Level 2 and printing)<BR>
<BR>
At 08:20 PM 1/5/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Well, in CT TL9 was listed as 'circa 1990 to 2000'.  See any laser rifles,<BR>
>air/rafts, jumps drives around?  2000 must be a good year.<BR>
<BR>
The Templars have all of th..mmmmmppphhhhh...<BR>
<BR>
>How about societies that never develop writing.  What TL could be reached<BR>
>based on an oral tradition?  I would think maybe TL4.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think so.. just about every culture that advanced out of the stone<BR>
age has developed writing.  It might be one of those vital links that<BR>
allows the culture to step up another notch.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 13:39:31<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
<BR>
At 09:01 AM 1/5/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>BTW: I genuinely LOVE americans trying to use German words in their works.<BR>
>To native Speakers, its very humorous indeed, as mostly tiny errors mess <BR>
>up the whole meaning.<BR>
>As in "Heute die Welt, morgens das Sonnensystem" (Today the world, in the <BR>
>morning the solar System) ;-)<BR>
<BR>
My roommate's favorite:  JFK announcing to the world "I am a jelly<BR>
doughnut!"<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 13:44:20<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Live in fear<BR>
<BR>
As various TMLers stand around, warming themselves over the dying embers of<BR>
the latest flame war, Penguin Boy stumbles in.<BR>
<BR>
He's a mess.  Half insane.  Gibbering.<BR>
<BR>
Nobody notices anything different.<BR>
<BR>
"Repent!  Repaint!  Use two coats, for the SILLY ERA has been updated!!!"<BR>
<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/silytrav.html<BR>
<BR>
Suddenly, Loren's voice booms through the hallways.. "Pengiun Boy!  What<BR>
are you doing here slacking?  Back to writing, you wretch!" *crack*<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:53:00 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
Here's what you do.<BR>
<BR>
Goto the menu bar and click on  Tools, then Options.<BR>
<BR>
You should receive a dialog box with seven tabs at the top.  click on the<BR>
Send tab.<BR>
<BR>
In this window you will see a section for Mail sending format.  Their will<BR>
be a bullet for HTML and a bullet for plain text.  To the right of each<BR>
bullet is a Settings button.  click the Settings button next to the plain<BR>
text bullet.<BR>
<BR>
You will receive the Plain Text Settings dialog box.  At the bottom of this<BR>
box is a check box for indicating an indent on qoted material as well as as<BR>
a drop down arrow for your choice of character to reflect quoted material.<BR>
<BR>
Make your selections and click the OK button.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I have Outlook 97 on Windows 95. Under Tools>Options I have Email as a<BR>
>choice, not Internet Email, and the Email choice doesn't have the options<BR>
>for replying to a message, the Read tab does. However, the choices in<BR>
>the Read tab for replying to a message only allow me to indent the<BR>
>included text, they do not include adding a character.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 21:48:18 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
>Yes, well as a man I wouldn't want to anywhere near machinery with<BR>
rollers or stampie things when I was nude. Aside from unpleasnatly<BR>
messy I have this funny feeling that it might be somewhat painful.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Owww....my eyes are watering now. (Not enough to damage the keyboard<BR>
though).<BR>
<BR>
And why, in an unrelated matter, does my mailer indent and '>' everybody's<BR>
posts except yours?<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 13:55:01 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> I can't imagine sexual modesty being much of an issue for a race<BR>
> geneered from Terran canines, but even if it is, why wear<BR>
> shirts?<BR>
<BR>
How about races descended from Terran apes? Would they have sexual <BR>
modesty? I mean besides Kenji.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 13:47:52<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!<BR>
<BR>
At 10:29 AM 1/6/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I always read the Party's structure as being more like that of the <BR>
>Soviet communist party more than that of the Nazi party. The ideology <BR>
>OTOH is Nazi-like for sure.<BR>
<BR>
If you scratch a little deeper, and substitute Pure Solomani for Great<BR>
Russian, the needle swings more towards the Soviet/NKVD/KGB model, IMHO.<BR>
<BR>
Only the most radical of the Solomani actually pushed for a jihad against<BR>
non-human intelligences.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 13:50:12<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Vargr fashions <BR>
<BR>
At 01:41 PM 1/5/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Those were pretty good reasons.  I especially like the<BR>
>scent-embedded clothing (which makes it easier to change scents<BR>
>from casual roast pork and pineapple to formal light woodsmoke)<BR>
>and the idea of Vargr in Hawaiian shirts (which will be how I<BR>
>paint the next Vargr miniature).<BR>
<BR>
It's odd.  One of the NPCs I've written up for GF is a Vargr Sylean ranger<BR>
who wears blacks and greys and refuses to acknowledge Vargr culture, except<BR>
to teach it to Officer cadets.<BR>
<BR>
I'd love to see him painted up amongst some of the other Vargr.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 13:56:41<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
At 09:48 PM 1/5/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR>
>Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
>>Yes, well as a man I wouldn't want to anywhere near machinery with<BR>
>rollers or stampie things when I was nude. Aside from unpleasnatly<BR>
>messy I have this funny feeling that it might be somewhat painful.<BR>
><BR>
>Owww....my eyes are watering now. (Not enough to damage the keyboard<BR>
>though).<BR>
<BR>
This is known in the business as the "squick" factor.  The same thing that<BR>
will make 40,000 men at a ballgame reflexively curl up when a player gets<BR>
hit someplce.. important to his continured family.<BR>
<BR>
>And why, in an unrelated matter, does my mailer indent and '>' everybody's<BR>
>posts except yours?<BR>
<BR>
I think Rupert's posts come through with each paragraph seen as a single<BR>
line. You get the one ">" at the beginning of each paragraph.<BR>
<BR>
Compared to some of the formatting I've seen (and been guilty of) it's<BR>
nothing.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:05:23 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Quotations<BR>
<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Peter Newman<BR>
> I think that it might be a good thing if some members<BR>
> of the list snipped posts they are responding to<BR>
> instead of simply quoting the whole thing, which is a<BR>
> waste of space. I _suggest_ (not demand) that it might<BR>
> be a good thing if quotes were snipped a bit more.<BR>
<BR>
I second that, Peter. <BR>
Excessive (over four lines) sigs are also annoying.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:07:01 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
>I think Rupert's posts come through with each paragraph seen as a single<BR>
>line. You get the one ">" at the beginning of each paragraph.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
No, I put those in manually.<BR>
<BR>
NB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:12:13 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
<BR>
> Can I ask the assembled brilliance on this list how feasible it<BR>
> would be to<BR>
> have a TL 2 world that hasn't developed printing yet?  Would it be within<BR>
> the margins of 'variation' for TL development or would it be a<BR>
> pretty basic<BR>
> requirement for achieving that tech level?<BR>
<BR>
Very feasible, especially if the place developed voice recorders first due<BR>
to some strange local circumstances.<BR>
<BR>
A real world example is the Inca, they used knotted and multi-coloured<BR>
strings for most recording (other than some ceremonial graphic work) thus<BR>
the idea of printing the information wouldn't make sense.<BR>
<BR>
A nomadic culture might just rely on people trained to memorize things.<BR>
Printing only makes sense if you have a written language, and written<BR>
languages do not fit all cultures.<BR>
<BR>
If alien, consider a scent-based culture, and the appropriate means of<BR>
recording that.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:15:35 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and Tech Level 2 and printing)<BR>
<BR>
On Wednesday, January 05, 2000 1:38 PM<BR>
Douglas E. Berry said,<BR>
<BR>
> I don't think so.. just about every culture that advanced out of the<BR>
stone<BR>
> age has developed writing.  It might be one of those vital links that<BR>
> allows the culture to step up another notch.<BR>
<BR>
I think you might be able to do it without writing specifically, but you<BR>
need something to fill that area of longer term knowledge<BR>
storage/retrieval.<BR>
<BR>
Long life spans with total recall might allow for enough knowledge to be<BR>
accumulated and passed on for technology development to get along a fair<BR>
step without actual writing, although the concept of inorganic storage<BR>
for things like computers and such might be hard to come by.<BR>
Abstract/symbolic representation need for programming and such would be<BR>
difficult.<BR>
<BR>
I had a humanitii offshoot that grew up on a planet that had some<BR>
Ancient bio-tech gone wild.  One of the creatures was a "natural" tape<BR>
recorder being able to record and replay sound.  The people of the world<BR>
domesticated these small flyers at an early tech level and used them to<BR>
send messages and archive important information so writing never really<BR>
took off.  They had the beginnings of a pictographic writing system that<BR>
developed from there art but it was more along the lines of the old<BR>
flower codes and such.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
======<BR>
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those<BR>
who have not got it."  -George Bernard Shaw<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:17:36 -0600 <BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Vargr fashions <BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Glenn Goffin [mailto:gmgoffin@yahoo.com]<BR>
<BR>
> Those were pretty good reasons.  I especially like the<BR>
> scent-embedded clothing (which makes it easier to change scents<BR>
> from casual roast pork and pineapple to formal light woodsmoke)<BR>
> and the idea of Vargr in Hawaiian shirts (which will be how I<BR>
> paint the next Vargr miniature).<BR>
<BR>
A player in a former campaign is responsible for that.  The Captain of the<BR>
_Cerebral Carnage_, Ahz Dueth, had a closet full of Hawaiian shirts that he<BR>
would strut around the starports in.  Between him and Ramone (the ex-Navy<BR>
gunner with a knack for interior decorating) they got into a world of<BR>
trouble.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, those were the days, my friend... (da da de dum dum...)<BR>
<BR>
vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85<BR>
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.<BR>
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ                vargr1@jcn1*com<BR>
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."      dmoody@bridge*com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:22:58 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Re Small Things<BR>
<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Walter Smith<BR>
<BR>
> There's nothing to stop a manufacturer from putting a microgram-sized<BR>
> data storage device in a pencil-sized, cheap plastic handle.<BR>
<BR>
Cyberpunk "cred-sticks" are an example<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:38:26 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>Subject: RE:<BR>
fashions<BR>
<BR>
>I think something like briefies would be essential and any <BR>
>woman with enough up top to jiggle would want a sports bra.  <BR>
<BR>
If Captain Kirk were not constrained by Starfleet's harassment<BR>
policy:<BR>
<BR>
*************************<BR>
Memorandum<BR>
To:        All Hands<BR>
From:      The Captain<BR>
Re:        Appropriate Attire<BR>
Stardate:  135.1107<BR>
<BR>
It has come to my attention that some of the crew have been<BR>
violating ship ops handbook section 35.3, which I quote:  "In<BR>
non-alert zero-G conditions, uniform for female human crew<BR>
members shall consist only of regulation thigh-high boots, with<BR>
Starfleet branch and rank insignia clipped to the left and right<BR>
front boot tops, respectively."  Please observe this regulation<BR>
during our next zero-G drill, scheduled for 2345 hours tomorrow,<BR>
and in all subsequent zero-G drills.<BR>
<BR>
Thank you.  It is a pleasure and an honor to serve with you<BR>
aboard the finest ship in Starfleet.<BR>
*************************<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:10:04 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
> The word you are looking for is "irony".  Some people on the TML might<BR>
> like to know that it dosen't usually mean "made out of iron".<BR>
<BR>
Oh yeah?  Then "stony" must not mean "made out of stone."<BR>
If so, then what are those asteroids made out of?<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:35:00 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Overbearing characters (was Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie)<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich <yikes@evansville.net> wrote:<BR>
> ObTrav: Describe the most overbearing characters you have ever inflicted<BR>
on<BR>
> your Traveller characters.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, I have had several.  I guess the worst of the lot would<BR>
have to be the one the PCPs referred to as "the unnamed<BR>
one."  He never did reveal his name, but was so pompous<BR>
and overbearing that the PCs finally assumed that he must<BR>
be part of the Imperial Family.<BR>
<BR>
"The unnamed one" ordered the PCs around on their own<BR>
ship, got about a third of their crew killed off (including one<BR>
of the PCs) and finally stiffed them on the pay and<BR>
disappeared into the wood work.<BR>
<BR>
They tried a number of avenues to track him down (he owed<BR>
them a great deal of cred.); but never did get a good track<BR>
on him.  Eventually, they found another independent trader<BR>
group who had run afoul of "the unnamed one."  They went<BR>
to where they had lost track of him and picked up information<BR>
that he had boarded yet another independent trader.<BR>
Eventually, they gave up (after wasting almost as many creds<BR>
as he owed them).<BR>
<BR>
Who was he?  Some old guy who figured out that he could<BR>
travel the spaceways by bullying and bluffing the small<BR>
independents.  His history included stints as an actor and<BR>
some hobnobbing with actual royalty.  They learned later<BR>
that he was killed by some pirates masquerading as<BR>
independent traders when they found out that no one would<BR>
pay for his return.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:49:44 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
> >Remember, according to credit card company rules, you must have<BR>
> >a signature on that little slip for it to be a valid transaction.<BR>
> >Now, while CC companies do allow retailers to charge without<BR>
> >that slip precisely for internet and phone use, it then becomes<BR>
> >up to the the retailer to prove that the person using the card<BR>
> >is the rightful owner, and the CC company will_automatically_<BR>
> >reverse the charge at the request of the owner  without such<BR>
> >a slip.<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, that's not 100% correct. If the delivery address of the item<BR>
> shipped by mail order (internet or phone) matches the billing address of<BR>
> the cardholder, the bank will usually deny the customer's "chargeback"<BR>
> request.<BR>
<BR>
That's a possibility, especially if you are reputable retailer, (for<BR>
instance,  certain "retailers" are often suspected of sending in fraudulent<BR>
claims against cards themselves, so the CC company might not for them ), but<BR>
it is actually against the credit card companies own rules. I suspect if the<BR>
customer pushed it, they would be required to reverse it.<BR>
<BR>
For instance, I am aware of at least one case where the person who was<BR>
illegally using the credit card lived very near to the address of the person<BR>
owning the card, and was using their address to get round the address check,<BR>
and just checking their mail-box on the way to<BR>
work. The bank did refuse to reverse it until the customer threatened to<BR>
take them to court.<BR>
<BR>
However, as it happened several tmes, the guy was finally caught by the<BR>
customer, the bank, the retailer and the police working together. When the<BR>
retailer got another order on that credit card, they told the bank, the bank<BR>
arranged with the customer to station a policeman nearby (in their living<BR>
room, from memory ). The retailer sent an "empty" package, and the fraudster<BR>
was arrested for interfering with the mail. Once arrested and identified<BR>
they got a warrant and found the other goods. He was a local tradesman who<BR>
had recieved the customer's credit card information legitimately!<BR>
<BR>
In my case, I have had charges on a direct debit from Disney reversed,<BR>
because they repeatedly failed to cancel a direct debit or even respond to<BR>
the cancellation requests. The CC company just requested that I send them<BR>
copies of the letters requesting the cancellation<BR>
and did it.<BR>
<BR>
However, so far that's the _only_ problem I have had with providing my CC<BR>
over the net, without SSL, and without any form of encryption.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, other than one store that refused to sell me things because their CC<BR>
check said I was not me <grin>. Their loss, but I'd have done the same.<BR>
<BR>
 > (I manage an online bookstore in real life.) We also had a case<BR>
> where someone tried to deny the charge. We were able to show that the<BR>
> customer did in fact work at the company to which we delivered the item<BR>
> -- and I still had the original request, from the customer's work e-mail<BR>
> address, complete with company info in the sig, asking about the<BR>
> availability<BR>
> of the book that he eventually ordered. The charge stood.<BR>
<BR>
Shows how it's the retailer that has to prove the sale though, huh ?<BR>
If you didn't have that email, I doubt you'd have stood much chance of<BR>
defending that one.<BR>
<BR>
> (In the one year we've been up and running on the 'net,<BR>
> these are the only two "chargebacks" we had to deal<BR>
> with for items that we shipped. Any order from outside<BR>
> Canada and the US, or any order that for any reason I am less<BR>
> than 100% sure about, I will do an address verification first.<BR>
<BR>
You probably should do it on all of them, but I suppose that may not be<BR>
econonmic, it may be cheaper to accept an occasional loss than spend the<BR>
time,<BR>
<BR>
> Like the time we received an order from Pakistan... except that<BR>
> according to our bank, the credit card it was paid with was<BR>
> issued by a bank in Utah. We didn't ship the order.)<BR>
<BR>
Well, you'd have been a bit sily to ship to that one <grin><BR>
<BR>
It basically shows for 99.9% of the time the address verification is all<BR>
that is needed, and most of the time there's no problem.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:42:42 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
At 12:16 am 1/5/00 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
>At 14:49 -0500 4/1/00, Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
wrote:<BR>
>>It seems that a lot of people's mail programs don't use the<BR>
convention<BR>
>>of prepending greater-than signs (>) to quoted text in replies, but<BR>
>>instead use some sort of horizontal separator. This isn't a big<BR>
deal<BR>
>>for single messages, as there's only one separator to look for, but<BR>
>>when reading TML in digest mode, it's very hard to tell where one<BR>
>>post ends and another begins while skimming, particularly if more<BR>
>>than a full screen's worth of material is quoted.<BR>
><BR>
>ISTR that outlook can't do this easily? Certainly my work a/c<BR>
version <BR>
>won't do it. Anyone know how?<BR>
<BR>
	I know it can be done, but I've chosen not to use Outlook at home.<BR>
If nobody answers, I'll check it out at work and post the<BR>
instructions tomorrow night.<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:45:49 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Hyphen for Emperor!<BR>
<BR>
At 01:38 pm 1/5/00 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
>Dear Folks -<BR>
><BR>
>David G wrote:<BR>
>>Subject: Hyphen for Emperor!<BR>
><BR>
>Been there, done that. Did I mention playing the Big S at Sydcon?<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
	Hyphen for Grandfather!<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1676<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1677</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 5 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1677<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Re Small Things<BR>
RE: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: computer versions of rules<BR>
Letters from the Front...<BR>
Re: Overbearing characters (was Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie)<BR>
Re: Groups<BR>
RE: Vargr fashions (was RE: fashions)<BR>
Re: A letter from xxx xxxxx...<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
Re: computer versions of rules<BR>
RE: Vargr fashions <BR>
The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
It takes a Village (was Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!)<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: fashion<BR>
Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and Tech  Level 2 and printing)<BR>
Oh Sollie Metho (was Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:53:10 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Small Things<BR>
<BR>
At 06:35 pm 1/4/00 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
>>What is the smallest size you would imagine to be convenient for<BR>
people to<BR>
>>use?<BR>
>Also please remember, in pure ascii, you can fit most short novels<BR>
on one<BR>
>or two floppies (1.4mb each). Having a 1 gig removeable media the<BR>
size of a<BR>
>quarter is somewhat overkill for most personal uses... but I can see<BR>
it<BR>
>happening, and soon.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	Please ... my personal online reference library *already* requires<BR>
two CD-Rs ... and that's *just* the things I've had the time & energy<BR>
to snag electronically, and want available when I'm travelling (which<BR>
is 3 weeks out of the month). I would expect a *good* professional<BR>
reference library for almost any career field to be several gigabytes<BR>
at least, even at our TL. And that's not counting personal interests,<BR>
entertainment, etc....<BR>
<BR>
	One of these days the eBook and the Palm Pilot will merge and catch<BR>
up to what I could actually use ...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:01:46 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E.<BR>
> Berry<BR>
<snip><BR>
> Matthew Sheppard assumed he was going out for a good time.<BR>
<BR>
So ?  I always assume I'm going to have a good time as well.<BR>
There's no point in doing otherwise.<BR>
<BR>
> People on this list know my name, and the city I live in.<BR>
> My picture is up on my web site.  They know I drive for<BR>
> Super Shuttle.  They also have been told that I will be<BR>
> at BayCon this spring.<BR>
><BR>
> With that information, you could find me easily.<BR>
<BR>
I hate to break it to you, Doug, as you're obviously already paranoid<BR>
enough, but unless you post from an anonymizer or are doing other things to<BR>
explicitly hide your identity, I could probably find you anyway, even<BR>
without all that other information. It is remarkably easy to find someone<BR>
based on just an email.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:11:13 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Myers<BR>
><BR>
> CC security is important.<BR>
<BR>
True.<BR>
<BR>
> I was the victim of CC fraud last year when the<BR>
> card number I use for online transactions had monthly web site charges<BR>
> appearing on the statement. Apparently, it is pretty easy to set up a<BR>
> for-pay web site, contract with another company to offer credit card<BR>
> support, and sign up a bunch of people's stolen CC numbers.<BR>
<BR>
Yep, and SSL is not going to help you there, is it ?<BR>
Most CC numbers are "stolen" by people who are legitimately viewing them,<BR>
such as shop assistants, real world or electronic.<BR>
<BR>
> It shows up on your statement as $19.99 for "Net access" or "ISP charge".<BR>
><BR>
> The total tab on my card was $600. After 6 months of hassle, I am not out<BR>
> any money, but I wouldn't want to go through it again.<BR>
<BR>
Sounds to me like you didn't check your CC statement often enough if it<BR>
added up to $600 at $19.99 a time.<BR>
<BR>
It shouldn't have been any hassle either, you can get your CC company to<BR>
block charges from a source, if they continue to allow charges after such a<BR>
request, they can be held liable for damages on top of restitution. Though<BR>
I'll admit in some cases bank staff can be pig-headed.<BR>
<BR>
 > Ob Trav: What do people think of the Paul Sanders - Lost Supplements<BR>
Scams<BR>
> book. Anything really original in it?<BR>
<BR>
I don't know,  I haven't received mine yet !<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:10:43 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 08:54:56 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
>The classic Niven Belter often operated out of a small singleship.  No air<BR>
>lock, you lived in your suit.  You had to get the helmet on in a hurry in<BR>
>case of a hull breach.  Long hair got in the way and in the machinery.<BR>
<BR>
>Shuttle astronauts don't 'hurry' into EVA suits.  The women have plenty of<BR>
>time to put up their hair prior to putting on the suit.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the shuttle reference is more apt that you realize, but<BR>
cuts the other way.  One of the problems facing a manned mission<BR>
to Mars is space suits that can be used in "real" conditions.<BR>
Currently space suits have to have totally clean undamaged<BR>
seal, no dust, abbrasions, looose hairs (yes, even with short hair<BR>
you will get these), etc.  For a manned mission to Mars<BR>
a space suit is going to have to be able to realiably seal<BR>
even when not clean.  This goes double for suits in the<BR>
Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Though also you should substitute "long" with "loose".  A woman<BR>
can put up her hair when she starts working for the day.  If<BR>
you are asleep you aren't going to get into a space suit if<BR>
their is a hull breach (unless you sleep in it :-).<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:10:54 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: computer versions of rules<BR>
<BR>
I am on the Trav-CD mailing list, but have seen little traffic since August.<BR>
I will make an enquiry and report back.<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Volker Greimann" <volker@greimann.de><BR>
> BTW: Traveller on CD:<BR>
><BR>
> How far has the procject come as of today? What is finished already, what<BR>
> is still planned?<BR>
> ANY News, ANYONE?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:13:23 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Letters from the Front...<BR>
<BR>
It's been a *long* time since I last read Catch-22, but I do remember the <BR>
part that ties in here.<BR>
<BR>
Yoserian was in the Hospital for some reason, and as an "Officer and a <BR>
Gentleman", got roped into reading and censoring mail home written by the <BR>
Enlisted personnel.  I recall that he found this most tedious and starting <BR>
amusing himself with process.  Things like removing all the adverbs, or <BR>
every third word.  I believe he  actually did censor one down to:<BR>
<BR>
Dear Mom:<BR>
<BR>
Love, Tom.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for<BR>
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 16:16:01 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Overbearing characters (was Re: In Defense of Evil Stevie)<BR>
<BR>
Jason T. Barnabas wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Joseph R. Dietrich <yikes@evansville.net> wrote:<BR>
> > ObTrav: Describe the most overbearing characters you have ever inflicted<BR>
> on<BR>
> > your Traveller characters.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hmm, I have had several.  I guess the worst of the lot would<BR>
> have to be the one the PCPs referred to as "the unnamed<BR>
> one."  He never did reveal his name, but was so pompous<BR>
> and overbearing that the PCs finally assumed that he must<BR>
> be part of the Imperial Family.<BR>
<BR>
BLAST it everyone!!! Would you PLEASE stop posting such vile, evil GM<BR>
misdeeds where Eris can see them. Some of us play in his games, yah<BR>
know! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
That's a good one, Jason!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:20:57 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Groups<BR>
<BR>
>Eris responds:<BR>
><snipped><BR>
>>I've got 8 currently in my PBEM and to be honest that's pushing<BR>
>>it for me.<BR>
><BR>
> I have never been involved in a PBEM game, but I would<BR>
> expect larger groups may be accomidated.  Is this true?<BR>
><BR>
>Peez<BR>
<BR>
    I have 13 in my PbEM, all in the same squad. It helps a LOT if you<BR>
identify the fast posters early and make sure that nothing hangs on the<BR>
answer of someone who may miss a post. With the large group I was lucky<BR>
because I'm running a military campaign and there is 2 PCs who are higher<BR>
ranked than the others (I allotted ranks, 11 x Privates, 1 x Sergeant and 1<BR>
x Lieutenant) these two are fast posters so the flow of the action continues<BR>
without the usual PC conferences on what to do and other general planning<BR>
arguments.<BR>
    Jim.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:25:44 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: Vargr fashions (was RE: fashions)<BR>
<BR>
> I can't imagine sexual modesty being much of an issue for a race<BR>
> geneered from Terran canines, but even if it is, why wear<BR>
> shirts?<BR>
<BR>
Why?  Wolves show at least as much modesty as primates do....<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:32:06 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: A letter from xxx xxxxx...<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 05:15 PM,  "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>I was just reading, in a recent issue of the New Yorker, some letters<BR>
>home from various wars. I thought it might be an interesting exercise to<BR>
>write one from an Imperial soldier. Here it goes:<BR>
<BR>
However, the censors will be busy. <g><BR>
<BR>
> Hi Love,<BR>
<BR>
>    I hope this letter finds you well. I'm here, in the thick of it in<BR>
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, but I can't tell you any more than that, Imperial<BR>
>regulations. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?<BR>
<BR>
>    When they tell you about soldiering, they never tell you how much<BR>
>waiting you're going to do. I knew that each jump xxxxxxxxxxxx before I<BR>
>signed up. I just never realized how quickly xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx until you<BR>
>crawl your way to the front. I guess that's why the ships we travel on<BR>
>have the latest entertainment equipment. They've got every holovid you<BR>
>can imagine!  It's really amazing.  After you've spent xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>
>xxxxxxx, you almost forget that you're heading toward the front.<BR>
<BR>
>    When we landed at the port it was like stepping into another<BR>
>dimension. I was kind of surprised, I figured that it should at least<BR>
>look like a war was going on. There were some nasty burn marks, a few<BR>
>craters, and a little structural damage, but for the most part the<BR>
>buildings at the starport looked pretty much like those at any other.<BR>
>From what I've been told, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx after the<BR>
>xxxxxxx, and they xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx pretty good.<BR>
<BR>
>    I don't envy xxx xxxxxxx though. They have a tough time of it, even<BR>
>in the xxxxx they wear. We're just mopping up, but even then, the jobs<BR>
>dangerous. After all, you never know when you're going to come across a<BR>
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. The Joe commandos creep me out the most though. You<BR>
>never know when your buddy's gonna xxxxxxxxxx, or when the guy behind you<BR>
>is xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Fortunately, nothing like<BR>
>that's happened to us yet, but it has made us xxx xxxxxx xxxxx. Target ID<BR>
>has become a really important issue for us. After all, nobody wants to<BR>
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx taking a shortcut through the woods, but<BR>
>nobody wants to have Zhodani commandos nearby either.<BR>
<BR>
>    The bots are pretty spooky too. We've come across a couple of dead<BR>
>ones, but you never know if they're really dead, or if they're just<BR>
>disabled, or if it's part of their program to act disabled. We came up on<BR>
>one in xxxxxxxx and it put up a pretty good fight.  It blasted xxxxxxx<BR>
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx right off, I didn't know the girl though. After we<BR>
>blasted the thing to bits xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>
>xxxxxxxxxxxx. The smell of burning plastic and flesh was just horrible. I<BR>
>hope that little Deshinami doesn't never has to smell anything like that<BR>
>in her life. I can't imagine how anyone could bear fighting without<BR>
>combat armor.  There are plenty of things out there xxxxxxxxxxxxxx    <BR>
>xxxxxxxxxx, but it does keep smells out.<BR>
<BR>
>    We ran into a Joe in battle dress with a fusion gun. He was hiding in<BR>
>the basement of a warehouse that looked like it had been through hell. I<BR>
>can't express how glad I am that the poor bastard ran out of ammo after<BR>
>three shots. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx down there in that cramped basement.<BR>
>We got the guy, but it was tough going. He was dead on with his second<BR>
>shot and xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.  There was some<BR>
>splash from the third shot that xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx a little ahead of<BR>
>me, but xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx army medics can<BR>
>do some amazing things.<BR>
<BR>
>    I don't have much to say otherwise, except that I miss you so much,<BR>
>and I really can't wait to get back an play with Deshinami and Nushushu.<BR>
>Tell them their daddy loves 'em. I hope this thing ends fast so that I<BR>
>can head back home. I guess when I do head back I'll get to watch a lot<BR>
>of holovids. I wonder how many vid reviewers are ex-military, anyway?<BR>
>Tell your mother that I send my regards.<BR>
<BR>
> Love Always,<BR>
> Shiin<BR>
<BR>
Remember Loose Lips, Slag Ships!<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:33:32 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> My roommate's favorite:  JFK announcing to the world "I am a jelly<BR>
> doughnut!"<BR>
<BR>
Although a well loved popular error, the truth is that Berliner means both a<BR>
tasty jelly-filled and a resident of Berlin. I was crushed when I went to<BR>
Germany and mentioned it in the presence of my German exchange partner who<BR>
was anything but amused by the implication in the story that Germans cannot<BR>
tell the difference between synonyms when the difference is crystal clear in<BR>
the context in which the words are spoken.<BR>
<BR>
Ever since then I've been rather careful when faced with "silly American"<BR>
stories which can be read as "stupid foreigner" stories.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:52:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
>From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
<BR>
>Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
>> I can't imagine sexual modesty being much of an issue for a<BR>
>> race geneered from Terran canines, but even if it is, why <BR>
>>wear shirts?<BR>
>How about races descended from Terran apes? Would they have<BR>
>sexual modesty? I mean besides Kenji.<BR>
<BR>
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! (Thumping sound of<BR>
beating own breast.)  I am revealed to myself to be a rabid<BR>
specist!  I do not deserve to live in Berkeley.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
P.S. Good point about Kenji, too.<BR>
<BR>
P.P.S.  I tried to send a similar post earlier, but I got a<BR>
proxy server error message, and couldn't find this message<BR>
again, so it may show up in different forms twice; sorry.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:52:22 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Clothes of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 05:50 PM,  "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:23:57 +1100<BR>
>>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
<BR>
>>>Assuming this is becuase belters spend time in zero G (which most<BR>
>>>spacer, in fact, would seldom do), long hair isn't really much of<BR>
>>>a problem im zero G.  A number of female astronauts have long hair....<BR>
>><BR>
>>    It may be the Larry Niven "Belter Strip"<BR>
<BR>
Shaved sides with a short hair strip down the center (front to<BR>
back), and that describes the style, IMTU. too.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:53:28 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: computer versions of rules<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 05:52 PM,  Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de> said:<BR>
<BR>
>BTW: Traveller on CD:<BR>
<BR>
>How far has the procject come as of today? What is finished already, what<BR>
> is still planned?<BR>
<BR>
>ANY News, ANYONE?<BR>
<BR>
And what can I do to help?<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:56:09 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Vargr fashions <BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>>and the idea of Vargr in Hawaiian shirts (which will be how I<BR>
>>paint the next Vargr miniature).<BR>
>It's odd.  One of the NPCs I've written up for GF is a Vargr<BR>
>Sylean ranger who wears blacks and greys and refuses to <BR>
>acknowledge Vargr culture, except to teach it to Officer<BR>
cadets.<BR>
>I'd love to see him painted up amongst some of the other Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
Can do.  Now I really have to go to my storage unit and see if I<BR>
have two unpainted 25mm Vargr (probably).  Maybe Kristian will<BR>
let me use a little of his studio space for painting on one of<BR>
our board gaming days.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:52:24 +1000<BR>
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
<BR>
Article by Pytor Ackerman-Devine of the Daily Telefax.<BR>
<BR>
Once again, the pathetic Imperial propaganda machine spews out garbage stating<BR>
that the Solomani Movemnet, and its sheperd, the Solomani Party, are a "bunch of<BR>
space nazis".<BR>
<BR>
This is of cause nothing but a blatent attempt by a bunch of inbred degenerates<BR>
trying to placate its bastardise populus. The Solomani Movement does not<BR>
postulate that Solomani are the supermen of the galaxy. The Movement is about<BR>
allowing true humans to gain their rightfull place in the universe. While<BR>
degenerate Imperials may get this confused with the National Socialism movement<BR>
of Europe in the early-mid 20th Century, there are some important items that<BR>
need to be said:<BR>
<BR>
1. The Solomani Movement never went to war to seize "Living Room". The Solomani<BR>
Zone was freely given to us by the Rotting Imperium, after legitimate concern<BR>
about the mongeralisation of Imperial power from a pure Solomani Imperium. When<BR>
the mongeralisation became unteniable, and the Solomani Movement felt that its<BR>
legitimate asperations where being ignored, we broke away from the Imperium. The<BR>
Rotting Imperium, intent of perpetuating a Vilani dictatorship, LAUNCHED an<BR>
invasion against the Solomani. The Solomani never initated any wars, and held<BR>
our own against large hordes of Vilani drones.<BR>
<BR>
2. The Solomani Movement is a pan species movement, where many races, Solomai<BR>
and Non Solomani, seek a better future for their multi-planet community. We have<BR>
actively allowed many races to be uplifted so that they too, can aspire for life<BR>
among the stars. Even those of a Vilani background, now unburdended by a corrupt<BR>
and evil caste system that condemed generations to serfdom, now have the<BR>
opotunity dream of a better life for them and their kin. The Solomani Party is<BR>
forever vigelent to ensure that no person can deny the basic freedoms that being<BR>
a part of the Solomani Movement gives each sentient. The Movement never proposed<BR>
to liquidate any race, or sub race, or religion, or sexual preference. Unlike<BR>
the mind numming Villani 'consensus or death' mentality, the Movement revels in<BR>
diversity.<BR>
<BR>
3. The Solamani Security does not persicute people for being Non Solomani.<BR>
SolSec only acts agains True Crimes, crimes deamed by the Solomani Movement to<BR>
be destructive to the movement and its members.  The Movement encourages a frank<BR>
and open discorse on all things , including the future of the Movement, but must<BR>
protect the Movement from traitors who seek to weaken the links that bind our<BR>
society together.<BR>
<BR>
Remeber : To the Rotting Imperium, the Purity of the Solomani is a light that<BR>
shows ups all of their flaws and evil intents that they hide in the dark. The<BR>
Mongeral Power would rather quench the light than acknoledge to truth of the<BR>
Solomani. We must stay vigulent, report all attempts to weaken us to the proper<BR>
authorities, and to ensure the Light reaches all parts of the Universe.<BR>
<BR>
Darryl<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:59:37 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: It takes a Village (was Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 05:54 PM,  "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> Whatever ideology, the current policy of the Confederation is<BR>
>> more nationalist (liberate our lands) than anything else.<BR>
<BR>
>The whole "the Solomani are Space Nazis" has always bemused me  somewhat,<BR>
>as canon clearly states (in the MT Imperial Encyclopedia,  IIRC) that the<BR>
>Confederation has less control over its member worlds  than the 3I does,<BR>
>and often can't stop trade wars and worse breaking  out. This leads me to<BR>
>suspect that one part or another (or both) of  this image of the Solomani<BR>
>Confederation is just so much Imperial Cr*p.  About what you'd expect<BR>
>from a bunch a' bad losers like the Emporers.<BR>
<BR>
Exactly!  <g> It could very well be that the Solomani have been as<BR>
badly propagandized against as have the Zhodani.  Remember when the<BR>
turban heads were unmitigated bad guys?  More recent thought is that<BR>
they are anything but, well, the same may be true of the Solies.<BR>
<BR>
You want to know who the black hats really are?  It's the Impie<BR>
imperialists!<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:02:59 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
> <BR>
> >Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> >> I can't imagine sexual modesty being much of an issue for a<BR>
> >> race geneered from Terran canines, but even if it is, why <BR>
> >>wear shirts?<BR>
<BR>
The more important question for me about Vargr is why they don't seem to<BR>
wear pants, especially males.  Their dangly bits would hurt just as much<BR>
getting caught in a blast door as yours.  Yet most of the Vargr art I've<BR>
seen has them in these doublet/singlet things, or brightly colored<BR>
shirts.  And I don't think that Vargr females secrete any less than human<BR>
ones.  Especially not during estrus, if they have it (I thought they did<BR>
but it's been a long time).<BR>
<BR>
> >How about races descended from Terran apes? Would they have<BR>
> >sexual modesty? I mean besides Kenji.<BR>
> <BR>
> Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! (Thumping sound of<BR>
> beating own breast.)  I am revealed to myself to be a rabid<BR>
> specist!  I do not deserve to live in Berkeley.  <BR>
> <BR>
Does anyone?  (San Francisco is bad enough sometimes.)<BR>
<BR>
> P.S. Good point about Kenji, too.<BR>
> <BR>
What point are you trying to make?  Never having seen Kenji in the flesh,<BR>
all comments about hydrotherapy suites to the contrary, is he noted for<BR>
modesty, or for the lack of same?<BR>
<BR>
I wasn't modest until I acquired a 6" surgical scar across my midsection<BR>
that permanently damaged my abdominal muscles.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:04:08 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: fashion<BR>
<BR>
>>You could, conceivably, suffocate if you had enough hair in a helmet like<BR>
>>that.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>NASA suits have form-fitting hoods under the helmets, ISTR. That would seem<BR>
>to be the obvious solution.<BR>
><BR>
>Nick<BR>
>+++<BR>
>Keep up the hair discussion. I'm getting drawn into it.<BR>
<BR>
    My hair is worn long and while I'm not often in Zero-G I have been<BR>
abseiling and didn't have any problems at all. I'm a bush surveyor and I<BR>
spend a fair amount of time up on windy hilltops without any bother either,<BR>
my hair doesn't bug me when I'm wearing my motorbike helmet (although its<BR>
not an enviroment helmet, I know.) The secret, tie it back at your scalp and<BR>
another tie a few inches from the end.<BR>
    (I'm looking back on the post and it looks like an ad for Hygiene<BR>
Products "I can jetski and horseride . . ")<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:04:59 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 06:01 PM,  "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:<BR>
<BR>
>On 4 Jan 00, at 19:07, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> For example, when MegaTraveller came out, local stores wouldn't touch it<BR>
>> with a ten foot pole. I had to put in a special order for the boxed set.<BR>
<BR>
>The first copy I ever saw was in a Toyworld store. I didn't buy it, not <BR>
>being into Traveller then, and it took me years to track down another <BR>
>copy.<BR>
<BR>
My LGS had been good about getting in Traveller material (GDW and<BR>
third party), but MT burned them badly.  The owner cut back then<BR>
completely stopped stocking Trav material.  He still carried a lot<BR>
of Tw2k and a smattering of other GDW stuff, but it got to where I<BR>
never saw Trav related material there. <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:14:33 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
>Subject: RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
>> Like the time we received an order from Pakistan... except<BR>
>>that according to our bank, the credit card it was paid with <BR>
>>was issued by a bank in Utah. We didn't ship the order.)<BR>
><BR>
>Well, you'd have been a bit sily to ship to that one <grin><BR>
<BR>
As I asked Glenn in private email, how then should a legitimate<BR>
traveller order something when he's far away from home?<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:16:37 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and Tech  Level 2 and printing)<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >How about societies that never develop writing.  What TL could be reached<BR>
> >based on an oral tradition?  I would think maybe TL4.<BR>
> <BR>
> I don't think so.. just about every culture that advanced out of the stone<BR>
> age has developed writing.  It might be one of those vital links that<BR>
> allows the culture to step up another notch.<BR>
<BR>
True.  However, how they actually _used_ writing varied widely, until the<BR>
last hundred or two hundred years.  Very little technological know-how was<BR>
transmitted through literacy alone until very recently.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:14:38 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Oh Sollie Metho (was Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 06:08 PM,  Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> said:<BR>
<BR>
>I think it may be more useful to distinguish between the Solomani Party<BR>
>and the Solomani Confederation on one hand, and between ideology and<BR>
>government praxis on the other.  ISTM that the _ideology_ of the Solomani<BR>
>Party, and many of the _Party's_ operations and structure, are akin to<BR>
>Nazis'.<BR>
<BR>
Ideology or methodology?<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure I'd agree that the belief structure of The Party<BR>
matches all that well with Fascism.  Actually, just what does the<BR>
Solomani Party believe other than (1) Solomani are superior and (2)<BR>
Terra should be under their control.  <BR>
<BR>
As for methodolgy, it looks like a totalitarian duck to me.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 5 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1678<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Photo Page<BR>
Re: Hair<BR>
re:  The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
Trademarks (Re: GURPS versus Traveller)<BR>
Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
Re: The Village People<BR>
Re: fashion<BR>
Re: Hair<BR>
Re: fashion<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: Hair<BR>
Re: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
Re: Naked apes<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: Old<BR>
Re: Hair<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:17:09 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Photo Page<BR>
<BR>
>    My hair is worn long<BR>
<SNIP><BR>
<BR>
This reminds me - what state is the TML photo page, and who was hosting it<BR>
again? (Dom?)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
+++<BR>
(I just find it more enjoyable if I can put faces to opinions.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:22:49 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Hair<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 06:15 PM,  Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Short hair requires frequent maintenance.  Unless you shave your head or<BR>
>use one of those flowbee thingies you have to go get it cut.  Most women<BR>
>do not want to cut their own hair.  (Of course most women are not<BR>
>Belters, LOL!)  Once hair gets beyond a few inches length it can<BR>
>seriously get in your way.<BR>
<BR>
In our culture.  In a belter culture, the shaved head or "buzz cut"<BR>
might be the norm for women, men, or both.  You might even see<BR>
styles like the old Mongols (shaved head except for a short topknot).<BR>
<BR>
My guess is that men and women that spend a lot of time in vacc<BR>
suits will tend toward short/no hair styles.<BR>
<BR>
Now about work clothes....I understand jumpsuits aren't a good<BR>
unisex garment.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:27:44 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
<BR>
>From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au<BR>
<BR>
>Article by Pytor Ackerman-Devine of the Daily Telefax.<BR>
<BR>
That was authentic right down to the misspellings and<BR>
ungrammatical sentences.  In fact, it was downright scary.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:28:07 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
> <BR>
> >Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> >> I can't imagine sexual modesty being much of an issue for a<BR>
> >> race geneered from Terran canines, but even if it is, why <BR>
> >>wear shirts?<BR>
> >How about races descended from Terran apes? Would they have<BR>
> >sexual modesty? I mean besides Kenji.<BR>
> <BR>
> Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! (Thumping sound of<BR>
> beating own breast.)<BR>
<BR>
Here, have a banana...<BR>
<BR>
I suspect that sophonts based on Terran apes would wear whatever their<BR>
Solomani uplifters think they should wear, which, hopefully, ties this<BR>
thread back to the clothing and comparative totalitarianism threads.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:30:33 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> the mind numming Villani 'consensus or death' mentality, the Movement<BR>
<BR>
Ah, so many times I've wished that death was a convenient (and legally &<BR>
socially sanctioned) alternative to office consensus!<BR>
<BR>
> authorities, and to ensure the Light reaches all parts of the<BR>
> Universe.<BR>
<BR>
Oh.  So you're saying that the Solomani Party is building a giant<BR>
spotlight in the Aldebaran sector?  Can someone provide the FF&S stats for<BR>
this? <BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:44:11 GMT<BR>
From: Postmark Design Bureau <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Trademarks (Re: GURPS versus Traveller)<BR>
<BR>
- ---------- Begin forwarded message ----------<BR>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:14:02 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
To: postmark.design@btinternet.com<BR>
Subject: Trademarks (Re: GURPS versus Traveller)<BR>
<BR>
Sorry for the direct response, but I can't post to TML right now.<BR>
Feel free to post this there if you like.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I'm going to have to get off the pot and write a Trademark law primer.<BR>
I keep saying the same things over and over to different groups of<BR>
people at work, at play, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Postmark Design Bureau wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Craig Lytton wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > I remember the old Battletech "Recon Lance" miniatures set.  It had a<BR>
> > > small sticker proclaiming "Recon is a trademark of Palladium Games".<BR>
> > > I hope the military field manuals have a disclaimer, have Palladium<BR>
> > > Games' lawyers looked into that one????<BR>
><BR>
> As I understand it, they won't need one. A trademark isn't just the text,<BR>
> it's the appearance of the text.<BR>
<BR>
It can be both.  If it is a word, its a "word mark."  The graphical TM is<BR>
essentially a distinct TM, sorta kinda.<BR>
<BR>
> > Weeeeel... considering how successful Amazon.com has been suing various<BR>
> > businesses around the country for use of the word "Amazon" in their names,<BR>
> > who knows?  Palladium Games might get a settlement out of the DOD.  Hell,<BR>
> > SJG beat the feds, right?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Kenji<BR>
><BR>
> Let's see, I'm a small business turning over a few hundred k per year with<BR>
> the probable right to use Amazon in my company name as I currently do.<BR>
> Then Amazon.com turn up with a billion pounds worth of lawers[1] and promise<BR>
> that even if I did win, then verilly my entire family would be bankrupted<BR>
> until the third generation...<BR>
><BR>
> By contrast, I noticed that George Lucas didn't try to challenge the SDI<BR>
> project when everyone started calling it "Star Wars"<BR>
><BR>
> [1] it's not that I have anything against lawyers, it's just that the<BR>
>     current system means that I would risk losing everything whereas the<BR>
>     other party is only risking petty cash.<BR>
<BR>
Which is why I say: "Get to know me!"  :-)<BR>
<BR>
Cease and Desist letters are how lawyers say "Hello."<BR>
The goal is to intimidate people into acquiescing.<BR>
No one wants to actually discuss the legal merits of<BR>
a suit.  They just want you to agree that they are right.<BR>
Sometimes, perhaps even often, there are very good<BR>
and smart business reasons to strictly police your marks<BR>
and vigourously attack anyone who even comes close<BR>
to infringing them.  Not the least of them is that if<BR>
you actually had to go to court, the judge would<BR>
confuse TM law with Copyright law and screw<BR>
everything up (which is sort of where we're at now,<BR>
IMHO).<BR>
<BR>
An informed response can usually stop the whole deal,<BR>
when the issues are clear. Sometimes they aren't.<BR>
<BR>
I will seriously think about starting a real TM primer.<BR>
I think I can bill my company for the time I work on<BR>
it.  :-)<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------- End forwarded message -----------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 00:12:49 GMT<BR>
From: Postmark Design Bureau <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> <<snips discussion of unreality of televised penguins>>>><BR>
> > <BR>
> > > (Does all this mean that my reality anchor really wasn't all that<BR>
> > > Y2K-proof? Or does it just need new batteries?)<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Funny, I thought reality anchors were GTL 8 technology....<BR>
> <BR>
> C'mon, we've had that level of tech for nearly a week, now....<BR>
<BR>
Earlier, I was listening to a program about drug immune "superbugs".<BR>
<BR>
The Narrator kept referring to the medical advances of the previous<BR>
century, such as antibiotics.<BR>
<BR>
It'll probably take me all year to get used to the idea.<BR>
- -- <BR>
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>
This is an example taglines file for ZapEmail. You should replace this with a<BR>
suitably-formatted file of your own.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 22:35:15 GMT<BR>
From: Postmark Design Bureau <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
> >The word you are looking for is "irony".  Some people on the <BR>
> >TML might like to know that it dosen't usually mean "made out <BR>
> >of iron".<BR>
> <BR>
> I see some mock-heraldrese in the future.  Kenji's coat of arms<BR>
> should contain something like "irony of phallus, a Sayat<BR>
> regardant sourant sable".<BR>
<BR>
This is unfair. My hot chocolate is getting cold and I still have<BR>
501 unread messages.<BR>
<BR>
:-(<BR>
<BR>
At least I still have a working keyboard.<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>
Postmark Design Bureau, Laser Communications Division<BR>
"For when your message must get through"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 22:27:16 GMT<BR>
From: Postmark Design Bureau <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
<BR>
Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well there is that holographic DVD format coming out that right now stores<BR>
> 140 gigabytes and should be in the terabyte range real soon.<BR>
<BR>
This gives a problem with GT First In where the X-boat has a stated<BR>
capacity of 150TB and the 400 dT Khadumir has a lower capacity.<BR>
<BR>
(If it just stated that an X-boat can carry one week's (or one day's)<BR>
data comms between two High Tech, Hi pop worlds, things would be so<BR>
much simpler. For a start you could work out how many X-boats are<BR>
zipping around without aving to guess how many TB of data was being<BR>
generated.<BR>
<BR>
Phil Kitching<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>
Postmark Design Bureau, Laser Communications Division<BR>
"For when your message must get through"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:23:34 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People<BR>
<BR>
> From: Kenji Schwarz <BR>
> Anyone want to set up a Trav game, FTF or PBEM, set in such a Traveller<BR>
> Universe?  <BR>
<BR>
Well, it wouldn't be hard to set up scenarios.<BR>
<BR>
From 76 Patrons:<BR>
12. Diplomat<BR>
Players' Information:<BR>
The players' group is approached by a representative of the Imperial<BR>
Minister of State, who is searching for a small party to act as an escort<BR>
for a visiting Vargr noble....<BR>
<BR>
15. Playboy!<BR>
While seeking employment, the group is contacted by an effete young<BR>
gentleman....<BR>
<BR>
and definitely:<BR>
<BR>
50. Playboy, Noble<BR>
During a bout of drinking and other activies in celebration of the<BR>
completion of the player's last job, the player is approached by a drunken<BR>
nobleman who joins in the celebration and listens intently while the player<BR>
retells past exploits.<BR>
As the party breaks up, the noble takes the player aside and offers<BR>
Cr10,000 if the player will act as his bodyguard throughout the rest of the<BR>
evening, which the patron intends to spend wandering through the slums in<BR>
search of adventure (he hints that there may be a permanent position open,<BR>
if he is pleased with the night's performance).....<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:31:22 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: fashion<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 06:24 PM,  Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>The last time you would want to be in the awkward phase of letting your<BR>
>hair grow out would be when you were on a singleship!  BTW Nair has been<BR>
>around as long as I can remember-- I can remember seeing commercials for<BR>
>it in the 60's as a child.  It is evil stuff, though, or at least it was<BR>
>in the 80's when I used it instead of shaving.  When your hair is growing<BR>
>out you can't do anything with it but let it fly around.<BR>
<BR>
The Buzzer.  Take hair clippers with a suction attachment to catch<BR>
the clippings.  Shape the clipper unit to fit in the palm of the<BR>
hand, perhaps with a strap around the hand.  You use them by simply<BR>
running your hand over your head.  A half dozen passes and 30<BR>
seconds later you have 1/8" hair, and you're done until next<BR>
week...or next month if you're willing to let your hair get a little<BR>
shaggy. If it's good for Seanade <sp> it's good for you. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:34:55 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Hair<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In our culture.  In a belter culture, the shaved head or "buzz cut"<BR>
> might be the norm for women, men, or both.  You might even see<BR>
> styles like the old Mongols (shaved head except for a short topknot).<BR>
<BR>
Manchus, you're thinking, and Han under their goverment, after<BR>
1620-something, IIRC.  And that was only the men, too.  For Mongolian<BR>
hairstyles, well, the most convenient example is Queen Amidala's 'do in<BR>
_The Phantom Menace_, which was an exact copy of the style that noble<BR>
Khalkh women wore their hair in during the 19th and early 20th century.<BR>
What the men wore before that seems to be pretty random, but pretty short.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:38:34 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: fashion<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 06:36 PM,  "Roger Barr" <travelergm@hotmail.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>IMTU, those who wear vacc suits of a higher TL would only need to have<BR>
>long  hair braided to keep from having problems.<BR>
<BR>
Keep in mind I didn't say, IMTU, they *needed* to have short hair.<BR>
I said that was the belter *style* in one system, and styles don't<BR>
need to be logical. <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:40:50 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The more important question for me about Vargr is why they don't seem to<BR>
> wear pants, especially males.  Their dangly bits would hurt just as much<BR>
> getting caught in a blast door as yours.  Yet most of the Vargr art I've<BR>
> seen has them in these doublet/singlet things, or brightly colored<BR>
> shirts.  And I don't think that Vargr females secrete any less than human<BR>
> ones.  Especially not during estrus, if they have it (I thought they did<BR>
> but it's been a long time).<BR>
<BR>
I'd put 'em in all in boxer shorts, myself.  Or maybe really lurid paisley<BR>
leg-warmers.  <BR>
<BR>
> > P.S. Good point about Kenji, too.<BR>
> > <BR>
> What point are you trying to make?<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, I'm curious too!<BR>
<BR>
> Never having seen Kenji in the flesh,<BR>
> all comments about hydrotherapy suites to the contrary, is he noted for<BR>
> modesty, or for the lack of same?<BR>
<BR>
The few members of the list who have met me -- and you know who you are,<BR>
and remember I know where to find you -- can confirm that I'm the ultimate<BR>
in puritantical and reserved modesty.  No, really, I am!  I practically<BR>
wear a veil to provide maximum coverage of naked skin.  I blush wildly<BR>
every time I have to say or type a four-letter word, any four-letter word.<BR>
Right?<BR>
<BR>
(Honest.)<BR>
<BR>
> I wasn't modest until I acquired a 6" surgical scar across my midsection<BR>
> that permanently damaged my abdominal muscles.<BR>
<BR>
Nah.  Chix dig scars, as more than one bozo has informed me.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:40:55 EST<BR>
From: KenRoney@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Hair<BR>
<BR>
Hair maintenance might not be the nagging problem in the future that it can <BR>
be today.  Hair on some parts of the body appears to be genetically hardwired <BR>
to grow to just a certain length before falling out.  I can envision that a <BR>
person at Tech 11 or 12 might be able to just take a pill that would keep <BR>
their hair at a desired length.  Try working in this and similar cosmetic <BR>
ideas for additional futuristic flavor.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 19:41:33 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/2000 19:52, Darryl writes this most excellent retort from the<BR>
Solomani point of view. My response is below:<BR>
<BR>
> Article by Pytor Ackerman-Devine of the Daily Telefax.<BR>
> <BR>
> Once again, the pathetic Imperial propaganda machine spews out garbage stating<BR>
> that the Solomani Movemnet, and its sheperd, the Solomani Party, are a "bunch<BR>
> of<BR>
> space nazis".<BR>
> <BR>
> This is of cause nothing but a blatent attempt by a bunch of inbred<BR>
> degenerates<BR>
> trying to placate its bastardise populus. The Solomani Movement does not<BR>
> postulate that Solomani are the supermen of the galaxy. The Movement is about<BR>
> allowing true humans to gain their rightfull place in the universe. While<BR>
> degenerate Imperials may get this confused with the National Socialism<BR>
> movement<BR>
> of Europe in the early-mid 20th Century, there are some important items that<BR>
> need to be said:<BR>
> <BR>
> 1. The Solomani Movement never went to war to seize "Living Room". The<BR>
> Solomani<BR>
> Zone was freely given to us by the Rotting Imperium, after legitimate concern<BR>
> about the mongeralisation of Imperial power from a pure Solomani Imperium.<BR>
> When<BR>
> the mongeralisation became unteniable, and the Solomani Movement felt that its<BR>
> legitimate asperations where being ignored, we broke away from the Imperium.<BR>
> The<BR>
> Rotting Imperium, intent of perpetuating a Vilani dictatorship, LAUNCHED an<BR>
> invasion against the Solomani. The Solomani never initated any wars, and held<BR>
> our own against large hordes of Vilani drones.<BR>
> <BR>
> 2. The Solomani Movement is a pan species movement, where many races, Solomai<BR>
> and Non Solomani, seek a better future for their multi-planet community. We<BR>
> have<BR>
> actively allowed many races to be uplifted so that they too, can aspire for<BR>
> life<BR>
> among the stars. Even those of a Vilani background, now unburdended by a<BR>
> corrupt<BR>
> and evil caste system that condemed generations to serfdom, now have the<BR>
> opotunity dream of a better life for them and their kin. The Solomani Party is<BR>
> forever vigelent to ensure that no person can deny the basic freedoms that<BR>
> being<BR>
> a part of the Solomani Movement gives each sentient. The Movement never<BR>
> proposed<BR>
> to liquidate any race, or sub race, or religion, or sexual preference. Unlike<BR>
> the mind numming Villani 'consensus or death' mentality, the Movement revels<BR>
> in<BR>
> diversity.<BR>
> <BR>
> 3. The Solamani Security does not persicute people for being Non Solomani.<BR>
> SolSec only acts agains True Crimes, crimes deamed by the Solomani Movement to<BR>
> be destructive to the movement and its members.  The Movement encourages a<BR>
> frank<BR>
> and open discorse on all things , including the future of the Movement, but<BR>
> must<BR>
> protect the Movement from traitors who seek to weaken the links that bind our<BR>
> society together.<BR>
> <BR>
> Remeber : To the Rotting Imperium, the Purity of the Solomani is a light that<BR>
> shows ups all of their flaws and evil intents that they hide in the dark. The<BR>
> Mongeral Power would rather quench the light than acknoledge to truth of the<BR>
> Solomani. We must stay vigulent, report all attempts to weaken us to the<BR>
> proper<BR>
> authorities, and to ensure the Light reaches all parts of the Universe.<BR>
> <BR>
> Darryl<BR>
<BR>
GREAT JOB! Did you ever read Travellers' Digest #19? In it, The Rebel<BR>
Reporter was interviewing Chairman Desmond Trinoch of the Solomani<BR>
Confederation and also had speeches from SolSec's Chief (can't remember his<BR>
name offhand), as well as from Minister of Economics(?) Joshua Dahvin...who<BR>
also presented the "voice of reason" to the Solomani delegates.<BR>
<BR>
Darryl's write up, and the article "In Defense of the Solomani" do bring up<BR>
valid points. One person's terrorist is another person's hero. Archduke<BR>
Norris finally saw the Zhodani as PEOPLE, not The Bad Guys Coreward Of Us. I<BR>
wonder if he may have thought the same about the Solomani.<BR>
<BR>
Next Question: Did the Solomani Confederation also fall because of the TNE<BR>
Virus?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 16:42:11 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Naked apes<BR>
<BR>
Kiri wrote:<BR>
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > >From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
> > >How about races descended from Terran apes? Would they have<BR>
> > >sexual modesty? I mean besides Kenji.<BR>
> > [snip]<BR>
> > P.S. Good point about Kenji, too.<BR>
> ><BR>
> What point are you trying to make?  Never having seen Kenji in the flesh,<BR>
> all comments about hydrotherapy suites to the contrary, is he noted for<BR>
> modesty, or for the lack of same?<BR>
<BR>
I don't know what point Glenn got out of it; I was merely going for <BR>
the cheap shot. :)<BR>
<BR>
- -RB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:43:33 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
>The more important question for me about Vargr is why they <BR>
>don't seem to wear pants, especially males.  Their dangly bits <BR>
>would hurt just as much getting caught in a blast door as <BR>
>yours.  Yet most of the Vargr art I've seen has them in these <BR>
>doublet/singlet things, or brightly colored shirts.  <BR>
<BR>
No, I've seen many pictures of Vargr in pants.  (E.g., the<BR>
covers of the GDW Alien Module on Vargr and DGP's Vilani &<BR>
Vargr.)  Anyway, protective clothing is not really the issue<BR>
(because anyone will cover up in a dangerous environment); I<BR>
want to talk about off-duty clothes.  <BR>
<BR>
Why would Vargr males wear pants on their own time?  We had some<BR>
good reasons recently, like showing status.  I might add<BR>
assimilating in an anthrocentric environment.  The Imperium is<BR>
primarily inhabited by humans, and they mostly expect to see<BR>
each other with covered legs, especially upper legs.  A Vargr<BR>
looks more like everyone else in pants.<BR>
<BR>
>And I don't think that Vargr females secrete any less than<BR>
human<BR>
>ones.  Especially not during estrus, if they have it (I thought<BR>
<BR>
>they did but it's been a long time).<BR>
<BR>
That's a good question.  <BR>
<BR>
>> P.S. Good point about Kenji, too.<BR>
>What point are you trying to make?  Never having seen Kenji in <BR>
>the flesh, all comments about hydrotherapy suites to the <BR>
>contrary, is he noted for modesty, or for the lack of same?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji, inventor of the Sayat pelvic-mounted vibrating plasma<BR>
gun? I'd say he's not someone noted for modesty.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 19:43:49 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/2000 19:28, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Here, have a banana...<BR>
> <BR>
> I suspect that sophonts based on Terran apes would wear whatever their<BR>
> Solomani uplifters think they should wear, which, hopefully, ties this<BR>
> thread back to the clothing and comparative totalitarianism threads.<BR>
> <BR>
I can see it now...a TL 14 Gorilla Battlecruiser a'la PLANET OF THE APES<BR>
cruising the stars. "The only GOOD Vilani...is a DEAD Vilani!"<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:44:12 EST<BR>
From: KenRoney@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Old<BR>
<BR>
I can proudly say that at 42 I qualify to many as old, and as a Traveller <BR>
player since 1979 I truly seem to many to be perverted.  But I'm hanging in <BR>
there!<BR>
<BR>
Ken<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:45:33 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hair<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 01/05/00 at 06:15 PM,  Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >Short hair requires frequent maintenance.  Unless you shave your head or<BR>
> >use one of those flowbee thingies you have to go get it cut.  Most women<BR>
> >do not want to cut their own hair.  (Of course most women are not<BR>
> >Belters, LOL!)  Once hair gets beyond a few inches length it can<BR>
> >seriously get in your way.<BR>
> <BR>
> In our culture.  In a belter culture, the shaved head or "buzz cut"<BR>
> might be the norm for women, men, or both.  <BR>
<BR>
Has there ever been a culture in which women didn't tend to grow their<BR>
hair long?  If there hasn't been, there probably won't be.  I know a lot<BR>
of men prefer long hair.  Some few prefer short, but that's a minority.<BR>
<BR>
The completely shaven head has in many cultures been a sign of slavery,<BR>
degredation, punishment, childhood, and other low status states of being.<BR>
<BR>
> You might even see styles like the old Mongols (shaved head except for a<BR>
short topknot).<BR>
> <BR>
Actually topknots for both sexes could be attractive and convenient for<BR>
shipboard life.  <BR>
<BR>
> My guess is that men and women that spend a lot of time in vacc<BR>
> suits will tend toward short/no hair styles.<BR>
> <BR>
Probably, but that's never going to be the vast majority of the population<BR>
and many travellers don't spend THAT much time in a vacc suit.<BR>
<BR>
> Now about work clothes....I understand jumpsuits aren't a good<BR>
> unisex garment.<BR>
> <BR>
The big problem with jumpsuits is that women cannot pee out of the fly.<BR>
You have to take the whole thing off.  And women have to pee more often<BR>
than men, especially if they have ever been pregnant for any length of<BR>
time.  Men only have to remove the jumpsuit for #2.<BR>
<BR>
Snap crotches do NOT really help.  Especially not if the garment is snug.<BR>
I do not even buy things with snap crotches.  It's hard enough to fasten<BR>
snaps and hooks in places where I can see what I'm doing.  Now for a<BR>
working jumpsuit you COULD have the entire inseam unsnap from mid thigh to<BR>
mid thigh and that might be OK.  If it was loose fitting, like a flight<BR>
suit.  Forget velcro anywhere near pubic hair, can you say OUCH!<BR>
<BR>
This is annoying.  But many women still wear jumpsuits and catsuits when<BR>
they are in fashion.  <BR>
<BR>
The other problem with jumpsuits for females is standardized sizing.  <BR>
Your average female does NOT wear the same size pants or skirt as shirt or<BR>
top.  Most of us either are top heavy or bottom heavy.  I have a nice<BR>
chest but my butt is a dress size or two bigger than my top and this has<BR>
remained constant, whether I was "fat" or "thin" by local standards, since<BR>
I was 13.  I could NEVER buy a jumpsuit off the rack because if it was big<BR>
enough for the booty, it was WAY too big up top.<BR>
<BR>
If you could get jumpsuits in different combos of top and bottom sizing<BR>
they would be more popular.  I mean, I range anything from size 13-20 on<BR>
the top half and anything from size 20-24 on the bottom half, depending on<BR>
manufacturer and cut.  If you can enter your measurements into the<BR>
computer and have a jumpsuit delivered that fits, more women will be<BR>
willing to wear them (with a t-shirt, tank top or tube top underneath for<BR>
bathroom comfort, maybe)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1678<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1679</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 5 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1679<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: fashion<BR>
No Rimward Expansion?<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
modesty<BR>
Re: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
Re: Naked apes<BR>
RE: fashions<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
re: More Letters from the front lines...<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and Tech Level 2 and printing)<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions <BR>
Re: Hair<BR>
Re: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
Re: Family <BR>
Re: Family <BR>
Re: A very happy New Year <BR>
Re: Happy New Year! <BR>
Re: Y2K Bug <BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug <BR>
Re: Y2K Bug <BR>
Re: Hair<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:47:06 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: fashion<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 01/05/00 at 06:24 PM,  Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >The last time you would want to be in the awkward phase of letting your<BR>
> >hair grow out would be when you were on a singleship!  BTW Nair has been<BR>
> >around as long as I can remember-- I can remember seeing commercials for<BR>
> >it in the 60's as a child.  It is evil stuff, though, or at least it was<BR>
> >in the 80's when I used it instead of shaving.  When your hair is growing<BR>
> >out you can't do anything with it but let it fly around.<BR>
> <BR>
> The Buzzer.  Take hair clippers with a suction attachment to catch<BR>
> the clippings.  Shape the clipper unit to fit in the palm of the<BR>
> hand, perhaps with a strap around the hand.  You use them by simply<BR>
> running your hand over your head.  A half dozen passes and 30<BR>
> seconds later you have 1/8" hair, and you're done until next<BR>
> week...or next month if you're willing to let your hair get a little<BR>
> shaggy. If it's good for Seanade <sp> it's good for you. <g><BR>
> <BR>
Sinead.  And maybe for some people.  I haven't cut my hair since 1995 and<BR>
don't plan to, except for trimming the ends.<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 19:47:36 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: No Rimward Expansion?<BR>
<BR>
A General Traveller question, if I May.....<BR>
<BR>
Did Terra ever expand further rimward of Aldebaran, Canopus and Neworld<BR>
sectors? Or did they run into the actual Rim? Or is there "something" there<BR>
that they don't want to run into again?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Sincerely,<BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:47:21 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 06:40 PM,  "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>I've alway thought the dress on board ship (for crew) would be the pocket<BR>
>covered overall. <BR>
<BR>
That was what I assumed, however I've been told, in no uncertain<BR>
terms, that shirt and trousers work a whole lot better for one of<BR>
the sexes.<BR>
<BR>
>Passangers (depending on the size of the ship) would be<BR>
>dress in anything from shorts and t-shirts to formal wear for dinnining<BR>
>at the captains table. But always some kind of cover (don't need to give<BR>
>the space dogs any ideas above there station in life/distractions from<BR>
>there work)<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, dinner clothing is formal wear for passengers and uniforms for<BR>
crew, traditionally.  On cargo ships and free traders things are more<BR>
informal, but simple uniforms and "nice clothes" for the passengers<BR>
is still traditional.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:52:53 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: modesty<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Never having seen Kenji in the flesh,<BR>
> > all comments about hydrotherapy suites to the contrary, is he noted for<BR>
> > modesty, or for the lack of same?<BR>
> <BR>
> The few members of the list who have met me -- and you know who you are,<BR>
> and remember I know where to find you -- can confirm that I'm the ultimate<BR>
> in puritantical and reserved modesty.  No, really, I am!  I practically<BR>
> wear a veil to provide maximum coverage of naked skin.  I blush wildly<BR>
> every time I have to say or type a four-letter word, any four-letter word.<BR>
> Right?<BR>
> <BR>
> (Honest.)<BR>
> <BR>
1.0<BR>
<BR>
> > I wasn't modest until I acquired a 6" surgical scar across my midsection<BR>
> > that permanently damaged my abdominal muscles.<BR>
> <BR>
> Nah.  Chix dig scars, as more than one bozo has informed me.<BR>
> <BR>
But I AM a chick.  And at least two-thirds of the people I've dated<BR>
weren't chix.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:51:53 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
<BR>
>Next Question: Did the Solomani Confederation also fall because of the TNE<BR>
>Virus?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yes, sez TNE canon.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:54:11 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Naked apes<BR>
<BR>
>From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
<BR>
>> > P.S. Good point about Kenji, too.<BR>
>> What point are you trying to make?  Never having seen Kenji <BR>
<BR>
>I don't know what point Glenn got out of it; I was merely going<BR>
<BR>
>for the cheap shot. :)<BR>
<BR>
Me, too.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:54:28 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
Date sent:      	Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:29:15 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From:           	Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
> Thirdly... as a female.... I don't want to be too crude here... but there<BR>
> are valid reasons for at least a loincloth and most cultures do at least<BR>
> wear some kind of skirt/briefs.  To put it bluntly, I don't want to sit on<BR>
> a chair that another woman has been sitting in not wearing any panties.<BR>
> ESPECIALLY not 3-7 days out of every 28 or so, but really not at any time.<BR>
> And most men aren't too comfortable letting their dangly bits just dangle.<BR>
<BR>
Well I can confirm that even the most 'dedicated' naturists I've met <BR>
(and some of them can verge on religious ferver at times) allow the <BR>
dictates of common sense to guide their choice of clothing when it <BR>
comes to things such as cooking and the use of power tools :*><BR>
<BR>
Also it should be remembered that the vast majority of Imperial <BR>
citizens (and non-Imperial for that matter) will never venture into <BR>
space, so I don't see the neccessities of space travel having any <BR>
real influence on fashion. As to the nature of fashion, I wouldn't like <BR>
to predict fashion next year, let alone thousands of years in the <BR>
future. However, I did once write a short filler piece on the return of <BR>
the skirt during M0 (its on my website) and the ragtrade is almost <BR>
purpose built for adventures (designer hires PCs to steal rivals next <BR>
season designs etc).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Andrew etc<BR>
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:54:28 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
Date sent:      	Wed, 05 Jan 2000 20:56:35 +0100<BR>
From:           	Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
<BR>
> > And most men aren't too comfortable letting their dangly bits just<BR>
> > dangle.<BR>
<BR>
> "OPEN THE BLAST DOORS! OPEN THE BLAST DOORS!"<BR>
> - Star Wars<BR>
<BR>
4 points (it would be more, but I wasn't actually drinking the coffee <BR>
when I read this).<BR>
<BR>
Also:<BR>
"Open the pod bay doors Hal"<BR>
"I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that"<BR>
 - 2001<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Andrew etc<BR>
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:52:10 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: re: More Letters from the front lines...<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 06:51 PM,  Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Message, as transmitted, once cleared by ImpNavCommSec, <BR>
>SMFleetSec, CivAuxCommSec, ImpLiaisonOff, and ImpNavInfOff:<BR>
<BR>
>Mother,<BR>
<BR>
>//Censored//<BR>
<BR>
>Love,<BR>
<BR>
>Darcinia<BR>
<BR>
2.0!!! Close to 3. Good one Walter.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:56:15 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
> <BR>
> >The more important question for me about Vargr is why they <BR>
> >don't seem to wear pants, especially males.  Their dangly bits <BR>
> >would hurt just as much getting caught in a blast door as <BR>
> >yours.  Yet most of the Vargr art I've seen has them in these <BR>
> >doublet/singlet things, or brightly colored shirts.  <BR>
> <BR>
> No, I've seen many pictures of Vargr in pants.  (E.g., the<BR>
> covers of the GDW Alien Module on Vargr and DGP's Vilani &<BR>
> Vargr.)  Anyway, protective clothing is not really the issue<BR>
> (because anyone will cover up in a dangerous environment); I<BR>
> want to talk about off-duty clothes.  <BR>
> <BR>
I haven't seen much Traveller stuff since MegaTraveller died-- I'm<BR>
returning after quite a long hiatus.  I haven't GAMED regularly since 1990<BR>
so you've seen much more recent stuff than me.<BR>
<BR>
> Why would Vargr males wear pants on their own time?  We had some<BR>
> good reasons recently, like showing status.  I might add<BR>
> assimilating in an anthrocentric environment.  The Imperium is<BR>
> primarily inhabited by humans, and they mostly expect to see<BR>
> each other with covered legs, especially upper legs.  A Vargr<BR>
> looks more like everyone else in pants.<BR>
> <BR>
Why wouldn't Vargr wear pants on their own time?  Blast doors or no blast<BR>
doors, when you walk upright, things dangle and most people get into<BR>
situations on their own time where they don't want that happening. Riding<BR>
bikes, motorbikes, hiking, going to amusement parks, walking around in<BR>
public where accidents happen, people drop things and run into you and<BR>
other stuff... you want your pants.<BR>
<BR>
> >And I don't think that Vargr females secrete any less than<BR>
> human<BR>
> >ones.  Especially not during estrus, if they have it (I thought<BR>
> <BR>
> >they did but it's been a long time).<BR>
> <BR>
> That's a good question.  <BR>
> <BR>
Anyone have a good answer?<BR>
<BR>
> >What point are you trying to make?  Never having seen Kenji in <BR>
> >the flesh, all comments about hydrotherapy suites to the <BR>
> >contrary, is he noted for modesty, or for the lack of same?<BR>
> <BR>
> Kenji, inventor of the Sayat pelvic-mounted vibrating plasma<BR>
> gun? I'd say he's not someone noted for modesty.<BR>
> <BR>
That was my original suspicion.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:55:14 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and Tech Level 2 and printing)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 06:52 PM,  "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Well, in CT TL9 was listed as 'circa 1990 to 2000'.  See any laser<BR>
>rifles, air/rafts, jumps drives around?  2000 must be a good year.<BR>
<BR>
Hey, we *could* build them...if only we knew how. <g><BR>
<BR>
And if you include those black projects in...<FNORD>...then you'd<BR>
see that...<FNORD>.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:58:21 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions <BR>
<BR>
Steve Daniels asked me to post the following:<BR>
********************************************<BR>
<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> <BR>
Reply-to: bloo@rogerwilco.com <BR>
To: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com> <BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions <BR>
<BR>
Hi Glenn.  Could you post this to TML for me?<BR>
I'm going to resubscribe - again - to see if I can post.<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
See Alan Moore's new comicbook: Top Ten.<BR>
Sergeant Kemlo: Doberman head and upper torso, humanoid robot<BR>
body otherwise, wears Hawaiian shirts.<BR>
<BR>
One idea I have been playing with is the sorts of body<BR>
modifications that humans might do in the traveller universe. <BR>
Specifically, I think some humans might decide to tinker with<BR>
their genes to produce hair over the full body (or they might<BR>
just do it with some sort of folicle generation). While it<BR>
wouldn't work as an attempt to pass for Vargr, it might well<BR>
make Vargr, and possible Aslan, more comfortable with such hairy<BR>
humans.  I could see this happening with a human population that<BR>
is a minority on a furry-sophont planet.<BR>
<BR>
By the same token, some Vargr might decide that hairlessness is<BR>
a sign of sophistication and shave down.  Perhaps for some vargr<BR>
cult.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
> >Subject: RE: Vargr fashions (was RE: fashions)<BR>
> >> From: Glenn Goffin [mailto:gmgoffin@yahoo.com]><BR>
> >> The question that has long bothered me in this regard is,<BR>
why<BR>
> >>do Vargr wear clothes at all?<BR>
> >For many reasons:<BR>
><BR>
> Those were pretty good reasons.  I especially like the<BR>
> scent-embedded clothing (which makes it easier to change<BR>
scents<BR>
> from casual roast pork and pineapple to formal light<BR>
woodsmoke)<BR>
> and the idea of Vargr in Hawaiian shirts (which will be how I<BR>
> paint the next Vargr miniature).<BR>
><BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:58:50 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Hair<BR>
<BR>
>Actually topknots for both sexes could be attractive and convenient for<BR>
>shipboard life.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Mmm. Nice idea. I like that one.<BR>
<BR>
>I was 13.  I could NEVER buy a jumpsuit off the rack because if it was big<BR>
>enough for the booty, it was WAY too big up top.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Who buys off the rack at TL-13? I assumed tailored clothing as standard<BR>
comes in way before tailored vacc suits come in as standard.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 01:04:35 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
<BR>
>Oh.  So you're saying that the Solomani Party is building a giant<BR>
>spotlight in the Aldebaran sector?  Can someone provide the FF&S stats for<BR>
>this?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tempt me not, for you may not like what happens.<BR>
<BR>
NB<BR>
+++<BR>
And *this* one won't make it past the accountants....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:11:53 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family <BR>
<BR>
> > Actually, there are a lot of states where it's not illegal. Oregon is<BR>
> > one of them. <BR>
> <BR>
> Oregon, land of pot-smoking degenerates, has _no laws_ against them?<BR>
> Yegad! This just PROVES that the Mafia, drug dealers, and homosexuals are<BR>
> all in it together, and they're trying to set up a safe base of operations<BR>
> from which to collaborate with the Black Helicopters and form a beachhead<BR>
> for an invasion of our country by the United Nations!<BR>
<BR>
Oh, come on, Kenji.  You *KNOW* the UN is just a front organisation for the <BR>
Boy Scouts...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:05:16 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family <BR>
<BR>
> > Y'see Kiri... we're all Family. Humans.<BR>
> <BR>
> "It's not my planet, monkey-boy!"<BR>
> <BR>
> <oops, there goes the cover.... :-) ><BR>
> <BR>
> Work for Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, do you Leonard?<BR>
> :)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
We're still out our order of Trugeon bombers...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:56:58 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A very happy New Year <BR>
<BR>
> At 03:43 PM 1/3/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I'm gonna write in Doug's name in the first Luna City mayorial race.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Hear that, Doug?  Yer gonna be a civil servant!!<BR>
> <BR>
> Ever read "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"?  hehehehe...<BR>
<BR>
One of my favorites, tovarisch.<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:57:44 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year! <BR>
<BR>
> At 07:19 PM 1/1/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Well, it seems that most of the world survived intact. Just one question<BR>
> >though; what on earth are we going to do with all these penguins?<BR>
> <BR>
> No, the question is what are THEY going to do with US...<BR>
<BR>
Save us from Windoze?<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:59:07 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug <BR>
<BR>
> On 01/03/00 at 11:16 PM,  Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >> >You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
> >> >you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
> >> >Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
>  <BR>
> >> OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
>  <BR>
> >Me me me ME!!!  Can I do it?  PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE?  I've been good!<BR>
> <BR>
> Certainly, Kira!  Do you have the mullet?<BR>
> <BR>
> [Picture Kira bashing Kenji over the head with a large fish]<BR>
<BR>
Kinky...<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I say, let's talk Kenji into changing his name to Homer and handing Kiri a baseball bat.<BR>
<BR>
Hey, Kiri...  Ever wanted to hit a Homer?<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:19:44 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
Date sent:      	Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:56:15 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From:           	Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
> Why wouldn't Vargr wear pants on their own time?  Blast doors or no blast<BR>
> doors, when you walk upright, things dangle and most people get into<BR>
> situations on their own time where they don't want that happening. Riding<BR>
> bikes, motorbikes, hiking, going to amusement parks, walking around in<BR>
> public where accidents happen, people drop things and run into you and<BR>
> other stuff... you want your pants.<BR>
<BR>
Plus remember, that for men, those jangly bits are not entirely <BR>
under your own control. I don't know any male naturists who haven't <BR>
had at least one embarrassing situation.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Andrew etc<BR>
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:03:19 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug <BR>
<BR>
> >> >You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
> >> >you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
> >> >Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
> >> <BR>
> >> OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
> >> <BR>
> > Me me me ME!!!  Can I do it?  PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE?  I've been good!<BR>
> <BR>
> Oh all right, Kiri. But please remember to mop up the hydrotherapy<BR>
> suite after the two of you are done with it. <BR>
<BR>
What, no electroshock???  We're slipping to new lows here, kids...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:23:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug <BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > On 01/03/00 at 11:16 PM,  Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> said:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > >> >You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
> > >> >you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
> > >> >Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
> >  <BR>
> > >> OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
> >  <BR>
> > >Me me me ME!!!  Can I do it?  PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE?  I've been good!<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Certainly, Kira!  Do you have the mullet?<BR>
> > <BR>
> > [Picture Kira bashing Kenji over the head with a large fish]<BR>
> <BR>
> Kinky...<BR>
> <BR>
> Personally, I say, let's talk Kenji into changing his name to Homer and handing Kiri a baseball bat.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hey, Kiri...  Ever wanted to hit a Homer?<BR>
> <BR>
Love to, long as I don't have to dye my hair blue and put it in a beehive.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 20:34:43 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hair<BR>
<BR>
I wonder how NASA is addressing this issue?  As me gradually become a more<BR>
space-faring culture, more women are going to be in the ranks of those who<BR>
work in space, and this is going to become a major issue I think.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 7:45 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Hair<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> The other problem with jumpsuits for females is standardized sizing.<BR>
> Your average female does NOT wear the same size pants or skirt as shirt or<BR>
> top.  Most of us either are top heavy or bottom heavy.  I have a nice<BR>
> chest but my butt is a dress size or two bigger than my top and this has<BR>
> remained constant, whether I was "fat" or "thin" by local standards, since<BR>
> I was 13.  I could NEVER buy a jumpsuit off the rack because if it was big<BR>
> enough for the booty, it was WAY too big up top.<BR>
><BR>
> If you could get jumpsuits in different combos of top and bottom sizing<BR>
> they would be more popular.  I mean, I range anything from size 13-20 on<BR>
> the top half and anything from size 20-24 on the bottom half, depending on<BR>
> manufacturer and cut.  If you can enter your measurements into the<BR>
> computer and have a jumpsuit delivered that fits, more women will be<BR>
> willing to wear them (with a t-shirt, tank top or tube top underneath for<BR>
> bathroom comfort, maybe)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1679<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 5 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1680<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Confusing Quoting<BR>
What is it with this airlock thing!?<BR>
Re: Voice of Reason (Solomani Version)<BR>
re:  No Rimward Expansion?<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
RE: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
Re: Irony<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: BITS! Lovely BITS! Wonderful BITS! <BR>
Re: Vargr fashions <BR>
Re: The Village People<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1666 <BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
Re Shipboard clothing<BR>
RE: fashions<BR>
Re: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and TechLevel 2 and  printing)<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: fashion<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 19:26:46 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: RE: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 07:24 PM,  Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> said:<BR>
<BR>
>I have Outlook 97 on Windows 95. Under Tools>Options I have Email as a <BR>
>choice, not Internet Email, and the Email choice doesn't have the options<BR>
>for replying to a message, the Read tab does. However, the choices in the<BR>
>Read tab for replying to a message only allow me to indent the included<BR>
>text, they do not include adding a character.<BR>
<BR>
Try <BR>
Tools/Options/Send  <BR>
Click on Plain Text for sending format and choose Settings...<BR>
Set your wrap at something reasonable (76 isn't)<BR>
Make sure the box for Indent the original text with > is checked,<BR>
and that there is a > in the box<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:32:00 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: What is it with this airlock thing!?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the answers to my airlock question.<BR>
    I was think that airlocks should be rated in "Man spaces," so you could<BR>
design differently sized airlocks. A ship might have on large airlock which<BR>
could handle the entire crew of a Far Trader and several one or two man<BR>
airlocks scattered around the ship for maintenance. Decontamination<BR>
facitities would be an add on option. If a man space was a standard size you<BR>
could design carg locks as well.<BR>
    This stops all thirty boarders flooding through a mantenance lock on the<BR>
ventral hull surface. If they have to cycle through two at a time the crew<BR>
can try and deal with them.<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:27:35 +1000<BR>
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Voice of Reason (Solomani Version)<BR>
<BR>
>>><BR>
GREAT JOB! Did you ever read Travellers' Digest #19? In it, The Rebel<BR>
Reporter was interviewing Chairman Desmond Trinoch of the Solomani<BR>
Confederation and also had speeches from SolSec's Chief (can't remember his<BR>
name offhand), as well as from Minister of Economics(?) Joshua Dahvin...who<BR>
also presented the "voice of reason" to the Solomani delegates.<BR>
<<<<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I have not. I have the AM: Solomani, but I have researched Soviet<BR>
propaganda and watch the Psicorp/Nightwatch episodes of Babylon 5.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>><BR>
Darryl's write up, and the article "In Defense of the Solomani" do bring up<BR>
valid points. One person's terrorist is another person's hero. Archduke<BR>
Norris finally saw the Zhodani as PEOPLE, not The Bad Guys Coreward Of Us. I<BR>
wonder if he may have thought the same about the Solomani.<BR>
<<<<<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it is much easier to create heros/villans if you controll the press.<BR>
Kirov is an exelent example of this, where he was liquidated for percieved<BR>
disloyalty to Stalin, yet lionised by Stalin after death and used as a rallying<BR>
cry to start the Purges. (Point in fact, Stalin personally lead the murder<BR>
investigation. It makes it so much easier to find the murderer if he is actually<BR>
invesitgating it :-)It also helps to have live villans and dead heros.<BR>
<BR>
>>><BR>
Next Question: Did the Solomani Confederation also fall because of the TNE<BR>
Virus?<BR>
<<<<BR>
<BR>
Unofrtuantely , thanks to stupidity in GDW, the Solomani was Virused. After all,<BR>
it makes pertfect sense for the Solamani to use the exact same transponder as<BR>
the Imperium. Helloooo?!?!?!<BR>
<BR>
Darryl<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:37:12 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  No Rimward Expansion?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
<BR>
>Did Terra ever expand further rimward of Aldebaran, Canopus and<BR>
<BR>
>Neworld sectors? Or did they run into the actual Rim? Or is <BR>
>there "something" there that they don't want to run into again?<BR>
<BR>
Vague, half-garbled whispers from old Scouts and their<BR>
time-beaten logs have implied that the minions of That Which<BR>
Must Not Be Named frolic there in the frozen wastes of deep<BR>
space, and hint that they should not be led back to Terra or the<BR>
space known to and inhabited by sophonts who live ordinary lives<BR>
and die, each in their proper time.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 19:36:30 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 07:34 PM,  Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
>> I can't imagine sexual modesty being much of an issue for a race<BR>
>> geneered from Terran canines, but even if it is, why wear<BR>
>> shirts?<BR>
<BR>
Hey, why do all of you assume that every Vargr is hairy like a wolf,<BR>
they might be short hairs, or even "naked canines" for all we know.<BR>
Well, some races of Vargr might be, anyway. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:28:25 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
Hee hee.  I know, but what the hey?<BR>
<BR>
Adventuring, it'd be rough clothes with slung weapons as appropriate, but if<BR>
you've been invited to the ambassador's party for lending assistance to him<BR>
whilst repelling a K'kree invasion, you'd definately be wearing fancier<BR>
duds.<BR>
<BR>
1.Would private ships have dress uniforms?<BR>
2.Would ex-military be allowed to wear their dress uniforms?  Currently, I<BR>
don't think they can, but in the nobility laden OTU?<BR>
3.If no to both of those, then I'd guess what's currently labelled as<BR>
"acceptable" by that planet's population.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia<BR>
Morgan<BR>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 11:14 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Scouts are easy too!  Flight suit with vest ;)  This is probably what I'll<BR>
> be in (or a variation of such) when I'm not in Combat Armor [assuming I<BR>
get<BR>
> it done].<BR>
><BR>
Yes, one assumes that when you are flying a ship or fighting you will be<BR>
wearing utilitarian clothes, but that's NOT what I meant.<BR>
<BR>
Once most people are out of the military, they DON'T wear military gear<BR>
all the time, even if they do wear military/work-type clothes when they<BR>
are working.   I strongly doubt that adventurers, whatever their prior<BR>
service may be, go out drinking, go shopping, or go on dates wearing<BR>
flight suits.  I was curious as to what people would wear when they were<BR>
not working on the engines or operating heavy machinery.<BR>
<BR>
Let's face it, most of us want to get out of our work clothes ASAP once<BR>
we're off duty unless we're one of two sorts:<BR>
<BR>
1)  The sort that doesn't care what they wear (and most of those people<BR>
aren't comfortable in work clothes unless they also fall into the second<BR>
group)<BR>
<BR>
and/or<BR>
<BR>
2)  Those lucky enough to have jobs where they can dress exactly as they<BR>
please.  I don't have such a job even though I am allowed to wear very<BR>
casual clothes if I want-- because if I really dressed in whatever pleaed<BR>
me every day, there would be some days that my attire would not be<BR>
"appropriate".<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
**<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:41:13 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Irony<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Jason said:<BR>
>Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
>> The word you are looking for is "irony".  Some people on the TML might<BR>
>> like to know that it dosen't usually mean "made out of iron".<BR>
><BR>
>Oh yeah?  Then "stony" must not mean "made out of stone."<BR>
>If so, then what are those asteroids made out of?<BR>
<BR>
Iron?<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
("asters" was my other choice)<BR>
<BR>
BTW, in response to Frank et al, I apologise for the length of my work .sig, but<BR>
Them's The Rules. My "normal" (home) .sig is 5 lines shorter (ie. just the top<BR>
4).<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:42:55 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
>On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
>> No, I've seen many pictures of Vargr in pants.  (E.g., the<BR>
>> covers of the GDW Alien Module on Vargr and DGP's Vilani &<BR>
>> Vargr.)  Anyway, protective clothing is not really the issue<BR>
<BR>
>I haven't seen much Traveller stuff since MegaTraveller died--<BR>
>I'm returning after quite a long hiatus.  I haven't GAMED <BR>
>regularly since 1990 so you've seen much more recent stuff than<BR>
<BR>
>me.<BR>
<BR>
Both of the items to which I referred were published before<BR>
1990; both may even have been out of print by them.  Of course,<BR>
I did just see them again a few weeks ago when I was getting<BR>
stuff out of my storage unit for board gaming at Kristian<BR>
Miller's.<BR>
<BR>
>Why wouldn't Vargr wear pants on their own time?  Blast doors <BR>
>or no blast doors, when you walk upright, things dangle and <BR>
>most people get into situations on their own time where they <BR>
>don't want that happening.  Riding bikes, motorbikes, hiking, <BR>
>going to amusement parks, walking around in public where <BR>
>accidents happen, people drop things and run into you and other<BR>
<BR>
>stuff... you want your pants.<BR>
<BR>
Those are good points.  I wonder whether the shape of Vargr<BR>
thighs and the size of the dangling things obviate some of these<BR>
concerns.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:41:29 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: BITS! Lovely BITS! Wonderful BITS! <BR>
<BR>
> Woo hoo!  The Warehouse finally has the new BITS items available to order.<BR>
> Yippee!<BR>
> <BR>
> um. Sorry.  I'm a little excited (see above)<BR>
> <BR>
> =)<BR>
<BR>
Um, Kiri, when yer done sedating Kenji, I hope ya got some left over for Swordy...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:45:27 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions <BR>
<BR>
>From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> <BR>
<BR>
>See Alan Moore's new comicbook: Top Ten.<BR>
>Sergeant Kemlo: Doberman head and upper torso, humanoid robot<BR>
>body otherwise, wears Hawaiian shirts.<BR>
<BR>
I would also note Moebius' old comic series The Incal Light (I<BR>
think it has a few other titles as well).  One of the<BR>
characters, an underworld leader, appears to be Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:43:45 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People<BR>
<BR>
>Subject: Re: The Village People<BR>
Rupert Boleyn quoth:<BR>
>On 4 Jan 00, at 17:48, Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Discuss.<BR>
><BR>
>You missed out the Army. Clearly a recruiting attempt by the Imperial<BR>
>Army in anticipation of the next great slau..push to liberate the<BR>
>Solomani Sphere.<BR>
><BR>
<Great Homosexual Conspiracy mode><BR>
Ah, yes, the Army. The Service for the Straights. Send all the Straight<BR>
boys off to be killed, thus forcing the gay conspiracy to be able to breed,<BR>
thus perpetuating the homosexuality genetic components. Norris is so kind<BR>
to actually make the army perform some offense, so they die off nicely...<BR>
leaving breeders to the conspiracy (Who, BTW, always wind up being REMFs...)<BR>
</Great Homosexual Conspiracy mode><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:44:36 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1666 <BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > > I'm still a little disturbed by the rapidity with which people<BR>
> > > adopted my scoring system, and by the complete lack of critique<BR>
> > > it got. Kind of explains how MT got published, though.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Hey, we're just playtesting it right now.  Yeah.  That's it.<BR>
> >Playtesting.  I'll post the first week's scores Sunday night after<BR>
> >drill, and we can see how things look.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >(For the old-school keyboard kill counters, I'm still tallying those >as <BR>
> >well.)<BR>
> <BR>
> Well I for one remain a devotee of "Classic Keyboard Kill"....none of this <BR>
> "Keyboard Kill: The New Era" for me......<BR>
<BR>
Oh, I dunno bout that.  KK:TNE has a good task system...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:01:55 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Chris replied to Doug:<BR>
>> My roommate's favorite:  JFK announcing to the world "I am a jelly<BR>
>> doughnut!"<BR>
><BR>
>Although a well loved popular error, the truth is that Berliner means both a<BR>
>tasty jelly-filled and a resident of Berlin.<BR>
<BR>
I thought he *meant* to say "Berliner" but mispronounced it as "Berlinier".<BR>
<BR>
As in, "I am a German sausage".  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
(certainly sounds that way on the recordings I've heard)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 21:11:09 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
You know, when thinking about naturalists, I had often pondered this myself.<BR>
How in the hell do they get around that?  Do they get in trouble or what?<BR>
what are the societal expectations in a naturalist society?<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 8:19 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Date sent:      Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:56:15 -0800 (PST)<BR>
> From:           Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
><BR>
> > Why wouldn't Vargr wear pants on their own time?  Blast doors or no<BR>
blast<BR>
> > doors, when you walk upright, things dangle and most people get into<BR>
> > situations on their own time where they don't want that happening.<BR>
Riding<BR>
> > bikes, motorbikes, hiking, going to amusement parks, walking around in<BR>
> > public where accidents happen, people drop things and run into you and<BR>
> > other stuff... you want your pants.<BR>
><BR>
> Plus remember, that for men, those jangly bits are not entirely<BR>
> under your own control. I don't know any male naturists who haven't<BR>
> had at least one embarrassing situation.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Andrew etc<BR>
> Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
> Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
>  "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
>  always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:53:57 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
<BR>
>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
><BR>
>Can I ask the assembled brilliance on this list how feasible it would be to<BR>
>have a TL 2 world that hasn't developed printing yet?  Would it be within<BR>
>the margins of 'variation' for TL development or would it be a pretty basic<BR>
>requirement for achieving that tech level?<BR>
><BR>
You could easily have any of a several fields anywhere within +2/-2 TL of<BR>
base TL for a given world.  I reccomend looking to the categories in the<BR>
"Technology Chart" (In CT, it's in The Traveller Book; MT: in the Referee's<BR>
Companion. It is a 2 page layout), and generating a 2d3-4 throw for each<BR>
category. The Categories are: Personal Military, Heavy Military,<BR>
Comp/Robotics, Communications, Environment, Medical,  Land Transport, Water<BR>
Transport, Air Transport, Space Transport, and Energy Production. Or assign<BR>
differences by feel.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:08:46 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Shipboard clothing<BR>
<BR>
>Of<BR>
>course, GDW's art would  have  reflected  contemporary  modes  of<BR>
>modesty, but perhaps the 'reality' is that all IN crews (etc) are<BR>
>nude!<BR>
<BR>
I would doubt the military would go the nude route. Here's why:<BR>
<BR>
Existing flight suits are covered in pockets, and can quickly and easily be<BR>
removed if need be. Pockets are very useful.<BR>
<BR>
The "Vacc Suit Liner" type suits are far too practical for combat ship<BR>
wear... IMTU, The IN uses VSL's (AKA Ultra Light Duty Vacc Suits) as the<BR>
N-Space Ops uniform. Toss a flight suit over them, and ou have the VSL<BR>
protected from casual abrasion.  Since they are good enough to pprevent<BR>
decompression problems other than those related to head exposure, and they<BR>
can take a helmet (IMTU, IN helmets have two rings, one for VSL and one for<BR>
the VS. It also serves as a backup in case of abrasion or nicks in the<BR>
outer suit (Hence BOTH sealing to the helmet).<BR>
<BR>
Ship's are likely to want pubic hair kept out of the filters. Hair is<BR>
constantly falling out, yes, but the short and curlies are likely to be an<BR>
added problem; hence IN Haircuts, IMTU, tend to be SHORT (Typically <4cm),<BR>
required to be vaccumed daily. Depilatories and shaving can both be not<BR>
only painful, but cause excessive itching.<BR>
<BR>
Moderate lightweight clothing is a good middle ground, so that you don't<BR>
tend to cross too many people's religious or moral threasholds.<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, a human without a wet suit, dry suit, or vacc suit is going to become<BR>
hypothermic in Newt, Dolphin, or similar species' quarters... the humidity<BR>
and temp will probably get them quite fast.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 20:13:36 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 08:11 PM,  "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Also it should be remembered that the vast majority of Imperial  citizens<BR>
>(and non-Imperial for that matter) will never venture into  space, so I<BR>
>don't see the neccessities of space travel having any  real influence on<BR>
>fashion. <BR>
<BR>
Well, I can't speak for the others, but I wasn't writing about<BR>
Fashion for the vast majority of anything.  <g> What I was doing was<BR>
suggesting styles for a couple of small parts of society.  Frankly,<BR>
when you're talking about many thousands of worlds, anything<BR>
somewhere best describes Fashion. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 20:44:03 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and TechLevel 2 and  printing)<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> >How about societies that never develop writing.  What TL could be reached<BR>
> >based on an oral tradition?  I would think maybe TL4.<BR>
> <BR>
> I don't think so.. just about every culture that advanced out of the stone<BR>
> age has developed writing.  It might be one of those vital links that<BR>
> allows the culture to step up another notch.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm.  Maybe I'll try a game of Civ II, and see how far I can get<BR>
without developing Writing.  (I will, however, develop Alphabet.  I<BR>
won't know what to _do_ with it, but I think I need Alphabet to get<BR>
Ceremonial Burial.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 20:48:12 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>Subject: RE:<BR>
> fashions<BR>
> <BR>
> >I think something like briefies would be essential and any<BR>
> >woman with enough up top to jiggle would want a sports bra.<BR>
> <BR>
> If Captain Kirk were not constrained by Starfleet's harassment<BR>
> policy:<BR>
> <BR>
> *************************<BR>
> Memorandum<BR>
> To:        All Hands<BR>
> From:      The Captain<BR>
> Re:        Appropriate Attire<BR>
> Stardate:  135.1107<BR>
> <BR>
> It has come to my attention that some of the crew have been<BR>
> violating ship ops handbook section 35.3, which I quote:  "In<BR>
> non-alert zero-G conditions, uniform for female human crew<BR>
> members shall consist only of regulation thigh-high boots, with<BR>
> Starfleet branch and rank insignia clipped to the left and right<BR>
> front boot tops, respectively."  Please observe this regulation<BR>
> during our next zero-G drill, scheduled for 2345 hours tomorrow,<BR>
> and in all subsequent zero-G drills.<BR>
> <BR>
> Thank you.  It is a pleasure and an honor to serve with you<BR>
> aboard the finest ship in Starfleet.<BR>
<BR>
1.5 (long, hearty laugh, no other aggravating factors).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 22:40:49 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
At 08:54 AM 1/5/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Eris writes:<BR>
> >OTOH, if might have something to do with the skintight's cowl that<BR>
> >pulls up over the top of the wearer's head when they wear their vacc<BR>
> >suits.  Indies and Liners tend to have short hair, but don't insist<BR>
> >on the skinned look.<BR>
><BR>
>The classic Niven Belter often operated out of a small singleship.  No air <BR>
>lock, you lived in your suit.  You had to get the helmet on in a hurry in <BR>
>case of a hull breach.  Long hair got in the way and in the machinery.<BR>
><BR>
>Shuttle astronauts don't 'hurry' into EVA suits.  The women have plenty of <BR>
>time to put up their hair prior to putting on the suit.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
        Hi, Mark!<BR>
        In my TNEC millieu, most Belter Clansmen, High-Side Stevadorres and<BR>
Shuttle pilots view vaccum the same way that I have been told SCUBA divers<BR>
view shallow-water ops:  if your gear has been maintained, what is the big<BR>
deal?  As a result, personal fashion amongst the "Lifer-Spacers" tends to be<BR>
around what won't interfere with the gear working right...  <BR>
        The other issue is *time*...  I have always based my POV on space<BR>
with my RealWorld(tm) experiences in shipboard life...  lots of little<BR>
things to be done, not enough hours in a day...  any personal style that<BR>
slows you down (washing long hair in the fresher, esthtethic-only<BR>
contact-lenses) will be something reserved for the Dirt-siders...<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	"Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
			       ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Cyberpunk:  	"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"<BR>
	Traveller:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"<BR>
	AD&D:		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 22:40:54 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: fashion<BR>
<BR>
At 12:29 PM 1/5/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>[snip of Kiri's detailed & on target description of hair handling.]<BR>
><BR>
>Yup.  If I recall correctly, Niven Belters used a creme (pre-dating Nair?) <BR>
>to keep their heads smooth.<BR>
>Perhaps they cropped the queue really short when docked and let it grow out <BR>
>while in the singleship.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm suddenly reminded of the opening sequence in Jane Fonda's finest film, <BR>
>where she starts off in a rather bulkly EVA suit that has a darkened <BR>
>fishbowl helmet.  The dark film of the helmet is rolled back to show her <BR>
>face framed by lot's of loose red hair in the fishbowl helmet.  Not <BR>
>practical, but an interesting image.<BR>
><BR>
        Hi, Mark...  which film?  I don't recall this from anywhere...<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1680<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1681</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 5 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1681<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
[none]<BR>
Re Literacy<BR>
Re: Tech levels<BR>
RE: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1666<BR>
Letters from the front : Brought to you by General Products!  (long)<BR>
Re: fashion <BR>
Re Ship's Clothiers<BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
Re: More letters from the front lines...<BR>
Re: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and TechLevel 2 and printing)<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
Re: More letters from the front lines...<BR>
Re: Old...<BR>
Re: A letter from xxx xxxxx...<BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
Re: your mail<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug <BR>
Available TRAVELLER games in the Greensboro, NC area<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:29:43 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
>> Weren't the pogroms under the Czars?<BR>
><BR>
>Yes -- but the Tsars and the Soviets found each other "incompossible", as<BR>
>Ambrose Bierce defined it :)<BR>
<BR>
Well, technically, but since both Avrich and Dymytryshyn have applied the<BR>
term to both  Czarist and Soviet purges, I felt safe applying it. I should<BR>
look it up in my russian dictionary, but I can't find that right now,<BR>
either.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:43:51 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Literacy<BR>
<BR>
>>How about societies that never develop writing.  What TL could be reached<BR>
>>based on an oral tradition?  I would think maybe TL4.<BR>
><BR>
>I don't think so.. just about every culture that advanced out of the stone<BR>
>age has developed writing.  It might be one of those vital links that<BR>
>allows the culture to step up another notch.<BR>
<BR>
I would disagree here. Not that literacy doesn't help, it sure does.<BR>
HOWEVER, the vast majority of the post roman societies were, by and large,<BR>
illiterate, despite having a written language. The celts made bronze before<BR>
any signs of written language, and may have had iron before writing. Most<BR>
of the technicians of the middle ages (Read smiths, bakers, leatherworkers,<BR>
etc) would have been at best semi-literate, and likely illiterate, but<BR>
possibly capable of numismatics (working with numbers) on paper.<BR>
<BR>
The Celts spread as far as china in the east, and Manx in the west... they<BR>
had complex trade, definitely had some mathematically based forms of art,<BR>
complex culture, regular plaids, and no signs of writing, until the romans<BR>
split them up. The romans made note of their oral histories being kept by<BR>
the bards.<BR>
<BR>
What most technology needs is the ability to symbolize, and to calculate.<BR>
Neither actually requires Written Language, per se. Have you ever bought a<BR>
model which had instructions in any laguage  except one you read? Could you<BR>
assemble it anyway?<BR>
<BR>
Quipu is an example on non-written numismatic recording. Collections of<BR>
carefully knotted strings. Containing careful accounting records.<BR>
<BR>
I'd agree with TL 4 as a good point, maybe TL 5 or even 6-7, assuming you<BR>
don't have extensive automation, as purely numerical computing is not tied<BR>
to written expression as so many other uses are. I'd expect analogue<BR>
computing, rather than binary digit-oriented methods. However, the higher<BR>
the orally transmitted TL, the higher orders of specialization required.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:55:34 -0800<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Tech levels<BR>
<BR>
>Well, in CT TL9 was listed as 'circa 1990 to 2000'.  See any laser<BR>
>rifles, air/rafts, jumps drives around?  2000 must be a good year.<BR>
<BR>
TNE revised us to TL8, which is about right, including prototype<BR>
laser weapons like the YAL-1 (admittedly slightly big for a rifle.)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:03:18 EST<BR>
From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/5/00 9:44:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< 2.Would ex-military be allowed to wear their dress uniforms?  Currently, I<BR>
 don't think they can, but in the nobility laden OTU? >><BR>
<BR>
Former/honorable discharge US servicemen can wear their dress uniform, for <BR>
just about everything for 30 days or less after discharge [the trip home], <BR>
and then for legally defined special events [think American Legion parades]. <BR>
I am sure the 3I will have the same sort of policy. Perhaps their discharge <BR>
will give a time limit for everyday wear on the way home, based on the home <BR>
of record. <BR>
<BR>
Question: Does the 3I provide transportion home after discharge? That would <BR>
account for the free passages, as the PCs who have them managed to convert <BR>
their specific travel voucher for home into an open ticket, somehow.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:09:59 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1666<BR>
<BR>
"Keven R. Pittsinger" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Well I for one remain a devotee of "Classic Keyboard Kill"....none of this<BR>
> > "Keyboard Kill: The New Era" for me......<BR>
> <BR>
> Oh, I dunno bout that.  KK:TNE has a good task system...<BR>
<BR>
And it doesn't use half-dice.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:59:51 +1000<BR>
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Letters from the front : Brought to you by General Products!  (long)<BR>
<BR>
From : Herzog Elbana, Manager : Internal Audit (Operations/SM)<BR>
To      : Eric Gzolniq : Group Manager : Internal Audit (SM)<BR>
Re      : Notifications of Forced Leave of Absence.<BR>
<BR>
I regret to inform you that due to the outbreak of hostilities between the<BR>
Outworld Coalition and the Imperium, I have been drafted into the Imperial Navy<BR>
for the period to the end of hostilities and / or the Emperor's pleasure.<BR>
<BR>
Please inform the relevant departments of my change in status.<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
(signed) Herzog Elbana.<BR>
<BR>
<<attachment 1: Personal brief>><BR>
<BR>
I am going to self censor this Ero, as you would not believe the decrypt stuff<BR>
the Imps use (LSP of cause, god those guys shit me!). This should get pass, but<BR>
worst case scenario, I will use the backchannels (if they still work, the whole<BR>
thing is a mess here).<BR>
<BR>
Once again Ero, General Products have screwed the pooch big time, and in more<BR>
ways than one. That  bloody arms smuggling scam I was chasing down has turned<BR>
into a full blown invasion stockpile by the Vagr! It looks like Suspect #2 was<BR>
stockpiling the goods on location this side of the border, believing that they<BR>
where to be transhipped across by a third party. Suspect #2 got a shock of his<BR>
life when the doggies dropped on the starport, as did I, as I was about to break<BR>
into his wearhouse. The firefight was short and brutal, with the Starport<BR>
Security and civilians cut down like flies. I attempted to blow the store, but<BR>
was only partially successful (The power cells didn't cook, another feature that<BR>
seems to be fixed).<BR>
<BR>
BTW, Suspect #2 managed to take out a shuttle with a GX PGMP (that targeting<BR>
glitch looks solved btw), and was promptly fried by return fire of the<BR>
disembarked troops. Pay the death benefit  to his family, Ero, he was a stupid<BR>
thief, but pointed the gun the right way when he had to. I'll argue with Group<BR>
if I have to.<BR>
<BR>
I managed to escape the starport , and headed towards the local office. I was<BR>
intercepted by the Marine detachment from the Imperial Embassy (dressed in sneak<BR>
gear and armed with lasers and blast gear tends to make you stand out in a gun<BR>
free planet). I managed to get them to accept my ID (the reserve commission<BR>
helped), and downloaded the visual I captured to the Marines TacNet. The<BR>
Sergeant, one switched on guy, realised that the starport was lost and decided<BR>
to set up a defence grid near the embassy. We retreated back , under<BR>
increasingly heavy fire, to the complex. Unfortunately a block way from the<BR>
embassy , we were ambushed by a corsair assault squad, and I came up close and<BR>
personal with one of our GX guns.<BR>
<BR>
I awoke 6 hours later during the evac. I lost my arm to the bloody dogs, but the<BR>
Marines sealed me up and pumped me with Happy Juice. I was pretty lucky, as a<BR>
corporal copped a full blast, killing him instantly. Apparently the Navy was<BR>
actually on the way here to reinforce the border when the balloon went up. The<BR>
Vagr's managed to withdraw in reasonable order when the Navy entered the system,<BR>
but at least the big boys managed to account for a cruiser and some destroyers<BR>
without cost.<BR>
<BR>
Later, on the navy ship I cant name ,in a nice infirmary bed, I had a nice visit<BR>
from the Navy Intel guy. Apparently the Imps where at a loss to work out why the<BR>
Dogs entered here and why they pulled out. Apparently the sergeant who I met on<BR>
ground mentioned me to Intel during debrief, and wanted me to fill in the gaps.<BR>
<BR>
The long and short is that GP is about as popular as plague. The stock taken was<BR>
enough to arm at least a regiment, and power cells for 4 regiments.  However,<BR>
the Intel guy pulled my service files (and a rather distressing dossier of some<BR>
of my corporate work), and immediately re-activated me (as a brevet LT Cmndr!<BR>
Unformed and dropped rank Harrah!).<BR>
<BR>
Direct quote : "You created this mess, you help fix it"<BR>
<BR>
And with a strait face, I gave him the tracer frequencies and codes of all the<BR>
weapons shipped. I live for those moments.<BR>
<BR>
So at the moment, a task force I can not name is in transit somewhere to get the<BR>
rest of the gear. And here is me praying that the screamer tags dont have the<BR>
same quality standards of out Kinnur class ships.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, Suspect #1. There is a treason charge heading his way. Get him out of harm<BR>
now, but dont liquidate. I want to see this guy shot like a bloody duetran!<BR>
<BR>
Herz.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 20:15:33 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: fashion <BR>
<BR>
> >I'm suddenly reminded of the opening sequence in Jane Fonda's finest film, <BR>
> >where she starts off in a rather bulkly EVA suit that has a darkened <BR>
> >fishbowl helmet.  The dark film of the helmet is rolled back to show her <BR>
> >face framed by lot's of loose red hair in the fishbowl helmet.  Not <BR>
> >practical, but an interesting image.<BR>
> ><BR>
>         Hi, Mark...  which film?  I don't recall this from anywhere...<BR>
<BR>
'Barberella', of course.<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:28:51 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Ship's Clothiers<BR>
<BR>
>1.Would private ships have dress uniforms?<BR>
<BR>
Many private ships these days do. It's is dependant upon what type of ship,<BR>
though. The Mess Dress of certain lines is as impressive as military mess<BR>
dress. Many yachts will have dress uniforms and duty uniforms, but no real<BR>
dungaree equivalent outside of engineering.<BR>
<BR>
>2.Would ex-military be allowed to wear their dress uniforms?  Currently, I<BR>
>don't think they can, but in the nobility laden OTU?<BR>
<BR>
Actually, Retirees MAY wear their uniforms, last I checked, provided that<BR>
they are still of suitable size/shape/etc, and the wearer is appropriately<BR>
shaven, coiffured, and bathed. AFAIK, they are required to remove the unit<BR>
patches and flashes, however.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, I use a distinction of  rank device type, and do not modify the<BR>
uniform nor service distinctions.<BR>
OFFICERS<BR>
Active Duty: The Starburst has a solid disc in the center.<BR>
For Retirees: The Starburst has a hollow center ring, with a diamond<BR>
centered in it.<BR>
For Resignees in Good Standing: The Starburst has a Ring in the center.<BR>
Resignees not in good standing, and persons discharged for disciplinary<BR>
actions: may not wear the uniform.<BR>
<BR>
ENLISTED:<BR>
useing the pattern from TD15:<BR>
Active Duty: No tabs on rank device. Discs are solid.<BR>
Ret: The device has a "Retired" tab above it. discs are hollow.<BR>
Hon Disch.: the device has a "Discharged" Tab above it. Discs are hollow.<BR>
Gen Disch: Device replaced by "Discharged" tab. (IE, no rank worn.)<BR>
Dishon Disch: Not allowed to wear.<BR>
<BR>
For those wearing stripes, rather than the dots:<BR>
Active Duty, Honorable Service: Gold Stripes<BR>
Active duty, General service: stripes in appropriate color by servie &/or<BR>
specialty.<BR>
Retired or Hon. Disch.: Rank stripes in appropriate color, but done as<BR>
outlines. Add appropriate tab above stripes ("Retired" or "Discharged")<BR>
Gen: No rank stripes, but "Discharged" tab worn.<BR>
Dishon: May not wear.<BR>
<BR>
FIELD SCOUTS<BR>
Active Service: Term Hashes in appropriate division color for year served;<BR>
most recent furthest from cuffs (Worn on Trouser legs and Shirt Sleeves).<BR>
Inactive Service: Term hashes in outline.<BR>
IMTU, Souts wear a shortened hash for the "Current Term". (Said hash is<BR>
2/3rds width.) If entire term served aboard one ship, ship's name written<BR>
aboard hash. Almost, but not quite, always unique to inactive detached duty.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:27:46 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I thought he *meant* to say "Berliner" but mispronounced it as<BR>
>"Berlinier".<BR>
><BR>
> As in, "I am a German sausage".  ;-)<BR>
><BR>
> (certainly sounds that way on the recordings I've heard)<BR>
<BR>
Well, that's not the way it usually circulates. Certainly an interesting<BR>
mutation. :)<BR>
<BR>
I have the relevant segment here, just listened to it, it sounds like he<BR>
said: "bear-linn-air".<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 20:29:59 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: More letters from the front lines...<BR>
<BR>
The following is a transcript of a message intercepted while<BR>
monitoring broadband transmissions in the Ley Sector, as part<BR>
of the Solomani Confederacy's continued monitoring of Imperial<BR>
frontiers for political purposes. The message was transmitted<BR>
from a Vargr far trader, to be relayed via the X-Boat network<BR>
to a destination in the Antares Sector.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"Woof woof arf ruff growwwf. Growl grr ruff woof. Woof woof<BR>
bark bark bark. Howwwwwwwl. Barkbark ruff. Arf woof growf.<BR>
Whine, whimper, whine, arf. Woof."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(The translator trained in Vargr languages normally at this<BR>
monitoring station is on a leave of absence for the purpose of<BR>
re-education.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:45:02 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and TechLevel 2 and printing)<BR>
<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Hmmm.  Maybe I'll try a game of Civ II, and see how far I can get<BR>
> without developing Writing.  (I will, however, develop Alphabet.  I<BR>
> won't know what to _do_ with it, but I think I need Alphabet to get<BR>
> Ceremonial Burial.)<BR>
<BR>
No, you don't need it for Ceremonial Burial, but you do need Alphabet for<BR>
Code of Laws, if I remember correctly. Both of them together are required<BR>
for Monarchy.<BR>
<BR>
While I'm quite fond of Civ II, I wouldn't use it as a barometer for real<BR>
world civilizations. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 20:48:39 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
>> -- and I still had the original request, from the customer's work e-mail<BR>
>> address, complete with company info in the sig, asking about the<BR>
>> availability<BR>
>> of the book that he eventually ordered. The charge stood.<BR>
><BR>
>Shows how it's the retailer that has to prove the sale though, huh ?<BR>
>If you didn't have that email, I doubt you'd have stood much chance of<BR>
>defending that one.<BR>
<BR>
It helped that the delivery was to a work address, and that the person<BR>
involved did work at that company. The one legitimate overseas order we<BR>
had, the customer also sent me e-mail; turning his e-mail address into<BR>
a web address (remove the @ and everything preceding it, replace it<BR>
with www) gave me a corporate page whose address matched the shipping<BR>
address -- and the customer's name (and e-mail address) were in among<BR>
the list of contact names at the company. (Just to be completely paranoid,<BR>
I checked the message headers and did a trace on the DNS -- it was indeed<BR>
registered to that same company.)<BR>
<BR>
Six months later, no sign of a chargeback on that order. :-D<BR>
<BR>
>Well, you'd have been a bit sily to ship to that one <grin><BR>
><BR>
>It basically shows for 99.9% of the time the address verification is all<BR>
>that is needed, and most of the time there's no problem.<BR>
<BR>
Before moving to my current job in the fall of 1998, I was at<BR>
another bookstore for over 4 years (one without a web presence)<BR>
and eventually handled most of the mail orders (incoming via the<BR>
1-800 line). We never once had a chargeback in all that time from<BR>
a mail order. <BR>
<BR>
- -- g<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:55:03 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Re CCG's and Elementary Schools<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/4/00 2:47:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
rboleyn@paradise.net.nz writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  When magic came along one store ended up getting <BR>
 out of rpgs because they couldn't get them from the distributos, who <BR>
 had decided that CCGs made them more money for less bother. >><BR>
<BR>
BINGO!!! That's what did the damage. The distributors blew an entire year's <BR>
budget on CCGs. This really screwed the RPG manufacterers who saw the <BR>
distributors stop buying from them. SJG even went so far as to flirt with <BR>
locking the distributors out and selling directly to retailers and the <BR>
public. It didn't work though...I also think this directly led to a lot of <BR>
game companies going out of business, and then (serves them right...) a lot <BR>
of the distributors merging...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:55:53 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: More letters from the front lines...<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 09:55 PM,  Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>"Woof woof arf ruff growwwf. Growl grr ruff woof. Woof woof<BR>
>bark bark bark. Howwwwwwwl. Barkbark ruff. Arf woof growf.<BR>
>Whine, whimper, whine, arf. Woof."<BR>
<BR>
Howling with laughter! 2 points for sure. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:15:33 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Old...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
To: traveller mailing aa list <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 5:15 AM<BR>
Subject: re: Old<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm 41 and proud to be an old perv!<BR>
> <BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Hear, hear! Fellow old fogey/perv!<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 20:53:35 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A letter from xxx xxxxx...<BR>
<BR>
>>I was just reading, in a recent issue of the New Yorker, some letters<BR>
>>home from various wars. I thought it might be an interesting exercise to<BR>
>>write one from an Imperial soldier. Here it goes:<BR>
><BR>
>However, the censors will be busy. <g><BR>
><BR>
>> Hi Love,<BR>
><BR>
>>    I hope this letter finds you well. I'm here, in the thick of it in<BR>
>>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, but I can't tell you any more than that, Imperial<BR>
>>regulations. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?<BR>
<BR>
I am reminded of The Self-Made Critic's review of the X-Files movie<BR>
last summer. Take a look, at<BR>
	http://www.brunching.com/selfmade/selfmade-xfiles.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:10:17 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
>Chris replied to Doug:<BR>
>>> My roommate's favorite:  JFK announcing to the world "I am a jelly<BR>
>>> doughnut!"<BR>
>><BR>
>>Although a well loved popular error, the truth is that Berliner means both a<BR>
>>tasty jelly-filled and a resident of Berlin.<BR>
><BR>
>I thought he *meant* to say "Berliner" but mispronounced it as "Berlinier".<BR>
><BR>
>As in, "I am a German sausage".  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the error was using the word "ein". The proper phrase would<BR>
have been "Ich bin Berliner". When using a nationality or other place<BR>
name converted into a personal identifier, the article is dropped. So<BR>
for example, "I am a Canadian" in German would be "Ich bin Kanadier."<BR>
<BR>
By saying "Ich bin *ein* Berliner", he change the meaning of the sentence<BR>
to "I am a jelly doughnut". Similarly, "Ich bin ein Frankfurter" would<BR>
translate as "I am a sausage", not "I am from Frankfurt".<BR>
<BR>
(One entire side of my family is German, and my mother, a native speaker<BR>
of the language, used to teach it in high school. I can't say that I am<BR>
fluent, but I'm awful darn close to it...)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:15:35 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: your mail<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >> Weren't the pogroms under the Czars?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Yes -- but the Tsars and the Soviets found each other "incompossible", as<BR>
> >Ambrose Bierce defined it :)<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, technically, but since both Avrich and Dymytryshyn have applied the<BR>
> term to both  Czarist and Soviet purges, I felt safe applying it. I should<BR>
> look it up in my russian dictionary, but I can't find that right now,<BR>
> either.<BR>
<BR>
I'm willing to buy that, since my Soviet historiography is old and patchy;<BR>
it does seem to me that there's a qualitative difference between how the<BR>
Tsarist pogroms started and happened, and how internal purges of the<BR>
Soviet apparatus worked, that's worth distinguishing.  <BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:17:31 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Well I can confirm that even the most 'dedicated' naturists I've met<BR>
> (and some of them can verge on religious ferver at times) allow the<BR>
> dictates of common sense to guide their choice of clothing when it<BR>
> comes to things such as cooking and the use of power tools :*><BR>
<BR>
...and some don't! I worked with one for years, very vocal. She had a number<BR>
of burns on her upper thighs where she dropped jewelry she was working on in<BR>
her lap.<BR>
<BR>
> Also it should be remembered that the vast majority of Imperial<BR>
> citizens (and non-Imperial for that matter) will never venture into<BR>
> space, so I don't see the neccessities of space travel having any<BR>
> real influence on fashion.<BR>
<BR>
Then I take it you don't look at fashion much? Engineer boots, bomber<BR>
jackets, aviator-style sunglasses, bell-bottom trousers and motorcycle<BR>
jackets are just a few items of clothing I can think of which were<BR>
influenced, directly or indirectly, by clothing styles which were closely<BR>
tied in with a specific mode of transportation. I can think of plenty of<BR>
photos which I've sifted through personally, and more in books that have<BR>
little boys dressed up in obnoxiously cute sailor-style outfits.<BR>
<BR>
Further, influences on fashion can come from all over. Ever since about the<BR>
60s or so, there has existed a segment of the youth population of various<BR>
countries which has worn surplus military clothing, even if, and sometimes<BR>
directly because they are opposed to war or the military industrial complex.<BR>
In urban areas on the East Coast, camo patterns were quite popular recently,<BR>
even when applied to things which they're usually not applied to, like<BR>
dresses and belly-tops, or when they appear in colors that they don't<BR>
usually appear in. I saw plenty of wild and lurid colors in camo patterns in<BR>
the last few years.<BR>
<BR>
Then there's always the romanticized imagery of a bygone era. Cowboy-style<BR>
clothing is quite popular among many, as a fashion statement, not for<BR>
practical reasons. Modern goths frequently wear neo-Victorian clothing. I<BR>
could be here for a day and a night talking about this stuff.<BR>
<BR>
>As to the nature of fashion, I wouldn't like to predict fashion next year,<BR>
>let alone thousands of years in the future. However, I did once write a<BR>
>short filler piece on the return of the skirt during M0 (its on my<BR>
>website) and the ragtrade is almost purpose built for adventures<BR>
>(designer hires PCs to steal rivals next season designs etc).<BR>
<BR>
Well, we are working in a setting that *requires* that we speculate on<BR>
fashion in the Imperium! :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:20:10 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug <BR>
<BR>
> > Personally, I say, let's talk Kenji into changing his name to Homer and handing Kiri a baseball bat.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Hey, Kiri...  Ever wanted to hit a Homer?<BR>
> > <BR>
> Love to, long as I don't have to dye my hair blue and put it in a beehive.<BR>
<BR>
Wrong cartoon.  This is the TML.<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:33:00 -0500<BR>
From: "J. Mark Brooks" <jmbrooks@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Available TRAVELLER games in the Greensboro, NC area<BR>
<BR>
I'm looking for somebody with a campaign in the Greensboro NC area, or who<BR>
would be interested in participating in a campaign.<BR>
<BR>
Please contact me at jmbrooks@bigfoot.com.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:41:43 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 6:01 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1648<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 03:18 05.01.00 , you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > LKW (which does not stand for "landkraftwagen")<BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >G'arn, it doessssss...<BR>
><BR>
> No, Loren is right, in fact LKW stands for LASTkraftwagen, not<BR>
> Landkraftwagen ;-)<BR>
><BR>
> As in Load, not as in land ....<BR>
><BR>
> BTW: I genuinely LOVE americans trying to use German words in their works.<BR>
> To native Speakers, its very humorous indeed, as mostly tiny errors mess<BR>
> up the whole meaning.<BR>
> As in "Heute die Welt, morgens das Sonnensystem" (Today the world, in the<BR>
> morning the solar System) ;-)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Heheheheh... I was close, even if I was only joking :^)<BR>
<BR>
PS:  Add Aussies to your list, thought I don't often do anything of the kind<BR>
:^)<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1681<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1682</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 6 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1682<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: your mail<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
Re: Hair<BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
Letters from the Front<BR>
Re Pogroms<BR>
Re: CT MT TNE T4 GT T5 <BR>
RE: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
Re: CT MT TNE T4 GT T5 <BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: Hair<BR>
Re: CT MT TNE T4 GT T5 <BR>
Re: Family<BR>
FTF Games<BR>
Re: CT MT TNE T4 GT T5<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order (with Traveller stuff!)<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
Re: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and TechLevel 2 and  printing)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1665<BR>
Re: CT MT TNE T4 GT T5 <BR>
Re: Quotations<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:38:41 -0600<BR>
From: tim@premier.net<BR>
Subject: Re: your mail<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > >> Weren't the pogroms under the Czars?<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >Yes -- but the Tsars and the Soviets found each other "incompossible", as<BR>
> > >Ambrose Bierce defined it :)<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Well, technically, but since both Avrich and Dymytryshyn have applied the<BR>
> > term to both  Czarist and Soviet purges, I felt safe applying it. I should<BR>
> > look it up in my russian dictionary, but I can't find that right now,<BR>
> > either.<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm willing to buy that, since my Soviet historiography is old and patchy;<BR>
> it does seem to me that there's a qualitative difference between how the<BR>
> Tsarist pogroms started and happened, and how internal purges of the<BR>
> Soviet apparatus worked, that's worth distinguishing.  <BR>
> <BR>
I am not sure either but the late 19th century and on into WW II <BR>
pogroms were started by the Tsarist intelligence/police agency <BR>
when they invented/foraged the Articles of Zion (sp).  This myth <BR>
then moved to Germany especially after the defeat of the White <BR>
Army was defeat and the more nationalist fled to Germany.  <BR>
<BR>
Though these nationalist especially western Russian/Poland were <BR>
concerned before the Revolution that the Jews where taking land <BR>
and could out vote them in the Duma. <BR>
<BR>
So there is anti jew history in Tsarist Russia though it came <BR>
relatively late.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tim Reynolds<BR>
tim@premier.net <BR>
225-334-5063<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable <BR>
sexual disease.  It made you unsuitable for <BR>
a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.<BR>
<BR>
Terry Pratchett <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:33:47 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >ones.  Especially not during estrus, if they have it (I thought<BR>
> >they did but it's been a long time).<BR>
> <BR>
> That's a good question.  <BR>
<BR>
I seem to recall they did, at least in DGP's _Vilani & Vargr_; I think<BR>
that carried over into G:T's Zho/Vargr book, too.<BR>
<BR>
> Kenji, inventor of the Sayat pelvic-mounted vibrating plasma<BR>
> gun? I'd say he's not someone noted for modesty.<BR>
<BR>
Hey, hey!  That's SLANDER, buddy!  It doesn't vibrate!  Not if you're<BR>
maintaining it right.  Sure, it tends to set your clothes on fire and burn<BR>
your hands when you aim it, and the older models made burglar alarms<BR>
nearby go off and interefered with pacemakers, but it doesn't _vibrate_.<BR>
<BR>
My only lack of modesty involving the PMPP was getting the boxer who lived<BR>
upstairs from me to simulate the recoil that would be involved.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:35:24 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Oh.  So you're saying that the Solomani Party is building a giant<BR>
> >spotlight in the Aldebaran sector?  Can someone provide the FF&S stats for<BR>
> >this?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Tempt me not, for you may not like what happens.<BR>
<BR>
Come on, Nick, everyone likes when gearishness happens!  This is the TML!<BR>
(And if it's a _special_ sort of design, well, you never know when Famille<BR>
Spofulam recruiters will come knocking on your door!)<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:42:18 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Hair<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Has there ever been a culture in which women didn't tend to grow their<BR>
> hair long?  If there hasn't been, there probably won't be.  I know a lot<BR>
<BR>
Well, ya know, if we go that route of imagination, why play/write/think<BR>
about futuristic science fiction at all? :)<BR>
<BR>
> The completely shaven head has in many cultures been a sign of slavery,<BR>
> degredation, punishment, childhood, and other low status states of being.<BR>
<BR>
I can't think of any off the top of my head, except our own recent Western<BR>
ones.  ISTR the Sumerians, at least, shaved their heads as a sign of<BR>
status & purity.  Particular hairstyles (involving actual hair), I can<BR>
think of more examples of them being markers of low/unfree status --<BR>
namely, the "pigtail" that the Manchus made their subjects wear.<BR>
<BR>
> Actually topknots for both sexes could be attractive and convenient for<BR>
> shipboard life.  <BR>
<BR>
Unless you're a Chinese nationalist with a long memory? :)<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:39:23 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> By saying "Ich bin *ein* Berliner", he change the meaning of the<BR>
> sentence to "I am a jelly doughnut". Similarly, "Ich bin ein<BR>
> Frankfurter" would translate as "I am a sausage", not "I am from<BR>
> Frankfurt".<BR>
<BR>
From what I was told when I was in Germany, it depends on where you're from.<BR>
Folks from Southern Germany might well leave in the "ein", folks from<BR>
Northern Germany will probably not. Even then, it may vary from place to<BR>
place.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:53:03 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Letters from the Front<BR>
<BR>
Found in Mr. Dalinaag's office following his murder.<BR>
<BR>
>From: Johannes Tuugen, Captain, ICSS Naildriver<BR>
>To: Mr. Dalinaag, CEO/CFO, Dalinaag LIC<BR>
>CC: Mr Mason-Ferari, Commercial Combat Operations, Dalinaag LIC<BR>
>Subject: Unavailability of Vessel<BR>
>Security Level: Secret<BR>
>Encoded Public Key: DCCO5a<BR>
>Encoded Private Key: ICSSNCJT4<BR>
>Source Encrytion: DLICSymbRep3<BR>
>--Begin decrypted message--<BR>
>Dear Sir:<BR>
><BR>
>Having been recently activated to Imperial Service, per your LIC charter,<BR>
>please note we will be drawing further ships operations expenses and crew<BR>
>salries from the Imperial Navy, Spinward Marches Fleet Auxilliaries<BR>
>Offices. We<BR>
>will be unavailable for further commercial/combat operations until such<BR>
>time as<BR>
>we are released from Imperial Service.<BR>
><BR>
>Will advise soonest as to commercial liability remaining on completed<BR>
>contract<BR>
>#54-1106. Consider contract #76-1106 to be in non-payable exclusionary status<BR>
>due to primary element reactivation, per clause 7.5.5.1, Non-Breech<BR>
>Termination<BR>
>due to unavailability of assigned components due to Imperial Military<BR>
>Arbitration. Have already notified Hortalez et Cie, for release of escrow<BR>
>account back to client.<BR>
><BR>
>Please notify all next-of-kin as per ship's last roster, with following<BR>
>exceptions:<BR>
>	Shapiro, Juriel, promoted to 4th officer (gunnery) by striking.<BR>
>	Campbell, Scott, AWOL, post activation by IN. (Notice sent via IN<BR>
>		NavPersSM. CC'd to HeC for revocation of Repatriation bond.)<BR>
><BR>
>Will draw replacement for turret #4 from IN, as we have not been able to<BR>
>secure<BR>
>replacements on Corporate PO.<BR>
><BR>
>Sincerely,<BR>
><BR>
>	/s/ J. Tuugen<BR>
>	Commanding, Independant Combattant Space Ship Naildriver<BR>
>	Registry PM-13776-Wypoc/SM (Patrol Cutter, Mercenary) to Dalinaag LIC<BR>
>--End Decrytped message--<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 20:00:37 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Pogroms<BR>
<BR>
>> Well, technically, but since both Avrich and Dymytryshyn have applied the<BR>
>> term to both  Czarist and Soviet purges, I felt safe applying it. I should<BR>
>> look it up in my russian dictionary, but I can't find that right now,<BR>
>> either.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm willing to buy that, since my Soviet historiography is old and patchy;<BR>
>it does seem to me that there's a qualitative difference between how the<BR>
>Tsarist pogroms started and happened, and how internal purges of the<BR>
>Soviet apparatus worked, that's worth distinguishing.<BR>
><BR>
>Kenji<BR>
><BR>
My understanding of the term "Pogrom" is a politically expedient program of<BR>
"dissapearances" of political enemies on a large scale. However, I've never<BR>
looked it up.<BR>
<BR>
as soon as I find my Oxford English-Russian, I'll look it up.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: IMTU, such dissapearance programs occur at most levels of the<BR>
Solomani Confed. Some by SolSec, some by local government, some by party<BR>
apparatchiks.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:57:59 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: CT MT TNE T4 GT T5 <BR>
<BR>
> There is a poll at the Traveller site asking which system you prefer. It was <BR>
> reset Dec 12 and only allows one vote per person. <BR>
> <BR>
> http://members.aol.com/Traveller/T000-00.html<BR>
> <BR>
> (results as of 1/1/00: CT 67, MT 37, TNE 55, T4 6, GT 33. T5 not yet <BR>
> available as an option).<BR>
> <BR>
> There is a similar poll asking which milieu you prefer at<BR>
> <BR>
> http://members.aol.com/Traveller/T010.html<BR>
> <BR>
> (results as of 1/1/00: The Golden Age: 33, Solomani Sphere: 21, The Far Far <BR>
> Future: 20, total responses 190).<BR>
<BR>
AOL just told me that page doesn't exist.<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:08:20 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
><BR>
>I strongly doubt that adventurers, whatever their prior<BR>
>service may be, go out drinking, go shopping, or go on dates<BR>
>wearing flight suits.<BR>
<BR>
Well, adventurers may not, but real people do.<BR>
<BR>
Especially when you've put down somewhere for the night because of bad<BR>
weather and haven't brought a toothbrush let alone a change of clothes.<BR>
<BR>
Not that I'd complain, flight-gear is easy to wear, easy to get out of, easy<BR>
to wash, has lots of pockets, and also gets lots of reaction from members of<BR>
the opposite sex, especially if your patches are part of an aerobatic<BR>
team.<grin><BR>
<BR>
> I was curious as to what people would<BR>
>wear when theywere not working on the engines or operating<BR>
>heavy machinery.<BR>
<BR>
Well, when on excercise with the airforce we usually wore overalls for both<BR>
on duty and off, usually had a shower in between, but there's no point in<BR>
getting your own clothes dirty in a tented camp, and except for the vistior<BR>
days when we had to wear uniform, the camp commander didn't usuaally mind us<BR>
going to the mess tent in overalls. If we were going off-camp we'd either be<BR>
in civvies or uniform of the day.<BR>
<BR>
So, I'd say that on ship they would't change between on shift and off, but<BR>
when leaving the ship they'd dress up, _unless_ the company or captain had<BR>
some sort of off-duty dress code, or explicit rules about not wearing<BR>
specific items of work kit.<BR>
<BR>
See how the people dress in "Alien" & "Aliens", the mechanic was in overalls<BR>
off duty, the others wore various mixed dress but didn't tend to change<BR>
between on & off duty, other than the Marines didn't bother with full kit<BR>
when off duty.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:09:34 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: CT MT TNE T4 GT T5 <BR>
<BR>
The correct URL for the T5 poll is<BR>
<BR>
http://members.aol.com/Traveller/T010-00.html<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
> > There is a similar poll asking which milieu you prefer at<BR>
> > <BR>
> > http://members.aol.com/Traveller/T010.html<BR>
> > <BR>
> AOL just told me that page doesn't exist.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 21:10:48 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
Actually JFK said "Ich bin ein Berliner." In German in this context you<BR>
don't use the article "ein." He should have said "Ich bin Berliner." Since<BR>
Berliner is both a person from Berlin as well as a pastry, his inclusion of<BR>
the article made it sound like he meant the pastry instead of the person.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au><BR>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 7:01 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
><BR>
> Chris replied to Doug:<BR>
> >> My roommate's favorite:  JFK announcing to the world "I am a jelly<BR>
> >> doughnut!"<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Although a well loved popular error, the truth is that Berliner means<BR>
both a<BR>
> >tasty jelly-filled and a resident of Berlin.<BR>
><BR>
> I thought he *meant* to say "Berliner" but mispronounced it as<BR>
"Berlinier".<BR>
><BR>
> As in, "I am a German sausage".  ;-)<BR>
><BR>
> (certainly sounds that way on the recordings I've heard)<BR>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
> of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
> position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:23:23 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
> >> Like the time we received an order from Pakistan... except<BR>
> >>that according to our bank, the credit card it was paid with<BR>
> >>was issued by a bank in Utah. We didn't ship the order.)<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Well, you'd have been a bit sily to ship to that one <grin><BR>
><BR>
> As I asked Glenn in private email, how then should a legitimate<BR>
> traveller order something when he's far away from home?<BR>
<BR>
Good point, but as usual systems are designed to deal with the normal 98% of<BR>
occassions, if you want to do something unusual you need to get special<BR>
arrangements.<BR>
<BR>
I'd suggest they set it up with their bank before travelling, though it<BR>
would be unusual for someone to order something by email or phone and have<BR>
it delivered to where they are travelling to rather than to their home.<BR>
<BR>
Remember, it's the _retailer_ who carries the can if the charge is reversed,<BR>
so he has to be satisfied you are who you say you are. If you can do that<BR>
some other way, then fine.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:24:50 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Hair<BR>
<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Has there ever been a culture in which women didn't tend to grow<BR>
> their hair long?  If there hasn't been, there probably won't be.  I know<BR>
> a lot of men prefer long hair.  Some few prefer short, but that's a<BR>
> minority.<BR>
<BR>
In Africa, short hair is not uncommon for women in a number of different<BR>
cultures. Among the Masai, the example that popped into my head first, women<BR>
actually shave their heads bald. Keep in mind that different textures of<BR>
hair will lay differently. Among blacks, long hair doesn't really "lay" at<BR>
all unless it is forced to. Two methods which are used are matting the hair<BR>
into dreds, applying some substance to the hair which will keep it down.<BR>
<BR>
It's important to keep hair texture in mind when discussing hairstyles.<BR>
<BR>
> The completely shaven head has in many cultures been a sign of<BR>
> slavery, degredation, punishment, childhood, and other low status<BR>
> states of being.<BR>
<BR>
Egyptian nobility, male and female, in some eras shaved their heads bald. In<BR>
fact, lots of ancient Egyptians did. On the other hand, head-dresses and<BR>
wigs were common as well. In India, males from some areas shave their heads<BR>
completely upon reaching puberty.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 22:27:28 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: CT MT TNE T4 GT T5 <BR>
<BR>
> The correct URL for the T5 poll is<BR>
> <BR>
> http://members.aol.com/Traveller/T010-00.html<BR>
<BR>
There's no place to vote on that page, and the 'New Poll' link takes me back to the Classic Trav Reprints page.<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:39:27 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 1/2/00 9:10 PM, kellys@efn.org wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I've also frequently heard Family used in the context of those descended of<BR>
> Oberon, the blood of Amber.  Both definitions, IMO, intersect in the<BR>
> aptly-named person of Bleys. ;)  (One of the persistent off-color jokes in<BR>
> my playgroup is that Bleys' sexual orientation is "Yes.")<BR>
<BR>
Oh man, thank you so much. I never realized it, but you are totally right.<BR>
I'll keep that in mind for when Arbon talks me into restarting the Amber<BR>
campaign we had going. I'm dying laughing here. 8D<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:43:40 -0800<BR>
From: Brian Jenkins <bjenk@sprintmail.com><BR>
Subject: FTF Games<BR>
<BR>
I am searching for a Traveller campaign in San Diego California or in<BR>
surrounding areas. Or anyone who would like to play in one.  I may be<BR>
contacted at bjenk@sprintmail.com or on ICQ #1202483<BR>
Brian Jenkins<BR>
Bjenk@sprinmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 23:42:43 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: CT MT TNE T4 GT T5<BR>
<BR>
On 01/05/00 at 11:26 PM,  "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>The correct URL for the T5 poll is<BR>
<BR>
>http://members.aol.com/Traveller/T010-00.html<BR>
<BR>
That still won't do him any good if he's using Netscape.  There is<BR>
something wrong with the page when viewed with NS.  The only column<BR>
on this page lists the various milieux and the New Poll link takes<BR>
you to the Classic Reprints page, not the poll.<BR>
<BR>
To get to the multiple milieux poll you can go in the back door at<BR>
pollit.com via http://vote.pollit.com/webpoll?ID=149637<BR>
<BR>
Have fun,<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 21:47:19 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order (with Traveller stuff!)<BR>
<BR>
It was previously written:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> As I asked Glenn in private email, how then should a legitimate<BR>
> traveller order something when he's far away from home?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I have never had a problem here. I have ordered many things (books,<BR>
hardware, software) while out of town on business and had them delivered to<BR>
me c/o the hotel where I was staying. Maybe the *hotel* part is a good<BR>
indicator of legitimacy.<BR>
<BR>
People I have talked to in the UK have told me that they have been<BR>
questioned about purchases made more than XX miles apart on the same day.<BR>
Apparently this pattern is an indicator of fraud.<BR>
<BR>
(Here comes the Traveller part.)<BR>
<BR>
Now suppose that you are on an advanced TL world. What sorts of patterns are<BR>
noticed in your actions? Someone somewhere can probably track virtually<BR>
everything you do. (Much like being in Singapore today.) Are certain<BR>
combinations of purchases in a given time period by the same individual<BR>
flagged as suspicious? Do advanced equivalents of credit cards carry<BR>
embedded within them a profile of the owners habits, so that marked<BR>
deviations are noted as potential fraud? It will almost certainly be much<BR>
more difficult to carry out the types of fraud which we can easily conceive<BR>
of today. If characters from the backward Spinward Marches try to move to<BR>
move to the more civilized sectors, they may be totally unaware of the level<BR>
of scrutiny which they are under.<BR>
<BR>
 People think nothing of classifying some skills by TL (computer-3, at TL12;<BR>
field artillery-2, at TL 14). Maybe other skills (streetwise, forgery, etc)<BR>
deserve the same level of consideration.<BR>
<BR>
</rambling><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:52:32 EST<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
Or the time at GDW (circa 1990) where the credit cardholder in South Carolina <BR>
denied the charge, which turned out to have been called in by someone in jail <BR>
in Pennsylvania. And the jail said that they couldn't do anything about it... <BR>
prosecuting was too much trouble.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 22:03:33 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Horror Continues! "Imperial Rhapsody"<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 1/3/00 1:27 AM, semo@pil.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Whatever ruleset you're using...<BR>
Saved to disk, damn that's funny Chris. And a hearty Amen as well.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 23:09:17 -0600<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and TechLevel 2 and  printing)<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
> <BR>
> > Hmmm.  Maybe I'll try a game of Civ II, and see how far I can get<BR>
> > without developing Writing.  (I will, however, develop Alphabet.  I<BR>
> > won't know what to _do_ with it, but I think I need Alphabet to get<BR>
> > Ceremonial Burial.)<BR>
> <BR>
> No, you don't need it for Ceremonial Burial, but you do need Alphabet for<BR>
> Code of Laws, if I remember correctly. Both of them together are required<BR>
> for Monarchy.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I was able to get as far as Astronomy, Chivalry, Navigation,<BR>
and Engineering, but was stuck on Monarchy (Republic requires Writing<BR>
somewhere in its tree).  Philosophy (usually my first long-term goal) is<BR>
forbidden, since it requires Literacy (which, by definition, requires<BR>
Writing).  Of course, I was unable to build two of the most important<BR>
Wonders of the World (Great Library [duh!] and Leonardo's Workshop). <BR>
However, nobody else had built either of these two WotW before I ran out<BR>
of non-Writing options.<BR>
<BR>
Just as I was developing Chivalry (thus running out of further options),<BR>
I ended up conquering an enemy city, and thus gained Writing as war<BR>
booty in the year AD 260 (I was playing on Chieftain level, so that I<BR>
could survive long enough to run out of development options).<BR>
<BR>
> While I'm quite fond of Civ II, I wouldn't use it as a barometer for real<BR>
> world civilizations. :)<BR>
<BR>
Nor I, but still, it was an amusing exercise....<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  Somehow, I doubt that games in the time periods covered in<BR>
Traveller have any more reality-checking than those we play now.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 01:08:11 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1665<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-01-04 17:14:26 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:31:25 -0000<BR>
 From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
 Subject: Copyright for TNE pictures<BR>
 <BR>
 I'm creating design and deckplans for the ship pictured on page 218 of the<BR>
 TNE rulebook (with the artist's signature Allen Nunis), and I'd like to get<BR>
 permission to post the picture to the web along with the stats and deckplan,<BR>
 but I don't know who to get permission from.<BR>
 <BR>
 Can anybody help me out here?<BR>
 <BR>
 Nick >><BR>
<BR>
Allen Nunis. When GDW went under, the art copyrights reverted to the original <BR>
artists. You'll need Marc's OK also, however...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 23:04:59 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: CT MT TNE T4 GT T5 <BR>
<BR>
> That still won't do him any good if he's using Netscape.  There is<BR>
> something wrong with the page when viewed with NS.  The only column<BR>
> on this page lists the various milieux and the New Poll link takes<BR>
> you to the Classic Reprints page, not the poll.<BR>
<BR>
Yup, I use Netflake.  They haven't ported IE to Linux yet, and for some <BR>
strange reason, i kinda doubt they will.  <grin><BR>
 <BR>
> To get to the multiple milieux poll you can go in the back door at<BR>
> pollit.com via http://vote.pollit.com/webpoll?ID=149637<BR>
<BR>
Thanxx.  That worked.  <grin><BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 06:15:20 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Quotations<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 05 Jan 2000 02:28:50 -0900, Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<SNIP><BR>
>Some other people might want to think about reducing<BR>
>the length of their sig files.<BR>
<SNIP><BR>
>A 14 line sig file seems like a bit much (no offense Pete). <BR>
>IIRC the suggested standard is five lines, perhaps if we on the<BR>
>Traveller mailing list tried to hold our sig files down to ten<BR>
>lines or so it would be preferable.<BR>
><BR>
No offense taken. I find it quite healthy to eat humble pie on a<BR>
regular basis - it's high in fiber! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, I've trimmed all of my sig files. I'm sorry if I bothered<BR>
anyone.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the<BR>
 lash."                              - Winston Churchill<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1682<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1683</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 6 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1683<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: xboat@egroups.com: MODERATED GT list<BR>
Re: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and TechLevel 2 and printing)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1679<BR>
Re Shipboard clothing<BR>
Re: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
RE: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
Re: Happy New Year! <BR>
Re: More letters from the front lines...<BR>
RE: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
RE: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and Tech Level 2 and printing)<BR>
Re: xboat@egroups.com: MODERATED GT list<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
Re: The Village People<BR>
Re: Re Shunning LL<BR>
Re: Re Small Things<BR>
Re: Family<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
Re: US 1st Amendment...<BR>
Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 22:51:30 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: xboat@egroups.com: MODERATED GT list<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 1/3/00 1:01 PM, gridlore@pop.mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> This is a community, not a research tank.<BR>
<BR>
Agreed in general, but I'd say it was a bit of both, and better at the<BR>
latter for the strengths of the former. Just my .02Cr.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 02:05:04 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and TechLevel 2 and printing)<BR>
<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav:  Somehow, I doubt that games in the time periods covered<BR>
> in Traveller have any more reality-checking than those we play now.<BR>
<BR>
Well, it's not a lack of reality-checking so much as it is the fact that<BR>
realism doesn't always make very entertaining games. I do think that it<BR>
wouldn't have hurt Microprose to throw me a frickin' bone and put a few more<BR>
American and African cultures!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:41:15 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1679<BR>
<BR>
>Actually topknots for both sexes could be attractive and convenient for<BR>
>shipboard life.<BR>
<BR>
What's convenient about it?  You have both the hassles of maintaining<BR>
a shave head and long hair.  However, I seriously doubt that convenience<BR>
would be a primary motivator in fashion, it usually isn't.<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:44:46 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re Shipboard clothing<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:08:46 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
>Ship's are likely to want pubic hair kept out of the filters. Hair is<BR>
>constantly falling out, yes, but the short and curlies are likely to be an<BR>
>added problem; hence IN Haircuts, IMTU, tend to be SHORT (Typically <4cm),<BR>
>required to be vaccumed daily. Depilatories and shaving can both be not<BR>
>only painful, but cause excessive itching.<BR>
<BR>
I really don't see hair as that much of a problem, if it was then<BR>
you are saying that a SF tech society needs to keep near clean room<BR>
conditions in order to keep "routine" space flight operating?  I'm<BR>
not sure the shuttle is event his strict.<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 00:11:52 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> 1.Would private ships have dress uniforms?<BR>
<BR>
Historically Some do.<BR>
<BR>
> 2.Would ex-military be allowed to wear their dress uniforms?  Currently, I<BR>
> don't think they can, but in the nobility laden OTU?<BR>
<BR>
Would say yes.<BR>
<BR>
> 3.If no to both of those, then I'd guess what's currently labelled as<BR>
> "acceptable" by that planet's population.<BR>
<BR>
Most like the most common case.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 23:41:07<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Collector Edition mail order<BR>
<BR>
At 12:52 AM 1/6/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
>Or the time at GDW (circa 1990) where the credit cardholder in South <BR>
>Carolina denied the charge, which turned out to have been called in by <BR>
>someone in jail in Pennsylvania. And the jail said that they couldn't do <BR>
>anything about it... prosecuting was too much trouble.<BR>
<BR>
Please tell us he was ordering Adventure 8.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 23:44:40<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
At 10:03 PM 1/5/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Former/honorable discharge US servicemen can wear their dress uniform, for <BR>
>just about everything for 30 days or less after discharge [the trip home], <BR>
>and then for legally defined special events [think American Legion parades]. <BR>
>I am sure the 3I will have the same sort of policy. Perhaps their discharge <BR>
>will give a time limit for everyday wear on the way home, based on the home <BR>
>of record. <BR>
<BR>
Since all former Imperial service members are technically "reserves"<BR>
(classified as the Ancients come back, and the last battalion of Newt file<BR>
clerks have gone down, who do we have left? reserves) They can wear their<BR>
dress unifroms.<BR>
<BR>
>Question: Does the 3I provide transportion home after discharge? That would <BR>
>account for the free passages, as the PCs who have them managed to convert <BR>
>their specific travel voucher for home into an open ticket, somehow.<BR>
<BR>
This function is handled by the Navy or the Army Materials and<BR>
Transportation Command.<BR>
<BR>
The service first looks for space avalible berths on Imperial vessels.<BR>
Failing that, travel vouchers are issued.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 23:46:56<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year! <BR>
<BR>
At 05:57 PM 1/5/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>> At 07:19 PM 1/1/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> >Well, it seems that most of the world survived intact. Just one question<BR>
>> >though; what on earth are we going to do with all these penguins?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> No, the question is what are THEY going to do with US...<BR>
><BR>
>Save us from Windoze?<BR>
<BR>
Only if you are good.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 23:53:03<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: More letters from the front lines...<BR>
<BR>
At 08:29 PM 1/5/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>"Woof woof arf ruff growwwf. Growl grr ruff woof. Woof woof<BR>
>bark bark bark. Howwwwwwwl. Barkbark ruff. Arf woof growf.<BR>
>Whine, whimper, whine, arf. Woof."<BR>
<BR>
Major John Roe, 798th Sylean Rangers, sighed, rubbed his muzzle, and turned<BR>
to the assembled staff.<BR>
<BR>
"They're just barking at you.  trying to make you waste valuable time.<BR>
Seem to have worked beautifully."<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"Soon the rapacious sea chickens/will carry you off<BR>
and wrap you in a hard shell, yum yum."<BR>
       Poorly translated Argentine Taco Bell jingle.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 00:03:39<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
At 12:01 PM 1/6/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Matthew Sheppard assumed he was going out for a good time.<BR>
><BR>
>So ?  I always assume I'm going to have a good time as well.<BR>
>There's no point in doing otherwise.<BR>
<BR>
Ah.  I just noticed th .nz  <BR>
<BR>
Matthew Sheppard was a gay college student in Colorado.  One night, at a<BR>
club, he met two men.  They all left together.<BR>
<BR>
The next day he was found tied to a split rail fence miles from town in<BR>
freezing weather.  He had been beaten severely, and died of his injuries.<BR>
His injuries were so bad that doctors could tell if he still had his right<BR>
eye or not.  The bones were that pulped.  They used rocks.<BR>
<BR>
At the trial of his killers, it came out that when they had discovered he<BR>
was gay, they decided to lure him out of the bar to "stomp him."<BR>
<BR>
>I hate to break it to you, Doug, as you're obviously already paranoid<BR>
>enough, but unless you post from an anonymizer or are doing other things to<BR>
>explicitly hide your identity, I could probably find you anyway, even<BR>
>without all that other information. It is remarkably easy to find someone<BR>
>based on just an email.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not paranoid.  I'm a bisexual man in America.  Every year at Pride<BR>
there are the protestors, who come with such seething hate that you can<BR>
feel it.  Check out a few of the Usenet groups like<BR>
alt.politics.homosexual, and count the number of death threats.<BR>
<BR>
I refuse to live in a prison for being what I am, be it GURPS author or<BR>
"pervert."  But I don't have to take abuse like LL's in what is, after all,<BR>
a closed mailing list.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 00:09:14<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and Tech Level 2 and printing)<BR>
<BR>
At 02:15 PM 1/5/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>On Wednesday, January 05, 2000 1:38 PM<BR>
>Douglas E. Berry said,<BR>
><BR>
>> I don't think so.. just about every culture that advanced out of the<BR>
>> stone age has developed writing.  It might be one of those vital links <BR>
>> that allows the culture to step up another notch.<BR>
><BR>
>I think you might be able to do it without writing specifically, but you<BR>
>need something to fill that area of longer term knowledge<BR>
>storage/retrieval.<BR>
<BR>
Another prioblem that just occured to me is the inherent danger of loosing<BR>
knowledge.  Look at Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire.. Centuries<BR>
of knowledge lost.  Writing alows you preserve that information, and to<BR>
disseminate it.<BR>
<BR>
The printing press makes that process much easier and faster.<BR>
<BR>
Also, in this theoretical world, technical knowledge would mean power.  As<BR>
you passed through TL 3, Guilds would probably become the real rulers of<BR>
the world, since they, and they alone control the access to the<BR>
hand-written manuals and directions to the Guild's craft.<BR>
<BR>
My God, I've just justified Vilanni culture.  They were late getting the<BR>
printing press!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 00:15:20<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: xboat@egroups.com: MODERATED GT list<BR>
<BR>
At 10:51 PM 1/5/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>Via electronic medium on 1/3/00 1:01 PM, gridlore@pop.mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> This is a community, not a research tank.<BR>
><BR>
>Agreed in general, but I'd say it was a bit of both, and better at the<BR>
>latter for the strengths of the former. Just my .02Cr.<BR>
<BR>
Which was sort of my point.  We're like a lab where all of the staff are<BR>
great friends and occasional shout "screw this, we're going to the beach!"<BR>
<BR>
Mostly, we stay on-topic, or find a way to wrestle things back on-topic,<BR>
but we occasionally go nuts.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 00:53:18 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> (Are there any artists or costumers on this list who would be interested<BR>
> in discussing Vilani, Zhodani, or Far Future Solomani art and clothing and<BR>
> homecrafts styles with me, either here or on Trav-Culture?  I am one of<BR>
> the few people I know that actually cares about stuff like that.  My main<BR>
> specific interest right now is what characters wear and how they do their<BR>
> hair, etc...  mostly because I just realized that if I wanted to dress up<BR>
> as a Traveller character I would probably just wear work clothes and if<BR>
> that wasn't appropriate for the character I would be stumped-- except that<BR>
> if I were Zhodani I would wear a big turban, but maybe not cause I'm a<BR>
> girl-type.)<BR>
><BR>
> > Is that gonna be after the K'Kree roast?<BR>
> ><BR>
> LOL.  Actually in the G:T stuff the K'Kree look kind of sweet but I<BR>
> remember really having problems with them in campaigns....<BR>
<BR>
Actully I am hoping to have the formal combat/court attire of the Clan<BR>
MacDude ready for the dinner.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We have<BR>
to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door. Knowledge<BR>
isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:26:12 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Village People<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Obviously all you Traveller fans who claim to be straight<BR>
> just do not realize your own personal hidden homosexual<BR>
> yearnings. Yearnings you can not admit to yourselves so<BR>
> you sublimate them through role playing, through<BR>
> _pretending_ to be someone else.<BR>
<BR>
*I* never claimed to be straight, honey. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> Ever wonder just why it is you are hanging out on a<BR>
> 99.5% male Traveller Mailing List? <BR>
<BR>
Come on over and I'll show you big boy. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> Anyone who disagrees with me in any way is obviously<BR>
> 100% wrong. :)<BR>
<BR>
Whip me, beat me, make me write bad checks.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:34:48 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Shunning LL<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Excuse me, but it would seem to me that everyone could set up their MAIL<BR>
>>FILTERS so that whenever they ran across a post from the person in question,<BR>
>>it would be automatically deleted. If your mail program was too primitive to<BR>
>>have filters, you see his address, DON'T CLICK ON IT...just TRASH it.<BR>
>><BR>
> Won't work for those of us on Digest mode.<BR>
<BR>
And (until I feel like digging into the source code) my mail reader<BR>
doesn't *have* filters. I'm currently making do with batch files and grep.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:40:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Small Things<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> One thing about the question, "how small can a data storage device get<BR>
>> before it's too small for people to use?":<BR>
>> <BR>
>> There's nothing to stop a manufacturer from putting a microgram-sized<BR>
>> data storage device in a pencil-sized, cheap plastic handle.<BR>
<BR>
Find a dead TV remote or a dead *cheap* calculator. Open them up.<BR>
You'll find *one* chip. And it won't even be very big. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:43:36 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Family<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> > Y'see Kiri... we're all Family. Humans.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> "It's not my planet, monkey-boy!"<BR>
>> <BR>
>> <oops, there goes the cover.... :-) ><BR>
>> <BR>
>> Work for Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, do you Leonard?<BR>
>> :)<BR>
>> <BR>
><BR>
> We're still out our order of Trugeon bombers...<BR>
<BR>
That's "Truncheon"...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:13:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 08:54:56 -0500<BR>
> From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
>>The classic Niven Belter often operated out of a small singleship.  No air<BR>
>>lock, you lived in your suit.  You had to get the helmet on in a hurry in<BR>
>>case of a hull breach.  Long hair got in the way and in the machinery.<BR>
><BR>
>>Shuttle astronauts don't 'hurry' into EVA suits.  The women have plenty of<BR>
>>time to put up their hair prior to putting on the suit.<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, the shuttle reference is more apt that you realize, but<BR>
> cuts the other way.  One of the problems facing a manned mission<BR>
> to Mars is space suits that can be used in "real" conditions.<BR>
> Currently space suits have to have totally clean undamaged<BR>
> seal, no dust, abbrasions, looose hairs (yes, even with short hair<BR>
> you will get these), etc.  For a manned mission to Mars<BR>
> a space suit is going to have to be able to realiably seal<BR>
> even when not clean.  This goes double for suits in the<BR>
> Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Also, we really don't have a *good* solution for suits that can be worn<BR>
more than a few hours. Waste handling is a *real* problem. Urine is<BR>
"easy" to handle for men, and a bit of a pain for women. Feces are the<BR>
big problem. <BR>
<BR>
For those who aren't aware of *how* the problem is handled, even now,<BR>
let me merely note that "disposable diapers" are a spin-off technology<BR>
from NASA. So are the pre-moistened, disposable cleanup wipes.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:34:12 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Y2K Bug<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> >> >You LOSER!  How can you make such an idiotic claim?????  I mean, I know<BR>
>> >> >you're not an American, but SHEESH!!!!!  I want you off this list!!!!!!<BR>
>> >> >Enough of your ad hominem crypto-humanism pansy psychobabble!!!!!<BR>
>> >> <BR>
>> >> OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
>> >> <BR>
>> > Me me me ME!!!  Can I do it?  PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE?  I've been good!<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Oh all right, Kiri. But please remember to mop up the hydrotherapy<BR>
>> suite after the two of you are done with it. <BR>
><BR>
> What, no electroshock???  We're slipping to new lows here, kids...<BR>
<BR>
I didn't say anything one way or the other about *that*. I merely noted<BR>
a tendency to not clean up properly in one area. Whether that means<BR>
they don't *use* the other areas, or are merely less "messy" in them is<BR>
not for me to say. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:54:13 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
In mail kenji writes:<BR>
<BR>
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> >>I know BayCon has Party Floors, I wonder if they have BBQ Floors?  :D<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > Well, Disclave has B&D floors...<BR>
>> <BR>
>> But the sprinklers are *not* to be used as suspension points! :-)<BR>
><BR>
> What if you're _into_ water sports?<BR>
<BR>
Still doesn't mean you can non-consensually involve everyone else on<BR>
the floor.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:39:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: US 1st Amendment...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> If you're asking about death threats, then no, the 1st Amendment to the<BR>
>> US Constitution does not apply.  If you're asking about annoying speech,<BR>
>> then it does apply.  "Obscenity" is one of those gray areas that the<BR>
>> Supreme Court seems to do its utmost to rule on definitively.  [As one<BR>
>> Supreme Court Justice (I forget the name) is quoted as saying of<BR>
>> obscenity, "I know it when I see it."]<BR>
>><BR>
>> However, other than the "equal [air] time" doctrine that has been<BR>
>> applied to broadcast editorial comment from the broadcast station's<BR>
>> ownership or management, there is _no_ right to a public forum for one's<BR>
>> opinions, at someone else's expense.  Thus, I can write a letter to my<BR>
>> local newspaper, but the paper is under no obligation to print it.  If I<BR>
>> want to ensure that my views are widely disseminated, I can always start<BR>
>> my own newspaper.<BR>
<BR>
The "equal time" rule was an FCC regulation, and they dropped it<BR>
*years* ago rather than face a legal challenge that might have severely<BR>
restricted their ability to regulate content.<BR>
<BR>
>> Note that syndicated political commentary (such as radio talk show host<BR>
>> Rush Limbaugh's program) has not been treated as station editorial<BR>
>> commentary, and has therefore not been constrained (in practice, anyway)<BR>
>> by any "equal time" doctrine.<BR>
>><BR>
>> **WARNING:  Non-attorney comments precede**<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
> Okay, clarification please... your amendment is a "Restricted Free Speech"<BR>
> (isn't that an oxymoron?), where you CAN say anything, BUT nothing that's to<BR>
> offensive?<BR>
<BR>
No. What most folks don't understand is that while you have the freedom<BR>
to say damn near anything, you are responsible for the *consequences*.<BR>
Thus, you can be sued for libel or slander without the First Amendment<BR>
being an issue.<BR>
<BR>
"Obscenity" is (IMO) not really a proper restriction. But it can't last<BR>
a lot longer since the Internet is showing how poorly "community<BR>
standards" fit the real world.<BR>
<BR>
> And is it against the law there to threaten someone?  In Oz (and perhaps the<BR>
> U.K.?), police cannot act on a threat (unless you can "pay" them to, by<BR>
> being influential... but even then they can only look into it - I just got<BR>
> that from the horses mouth a few minutes ago, a copper mate).<BR>
<BR>
It depends. You'd need a laywer to detail the ins and outs of that one.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:13:42 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>It makes you feel any better, my last computer was delivered by a crew of 4<BR>
>>and they needed a fork lift to get it off the truck. <weg><BR>
><BR>
> Oh, woe. I came --->  <--- this close to being given an 'old' Silicon<BR>
> Graphics Onyx 3 (that was being chucked and nobody in the department wanted)<BR>
> last summer, but disposal regulations got in the way and it had to be<BR>
> burned/shredded/hitwithsticks.<BR>
><BR>
> Even if the damn thing hadn't worked, I'd still have liked to use it as a<BR>
> coffee table...<BR>
<BR>
I understand *exactly* how you feel. I almost had the company's<BR>
original LAN server (68000 based, *disk* server, running UCSD P-system,<BR>
support both PCs and Apple II systems running P-system or MS-DOS (PC)<BR>
or DOS (Apple)). <BR>
<BR>
But as with you, "regs" got in the way. Actually, it wasn't even "regs"<BR>
it was my manager deciding that it "wouldn't look good" if I got it. <BR>
<BR>
So I didn't even try for the Data General system they got rid of<BR>
shortly before I left. It would have made a *killer* BBS... 75 serial<BR>
ports... with an option for another 100 or so. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:05:41 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
>Also, we really don't have a *good* solution for suits that can be worn<BR>
>more than a few hours. Waste handling is a *real* problem. Urine is<BR>
>"easy" to handle for men, and a bit of a pain for women. Feces are the<BR>
>big problem.<BR>
>For those who aren't aware of *how* the problem is handled, even now,<BR>
>let me merely note that "disposable diapers" are a spin-off technology<BR>
>from NASA. So are the pre-moistened, disposable cleanup wipes.<BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
    Don't be ridiculous! Don't you know that fictional heroes never urinate,<BR>
defecate, menstruate or any other sort of -ate?! The can leap from air raft<BR>
to air raft without messing up their hair too! You can be so unrealistic!<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:25:26 +0000<BR>
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
Subject: Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> course, GDW's art would  have  reflected  contemporary  modes  of<BR>
>> modesty, but perhaps the 'reality' is that all IN crews (etc) are<BR>
>> nude!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Thirdly... as a female.... I don't want to be too crude here... but there<BR>
>are valid reasons for at least a loincloth and most cultures do at least<BR>
>wear some kind of skirt/briefs.  To put it bluntly, I don't want to sit on<BR>
>a chair that another woman has been sitting in not wearing any panties.<BR>
>ESPECIALLY not 3-7 days out of every 28 or so, but really not at any time.<BR>
>And most men aren't too comfortable letting their dangly bits just dangle.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
IIRC, Heinlein often had families on board spacecraft (where they could set<BR>
the temperature to whatever they wanted) wearing nothing at all.  I confess<BR>
to being intrigued as to the practicality of this as a teenager!<BR>
<BR>
>I can see minimal clothing but I can't see none.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I could envision no clothing in certain cultures (or Heinlein type<BR>
families) or at certain times.  However, I would imagine that it would<BR>
likely not be compulsory or permanent.  (i.e. if it was practised it would<BR>
be perfectly acceptable for some to be wearing something at certain times<BR>
of the month say, or someone who was new the culture being told it was<BR>
acceptable for them to wear something till they were used to it).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
tc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 05:03:17 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
Since this discussion began, I've been kind of surprised at some of the<BR>
directions it has taken. I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry!<BR>
<BR>
Okay, first things first. Fashion is not merely what models are wearing as<BR>
they walk up and down the runway. Fashion can be seen, and probably should<BR>
be seen for the purposes of this discussion, as a complex mesh of a variety<BR>
of social, as well as practical factors. If you think of fashion in this<BR>
sense, it becomes an amazing tool for running a game, or building an<BR>
interesting game world.<BR>
<BR>
Practicality can be, and frequently is, a factor. Scientific developments<BR>
are a factor. Social status is a factor. Economic status is a factor.<BR>
Ethnicity can be, and frequently is, a factor. Nationality is a factor.<BR>
Nearby ethnicities, nationalities and groups are usually a factor. To tell<BR>
you the truth, I can think of few things that aren't a factor in what people<BR>
choose to wear, what they do with their bodies and what they do with their<BR>
hair.<BR>
<BR>
While practicality is a factor, it is certainly not the only factor, and it<BR>
doesn't have to look much like practicality five, ten or a hundred years<BR>
after the fact. In the United States, Cowboy hats, at one time, and among a<BR>
select group, were *extremely* practical for a certain segment of the<BR>
population. That segment of the population is, for the most part, extinct,<BR>
but fans of country music, from the East Coast to the West Coast still wear<BR>
the hats, even though they may not need to collect drinking water in the<BR>
rain or keep the sun out of their eyes in the harsh desert.<BR>
<BR>
However, in the place and era that cowboys were existed (they do still<BR>
today, but marginally), cowboy clothing identified one as a cowboy.<BR>
<BR>
To apply a similar idea to spacers, for example, it could be said that at<BR>
one time short hair was a requirement or a necessity. Maybe although the<BR>
need has died out, the style still remains. Roleplaying games frequently<BR>
play down the effects of clothing, hairstyle and various other elements of<BR>
fashion on the way others will react. Sure, some have rules or guidelines<BR>
for how a generalized "appearance" can impact conversations, but what I mean<BR>
goes beyond that.<BR>
<BR>
A spacer with long hair may be seen as a "Holiday spacer", or at least way<BR>
out of their league. Spacers at bars might play tricks on such people, or<BR>
make them the butt of jokes. If handled properly, it make take a player some<BR>
time to realize *why* it is that folks don't take them seriously. On the<BR>
other hand, an out-of-step spacer (or a whole crew of them) could start a<BR>
sweeping fashion trend as a result of a highly publicized adventure.<BR>
<BR>
That's fashion in general. Variations within certain clothing selections can<BR>
signal a whole hell of a lot. First, a real world example:<BR>
<BR>
When I was a teenager, skinhead groups in my area were much more common than<BR>
they are nowadays. I remember the day I learned to "read" boots. White laces<BR>
in both boots meant you were white power, but white laces in oxblood colored<BR>
boots meant you were a neo-nazi. Purple laces in your boots meant you<BR>
listened to punk, but a purple lace in one boot and a white lace in the<BR>
other meant that you were for punk / skin unity. A black lace in one boot<BR>
and a white lace in the other identified you as a SHARP (that is, a<BR>
Skin-Head Against Racial Prejudice). Two yellow laces meant, in some<BR>
circles, that you had killed a member of a minority group. A pair of black<BR>
laces meant nothing.<BR>
<BR>
Wearing the wrong *laces* to the wrong party at the wrong warehouse could be<BR>
a painful mistake. This isn't an indictment of such variations. During the<BR>
60s and 70s, when it became acceptable for men to sport a small earring in<BR>
one ear, which ear you had it put in served as a signal of your sexuality. I<BR>
think it was Doug who brought up the use of the red tie for a similar<BR>
purpose in another thread. My apologies if I got the source wrong there.<BR>
<BR>
To apply something like this to Traveller is also fascinating. Different<BR>
factions of spacers could have slight variations in appearance which<BR>
actually serve as a signal for something else. A really twisted GM with some<BR>
free time could come up with really interesting combinations.<BR>
<BR>
"No! For the third time tonight, I am *not* gay, I am *not* an advocate of<BR>
Solomani-power, I am *not* in the Ine Giver and I have *never* eaten a<BR>
K'Kree! Where the *hell* do you people get these ideas?"<BR>
<BR>
Of course there can be minor variations from subsector to subsector, and<BR>
sector to sector, or whatever level you deem interesting. This, in and of<BR>
itself, can lead to some very interesting and very subtle adventure nuggets.<BR>
The characters, who are buddying up with some belters to get information on<BR>
something harmless get the attention of some nasty belters, who, seeing that<BR>
the adventurers are out of step with certain signals, think that they're<BR>
Imperial Naval agents and decide to try and snuff them.<BR>
<BR>
Still, these are just some of the more obvious things. I think that it's a<BR>
big mistake to try to reduce "fashion" to some form of lowest common<BR>
denominator, as some folks seem to want to do. Of *course* practicality is<BR>
going to factor into it in subtle, and not so subtle ways. Just about<BR>
everything else will too!<BR>
<BR>
I am too beat to go on right now.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1683<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 6 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1684<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: TRAVELLER in the Greensboro area<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: Hair<BR>
Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: Voice of Reason (Solomani Version)<BR>
Re: Old...<BR>
Threats to kill<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
RE: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and Tech Level 2 and printing)<BR>
Re: Reality and TechLevel 2 and printing<BR>
RE: What is it with this airlock thing!?<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Top Ten Games You'll Never See (was Re: Village People)<BR>
Re: "Family"<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:45:46 -0500<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER in the Greensboro area<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:33:00 -0500<BR>
>From: "J. Mark Brooks" <jmbrooks@bigfoot.com><BR>
>Subject: Available TRAVELLER games in the Greensboro, NC area<BR>
><BR>
>I'm looking for somebody with a campaign in the Greensboro NC area, or who<BR>
>would be interested in participating in a campaign.<BR>
<BR>
I'm in Fayetteville -- too far for a regular campaign, I'm afraid. If you<BR>
get enough response for a quorum, though, please let me know. Perhaps I can<BR>
drive up every few weeks for a guest appearance.<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
<BR>
Chris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 21:24:17 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
>Of course there can be minor variations from subsector to subsector, and<BR>
>sector to sector, or whatever level you deem interesting. This, in and of<BR>
>itself, can lead to some very interesting and very subtle adventure<BR>
nuggets.<BR>
>The characters, who are buddying up with some belters to get information on<BR>
>something harmless get the attention of some nasty belters, who, seeing<BR>
that<BR>
>the adventurers are out of step with certain signals, think that they're<BR>
>Imperial Naval agents and decide to try and snuff them.<BR>
><BR>
>Still, these are just some of the more obvious things. I think that it's a<BR>
>big mistake to try to reduce "fashion" to some form of lowest common<BR>
>denominator, as some folks seem to want to do. Of *course* practicality is<BR>
>going to factor into it in subtle, and not so subtle ways. Just about<BR>
>everything else will too!<BR>
><BR>
>I am too beat to go on right now.<BR>
<BR>
    I agree with Nearly everything you say except I think its foolish to<BR>
apply these standards to a culture that spans a couple of thousand planets.<BR>
Australian skinheads may not of understood your local skinhead social<BR>
signals and that's just on one planet. Dominant cultures will subdue less<BR>
vigourous cultures though, the American Stetson is steadily replaing more<BR>
standard hat styles in rural Australia but when a dominant culture does<BR>
swamp another, these "insider" signals lose their meaning.<BR>
    Some more tired thoughts.<BR>
    Jim.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 10:35:39 GMT<BR>
From: "Jonathan Lupton" <jonathanlupton@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hair<BR>
<BR>
>The completely shaven head has in many cultures been a sign of <BR>
> >slavery,degredation, punishment, childhood, and other low status states <BR>
>of being.<BR>
<BR>
Ideal for the engineering crew of a starship then :)<BR>
<BR>
>Actually topknots for both sexes could be attractive and convenient for <BR>
>shipboard life.<BR>
<BR>
Oh no I just had a horrible picture of a Dragon Lance Kender in<BR>
space, in battledress complete with sling staffs, scary. I think I'll go and <BR>
lie down and try and forget about it.<BR>
<BR>
J.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:50:16 +0000<BR>
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
Subject: Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
<BR>
I'd written:<BR>
>>>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>Can I ask the assembled brilliance on this list how feasible it would be to<BR>
>>>have a TL 2 world that hasn't developed printing yet?  Would it be within<BR>
>>>the margins of 'variation' for TL development or would it be a pretty basic<BR>
>>>requirement for achieving that tech level?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the responses on the subject.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote in reply to someone:<BR>
<BR>
>>How about societies that never develop writing.  What TL could be reached<BR>
>>based on an oral tradition?  I would think maybe TL4.<BR>
<BR>
>I don't think so.. just about every culture that advanced out of the stone<BR>
>age has developed writing.  It might be one of those vital links that<BR>
>allows the culture to step up another notch.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Just to clarify, I was specifically interested in *printing*.  The world I was<BR>
 thinking of does have writing on scrolls.  I was basically curious as to how<BR>
believable folks would find a Traveller world that was TL2 but had no printing yet.<BR>
<BR>
I wanted to set an adventure in the Spinward Marches but couldn't find a TL1 world<BR>
within a jump or two of a TLA+ world.  (Other criteria: both worlds must have<BR>
breathable atmospheres, the TL1 world would have to have an E class starport, a<BR>
reasonably sized population the possibility of a large desert - no waterworlds;<BR>
 the TLA+ world could be pretty much anything but some large lakes would be nice.<BR>
<BR>
The best I could find was TL2 near a TLA+ that met all the above and it set me<BR>
to thinking that it could be one of those variations of UWP that occurs.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
All this is not to suggest that the discussion about how far TL could go without<BR>
even writing isn't interesting...<BR>
<BR>
(Which reminds me to ask - does anyone have or know of a good description of just<BR>
how information was encoded on the quipu knotted strings I've heard so much about?)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Then "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>You could easily have any of a several fields anywhere within +2/-2 TL of<BR>
>base TL for a given world.  I reccomend looking to the categories in the<BR>
>"Technology Chart" (In CT, it's in The Traveller Book; MT: in the Referee's<BR>
>Companion. It is a 2 page layout), and generating a 2d3-4 throw for each<BR>
>category. The Categories are: Personal Military, Heavy Military,<BR>
>Comp/Robotics, Communications, Environment, Medical,  Land Transport, Water<BR>
>Transport, Air Transport, Space Transport, and Energy Production. Or assign<BR>
>differences by feel.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Excellent thought (and sounds a lot easier to calculate than the _World Builder's<BR>
 Handbook_ way of doing things.  I think that answers my question.  It<BR>
wouldn't cause too much of a suspension of disbelief.  I just didn't want<BR>
someone pointing out that some virtue of TL2 would absolutely require<BR>
printing to be available.<BR>
<BR>
If I can go up to TL3 I'll recheck my map of the Spinward Marches.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
<BR>
tc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:03:21 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
From:           	"Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Date sent:      	Wed, 5 Jan 2000 21:11:09 -0500<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 8:19 PM<BR>
<BR>
> > Plus remember, that for men, those jangly bits are not entirely<BR>
> > under your own control. I don't know any male naturists who<BR>
> > haven't had at least one embarrassing situation.<BR>
<BR>
> You know, when thinking about naturalists, I had often pondered<BR>
> this myself. How in the hell do they get around that?  Do they get<BR>
> in trouble or what? what are the societal expectations in a<BR>
> naturalist society?<BR>
<BR>
Naturalists would probably write a paper on the subject :*>. <BR>
Naturists on the other hand deal with it in a rather different fashion. <BR>
Mostly its politely ignored (everybody knows it happens and <BR>
discreetly looks the other way). Generally one takes a quick dip in <BR>
a handy body of water (there's more than one reason why most <BR>
nudist activities are near water) or one discreetly covers the area <BR>
with ones trusty towel. Towels (or something similar) are essential <BR>
when going nude for any length of time, mostly for sitting on. <BR>
Nudists have evolved a whole range of social customs such as not <BR>
wearing sunglasses (so you can see where people are looking), <BR>
ignoring certain bodily functions, always carrying a towel or <BR>
cushion to sit on etc. to deal with these sort of things. Actually, <BR>
one of the biggest problems with being nude is the lack of pockets!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Andrew etc<BR>
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 02:44:59 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>> Well I can confirm that even the most 'dedicated' naturists I've met<BR>
>> (and some of them can verge on religious ferver at times) allow the<BR>
>> dictates of common sense to guide their choice of clothing when it<BR>
>> comes to things such as cooking and the use of power tools :*><BR>
><BR>
> ...and some don't! I worked with one for years, very vocal. She had a number<BR>
> of burns on her upper thighs where she dropped jewelry she was working on in<BR>
> her lap.<BR>
<BR>
Sheesh!<BR>
<BR>
I used to not bother getting dressed unless I was going out or expected<BR>
visitors. First time I got a bit over enthusiastic flipping an egg and<BR>
splashed hot grease on my upper thigh, I decided that cooking was best<BR>
done *clothed*!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 02:53:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Voice of Reason (Solomani Version)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, I have not. I have the AM: Solomani, but I have researched Soviet<BR>
> propaganda and watch the Psicorp/Nightwatch episodes of Babylon 5.<BR>
<BR>
Try to dig up a copy of a book a friend gave me for Christmas about 10<BR>
years back:<BR>
<BR>
"Chekisty: History of the KGB" (and it's predecessors...)<BR>
<BR>
When someone at work commented on it I merely smiled and said I was<BR>
studying it for tips on administering the LAN. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 02:58:28 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Old...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> I'm 41 and proud to be an old perv!<BR>
>> <BR>
>> --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
Got ya beat! 45 next month...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:24:43 -0000<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Threats to kill<BR>
<BR>
A few days ago a bloke in Durham (UK) was arrested for "Possession of a<BR>
firearm and making threats to kill"<BR>
<BR>
Threatening injury *is* a crime in the UK and can be acted upon by the<BR>
police if it seems likely that the culprit has the means/will to carry out<BR>
the threat. I think it really has to be linked to, say, possession of a<BR>
weapon for the police to act, though.<BR>
<BR>
But as a comment on another topic: Neither Doug nor anyone else should have<BR>
to tolerate threats to his life or well-being for any reason, and certainly<BR>
not for what he is (GURPS Writer, Bisexual, Penguin or Whatever It Is That<BR>
Kenji Claims To Be)*. It's out of keeping with the essentially friendly<BR>
spirit of the TML (I have come to associate certain names I see frequently<BR>
on the list with the word "friends") and with basic decency and respect for<BR>
our fellow Humans/Sophonts/Aquatic Birds (put yourself in whichever category<BR>
you think fits best).<BR>
<BR>
LL's crass comments were mainly aimed at a class of people which includes<BR>
myself (GURPS Writers) but Doug feels that he has more reason to be afraid<BR>
than I. He's seen more blind hate and prejudice than myself, so maybe he's<BR>
right. I'm more used to idiots who like to talk tough because they're 8000<BR>
miles away or whatever (I do know of one guy who tried this with a friend of<BR>
mine, who ran into him by accident at a convention. It was... ugly. But I<BR>
digress).<BR>
<BR>
Point is, this list is full of varied and valuable people, some of whose<BR>
world view differs from my own. I try to value that perspective, even if I<BR>
can't understand it. Fact: there are some things that I Just Don't Get. Not<BR>
going to expand on that, but it it's irrelevant, because: Fact: we are a<BR>
community, almost a civilisation, unto ourselves. Full of different people<BR>
with different ways of doing things, but each one valuable and valued for<BR>
who they are.<BR>
<BR>
Not "What". "Who".<BR>
<BR>
And an attack on one of our own is an attack on all of us.<BR>
<BR>
We must not tolerate it.<BR>
<BR>
MJD<BR>
<BR>
* Sorry, Kenji. Couldn't resist that. What is it that you're claiming to be<BR>
today?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:40:55 +0000<BR>
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
"Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>You know, when thinking about naturalists, I had often pondered this<BR>
myself.<BR>
>How in the hell do they get around that?  Do they get in trouble or what?<BR>
>what are the societal expectations in a naturalist society?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps the following will help:<BR>
<BR>
>http://www.johnash.freeuk.com/faq2.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
WARNING: This page may not meet the T4 decency requirements depending on<BR>
your outlook.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The above link came from the informative:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.mbay.net/~cgd/naturism/bnhome.htm<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(I learn something new every day!)<BR>
<BR>
tc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:46:00 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Tech Levels (was Re: OT (w/penguines): Reality and Tech Level 2 and printing)<BR>
<BR>
Eris wrote:<BR>
> Mark S Peace wrote:<BR>
> > Well, in CT TL9 was listed as 'circa 1990 to 2000'.  See any laser<BR>
> > rifles, air/rafts, jumps drives around?  2000 must be a good year.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hey, we *could* build them...if only we knew how. <g><BR>
<BR>
Exactly.  People keep  confusing  TL  (production  ability)  with<BR>
'science level' and inventiveness.  So if someone figured out how<BR>
Traveller style laser rifles, air/rafts, and jump  drives  worked<BR>
they could all be built with contemporary industrial knowledge.<BR>
<BR>
(Or does everyone think  that  every  world  in  the  3I  has  to<BR>
'reinvent the wheel' every time they increase their local TL?)<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:19:44 +1100<BR>
From: "AB" <ab@rossmack.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Reality and TechLevel 2 and printing<BR>
<BR>
> >How about societies that never develop writing.  What TL could be reached<BR>
> >based on an oral tradition?  I would think maybe TL4.<BR>
><BR>
> I don't think so.. just about every culture that advanced out of the stone<BR>
> age has developed writing.  It might be one of those vital links that<BR>
> allows the culture to step up another notch.<BR>
<BR>
It might become more possible if they are psionic; allowing for greater<BR>
possibility of retention and transfer of complex concepts.<BR>
<BR>
Also, there's a difference between writing and printing.  Printing allows<BR>
literacy and mass linearity of thought.  You might be able to get to quite a<BR>
high tech level without literacy and an elite class maintaining and<BR>
retaining technical knowledge, with the workers doing a limited set of jobs<BR>
by rote.  (Egad!  Did I just describe a Fuedal Technocracy?)<BR>
<BR>
- -AB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:59:01 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: What is it with this airlock thing!?<BR>
<BR>
Jim Lawrie wrote:<BR>
> I was think that airlocks should be rated in "Man spaces," so<BR>
> you could design differently sized airlocks.<BR>
<BR>
(Sorry if this has already been covered, I lost the rest of  this<BR>
thread in list triage.)<BR>
<BR>
AHL (IIRC) has a rule about a 4-man limit per  deck  plan  square<BR>
(1.5m x 1.5m squares).  This is a normal dress/equiped 'man',  so<BR>
I would say that a 1 square airlock could hold 2 people  in  full<BR>
vacc suit and PLSS.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone ever try to map their RL house/flat/whatever in deck  plan<BR>
squares?  Makes you realise how big a 2x3 stateroom is.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:01:58 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
I'm really not offended by anything but hate crimes, abuse and the like.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 6:40 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >You know, when thinking about naturalists, I had often pondered this<BR>
> myself.<BR>
> >How in the hell do they get around that?  Do they get in trouble or what?<BR>
> >what are the societal expectations in a naturalist society?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Perhaps the following will help:<BR>
><BR>
> >http://www.johnash.freeuk.com/faq2.html<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> WARNING: This page may not meet the T4 decency requirements depending on<BR>
> your outlook.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> The above link came from the informative:<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.mbay.net/~cgd/naturism/bnhome.htm<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> (I learn something new every day!)<BR>
><BR>
> tc<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:14:45 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
I don't think I could ever do this.  I have major issues about myself that I<BR>
may never get over so I'd never feel comfortable being nude with a bunch of<BR>
people.  I do feel however, that clothes are abused sometimes in that they<BR>
are used to intimidate people or flaunt one's financial superiority.  I<BR>
would think in a society as advanced as the 3rd Imperium that people would<BR>
largely be over these things.<BR>
<BR>
As for the towel carrying, is this where Douglas Adams got his idea for the<BR>
"towel" being the most important item in a Hitchhiker's bag of tricks?<BR>
(hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 6:03 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> From:           "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
> Date sent:      Wed, 5 Jan 2000 21:11:09 -0500<BR>
><BR>
> > From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 8:19 PM<BR>
><BR>
> > > Plus remember, that for men, those jangly bits are not entirely<BR>
> > > under your own control. I don't know any male naturists who<BR>
> > > haven't had at least one embarrassing situation.<BR>
><BR>
> > You know, when thinking about naturalists, I had often pondered<BR>
> > this myself. How in the hell do they get around that?  Do they get<BR>
> > in trouble or what? what are the societal expectations in a<BR>
> > naturalist society?<BR>
><BR>
> Naturalists would probably write a paper on the subject :*>.<BR>
> Naturists on the other hand deal with it in a rather different fashion.<BR>
> Mostly its politely ignored (everybody knows it happens and<BR>
> discreetly looks the other way). Generally one takes a quick dip in<BR>
> a handy body of water (there's more than one reason why most<BR>
> nudist activities are near water) or one discreetly covers the area<BR>
> with ones trusty towel. Towels (or something similar) are essential<BR>
> when going nude for any length of time, mostly for sitting on.<BR>
> Nudists have evolved a whole range of social customs such as not<BR>
> wearing sunglasses (so you can see where people are looking),<BR>
> ignoring certain bodily functions, always carrying a towel or<BR>
> cushion to sit on etc. to deal with these sort of things. Actually,<BR>
> one of the biggest problems with being nude is the lack of pockets!<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Andrew etc<BR>
> Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
> Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
>  "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
>  always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:08:06 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us><BR>
Subject: Top Ten Games You'll Never See (was Re: Village People)<BR>
<BR>
The top ten video games you'll never, ever see:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.gamecenter.com/Features/Exclusives/Notseen/index.html<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Check out #8. A popular hit in the Solomani Sphere! ;)<BR>
<BR>
Enjoy,<BR>
Jason<BR>
<BR>
=============================<BR>
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV<BR>
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375<BR>
Internet Address:  jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us<BR>
<BR>
Most computer virus and email alerts are hoaxes.  For more info, check out:<BR>
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm<BR>
==============================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 09:10:35 EST<BR>
From: "Roger Barr" <travelergm@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "Family"<BR>
<BR>
> >> LSLISTD [Score: 1 pt]<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Huh?  LSLISTD?  Is that like acid, cut with the the list?<BR>
><BR>
>I actually focused on the last three letters...<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
><BR>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
Doug,<BR>
Do condoms come in superdense?<BR>
:)<BR>
Roger<BR>
travelergm@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 07:12:00 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, David P. Summers wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, the shuttle reference is more apt that you realize, but<BR>
> cuts the other way.  One of the problems facing a manned mission<BR>
> to Mars is space suits that can be used in "real" conditions.<BR>
> Currently space suits have to have totally clean undamaged<BR>
> seal, no dust, abbrasions, looose hairs (yes, even with short hair<BR>
> you will get these), etc.  For a manned mission to Mars<BR>
> a space suit is going to have to be able to realiably seal<BR>
> even when not clean.  This goes double for suits in the<BR>
> Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
This brings up a point I have been pondering <BR>
<BR>
("I dunno Brain, but where are we going to get that much bubblebath?")<BR>
<BR>
Ahem.<BR>
<BR>
The Imperium (and it's predecessors) has been in space for a long time. A<BR>
LONG time. Longer, practically, than us monkeyfolk have been doing<BR>
elementary things like writing and building large regular solids out<BR>
of big blocks...<BR>
<BR>
I suspect they'll have solved problems like loose hairs, pencil shavings,<BR>
and vaccsuit seals by then. I suspect, in fact, that they'll have<BR>
forgotten it was even a problem, ever.<BR>
<BR>
Hair fashion will be dictated by exactly that: fashion. Only rarely has it<BR>
been dictated by function, if ever. <BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:39:25 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
Doug, I'd just like to apologize for those who protest against your<BR>
God-given right to choose a lifestyle; after all, it states in the bible<BR>
we're ALL equal and that no one has the right to judge (condemn) anyone<BR>
else.  I just fail to understand why the rest of these hate-filled people<BR>
don't understand this.  What are they afraid of?  I worked with a guy for 3<BR>
years and never knew he was bi-sexual.  We got along great and it was only<BR>
after I left the company and had met him a couple years later that I did<BR>
find out.  We had gone to a 'rave' (downtown Portland, ore, across from<BR>
Powell's books) and he was driving (I hated Portland traffic then but<BR>
realize its nothing now after driving in Boston).  He parked the truck at<BR>
his apartment and we sat there talking for a while.  Then he informed me<BR>
about his lifestyle.  Then there was one of those uncomfortable silences<BR>
where no one is speaking.  I know he was waiting for some sort of signal<BR>
from me but I really don't swing that way.  I wasn't mad at the guy and<BR>
certainly don't hate him and we are still friends to this day.  I never felt<BR>
'threatened' by him, and I certainly didn't catch the "gay virus" as some<BR>
ignorant people must think of it.  He's just an average joe like me who has<BR>
some different likes.  To me, hating homosexuals makes about as much sense<BR>
as hating people who put bananas on their peanut butter sandwiches in lieu<BR>
of using jelly.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 12:03 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
><BR>
> I'm not paranoid.  I'm a bisexual man in America.  Every year at Pride<BR>
> there are the protestors, who come with such seething hate that you can<BR>
> feel it.  Check out a few of the Usenet groups like<BR>
> alt.politics.homosexual, and count the number of death threats.<BR>
><BR>
> I refuse to live in a prison for being what I am, be it GURPS author or<BR>
> "pervert."  But I don't have to take abuse like LL's in what is, after<BR>
all,<BR>
> a closed mailing list.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 07:33:02 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
>> By saying "Ich bin *ein* Berliner", he change the meaning of the<BR>
>> sentence to "I am a jelly doughnut". Similarly, "Ich bin ein<BR>
>> Frankfurter" would translate as "I am a sausage", not "I am from<BR>
>> Frankfurt".<BR>
><BR>
>From what I was told when I was in Germany, it depends on where you're from.<BR>
>Folks from Southern Germany might well leave in the "ein", folks from<BR>
>Northern Germany will probably not. Even then, it may vary from place to<BR>
>place.<BR>
<BR>
No offence, Chris, but I'm inclined to take the word of someone who<BR>
was born and raised there, took university-level courses in it on the<BR>
way to obtaining a teaching degree, then taught it in high school for<BR>
several years... :)<BR>
<BR>
(Besides, my mom is from southern Germany.)<BR>
<BR>
Word has it that when JFK made his linguistic blunder, there was some<BR>
tittering in the crowd, but the Germans were too polite to actually<BR>
break into laughter -- they knew what he was trying to say...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1684<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1685</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 6 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1685<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: fashions<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Traveller Conversion (was: GURPS vs. T5?)<BR>
Would like to get hold of a FF&S2 (for T4)<BR>
Re: Way OT, not even relevant to GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: Threats to kill<BR>
re:  No Rimward Expansion?<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
RE: No Rimward Expansion?<BR>
RE: Irony<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
OT:  Implications =)<BR>
Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
Re: US 1st Amendment...<BR>
Re: Implications =)<BR>
Re: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
Re: Media Stereotypes and SF/F Art<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1684<BR>
RE: fashions (long)<BR>
RE: Vargr fashions<BR>
uniforms after discharge<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 07:43:00 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
>Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
>>Thirdly... as a female.... I don't want to be too crude here... but there<BR>
>>are valid reasons for at least a loincloth and most cultures do at least<BR>
>>wear some kind of skirt/briefs.  To put it bluntly, I don't want to sit on<BR>
>>a chair that another woman has been sitting in not wearing any panties.<BR>
>>ESPECIALLY not 3-7 days out of every 28 or so, but really not at any time.<BR>
>>And most men aren't too comfortable letting their dangly bits just dangle.<BR>
><BR>
>IIRC, Heinlein often had families on board spacecraft (where they could set<BR>
>the temperature to whatever they wanted) wearing nothing at all.  I confess<BR>
>to being intrigued as to the practicality of this as a teenager!<BR>
<BR>
I just thought of something, in re-reading Kiri's comments above...<BR>
one thing that a nudist/naturist always has with him/her is also something<BR>
that a seasoned space traveller is never without -- a towel! And tc's<BR>
reply mentioning Heinlein just proved that there is, in fact, a connection<BR>
between the two.<BR>
<BR>
(Notes:	<BR>
	1. The towel in SF if from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.<BR>
	2. Nudists/naturists use their towels to sit on.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 20:46:34 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
>I play Magic.  even played Pokemon with my half-siblings-in-law.  They're<BR>
>both fun games.<BR>
<BR>
I never got into Magic, but the Pokemon CCG is pretty fun. Although I do<BR>
wish that WotC would do what SJG did, and make a 'factory set' of all cards<BR>
available.<BR>
<BR>
(Which bears on relevance to Traveller, but is more civilized than much of<BR>
the commentary on this thread.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:53:40 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Traveller Conversion (was: GURPS vs. T5?)<BR>
<BR>
>>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
>> I just buy the GT stuff for reference until T5<BR>
>>comes out. I still think SJ is one of the good guys...BTW; did you guys get<BR>
><BR>
>  GT as proto-T5 supplements - hey, me too! I figure that as the CT/MT/T4<BR>
>rules were all acceptable to me, then so should T5, and I know enough of<BR>
>GURPS to convert stuff.<BR>
><BR>
>  Hey, BITS better have a crack team of analysts ready to provide rules<BR>
>conversion support of their products for when T5 comes out!<BR>
<BR>
Uh, Comrade Steve, conversions are definately part of _your_ job.  The<BR>
Party supported amalgamating the Ministry of Re-education with the Ministry<BR>
of Insecurity at the last meeting of the Collective. Didn't you take notes?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Comrade Prior<BR>
Third Assistant Minister for Superfluous Redundancy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:59:16 -0400<BR>
From: Les_Howie@keane.com<BR>
Subject: Would like to get hold of a FF&S2 (for T4)<BR>
<BR>
Is anyone  interested in parting with one?  Please let me know off-list<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:19:08 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Way OT, not even relevant to GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Way off topic stop reading now to ignore Magic and Pokeyman.<BR>
<BR>
I'm getting out of Magic while my daughter is getting into pokeyman.  I'll<BR>
trade my Magic cards for people's Pokeyman cards.  please reply to<BR>
ehenry@newberlin.org<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>I play Magic.  even played Pokemon with my half-siblings-in-law.  They're<BR>
>>both fun games.<BR>
><BR>
>I never got into Magic, but the Pokemon CCG is pretty fun. Although I do<BR>
>wish that WotC would do what SJG did, and make a 'factory set' of all cards<BR>
>available.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:36:41 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Threats to kill<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> * Sorry, Kenji. Couldn't resist that. What is it that you're claiming to be<BR>
> today?<BR>
<BR>
Strephon.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 09:33:10 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: re:  No Rimward Expansion?<BR>
<BR>
At 02:37 06.01.00 , you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Vague, half-garbled whispers from old Scouts and their<BR>
>time-beaten logs have implied that the minions of That Which<BR>
>Must Not Be Named frolic there in the frozen wastes of deep<BR>
>space, and hint that they should not be led back to Terra or the<BR>
>space known to and inhabited by sophonts who live ordinary lives<BR>
>and die, each in their proper time.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Exactly, rumors have it that the race rimward of the Solomani is called the <BR>
CLIF...<BR>
So better be careful lest the take notice and Invade Solomani X-Boat routes <BR>
again ;-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:00:12 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> As for the towel carrying, is this where Douglas Adams got his idea for the<BR>
> "towel" being the most important item in a Hitchhiker's bag of tricks?<BR>
> (hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)<BR>
<BR>
As I'm sure "Peter" "New Man" and Chris "Seamans" will rush to point out,<BR>
this is yet more spoor of the homo-science-fiction cabal stalking the<BR>
young men of the English-speaking world.  Trick towels and hitchhiking!<BR>
How blatant can they get?<BR>
<BR>
Dismayed,<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:01:33 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: No Rimward Expansion?<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Josh W.<BR>
> Spencer<BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, 5 January 2000 4:48 PM<BR>
> To: Traveller Mailing List<BR>
> Subject: No Rimward Expansion?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> A General Traveller question, if I May.....<BR>
><BR>
> Did Terra ever expand further rimward of Aldebaran, Canopus and Neworld<BR>
> sectors? Or did they run into the actual Rim? Or is there<BR>
> "something" there<BR>
> that they don't want to run into again?<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Sincerely,<BR>
> Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
> Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
><BR>
Well there are those pesky twelve colonies to rimward and their little<BR>
problem, Cylons I think they call them.<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:01:35 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Irony<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, 5 January 2000 6:41 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@mpgn.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Irony<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
><BR>
> Jason said:<BR>
> >Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
> >> The word you are looking for is "irony".  Some people on the TML might<BR>
> >> like to know that it dosen't usually mean "made out of iron".<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Oh yeah?  Then "stony" must not mean "made out of stone."<BR>
> >If so, then what are those asteroids made out of?<BR>
><BR>
> Iron?<BR>
><BR>
> ;-)<BR>
><BR>
> Well there are three main types of asteroids, with one type grading into<BR>
another. There are noooo. I can't do this, Ahhhh!<BR>
<BR>
The birth of Carbonaceous Chondrite man!<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 08:03:38 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 1/3/00 9:26 PM, cybernaut@netzero.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, in the TV series, the Cylons were described as a<BR>
> lizard-like race.  Who created the robots, who were not true<BR>
> Cylons.<BR>
<BR>
Interesting, I missed that. Probably rolling on the floor laughing. Not that<BR>
I didn't like the show, I think it is great. But very funny at times. Would<BR>
you know what episode? Is that the race of Big Purple Head, or were they<BR>
never seen or what?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 07:23:46 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
[I will discuss only shipboard fashions in this post.]<BR>
<BR>
" Temperature: The interior of a normal ship is about<BR>
25 degrees C [77 F]." - CT Sup. 7 Traders & Gunboats <BR>
p. 7.<BR>
<BR>
Given this bit of canon we need top ask what kind<BR>
of clothes most people tend to wear when it is this<BR>
temperature? I have usually assumed long sleeved<BR>
pants and short sleeved shirts usually of fairly light<BR>
material are the standard but that some crew shorts<BR>
& some prefer long pants & long sleeved shirts. I also<BR>
assume that most ship crew who are not wearing a skin<BR>
suit vacc suit as their clothing tend to wear clothing <BR>
that is fairly tight to make it easier to don a space suit<BR>
if/when it becomes necessary. Overalls and a t shirt may<BR>
be worn on some of the more casual ships.<BR>
<BR>
Some may prefer kilts/skirts to pants but (unless tight)<BR>
skirts/kilts have a greater chance of getting caught on <BR>
something. Short sleeved coveralls are also a <BR>
possibility but I know that many people, myself<BR>
included find that pants & a shirt fit better than one<BR>
piece coveralls so I suspect that coveralls are less<BR>
common. The notion that "one size fits most" may work<BR>
with shirts but sure does not work with jumpsuits.<BR>
<BR>
I assumed that most (non free traders) merchant<BR>
lines tend to have uniforms which somewhat<BR>
resemble those seen on cruise ships (see The<BR>
Love Boat TV show for an example), in colors<BR>
varying by lines.<BR>
  <BR>
I assume Engineers and Maintenance personnel, who<BR>
tend to get dirtier than other ships crew are<BR>
likely to wear coveralls but I envision something<BR>
more like what house painters wear than to a pair<BR>
of coveralls<BR>
<BR>
I also tend to assume that furred crew (Vargr & Aslan,<BR>
etc.) will wear less clothing, especially on the<BR>
upper half of their bodies if they can get away with <BR>
it if they are on a human 25 degrees C ship and that <BR>
their own ships are kept cooler, probably about<BR>
15 C [59 F].<BR>
<BR>
The above comments focused primarily on civilian spacers.<BR>
In the military, of course, ships personnel will usually<BR>
wear whatever regulations require, such regulations<BR>
may or may not make sense.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:24:47 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: OT:  Implications =)<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >> >> OK, whose turn is it to sedate Kenji?<BR>
> >> >> <BR>
> >> > Me me me ME!!!  Can I do it?  PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE?  I've been good!<BR>
> >> <BR>
> >> Oh all right, Kiri. But please remember to mop up the hydrotherapy<BR>
> >> suite after the two of you are done with it. <BR>
> ><BR>
> > What, no electroshock???  We're slipping to new lows here, kids...<BR>
> <BR>
> I didn't say anything one way or the other about *that*. I merely noted<BR>
> a tendency to not clean up properly in one area. Whether that means<BR>
> they don't *use* the other areas, or are merely less "messy" in them is<BR>
> not for me to say. <BR>
> <BR>
This would imply that you have observed me and Kenji in action before.  I<BR>
would like to know where, and I'm sure he would too, since *I* don't<BR>
remember it...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:48:54 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
> > You mean someone's gotta get close enough to ManicKenji(TM) to force a<BR>
> > needle in him? Or worse, make him swallow momma's little yellow<BR>
helper??? ;)<BR>
> ><BR>
> You guys just aren't being creative enough.  I could think of a couple of<BR>
> ways to do that.  =)<BR>
><BR>
> Kiri<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, just the "sweet young thing" I was thinking of.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:39:23 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: US 1st Amendment...<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> >> However, other than the "equal [air] time" doctrine that has been<BR>
> >> applied to broadcast editorial comment from the broadcast station's<BR>
> >> ownership or management, there is _no_ right to a public forum for one's<BR>
> >> opinions, at someone else's expense.  Thus, I can write a letter to my<BR>
> >> local newspaper, but the paper is under no obligation to print it.  If I<BR>
> >> want to ensure that my views are widely disseminated, I can always start<BR>
> >> my own newspaper.<BR>
<BR>
I run several message boards and mailing lists that are considered<BR>
remarkably civil, especially the one dealing with extramarital affairs, a<BR>
hot topic to say the least.  The reason for their civility is that I am a<BR>
benevolent dictator.  If ANYONE had ever posted to any of them anything<BR>
about wanting to see the blood of members of Group X on the floor, the<BR>
post would be removed and the poster suspended.  If there had actually<BR>
been any members of Group X on the board and this had been common<BR>
knowledge, they would be banned permanently, perhaps even IP blocked.<BR>
<BR>
I am under no obligation to allow other people to use my space to bother<BR>
other people who are enjoying themselves peaceably.  I do not permit<BR>
people to get on my message boards and flame other users any more than I<BR>
would permit one guest in my house to start slapping another.  Dissent and<BR>
discussion are encouraged but verbal abuse is not permitted.<BR>
<BR>
Several people have complained that they are being censored-- that I am<BR>
even breaking the law-- but I have explained to them the difference<BR>
between private and public space.  You can say whatever you want, provided<BR>
that it is not libelous or slanderous, on USENET or the public street.<BR>
But not in my house, and not in The Foxes' Teahouse (my most infamous<BR>
message board).<BR>
 <BR>
> The "equal time" rule was an FCC regulation, and they dropped it<BR>
> *years* ago rather than face a legal challenge that might have severely<BR>
> restricted their ability to regulate content.<BR>
<BR>
That also refers to political speech.<BR>
<BR>
> No. What most folks don't understand is that while you have the freedom<BR>
> to say damn near anything, you are responsible for the *consequences*.<BR>
> Thus, you can be sued for libel or slander without the First Amendment<BR>
> being an issue.<BR>
<BR>
That's because the First Amendment does not protect lying.  It may protect<BR>
expressions of opinion but to my knowledge you cannot be sued for libel or<BR>
slander for saying something true.  Of course, I'm not a lawyer.<BR>
<BR>
> > And is it against the law there to threaten someone? <BR>
<BR>
Whether or not it's against the law, if I catch you doing it on one of my<BR>
lists or boards, you're banned and I report you to your ISP.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:45:16 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Implications =)<BR>
<BR>
If people have digital blackmail pictures i'm sure something could be<BR>
cobbled together :)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
>><BR>
>This would imply that you have observed me and Kenji in action before.  I<BR>
>would like to know where, and I'm sure he would too, since *I* don't<BR>
>remember it...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 08:54:52 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
<BR>
>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
>Subject: Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
...<BR>
>(Which reminds me to ask - does anyone have or know of a good description<BR>
of just<BR>
>how information was encoded on the quipu knotted strings I've heard so much<BR>
about?)<BR>
<BR>
  If you mean "can we read them", the answer was a definitive no as late as<BR>
18 months ago; the last organization to use them was perhaps the Inca hold-<BR>
outs in southern Chile, so about 1550 or so?<BR>
<BR>
  Apparently the patterns indicated info, although I don't know if we're sure<BR>
whether the records themselves indicated the type of data they stored, or if<BR>
that was dependent on externals (like what pigeon-hole it was stored in).<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 09:02:01 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Media Stereotypes and SF/F Art<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 1/4/00 5:03 AM, rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> What's not that common - liking buff and/or plump women, or seeing<BR>
> them? Personally I find the current fashion of skinny women with big<BR>
> tits less than atttractive. I always find myself wondering what use<BR>
> such women have aside from making fashion houses heps of cash.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, it's like you're reading my mind and picking up where I left off. I<BR>
guess I was unclear. I find myself attracted to "everyday" women (with a<BR>
preference for heath/build, and, uh, ruebenesque.) and find that what media<BR>
touts as sexy/glamourous/attractive seems to me a tad<BR>
synthetic/silly/unappealling. Not that there isn't a model or two I think is<BR>
hot, but classic beaties on my list would be ladies like Katherine Hepburn,<BR>
Sigourny Weaver, Christen Jonston (sp? 3rd Rock), or Raquel Welch. Not Pam<BR>
Anderson, or Kate Moss, or such. And I like variety *all* the time, where<BR>
what is "in" seem to focus on singular aspects of beauty for as long as the<BR>
consumers are paying attention and buying. Hey, I'm supposed to be a happy<BR>
Chirping elf, and now I'm sounding all cynical. Pbbbttt! There have been<BR>
bright points, and that's nice.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:04:01 EST<BR>
From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1684<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/6/00 9:47:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< I'm really not offended by anything but hate crimes, abuse and the like. >><BR>
<BR>
I'm pretty much offended by violent crime, hate or not. At the law school <BR>
criminal law class was filled with the libs sharing why hate crimes were so <BR>
much worse and needed more punishment...my pointing out that getting killed <BR>
maimed robbed or raped sucked no matter what the reason you got chosen was. <BR>
<BR>
I also tried to compare the Sheppard murder to the girl in South Carolina who <BR>
was also tortured and killed [for non-US members of the list, only straight <BR>
whites are capable of hate crimes in most instances] I pointed out that the <BR>
libs demanded that the murderer on active duty not be subject to the UCMJ, as <BR>
he would have most likely got the big award from them, and rather be tried by <BR>
a local SC jury...most of my idiot classmates thought that was fair, and only <BR>
the killers of St Matthew the Kind deserved the DP, in fact that is about the <BR>
only case ever that they think ever deserves the DP.<BR>
<BR>
Trav: PCs arrive on an Amber-for-internal-politics planet, and are scanned <BR>
and issued cards when leaving the Starport zone. As they look around at <BR>
someone with a higher class number on their card they are given a ticket for <BR>
inappropriate staring hate crime [an actual hate crime here at the <BR>
University, an offense against the free speech code]. They then have their <BR>
bag snatched by someone with a higher number, and the police refuse to act, <BR>
as the other deserved the bag in recompense for X years of oppression.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:11:17 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: fashions (long)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
>The Imperium (and it's predecessors) has been in space for a long<BR>
>time.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>I suspect they'll have solved problems like loose hairs, pencil<BR>
>shavings, and vaccsuit seals by then. I suspect, in fact, that<BR>
>they'll have forgotten it was even a problem, ever.<BR>
>Hair fashion will be dictated by exactly that: fashion. Only<BR>
>rarely has it been dictated by function, if ever.<BR>
<BR>
	The length of time that humaniti has been starfaring is<BR>
	certainly going to count, but there may still be some<BR>
	constraints that have not been surmounted because either<BR>
	they are too expensive or too inefficient to surmount.<BR>
<BR>
	As for fashion being dictated by function, I would suggest<BR>
	that function often influences fashion, even though it may<BR>
	not always be obvious.  The fashion of clipping poodles<BR>
	apparently started with helping the poodles to avoid<BR>
	tangles when retrieving in swampy terrain (I have no source<BR>
	for this, anyone know more about it?).  Most people would<BR>
	not think of a poodle as a working dog, nor of it's clipping<BR>
	as functional.<BR>
<BR>
	If you will forgive me the length, I include the following<BR>
	story about how certain standards can carry on long after<BR>
	the functionality dies:<BR>
<BR>
The US Standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4<BR>
feet, 8 1/2 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number.<BR>
<BR>
Why was that gauge used?<BR>
<BR>
Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US<BR>
railroads were built by English expatriates.<BR>
<BR>
Why did the English build them like that?<BR>
<BR>
Because the first railway lines were built by the same people who<BR>
built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.<BR>
<BR>
Why did they use that gauge in England, then?<BR>
<BR>
Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and<BR>
tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel<BR>
spacing.<BR>
<BR>
Okay!<BR>
<BR>
Why did their wagons use that odd wheel spacing?<BR>
<BR>
Because, if they tried to use any other spacing the wagon wheels<BR>
would break on some of the old, long distance roads.  Because<BR>
that's the spacing of the old wheel ruts.<BR>
<BR>
So who built these oldrutted roads?<BR>
<BR>
The first long distance roads in Europe were built by Imperial<BR>
Rome for the benefit of their legions. The Roman roads  have been<BR>
used ever since.<BR>
<BR>
And the ruts?<BR>
<BR>
The original ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of<BR>
destroying their wagons, were first made by the wheels of Roman<BR>
war chariots. Since the chariots were made for or by Imperial Rome<BR>
they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing.<BR>
<BR>
Thus, we have the answer to the original question. The United States<BR>
standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8 1/2 inches derives from the<BR>
original specification for an Imperial Roman army war chariot.<BR>
<BR>
Specifications and bureaucracies live forever.<BR>
<BR>
So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what<BR>
horse's Ass came up with it, you may be exactly right.<BR>
<BR>
Because the Imperial Roman chariots were made to be just wide<BR>
enough to accommodate the back-ends of two war-horses.<BR>
<BR>
Plus, there's an interesting extension of the story about railroad<BR>
gauge and horses' behinds. When we see a Space Shuttle sitting on<BR>
the launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the<BR>
sides of the main fuel tank. These are the solid rocket boosters,<BR>
or SRBs.<BR>
<BR>
The SRBs are made by Thiokol at a factory in Utah. The engineers<BR>
who designed the SRBs might have preferred to make them a bit<BR>
fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory<BR>
to the launch site.<BR>
<BR>
The railroad from the factory runs through a tunnel in the<BR>
mountains. The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is<BR>
slightly wider than a railroad track, and the railroad track is<BR>
about as wide as two horses' behinds.<BR>
<BR>
So a major design feature of what is arguably the world's most<BR>
advanced transportation system was originally determined by the<BR>
width of a horse's ass.<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:13:14 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
Jory Earl writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>I do feel however, that clothes are abused sometimes in that they<BR>
>are used to intimidate people or flaunt one's financial superiority.<BR>
>I would think in a society as advanced as the 3rd Imperium that<BR>
>people would largely be over these things.<BR>
<BR>
	As we haven't managed to outgrow this over the past few<BR>
	thousand years, I'm not sure that we will in the next few<BR>
	thousand.  Still, you never know.<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:35:51 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: uniforms after discharge<BR>
<BR>
Someone asked:<BR>
<BR>
>2.Would ex-military be allowed to wear their dress uniforms?<BR>
>Currently, I don't think they can, but in the nobility laden<BR>
>OTU?<BR>
<BR>
In my Traveller universe, veterans (whether noble or common) of<BR>
the four uniformed Imperial services who have received a<BR>
discharge other than dishonorable may wear the full dress<BR>
uniform of their service for the rest of their lives, but they<BR>
are required to wear a white diamond-shaped insignia on their<BR>
right breast that indicates that they have been discharged from<BR>
service.  The Scouts' insignia is a pin, of course, which can be<BR>
removed if the scout is re-attached to the service.  (You never<BR>
get discharged from the Scouts; you just get detached duty.)  <BR>
<BR>
Nobles may wear certain insignia related to their noble rank on<BR>
their Imperial uniforms in accordance with service regulations. <BR>
For example, a shield bearing the noble's family's arms with a<BR>
noble rank insignia may be worn on the right jacket pocket.  <BR>
<BR>
Anyone can wear fatigue or utility uniforms.  Only currently<BR>
serving personnel may wear such uniforms with Imperial insignia.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:36:29 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
From: Jim & Peta Lawrie <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>     I agree with Nearly everything you say except I think its foolish to<BR>
> apply these standards to a culture that spans a couple of thousand<BR>
> planets. Australian skinheads may not of understood your local<BR>
> skinhead social signals and that's just on one planet.<BR>
<BR>
The point isn't "apply Skinhead boot signals across the Imperium" but that<BR>
to within a group minor variations can mean a lot. I just picked an example<BR>
that I was familiar with.<BR>
<BR>
> Dominant cultures will subdue less vigourous cultures though, the<BR>
> American Stetson is steadily replaing more standard hat styles in<BR>
> rural Australia but when a dominant culture does swamp another,<BR>
> these "insider" signals lose their meaning.<BR>
<BR>
...or they're sometimes replaced by others.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1685<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 6 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1686<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
Re: Threats to kill<BR>
Re: Re Pogroms<BR>
Re: Hair<BR>
Re: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
Re: fashions (long)<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
RE: Cylons<BR>
Re: Threats to kill <BR>
Rat dogs!<BR>
Death penalty stuff<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: Terrorism Threats<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
Re: Rat dogs! <BR>
Re: OT: Implications =) <BR>
Re: Threats to kill<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: Rat dogs! <BR>
Short stuff<BR>
RE: Rat dogs!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:42:40 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I don't think I could ever do this.  I have major issues about myself that I<BR>
> may never get over so I'd never feel comfortable being nude with a bunch of<BR>
> people. <BR>
<BR>
Try hot tubbing with friends if you ever get the chance, then branch out.<BR>
I wouldn't take my clothes off in public, either.<BR>
<BR>
> I do feel however, that clothes are abused sometimes in that they are<BR>
> used to intimidate people or flaunt one's financial superiority.<BR>
<BR>
I think it's a side effect of the use of clothes as a statement of<BR>
identity.  When we're allowed to choose what we wear, we make choices that<BR>
express some part of ourselves.  Almost any tool, even a tool for<BR>
self-expression, can be used as a weapon.<BR>
<BR>
> I would think in a society as advanced as the 3rd Imperium that people<BR>
> would largely be over these things.<BR>
<BR>
I wouldn't confuse technological advancement with social advancement.  The<BR>
3I is a feudal society and is likely prone to the same social ills that<BR>
other feudal societies are susceptible to.  We probably couldn't roleplay<BR>
a truly socially advanced culture.  We can't even really imagine it.  Most<BR>
utopias are frightening when viewed by anyone other than their creators.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:49:34 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
<BR>
>On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
>> Kenji, inventor of the Sayat pelvic-mounted vibrating plasma<BR>
>> gun? I'd say he's not someone noted for modesty.<BR>
>Hey, hey!  That's SLANDER, buddy!  It doesn't vibrate!  Not if <BR>
>you're maintaining it right.  Sure, it tends to set your <BR>
>clothes on fire and burn your hands when you aim it, and the <BR>
>older models made burglar alarms nearby go off and interefered <BR>
>with pacemakers, but it doesn't_vibrate_.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, I thought the marketing material indicated that it<BR>
vibrated; maybe that was another Sayat product.<BR>
<BR>
>My only lack of modesty involving the PMPP was getting the<BR>
>boxer who lived upstairs from me to simulate the recoil that <BR>
>would be involved.<BR>
<BR>
I'm forming a picture.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:59:38 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)Subject: <BR>
<BR>
>Also, we really don't have a *good* solution for suits that can<BR>
>be worn more than a few hours. Waste handling is a *real* <BR>
>problem. Urine is "easy" to handle for men, and a bit of a pain<BR>
<BR>
>for women. Feces are the big problem. <BR>
>For those who aren't aware of *how* the problem is handled, <BR>
>even now, let me merely note that "disposable diapers" are a <BR>
>spin-off technology from NASA. So are the pre-moistened, <BR>
>disposable cleanup wipes.<BR>
<BR>
That sort of takes the romance out of dreaming of a career as an<BR>
astronaut.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 09:37:08<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
At 08:46 PM 1/5/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>>I play Magic.  even played Pokemon with my half-siblings-in-law.  They're<BR>
>>both fun games.<BR>
><BR>
>I never got into Magic, but the Pokemon CCG is pretty fun. Although I do<BR>
>wish that WotC would do what SJG did, and make a 'factory set' of all cards<BR>
>available.<BR>
<BR>
For Hannukah, we gave Kirsten's half-siblings (10 and 6) a starter set<BR>
each.  Each night afterwards, they got a booster pack.  I've played it with<BR>
them a few times.  The game is a great amount of fun, and encourages<BR>
roleplaying!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 09:34:58<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
At 07:23 AM 1/6/2000 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Given this bit of canon we need top ask what kind<BR>
>of clothes most people tend to wear when it is this<BR>
>temperature?<BR>
<BR>
When I was visualizing Arameth Gridlore (who spent most of his time in<BR>
space), I pictured him wearing loose, pajama style pants, and a dashiki<BR>
type of shirt.  The materials would be silk or a similar synthetic, so that<BR>
if he had to dive into a vacc suit, chafing would be a problem.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>
limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 09:39:23<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
At 07:33 AM 1/6/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Word has it that when JFK made his linguistic blunder, there was some<BR>
>tittering in the crowd, but the Germans were too polite to actually<BR>
>break into laughter -- they knew what he was trying to say...<BR>
<BR>
My roommate has that on tape.  He does say "ein".  Watch Willie Brandt<BR>
(behind Kennedy to his left) He stops applauding for just a second, and<BR>
gets this really odd look on his face...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 09:40:40<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
At 10:54 PM 1/5/2000 PST, Leonard wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> What if you're _into_ water sports?<BR>
><BR>
>Still doesn't mean you can non-consensually involve everyone else on<BR>
>the floor.<BR>
<BR>
4.0!!!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 09:50:01<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Threats to kill<BR>
<BR>
At 10:36 AM 1/6/2000 -0500, Strephon wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> * Sorry, Kenji. Couldn't resist that. What is it that you're claiming to <BR>
>> be today?<BR>
><BR>
>Strephon.<BR>
<BR>
Real, Robotic, or Clone?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>
limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:30:04 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Pogroms<BR>
<BR>
>My understanding of the term "Pogrom" is a politically expedient program of<BR>
>"dissapearances" of political enemies on a large scale. However, I've never<BR>
>looked it up.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I haven't studied Russian History (or indeed any other history) for years<BR>
now, but my teacher used the term to apply specifically to attacks (of the<BR>
village-torching variety) on Jewish communities in Czarist Russia. These<BR>
were generally carried out by the people, the government's involvement<BR>
limited to alienating the Jews and legitimising the attacks, rather than<BR>
actually carrying them out.<BR>
<BR>
This may, of course, be totally wrong. I was never good at history.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:45:00 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Hair<BR>
<BR>
>Oh no I just had a horrible picture of a Dragon Lance Kender in<BR>
>space, in battledress complete with sling staffs, scary. I think I'll go<BR>
and<BR>
>lie down and try and forget about it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
You know staff slings have been trialed by certain militaries for use with<BR>
grenades?<BR>
<BR>
Be afraid....the kender are coming.....<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:07:29 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
<BR>
>Come on, Nick, everyone likes when gearishness happens!  This is the TML!<BR>
>(And if it's a _special_ sort of design, well, you never know when Famille<BR>
>Spofulam recruiters will come knocking on your door!)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<shudder> I've been hiding from FamSpof's Recruiting Department* for four<BR>
years now.  Moving house every couple of months, carefully screening my<BR>
designs, only allowing the sensible ones out....<BR>
<BR>
But I can't transmit much longer. They're coming - I can hear the pogo<BR>
sticks in the distance.....<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
*Mainly because we differ in our interpretation of 'headhunting'...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:13:23 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions (long)<BR>
<BR>
>So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what<BR>
>horse's Ass came up with it, you may be exactly right.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hey, guys, I just got this incredible sense of deja vu...<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
+++<BR>
(Must be a glitch in the Matrix.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:14:02 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Jim & Peta Lawrie <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >     I agree with Nearly everything you say except I think its foolish to<BR>
> > apply these standards to a culture that spans a couple of thousand<BR>
> > planets. Australian skinheads may not of understood your local<BR>
> > skinhead social signals and that's just on one planet.<BR>
> <BR>
> The point isn't "apply Skinhead boot signals across the Imperium" but that<BR>
> to within a group minor variations can mean a lot. I just picked an example<BR>
> that I was familiar with.<BR>
> <BR>
Hanky codes are another good one.  Many g/l/b/t and kink folks used to use<BR>
different bandana colors to indicate what sexual practices they favored,<BR>
but these were by no means standard from locality to locality.<BR>
<BR>
> > these "insider" signals lose their meaning.<BR>
> ...or they're sometimes replaced by others.<BR>
> <BR>
Red ties anybody?<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:30:11 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Cylons<BR>
<BR>
Benyamene Akella writes:<BR>
>>Actually, in the TV series, the Cylons were described as a<BR>
>>lizard-like race.  Who created the robots, who were not true<BR>
>>Cylons.<BR>
>Interesting, I missed that. Probably rolling on the floor laughing.<BR>
>Not that I didn't like the show, I think it is great. But very<BR>
>funny at times. Would you know what episode? Is that the race of<BR>
>Big Purple Head, or were they never seen or what?<BR>
<BR>
	The actual Cylons were rarely seen.  I only saw them in<BR>
	poorly-lighted conditions, but I seem to remember that they<BR>
	looked like basic reptilian humanoids.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 11:33:58 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Threats to kill <BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > * Sorry, Kenji. Couldn't resist that. What is it that you're claiming to be<BR>
> > today?<BR>
> <BR>
> Strephon.<BR>
<BR>
What you gonna do about the bullet holes?<BR>
<BR>
And while you're at it, stop all this cloning around already...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:39:00 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Rat dogs!<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Be afraid....the kender are coming.....<BR>
> <BR>
Kender are like sentient chihuahuas.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav-- someone asked why Vargr are always visualized as wolves and not<BR>
other types of dogs.<BR>
<BR>
I think the logical answer involves the prehistoric date at which the<BR>
canids were taken from earth and the fact that Vargr weren't selectively<BR>
bred for some of the silly traits various dog breeds display, they were<BR>
instead mass-uplifted.  Wolflike beings are to be expected given what they<BR>
had to work with and the lack of selective breeding.<BR>
<BR>
But come on, do you really want various DOG BREEDS represented amongst the<BR>
Vargr?  Some shepherds and huskies might be cool but I personally do not<BR>
even want to contemplate Poodle-Vargr, let alone Chihuahua Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:53:14 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Death penalty stuff<BR>
<BR>
>From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1684<BR>
<BR>
>I'm pretty much offended by violent crime, hate or not. <BR>
<BR>
You briefly raised the death penalty issue.  In my Traveller<BR>
universe at least, there are worlds where the death penalty is<BR>
only imposed for conviction for very large financial crimes.  <BR>
<BR>
Punishment of criminals ordinarily accomplishes one or more of<BR>
the following goals:  incapacitation; rehabilitation;<BR>
deterrence; and retribution.  Many studies have shown that the<BR>
death penalty has no deterrence effect on violent crime, and it<BR>
obviously has no rehabilitative possibilities.  It is effective<BR>
retribution on the part of the society, and it does incapacitate<BR>
the criminal so that he or she cannot commit more crimes.<BR>
<BR>
Some worlds have concluded that only the most intelligent and<BR>
well educated citizens will respond to governmentally imposed<BR>
deterrence and incentive programs.  The criminals who commit<BR>
large-scale financial crimes are invariably intelligent and well<BR>
educated; only such persons have the qualifications to get into<BR>
positions where they can commit such crimes and only such<BR>
persons have the mental ability to envision and execute crimes<BR>
of this nature.<BR>
<BR>
These worlds have concluded that the death penalty can be an<BR>
effective deterrent to large scale financial crimes, because the<BR>
intelligent and well educated part of the community will<BR>
actually weigh the risks against the rewards.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:57:35 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:13:41 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>For those who aren't aware of *how* the problem is handled, even now,<BR>
>let me merely note that "disposable diapers" are a spin-off technology<BR>
>from NASA. So are the pre-moistened, disposable cleanup wipes.<BR>
<BR>
Wow, and here I've always thought those towelettes were a spin-off of<BR>
the fried chicken industry! I guess the military-kentucky-<BR>
industrial-entertainment complex isn't as powerful as Oliver Stone<BR>
would have us believe. ;-P<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys,  all on different levels. The <BR>
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys <BR>
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."<BR>
                                     - Unknown (If you know, tell me.)<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:06:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
- --- Jory Earl <j-man@iname.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> some different likes.  To me, hating homosexuals makes about as <BR>
> much sense as hating people who put bananas on their peanut <BR>
> butter sandwiches in lieu of using jelly.<BR>
<BR>
Well, now you went and did it. I was just fine up until that <BR>
last bit. The peanut butter and banana business did me in. <BR>
Go ahead and see if you can goad me into making threats by <BR>
telling me they are fried. <g><BR>
<BR>
Terry<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 19:06:32 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 06 Jan 2000 08:03:38 -0800, "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"<BR>
<xrp@sierratel.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Via electronic medium on 1/3/00 9:26 PM, cybernaut@netzero.net wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Actually, in the TV series, the Cylons were described as a<BR>
>> lizard-like race.  Who created the robots, who were not true<BR>
>> Cylons.<BR>
><BR>
>Interesting, I missed that. Probably rolling on the floor laughing. Not that<BR>
>I didn't like the show, I think it is great. But very funny at times. Would<BR>
>you know what episode? Is that the race of Big Purple Head, or were they<BR>
>never seen or what?<BR>
><BR>
They were never seen. In the show someone said the robots killed off<BR>
the original Cylons and kept the name. Apparently there was a<BR>
programming error. Sounds like they should have adopted the Three Laws<BR>
of Robotics.<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys,  all on different levels. The <BR>
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys <BR>
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."<BR>
                                     - Unknown (If you know, tell me.)<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:03:17 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Rat dogs! <BR>
<BR>
> But come on, do you really want various DOG BREEDS represented amongst the<BR>
> Vargr?  Some shepherds and huskies might be cool but I personally do not<BR>
> even want to contemplate Poodle-Vargr, let alone Chihuahua Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
That *could* explain where those Taco Hell commercials came from...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:05:44 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Implications =) <BR>
<BR>
> > >> Oh all right, Kiri. But please remember to mop up the hydrotherapy<BR>
> > >> suite after the two of you are done with it. <BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > What, no electroshock???  We're slipping to new lows here, kids...<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I didn't say anything one way or the other about *that*. I merely noted<BR>
> > a tendency to not clean up properly in one area. Whether that means<BR>
> > they don't *use* the other areas, or are merely less "messy" in them is<BR>
> > not for me to say. <BR>
> > <BR>
> This would imply that you have observed me and Kenji in action before.  I<BR>
> would like to know where, and I'm sure he would too, since *I* don't<BR>
> remember it...<BR>
<BR>
Must have been those 3 bottles of Quervo.  But I've got it here *SOMEPLACE* on videotape...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:18:00 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Threats to kill<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > * Sorry, Kenji. Couldn't resist that. What is it that you're claiming to be<BR>
> > today?<BR>
> <BR>
> Strephon.<BR>
<BR>
The Real Strephon or one of his clones?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 11:12:51<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
At 10:14 AM 1/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Hanky codes are another good one.  Many g/l/b/t and kink folks used to use<BR>
>different bandana colors to indicate what sexual practices they favored,<BR>
>but these were by no means standard from locality to locality.<BR>
<BR>
I think we still have one of the guide cards around here somewhere.  Too<BR>
complex.  I prefer desperately shouting my interests at closing time.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:18:41 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Rat dogs! <BR>
<BR>
At 12:03 PM 1/6/00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>> But come on, do you really want various DOG BREEDS represented amongst the<BR>
>> Vargr?  Some shepherds and huskies might be cool but I personally do not<BR>
>> even want to contemplate Poodle-Vargr, let alone Chihuahua Vargr.<BR>
><BR>
>That *could* explain where those Taco Hell commercials came from...<BR>
><BR>
>Keven<BR>
><BR>
        "Heeere, Leezard, Leezard, Leezard....."<BR>
<BR>
        "Ooopps.  I Tink I am going to need a beeger baux...."<BR>
<BR>
        <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 19:19:07 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Short stuff<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:45:00 -0000, "Nick Bradbeer"<BR>
<nickb@ndirect.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Oh no I just had a horrible picture of a Dragon Lance Kender in<BR>
>>space, in battledress complete with sling staffs, scary. I think I'll go<BR>
>and<BR>
>>lie down and try and forget about it.<BR>
><BR>
>You know staff slings have been trialed by certain militaries for use with<BR>
>grenades?<BR>
><BR>
>Be afraid....the kender are coming.....<BR>
><BR>
Considering the huge variety of humaniti in the 3I it seems reasonable<BR>
to me that there would be at least one race that tended to be<BR>
jockey-sized. Has anyone fleshed out such a minor human race? (No pun<BR>
or insult intended)<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps one of Grandfather's kids wanted to save money on clothing and<BR>
equipment so he bred some humans to fit Droyne stuff.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys,  all on different levels. The <BR>
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys <BR>
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."<BR>
                                     - Unknown (If you know, tell me.)<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:22:00 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Rat dogs!<BR>
<BR>
On Thursday, January 06, 2000 10:39 AM<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>
<BR>
> But come on, do you really want various DOG BREEDS represented amongst<BR>
the<BR>
> Vargr?  Some shepherds and huskies might be cool but I personally do<BR>
not<BR>
> even want to contemplate Poodle-Vargr, let alone Chihuahua Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
I immediately pictured a tavern being entered by the crew of a Vargr<BR>
"trader" composed mainly of Shar-Pei Vargr and Mexican hairless<BR>
(XOLOITZQUINTLE) Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
Thing under the stairs,<BR>
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
==================================<BR>
"Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition."  -Timothy Leary<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1686<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 6 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1687<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: TRAVELLER in the Greensboro area<BR>
Re: Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
re:  nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: Rat dogs! <BR>
Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: Rat dogs!<BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
Re: OT:  Implications =)<BR>
Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: uniforms after discharge<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
GT: Imperial Navy Playtest Suspended<BR>
Re: Threats to kill<BR>
Re: Threats to kill<BR>
Re: Hyphen for Emperor!<BR>
It takes a Village (was Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!)<BR>
re: Photo PagePhoto Page<BR>
Re: BITS! Lovely BITS! Wonderful BITS!<BR>
Re: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:22:23 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:14 AM 1/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Hanky codes are another good one.  Many g/l/b/t and kink folks used to use<BR>
> >different bandana colors to indicate what sexual practices they favored,<BR>
> >but these were by no means standard from locality to locality.<BR>
> <BR>
> I think we still have one of the guide cards around here somewhere.  Too<BR>
> complex.  I prefer desperately shouting my interests at closing time.<BR>
> <BR>
The internet made them largely unnecessary.  Thanks to the internet, there<BR>
are places where you can write out exactly what you want, attach your<BR>
photo, and have people send you responses with pictures.<BR>
<BR>
Of course people with high standards, specific interests, and/or<BR>
body shapes deemed currently unfashionable have to wait longer to find<BR>
what they want.  But that's always been true.<BR>
<BR>
And the medium discriminates against those who don't write well.  (Though<BR>
I think broken English is cute... from those willing to tolerate my<BR>
fractured Japanese...)<BR>
<BR>
So how do people get together in the 3I?<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 19:24:02 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER in the Greensboro area<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:45:46 -0500, Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:33:00 -0500<BR>
>>From: "J. Mark Brooks" <jmbrooks@bigfoot.com><BR>
>>Subject: Available TRAVELLER games in the Greensboro, NC area<BR>
>><BR>
>>I'm looking for somebody with a campaign in the Greensboro NC area, or who<BR>
>>would be interested in participating in a campaign.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm in Fayetteville -- too far for a regular campaign, I'm afraid. If you<BR>
>get enough response for a quorum, though, please let me know. Perhaps I can<BR>
>drive up every few weeks for a guest appearance.<BR>
><BR>
Let me know if you're looking for a nice house to rent or buy in<BR>
Fayetteville. I was stationed there for six years and still own a<BR>
house there.<BR>
<BR>
Of course I may be going back after my return from South Korea.<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys,  all on different levels. The <BR>
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys <BR>
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."<BR>
                                     - Unknown (If you know, tell me.)<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 19:26:43 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:25:26 +0000, Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>IIRC, Heinlein often had families on board spacecraft (where they could set<BR>
>the temperature to whatever they wanted) wearing nothing at all.  I confess<BR>
>to being intrigued as to the practicality of this as a teenager!<BR>
><BR>
Is it just me or did RAH's later books get kind of weird. I sometimes<BR>
got the impression he was writing with one hand (if you get my drift.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys,  all on different levels. The <BR>
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys <BR>
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."<BR>
                                     - Unknown (If you know, tell me.)<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:22:29 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
<BR>
Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
> To me, hating homosexuals makes about as much sense as hating<BR>
> people who put bananas on their peanut butter sandwiches in<BR>
> lieu of using jelly.<BR>
<BR>
There's a fish & chip shop near Stilton (near a  friend's  place)<BR>
that sells Mars bars deep fried in cripy batter, does that count?<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:31:15 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> No offence, Chris, but I'm inclined to take the word of someone who<BR>
> was born and raised there, took university-level courses in it on the<BR>
> way to obtaining a teaching degree, then taught it in high school for<BR>
> several years... :)<BR>
<BR>
None taken! I've started tracking this one down, and I plan on hitting the<BR>
local library for Monatshefte, Issue #85 for a detailed debunking by a<BR>
native German speaker.<BR>
<BR>
> (Besides, my mom is from southern Germany.)<BR>
<BR>
This is what I was told by a German in Bergheim. Make of it what you will.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:35:06 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
On Thursday, January 06, 2000 9:43 AM<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>
<BR>
> I think it's a side effect of the use of clothes as a statement of<BR>
> identity.  When we're allowed to choose what we wear, we make choices<BR>
that<BR>
> express some part of ourselves.  Almost any tool, even a tool for<BR>
> self-expression, can be used as a weapon.<BR>
<BR>
That is part of the problem with the school uniform idea.  I work in a<BR>
school district and people are often advocating uniforms as a way to<BR>
reduce tensions etc between the kids that can afford the expensive<BR>
tennis shoes and the kids that can't.<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that people adapt to what they can wear.  If they need to<BR>
wear uniforms the wealthier kids will always have better fitting<BR>
uniforms and more of them so less wear and tear.  Also little things<BR>
like hair clips and pins get to be status items.<BR>
<BR>
I imagine that in the big 3I that tailoring and such is cheaply<BR>
available from automatic sources, but certain materials and hand<BR>
stitching would probably definitely mark the well dressed individual,<BR>
but what little accessories might belay status or fraternal ties.<BR>
<BR>
I've go a Carabineer hanging off my jacket that I clip my keys on to<BR>
when I get out of the car.  Various people that I have met have assumed<BR>
that it was a sign that I was into mountain climbing or B&D.<BR>
<BR>
What little trinket might a PC routinely carry that would draw the wrong<BR>
assumptions on some world?<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
Thing under the stairs,<BR>
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
==================================<BR>
"Little one, I would like to see anyone -- prophet, king or god --<BR>
persuade a thousand cats to do anything at the same time. "- A Dream of<BR>
a Thousand Cats, Neil Gaiman<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:38:02 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
>On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
>> I don't think I could ever do this.  I have major issues <BR>
>>about myself that I may never get over so I'd never feel <BR>
>>comfortable being nude with a bunch of people. <BR>
>Try hot tubbing with friends if you ever get the chance, then <BR>
>branch out. I wouldn't take my clothes off in public, either.<BR>
<BR>
I'll try to keep this off-topic story very short and hope it<BR>
amuses the list.<BR>
<BR>
I was visiting a male friend in Southern California many years<BR>
ago.  A woman whom we both knew invited him, me, and a male<BR>
friend of my friend to dinner at her home.  After dinner, she<BR>
suggested that we all retire to her outdoor hot tub for<BR>
after-dinner drinks.  My friend insisted that we all wear<BR>
bathing suits, as he was shy about his body.  None of the other<BR>
three wanted to wear bathing suits, as we were not shy.  We<BR>
suggested that he wear a suit, but we wouldn't, and he wasn't<BR>
comfortable with that.  I finally suggested that he wear a suit<BR>
and a blindfold.  That way all of his needs would be met:  we<BR>
wouldn't see him and he wouldn't see us.  The other two thought<BR>
that this was an excellent suggestion, but he wouldn't go for<BR>
it, so we all ended up in bathing suits.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:37:54 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Rat dogs! <BR>
<BR>
> On Thursday, January 06, 2000 10:39 AM<BR>
> Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>
> <BR>
> > But come on, do you really want various DOG BREEDS represented amongst<BR>
> the<BR>
> > Vargr?  Some shepherds and huskies might be cool but I personally do<BR>
> not<BR>
> > even want to contemplate Poodle-Vargr, let alone Chihuahua Vargr.<BR>
> <BR>
> I immediately pictured a tavern being entered by the crew of a Vargr<BR>
> "trader" composed mainly of Shar-Pei Vargr and Mexican hairless<BR>
> (XOLOITZQUINTLE) Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
That *still* doesn't explain that velvet painting of the Vargr sitting around playing poker.<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:46:35 -0700<BR>
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com><BR>
Subject: Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
Thing wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> What little trinket might a PC routinely carry that would draw the wrong<BR>
> assumptions on some world?<BR>
<BR>
Well, the PCs in my group carry guns ...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Erwin Fritz<BR>
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.<BR>
http://www.glja.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:47:21 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>I think we still have one of the guide cards around here <BR>
>somewhere. Too complex.  I prefer desperately shouting my <BR>
>interests at closing time.<BR>
<BR>
and by closing time, my interests have become a bit less<BR>
detailed: alive and apparently of the right sex might be enough.<BR>
 Actually, just the second item might be enough.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:53:42 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Rat dogs!<BR>
<BR>
"Keven R. Pittsinger" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > On Thursday, January 06, 2000 10:39 AM<BR>
> > Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > But come on, do you really want various DOG BREEDS represented amongst<BR>
> > the<BR>
> > > Vargr?  Some shepherds and huskies might be cool but I personally do<BR>
> > not<BR>
> > > even want to contemplate Poodle-Vargr, let alone Chihuahua Vargr.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I immediately pictured a tavern being entered by the crew of a Vargr<BR>
> > "trader" composed mainly of Shar-Pei Vargr and Mexican hairless<BR>
> > (XOLOITZQUINTLE) Vargr.<BR>
> <BR>
> That *still* doesn't explain that velvet painting of the Vargr sitting around playing poker.<BR>
<BR>
And is there any truth to the rumor that the Allied Powers in World War<BR>
I employed Vargr mercenary pilots?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 11:51:23 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
Glenn St-Germain wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >> By saying "Ich bin *ein* Berliner", he change the meaning of the<BR>
> >> sentence to "I am a jelly doughnut". Similarly, "Ich bin ein<BR>
> >> Frankfurter" would translate as "I am a sausage", not "I am from<BR>
> >> Frankfurt".<BR>
> ><BR>
> >From what I was told when I was in Germany, it depends on where you're from.<BR>
> >Folks from Southern Germany might well leave in the "ein", folks from<BR>
> >Northern Germany will probably not. Even then, it may vary from place to<BR>
> >place.<BR>
> <BR>
> No offence, Chris, but I'm inclined to take the word of someone who<BR>
> was born and raised there, took university-level courses in it on the<BR>
> way to obtaining a teaching degree, then taught it in high school for<BR>
> several years... :)<BR>
> <BR>
> (Besides, my mom is from southern Germany.)<BR>
> <BR>
> Word has it that when JFK made his linguistic blunder, there was some<BR>
> tittering in the crowd, but the Germans were too polite to actually<BR>
> break into laughter -- they knew what he was trying to say...<BR>
<BR>
The way I like to put it is that JFK's error was closely analogous <BR>
to a visitor to the US from Denmark saying "I am a Danish." Yes, <BR>
it's incorrect. Yes, it's funny. Yes, the speaker's intent is <BR>
understood.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell "Ich bin ein Bagel" B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:54:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: OT:  Implications =)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > I didn't say anything one way or the other about *that*. I merely noted<BR>
> > a tendency to not clean up properly in one area. Whether that means<BR>
> > they don't *use* the other areas, or are merely less "messy" in them is<BR>
> > not for me to say. <BR>
> > <BR>
> This would imply that you have observed me and Kenji in action before.  I<BR>
> would like to know where, and I'm sure he would too, since *I* don't<BR>
> remember it...<BR>
<BR>
I think Leonard may have been hinting that we don't clean up the _list_<BR>
when we're done playing with it.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:57:10 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr fashions<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Sorry, I thought the marketing material indicated that it<BR>
> vibrated; maybe that was another Sayat product.<BR>
<BR>
Probably the RoboReindeer.<BR>
<BR>
> >My only lack of modesty involving the PMPP was getting the<BR>
> >boxer who lived upstairs from me to simulate the recoil that <BR>
> >would be involved.<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm forming a picture.<BR>
<BR>
Hey, pal, that was _science_.  It gave a useful baseline for understanding<BR>
the effects of handgun and higher-powered firearm recoil as located close<BR>
to the center of gravity.  I'd have taken pictures, but I didn't have a<BR>
camera, and she was kind of weirded out about it anyway.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:58:39 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > > these "insider" signals lose their meaning.<BR>
> > ...or they're sometimes replaced by others.<BR>
> > <BR>
> Red ties anybody?<BR>
<BR>
Huh?  What sort of frickin' sicko PERVERT would want to make it with a<BR>
Harvard graduate?  <BR>
<BR>
You people!  I'm disgusted beyond words.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:06:16 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Imaginactra <russcm@shell.zoomnet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: uniforms after discharge<BR>
<BR>
In general, you may also want to note the current law level of the<BR>
location in question before wearing a military or para-military type<BR>
uniform if you are not in any way associated with the military.<BR>
Ex-Military may be allowed, but general civilians may end up arrested for<BR>
impersonating a member of the military - especially in a martial law<BR>
society.<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Someone asked:<BR>
> <BR>
> >2.Would ex-military be allowed to wear their dress uniforms?<BR>
> >Currently, I don't think they can, but in the nobility laden<BR>
> >OTU?<BR>
> <BR>
> In my Traveller universe, veterans (whether noble or common) of<BR>
> the four uniformed Imperial services who have received a<BR>
> discharge other than dishonorable may wear the full dress<BR>
> uniform of their service for the rest of their lives, but they<BR>
> are required to wear a white diamond-shaped insignia on their<BR>
> right breast that indicates that they have been discharged from<BR>
> service.  The Scouts' insignia is a pin, of course, which can be<BR>
> removed if the scout is re-attached to the service.  (You never<BR>
> get discharged from the Scouts; you just get detached duty.)  <BR>
> <BR>
> Nobles may wear certain insignia related to their noble rank on<BR>
> their Imperial uniforms in accordance with service regulations. <BR>
> For example, a shield bearing the noble's family's arms with a<BR>
> noble rank insignia may be worn on the right jacket pocket.  <BR>
> <BR>
> Anyone can wear fatigue or utility uniforms.  Only currently<BR>
> serving personnel may wear such uniforms with Imperial insignia.<BR>
> <BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
> http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 14:07:41 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > > > these "insider" signals lose their meaning.<BR>
> > > ...or they're sometimes replaced by others.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > Red ties anybody?<BR>
> <BR>
> Huh?  What sort of frickin' sicko PERVERT would want to make it with a<BR>
> Harvard graduate?<BR>
<BR>
A social-climber Yalie?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:06:39 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:14 AM 1/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Hanky codes are another good one.  Many g/l/b/t and kink folks used to use<BR>
> >different bandana colors to indicate what sexual practices they favored,<BR>
> >but these were by no means standard from locality to locality.<BR>
> <BR>
> I think we still have one of the guide cards around here somewhere.  Too<BR>
> complex.  I prefer desperately shouting my interests at closing time.<BR>
<BR>
Wow.  I hadn't thought anyone could _pronounce_ "penguin" by closing time!<BR>
You're hard-core.<BR>
<BR>
Intentionally Off-Topic:  When I was in the anthro department at UMich, I<BR>
posted on the main grad student bulletin board a long printout of a hanky<BR>
code, and down at the bottom wrote in "ETHNOGRAPHER: _________ (left)  <BR>
_________ (right)".  It failed to spark much debate, except about whether<BR>
I really belonged there or not.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 14:11:59 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: GT: Imperial Navy Playtest Suspended<BR>
<BR>
FYI:<BR>
<BR>
The following appeared on the SJG Web site, at the playtest files<BR>
download site:<BR>
<BR>
"GURPS Traveller: Imperial Navy has been postponed indefinitely; the<BR>
manuscript that was posted here varied in too many respects from what SJ<BR>
Games, and Traveller fans, expected from this title. We are now looking<BR>
for a new proposal, but we have no idea when Imperial Navy will go back<BR>
onto the schedule. Sorry for the delay...."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:08:19 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Threats to kill<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Strephon.<BR>
> <BR>
> The Real Strephon or one of his clones?<BR>
<BR>
Jeeez.  I've got four inquiries, on and off-list, about this.  I'm glad to<BR>
see that the threat of Rebellion still has people on their toes.<BR>
<BR>
In answer to your question, only my dope-peddling, diary-snooping doctor<BR>
knows for sure.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:11:59 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Threats to kill<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:36 AM 1/6/2000 -0500, Strephon wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> * Sorry, Kenji. Couldn't resist that. What is it that you're claiming to<BR>
> >> be today?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Strephon.<BR>
><BR>
> Real, Robotic, or Clone?<BR>
<BR>
Do we really want an anwser to that?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:16:46 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hyphen for Emperor!<BR>
<BR>
At 17:55 -0500 5/1/00,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> wrote:<BR>
> >Been there, done that. Did I mention playing the Big S at Sydcon?<BR>
>;-)<BR>
><BR>
>	Hyphen for Grandfather!<BR>
<BR>
Ok, coming right up...<BR>
<BR>
Grand-father.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:24:24 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: It takes a Village (was Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug at the stake! Legion at thePiano!)<BR>
<BR>
At 19:16 -0500 5/1/00, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
>Exactly!  <g> It could very well be that the Solomani have been as<BR>
>badly propagandized against as have the Zhodani.  Remember when the<BR>
>turban heads were unmitigated bad guys?  More recent thought is that<BR>
>they are anything but, well, the same may be true of the Solies.<BR>
><BR>
>You want to know who the black hats really are?  It's the Impie<BR>
>imperialists!<BR>
<BR>
Well, I notice that both the Solomani and the Zhodani are open and <BR>
honest about the existence of their plain clothes police unit (SolSec <BR>
and the Tvarchedl').<BR>
<BR>
What are the Impies hiding, eh?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:27:56 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Photo PagePhoto Page<BR>
<BR>
At 19:45 -0500 5/1/00, "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>  wrote:<BR>
>This reminds me - what state is the TML photo page, and who was hosting it<BR>
>again? (Dom?)<BR>
<BR>
The BITS site's Travelling Pages puts some faces to names <BR>
(http://www.bits.org.uk/)<BR>
<BR>
I think that either Jesse or Doug had the San Francisco TML'rs on.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:40:32 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: BITS! Lovely BITS! Wonderful BITS!<BR>
<BR>
At 21:43 -0500 5/1/00,  "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com> wrote:<BR>
> > Woo hoo!  The Warehouse finally has the new BITS items available to order.<BR>
> > Yippee!<BR>
> > um. Sorry.  I'm a little excited (see above)<BR>
> > =)<BR>
><BR>
>Um, Kiri, when yer done sedating Kenji, I hope ya got some left over <BR>
>for Swordy...<BR>
<BR>
BTW, as ever we welcome reviews of our products (good or bad*) on the <BR>
TML. Or you could even send them to Jeff for Freelance Traveller. <BR>
We're interested in the response to the adventures to see if it is <BR>
viable to produce more. Conventional RPG manufacturer wisdom says it <BR>
isn't viable, but you all asked for adventures...<BR>
<BR>
Dom (BITS webmaster)<BR>
<BR>
*obviously, we prefer good ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------<BR>
                  BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.<BR>
  http://www.bits.org.uk/              mailto:bits@bits.org.uk<BR>
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.<BR>
BITS and CORE are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:51:08 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Voice of Reason (Solomani Style) (long)<BR>
<BR>
At 1:15 -0500 6/1/00, Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:<BR>
>Come on, Nick, everyone likes when gearishness happens!  This is the TML!<BR>
>(And if it's a _special_ sort of design, well, you never know when Famille<BR>
>Spofulam recruiters will come knocking on your door!)<BR>
<BR>
Kenji, did you ever see the FS Winter Catalogue that is on the BITS <BR>
site's archive page. All the best of RDE's work.<BR>
<BR>
Shame the Sayat haven't done one....<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1687<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1688</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 6 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1688<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Threats to kill<BR>
Re: Tech Levels<BR>
Re: Rat dogs!<BR>
Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
Re: uniforms after discharge<BR>
RE: Rat dogs!<BR>
Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
Re: Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
Re: Threats to kill<BR>
Re: Imperial Navy Playtest Suspended<BR>
Re: It takes a Village (was Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug atthe stake! Legion at thePiano!)<BR>
Re: uniforms after discharge<BR>
RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Sayat<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: OT:  Implications =)<BR>
Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
Re: fashions (long)<BR>
Vargr breeds<BR>
RE: Military Insurance<BR>
Re: fashions (long)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:12:01 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Threats to kill<BR>
<BR>
At 12:40 -0500 6/1/00, Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:<BR>
> > * Sorry, Kenji. Couldn't resist that. What is it that you're claiming to be<BR>
> > today?<BR>
><BR>
>Strephon.<BR>
<BR>
Imposter!<BR>
<BR>
The *real* Strephon!<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:18:09 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Tech Levels<BR>
<BR>
At 1:15 -0500 6/1/00, John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:<BR>
>Wonders of the World (Great Library [duh!] and Leonardo's Workshop).<BR>
<BR>
I initially read that as "Leonard's Workshop" and had a vision on <BR>
loads of networked old computers...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
(Spending too much time playing the recently released MacOS version <BR>
of Total Annihilation)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:38:09 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Rat dogs!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> But come on, do you really want various DOG BREEDS represented amongst the<BR>
> Vargr?  Some shepherds and huskies might be cool but I personally do not<BR>
> even want to contemplate Poodle-Vargr, let alone Chihuahua Vargr.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
"Lets GO Rovers!"<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:38:50 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
<BR>
Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> There's a fish & chip shop near Stilton (near a  friend's  place)<BR>
> that sells Mars bars deep fried in cripy batter, does that count?<BR>
<BR>
Just so long as you don't sell it in Bloods territory ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:45:04 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
Pete, or possibly Jeff Peterson, wrote:<BR>
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:25:26 +0000, Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> ><BR>
> >IIRC, Heinlein often had families on board spacecraft (where they could set<BR>
> >the temperature to whatever they wanted) wearing nothing at all.  I confess<BR>
> >to being intrigued as to the practicality of this as a teenager!<BR>
> ><BR>
> Is it just me or did RAH's later books get kind of weird. I sometimes<BR>
> got the impression he was writing with one hand (if you get my drift.)<BR>
<BR>
It wasn't just you.<BR>
<BR>
In a desperate effort to avoid the RAH thread, has anyone else <BR>
noticed that Niven is starting to read more like a dirty old man<BR>
than he used to? Do other big-name science fiction writers get <BR>
this way as they get older?<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:52:01 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: uniforms after discharge<BR>
<BR>
>From: Imaginactra <russcm@shell.zoomnet.net><BR>
<BR>
>In general, you may also want to note the current law level of <BR>
>the location in question before wearing a military or para-<BR>
>military type uniform if you are not in any way associated with<BR>
the military.<BR>
<BR>
Good point.  I should have specified in my post that I was only<BR>
talking about Imperial law and regulation, not local law.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:54:51 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Rat dogs!<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Thing wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Thursday, January 06, 2000 10:39 AM<BR>
> Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>
> <BR>
> > But come on, do you really want various DOG BREEDS represented amongst<BR>
> the<BR>
> > Vargr?  Some shepherds and huskies might be cool but I personally do<BR>
> not<BR>
> > even want to contemplate Poodle-Vargr, let alone Chihuahua Vargr.<BR>
> <BR>
> I immediately pictured a tavern being entered by the crew of a Vargr<BR>
> "trader" composed mainly of Shar-Pei Vargr and Mexican hairless<BR>
> (XOLOITZQUINTLE) Vargr.<BR>
> <BR>
2.0<BR>
<BR>
Kiri =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:52:06 -0800<BR>
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> In a desperate effort to avoid the RAH thread, has anyone else<BR>
> noticed that Niven is starting to read more like a dirty old man<BR>
> than he used to? Do other big-name science fiction writers get<BR>
> this way as they get older?<BR>
><BR>
I know of one writer who went the other way. Robert Adams, author of the<BR>
Horsecleans, started out writing of Penthouse Forum to put food on the table<BR>
and later was quite successful in his writing.<BR>
<BR>
Wayne<BR>
wewart@home.com<BR>
icq22113294<BR>
http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/<BR>
<BR>
Give a man fire and he is warm for the night.<BR>
Set a man on fire and he is warm all his life.<BR>
- - Terry Pratchett<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:55:29 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
<BR>
From: <Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Just to clarify, I was specifically interested in *printing*.  The world I<BR>
> was  thinking of does have writing on scrolls.  I was basically curious<BR>
> as to how believable folks would find a Traveller world that was TL2<BR>
> but had no printing yet.<BR>
<BR>
It's quite believable. From what I understand, the Chinese developed block<BR>
printing, but then abandoned it.<BR>
<BR>
> (Which reminds me to ask - does anyone have or know of a good<BR>
> description of just how information was encoded on the quipu<BR>
> knotted strings I've heard so much about?)<BR>
<BR>
As a matter of fact, yes.<BR>
<BR>
First, a description is in order:<BR>
<BR>
Imagine a length of yarn, with a knot at one end and a loop at the other.<BR>
This can be imagined as sort of a "base" quipu. Other strings could be tied<BR>
to this quipu, with some intended to branch "upward" and others intended to<BR>
branch "downward". In this sense, not only could a quipu be read<BR>
horizontally, but it could be read vertically as well. In theory, but I<BR>
don't think that this was the practice, additional horizontal quipu could be<BR>
added to the vertical branches.<BR>
<BR>
A quipu was an *aid* to memory, not, like the written word, a replacement<BR>
for it. A quipu reader would be trained to read a specific quipu. The<BR>
details, to some extent, would be in his head. On each string there were a<BR>
series of knots. The distance between the knots, the distance between the<BR>
branches, the color of the string, and so on, would indicate various things<BR>
to the reader who would recall these things from memory as required. The<BR>
knots themselves could be used to indicate numbers. In addition, color<BR>
combinations on string were also important. One string might start out one<BR>
color and end in another color, or two strings of different colors could be<BR>
twisted together. Quipu, with good quipu readers, could be extremely<BR>
reliable sources of information. Without them, they're just a bundle of<BR>
string.<BR>
<BR>
Imagine the following is encoded on a quipu string:<BR>
<BR>
"In the year 2000, the City of Chris, which had supplies which could last<BR>
for 60 days, was attacked by a treacherous army of 3,210 soldiers from the<BR>
City of Kenji. Five runners were sent from the City of Chris to the Glenn<BR>
Confederacy. One made it to the city of Goffin, two made it to the City of<BR>
St-Germain. St-Germain, a noble ally, sent 523 soldiers, 16 sheep, and<BR>
supplies for 7 days. The city of Goffin sent 20 soldiers and entered into<BR>
diplomatic negotiations with the City of Kenji which lasted for 3 weeks. The<BR>
soldiers under Kenji laid siege to the city of Chris for 30 days, finally<BR>
sending 3 runners to the city of Doug..." Etc...<BR>
<BR>
Someone familiar with the methods of reading quipu, but not familiar with<BR>
that particular story might only understand the gross details which I've<BR>
listed. On the other hand, a quipu reader trained with this specific quipu<BR>
and the story behind it might be able to fill in many details which<BR>
otherwise couldn't be made apparent.<BR>
<BR>
Quipu strings aren't the only method out there that serve as this sort of<BR>
memory aid. A number of cultures had mnemonic memory aids. Many used string,<BR>
some used string and beads and so on. I can think of a common, and somewhat<BR>
simplified version of the same theme which is currently still in use in the<BR>
Western world: the Catholic Rosary.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:58:46 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Threats to kill<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > At 10:36 AM 1/6/2000 -0500, Strephon wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >> * Sorry, Kenji. Couldn't resist that. What is it that you're claiming to<BR>
> > >> be today?<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >Strephon.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Real, Robotic, or Clone?<BR>
> <BR>
> Do we really want an anwser to that?<BR>
> <BR>
Perhaps the answer is "yes".<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:57:59 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Imperial Navy Playtest Suspended<BR>
<BR>
>"GURPS Traveller: Imperial Navy has been postponed indefinitely; the<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Wha?  I'm glad I grabbed those playtest files when I did....<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 21:03:24 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: It takes a Village (was Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug atthe stake! Legion at thePiano!)<BR>
<BR>
>Well, I notice that both the Solomani and the Zhodani are open and<BR>
>honest about the existence of their plain clothes police unit (SolSec<BR>
>and the Tvarchedl').<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Isn't the Tavrchedl' more a psychiatric response unit than a plain-clothes<BR>
police force?<BR>
I'd have put Toz'jabr (sp?) up for the title, myself. Well, the<BR>
CIA/KGB/CHEKA school of secret police forces, anyway.<BR>
<BR>
(Besides, Toz'jabr have a great sense of *style*.)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:08:46 -0600<BR>
From: Andy Holzrichter <jhereg@southwind.net><BR>
Subject: Re: uniforms after discharge<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:06:16 -0500 (EST)<BR>
>From: Imaginactra <russcm@shell.zoomnet.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: uniforms after discharge<BR>
><BR>
>In general, you may also want to note the current law level of the<BR>
>location in question before wearing a military or para-military type<BR>
>uniform if you are not in any way associated with the military.<BR>
>Ex-Military may be allowed, but general civilians may end up arrested for<BR>
>impersonating a member of the military - especially in a martial law<BR>
>society.<BR>
><BR>
>On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Someone asked:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> >2.Would ex-military be allowed to wear their dress uniforms?<BR>
>> >Currently, I don't think they can, but in the nobility laden<BR>
>> >OTU?<BR>
	In our campaigns we have always allowed the wearing of dress uniforms.<BR>
This had a rather unforseen consequence when a retired Marine General<BR>
elected to wear his dress uniform off the starbase on a VERY high law level<BR>
planet.  We had already established that uniforms were allowed under<BR>
Imperial law on all member planets.  Unfortunately in our campaign a sword<BR>
is part of the Marine dress uniform.  He couldn't take off the sword and be<BR>
in uniform, he wasn't willing to go back and change.  Local law said he<BR>
couldn't have so much as a pocket knife.  Eventually the custom's officials<BR>
threw up their hands and let him though.  Much to the delight of the<BR>
Marines on duty on the Imperial side of the gate I must add.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:11:41 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Thing wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > I think it's a side effect of the use of clothes as a statement of<BR>
> > identity.  When we're allowed to choose what we wear, we make choices<BR>
> > that<BR>
> > express some part of ourselves.  Almost any tool, even a tool for<BR>
> > self-expression, can be used as a weapon.<BR>
> <BR>
> That is part of the problem with the school uniform idea.  I work in a<BR>
> school district and people are often advocating uniforms as a way to<BR>
> reduce tensions etc between the kids that can afford the expensive<BR>
> tennis shoes and the kids that can't.<BR>
> <BR>
> The problem is that people adapt to what they can wear.  If they need to<BR>
> wear uniforms the wealthier kids will always have better fitting<BR>
> uniforms and more of them so less wear and tear.  Also little things<BR>
> like hair clips and pins get to be status items.<BR>
> <BR>
This is exactly what happens in Japan.  In some systems, everyone even has<BR>
to use the same school bag.  But then you have the purse, and the socks,<BR>
and the shoes (within guidelines).  "Loose socks" (big, white floppy knee<BR>
socks that look like legwarmers with feet and sometimes need glue to keep<BR>
them up because they are so heavy) were recently controversial because<BR>
they were often, but NOT exclusively, worn by trendy girls who also tended<BR>
to be "loose" in other ways.  (I wanted a pair and am pissed that I let<BR>
someone talk me out of buying them... I should have bought multiple pairs,<BR>
as they are IDEAL for San Francisco any time except September-October.)<BR>
<BR>
The cheap loose socks won't stay up without "sock glue" (similar to<BR>
theatrical adhesive).  The expensive ones do.<BR>
<BR>
Then there is the pervasive social problem in large Japanese cities of<BR>
high school girls using the telephone personals services to meet older men<BR>
for "enjou-kousai" or "compensated dating", a polite word for<BR>
prostitution.  This is by no means normal teenage behavior, but a large<BR>
enough number of girls do this that it has become a stereotype:  the<BR>
part-time prostitute with her very short skirt, big socks, streaked hair,<BR>
etc.  They usually use the money to buy expensive designer bags, expensive<BR>
clothing, and pay off their cell phone bills.  That's how important these<BR>
status symbols are to some of them.<BR>
<BR>
(Though in all fairness-- I've never SEEN cheap clothes in a Japanese<BR>
dept. store, and it is IMPOSSIBLE to get around over there without a cell<BR>
phone because EVERYONE has one.)<BR>
<BR>
> I imagine that in the big 3I that tailoring and such is cheaply<BR>
> available from automatic sources, but certain materials and hand<BR>
> stitching would probably definitely mark the well dressed individual,<BR>
> but what little accessories might belay status or fraternal ties.<BR>
> <BR>
I would concur.<BR>
<BR>
> What little trinket might a PC routinely carry that would draw the wrong<BR>
> assumptions on some world?<BR>
> <BR>
Given the vast array of strange things that HAVE been used as signals for<BR>
this, that and the other thing-- almost anything.<BR>
<BR>
I mean, for heavens sake, you don't wear sunglasses in Japan unless you<BR>
are a yakuza (or wish to be thought one).  As a large woman who tends to<BR>
wear a leather jacket and is of mixed blood, I could probably scare people<BR>
silly if I put on sunglasses!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:13:42 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote: <BR>
> <BR>
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > > > these "insider" signals lose their meaning.<BR>
> > > ...or they're sometimes replaced by others.<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > Red ties anybody?<BR>
> <BR>
> Huh?  What sort of frickin' sicko PERVERT would want to make it with a<BR>
> Harvard graduate?  <BR>
> <BR>
I dunno.  Guess you better get laid now, before it's too late, Kenji.<BR>
<BR>
> You people!  I'm disgusted beyond words.<BR>
> <BR>
Me too!<BR>
<BR>
(Tsukuba-dai boys are bad enough!)<BR>
<BR>
LOL, Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:14:26 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Sayat<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Sorry, I thought the marketing material indicated that it<BR>
> > vibrated; maybe that was another Sayat product.<BR>
> <BR>
> Probably the RoboReindeer.<BR>
> <BR>
Where is this great Sayat page?<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:16:00 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Intentionally Off-Topic:  When I was in the anthro department at UMich, I<BR>
> posted on the main grad student bulletin board a long printout of a hanky<BR>
> code, and down at the bottom wrote in "ETHNOGRAPHER: _________ (left)  <BR>
> _________ (right)".  It failed to spark much debate, except about whether<BR>
> I really belonged there or not.<BR>
> <BR>
4.0<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:18:04 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT:  Implications =)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > > I didn't say anything one way or the other about *that*. I merely noted<BR>
> > > a tendency to not clean up properly in one area. Whether that means<BR>
> > > they don't *use* the other areas, or are merely less "messy" in them is<BR>
> > > not for me to say. <BR>
> > > <BR>
> > This would imply that you have observed me and Kenji in action before.  I<BR>
> > would like to know where, and I'm sure he would too, since *I* don't<BR>
> > remember it...<BR>
> <BR>
> I think Leonard may have been hinting that we don't clean up the _list_<BR>
> when we're done playing with it.<BR>
> <BR>
We can't.  We don't have moderator privileges.  Which may be a good thing.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:31:18 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
How good is your Marlon Brando impersonation<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
><BR>
>I mean, for heavens sake, you don't wear sunglasses in Japan unless you<BR>
>are a yakuza (or wish to be thought one).  As a large woman who tends to<BR>
>wear a leather jacket and is of mixed blood, I could probably scare people<BR>
>silly if I put on sunglasses!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:56:04 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
>Word has it that when JFK made his linguistic blunder, there was some<BR>
>tittering in the crowd, but the Germans were too polite to actually<BR>
>break into laughter -- they knew what he was trying to say...<BR>
<BR>
When John Diefenbaker was in Mexico (as PM) he made a short speach in<BR>
Spanish. Everyone politely applauded, then the Mexican President thanked<BR>
him for addressing them in his native French.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:45:08 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions (long)<BR>
<BR>
> As for fashion being dictated by function, I would suggest<BR>
> that function often influences fashion, even though it may<BR>
> not always be obvious.  The fashion of clipping poodles<BR>
> apparently started with helping the poodles to avoid<BR>
> tangles when retrieving in swampy terrain (I have no source<BR>
> for this, anyone know more about it?).  Most people would<BR>
> not think of a poodle as a working dog, nor of it's clipping<BR>
> as functional.<BR>
<BR>
    Totally correct, but the poodle (Pudelhund) is a bird dog originally<BR>
breed to retrieve in swamps that has wool, not fur. To keep the dog warm<BR>
(and buoyant) the wool is left long but clipped away from the joints to<BR>
allow full movement. The stereotype yapping poodle is a result of training,<BR>
not nature. My poodle thinks he's a german shepherd, other dogs occasionally<BR>
disabuse him of this notion.<BR>
    Unfortunately the little guy ate some Panadiene two days ago and I'm<BR>
looking at him lying on the couch with a drip in his foreleg and a muzzle<BR>
tied to his head, waiting to see if he'll die. Moral: Dogs can be as clever<BR>
as children. No matter how high a drug is, it is not safe. Lock it up.<BR>
    Dogs cannot eliminate paracetamol and asprin quickly enough, it causes<BR>
liver shutdown resulting in death. These normal drugs may well be restricted<BR>
in the Traveller universe to avoid accidental Vargr deaths.<BR>
<BR>
<snip> (The railroad guage anecdote)<BR>
>So a major design feature of what is arguably the world's most<BR>
>advanced transportation system was originally determined by the<BR>
>width of a horse's ass.<BR>
>Peez<BR>
<BR>
    To continue this thread, I've noticed the standard container on a fat<BR>
trader is the same as a standard container in our world. That horses arse is<BR>
still going strong.<BR>
    Jim.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:44:21 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Vargr breeds<BR>
<BR>
I'm pretty sure that all dog breeds in existence today can be traced back <BR>
to a common ancestor, the wolf.<BR>
Grandfather and his kids scarfed wolves from Earth some 300,000 years ago, <BR>
I'm not sure, but this may be-pre-dog.<BR>
<BR>
The non-canon, held in hostage, DGP book Cogs & Dogs goes into detail on <BR>
some Vargr subspecies.  These include a larger breed that wouldn't think <BR>
twice about taking on male Aslan in hand to hand, and a smaller breed with <BR>
a higher instance of psionics.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com  Opinions stated are those of the author's dog...<BR>
"Prairie dogging" - In companies where everyone has a cubicle, something<BR>
happens and everyone pops up to look. http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:54:45 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Military Insurance<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
I sent the Military Insurance posting to Andrew Madden (Eoraokortitrikhue/Count<BR>
Leto) and he replied with this gem:<BR>
<BR>
>Destroyed in 30 minutes, or your next one is free  -- U.S. Marines.<BR>
<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:56:31 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions (long)<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>     Totally correct, but the poodle (Pudelhund) is a bird dog originally<BR>
> breed to retrieve in swamps that has wool, not fur. To keep the dog warm<BR>
> (and buoyant) the wool is left long but clipped away from the joints to<BR>
> allow full movement. The stereotype yapping poodle is a result of training,<BR>
> not nature. My poodle thinks he's a german shepherd, other dogs occasionally<BR>
> disabuse him of this notion.<BR>
<BR>
I would also like to point out that standard poodles are not yappy and<BR>
nutty.  They are also quite respectably sized.  The really nutty and crazy<BR>
poodles I've met were not just toy, but tiny-toy and teacup.  Some of<BR>
these animals are bred with no thought of anything other than size and<BR>
are actively inbred-- making many of the teacup poodles about as sane as<BR>
Caligula on LSD.<BR>
<BR>
>     Unfortunately the little guy ate some Panadiene two days ago and I'm<BR>
> looking at him lying on the couch with a drip in his foreleg and a muzzle<BR>
> tied to his head, waiting to see if he'll die. Moral: Dogs can be as clever<BR>
> as children. No matter how high a drug is, it is not safe. Lock it up.<BR>
<BR>
{{{{{{{{{{Jim}}}}}}}}}}}<BR>
<BR>
My dog died when I was 13, poisoned by a neighbor.  Will be praying for<BR>
yours.<BR>
<BR>
>     Dogs cannot eliminate paracetamol and asprin quickly enough, it causes<BR>
> liver shutdown resulting in death. These normal drugs may well be restricted<BR>
> in the Traveller universe to avoid accidental Vargr deaths.<BR>
<BR>
I wouldn't think so.  Vargr are intelligent enough not to use or purchase<BR>
them, unless they are suicidal.<BR>
<BR>
Most cultures don't babysit their people nearly as much as the US does and<BR>
I would be very surprised if it is common to do so in the 3I-- it is<BR>
ridiculous that we have to go thru hoops to import Airsoft guns because<BR>
they look real and some idjit MIGHT get hirself shot waving one at a cop.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1688<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1689</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 6 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 1689<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
RE: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
Re: No Rimward Expansion?<BR>
Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: Military Insurance<BR>
Sandwich of the Gods! (was re: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
Re: fashions (long)<BR>
Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
RE: Military Insurance<BR>
Re: Rat dogs!<BR>
Re: GT: Imperial Navy Playtest Suspended<BR>
Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
Snob Schools (was: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
OT: Quicken for Mac<BR>
Re: fashions (long)<BR>
Re: Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
Re: Sayat<BR>
Re: OT: Implications =) <BR>
RE: fashions (long)<BR>
Re: No Rimward Expansion?<BR>
RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:59:56 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
At 06:08 pm 1/6/00 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
>><BR>
>>I strongly doubt that adventurers, whatever their prior<BR>
>>service may be, go out drinking, go shopping, or go on dates<BR>
>>wearing flight suits.<BR>
><BR>
>Well, adventurers may not, but real people do.<BR>
<BR>
	Please. If you've known any fighter pilots you'd know they're<BR>
terrified somebody might not know they're a stud, so they wear the<BR>
flightsuits *everywhere*.<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:05:27 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
>From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
<BR>
>In a desperate effort to avoid the RAH thread, has anyone else <BR>
>noticed that Niven is starting to read more like a dirty old<BR>
man<BR>
>than he used to? Do other big-name science fiction writers get <BR>
>this way as they get older?<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure it's a phenomenon limited to big-name science<BR>
fiction writers.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:10:14 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, David J. Golden wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 06:08 pm 1/6/00 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
> >><BR>
> >>I strongly doubt that adventurers, whatever their prior<BR>
> >>service may be, go out drinking, go shopping, or go on dates<BR>
> >>wearing flight suits.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Well, adventurers may not, but real people do.<BR>
> <BR>
> 	Please. If you've known any fighter pilots you'd know they're<BR>
> terrified somebody might not know they're a stud, so they wear the<BR>
> flightsuits *everywhere*.<BR>
> <BR>
It must be the bars I hang out in, I have NEVER seen a man come into a bar<BR>
in his uniform.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
and no, they're NOT all gay bars...<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:12:49 EST<BR>
From: KenRoney@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: No Rimward Expansion?<BR>
<BR>
There was an old article  (c. 1982), published with approval I believe, set <BR>
on Jack Vance's world Tchai, placed c. 150 parsecs rimward of Terra.  I have <BR>
it buried in my basement somewhere.  It always impressed me as a wide open <BR>
campaign setting.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:20:17 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
it's not.  look at us  <BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>Do other big-name science fiction writers get <BR>
>>this way as they get older?<BR>
><BR>
>I'm not sure it's a phenomenon limited to big-name science<BR>
>fiction writers.  <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:16:24 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
On Thursday, January 06, 2000 1:12 PM<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>
<BR>
> Given the vast array of strange things that HAVE been used as signals<BR>
for<BR>
> this, that and the other thing-- almost anything.<BR>
<BR>
<Leer><BR>
"Hey there.  I couldn't help but notice that you have a pull tab on your<BR>
zipper and we all know what that means."<BR>
</Leer><BR>
<BR>
> I mean, for heavens sake, you don't wear sunglasses in Japan unless<BR>
you<BR>
> are a yakuza (or wish to be thought one).  As a large woman who tends<BR>
to<BR>
> wear a leather jacket and is of mixed blood, I could probably scare<BR>
people<BR>
> silly if I put on sunglasses!<BR>
<BR>
When I was up in Vancouver my brother in law, who is for an Italian<BR>
family, took me to his store and asked me to look intimidating and not<BR>
speak.  He motioned for me to stay at the back of the store when he went<BR>
to talk to his brother so I took up a stance by the back door.  When<BR>
this guy at the counter looked back and saw me standing there all in<BR>
black with sunglasses, fingerless gloves and my pony tail exclaimed<BR>
"Shit, Danny's got his own enforcer."  His brother then got a worried<BR>
look when Danny told him that we where going to drive around and pick up<BR>
some checks that people owed him. ;)<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
Thing under the stairs,<BR>
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
==================================<BR>
"You can't be real a country unless you have a beer and an airline. It<BR>
helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons,<BR>
but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:10:39 -0800<BR>
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Insurance<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> >Destroyed in 30 minutes, or your next one is free  -- U.S. Marines.<BR>
> <BR>
4.0<BR>
missed the keyboard by about 3"<BR>
<BR>
Wayne<BR>
wewart@home.com<BR>
icq22113294<BR>
http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/<BR>
<BR>
"It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion,<BR>
By the beans of Java, my thoughts acquire speed,<BR>
The hands acquire the shakes, the shakes become a warning,<BR>
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:15:33 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Sandwich of the Gods! (was re: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/06/00 at 04:10 PM,  Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Well, now you went and did it. I was just fine up until that  last bit.<BR>
>The peanut butter and banana business did me in.  Go ahead and see if you<BR>
>can goad me into making threats by telling me they are fried. <g><BR>
<BR>
If it was good enough for Elvis...<wink><BR>
<BR>
I've never fried the sandwiches, though, just chunky pbutter and<BR>
bananas on bread. <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:16:36 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Evyn wrote:<BR>
>Actully I am hoping to have the formal combat/court attire of the Clan<BR>
>MacDude ready for the dinner.<BR>
<BR>
Just make sure someone brings a camera.<BR>
<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:19:44 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions (long)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
<BR>
>    Unfortunately the little guy ate some Panadiene two days <BR>
>ago and I'm looking at him lying on the couch with a drip in <BR>
>his foreleg and a muzzle tied to his head, waiting to see if <BR>
>he'll die. Moral: Dogs can be as clever as children. No matter <BR>
>how high a drug is, it is not safe. Lock it up.<BR>
>    Dogs cannot eliminate paracetamol and asprin quickly <BR>
>enough, it causes liver shutdown resulting in death. These <BR>
>normal drugs may well be restricted in the Traveller universe <BR>
>to avoid accidental Vargr deaths.<BR>
<BR>
Best wishes for your curious dog.  I hope he makes it, and that<BR>
he's learned a lesson.  <BR>
<BR>
It seems to me that dogs react badly to chocolate and ham as<BR>
well; there may also be concern about these in Vargr populated<BR>
areas.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:18:39 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/06/00 at 04:17 PM,  "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
>> To me, hating homosexuals makes about as much sense as hating<BR>
>> people who put bananas on their peanut butter sandwiches in<BR>
>> lieu of using jelly.<BR>
<BR>
>There's a fish & chip shop near Stilton (near a  friend's  place) that<BR>
>sells Mars bars deep fried in cripy batter, does that count?<BR>
<BR>
Now that's just sick! <g> <BR>
<BR>
Actually, it sounds good, I'll have to try it.<BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
    we deep fry *everything*<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:22:15 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Military Insurance<BR>
<BR>
>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
<BR>
>Destroyed in 30 minutes, or your next one is free  <BR>
>-- U.S. Marines.<BR>
<BR>
When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed overnight<BR>
- -- U.S. Air Force<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:20:18 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Rat dogs!<BR>
<BR>
On 01/06/00 at 04:19 PM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> That *still* doesn't explain that velvet painting of the Vargr sitting around playing poker.<BR>
<BR>
>And is there any truth to the rumor that the Allied Powers in World War I<BR>
>employed Vargr mercenary pilots?<BR>
<BR>
No, those were just Canadians. <gd&r><BR>
<BR>
Eris^h^h^h^hKenji<BR>
<BR>
<yeah, that's the ticket let Kenji take the heat><BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:22:12 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: GT: Imperial Navy Playtest Suspended<BR>
<BR>
On 01/06/00 at 04:21 PM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>FYI:<BR>
<BR>
>The following appeared on the SJG Web site, at the playtest files<BR>
>download site:<BR>
<BR>
>"GURPS Traveller: Imperial Navy has been postponed indefinitely; the<BR>
>manuscript that was posted here varied in too many respects from what SJ<BR>
>Games, and Traveller fans, expected from this title. We are now looking<BR>
>for a new proposal, but we have no idea when Imperial Navy will go back<BR>
>onto the schedule. Sorry for the delay...."<BR>
<BR>
Hum, that's interesting. Does anyone want to speculate on what brought that on?<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:28:09 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
On 01/06/00 at 04:24 PM,  Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> Is it just me or did RAH's later books get kind of weird. I sometimes<BR>
>> got the impression he was writing with one hand (if you get my drift.)<BR>
<BR>
>It wasn't just you.<BR>
<BR>
>In a desperate effort to avoid the RAH thread, has anyone else  noticed<BR>
>that Niven is starting to read more like a dirty old man than he used to?<BR>
>Do other big-name science fiction writers get  this way as they get<BR>
>older?<BR>
<BR>
Haven't you ever heard the expression "dirty old men?"  We aren't<BR>
any dirtier as we get older, it's just, for whatever reason, we<BR>
don't hide it as often or as well.<BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
    old coot (not the oldest, but darn close)<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:30:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Snob Schools (was: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Huh?  What sort of frickin' sicko PERVERT would want to make it with a<BR>
> > Harvard graduate?<BR>
> <BR>
> A social-climber Yalie?<BR>
<BR>
Oooooh... I'll have to remember that one.<BR>
<BR>
I've always wished there were more institutions of higher learning in the<BR>
OTU, with a voice/presence, I mean.  What do we have?<BR>
<BR>
 - Kasiiga University on Vland<BR>
 - The Jumpspace Institue on Deneb<BR>
 - University of Regina<BR>
 - University of Rhylanor<BR>
 - Glisten Planetological Institute (?)<BR>
 - Institute for System Studies on Alzenei (Sky Raiders trilogy)<BR>
 - Imperial Academy of Science and Medicine<BR>
<BR>
... anything else?  Most of these don't have a whole lot of character,<BR>
ISTM; partly because, maybe, they're so far apart that they can't<BR>
interact enough.  Expansions would be cool.  101 Schools?  I'd write for<BR>
_that_.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:31:31 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Thing wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>
> <BR>
>> Given the vast array of strange things that HAVE been used as signals<BR>
>> for this, that and the other thing-- almost anything.<BR>
> <BR>
> <Leer><BR>
> "Hey there.  I couldn't help but notice that you have a pull tab on your<BR>
> zipper and we all know what that means."<BR>
> </Leer><BR>
> <BR>
Yup!<BR>
<BR>
>>I mean, for heavens sake, you don't wear sunglasses in Japan unless you<BR>
>>are a yakuza (or wish to be thought one).  As a large woman who tends to<BR>
>>wear a leather jacket and is of mixed blood, I could probably scare<BR>
>>people silly if I put on sunglasses!<BR>
> <BR>
> When I was up in Vancouver my brother in law, who is for an Italian<BR>
> family, took me to his store and asked me to look intimidating and not<BR>
> speak.  He motioned for me to stay at the back of the store when he went<BR>
> to talk to his brother so I took up a stance by the back door.  When<BR>
> this guy at the counter looked back and saw me standing there all in<BR>
> black with sunglasses, fingerless gloves and my pony tail exclaimed<BR>
> "Shit, Danny's got his own enforcer."  His brother then got a worried<BR>
> look when Danny told him that we where going to drive around and pick up<BR>
> some checks that people owed him. ;)<BR>
> <BR>
I've done that sort of thing for people too.  I have a five-foot-spit<BR>
really pretty Taiwanese female friend and have, at several anime cons,<BR>
pretended to be a jealous GF-- I can frighten most fanboys without too<BR>
much difficulty, though I can also be as kawaii as the next grrrl.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:33:06 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, it sounds good, I'll have to try it.<BR>
> <BR>
> Eris,<BR>
>     we deep fry *everything*<BR>
> <BR>
Hmmmmmmmmm.  Banana and chocolate tempura anyone?<BR>
<BR>
K =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:38:03 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: OT: Quicken for Mac<BR>
<BR>
Definately off-topic, but hopefully it will make a change from flamewars...<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone have an old version of Quicken (for the Mac) that they would be<BR>
willing to sell*?  I need version 7 (or maybe 98): something that will run<BR>
on a 68030 processor with system 7.5.3 -- and Intuit only sells a version<BR>
that requires most or my hard drive and a higher operating system than I<BR>
can use.<BR>
<BR>
Why?  Because I've just discovered that my copy (version 4) is not fully<BR>
Y2k compliant. (It appears to do everything correctly, but will only accept<BR>
two digits for the year when reconciling accounts.)  I spent 20 minutes in<BR>
the phone queue to Intuit Canada, only to be told I had two options: I<BR>
could buy a new computer, or I could look for a graymarket copy.<BR>
(Apparently 2 years is too long to support a product.)<BR>
<BR>
Ideally I'd like the Canadian version, but at this stage I'll take the US<BR>
one. Or suggestions as to a better product: Intuit's customer service<BR>
attitude has really pissed me off.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
* Actually, given what the George at customer service told me, Intuit<BR>
doesn't seem to care if I share someone else's copy of another version of<BR>
Quicken. Although that may have just been his way of brushing me off.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:39:52 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: fashions (long)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/06/00 at 04:36 PM,  "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au> said:<BR>
<BR>
>    Totally correct, but the poodle (Pudelhund) is a bird dog originally<BR>
>breed to retrieve in swamps that has wool, not fur. To keep the dog warm<BR>
>(and buoyant) the wool is left long but clipped away from the joints to<BR>
>allow full movement. <BR>
<BR>
Hum, I thought the poodle was from the Basque country where it was<BR>
bred to resemble a sheep.  The poodle's fur was clipped to conceal<BR>
suggled goods straped around them.  They would be mixed with a herd<BR>
of sheep and "driven" across the border.  I can't remember were I<BR>
saw this though.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sorry to hear about your dog. I hope he makes it.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:45:49 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> It's quite believable. From what I understand, the Chinese developed block<BR>
> printing, but then abandoned it.<BR>
<BR>
No, they kept using it up through the early part of this century.<BR>
Lithography was actually far more revolutionary than type printing when<BR>
they hit China in the later 19th centur, in terms of its effect on the<BR>
market and readership. (Printing with moveable type was developed in Korea<BR>
in the 1200s or 1300s, IIRC, and was used for a couple big jobs, but<BR>
wasn't economical and did die out.)<BR>
<BR>
> Imagine the following is encoded on a quipu string:<BR>
> <BR>
> "In the year 2000, the City of Chris, which had supplies which could last<BR>
> for 60 days, was attacked by a treacherous army of 3,210 soldiers from the<BR>
> City of Kenji. Five runners were sent from the City of Chris to the Glenn<BR>
> Confederacy. One made it to the city of Goffin, two made it to the City of<BR>
> St-Germain. St-Germain, a noble ally, sent 523 soldiers, 16 sheep, and<BR>
> supplies for 7 days. The city of Goffin sent 20 soldiers and entered into<BR>
> diplomatic negotiations with the City of Kenji which lasted for 3 weeks. The<BR>
> soldiers under Kenji laid siege to the city of Chris for 30 days, finally<BR>
> sending 3 runners to the city of Doug..." Etc...<BR>
<BR>
Chris, have you _slept_ since New Years'?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:47:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Sayat<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > > Sorry, I thought the marketing material indicated that it<BR>
> > > vibrated; maybe that was another Sayat product.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Probably the RoboReindeer.<BR>
> > <BR>
> Where is this great Sayat page?<BR>
<BR>
The Sayat page was taken down shortly after the Sayat emigrated, en masse,<BR>
from Milieu Zero to an as yet unknown temporal destination.  They may be<BR>
appearing soon in a TUNY*.  I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to be<BR>
here, but if I stay, I'm gonna put them up on John Harvard's server.  He<BR>
deserves it.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
*Trav Universe Near You, of course<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:46:00 -0500<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Implications =) <BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:05 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Implications =)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Must have been those 3 bottles of Quervo.  But I've got it here<BR>
*SOMEPLACE* on videotape...<BR>
><BR>
> Keven<BR>
><BR>
And if not, try to hit Jesse up for some 3D models. A little "blurr" to<BR>
distort any problem details nad there ya go! Instant video! Hum, now theres<BR>
an adventure hook. PC's trying to recover (false or real) blackmail holo<BR>
chrystal. Most of my old playerswould 'recover' it then use it them<BR>
selves....<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:51:07 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: fashions (long)<BR>
<BR>
On Thursday, January 06, 2000 1:45 PM<BR>
Jim & Peta Lawrie said,<BR>
<BR>
>    Dogs cannot eliminate paracetamol and asprin quickly<BR>
>enough, it causes liver shutdown resulting in death. These<BR>
>normal drugs may well be restricted in the Traveller universe<BR>
>to avoid accidental Vargr deaths.<BR>
<BR>
I can just see some unsuspecting PC's arrested for illegally<BR>
shipping/trafficking in aspirin and Chocolate.  I guess you wouldn't try<BR>
and haggle prices over cocoa with Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
Thing under the stairs,<BR>
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
==================================<BR>
"The main dangers in this life are the people who want to change<BR>
everything -- or nothing." -Lady Nancy Astor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:58:37 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: No Rimward Expansion?<BR>
<BR>
>There was an old article  (c. 1982), published with approval I believe, set<BR>
>on Jack Vance's world Tchai, placed c. 150 parsecs rimward of Terra.  I<BR>
have<BR>
>it buried in my basement somewhere.  It always impressed me as a wide open<BR>
>campaign setting.<BR>
<BR>
    I've always wanted to do that! Can you tell me what publication it is<BR>
in?<BR>
    Jim.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:58:57 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
On Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:32 PM<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>
<BR>
> I've done that sort of thing for people too.  I have a five-foot-spit<BR>
> really pretty Taiwanese female friend and have, at several anime cons,<BR>
> pretended to be a jealous GF-- I can frighten most fanboys without too<BR>
> much difficulty, though I can also be as kawaii as the next grrrl.<BR>
<BR>
I've done the jealous boyfriend routine for several ladies I know at<BR>
cons as well.  And one friend that is a five foot nothing readhead 4th<BR>
degree black belt had me hit on her on the first day of a con so she<BR>
could throw me down the hall.  After seeing this tiny cute girl send my<BR>
huge body rolling down the hall nobody bothered her the whole con.<BR>
Luckily for me I learned to take a fall well at an early age.<BR>
<BR>
I've never been able to pull of the same sex thing tho.  I actually had<BR>
a couple of ladies I work with tell me that I am the least gay man that<BR>
they know.  Of course one of these ladies also drunkenly told me that I<BR>
was really great to talk to because I was more like a girl than a guy.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
Thing under the stairs,<BR>
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
==================================<BR>
"I wanted to kiss this woman so bad, I wondered how I would stay alive<BR>
without it." -Richard Cohen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1689<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1690</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, January 7 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1690<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Military Insurance<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: DVDs and other storage media (was RE: There is one ...)<BR>
re:  Snob Schools <BR>
Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
Re: Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
Re: fashions (long)<BR>
Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
Re: Vargr breeds<BR>
Re: Rat dogs!<BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1676<BR>
Re: Rat dogs! <BR>
Re: It takes a Village<BR>
[BITS] Website Update 6 January 2000<BR>
Re: Snob Schools<BR>
Re: Voice of Reason (Solomani Version) <BR>
Re: Military Insurance <BR>
Re: OT: Implications =) <BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
Re: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
RE: Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
RE: fashions (long)<BR>
Re: OT: Quicken for Mac<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:01:31 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Insurance<BR>
<BR>
>When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed overnight<BR>
>-- U.S. Air Force<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Assuming of course that they've got the right map this time....<BR>
<BR>
NB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:09:56 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:<BR>
> The classic Niven Belter often operated out of a small singleship.  No air<BR>
> lock, you lived in your suit.  You had to get the helmet on in a hurry in<BR>
> case of a hull breach.  Long hair got in the way and in the machinery.<BR>
><BR>
> Shuttle astronauts don't 'hurry' into EVA suits.  The women have plenty of<BR>
> time to put up their hair prior to putting on the suit.<BR>
<BR>
If the long hair had a smart net in/on it, it would pose no<BR>
problem at all, just start to suit up and the net gathers the<BR>
hair into a coil at the top of the head.  A proximity sensor<BR>
with something to sense in the suit would be all it needed<BR>
to trigger the wind up.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:10:35 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media (was RE: There is one ...)<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich <yikes@evansville.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav: In many recent sf movies and shows, it is assumed that data<BR>
storage<BR>
> will keep getting smaller, with tiny cd-like disks having multi-gigabyte<BR>
> capacities used as the norm for data transfer. But how small is too small?<BR>
> This is where human design considerations come into play. When the<BR>
> technology to put a terabyte or three on a microdot comes into it's own,<BR>
> how much wasted space must be added to make it comfortable for human use?<BR>
> What is the smallest size you would imagine to be convenient for people to<BR>
> use?<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, even a CD as small as a dime would be usable if<BR>
it was used in a slide out loader (like current computer<BR>
CD readers use); however, they could be made even<BR>
smaller if the reader was not built into the machine.  For<BR>
example, let's say you went down to say 4 or 5 mm<BR>
diameter and stacked them say 20 tall with their readers<BR>
into something the size of an unfiltered king size<BR>
cigarette.  Then you could handle the combined unit with<BR>
ease.  You would then be able to use as many of these<BR>
combos as are needed to store as much information as<BR>
is needed for any data processing application.<BR>
<BR>
Of course with the progress that has been made with<BR>
RAM, this point might become moot.  If you could store<BR>
several Gb of RAM in something the size of a match<BR>
head and can interface hundreds of those, what with<BR>
RAM that doesn't need power to retain memory, who<BR>
needs off-line storage?<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:19:11 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Snob Schools <BR>
<BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
>Subject: Snob Schools (was: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
>... anything else?  Most of these don't have a whole lot of <BR>
>character, ISTM; partly because, maybe, they're so far apart <BR>
>that they can't interact enough.  Expansions would be cool.  <BR>
>101 Schools?  I'd write for _that_.<BR>
<BR>
Host:  "Oh, you're from Efate?  Well let me introduce you to<BR>
Ganiishi.  He's from Efate as well."<BR>
[mingling]<BR>
Guest 1:  "Hi, I hear you're from Efate.  Where'd you go to high<BR>
school?"<BR>
Ganiishi:  "Borah. You?"<BR>
Guest 1 [scowling]:  "Capital."  [turns away]<BR>
<BR>
It makes more sense if you substitute "Boise" for Efate; Capital<BR>
and Borah are the big high school rivals there (and I actually<BR>
had the foregoing conversation once in Cambridge (Mass.), but<BR>
primarily for the audience's benefit).  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:20:06 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/06/2000 17:18, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 01/06/00 at 04:17 PM,  "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com> said:<BR>
> <BR>
>> Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
>>> To me, hating homosexuals makes about as much sense as hating<BR>
>>> people who put bananas on their peanut butter sandwiches in<BR>
>>> lieu of using jelly.<BR>
> <BR>
>> There's a fish & chip shop near Stilton (near a  friend's  place) that<BR>
>> sells Mars bars deep fried in cripy batter, does that count?<BR>
> <BR>
> Now that's just sick! <g><BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, it sounds good, I'll have to try it.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
HA! I got you guys beat four ways to the wind....my dad taught me how to<BR>
make and eat peanut butter, sugar and bologna sandwiches. YUMMMMMMM!!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:18:12 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Chris, have you _slept_ since New Years'?<BR>
<BR>
Sleep? Yeah, I've slept... um... plenty... sort of? Why do you ask?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:24:05 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions (long)<BR>
<BR>
Thing wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> I can just see some unsuspecting PC's arrested for illegally<BR>
> shipping/trafficking in aspirin and Chocolate.  I guess you wouldn't try<BR>
> and haggle prices over cocoa with Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, chocolate is not so much a poison, as toxic in large<BR>
quantities to dogs. The problem is most acute for small dogs, since they<BR>
can eat a large proportion of their body weight in chocolate. <BR>
<BR>
Our poison center has seen a number of cases where 4-5 pound dogs ate a<BR>
pound or more of chocolate. This is, for me, on the order of eating<BR>
40-50 pounds of chocolate in a sitting. It would kill me too.<BR>
<BR>
Dogs are more susceptible as they metabolize the toxic ingredient<BR>
(theobromine) more slowly than humans do, so they maintain a higher<BR>
blood level of it longer. It is the very same enzyme system, btw, that<BR>
got Jim and Peta's dog into trouble, and almost killed mine one time<BR>
when she was given aome sulfonamide antibiotics, as they can cause acute<BR>
hemolytic anemia in susceptible animals (including a number of human<BR>
sub-populations).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In a previous career, I was a biochemist studying this very enzymatic<BR>
system (arylamino n-acetyl transferase, if you simply _must_ know).<BR>
<BR>
Dragging it back to Traveller, Vargr, due to their greater body mass,<BR>
are far less likely to be as susceptible to poisoning from these<BR>
compounds than dogs are. They won't for instance die, or even get sick<BR>
from eating a hershey bar. Unless of course it's a 25 pound hershey bar.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:23:25 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Jason T. Barnabas wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > You guys just aren't being creative enough.  I could think of a couple of<BR>
> > ways to do that.  =)<BR>
> ><BR>
> Hmm, just the "sweet young thing" I was thinking of.<BR>
> <BR>
Why thank you Jason!  Only you and Hiroshi would say so!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93!  Thou Art God tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:20:29 -0600<BR>
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr breeds<BR>
<BR>
So I would  fall over laughing when I met the Vargr Pekingese?<BR>
Lord, my pekes would love that thought :)<BR>
<BR>
TV<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 3:40 PM<BR>
Subject: Vargr breeds<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I'm pretty sure that all dog breeds in existence today can be traced back<BR>
>to a common ancestor, the wolf.<BR>
>Grandfather and his kids scarfed wolves from Earth some 300,000 years ago,<BR>
>I'm not sure, but this may be-pre-dog.<BR>
><BR>
>The non-canon, held in hostage, DGP book Cogs & Dogs goes into detail on<BR>
>some Vargr subspecies.  These include a larger breed that wouldn't think<BR>
>twice about taking on male Aslan in hand to hand, and a smaller breed with<BR>
>a higher instance of psionics.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
>urbin@bigfoot.com  Opinions stated are those of the author's dog...<BR>
>"Prairie dogging" - In companies where everyone has a cubicle, something<BR>
>happens and everyone pops up to look. http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:30:28 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Rat dogs!<BR>
<BR>
"Keven R. Pittsinger" wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> That *still* doesn't explain that velvet painting of the Vargr sitting around<BR>
>> playing poker.<BR>
And watching NFL Football....:) :)<BR>
<BR>
Then Black ICE responded:<BR>
> <BR>
> And is there any truth to the rumor that the Allied Powers in World War<BR>
> I employed Vargr mercenary pilots?<BR>
You'd have to ask their employer, Met Life.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:32:34 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
On 01/06/2000 14:51, Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> The way I like to put it is that JFK's error was closely analogous<BR>
> to a visitor to the US from Denmark saying "I am a Danish." Yes,<BR>
> it's incorrect. Yes, it's funny. Yes, the speaker's intent is<BR>
> understood.<BR>
<BR>
So what SHOULD JFK have stated in order to be linguistically correct?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:39:01 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1676<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-01-05 17:56:33 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< Suddenly, Loren's voice booms through the hallways.. "Pengiun Boy!  What<BR>
 are you doing here slacking?  Back to writing, you wretch!" *crack*<BR>
 - -- <BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
More like: "If you are late, you lose your bonus!"<BR>
<BR>
Loren<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 19:00:23 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Rat dogs! <BR>
<BR>
On 01/06/2000 14:18, Michel Vaillancourt wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
> "Heeere, Leezard, Leezard, Leezard....."<BR>
> <BR>
> "Ooopps.  I Tink I am going to need a beeger baux...."<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the Taco Hell Chihuahua reminds me of a 1982 one-hit wonder that I<BR>
always play at 85 mph or higher!:<BR>
<BR>
"I wish I was in Tijuana<BR>
 Eating Bar-B-Qued Iguana<BR>
 I hear the talking of the DJ,<BR>
 Can't understand JUST WHAT DOES HE SAY!<BR>
<BR>
"I'm on-a Mexican Radio!<BR>
 I'm on-a Mexican...wo-oh...Radio!"<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:19:45 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: It takes a Village<BR>
<BR>
At 16:56 -0500 6/1/00, "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Well, I notice that both the Solomani and the Zhodani are open and<BR>
> >honest about the existence of their plain clothes police unit (SolSec<BR>
> >and the Tvarchedl').<BR>
><BR>
>Isn't the Tavrchedl' more a psychiatric response unit than a plain-clothes<BR>
>police force?<BR>
<BR>
'Guardians of our Morality'? Well, everyone knows that they are there <BR>
looking for people who are unhappy... Arguably they are a psychiatric <BR>
response unit but they do act as internal agents.<BR>
<BR>
>I'd have put Toz'jabr (sp?) up for the title, myself. Well, the<BR>
>CIA/KGB/CHEKA school of secret police forces, anyway.<BR>
><BR>
>(Besides, Toz'jabr have a great sense of *style*.)<BR>
<BR>
I'd disagree - the 'Tozjabr' are focused externally, unlike the <BR>
Tavrchedl' or the Tavrchedl' Drianafl (the miltary side) so are more <BR>
spies and terror agents. They exist to do the morally questionable <BR>
things in Imperial space which the Tavrchedl' Drianafl would be <BR>
unhappy to do, if only because they may cause their operatives <BR>
distress.<BR>
<BR>
Dom (who increasingly likes the Consulate ;-) )<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:59:22 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: [BITS] Website Update 6 January 2000<BR>
<BR>
BITS - Britsh Isles Traveller Support<BR>
http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
<BR>
The BITS website has been updated to have a hypertext link on the <BR>
(non-frames) index page to allow users of software such as Lynx to <BR>
download the Millennium Special freebie adventure 'White Dwarf'. This <BR>
adventure will only remain for a few more days though, as we will be <BR>
removing it from the website.<BR>
<BR>
The adventure is in Acrobat format and somewhat tongue-in-cheek. <BR>
Frame capable browsers may find it on the archive page.<BR>
<BR>
Dom (BITS webmaster)<BR>
- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------<BR>
                  BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.<BR>
  http://www.bits.org.uk/              mailto:bits@bits.org.uk<BR>
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.<BR>
BITS and CORE are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:02:23 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Snob Schools<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> I've always wished there were more institutions of higher learning in the<BR>
> OTU, with a voice/presence, I mean.  What do we have?<BR>
> <BR>
>  - Kasiiga University on Vland<BR>
>  - The Jumpspace Institue on Deneb<BR>
>  - University of Regina<BR>
>  - University of Rhylanor<BR>
>  - Glisten Planetological Institute (?)<BR>
>  - Institute for System Studies on Alzenei (Sky Raiders trilogy)<BR>
>  - Imperial Academy of Science and Medicine<BR>
> <BR>
> ... anything else?  Most of these don't have a whole lot of character,<BR>
> ISTM; partly because, maybe, they're so far apart that they can't<BR>
> interact enough.  Expansions would be cool.  101 Schools?  I'd write for<BR>
> _that_.<BR>
<BR>
Yah, I think this lack is part of the "Mercenaries come first, the<BR>
Merchants second, and Scientists get a column in Supplement 4" bit <BR>
that's always bothered me in CT.  <BR>
<BR>
As a GM, I've used the trick of NPCs claiming to represent such an <BR>
institution that *doesn't actually exist* to trick them into doing <BR>
something illegal or improper. This could be construed as unfair - <BR>
how are the players supposed to know there's no such place? but if<BR>
you're careful to say "He says he's from the Foo Advanced Research <BR>
Institute in Corridor sector", the average citizen of the Spinward <BR>
Marches oughtn't have any clue. Of course, if the PCs should think<BR>
to do some homework, they'll find out the truth.<BR>
<BR>
I once started a (non-Traveller-specific) story about an Institute <BR>
of Juxtaposition, that existed only to study all the ways in which <BR>
two objects could be placed next to one another. It was some sorta<BR>
commentary on dry academia, or possibly just something that popped<BR>
into my head back when I did more drugs than I do now. Please feel<BR>
free to snag it for YTU or for _101 Schools_. <BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 22:54:00 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Voice of Reason (Solomani Version) <BR>
<BR>
> Try to dig up a copy of a book a friend gave me for Christmas about 10<BR>
> years back:<BR>
> <BR>
> "Chekisty: History of the KGB" (and it's predecessors...)<BR>
> <BR>
> When someone at work commented on it I merely smiled and said I was<BR>
> studying it for tips on administering the LAN. :-)<BR>
<BR>
It help any?<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 22:09:40 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Insurance <BR>
<BR>
> >When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed overnight<BR>
> >-- U.S. Air Force<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Assuming of course that they've got the right map this time....<BR>
<BR>
More correct than you'll ever know, Nick, me droogie...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 22:08:04 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Implications =) <BR>
<BR>
> > Must have been those 3 bottles of Quervo.  But I've got it here<BR>
> > *SOMEPLACE* on videotape...<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> And if not, try to hit Jesse up for some 3D models. A little "blurr" to<BR>
> distort any problem details nad there ya go! Instant video! Hum, now theres<BR>
> an adventure hook. PC's trying to recover (false or real) blackmail holo<BR>
> chrystal. Most of my old playerswould 'recover' it then use it them<BR>
> selves....<BR>
<BR>
That'll work.<BR>
<BR>
Now where can I get the Bozo the Samauri Clone suit to dress the Kenji figure <BR>
in?<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 19:29:19 -0500<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
Actually Glenn is correct in his post. I spent 4 years in Berlin in the mid<BR>
seventies. The locals used to tell us the story from time to time. Kennedy<BR>
should have dropped the "ein" and he would have been fine. Probably should<BR>
have let Jackie talk as she spoke like 7 or 8 languages.<BR>
<BR>
Thom<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:31 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > No offence, Chris, but I'm inclined to take the word of someone who<BR>
> > was born and raised there, took university-level courses in it on the<BR>
> > way to obtaining a teaching degree, then taught it in high school for<BR>
> > several years... :)<BR>
><BR>
> None taken! I've started tracking this one down, and I plan on hitting the<BR>
> local library for Monatshefte, Issue #85 for a detailed debunking by a<BR>
> native German speaker.<BR>
><BR>
> > (Besides, my mom is from southern Germany.)<BR>
><BR>
> This is what I was told by a German in Bergheim. Make of it what you will.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:31:00 -0500<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
We could always spot the pilots when they came into the bar, they had HUGE<BR>
watches, a big check book and a little p*@#er. Seriously, I seldom ever wore<BR>
my uniform or parts of it. I did tend to where a military style shirt and<BR>
heavy boots (or high top/camping/hiking sneakers) with blue jeans and a<BR>
leather jacket.<BR>
<BR>
Thom<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 4:59 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 06:08 pm 1/6/00 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
> >><BR>
> >>I strongly doubt that adventurers, whatever their prior<BR>
> >>service may be, go out drinking, go shopping, or go on dates<BR>
> >>wearing flight suits.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Well, adventurers may not, but real people do.<BR>
><BR>
> Please. If you've known any fighter pilots you'd know they're<BR>
> terrified somebody might not know they're a stud, so they wear the<BR>
> flightsuits *everywhere*.<BR>
><BR>
> -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
> in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
> random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 20:09:03 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Pete<BR>
><BR>
> Is it just me or did RAH's later books get kind of weird.<BR>
<BR>
Nah it's just you.<BR>
<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
> I sometimes  got the impression he was writing<BR>
> with one hand (if you get my drift.)<BR>
<BR>
Actually, RAH didn't use any hands to write.<BR>
<BR>
Remember the writer character Jubal Harshaw in Stranger in A Strange Land<BR>
with hot and cold running secretaries ?<BR>
<BR>
Well, it was nothing like that, his wife wouldn't let him.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 20:02:51 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: fashions (long)<BR>
<BR>
> >So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what<BR>
> >horse's Ass came up with it, you may be exactly right.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hey, guys, I just got this incredible sense of deja vu...<BR>
> <BR>
> Nick<BR>
> +++<BR>
> (Must be a glitch in the Matrix.)<BR>
<BR>
Follow the white rabbit...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 17:48:55 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Quicken for Mac<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:38:03 -0500, Robert Prior wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Definately off-topic, but hopefully it will make a change from flamewars...<BR>
> <BR>
> Does anyone have an old version of Quicken (for the Mac) that they would be<BR>
> willing to sell*?  I need version 7 (or maybe 98): something that will run<BR>
> on a 68030 processor with system 7.5.3 -- and Intuit only sells a version<BR>
> that requires most or my hard drive and a higher operating system than I<BR>
> can use.<BR>
> <BR>
> Why?  Because I've just discovered that my copy (version 4) is not fully<BR>
> Y2k compliant. (It appears to do everything correctly, but will only accept<BR>
> two digits for the year when reconciling accounts.)  I spent 20 minutes in<BR>
> the phone queue to Intuit Canada, only to be told I had two options: I<BR>
> could buy a new computer, or I could look for a graymarket copy.<BR>
> (Apparently 2 years is too long to support a product.)<BR>
> <BR>
> Ideally I'd like the Canadian version, but at this stage I'll take the US<BR>
> one. Or suggestions as to a better product: Intuit's customer service<BR>
> attitude has really pissed me off.<BR>
<BR>
I noticed the same thing with my copy of Quicken v5.0d for Windows... it<BR>
wouldn't display the date correctly, although everything seemed to work OK.<BR>
<BR>
> * Actually, given what the George at customer service told me, Intuit<BR>
> doesn't seem to care if I share someone else's copy of another version of<BR>
> Quicken. Although that may have just been his way of brushing me off.<BR>
<BR>
My solution was to borrow my old man's Quicken 99 until I could go out and<BR>
buy my own copy :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
http://members.home.net/jlindsay                    ICQ:#7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Clones are people two.<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1690<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1691</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	1/6/00 11:21:39 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, January 7 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1691<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
RE: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
Re: More letters from the front lines...<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
Re: Rat dogs!<BR>
Re: Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1684<BR>
Re: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
Re: OT: Quicken for Mac<BR>
Re: Rat dogs!<BR>
Battlestar Galactica<BR>
Re: Snob Schools (was: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
RE: Rat dogs!<BR>
Re: Military Insurance<BR>
RE: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
Re: DVDs and other storage media (was RE: There is one ...)<BR>
Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:42:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> [I will discuss only shipboard fashions in this post.]<BR>
><BR>
> " Temperature: The interior of a normal ship is about<BR>
> 25 degrees C [77 F]." - CT Sup. 7 Traders & Gunboats <BR>
> p. 7.<BR>
><BR>
> Given this bit of canon we need top ask what kind<BR>
> of clothes most people tend to wear when it is this<BR>
> temperature?<BR>
<BR>
At 77 degrees I and a number of people I know will be wearing as little<BR>
as we can get away with. Because it's way outside our "comfort zone".<BR>
<BR>
I don't know *where* they got that figure, but "standard" room temp is<BR>
more like 70F (21C). And 20C (68F) is often quoted as "normal".<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 20:14:24 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
<BR>
> There's a fish & chip shop near Stilton (near a  friend's  place)<BR>
> that sells Mars bars deep fried in cripy batter, does that count?<BR>
<BR>
There's several of them just down the road from here, though they tend to<BR>
use Moro instead of Mars<BR>
<BR>
They'll do anything deep-fried if you ask nicely.<BR>
<BR>
Aubergine, bananas, chocolate bananas, hell, they'll even fry fish that you<BR>
bring in yourself!<BR>
<BR>
Which reminds me of the guy who goes into a fish & chip shop run by a<BR>
monastery, points at the guy in the cassock in fron of the vat, and asks the<BR>
guy behind the till "Is that the fish friar ?"<BR>
<BR>
The guy behind the till sighs, and says "No, that's the chip monk"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Regards PLST<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 21:16:51 -0700<BR>
From: Bradley L Houston <brhoust@juno.com><BR>
Subject: Re: More letters from the front lines...<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> >"Woof woof arf ruff growwwf. Growl grr ruff woof. Woof woof<BR>
> >bark bark bark. Howwwwwwwl. Barkbark ruff. Arf woof growf.<BR>
> >Whine, whimper, whine, arf. Woof."<BR>
> <BR>
> Major John Roe, 798th Sylean Rangers, sighed, rubbed his muzzle, and <BR>
> turned<BR>
> to the assembled staff.<BR>
> <BR>
> "They're just barking at you.  trying to make you waste valuable <BR>
> time.<BR>
> Seem to have worked beautifully."<BR>
> -- <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Barking up the wrong K'kree?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:04:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> While practicality is a factor, it is certainly not the only factor, and it<BR>
> doesn't have to look much like practicality five, ten or a hundred years<BR>
> after the fact. In the United States, Cowboy hats, at one time, and among a<BR>
> select group, were *extremely* practical for a certain segment of the<BR>
> population. That segment of the population is, for the most part, extinct,<BR>
> but fans of country music, from the East Coast to the West Coast still wear<BR>
> the hats, even though they may not need to collect drinking water in the<BR>
> rain or keep the sun out of their eyes in the harsh desert.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, if you look at photos of *real* cowboys, most of them wore<BR>
something *considerably* different than what you'd expect. "Derby" or<BR>
"bowler" type hats were most common in the photos I've seen.<BR>
<BR>
> When I was a teenager, skinhead groups in my area were much more common than<BR>
> they are nowadays. I remember the day I learned to "read" boots. White laces<BR>
> in both boots meant you were white power, but white laces in oxblood colored<BR>
> boots meant you were a neo-nazi. Purple laces in your boots meant you<BR>
> listened to punk, but a purple lace in one boot and a white lace in the<BR>
> other meant that you were for punk / skin unity. A black lace in one boot<BR>
> and a white lace in the other identified you as a SHARP (that is, a<BR>
> Skin-Head Against Racial Prejudice). Two yellow laces meant, in some<BR>
> circles, that you had killed a member of a minority group. A pair of black<BR>
> laces meant nothing.<BR>
<BR>
> Wearing the wrong *laces* to the wrong party at the wrong warehouse could be<BR>
> a painful mistake. This isn't an indictment of such variations. During the<BR>
> 60s and 70s, when it became acceptable for men to sport a small earring in<BR>
> one ear, which ear you had it put in served as a signal of your sexuality. I<BR>
> think it was Doug who brought up the use of the red tie for a similar<BR>
> purpose in another thread. My apologies if I got the source wrong there.<BR>
<BR>
And there's the infamous "hanky code" which has been expanded to the<BR>
point it's more of a joke than a useful code. (Details available on<BR>
request). <BR>
<BR>
> To apply something like this to Traveller is also fascinating. Different<BR>
> factions of spacers could have slight variations in appearance which<BR>
> actually serve as a signal for something else. A really twisted GM with some<BR>
> free time could come up with really interesting combinations.<BR>
><BR>
> "No! For the third time tonight, I am *not* gay, I am *not* an advocate of<BR>
> Solomani-power, I am *not* in the Ine Giver and I have *never* eaten a<BR>
> K'Kree! Where the *hell* do you people get these ideas?"<BR>
<BR>
Yep, I know someone who kept wondering *why* no one asked them to<BR>
"play" at a dungeon party. When they asked, they were told "You're<BR>
wearing a collar. That means you're someone's pet, and shouldn't be<BR>
played with without asking your *owner's* permission. Since you are<BR>
here alone, there's no owner to ask."<BR>
<BR>
Likewise, if they'd worn the collar on their belt, it'd have meant they<BR>
were *looking for* a pet, not that they *were* a pet, looking for an<BR>
owner. <BR>
<BR>
> Still, these are just some of the more obvious things. I think that it's a<BR>
> big mistake to try to reduce "fashion" to some form of lowest common<BR>
> denominator, as some folks seem to want to do. Of *course* practicality is<BR>
> going to factor into it in subtle, and not so subtle ways. Just about<BR>
> everything else will too!<BR>
<BR>
I wish I had a copy of a post I saw once. It was an oldtime BDSMer<BR>
commenting on the way he'd *shocked* his neice and a couple of her<BR>
friends. He'd started laughing when they came in and took off thier<BR>
coats. He (quietly) explained to his brother, who started laughing too.<BR>
The girls *demanded* to know what was so funny. He looked at his<BR>
brother who told him to go ahead.<BR>
<BR>
Seems that the "fancy leather wrist straps" they were all wearing were<BR>
leather cock rings! The girls couldn't get them off fast enough... :-)<BR>
<BR>
It was *much* better the way he told it, but you still get the idea.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:29:08 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> > > these "insider" signals lose their meaning.<BR>
>> > ...or they're sometimes replaced by others.<BR>
>> > <BR>
>> Red ties anybody?<BR>
><BR>
> Huh?  What sort of frickin' sicko PERVERT would want to make it with a<BR>
> Harvard graduate?  <BR>
><BR>
> You people!  I'm disgusted beyond words.<BR>
><BR>
> Kenji<BR>
<BR>
Kenji, Most of the folks *I* have seen wearing red ties are also<BR>
wearing blue suits. It's the AmWay "uniform". <shudder><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:37:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>IIRC, Heinlein often had families on board spacecraft (where they could set<BR>
>>the temperature to whatever they wanted) wearing nothing at all.  I confess<BR>
>>to being intrigued as to the practicality of this as a teenager!<BR>
>><BR>
> Is it just me or did RAH's later books get kind of weird. I sometimes<BR>
> got the impression he was writing with one hand (if you get my drift.)<BR>
<BR>
Not really. If you can get hold of copies of *all* his SF & Fantasy<BR>
works, try this.<BR>
<BR>
First, seperate out all the "juveniles". Those *couldn't* have "sexual"<BR>
content, or even hint at it. <BR>
<BR>
Next, seperate out all the stuff that originally appeared in<BR>
Astounding. Editorial policy there was almost as restrictive. <BR>
<BR>
Now we have the stuff that appeared in "mainstream" magazines during<BR>
the 40s and 50s (mostly Future History stuff). It could hint a bit, but<BR>
that's about it. <BR>
<BR>
Now examine the rest. You'll find a *decided* amount of "sex" or at<BR>
least innuendo. <BR>
<BR>
It's more a case of the *market* changing than Heinlein changing.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:23:38 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Rat dogs!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> But come on, do you really want various DOG BREEDS represented amongst the<BR>
> Vargr?  Some shepherds and huskies might be cool but I personally do not<BR>
> even want to contemplate Poodle-Vargr, let alone Chihuahua Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand Chow-Vargr (to name but one) could be downright<BR>
*scary*. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:26:18 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> (Which reminds me to ask - does anyone have or know of a good<BR>
> description of just how information was encoded on the quipu knotted<BR>
> strings I've heard so much about?)<BR>
<BR>
That's the whole *point*. *NO ONE* now living knows how the info was<BR>
recorded, and I'd give long odds that we never will. That's because we<BR>
don't know what any of the surviving examples are supposed to record.<BR>
Thus, there's no way to "decode" them.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:33:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1684<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 1/6/00 9:47:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
><BR>
> << I'm really not offended by anything but hate crimes, abuse and the like. <BR>
>>><BR>
><BR>
> I'm pretty much offended by violent crime, hate or not. At the law school <BR>
> criminal law class was filled with the libs sharing why hate crimes were so <BR>
> much worse and needed more punishment...my pointing out that getting killed <BR>
> maimed robbed or raped sucked no matter what the reason you got chosen was. <BR>
<BR>
The thing about "hate crimes" is that they are *intended* to not merely<BR>
hurt the victim but to *terrorize* members of the "group" the victims<BR>
belongs to. <BR>
<BR>
Kill a person at random, and people in general will be a bit more<BR>
apprehensive than usual. Kill a <fitb>[1] and make it clear that they<BR>
were killed *because* they were a <fitb>, and "normal people aren't<BR>
worried much, while all <fitb>s are scared in direct proportion to how<BR>
easy it is to tell that they are <fitb>. Also, members of "small"<BR>
groups tend to be more frightened than members of large groups, simply<BR>
because the smaller the group, the fewer the targets. And hence the<BR>
greater the likeihood of any specific group member being targetted.<BR>
<BR>
> I also tried to compare the Sheppard murder to the girl in South<BR>
> Carolina who was also tortured and killed [for non-US members of the<BR>
> list, only straight whites are capable of hate crimes in most<BR>
> instances]<BR>
<BR>
Not true. But since "straight white males" are members of the majority,<BR>
they *are* the most likely to be the perps in crimes against<BR>
minorities. <BR>
<BR>
Sooner or latter we'll have a "hate crime" committed by women, or by<BR>
blacks. But sheer *numbers* makes this less likely.<BR>
<BR>
> Trav: PCs arrive on an Amber-for-internal-politics planet, and are scanned <BR>
> and issued cards when leaving the Starport zone. As they look around at <BR>
> someone with a higher class number on their card they are given a ticket for <BR>
> inappropriate staring hate crime [an actual hate crime here at the <BR>
> University, an offense against the free speech code].<BR>
<BR>
That's PC nonsense, not something that should be considered anything<BR>
like *real* hate crimes.<BR>
<BR>
> They then have their <BR>
> bag snatched by someone with a higher number, and the police refuse to act, <BR>
> as the other deserved the bag in recompense for X years of oppression.<BR>
<BR>
And this is *total* nonsense, as past oppresion doesn't obligate<BR>
present people to anything.<BR>
<BR>
Trust me, there really *are* hate crimes, and they have nothing to do<BR>
with the bad jokes some schools place the label on. <BR>
<BR>
Until you've watched people pushing for a law that they *claim* would<BR>
prevent "special rights" from a group you belong to but in reality<BR>
would *remove* a number of civil rights currently enjoyed by everyone<BR>
from your group, and have members of your group being beaten and killed<BR>
because they are members of the group, don't try to claim hate crimes<BR>
are no different from "random" beatings and murders. <BR>
<BR>
I know better. I've got the nightmares to prove it, and can dig up<BR>
enough "final solution" type comments from the more extreme folks<BR>
against us to show that there's a big difference. <BR>
<BR>
There are three types of violent crime:<BR>
1. crimes against people the perp knows, for "personal" reasons.<BR>
2. Crimes against "random" strangers, simply because they were handy or<BR>
   fit some twisted image. (serial killers, serial rapists)<BR>
3. Crimes against *specific* strangers, because they belong to or are<BR>
   perceived to belong to some identifiable "group". ("hate crimes")<BR>
<BR>
None are acceptable. But 2 terrorizes the general public, while 3<BR>
terrorizes the targeted group. And most of the time the perps of type 2<BR>
*don't* have any ulterior motive beyond their twisted urges. On the<BR>
other hand, the perps in type 3 crimes almost *always* have a primary<BR>
or secondary motive of scaring the group. <BR>
<BR>
*That* is why hate crimes deserve stronger penalties, just as "serial"<BR>
crimes deserve to have more resources dedicated to them than "normal"<BR>
crimes. <BR>
<BR>
[1] "fitb" = "fill in the blank" :-)<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:59:30 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Costuming/fashion RE: party???<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, David J. Golden wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> At 06:08 pm 1/6/00 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> >>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
>> >><BR>
>> >>I strongly doubt that adventurers, whatever their prior<BR>
>> >>service may be, go out drinking, go shopping, or go on dates<BR>
>> >>wearing flight suits.<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> >Well, adventurers may not, but real people do.<BR>
>> <BR>
>>       Please. If you've known any fighter pilots you'd know they're<BR>
>> terrified somebody might not know they're a stud, so they wear the<BR>
>> flightsuits *everywhere*.<BR>
>> <BR>
> It must be the bars I hang out in, I have NEVER seen a man come into a bar<BR>
> in his uniform.<BR>
><BR>
> Kiri  =)<BR>
><BR>
> and no, they're NOT all gay bars...<BR>
<BR>
Obviously not. Or you'd have encountered uniform fetishists. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:02:36 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Quicken for Mac<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Definately off-topic, but hopefully it will make a change from flamewars...<BR>
><BR>
> Does anyone have an old version of Quicken (for the Mac) that they would be<BR>
> willing to sell*?  I need version 7 (or maybe 98): something that will run<BR>
> on a 68030 processor with system 7.5.3 -- and Intuit only sells a version<BR>
> that requires most or my hard drive and a higher operating system than I<BR>
> can use.<BR>
><BR>
> Why?  Because I've just discovered that my copy (version 4) is not fully<BR>
> Y2k compliant. (It appears to do everything correctly, but will only accept<BR>
> two digits for the year when reconciling accounts.)  I spent 20 minutes in<BR>
> the phone queue to Intuit Canada, only to be told I had two options: I<BR>
> could buy a new computer, or I could look for a graymarket copy.<BR>
> (Apparently 2 years is too long to support a product.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Actually, according to posts I've seen on Fidonet, it'll work just<BR>
fine. But instead of typing "01/02/00" type "01/02'00". Apparently this<BR>
will get the 00 treated as 2000!<BR>
<BR>
Give it a try and let me know. It's reported as working on several<BR>
older PC versions.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 21:44:10 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Rat dogs!<BR>
<BR>
> But come on, do you really want various DOG BREEDS represented amongst the<BR>
> Vargr?  Some shepherds and huskies might be cool but I personally do not<BR>
> even want to contemplate Poodle-Vargr, let alone Chihuahua Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hmm. Punt Vargr. I like it. "Here doggie doggie. Come here 'lil corsair!"<BR>
<punt!> "Woo hoo! right across the room!"<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 21:05:33 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Battlestar Galactica<BR>
<BR>
All this discussion of the Cylons on Battlestar Galactica have reminded<BR>
me that Space, Canada's SF cable channel, is beginning to run that series<BR>
starting this coming Saturday at 6:00 pm Eastern, 4:00 pm Mountain...<BR>
but the channel is available only in Canada.<BR>
<BR>
- -- g<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:47:36 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Snob Schools (was: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
>... anything else?  Most of these don't have a whole lot of character,<BR>
>ISTM; partly because, maybe, they're so far apart that they can't<BR>
>interact enough.  Expansions would be cool.  101 Schools?  I'd write for<BR>
>_that_.<BR>
><BR>
>Kenji<BR>
<BR>
Well, seeing as the submissions for 101 Flightless Waterfowl aren't exactly<BR>
rolling in...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, if you want to write it up, I'll handle the editing and PDFing<BR>
for you.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 20:18:24 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Rat dogs!<BR>
<BR>
> "Keven R. Pittsinger" wrote:<BR>
> > > I immediately pictured a tavern being entered by the crew of a Vargr<BR>
> > > "trader" composed mainly of Shar-Pei Vargr and Mexican hairless<BR>
> > > (XOLOITZQUINTLE) Vargr.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > That *still* doesn't explain that velvet painting of the Vargr <BR>
> sitting around playing poker.<BR>
<BR>
You should see the ones with them all playing pool.<BR>
<BR>
> And is there any truth to the rumor that the Allied Powers in World War<BR>
> I employed Vargr mercenary pilots?<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but I refuse to believe that Snoopy is a Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
Lassie or Rin Tin Tin, maybe. <BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 22:07:12 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Insurance<BR>
<BR>
At 11:01 PM 1/6/00 -0000, you wrote:<BR>
>>When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed overnight<BR>
>>-- U.S. Air Force<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Assuming of course that they've got the right map this time....<BR>
><BR>
>NB<BR>
><BR>
        Ouch.<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 20:22:18 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Russell<BR>
> Bornschlegel<BR>
> In a desperate effort to avoid the RAH thread,<BR>
<BR>
Why would you want to do that ?<BR>
<BR>
TANSTAAFL!<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, got a bit of a cold.<BR>
<BR>
 has anyone else <BR>
> noticed that Niven is starting to read more like a dirty old man<BR>
> than he used to? Do other big-name science fiction writers get <BR>
> this way as they get older?<BR>
<BR>
I know I do.<BR>
<BR>
Oh sorry, you wanted _big-name_ science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
Well, John Norman steadily got worse<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
Oh sorry, you wanted  _science_fiction_ writers. <BR>
<BR>
Err...<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 20:42:45 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
>I mean, for heavens sake, you don't wear sunglasses in Japan unless you<BR>
>are a yakuza (or wish to be thought one).  As a large woman who tends to<BR>
>wear a leather jacket and is of mixed blood, I could probably scare people<BR>
>silly if I put on sunglasses!<BR>
<BR>
Swell. First I find out in an earlier post that sunglasses are not <BR>
considered appropriate for naturists, and now I find out that one <BR>
shouldn't wear sunglasses in Japan.<BR>
<BR>
Now, I have no plans to either become a naturist or visit Japan in the<BR>
foreseeable future, but I gotta ask... I have a sensitivity to sunlight<BR>
such that I don't dare venture outside by day without sunglasses on.<BR>
Anything brighter than a heavy overcast is uncomfortable, and in full<BR>
direct sunlight I can't see at all. In a case like that, what would I<BR>
do? <BR>
<BR>
(Yeah, yeah, I know. Don't visit a naturist resort, and be prepared to <BR>
be taken for a gangster in Japan -- with my height and build, they'd<BR>
probably think I was some sort of hitman or a serial killer or something.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- g<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 20:50:43 -0700<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
>> Is it just me or did RAH's later books get kind of weird. I sometimes<BR>
>> got the impression he was writing with one hand (if you get my drift.)<BR>
><BR>
>It wasn't just you.<BR>
><BR>
>In a desperate effort to avoid the RAH thread, has anyone else <BR>
>noticed that Niven is starting to read more like a dirty old man<BR>
>than he used to? Do other big-name science fiction writers get <BR>
>this way as they get older?<BR>
<BR>
I was going to suggest Isaac Asimov as an example of one who didn't<BR>
- -- then I remember his published works include the book Lecherous<BR>
Limericks and its two sequels as well as the book The Sensuous Dirty<BR>
Old Man.<BR>
<BR>
In defence of RAH, though, he did suffer a stroke during the period<BR>
that he was writing The Number Of The Beast, and you can almost tell<BR>
where in the book he was when it happened, as the book abruptly changes<BR>
direction at that point. It was in TNOTB that he first started writing<BR>
with lots of weird sex, a trend which continued in his novels thereafter<BR>
(especially those featuring Lazarus Long and family)...<BR>
<BR>
- -- g<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 02:47:32 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/06/2000 17:18, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> On 01/06/00 at 04:17 PM,  "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
said:<BR>
><BR>
<snip><BR>
>> There's a fish & chip shop near Stilton (near a  friend's  place) that<BR>
>> sells Mars bars deep fried in cripy batter, does that count?<BR>
><BR>
> Now that's just sick! <g><BR>
><BR>
> Actually, it sounds good, I'll have to try it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I believe it is somewhat of a delicacy among northern barbari^H^H^H errr...<BR>
Scots.... <g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond<BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 02:43:39 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media (was RE: There is one ...)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jason T. Barnabas <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
>Of course with the progress that has been made with<BR>
>RAM, this point might become moot.  If you could store<BR>
>several Gb of RAM in something the size of a match<BR>
>head and can interface hundreds of those, what with<BR>
>RAM that doesn't need power to retain memory, who<BR>
>needs off-line storage?<BR>
>--<BR>
>Jason<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Archivists, Libraries, Lawyers, Historians, etc etc.<BR>
<BR>
Ram can be easily altered, you may still want a permanent (well, as long as<BR>
the storage medium lasts anyway) and definitive record.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond<BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:14:00 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/6/00 3:49:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
kaleja@estarcion.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
>  In a desperate effort to avoid the RAH thread, has anyone else <BR>
>  noticed that Niven is starting to read more like a dirty old man<BR>
>  than he used to? Do other big-name science fiction writers get <BR>
>  this way as they get older?<BR>
<BR>
Not really.  I haven't noticed it with Clarke or Anderson, for example.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, as I understand it Niven has always been a bit, um,<BR>
uninhibited.  (Look at the way he's portrayed in self-referential books<BR>
like _Footfall_.)  Now he's just getting older to boot.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1691<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1692</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, January 7 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1692<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: DVDs and other storage media (was RE: There is one ...)<BR>
Re: Tastes Like Chicken (was Re: Traveller Digest #n)<BR>
Re: SJG bashing<BR>
Frea Speach (was: Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com>)<BR>
Re: fashions (long)<BR>
Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: DVDs and other storage media (was RE: There is one ...)<BR>
Re: Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
101 Schools - What's Needed?<BR>
Documentation on Vargr Merc Pilots (was: Re: Rat dogs!)<BR>
Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
[deckplans] Free Trader plans<BR>
Re: Snob Schools<BR>
Snob Schools<BR>
Re Towels<BR>
[none]<BR>
[none]<BR>
World Builder Deluxe<BR>
Lawyers<BR>
RE: Tech Levels<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: Terrorism Threats<BR>
Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
Re: Threats to kill <BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:36:28 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media (was RE: There is one ...)<BR>
<BR>
On 01/06/2000 18:10, Jason T. Barnabas wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Hmm, even a CD as small as a dime would be usable if<BR>
> it was used in a slide out loader (like current computer<BR>
> CD readers use); however, they could be made even<BR>
> smaller if the reader was not built into the machine.  For<BR>
> example, let's say you went down to say 4 or 5 mm<BR>
> diameter and stacked them say 20 tall with their readers<BR>
> into something the size of an unfiltered king size<BR>
> cigarette.  Then you could handle the combined unit with<BR>
> ease.  You would then be able to use as many of these<BR>
> combos as are needed to store as much information as<BR>
> is needed for any data processing application.<BR>
> <BR>
> Of course with the progress that has been made with<BR>
> RAM, this point might become moot.  If you could store<BR>
> several Gb of RAM in something the size of a match<BR>
> head and can interface hundreds of those, what with<BR>
> RAM that doesn't need power to retain memory, who<BR>
> needs off-line storage?<BR>
<BR>
This is what they call a "Globalink" or "Global" for short...from Gene<BR>
Roddenberry's Earth:Final Conflict.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 19:30:32 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Tastes Like Chicken (was Re: Traveller Digest #n)<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:17:32 -0500 (EST), Glenn St-Germain<BR>
<cos90@powersurfr.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Reminds me of a fantasy campaign (GURPS) that I was in some years ago. One<BR>
>of the players was playing (as the team brick) a Lizard-Man. (Built with<BR>
>the same 100-point total as the rest of us.) His best one-liner:<BR>
<BR>
>"I like these white birds you humans eat. They taste just like snake."<BR>
<BR>
My father used to travel quite a bit for the company that<BR>
excessed him.  Some of this travel was up to "the unacknowledged<BR>
states" (you know, the ones between Alaska and the 49th<BR>
parallel).  Once, he was taken to dinner by some of the<BR>
customers.  They went to a restaurant that specialized in game<BR>
meats.  The waiter suggested the bear; my father, whose<BR>
experience with game meats is limited to venison, asked what it<BR>
tasted like.  One of the other members of the party responded<BR>
"Oh, pretty close to moose.".<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 19:30:31 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:31:08 -0500 (EST), Richard Wilson<BR>
<rtwilson@rollanet.org> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>At 04:26 PM 1/2/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Even the Microsoft-bashers don't stoop so low as to base their<BR>
>>opinion of MS on the _users_ of MS products. <BR>
<BR>
>Would I be in trouble then for basing my opinion of AOL on the users of<BR>
>AOL? (No offense meant Seth kimmel, Loren or any one else I may have<BR>
>forgotten)<BR>
<BR>
If you draw your conclusions about AOL the service or AOL the<BR>
corporation based on the habits of the _users_ of AOL, there's a<BR>
bit of a problem.  If you draw your conclusions about the _users_<BR>
of AOL, that's OK.  IOW, "AOL sucks" is not an appropriate<BR>
conclusion to draw based on the fact that a large proportion of<BR>
AOL users are clueless, or whiny pimply teenagers who haven't<BR>
discovered ... ummm ... autoeroticism, much less that there are<BR>
people out there ... with complementary plumbing, let us say.<BR>
OTOH, "AOL doesn't care about the spam problem" would be a<BR>
reasonable conclusion to draw based on the sheer number of<BR>
spammers that use the service, apparently without risk to their<BR>
access - in spite of anything AOL may say.  See the difference?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 19:30:26 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Frea Speach (was: Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com>)<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:31:08 -0500 (EST), "The Roc"<BR>
<roc@kewl.com.au> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>PS:  OT Obs for further self-education; Don't you guys have a "Right to free<BR>
>speech" thing in your constitution?  Does it cover things like this?<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it doesn't - this is a private forum, and the<BR>
Constitution covers what the government and certain "public<BR>
accommodations" may do.  More, this is an international mailing<BR>
list; it seems to me to be quite arrogant to assume that U.S. law<BR>
applies in an international forum.<BR>
<BR>
The "Free Speech" argument (often misspelled as "Free Speach",<BR>
and further parodied as I did in the subject line) frequently<BR>
makes its appearance on Usenet, usually over the byline of some<BR>
jerk who is, if possible, more offensive and annoying than Clif<BR>
and Legate combined - and who's just been told in no uncertain<BR>
terms to go stuff, or who has recently lost an internet account<BR>
because of net-abuse.  It is invariably, inevitably, quickly, and<BR>
correctly slapped down.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 21:02:18 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions (long)<BR>
<BR>
Well, there goes my idea for a new vargr-killing gun, the CGMP-15.<BR>
(chocolate gun, Man-portable)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 6:24 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: fashions (long)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Dragging it back to Traveller, Vargr, due to their greater body mass,<BR>
> are far less likely to be as susceptible to poisoning from these<BR>
> compounds than dogs are. They won't for instance die, or even get sick<BR>
> from eating a hershey bar. Unless of course it's a 25 pound hershey bar.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:24:04 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
>Now, I have no plans to either become a naturist or visit Japan in the<BR>
>foreseeable future, but I gotta ask... I have a sensitivity to sunlight<BR>
>such that I don't dare venture outside by day without sunglasses on.<BR>
>Anything brighter than a heavy overcast is uncomfortable, and in full<BR>
>direct sunlight I can't see at all. In a case like that, what would I<BR>
>do?<BR>
>     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada<BR>
<BR>
    Are you an asthmatic? It may be your medication.<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:30:40 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media (was RE: There is one ...)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jason T. Barnabas <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 6:16 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: DVDs and other storage media (was RE: There is one ...)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Joseph R. Dietrich <yikes@evansville.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Of course with the progress that has been made with<BR>
>RAM, this point might become moot.  If you could store<BR>
>several Gb of RAM in something the size of a match<BR>
>head and can interface hundreds of those, what with<BR>
>RAM that doesn't need power to retain memory, who<BR>
>needs off-line storage?<BR>
>--<BR>
>Jason<BR>
<BR>
off line storage is for exchanging information and achives and safety<BR>
if there is a fire in the building that the computer is in and there was no<BR>
offline and offsite storage all the work would be lost. On the same note<BR>
there isn't an 3i wide computer network that is capable of handling large<BR>
amounts of data. A modern example of this would be a CD ROM verse sending<BR>
something over the internet. YEA it can be done but why when the size of the<BR>
file is uncomfortable to handle and the mail will get it there as safely.<BR>
Also on the subject of computer networks.. as the networks get better the<BR>
hackers will too.. and they will figure a way to compremise the sending and<BR>
recieving of large files to be benifetal for themselfs..<BR>
so that's who needs off line storeage.<BR>
<BR>
any one who wants an off site back up<BR>
any one who wants convenices<BR>
or security freaks.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 02:24:57 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Subject: Tech Level 2 and printing<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> That's the whole *point*. *NO ONE* now living knows how the info<BR>
> was recorded, and I'd give long odds that we never will. That's<BR>
> because we don't know what any of the surviving examples are<BR>
> supposed to record. Thus, there's no way to "decode" them.<BR>
<BR>
You're right, folks today don't know the specifics of reading surviving<BR>
examples, which is why I was vague in specifics. However, the Spanish did<BR>
record information on how the quipu readers read them and what sort of<BR>
records were kept with them.<BR>
<BR>
That's one of the big problems with mnemonic aids. You can only acquire<BR>
information from them if they're kept within a specific context and a<BR>
specific tradition and specific people are alive and willing to work with<BR>
you.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 19:15:03 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: 101 Schools - What's Needed?<BR>
<BR>
What information do you folks think would be needed to present an<BR>
institution of higher learning (as something other than the focus of an<BR>
adventure)?<BR>
<BR>
I can see the following information as necessary:<BR>
<BR>
Name of the School<BR>
Location (minimum of world; city and region on that world would be even<BR>
better)<BR>
Tech Level<BR>
Is the school public (in the American sense) or private?<BR>
Degree programs<BR>
Number of students/faculty<BR>
Noteworthy departments (is the school, for instance, reknowned for its<BR>
History department?)<BR>
Admission requirements (Ex: Edu +2D > target number, modified by Soc in<BR>
some way)<BR>
Tuition (annual cost; are scholarships available?)<BR>
Key NPCs:  Chancellor, Deans of at least some of the colleges,<BR>
Department heads, etc.<BR>
Key locations (where do students hang out off-campus, for instance?)<BR>
<BR>
What other information would be required?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 17:59:02 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Documentation on Vargr Merc Pilots (was: Re: Rat dogs!)<BR>
<BR>
I've found some documentation on the Allied practice in WW I of<BR>
employing Vargr mercenary pilots.<BR>
<BR>
See:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.headstartcaps.com/3113red.htm<BR>
<BR>
for a picture of the Vargr squadron's organizational headgear, and<BR>
<BR>
http://hermes.ulaval.ca/~residjet/lyrics/royalguardsmen.htm<BR>
<BR>
for an account of the Vargrs' most noted aerial combat.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:27:54 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Frank G. Pitt <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Friday, 7 January 2000 6:21<BR>
Subject: RE: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Russell<BR>
>> Bornschlegel<BR>
>> In a desperate effort to avoid the RAH thread,<BR>
><BR>
>Why would you want to do that ?<BR>
><BR>
>TANSTAAFL!<BR>
>Sorry, got a bit of a cold.<BR>
<BR>
    Isn't that a settlement on Aurore? Woops, wrong Traveller!<BR>
    Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 04:42:09 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: [deckplans] Free Trader plans<BR>
<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
In response to recent discussions on the TML, I've done a quick rendering of <BR>
the old Judges Guild Free Trader (called the "Guilder" for my purposes). <BR>
Visit:<BR>
<BR>
http://member.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html<BR>
<BR>
 and check the New Stuff links for the (still rather rough) page.<BR>
<BR>
 This thing is close to the right size for a 200-ton Free Trader, but the <BR>
layout needs work. Given the gumption I'll work it over, but it'll do for <BR>
now...<BR>
<BR>
 Given that JG is alive once more, and that I'm using the world's most <BR>
wonderful ISP for hosting, this file may be subject to removal at very short <BR>
notice.  You have been warned.<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:30:51 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Snob Schools<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Kenji posted:<BR>
> - Glisten Planetological Institute (?)<BR>
<BR>
Glisten Institute of Planetological Studies (GLIPS).<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, the instigators of the 400t Scotian Deep-class Type A3 Deep Trader,<BR>
externally identical to the Fat Trader (and yet to be HTML'ed onto the web site<BR>
:-(  ).<BR>
<BR>
>Imperial Academy of Science and Medicine<BR>
<BR>
Ivan Brunel, designer of Beowulf Down, is a graduate of IASM Lanth...<BR>
<BR>
BTW, you forgot the University of Trantor^k^k^k^k^k^k^k Sylea.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:37:11 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Snob Schools<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Kenji also said:<BR>
>101 Schools?  I'd write for _that_.<BR>
<BR>
This isn't a bad idea, if you expand it to _101 Organisations_. _Challenge_ had<BR>
a bunch of these sort of articles for _Traveller: 2300_, right down to their<BR>
patches, IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, another is the Rhylanor Institute of Technology.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and the Shudusham Institute. And the AAB. And who was that mob that explored<BR>
the depths of a gas giant (can't get to my Libdata here)? There's got to be<BR>
_lots_ more, perhaps I'll have to add another index page. Or maybe I already<BR>
did?<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:32:01 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Towels<BR>
<BR>
>As for the towel carrying, is this where Douglas Adams got his idea for the<BR>
>"towel" being the most important item in a Hitchhiker's bag of tricks?<BR>
>(hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)<BR>
<BR>
If nothing else, a nice large beach towel makes a passable kilt, or a<BR>
turban, or  two can be a tunic for all but the largest. Deep terry also<BR>
makes it a good light blanket. Or, whe folded, a pillow. Plus, with two<BR>
towels, and two poles, you can make a stretcher. Douglas Adams didn't even<BR>
really begin to look at how useful the bloody thing REALLY is. Oh, yeah,<BR>
Towels make passable bandaging material as well.<BR>
<BR>
Now I know something I have to add to the marine BD IMTU: A 2L canister for<BR>
a really large, Maroon with black trim, unit-crested 2mx1m deep terry<BR>
TOWEL. WHy the unit crest? so it can double as a replacement standard in<BR>
case one is needed in a hurry! Besides, if  guy bites it, after the battle,<BR>
you pop his towel, drape it over his faceplate, and they know which unit's<BR>
mortician gets him.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:43:57 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>>(Which reminds me to ask - does anyone have or know of a good description<BR>
>of just<BR>
>>how information was encoded on the quipu knotted strings I've heard so much<BR>
>about?)<BR>
><BR>
>  If you mean "can we read them", the answer was a definitive no as late as<BR>
>18 months ago; the last organization to use them was perhaps the Inca hold-<BR>
>outs in southern Chile, so about 1550 or so?<BR>
<BR>
>  Apparently the patterns indicated info, although I don't know if we're sure<BR>
>whether the records themselves indicated the type of data they stored, or if<BR>
>that was dependent on externals (like what pigeon-hole it was stored in).<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I've seen on Discovery CHannell that certain tribes in the andes still use<BR>
Quipu. The question of whether it is the SAME encoding is rather difficult<BR>
to tell, since observers are still not in on the secrets of the current<BR>
useage quipu encoding. The show in question was one of Discovery's cultural<BR>
vidoe monographs, and the tribe was re-building a rope bridge across a<BR>
chasm. The quipu were used to track who'd contributed and how much labor<BR>
they'd done, and how much to pay each family.<BR>
<BR>
What is known about the current quipu is that color, position, knot type<BR>
all have significance.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:24:28 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>> >How about societies that never develop writing.  What TL could be reached<BR>
>> >based on an oral tradition?  I would think maybe TL4.<BR>
>><BR>
>> I don't think so.. just about every culture that advanced out of the stone<BR>
>> age has developed writing.  It might be one of those vital links that<BR>
>> allows the culture to step up another notch.<BR>
><BR>
One other method of note: A bardic tradition (in the celtic sense, not the<BR>
french), where history, etc is set to music, and memorized that way.<BR>
<BR>
>It might become more possible if they are psionic; allowing for greater<BR>
>possibility of retention and transfer of complex concepts.<BR>
><BR>
>Also, there's a difference between writing and printing.  Printing allows<BR>
>literacy and mass linearity of thought.  You might be able to get to quite a<BR>
>high tech level without literacy and an elite class maintaining and<BR>
>retaining technical knowledge, with the workers doing a limited set of jobs<BR>
>by rote.  (Egad!  Did I just describe a Fuedal Technocracy?)<BR>
><BR>
Sounds like an FT to me (but not the only type of FT). And, let us not<BR>
forget that literacy was apparently fairly common in greece, rome, and in<BR>
egypt, even tho' there was no printing... most could read, a few could<BR>
afford to write, and most buildings had inscriptions. Heck, some egyptian<BR>
buildings way as well be novels!<BR>
<BR>
I like the idea of a college of musicians, who trains the general populace,<BR>
and specialists therein who keep the oral traditions in song of the<BR>
accumulated knowledge of a given guild. Operations by rote learning, tho<BR>
not of need rote execution, no need even for a written language!<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:45:56 -0700<BR>
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com><BR>
Subject: World Builder Deluxe<BR>
<BR>
I've just installed the latest version of World Builder Deluxe, and I am<BR>
awestruck by the robustness of this program! This will save me SO much<BR>
time in pre-session preparation. And now it has maps! Maps, I tell you!<BR>
<BR>
*sound of me dropping to my knees and prostrating myself before Stuart*<BR>
I'm not worthy!<BR>
I'm not worthy!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Erwin Fritz<BR>
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.<BR>
http://www.glja.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:07:44 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Lawyers<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Can someone please tell me who said the following:<BR>
"Cease-and-desist letters are a lawyer's way of saying hello."<BR>
<BR>
(It may have been one of the Glenn's)<BR>
<BR>
I'd like to add it to my taglines page.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:39:38 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Tech Levels<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Peter replied to Eris thus:<BR>
>> Hey, we *could* build them...if only we knew how. <g><BR>
><BR>
>Exactly.  People keep  confusing  TL  (production  ability)  with<BR>
>'science level' and inventiveness.<BR>
<BR>
So, to restart the annual "the stark TL in the UPP doesn't cover everything",<BR>
should we expand DGP's already expanded TL system to include production<BR>
capability vs inventiveness?<BR>
<BR>
From memory, their system didn't *quite* include this, it was more of a<BR>
breakdown per area of interest (power, transportation, etc). Or should we say<BR>
that the breakdown represents the prod'n capability, and merely add one digit<BR>
for knowledge/inventiveness? This way you could flesh out a low pop, high-tech<BR>
on an airless moon - their gear is high-TL, but it's all imported. Their<BR>
manufacturing capability may be virtually zero.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:28:23 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
Thu, 6 Jan 2000 07:12:00 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
<BR>
>The Imperium (and it's predecessors) has been in space for a long time. A<BR>
>LONG time. Longer, practically, than us monkeyfolk have been doing<BR>
>elementary things like writing and building large regular solids out<BR>
>of big blocks...<BR>
><BR>
>I suspect they'll have solved problems like loose hairs, pencil shavings,<BR>
>and vaccsuit seals by then. I suspect, in fact, that they'll have<BR>
>forgotten it was even a problem, ever.<BR>
><BR>
>Hair fashion will be dictated by exactly that: fashion. Only rarely has it<BR>
>been dictated by function, if ever.<BR>
<BR>
Exactly.<BR>
<BR>
Additionally, one has to remember that mere "convience" is not enough.  How<BR>
many people in the USA today shave their heads becuase it is convenient in<BR>
an occupation?  Very few.<BR>
<BR>
In Traveller people are going, whether it is convient or not, wear their<BR>
hair as society dictates, as meets their desires, etc.  Specialized groups<BR>
aren't going to shave their head unless they want to, in fact, do it to<BR>
stand out, etc.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:58:42 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
Hehe What can I say?  I have an infinite amount of penguins on typewriters<BR>
writing this stuff for me.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Terry Mixon" <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:06 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Well, now you went and did it. I was just fine up until that<BR>
> last bit. The peanut butter and banana business did me in.<BR>
> Go ahead and see if you can goad me into making threats by<BR>
> telling me they are fried. <g><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:14:09 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
<BR>
Good God man, are you serious?!<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:22 PM<BR>
Subject: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
> > To me, hating homosexuals makes about as much sense as hating<BR>
> > people who put bananas on their peanut butter sandwiches in<BR>
> > lieu of using jelly.<BR>
> <BR>
> There's a fish & chip shop near Stilton (near a  friend's  place)<BR>
> that sells Mars bars deep fried in cripy batter, does that count?<BR>
> <BR>
> Regards PLST<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:45:44 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Threats to kill <BR>
<BR>
hehehe Kevin gets a solid 2!  :)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 1:33 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Threats to kill<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > * Sorry, Kenji. Couldn't resist that. What is it that you're claiming<BR>
to be<BR>
> > > today?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Strephon.<BR>
><BR>
> What you gonna do about the bullet holes?<BR>
><BR>
> And while you're at it, stop all this cloning around already...<BR>
><BR>
> Keven<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- ----<BR>
>                                                      Science-Fiction<BR>
Adventure<BR>
>                                                      In Reavers' Deep<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1692<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1693</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, January 7 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1693<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Lasers<BR>
Re: Rat dogs! <BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: OT: Quicken for Mac<BR>
RE: fashions<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1684<BR>
GT:IN Play Test<BR>
Temps...<BR>
Re: Weird food...<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial...<BR>
Re: Miniature's fashions<BR>
Re: fashions...<BR>
1st...<BR>
Re: Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
Re: Impie Snob Schools <BR>
Re: Weird food<BR>
Re BITS Millenium Adv.<BR>
Re Fashion & Red Ties<BR>
Re: GT: Imperial Navy Playtest Suspended<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:22:11 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Lasers<BR>
<BR>
Technopagan Blessing for a new HeNe Laser<BR>
<BR>
I call upon the the ancient explosion that caused the helium<BR>
I call upon the burning stars that gave rise to the neon<BR>
I call upon the the Goddess, bringer of nature, bringer of technology,<BR>
    mistress of quantum physics, and spirit of circuitry<BR>
<BR>
Blessed be this helium neon laser<BR>
May it deliver a bright, coherent, TM00 beam for many years<BR>
May it not outgas nor be dropped before its time.<BR>
May it cause great joy and contentment in those who play with its beam,<BR>
May it be used only for metrology in her name, and harm none.<BR>
<BR>
Blessed be also this power supply<BR>
May its high voltage terminals never be applied to living flesh<BR>
May it long apply the voltage and current required to start the tube<BR>
May it run long, warm, and strong, like an antelope on the plain.<BR>
<BR>
Let its coherent beam show us the path.<BR>
Let us remember to be like the beam; brilliant, directed, and colorful.<BR>
<BR>
(All)<BR>
<BR>
Blessed be this new laser,<BR>
Blessed be, and rave on!<BR>
<BR>
[Fire up the tube]<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:26:03 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Rat dogs! <BR>
<BR>
Cool song!  "Mexican Radio" by Wall of Voodoo.  I always got a kick out of<BR>
the video.  :)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:00 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Rat dogs!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On 01/06/2000 14:18, Michel Vaillancourt wrote:<BR>
> >><BR>
> > "Heeere, Leezard, Leezard, Leezard....."<BR>
> ><BR>
> > "Ooopps.  I Tink I am going to need a beeger baux...."<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, the Taco Hell Chihuahua reminds me of a 1982 one-hit wonder that<BR>
I<BR>
> always play at 85 mph or higher!:<BR>
><BR>
> "I wish I was in Tijuana<BR>
>  Eating Bar-B-Qued Iguana<BR>
>  I hear the talking of the DJ,<BR>
>  Can't understand JUST WHAT DOES HE SAY!<BR>
><BR>
> "I'm on-a Mexican Radio!<BR>
>  I'm on-a Mexican...wo-oh...Radio!"<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
> Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:04:14 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
You pegged another pet-peeve of mine : liking a person based on their<BR>
appearance.  People tend to forget what we have little choice in the bodies<BR>
God gave us.  If we aren't like the "hunks" or "babes" that doesn't mean we<BR>
don't deserve the same love and happiness everyone else gets.  American<BR>
media is really bad about this body stereotyping but it's such a crock.<BR>
<BR>
Would people still be doing this stuff in a community as varied as the 3rd<BR>
Imperium?<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:22 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
.<BR>
><BR>
> Of course people with high standards, specific interests, and/or<BR>
> body shapes deemed currently unfashionable have to wait longer to find<BR>
> what they want.  But that's always been true.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:11:58 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Quicken for Mac<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:38:03 -0500<BR>
>From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
>Subject: OT: Quicken for Mac<BR>
><BR>
>Definately off-topic, but hopefully it will make a change from flamewars...<BR>
><BR>
>Does anyone have an old version of Quicken (for the Mac) that they would be<BR>
>willing to sell*?  I need version 7 (or maybe 98): something that will run<BR>
>on a 68030 processor with system 7.5.3 -- and Intuit only sells a version<BR>
>that requires most or my hard drive and a higher operating system than I<BR>
>can use.<BR>
<BR>
I havea copy of Quicken 98 I _might_ not need since they sent<BR>
me a free Quicken 2000 upgrade for Y2K compliance to my Quicken<BR>
Credit card (which, ironically, I never use).  However, I would<BR>
want to install it and make sure it works fine before I give<BR>
up the old one.  I also only have the CD (no manual or anything,<BR>
it was a free upgrade itself).<BR>
<BR>
If you can't find a better deal, let me know....<BR>
<BR>
>Ideally I'd like the Canadian version, but at this stage I'll take the US<BR>
>one. Or suggestions as to a better product: Intuit's customer service<BR>
>attitude has really pissed me off.<BR>
<BR>
There attitude toward support (making you pay a long distance charge<BR>
or pay for support) pisses me off, but then they sent me free upgrade<BR>
for Y2K compliance, so I have mixed feelings.<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:59:51 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
> [I will discuss only shipboard fashions in this post.]<BR>
><BR>
> " Temperature: The interior of a normal ship is about<BR>
> 25 degrees C [77 F]." - CT Sup. 7 Traders & Gunboats<BR>
> p. 7.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
> The notion that "one size fits most" may work<BR>
> with shirts but sure does not work with jumpsuits.<BR>
<BR>
You obviously haven't been in the air force.<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
> I assumed that most (non free traders) merchant<BR>
> lines tend to have uniforms which somewhat<BR>
> resemble those seen on cruise ships (see The<BR>
> Love Boat TV show for an example), in colors<BR>
> varying by lines.<BR>
<BR>
Only where they have passengers, and possibly for the officers.<BR>
You ever seen a crew from a terrestrial freighter ?<BR>
<BR>
And I won't even talk about fishing boat crews...<BR>
<BR>
> I assume Engineers and Maintenance personnel, who<BR>
> tend to get dirtier than other ships crew are<BR>
> likely to wear coveralls but I envision something<BR>
> more like what house painters wear than to a pair<BR>
> of coveralls<BR>
<BR>
In 25 degrees, they'll only wear coveralls where protection from corrosive<BR>
fluids and such is required. Probably light weight disposable/recyclable<BR>
"paper-like" ones, like the alkali-proof ones I used to wear in the aircraft<BR>
battery room.<BR>
<BR>
They'll wear shorts & tee-shirts for most work if regulations permit.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 19:24:00 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1684<BR>
<BR>
> I also tried to compare the Sheppard murder to the girl in South<BR>
> Carolina who<BR>
> was also tortured and killed [for non-US members of the list,<BR>
> only straight<BR>
> whites are capable of hate crimes in most instances]<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, so someone inspired by Louis Farrakhan to gou out and beat on Whitey is<BR>
not commmitting a hate crime ?<BR>
<BR>
> I pointed out that the libs demanded that the murderer on<BR>
> active duty not be subject to the UCMJ, as<BR>
> he would have most likely got the big award from them,<BR>
> and rather be tried by a local SC jury<BR>
<BR>
As ex-military, the reason that servicemen get tried in civilian courts when<BR>
they commit crimes agaist civilians is so that the serviceman is not seen to<BR>
be treated differently than civilians in the same area.<BR>
<BR>
This is to satisfy those who think a military court might be lenient on the<BR>
accused, and so there are no repeats of what sometimes used to happen in<BR>
these circumstances, the serviceman being transferred elsewhwere before the<BR>
local law could do anything about it, and the local military refusing to say<BR>
where because it was militarily sensitive.<BR>
<BR>
Of course this still happens sometimes, such as the serviceman who the US<BR>
refused to handi over to the Japanese after he killed a Japanese girl a few<BR>
years back.<BR>
<BR>
The other thing is that under military law you are guilty until proven<BR>
innocent.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 22:22:53 -0600<BR>
From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com><BR>
Subject: GT:IN Play Test<BR>
<BR>
Just out of curiosity, for those who are also on the SJG boards, doesn't it<BR>
feel slightly like the IN manuscript got euthenized (sp? OK, Dr. K'd) a<BR>
smidgen quickly? I don't know any of the higher ups thinking on it - much<BR>
less yours LKW - but still - compared, say, to SM it seemed like a pretty<BR>
good book to me with a reasonable CT feel. Was I just being silly?<BR>
<BR>
Yes I'm bring it up here first and not there. I'd rather have some idea if<BR>
I'm being stupid or not before shoving my nose into a real bee's hive... :><BR>
<BR>
William<BR>
- -- <BR>
Live without fear; your Creator loves you     | William Barnett-Lewis<BR>
as a mother. Go in peace to follow the good   | mailto://wlewis@mailbag.com<BR>
road and may God's blessing be with           |<BR>
you always.                                   |<BR>
St. Claire                                    |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:43:54 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Temps...<BR>
<BR>
From working briefly in the local hospital, I understood that 24C was the<BR>
norm - give or take a degree?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> [I will discuss only shipboard fashions in this post.]<BR>
><BR>
> " Temperature: The interior of a normal ship is about<BR>
> 25 degrees C [77 F]." - CT Sup. 7 Traders & Gunboats<BR>
> p. 7.<BR>
><BR>
> Given this bit of canon we need top ask what kind<BR>
> of clothes most people tend to wear when it is this<BR>
> temperature?<BR>
<BR>
I don't know *where* they got that figure, but "standard" room temp is<BR>
more like 70F (21C). And 20C (68F) is often quoted as "normal".<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:46:34 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird food...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Trevor, Peter <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 5:22 AM<BR>
Subject: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> There's a fish & chip shop near Stilton (near a  friend's  place)<BR>
> that sells Mars bars deep fried in cripy batter, does that count?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Hey!  There are places that do that in Oz!  We also deep fry bananas and<BR>
pineapple rings (banana and pineapple fritters)... I know the Japanese don't<BR>
do that, but I thought it wasn't unique... does anywhere else really do it?<BR>
How about floating a meat pie in a bowl of split pea soup (a pie floater),<BR>
with or without tomato sauce?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:38:48 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 4:14 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> Red ties anybody?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Must be an American thing?  My "fet gear" is a steal grey/green suit with<BR>
double breasted jacket, motor boots, black shirt, and a bright red tie.  I<BR>
mentioned it to some fellow kinksters (including the local "leader" of the<BR>
old guard gay BDSM community) and they had never heard of it either.<BR>
<BR>
Which, as an ObTrav:  Imagine the trouble one just might get into for<BR>
wearing such clothing (normally worn where you come from), on another world<BR>
where it may send quite a different message?  Sexual,  societal, or<BR>
political?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:15:00 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Miniature's fashions<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 2:23 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> [I will discuss only shipboard fashions in this post.]<BR>
><BR>
> " Temperature: The interior of a normal ship is about<BR>
> 25 degrees C [77 F]." - CT Sup. 7 Traders & Gunboats<BR>
> p. 7.<BR>
><BR>
> Given this bit of canon we need top ask what kind<BR>
> of clothes most people tend to wear when it is this<BR>
> temperature? I have usually assumed long sleeved<BR>
> pants and short sleeved shirts usually of fairly light<BR>
> material are the standard but that some crew shorts<BR>
> & some prefer long pants & long sleeved shirts. I also<BR>
> assume that most ship crew who are not wearing a skin<BR>
> suit vacc suit as their clothing tend to wear clothing<BR>
> that is fairly tight to make it easier to don a space suit<BR>
> if/when it becomes necessary. Overalls and a t shirt may<BR>
> be worn on some of the more casual ships.<BR>
<BR>
Looking at the 15mm official Traveller minuters, I see snappy uniforms fror<BR>
ship's crew, though I don't see a free trader wishing to go to that expense.<BR>
The vacc-suits are somewhat bulky too, and we all know that there are<BR>
skin-tights but, obviously that doesn't fit in with thinking at the time of<BR>
manufacture.  But a ship's uniform is something I can see for a passanger<BR>
liner.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Some may prefer kilts/skirts to pants but (unless tight)<BR>
> skirts/kilts have a greater chance of getting caught on<BR>
> something. Short sleeved coveralls are also a<BR>
> possibility but I know that many people, myself<BR>
> included find that pants & a shirt fit better than one<BR>
> piece coveralls so I suspect that coveralls are less<BR>
> common. The notion that "one size fits most" may work<BR>
> with shirts but sure does not work with jumpsuits.<BR>
<BR>
I always felt that kilts should be part of the far future's dress codes...<BR>
none seen in the minutures though...<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> I assume Engineers and Maintenance personnel, who<BR>
> tend to get dirtier than other ships crew are<BR>
> likely to wear coveralls but I envision something<BR>
> more like what house painters wear than to a pair<BR>
> of coveralls<BR>
<BR>
The minatures show overalls (coveralls) or drill pants and shirts and<BR>
cylinder toolboxes.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> I also tend to assume that furred crew (Vargr & Aslan,<BR>
> etc.) will wear less clothing, especially on the<BR>
> upper half of their bodies if they can get away with<BR>
> it if they are on a human 25 degrees C ship and that<BR>
> their own ships are kept cooler, probably about<BR>
> 15 C [59 F].<BR>
<BR>
The Vargr miniatures wear quite bulky, almost musketeer-like clothing...<BR>
quite swish, and it's how I imagine them actually - though that's just me<BR>
:^)<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> The above comments focused primarily on civilian spacers.<BR>
> In the military, of course, ships personnel will usually<BR>
> wear whatever regulations require, such regulations<BR>
> may or may not make sense.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
And of course I'm not saying the miniatures represent everyone's picture of<BR>
what is worn (the colonists and nobles look quite neat), but may represent a<BR>
very limited form of early sci-fi thinking in design.  There is also the<BR>
"pleasure droid," a young woman in a *very* low cut one piece... what was<BR>
that in aid of?  Even as the perverted male I am, it was a little to<BR>
predictable for my liking (considering the thoughts of the [Imperial]times<BR>
on droids and the like...).<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:17:54 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jim & Peta Lawrie <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:05 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>     Don't be ridiculous! Don't you know that fictional heroes never<BR>
urinate,<BR>
> defecate, menstruate or any other sort of -ate?! The can leap from air<BR>
raft<BR>
> to air raft without messing up their hair too! You can be so unrealistic!<BR>
>     Jim<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Yeah?  Well what about the food they ATE!?  PC's in my games always eat,<BR>
reflecting the life of the players themselves...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:09:04 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: 1st...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Okay, clarification please... your amendment is a "Restricted Free<BR>
Speech"<BR>
> > (isn't that an oxymoron?), where you CAN say anything, BUT nothing<BR>
that's to<BR>
> > offensive?<BR>
><BR>
> No. What most folks don't understand is that while you have the freedom<BR>
> to say damn near anything, you are responsible for the *consequences*.<BR>
> Thus, you can be sued for libel or slander without the First Amendment<BR>
> being an issue.<BR>
<BR>
We don't have a guaranteed "Freedom of Speech" in Australia, but it is also<BR>
one of those things where if you say something, you are also responsible for<BR>
the consequences (libel, slander, etc.), and we may still have laws about<BR>
public obscenities (swearing in public, offensive behaviour and so on), just<BR>
that you don't see a lot of it unless the offensive behaviour is really<BR>
offensive or includes public nudity.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> "Obscenity" is (IMO) not really a proper restriction. But it can't last<BR>
> a lot longer since the Internet is showing how poorly "community<BR>
> standards" fit the real world.<BR>
<BR>
Although I should add, you can't be belligerent and swear at a copper...<BR>
then action will normally be taken.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> > And is it against the law there to threaten someone?  In Oz (and perhaps<BR>
the<BR>
> > U.K.?), police cannot act on a threat (unless you can "pay" them to, by<BR>
> > being influential... but even then they can only look into it - I just<BR>
got<BR>
> > that from the horses mouth a few minutes ago, a copper mate).<BR>
><BR>
> It depends. You'd need a laywer to detail the ins and outs of that one.<BR>
<BR>
Damn it Leonard, you normally have an answer for everything mate!  When I'd<BR>
seen you had replied, I thought you had an answer for me!<BR>
<BR>
True, I'm one of those people that think you are one of those people that<BR>
know everything... but I mean that in a nice way :^)<BR>
<BR>
Thanks anyway mate.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:38:20 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:25 PM<BR>
Subject: Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> >Thirdly... as a female.... I don't want to be too crude here... but there<BR>
> >are valid reasons for at least a loincloth and most cultures do at least<BR>
> >wear some kind of skirt/briefs.  To put it bluntly, I don't want to sit<BR>
on<BR>
> >a chair that another woman has been sitting in not wearing any panties.<BR>
> >ESPECIALLY not 3-7 days out of every 28 or so, but really not at any<BR>
time.<BR>
> >And most men aren't too comfortable letting their dangly bits just<BR>
dangle.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> IIRC, Heinlein often had families on board spacecraft (where they could<BR>
set<BR>
> the temperature to whatever they wanted) wearing nothing at all.  I<BR>
confess<BR>
> to being intrigued as to the practicality of this as a teenager!<BR>
<BR>
I actually know naturalist families, but have never asked anything about<BR>
this (I'll have to now).  How do such people get like these feel about the<BR>
loincloth idea and the dangly bits?  These are people that spend entire<BR>
weekends with strangers whom are also nudists, at a private resort north of<BR>
Brisbane - sharing seats and such I'm sure?<BR>
<BR>
I could also see that in a spacefaring culture, that certain groups may<BR>
prefer no clothing (A colony ship of nudists?  A colony of nudists??).  I<BR>
could also go as far to see that perhaps a tradition of IN nakedness aboard<BR>
ship could somehow develop - at a stretch.  But in a military or<BR>
para-military environment, I couldn't see much practicality in it.  I'd go<BR>
as far as perhaps boxer shorts as a minimum standard, for both sexes, for<BR>
sleep and/or recreation (though again, I, personally, YMMV, couldn't see a<BR>
law against nudity during those times?).  On duty, I'm sure a uniform<BR>
standard would be the norm depending upon duties, and not for modesty sake,<BR>
but for practicalities (my nudist friend commented at the new years day<BR>
brekkie [about 1 P.M. after the party] when the host was only wearing boxers<BR>
cooking bacon, sausages, eggs, onions, and tomatoes on a BBQ, "Who is the<BR>
stupidest person in a nudist colony?  The cook at a BBQ not wearing an<BR>
full-front apron!").  Ohhhh... think of some of the accident reports...<BR>
<faint><BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:15:20 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Impie Snob Schools <BR>
<BR>
How about the mother of all snob schools, Unity University.  You ain't seen<BR>
PC until you've seen Unity!<BR>
<BR>
http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/login/article.cgi?633<BR>
<BR>
(My apologies to those of you who do not have a subscription to Pyramid<BR>
Magazine.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kenji Schwarz" <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
> I've always wished there were more institutions of higher learning in the<BR>
> OTU, with a voice/presence, I mean.  What do we have?<BR>
><BR>
>  - Kasiiga University on Vland<BR>
>  - The Jumpspace Institue on Deneb<BR>
>  - University of Regina<BR>
>  - University of Rhylanor<BR>
>  - Glisten Planetological Institute (?)<BR>
>  - Institute for System Studies on Alzenei (Sky Raiders trilogy)<BR>
>  - Imperial Academy of Science and Medicine<BR>
><BR>
> ... anything else?  Most of these don't have a whole lot of character,<BR>
> ISTM; partly because, maybe, they're so far apart that they can't<BR>
> interact enough.  Expansions would be cool.  101 Schools?  I'd write for<BR>
> _that_.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 02:40:05 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Weird food<BR>
<BR>
"Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com> sez:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
>> To me, hating homosexuals makes about as much sense as hating<BR>
>> people who put bananas on their peanut butter sandwiches in<BR>
>> lieu of using jelly.<BR>
><BR>
>There's a fish & chip shop near Stilton (near a  friend's  place)<BR>
>that sells Mars bars deep fried in cripy batter, does that count?<BR>
<BR>
 I'm told this particular delicacy (and the general practice of deep-frying<BR>
anything that doesn't have a brogue) has led to an amazingly high<BR>
heart attack rate in Scotland...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:39:09 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re BITS Millenium Adv.<BR>
<BR>
>The BITS website has been updated to have a hypertext link on the<BR>
>(non-frames) index page to allow users of software such as Lynx to<BR>
>download the Millennium Special freebie adventure 'White Dwarf'. This<BR>
>adventure will only remain for a few more days though, as we will be<BR>
>removing it from the website.<BR>
<BR>
Not sure whether this is a threat or a promise, Dom. Or even whether it is<BR>
a good or bad thing you released it.<BR>
<BR>
>The adventure is in Acrobat format and somewhat tongue-in-cheek.<BR>
<BR>
Somewhat? Only if you consider having said tongue erupt like a tusk from<BR>
said cheek to be "Somewhat" is it "Somewhat Tongoue in cheek"!<BR>
<BR>
An interesting read. Confusing, however, as it bears no resemblance to the<BR>
3 hour made-for-US-TV movie of the same name... although it does bear a<BR>
striking resemblance to a ___ dwarf of a different color.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:46:14 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Fashion & Red Ties<BR>
<BR>
>>> > > these "insider" signals lose their meaning.<BR>
>>> > ...or they're sometimes replaced by others.<BR>
>>> ><BR>
>>> Red ties anybody?<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>Kenji, Most of the folks *I* have seen wearing red ties are also<BR>
>wearing blue suits. It's the AmWay "uniform". <shudder><BR>
<BR>
I always thought there was something a little queer about AmWay...<BR>
Especially since it's the only organization I know of where a bunch of<BR>
pearls or diamonds means a group of wealthy men... and they hug each other<BR>
publicly, and often.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 20:06:20 -0500<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT: Imperial Navy Playtest Suspended<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:22:12 -0600<BR>
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
>Subject: Re: GT: Imperial Navy Playtest Suspended<BR>
><BR>
>>"GURPS Traveller: Imperial Navy has been postponed indefinitely; the<BR>
>>manuscript that was posted here varied in too many respects from what SJ<BR>
>>Games, and Traveller fans, expected from this title. We are now looking<BR>
>>for a new proposal, but we have no idea when Imperial Navy will go back<BR>
>>onto the schedule. Sorry for the delay...."<BR>
><BR>
>Hum, that's interesting. Does anyone want to speculate on what brought<BR>
that on?<BR>
<BR>
The answer is the same as that to the riddle, "How many Vietnam Vets does<BR>
it take to change a lightbulb?"<BR>
<BR>
"You don't know, man! You weren't there!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[My respects to the vets on the list, if any -- for I don't know; I wasn't<BR>
there.]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1693<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1694</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, January 7 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1694<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: 101 Schools - What's Needed?<BR>
Re: World Builder Deluxe<BR>
Re: Frea Speach: a Thank-you<BR>
RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1684<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
Re MEn in Uniform [OT]<BR>
not really Re: Rat Dogs<BR>
RE: fashions<BR>
RE: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
RE: It takes a Village (was Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug atthe stake! Legion at thePiano!)<BR>
RE: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
RE: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
Re Fashion<BR>
Re: Re Fashion & Red Ties <BR>
Re: Re Terrorism Threats <BR>
Tchai for Traveller<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: party???<BR>
Re: Hyphen for Emperor!<BR>
Re: GT: Imperial Navy Playtest Suspended<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:47:27 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 101 Schools - What's Needed?<BR>
<BR>
In response to:<BR>
<BR>
> What information do you folks think would be needed to present an<BR>
> institution of higher learning (as something other than the focus of an<BR>
> adventure)?<BR>
<BR>
How about relative prestige compaered to other institutions? General<BR>
guidelines for types of careers followed by graduates? Graduation rate?<BR>
Average INT, EDU, SOC of accepted students or graduates? A description of<BR>
the campus (quick reference material in case PCs need to visit Professor<BR>
Smith at the University of California, Sylea campus)?<BR>
<BR>
What about education in general? Are there alternative paths to the four<BR>
years of college we see in HG, etc? Trade schools? How much of the tab for<BR>
education in general, and higher education in particular, is picked up by<BR>
the local government?<BR>
<BR>
What is the typical curriculum like? 75 years ago, quantum mechanics was<BR>
research being performed by the best and brightest. I learned basic QM<BR>
concepts in high-school and the real stuff in my second year of<BR>
undergraduate studies. What additional technology has been pushed down to<BR>
the undergraduate level by the time of the 3I? What type of equipment will<BR>
be available in TL12 university labs? What about TL15 labs?<BR>
<BR>
Is serious research performed at the universities, of has the high cost of<BR>
high-tech research pushed all the serious stuff to corporations with deep<BR>
pockets?<BR>
<BR>
Do they have fine fraternal institutions like we have today? Which ones?<BR>
Certainly a section of 101 Schools should be dedicated to descriptions of<BR>
the fraternities of the 3I. Their history, famous members, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Luther<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:51:04 -0000<BR>
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: World Builder Deluxe<BR>
<BR>
>I've just installed the latest version of World Builder Deluxe, and I am<BR>
>awestruck by the robustness of this program! This will save me SO much<BR>
>time in pre-session preparation. And now it has maps! Maps, I tell you!<BR>
<BR>
>*sound of me dropping to my knees and prostrating myself before Stuart*<BR>
>I'm not worthy!<BR>
>I'm not worthy!<BR>
<BR>
Thanks Erwin, if you like WBD then you should visit my new website at:-<BR>
<BR>
http://www.downport.com/wbd/HEAVEN_&_EARTH.htm<BR>
<BR>
I am in the process of rewriting WBD with a view to improving the user<BR>
interface and providing support for all Traveller flavours. A limited Beta<BR>
of the program is available to subscribers of the WBD Mailing List.<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Ferris<BR>
stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:10:08 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Frea Speach: a Thank-you<BR>
<BR>
Thank-you Jeff, you did answer that quite clearly and helped in my pursuit<BR>
of further education in social studies, for want of a better term :^)<BR>
<BR>
As for the arrogance, I assume the list is hosted/set-up in/from the US by a<BR>
US citizen?  That kind of makes it US to me, but I do understand exactly<BR>
what you mean and I agree with it.  Further though, it was, I believe, a US<BR>
citizen (LL) stating nasty thoughts (in jest or otherwise, they never<BR>
worried me - and yes, we have hate crimes and homophobics et al in Oz) and<BR>
complained loudly by other US citizens... an until now, it seemed strange<BR>
that US citizens fight hard for their right to free speech, but were<BR>
attempting to gag another, but now I understand, thank-you.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 10:30 AM<BR>
Subject: Frea Speach (was: Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion<BR>
<legate@futureone.com>)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, it doesn't - this is a private forum, and the<BR>
> Constitution covers what the government and certain "public<BR>
> accommodations" may do.  More, this is an international mailing<BR>
> list; it seems to me to be quite arrogant to assume that U.S. law<BR>
> applies in an international forum.<BR>
><BR>
> The "Free Speech" argument (often misspelled as "Free Speach",<BR>
> and further parodied as I did in the subject line) frequently<BR>
> makes its appearance on Usenet, usually over the byline of some<BR>
> jerk who is, if possible, more offensive and annoying than Clif<BR>
> and Legate combined - and who's just been told in no uncertain<BR>
> terms to go stuff, or who has recently lost an internet account<BR>
> because of net-abuse.  It is invariably, inevitably, quickly, and<BR>
> correctly slapped down.<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 20:57:47 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Thing<BR>
> I've done the jealous boyfriend routine for several ladies I know at<BR>
> cons as well.  And one friend that is a five foot nothing readhead 4th<BR>
> degree black belt had me hit on her on the first day of a con so she<BR>
> could throw me down the hall.  After seeing this tiny cute girl send my<BR>
> huge body rolling down the hall nobody bothered her the whole con.<BR>
<BR>
I'm surprised, I would have expected them to be lining up to be hurt.<BR>
Isn't it every fan's dream to be beaten up by some little anime chick ?<BR>
<BR>
> Luckily for me I learned to take a fall well at an early age.<BR>
<BR>
Puts a different take on falling for a girl, huh ?<BR>
<BR>
> I've never been able to pull of the same sex thing tho.  I actually had<BR>
> a couple of ladies I work with tell me that I am the least gay man that<BR>
> they know.  Of course one of these ladies also drunkenly told me that I<BR>
> was really great to talk to because I was more like a girl than a guy.<BR>
<BR>
I've had that happen too. And I prefer women.<BR>
<BR>
My story :<BR>
<BR>
The funnniest RPG thing I've seen recently was during our Aliens: Apocalypse<BR>
LARP. A group of players in full gear (cammo, headsets, & pulse rifles, some<BR>
with realistic-looking  wounds done by a film make-up technician, were<BR>
guarding the entrance to LARP venue.<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately there was a wedding reception next door, and several of the<BR>
cars took the wrong gate. You can imagine the looks on the wedding party's<BR>
faces when they were stopped by armed troops!<BR>
<BR>
Reportedly the 'Sarge', the guy chewing the cigar stayed in character, and<BR>
said to the driver "Sorry sir, this area is restricted. Your reception is<BR>
over there."<BR>
<BR>
The driver, looking worried, said "What's going on" so 'Sarge' said "<BR>
Nothing to worry about sir, just a litle play-acting". The guy didn't look<BR>
too convinced.<BR>
<BR>
Later, as I was arriving, I was waved down by one of the wedding party as I<BR>
approached the venue, warned about the military excercise, and asked to come<BR>
inside.<BR>
<BR>
See, I was dressed as a priest...<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:51:29 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1684<BR>
<BR>
From: Frank G. Pitt <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 11:35 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1684<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Hmm, so someone inspired by Louis Farrakhan to go out and beat on Whitey is<BR>
not commmitting a hate crime ?<BR>
><BR>
They might be.  Are they trying to scare all white people or just using that<BR>
as an excuse?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>This is to satisfy those who think a military court might be lenient on the<BR>
accused, and so there are no repeats of what sometimes used to happen in<BR>
these circumstances, the serviceman being transferred elsewhwere before the<BR>
local law could do anything about it, and the local military refusing to say<BR>
where because it was militarily sensitive.<BR>
><BR>
>Of course this still happens sometimes, such as the serviceman who the US<BR>
refused to hand over to the Japanese after he killed a Japanese girl a few<BR>
years back.<BR>
><BR>
He did not merely kill her.  She was repeatedly and brutally raped.  And she<BR>
was 11 years old.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:51:43 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
At 08:03 AM 1/6/00 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>Via electronic medium on 1/3/00 9:26 PM, cybernaut@netzero.net wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Actually, in the TV series, the Cylons were described as a<BR>
>> lizard-like race.  Who created the robots, who were not true<BR>
>> Cylons.<BR>
><BR>
>Interesting, I missed that. Probably rolling on the floor laughing. Not that<BR>
>I didn't like the show, I think it is great. But very funny at times. Would<BR>
>you know what episode? Is that the race of Big Purple Head, or were they<BR>
>never seen or what?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Apolla explained the origin of the cylons in the original 2 hour movie. He<BR>
told Boxy that the original Cylon race was reptilian. They build the robot<BR>
cylons as workers. Later, the original Cylon race died out and the robots<BR>
replaced them. <BR>
<BR>
Of course, in the book, the Cylons were all cyborgs. As a Cylon advanced in<BR>
rank, he would get another brain installed. The Imperious Leader supposedly<BR>
had 3 brains in his head.<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:56:43 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re MEn in Uniform [OT]<BR>
<BR>
>> It must be the bars I hang out in, I have NEVER seen a man come into a bar<BR>
>> in his uniform.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
The wierdest I've seen was a gent in the USAF... he showed up not only in<BR>
uniform, but in DRAG (Full female uniform), complete with his own nametag<BR>
and ribbons, Class B uniform. Including the "Tab" that goes at the collar...<BR>
<BR>
Oh, BTW, did I forget to mention the bar was the one in the Kashim, the NCO<BR>
Club on Elemendorf, and this was back in about 1990... just before Don't<BR>
Ask, Don't Tell.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: I doubt there will be any issues at all amongst the official<BR>
policies of the 3I uniformed services about gender basis for uniforms,<BR>
except for matters of tailoring. I suspect the question will be something<BR>
like "Boxers, briefs, pantyhose, hip-huggers, bikinis, fishnets, or<BR>
supporter?" as opposed to the modern "Boxers or Briefs" bit I got asked<BR>
back in '87 at Ft. Dix...<BR>
<BR>
I fully expect skirts/kilts/coolats to be available for either gender. One<BR>
of my players (not his character) discovered large women's coolats are<BR>
extremely comfy for around the house wear... he just won't wear them in<BR>
public.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 03:04:01 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: not really Re: Rat Dogs<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, the Taco Hell Chihuahua reminds me of a 1982 one-hit wonder that I<BR>
>always play at 85 mph or higher!:<BR>
><BR>
>"I wish I was in Tijuana<BR>
> Eating Bar-B-Qued Iguana<BR>
> I hear the talking of the DJ,<BR>
> Can't understand JUST WHAT DOES HE SAY!<BR>
><BR>
>"I'm on-a Mexican Radio!<BR>
> I'm on-a Mexican...wo-oh...Radio!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hey now, that's no way to talk about Wall of Voodoo!  Their version of "Ring <BR>
of Fire" is better than any other...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 21:00:22 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jason T.<BR>
> Barnabas<BR>
> If the long hair had a smart net in/on it, it would pose no<BR>
> problem at all, just start to suit up and the net gathers the<BR>
> hair into a coil at the top of the head.  A proximity sensor<BR>
> with something to sense in the suit would be all it needed<BR>
> to trigger the wind up.<BR>
<BR>
I can see that being used as a weapon.<BR>
<BR>
"OK, Spook, hack her smart net, don't kill her just make her pliable so the<BR>
wet team don't have too much bother on entry"<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 21:08:16 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Glenn<BR>
> St-Germain<BR>
> Sent: Friday, 7 January 2000 16:51<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> >> Is it just me or did RAH's later books get kind of weird. I sometimes<BR>
> >> got the impression he was writing with one hand (if you get my drift.)<BR>
> ><BR>
> >It wasn't just you.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >In a desperate effort to avoid the RAH thread, has anyone else<BR>
> >noticed that Niven is starting to read more like a dirty old man<BR>
> >than he used to? Do other big-name science fiction writers get<BR>
> >this way as they get older?<BR>
><BR>
> I was going to suggest Isaac Asimov as an example of one who didn't<BR>
> -- then I remember his published works include the book Lecherous<BR>
> Limericks and its two sequels as well as the book The Sensuous Dirty<BR>
> Old Man.<BR>
><BR>
> In defence of RAH, though, he did suffer a stroke during the period<BR>
> that he was writing The Number Of The Beast, and you can almost tell<BR>
> where in the book he was when it happened, as the book abruptly changes<BR>
> direction at that point. It was in TNOTB that he first started writing<BR>
> with lots of weird sex, a trend which continued in his novels thereafter<BR>
> (especially those featuring Lazarus Long and family)...<BR>
<BR>
Bzzzt! Wrong !<BR>
<BR>
It was in "Stranger in A Strange Land" (and less descriptively "Glory Road")<BR>
that he started that, and all but one of the Lazarus Long Family books were<BR>
written _before_<BR>
TNOTB.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -- g<BR>
><BR>
>      Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada<BR>
> cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
>         "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
>                                  -- Gary Numan<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 19:53:36 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: It takes a Village (was Re: The Village People (was Re: Doug atthe stake! Legion at thePiano!)<BR>
<BR>
> >You want to know who the black hats really are?  It's the Impie<BR>
> >imperialists!<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, I notice that both the Solomani and the Zhodani are open and <BR>
> honest about the existence of their plain clothes police unit (SolSec <BR>
> and the Tvarchedl').<BR>
> <BR>
> What are the Impies hiding, eh?<BR>
<BR>
IRIS !!!<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 19:56:50 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > At 10:14 AM 1/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >Hanky codes are another good one.<BR>
> > >Many g/l/b/t and kink folks used to use<BR>
> > >different bandana colors to indicate what<BR>
> > >sexual practices they favored,<BR>
> > >but these were by no means standard from<BR>
> > >locality to locality.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I think we still have one of the guide cards around here somewhere.  Too<BR>
> > complex.  I prefer desperately shouting my interests at closing time.<BR>
<BR>
There is a on-line guide maintained by Elf Sternberg (the _real_ Traveller<BR>
novelist <grin>) on his web site along with the Journal entries.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 19:47:40 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
> >> Matthew Sheppard assumed he was going out for a good time.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >So ?  I always assume I'm going to have a good time as well.<BR>
> >There's no point in doing otherwise.<BR>
><BR>
> Ah.  I just noticed th .nz<BR>
> Matthew Sheppard was a gay college student in Colorado.<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
I'm familiar with the case, we've had a similar one over here recently,<BR>
though the people involved were younger.<BR>
<BR>
The point is there was absolutely no way he could have avoided his fate,<BR>
other than not look ing for sexual partners, so there's no point in worrying<BR>
about it.<BR>
<BR>
Also, the same sort of things have happened to non-homosexual men and women<BR>
throughout history, probably in larger numbers, so the victim being bisexual<BR>
or gay does not make the case special.<BR>
<BR>
snip><BR>
> I'm not paranoid.  I'm a bisexual man in America.  Every year at Pride<BR>
> there are the protestors, who come with such seething hate that you can<BR>
> feel it.<BR>
<BR>
Shame, but not a reason to worry.<BR>
<BR>
Their hatred makes them easy to control.<BR>
Be nice to them, it'll make them more annoyed and they may burst a blood<BR>
vessel.<BR>
<BR>
> Check out a few of the Usenet groups like<BR>
> alt.politics.homosexual, and count the number of death threats.<BR>
<BR>
You see death threats in just about any newsgroup or list that is<BR>
unmoderated.<BR>
Hell, I saw death threats in sci.physics.fusion before it became moderated.<BR>
It's a part of Usenet.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps you get more in a.p.h, but that's probably because so many males in<BR>
the world are so scared of homosexuality, unfortunately.<BR>
But are any of the threats ever acted on ?<BR>
<BR>
The reason I'm blase about death threats (whether in email or real life ) is<BR>
because I've dealt with _real_ threats to my life, not words on a screen.<BR>
<BR>
The dangerous ones aren't going to threaten you first.<BR>
<BR>
> I refuse to live in a prison for being what I am, be it GURPS author or<BR>
> "pervert."<BR>
<BR>
Good.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, pervert is a specialist term, are you actually a pervert, or just<BR>
bisexual ?<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
While I haven't discussed my sexuality so far, in my younger days I used to<BR>
describe myself as a quintisexual, I had no qualms about doing it with<BR>
either sex, animals( aliens, Kenji's, penguins, & Marilyn Manson ), plants,<BR>
or inamnimate objects.<BR>
<BR>
These days though, I'm married and am largely only involved with one female<BR>
and a few inanimate objects.<BR>
<BR>
> But I don't have to take abuse like LL's in what is,<BR>
> after all, a closed mailing list.<BR>
<BR>
True. But you don't have to get worried about it either.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and BTW, it's not technically a closed mailing list either, anyone can<BR>
join.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:10:45 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Fashion<BR>
<BR>
>Which, as an ObTrav:  Imagine the trouble one just might get into for<BR>
>wearing such clothing (normally worn where you come from), on another world<BR>
>where it may send quite a different message?  Sexual,  societal, or<BR>
>political?<BR>
><BR>
Think of how inconsequential it would be in any startown near a mains route<BR>
port! SOO many different fads, fasions, cultureal and subcultural identity<BR>
markers...<BR>
<BR>
> There is also the<BR>
>"pleasure droid," a young woman in a *very* low cut one piece... what was<BR>
>that in aid of?  Even as the perverted male I am, it was a little to<BR>
>predictable for my liking (considering the thoughts of the [Imperial]times<BR>
>on droids and the like...).<BR>
<BR>
Keep thinking that way, Roc. I always assumed she was AC/DC, fully<BR>
functional... with a retractable phallus<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 01:09:28 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Fashion & Red Ties <BR>
<BR>
> >>> Red ties anybody?<BR>
> >><BR>
> ><BR>
> >Kenji, Most of the folks *I* have seen wearing red ties are also<BR>
> >wearing blue suits. It's the AmWay "uniform". <shudder><BR>
> <BR>
> I always thought there was something a little queer about AmWay...<BR>
<BR>
Funny, they always came across as more of a religious cult to me.<BR>
<BR>
> Especially since it's the only organization I know of where a bunch of<BR>
> pearls or diamonds means a group of wealthy men... and they hug each other<BR>
> publicly, and often.<BR>
<BR>
I learned a *LONG* time ago to be wary of any sales organisation that tried passing itself off as 'a way of life'.<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 01:13:15 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Terrorism Threats <BR>
<BR>
> While I haven't discussed my sexuality so far, in my younger days I used to<BR>
> describe myself as a quintisexual, I had no qualms about doing it with<BR>
> either sex, animals( aliens, Kenji's, penguins, & Marilyn Manson ), plants,<BR>
> or inamnimate objects.<BR>
<BR>
Mason jars?  Vacuum cleaners?<BR>
 <BR>
> These days though, I'm married and am largely only involved with one female<BR>
> and a few inanimate objects.<BR>
<BR>
Gave up the vacuum cleaner, eh?<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 03:17:52 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Tchai for Traveller<BR>
<BR>
>>There was an old article  (c. 1982), published with approval I believe, set<BR>
>>on Jack Vance's world Tchai, placed c. 150 parsecs rimward of Terra.  I<BR>
have<BR>
>>it buried in my basement somewhere.  It always impressed me as a wide open<BR>
>>campaign setting.<BR>
><BR>
>    I've always wanted to do that! Can you tell me what publication it is<BR>
>in?<BR>
<BR>
 Space Gamer, during the SJG era of that magazine's long history.  I'll see <BR>
if I can track down the specific issue.<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:24:12<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
At 11:47 AM 1/6/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>and by closing time, my interests have become a bit less<BR>
>detailed: alive and apparently of the right sex might be enough.<BR>
> Actually, just the second item might be enough.<BR>
<BR>
That's the big advantage of bisexuality.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:02:01<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: party???<BR>
<BR>
At 09:16 AM 1/7/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
>Dear Folks -<BR>
><BR>
>Evyn wrote:<BR>
>>Actully I am hoping to have the formal combat/court attire of the Clan<BR>
>>MacDude ready for the dinner.<BR>
><BR>
>Just make sure someone brings a camera.<BR>
<BR>
well, I hope to have my Marine Force Major uniform done by then.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:57:46<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hyphen for Emperor!<BR>
<BR>
At 07:16 PM 1/6/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
>At 17:55 -0500 5/1/00,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> wrote:<BR>
>> >Been there, done that. Did I mention playing the Big S at Sydcon?<BR>
>>;-)<BR>
>><BR>
>>	Hyphen for Grandfather!<BR>
><BR>
>Ok, coming right up...<BR>
><BR>
>Grand-father.<BR>
<BR>
4.0!!!!!!!!!!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:57:07<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT: Imperial Navy Playtest Suspended<BR>
<BR>
At 04:22 PM 1/6/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>On 01/06/00 at 04:21 PM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Hum, that's interesting. Does anyone want to speculate on what brought<BR>
that >on?<BR>
<BR>
Please don't.  Honestly, I am asking folks not to mull this over too hard.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1694<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, January 7 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1695<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
re: Photo PagePhoto Page<BR>
Re: not really Re: Rat Dogs<BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
"Frea" Speach?<BR>
Re: OT: Quicken for Mac <BR>
Re: Temps...<BR>
OT: Near keyboard kill<BR>
Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
RE: GT: Imperial Navy Playtest Suspended<BR>
RE: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
RE: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
Re: Voice of Reason (Solomani Version)<BR>
Re: Threats to kill<BR>
OT but interesting.<BR>
Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: 101 Schools - What's Needed?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:10:12<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: re: Photo PagePhoto Page<BR>
<BR>
At 07:27 PM 1/6/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>The BITS site's Travelling Pages puts some faces to names <BR>
>(http://www.bits.org.uk/)<BR>
><BR>
>I think that either Jesse or Doug had the San Francisco TML'rs on.<BR>
<BR>
That would be mine.  Follow the bouncing links.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.<BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TravGeekCode: <BR>
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>
         <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 00:24:12 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: not really Re: Rat Dogs<BR>
<BR>
GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Actually, the Taco Hell Chihuahua reminds me of a 1982 one-hit wonder that I<BR>
> >always play at 85 mph or higher!:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >"I wish I was in Tijuana<BR>
> > Eating Bar-B-Qued Iguana<BR>
> > I hear the talking of the DJ,<BR>
> > Can't understand JUST WHAT DOES HE SAY!<BR>
> ><BR>
> >"I'm on-a Mexican Radio!<BR>
> > I'm on-a Mexican...wo-oh...Radio!"<BR>
><BR>
> Hey now, that's no way to talk about Wall of Voodoo!  Their version of "Ring<BR>
> of Fire" is better than any other...<BR>
<BR>
I have to disagree there Jim, The Beat Farmers version is second only to<BR>
the Man in Blacks.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We have<BR>
to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door. Knowledge<BR>
isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:59:13<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
At 10:56 AM 1/6/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>>Word has it that when JFK made his linguistic blunder, there was some<BR>
>>tittering in the crowd, but the Germans were too polite to actually<BR>
>>break into laughter -- they knew what he was trying to say...<BR>
><BR>
>When John Diefenbaker was in Mexico (as PM) he made a short speach in<BR>
>Spanish. Everyone politely applauded, then the Mexican President thanked<BR>
>him for addressing them in his native French.<BR>
<BR>
Jimmy Carter expressed his great lust for the Polish people in '78.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 03:23:07 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I was going to suggest Isaac Asimov as an example of one who<BR>
> didn't -- then I remember his published works include the book<BR>
> Lecherous Limericks and its two sequels as well as the book The<BR>
> Sensuous Dirty Old Man.<BR>
<BR>
Well, you can't blame the limericks on his age. They were a life-long<BR>
obsession for him...<BR>
<BR>
...besides, it's *illegal* to write a clean limerick.<BR>
<BR>
"There once was this fellow from Vland..."<BR>
<BR>
Oh wait, any more and I would enter into elder pervert status, wouldn't I?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:15:57 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
>> Of course people with high standards, specific interests, and/or body<BR>
shapes deemed currently unfashionable have to wait longer to find what they<BR>
want.  But that's always been true.<BR>
>><BR>
<BR>
>You pegged another pet-peeve of mine : liking a person based on their<BR>
appearance.  People tend to forget what we have little choice in the bodies<BR>
God gave us.  If we aren't like the "hunks" or "babes" that doesn't mean we<BR>
don't deserve the same love and happiness everyone else gets.  American<BR>
media is really bad about this body stereotyping but it's such a crock.<BR>
><BR>
ARGH!!!  Do you want love and happiness, or do you want to force someone who<BR>
isn't really interested in you to make your life miserable for a while<BR>
before they move on to someone they want more, making you feel worse in the<BR>
end?<BR>
<BR>
You're confusing two issues and I have to disagree with you.<BR>
<BR>
We cannot help "liking" people based on their appearance.  Not when it comes<BR>
to sexuality, Jory.  As someone who has distinct physical preferences in<BR>
partners that are different from the norm for my apparent age/race/size, I<BR>
find that this "You should like people based on their minds" stuff generally<BR>
gets aimed at me by people who resent my choices while never considering the<BR>
reasons behind their own.<BR>
<BR>
We do not just have sex with people's minds or souls.  So if we are<BR>
considering mating with someone it has to be someone we find sexually<BR>
attractive physically as well as emotionally.<BR>
<BR>
I have been repeatedly blasted in polyamory newsgroups because those who<BR>
know me well (as I thought you did) know that I do not find white men or<BR>
American body language terribly sexy, and since most men in the poly<BR>
movement are white and American and PC, they feel compelled to take out<BR>
their resentments by criticizing my ethics.  (I do not tell them my reasons<BR>
for not wanting to whatever, but invariably some well meaning friend of mine<BR>
does.)  I resent this especially since their lovers do not seem to be an<BR>
especially diverse group either.<BR>
<BR>
I particularly resent this because it is my experience that when you try to<BR>
"build" a sexual attraction that just is not there because your friends all<BR>
say "So and so is so nice, why don't you give him a chance, you dated all<BR>
those bastards..." what invariably happens is you waste the nice guy's time<BR>
and your own and cause more pain and resentment than you would have if you'd<BR>
just ignored your friends.<BR>
<BR>
The fact is that we are sexually attracted to people because of their looks,<BR>
scent, and body language as well as their mind and soul.  There was once a<BR>
guy I really liked as a person but I could never have gotten naked with him<BR>
because he had a funny smell.  It was not the result of poor hygiene, and it<BR>
did not affect other people-- call it pheromonal incompatibility.<BR>
<BR>
I REFUSE to be judged a bad person because I am turned on by one type of<BR>
body more than another when I know that most humans are similar!<BR>
<BR>
If this were not true we would all be bisexual!<BR>
<BR>
The problem is "stereotyping"-- not the fact that we require visual,<BR>
olfactory and tactile stimulation to become sexually aroused.<BR>
<BR>
Most humans do not all prefer the same things in a partner.  One guy likes<BR>
blondes, another redheads, one guy likes thin women, one guy likes fat<BR>
girls.  (I have noticed that people who think we should all be above having<BR>
physical standards of attractiveness rarely criticize Fat Admirers!)<BR>
<BR>
The vast majority of people do prefer a partner of similar cultural/racial<BR>
background and similar age.  This does not make them evil.  Some people (and<BR>
they are usually horribly criticized) prefer partners of a different age<BR>
group or racial group than their own.  They are not bad either.<BR>
<BR>
But if everyone were allowed to feel good about having whatever preferences<BR>
they have, be it same or opposite gender, body type, coloration, whatever,<BR>
then people whose preferences are not what's "Fashionable" would be able to<BR>
say so openly and get together with the people they want much more easily.<BR>
<BR>
This would be a lot more effective toward getting everyone the love they<BR>
need than trying to enforce some kind of "Vulcan" standard on humans and<BR>
having us all choose mates based on mental qualities which are not any more<BR>
or less easy to change than physical ones.<BR>
<BR>
(I have noticed that some of the most nasty and vocal persons on the poly<BR>
lists, who flamed me because all of my lovers within the past six years have<BR>
been foreign-born Asians, and not that I set out to make it that way-- would<BR>
never have considered dating anyone who didn't read science fiction and had<BR>
less than a 150 IQ-- what makes them less "discriminatory" than I?<BR>
Hiroshi's not a reader, unless you count rock magazines and manga, nor will<BR>
he ever be chosen to help find a cure for cancer-- and his English is really<BR>
spectacular sometimes.  I have gotten some very snotty remarks from some of<BR>
these "diversity" mavens on what on earth was I doing with someone like<BR>
THAT?)<BR>
<BR>
>Would people still be doing this stuff in a community as varied as the 3rd<BR>
Imperium?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Of course.  But it will vary from place to place, and you could always move<BR>
to wherever your type is in fashion.<BR>
<BR>
Again, if people had no preferences, what's to stop them from even<BR>
"discriminating" between species?<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:21:53 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
>> I've done the jealous boyfriend routine for several ladies I know at cons<BR>
as well.  And one friend that is a five foot nothing redhead 4th degree<BR>
black belt had me hit on her on the first day of a con so she could throw me<BR>
down the hall.  After seeing this tiny cute girl send my huge body rolling<BR>
down the hall nobody bothered her the whole con.<BR>
>><BR>
>I'm surprised, I would have expected them to be lining up to be hurt. Isn't<BR>
it every fan's dream to be beaten up by some little anime chick ?<BR>
><BR>
LOL.<BR>
<BR>
I once wore a riding crop on my belt to a con in Ohio.  Marcon, to be exact.<BR>
<BR>
In SF this would be nothing, but I had guys begging me to beat them and when<BR>
I actually did,<BR>
they did line up.<BR>
<BR>
I was telling my friends that I should have charged $5 a whack-- it would<BR>
have paid for the con.  Two guys dragged one of their other friends over to<BR>
be beaten.  It was the funniest thing.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:24:38 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: "Frea" Speach?<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 19:30:26 -0500<BR>
>From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
>Subject: Frea Speach (was: Re: MODERATOR: Legate Legion<BR>
><legate@futureone.com>)<BR>
<BR>
Clearly a typo.  You must have meant to type "Flea Speach".<BR>
<BR>
President, Flea liberation league....<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:27:42 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Quicken for Mac <BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:11:58 -0800<BR>
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
>Subject: Re: OT: Quicken for Mac<BR>
[snip]<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, I meant to send that by private e-mail<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:29:49 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Temps...<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:43:54 +1000<BR>
>From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
<BR>
>> [I will discuss only shipboard fashions in this post.]<BR>
>><BR>
>> " Temperature: The interior of a normal ship is about<BR>
>> 25 degrees C [77 F]." - CT Sup. 7 Traders & Gunboats<BR>
>> p. 7.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Given this bit of canon we need top ask what kind<BR>
>> of clothes most people tend to wear when it is this<BR>
>> temperature?<BR>
><BR>
>I don't know *where* they got that figure, but "standard" room temp is<BR>
>more like 70F (21C). And 20C (68F) is often quoted as "normal".<BR>
<BR>
Actually, in Chemistry "Room Temperature" is usually assumed to be<BR>
25C.  I don't know why....<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:36:14 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: OT: Near keyboard kill<BR>
<BR>
http://www.brunching.com/features/feature-vampirefaqk.html<BR>
<BR>
The above URL gave me a near-keyboard kill, OT but it is RPG related<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 00:35:27 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:28:09 -0600, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>On 01/06/00 at 04:24 PM,  Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
>>> Is it just me or did RAH's later books get kind of weird. I sometimes<BR>
>>> got the impression he was writing with one hand (if you get my drift.)<BR>
><BR>
>>It wasn't just you.<BR>
><BR>
>>In a desperate effort to avoid the RAH thread, has anyone else  noticed<BR>
>>that Niven is starting to read more like a dirty old man than he used to?<BR>
>>Do other big-name science fiction writers get  this way as they get<BR>
>>older?<BR>
><BR>
>Haven't you ever heard the expression "dirty old men?"  We aren't<BR>
>any dirtier as we get older, it's just, for whatever reason, we<BR>
>don't hide it as often or as well.<BR>
><BR>
Maybe the benefits of letting it out begin to outweigh the benefits of<BR>
keeping it hidden. A wise dirty old man once gave me some advice:<BR>
"Boy, when you go to a bar go up to every woman in there and ask her<BR>
'wanna f***?' Nine out of ten times you'll get slapped in the face.<BR>
But that tenth one makes it worth it!"<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
"Everything has an end, except sausages, which have two."     -Viking Proverb<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 00:23:05 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@BELLSOUTH.NET (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:20:06 -0500, "Josh W. Spencer"<BR>
<macmanjws@earthlink.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>On 01/06/2000 17:18, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> On 01/06/00 at 04:17 PM,  "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com> said:<BR>
>> <BR>
>>> Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
>>>> To me, hating homosexuals makes about as much sense as hating<BR>
>>>> people who put bananas on their peanut butter sandwiches in<BR>
>>>> lieu of using jelly.<BR>
>> <BR>
>>> There's a fish & chip shop near Stilton (near a  friend's  place) that<BR>
>>> sells Mars bars deep fried in cripy batter, does that count?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Now that's just sick! <g><BR>
>> <BR>
>> Actually, it sounds good, I'll have to try it.<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>HA! I got you guys beat four ways to the wind....my dad taught me how to<BR>
>make and eat peanut butter, sugar and bologna sandwiches. YUMMMMMMM!!<BR>
<BR>
Dammit! I think I gained four pounds (1.81 kg) just from reading this<BR>
thread! <BR>
<BR>
Tanj!!<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
"Everything has an end, except sausages, which have two."     -Viking Proverb<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 04:11:30 -0500<BR>
From: "J. Mark Brooks" <jmbrooks@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: GT: Imperial Navy Playtest Suspended<BR>
<BR>
I was there, and I still don't know.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>The answer is the same as that to the riddle, "How many Vietnam Vets does<BR>
>it take to change a lightbulb?"<BR>
<BR>
>"You don't know, man! You weren't there!"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 23:03:11 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Keven R.<BR>
> Pittsinger<BR>
> > While I haven't discussed my sexuality so far, in <BR>
> > my younger days I used to  describe myself as a <BR>
> > quintisexual, I had no qualms about doing it with<BR>
> > either sex, animals( aliens, Kenji's, penguins, <BR>
> > & Marilyn Manson ), plants, or inamnimate objects.<BR>
> <BR>
> Mason jars?  Vacuum cleaners?<BR>
<BR>
Among other things.<BR>
<BR>
Reminds me of a ryhme<BR>
<BR>
In days of old when knights were bold<BR>
and women were not invented<BR>
<BR>
They drilled holes in telgraph poles<BR>
and stood there quite contented<BR>
<BR>
  <BR>
> > These days though, I'm married and am largely only involved <BR>
> > with one female and a few inanimate objects.<BR>
> <BR>
> Gave up the vacuum cleaner, eh?<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, it got jealous.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 23:03:11 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Keven R.<BR>
> Pittsinger<BR>
> > While I haven't discussed my sexuality so far, in <BR>
> > my younger days I used to  describe myself as a <BR>
> > quintisexual, I had no qualms about doing it with<BR>
> > either sex, animals( aliens, Kenji's, penguins, <BR>
> > & Marilyn Manson ), plants, or inamnimate objects.<BR>
> <BR>
> Mason jars?  Vacuum cleaners?<BR>
<BR>
Among other things.<BR>
<BR>
Reminds me of a ryhme<BR>
<BR>
In days of old when knights were bold<BR>
and women were not invented<BR>
<BR>
They drilled holes in telgraph poles<BR>
and stood there quite contented<BR>
<BR>
  <BR>
> > These days though, I'm married and am largely only involved <BR>
> > with one female and a few inanimate objects.<BR>
> <BR>
> Gave up the vacuum cleaner, eh?<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, it got jealous.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:31:09 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Voice of Reason (Solomani Version)<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Actually, I have not. I have the AM: Solomani, but I have researched<BR>
Soviet<BR>
> > propaganda and watch the Psicorp/Nightwatch episodes of Babylon 5.<BR>
> <BR>
> Try to dig up a copy of a book a friend gave me for Christmas about 10<BR>
> years back:<BR>
> <BR>
> "Chekisty: History of the KGB" (and it's predecessors...)<BR>
> <BR>
> When someone at work commented on it I merely smiled and said I was<BR>
> studying it for tips on administering the LAN. :-)<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure of the scale, but I think that's a 1.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, propaganda isn't just the property of "totalitarian" societies,<BR>
nor are secret police forces, and so on.<BR>
<BR>
On the discussion of what is the proper analogy to the Solomani<BR>
Confederation, SolSec, etc:  The best analogies, IMHO, are apartheid-era<BR>
South Africa, and the Confederacy in America.  In both cases you have<BR>
considerable freedom for the privileged group, combined with a nasty<BR>
security apparatus keeping the unprivileged groups under control, as well<BR>
as keeping an eye on "traitors".<BR>
<BR>
The Confederacy also has the State egotism element that the Solomani<BR>
exhibit.  <BR>
<BR>
And, of course, there are the post-Civil War supremacist groups, which<BR>
spread well beyond the former Confederacy.  These are your Rule of Terra<BR>
type groups.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@bigpond.com.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:59:09 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Threats to kill<BR>
<BR>
> From: "MJ Dougherty" <BR>
> (I have come to associate certain names I see frequently<BR>
> on the list with the word "friends") <BR>
<BR>
Funny, I associate them with words like "food", "penguin" or "theodolite".<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:13:59 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: OT but interesting.<BR>
<BR>
The following just seems kind of interesting.  There must be an OBTRAV in<BR>
there somewhere.  "Of course", I'm just forwarding it, so I've lost some of<BR>
the details of the source.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
from REUTERS in Beijing<BR>
> <BR>
>                 Updated at 3.45pm:<BR>
>                 China will ban use of Microsoft Corp's new<BR>
>                 Windows 2000 operating system throughout<BR>
>                 the government and instead opt for a<BR>
>                 homegrown software system.<BR>
> <BR>
>                 Ministries would instead use ''Red Flag -<BR>
>                 Linux'', a new platform developed by Chinese<BR>
>                 researchers and based on upstart operating<BR>
>                 system Linux, the Yangcheng Evening News<BR>
>                 said.<BR>
> <BR>
>                 Officials at several government ministries said<BR>
>                 they were unaware of such a policy, which the<BR>
>                 newspaper said on Thursday would save the<BR>
>                 government billions of dollars.<BR>
> <BR>
>                 Weaning the mainland away from reliance<BR>
>                 upon Microsoft would be the Information age<BR>
>                 equivalent of China's nuclear and space age<BR>
>                 breakthroughs. ''Maintaining independence and<BR>
>                 keeping the initiative over our own operating<BR>
>                 system will be the 'Two Bombs and Satellite'<BR>
>                 of the new era,'' it quoted the officials as<BR>
>                 saying.<BR>
> <BR>
>                 Windows is still far and away the dominant<BR>
>                 operating system for personal computers in<BR>
>                 China. While piracy is rampant - reaching a<BR>
>                 rate of more than 90 per cent by some<BR>
>                 estimates - the Chinese government has said it<BR>
>                 uses legally registered copies.<BR>
> <BR>
>                 Windows 2000, designed to replace<BR>
>                 Microsoft's popular business-oriented<BR>
>                 Windows NT operating system, is scheduled<BR>
>                 to hit markets in China in the first half of this<BR>
>                 year.<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 02:45:37 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fashions and aging science fiction writers<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In defence of RAH, though, he did suffer a stroke during the period<BR>
> that he was writing The Number Of The Beast, and you can almost tell<BR>
> where in the book he was when it happened, as the book abruptly changes<BR>
> direction at that point. It was in TNOTB that he first started writing<BR>
> with lots of weird sex, a trend which continued in his novels thereafter<BR>
> (especially those featuring Lazarus Long and family)...<BR>
<BR>
I think you need to check your facts. The stroke occured while writing<BR>
"I Will Fear No Evil", which was *years* earlier. It's also arguably<BR>
the *worst* thing he ever wrote. Some years back Virginia Heinlein<BR>
confessed to having done the final draft on IWFNE because the deadline<BR>
was approaching and robert simply wasn't *able* to do it. <BR>
<BR>
IWFNE has some "weird sex". But as I noted before, that thread runs<BR>
back thru Heinlein's stuff. Consider Glory Road. Consider a few of<BR>
Heinlein's fantasy short stories. And consider what was publishable *at<BR>
all* at the time they were written.<BR>
<BR>
When the market allowed, he went right up to the limits.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 02:54:25 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> My story :<BR>
><BR>
> The funnniest RPG thing I've seen recently was during our Aliens: Apocalypse<BR>
> LARP. A group of players in full gear (cammo, headsets, & pulse rifles, some<BR>
> with realistic-looking  wounds done by a film make-up technician, were<BR>
> guarding the entrance to LARP venue.<BR>
><BR>
> Unfortunately there was a wedding reception next door, and several of the<BR>
> cars took the wrong gate. You can imagine the looks on the wedding party's<BR>
> faces when they were stopped by armed troops!<BR>
><BR>
> Reportedly the 'Sarge', the guy chewing the cigar stayed in character, and<BR>
> said to the driver "Sorry sir, this area is restricted. Your reception is<BR>
> over there."<BR>
><BR>
> The driver, looking worried, said "What's going on" so 'Sarge' said "<BR>
> Nothing to worry about sir, just a litle play-acting". The guy didn't look<BR>
> too convinced.<BR>
><BR>
> Later, as I was arriving, I was waved down by one of the wedding party as I<BR>
> approached the venue, warned about the military excercise, and asked to come<BR>
> inside.<BR>
><BR>
> See, I was dressed as a priest...<BR>
<BR>
At ORYCON I, we had to "share" the facilities on Friday. Which some<BR>
Baptist convention or some such. <BR>
<BR>
It was getting late, and some fen had set up the filk circle in one<BR>
"programming area" that was next to where the Baptists had wrapped up<BR>
their stuff. Some little old ladies wandered by and started to smaile<BR>
at us "odd children" signing a nice religious song. Then they sort of<BR>
froze as the *words* penetrated.<BR>
<BR>
We were signing the *fannish* version of "Old time Religion". Which,<BR>
shall we say, "differs greatly" from the version they are used to.<BR>
<BR>
Oh well, it could have been "Lord of the Dance". That's almost worse,<BR>
because it takes longer to realize the you "aren't in Kansas" anymore.<BR>
:-) <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 12:19:34 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: 101 Schools - What's Needed?<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE wrote:<BR>
> Location (minimum of world; city and region on that world would be<BR>
> even better)<BR>
<BR>
This would only be required for really famous schools. For less famous<BR>
ones, minimum ratings of TL, Law Level, etc would be better. That way,<BR>
the referee can place the school where it's needed.<BR>
<BR>
> Is the school public (in the American sense) or private?<BR>
<BR>
These concepts need to be explained, since some people outside of the US<BR>
(at least one person, ie me) don't know the exact meanings of these<BR>
terms.<BR>
<BR>
> Noteworthy departments (is the school, for instance, reknowned for<BR>
> its History department?)<BR>
<BR>
It would also be nice to add noteworthy ex-students (scientists, nobles,<BR>
military commanders and heroes). I'd bet the schools would want them<BR>
listed in any case ;-)<BR>
<BR>
> Admission requirements (Ex: Edu +2D > target number, modified by Soc<BR>
> in some way)<BR>
<BR>
I think that the admission system etc can (and should) be more varied<BR>
between schools than what is common in the "western world" on Earth. I<BR>
can imagine some Vilani schools have really odd admission requirements<BR>
dating back for centuries.<BR>
<BR>
Imagine a school only open to descendants of a specific person. The only<BR>
problem is that this person died more than 1000 years ago, and there is<BR>
currently a great number of descendants. To get admitted, you have to<BR>
supply proof of your relationship to that person (who might be the<BR>
founder of the school or somesuch).<BR>
<BR>
> Key NPCs:  Chancellor, Deans of at least some of the colleges,<BR>
> Department heads, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Again I should point out that being to similiar to the US for every<BR>
school would not be that interesting. Be creative when the organisation<BR>
is concerned. A school does not need a single figurehead as a leader.<BR>
Some schools might have a council, either composed of experts in the<BR>
various fields of study (feudal technocracy?), or of representatives of<BR>
the society outside of the school (corporate representatives, a<BR>
representative of the Imperial Navy, etc).<BR>
<BR>
> Key locations (where do students hang out off-campus, for instance?)<BR>
<BR>
As well as examples of annual events and other student-related<BR>
activities. A free trader crew arriving in town during the annual<BR>
one-week student masquerade is going to be surprised and confused.<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1695<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, January 7 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1696<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: It takes a Village<BR>
Re: Temps...<BR>
Re: 1st...<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial...<BR>
Re: Voice of Reason (Solomani Version)<BR>
Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
Re: Re MEn in Uniform [OT]<BR>
RE: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
RE: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
RE: A modest proposal (was: Re: MODERATOR and Re: More...)<BR>
Re: Re BITS Millenium Adv.<BR>
Re: A modest proposal (was: Re: MODERATOR and Re: More...)<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
RE: 101 Schools - What's Needed?<BR>
Re: It takes a Village<BR>
Re:  The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
re: JFK<BR>
Re: Temps...<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1691<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 12:42:53 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
Erwin Fritz replied to Thing:<BR>
> > What little trinket might a PC routinely carry that would draw the<BR>
> > wrong assumptions on some world?<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, the PCs in my group carry guns ...<BR>
<BR>
LOL!<BR>
<BR>
How *original*...<BR>
<BR>
I imagine that jewelry would be a common source of wrong assumptions. A<BR>
male wearing jewelry would be unacceptable in some cultures. In other<BR>
cultures, jewelry would be a direct indicator of wealth, so the man<BR>
without any would be thought of as really poor...<BR>
<BR>
"Move along. You are not allowed to beg here."<BR>
<BR>
"But I am an Imperial Noble!"<BR>
<BR>
"Yeah, I've heard that one before. Now beat it, or you're going to spend<BR>
a few days locked up in a cell."<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 21:18:48 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: It takes a Village<BR>
<BR>
On 01/06/2000 18:19, SD Mooney wrote:.<BR>
> <BR>
> Dom (who increasingly likes the Consulate ;-) )<BR>
<BR>
But would you LIVE there if given the chance?????? :) :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 03:17:56 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Temps...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>> " Temperature: The interior of a normal ship is about<BR>
>>> 25 degrees C [77 F]." - CT Sup. 7 Traders & Gunboats<BR>
>>> p. 7.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Given this bit of canon we need top ask what kind<BR>
>>> of clothes most people tend to wear when it is this<BR>
>>> temperature?<BR>
>><BR>
>> I don't know *where* they got that figure, but "standard" room temp is<BR>
>> more like 70F (21C). And 20C (68F) is often quoted as "normal".<BR>
<BR>
> From working briefly in the local hospital, I understood that 24C was the<BR>
> norm - give or take a degree?<BR>
<BR>
That may be in the hospital hospital, but 75 F (24 C) hasn't been<BR>
"normal" room temp most places in the US for a *long* time. For one<BR>
thing, after the oil embargo back in the 70s, it was *law* that public<BR>
places had to keep it down to 68-70 (20-21). <BR>
<BR>
And it's *expensive* to keep a house that warm (24 C)<BR>
<BR>
I can understand in a hospital where they have so many people in those<BR>
skimpy "robes". But not elsewhere.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 03:12:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 1st...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>> And is it against the law there to threaten someone?  In Oz (and<BR>
>>> perhaps the U.K.?), police cannot act on a threat (unless you can<BR>
>>> "pay" them to, by being influential... but even then they can only<BR>
>>> look into it - I just got that from the horses mouth a few minutes<BR>
>>> ago, a copper mate).<BR>
<BR>
>> It depends. You'd need a laywer to detail the ins and outs of that one.<BR>
><BR>
> Damn it Leonard, you normally have an answer for everything mate!  When I'd<BR>
> seen you had replied, I thought you had an answer for me!<BR>
><BR>
> True, I'm one of those people that think you are one of those people that<BR>
> know everything... but I mean that in a nice way :^)<BR>
<BR>
Let's just say I'm kinda burned out on that topic currently. If you<BR>
want to know why, visit dejanews or one of the other archive sites and<BR>
go thru the last month or so on alt.callahans. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 03:16:08 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Must be an American thing?  My "fet gear" is a steal grey/green suit with<BR>
> double breasted jacket, motor boots, black shirt, and a bright red tie.  I<BR>
> mentioned it to some fellow kinksters (including the local "leader" of the<BR>
> old guard gay BDSM community) and they had never heard of it either.<BR>
><BR>
> Which, as an ObTrav:  Imagine the trouble one just might get into for<BR>
> wearing such clothing (normally worn where you come from), on another world<BR>
> where it may send quite a different message?  Sexual,  societal, or<BR>
> political?<BR>
<BR>
Say, wearing a brown shirt of the right(wrong) type when visiting a<BR>
(worried) neighbor country of a would-be Hitler on a balkanized world. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 03:10:13 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Voice of Reason (Solomani Version)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Try to dig up a copy of a book a friend gave me for Christmas about 10<BR>
>> years back:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> "Chekisty: History of the KGB" (and it's predecessors...)<BR>
>> <BR>
>> When someone at work commented on it I merely smiled and said I was<BR>
>> studying it for tips on administering the LAN. :-)<BR>
><BR>
> It help any?<BR>
<BR>
Not really. We couldn't get permission to have our two biggest<BR>
"problems" sent off to count trees.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 03:24:08 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> I'm not paranoid.  I'm a bisexual man in America.  Every year at Pride<BR>
>> there are the protestors, who come with such seething hate that you can<BR>
>> feel it.<BR>
><BR>
> Shame, but not a reason to worry.<BR>
><BR>
> Their hatred makes them easy to control.<BR>
> Be nice to them, it'll make them more annoyed and they may burst a blood<BR>
> vessel.<BR>
><BR>
>> Check out a few of the Usenet groups like<BR>
>> alt.politics.homosexual, and count the number of death threats.<BR>
><BR>
> You see death threats in just about any newsgroup or list that is<BR>
> unmoderated.<BR>
> Hell, I saw death threats in sci.physics.fusion before it became moderated.<BR>
> It's a part of Usenet.<BR>
><BR>
> Perhaps you get more in a.p.h, but that's probably because so many males in<BR>
> the world are so scared of homosexuality, unfortunately.<BR>
> But are any of the threats ever acted on ?<BR>
<BR>
During the period I memtioned in another post, when the anti-gays folks<BR>
were *really* pushing for that law, and making all their speeches and<BR>
the like, we had numerous beatings. We had a reporter (with an<BR>
invitiation!) *physically* thrown out of a press conference called by<BR>
the anti-gay folks for being gay (she sued, and won, the guy who threw<BR>
her out was *way* over the top with regards to excessive force). And we<BR>
had a pair of gays die in a *firebombing* of their apartement. And yes,<BR>
nobody thinks it was motivated by anything *other* than the fact that<BR>
they were gay, and were lobbying against the anti-gay law.<BR>
<BR>
> The reason I'm blase about death threats (whether in email or real life ) is<BR>
> because I've dealt with _real_ threats to my life, not words on a screen.<BR>
<BR>
> The dangerous ones aren't going to threaten you first.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe not. But some do. And in the case of stuff aimed at a *group*,<BR>
such as gays, for every one that makes a threat, there are others who<BR>
will cheerfully commit the same sort of attack that he threatens.<BR>
<BR>
> BTW, pervert is a specialist term, are you actually a pervert, or just<BR>
> bisexual ?<BR>
> <grin><BR>
<BR>
<sigh> <BR>
<BR>
According to the OCA, "homosexual", "bisexual", "pervert", "child<BR>
molester" and a whole bunch of other things are identical. Listening to<BR>
folks like them (and noting just how *close* the votes have been many<BR>
times) is enough to set one to wondering how long it'd be before they<BR>
set up "camps" if they managed to come to power.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 03:02:30 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re MEn in Uniform [OT]<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>> It must be the bars I hang out in, I have NEVER seen a man come into a bar<BR>
>>> in his uniform.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Kiri  =)<BR>
><BR>
> The wierdest I've seen was a gent in the USAF... he showed up not only in<BR>
> uniform, but in DRAG (Full female uniform), complete with his own nametag<BR>
> and ribbons, Class B uniform. Including the "Tab" that goes at the collar...<BR>
><BR>
> Oh, BTW, did I forget to mention the bar was the one in the Kashim, the NCO<BR>
> Club on Elemendorf, and this was back in about 1990... just before Don't<BR>
> Ask, Don't Tell.<BR>
<BR>
I know someone who while a warrant officer in the Navy, was also a<BR>
member of a "gaming group" that covered the spectrum from the<BR>
1:umpty-thousand scale naval miniatures to 1:1 scale "war games" (with<BR>
surplus or "collector" *vehicles* out in the Mojave.<BR>
<BR>
One year, for Halloween, he borrowed a few things and made arrangements<BR>
with some of the vehicle collectors. <BR>
<BR>
So come the night of the big party, a WWII German Staff car with<BR>
motorcycle escort drives up. He gets out in an SS "Colonel"'s<BR>
uniform and enters the party. <BR>
<BR>
His immediate superior sees him and just about blows a gasket. Alas for<BR>
the irate superior, the base commander thought it was funny. (I suspect<BR>
that this may not have been an "accident"). <BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav: I doubt there will be any issues at all amongst the official<BR>
> policies of the 3I uniformed services about gender basis for uniforms,<BR>
> except for matters of tailoring. I suspect the question will be something<BR>
> like "Boxers, briefs, pantyhose, hip-huggers, bikinis, fishnets, or<BR>
> supporter?" as opposed to the modern "Boxers or Briefs" bit I got asked<BR>
> back in '87 at Ft. Dix...<BR>
><BR>
> I fully expect skirts/kilts/coolats to be available for either gender.<BR>
<BR>
"Cullottes"<BR>
<BR>
> One of my players (not his character) discovered large women's<BR>
> coolats are extremely comfy for around the house wear... he just<BR>
> won't wear them in public.<BR>
<BR>
In hot weather a light "dress" (aka SCA "robe") is a *lot* more<BR>
comfortable than trousers *or* shorts.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:19:50 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
<BR>
Josh W. Spencer wrote:<BR>
> HA! I got you guys beat four ways to the wind....my dad <BR>
> taught me how to<BR>
> make and eat peanut butter, sugar and bologna sandwiches. YUMMMMMMM!!<BR>
<BR>
That's pretty bad ... I'll have to try it!  Meanwhile, I've met a<BR>
couple of people who like peanut butter and marmite on very burnt<BR>
toast, and I had a flatmate who liked tobasco sauce sandwiches.<BR>
<BR>
I suppose I should do an ObTrav ... what foods do people  use  in<BR>
their TUs?  I've got the Babylon 5 cook book, I use some of those<BR>
recipies combined with Norse cooking  for  a  Sword  Worlds  sub-<BR>
campaign last year.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:40:45 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
<BR>
Durham? If I remember, you run dowm the A19 to Leeds, turn onto the<BR>
M62 Eastbound, come off at Huddersfield and head towards Todmorden.<BR>
You'll see the signs for Hebden Bridge on the way.<BR>
<BR>
I will be there to.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Nick<BR>
Bradbeer<BR>
Sent: 04 January 2000 01:03<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Roadshows<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Well a traveller /// TML Game in Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK.<BR>
>March 11th and 12th<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hmm......how far is this place from Durham? I'll be back at Uni then<BR>
and I'd<BR>
love to go.<BR>
<BR>
(I don't drive, so I'll need some kind of public transport link.)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:36:07 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Please, people, stop talking drivel. California law applies to<BR>
California and not, for instance, to me in the UK. Please be aware of<BR>
sensible jurisdictional boundaries and don't fill the list with<BR>
discussion that should be either private mail or handled through your<BR>
legal representatives.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Luther<BR>
Martin<BR>
Sent: 03 January 2000 22:20<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I certainly don't want to go back and sift through past messages to<BR>
get the<BR>
exact context of this citation, but that<BR>
looks more like a terrorist *question* to me. Are those forbidden by<BR>
California law also?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
To: traveller mailing aa list <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Cc: <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 1:06 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> >Subject: Re: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
> >At 02:08 AM 1/2/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> >>    Is it so bad, that I want to see the blood of every GURPS<BR>
> >>player, outside of their body, in vast amounts?<BR>
> >Send me your address.  Now.  You are making terrorist threats<BR>
> >and I will *not* stand for it.<BR>
><BR>
> My understanding of the present state of the law -- which may be<BR>
> wrong -- is that if he's making terroristic threats in violation<BR>
> of California law, it doesn't matter where he's sending them<BR>
> from, as long as they are coming somehow into California.  This<BR>
> is an even better case than the California adult web site owners<BR>
> who were prosecuted in Tennessee for violating Tennessee's<BR>
> obscenity laws.<BR>
><BR>
> Doug, why don't you call the DA?  This looks like an interesting<BR>
> case.<BR>
><BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
> http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:30:55 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: A modest proposal (was: Re: MODERATOR and Re: More...)<BR>
<BR>
A serious suggestion, and one that seems to work for the Amish <g>.<BR>
Why not have a 'shunning list' that gets published every month, as he<BR>
says? No-one replies to anyone on the list and they'd soon get cheesed<BR>
off.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jason T.<BR>
Barnabas<BR>
Sent: 04 January 2000 05:38<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: A modest proposal (was: Re: MODERATOR and Re: More...)<BR>
Importance: High<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In the past we have discussed alternate legal systems here<BR>
on the TML.  What I propose is a solution drawn from one or<BR>
more of those.  Rather than killing Legate Legion (i.e. kicking<BR>
him off the list), I propose we shun him for a period of one<BR>
month.<BR>
<BR>
If everyone ignores him for a month that might be sufficient<BR>
punishment to deter him from such a childish and uncultured<BR>
act in the future.<BR>
<BR>
You can signify your concurrence with this penalty by simply<BR>
ignoring everything he publishes for the next month.  By<BR>
ignore I mean do not publicly acknowledge his presence in<BR>
this forum.  Do not respond to anything he says, pretend that<BR>
he simply is not.  Today is the 3rd, it will take some of us a<BR>
few days to get the word, so I would say utterly ignore him<BR>
until after Sunday, the 6th of February.<BR>
<BR>
In my eyes, Legate Legion is dead until the 6th of February.  I<BR>
will not respond to him or to anyone who quotes him for that<BR>
period.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
______________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:13:45 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Re BITS Millenium Adv.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Not sure whether this is a threat or a promise, Dom. Or even whether it is<BR>
>a good or bad thing you released it.<BR>
<BR>
A good thing, definitively. I loved it. robably wont play it, but it gave <BR>
me immense reading pleasure! More like this please?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:50:18 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: A modest proposal (was: Re: MODERATOR and Re: More...)<BR>
<BR>
From: Mark Preston <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> A serious suggestion, and one that seems to work for the Amish <BR>
><g>. Why not have a 'shunning list' that gets published every month, <BR>
> as he says? No-one replies to anyone on the list and they'd soon <BR>
> get cheesed off.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, we could always take another suggestion from the Amish...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
...and churn our own butter!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:05:15 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
Yo Kiri, I wasn't thinking of you when I posted this.  I was thinking about<BR>
my bad experiences here on the east coast.  The women here have snubbed me<BR>
for 2 years and sometimes have been downright rude as to their ways of<BR>
rejecting date offers.  I never had this much trouble on the West Coast but<BR>
even there I was always put down for my looks.  This is the thing I was<BR>
getting on about.  You don't have to look like John Merrick in order to get<BR>
put down and made fun of and treated as worthless for relationships.  I<BR>
know.  I have lived 36 years of this.  I don't have looks and I don't have<BR>
lots of cash, so here on the east coast I'm less than shit.  One woman, met<BR>
online, when showed a picture of my mother and I, had the gall to ask, "oh<BR>
which one is you?".  she was deliberately being rude and that comment was<BR>
just one of many that have been uncalled for.<BR>
<BR>
For this reason, I primarily look for women who don't have much to offer<BR>
physically.  You're right, most people gravitate towards what is<BR>
aesthetically pleasing to them. But that isn't me.  Beautiful women want<BR>
nothing to do with me.   Hell, if I had what I wanted, I'd be with Mary<BR>
Steenburgen when she was 26 (see "Time After Time").  Another thing and not<BR>
necessarily the rule, plain women tend to be more reliable because they've<BR>
had to overcome more than 'Barbie dolls' who get men at the drop of a<BR>
napkin.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 3:15 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> You're confusing two issues and I have to disagree with you.<BR>
><BR>
> We cannot help "liking" people based on their appearance.  Not when it<BR>
comes<BR>
> to sexuality, Jory.  As someone who has distinct physical preferences in<BR>
> partners that are different from the norm for my apparent age/race/size, I<BR>
> find that this "You should like people based on their minds" stuff<BR>
generally<BR>
> gets aimed at me by people who resent my choices while never considering<BR>
the<BR>
> reasons behind their own.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:07:03 +0000<BR>
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
Subject: Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
Frankie wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>The driver, looking worried, said "What's going on" so 'Sarge' said "<BR>
>Nothing to worry about sir, just a litle play-acting". The guy didn't look<BR>
>too convinced.<BR>
<BR>
>Later, as I was arriving, I was waved down by one of the wedding party as<BR>
I<BR>
>approached the venue, warned about the military excercise, and asked to<BR>
come<BR>
>inside.<BR>
<BR>
>See, I was dressed as a priest...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
OK, I give up.  I've been trying hard not to be thrown by the obvious<BR>
attempts to get me to break into the slightest grin.  But this deserves a<BR>
4.0!<BR>
<BR>
tc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:10:48 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 101 Schools - What's Needed?<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE wrote:<BR>
> What information do you folks think would be needed to present<BR>
> an institution of higher learning (as something other than the <BR>
> focus of an adventure)?<BR>
><BR>
> I can see the following information as necessary:<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
In addition to the entry  requirements  I  would  the  chance  of<BR>
getting a degree, and add EDU and skill bonus for attenting, etc,<BR>
so that these institutions can be  substituted  for  the  generic<BR>
'college' in CGen.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 08:31:01 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: It takes a Village<BR>
<BR>
"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > >You want to know who the black hats really are?  It's the Impie<BR>
> > >imperialists!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Well, I notice that both the Solomani and the Zhodani are open and<BR>
> > honest about the existence of their plain clothes police unit (SolSec<BR>
> > and the Tvarchedl').<BR>
> ><BR>
> > What are the Impies hiding, eh?<BR>
> <BR>
> IRIS !!!<BR>
<BR>
Heck, they even hide _that_ gang from the Emperor!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 05:26:52 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re:  The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> What sort of frickin' sicko PERVERT would want to make it with a<BR>
> Harvard graduate?  <BR>
<BR>
I was not aware you knew my paternal Grandmother, Kenji. <BR>
But I think it would be preferable to refer to her as<BR>
"differentially sane" than as a "frickin' sicko PERVERT".<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:21:10 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
When John Diefenbaker was in Mexico (as PM) he made a short speach in<BR>
>Spanish. Everyone politely applauded, then the Mexican President thanked<BR>
>him for addressing them in his native French.<BR>
<BR>
Jimmy Carter expressed his great lust for the Polish people in '78.<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
I can't recall which American president this anecdote refers to, and<BR>
it may be urban legend:<BR>
<BR>
The President is at a foriegn state function, and addresses the assembled<BR>
worthies in English, as he doesn't speak the indiginous tongue. The people<BR>
are very attentive, cheer in lots of places, give him a standing ovation at<BR>
the end, really give a good reception to the speech.<BR>
<BR>
After he sits down, a government official stands up and starts a speech<BR>
in the native tongue. The President, wanting to be polite, cheers loudly<BR>
along with the crowd whenever they cheer, applauding and such.<BR>
<BR>
Halfway through the speech, a minister taps the president on the<BR>
shoulder. "I don't think you should cheer so loudly, Mr. President."<BR>
"Why not?"<BR>
"Because you're cheering a translation of your own speech."<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 08:42:17 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Temps...<BR>
<BR>
"David P. Summers" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:43:54 +1000<BR>
> >From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> >I don't know *where* they got that figure, but "standard" room temp is<BR>
> >more like 70F (21C). And 20C (68F) is often quoted as "normal".<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, in Chemistry "Room Temperature" is usually assumed to be<BR>
> 25C.  I don't know why....<BR>
<BR>
Are they working with silver salts? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:42:52 EST<BR>
From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1691<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/7/00 2:21:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Not true. But since "straight white males" are members of the majority,<BR>
 they *are* the most likely to be the perps in crimes against<BR>
 minorities.  >><BR>
<BR>
In a local depressed city, near the city of Detroit, there for a long time <BR>
was a neighborhood of white southerners transplanted for auto factory jobs. <BR>
Most of them were second/third generation, but as they lived together they <BR>
kept many poor white 40s attitudes, and they got poor again as the good <BR>
factory jobs got harder to get.<BR>
The Feds, in their brilliance, contracted for a very nearby apartment complex <BR>
to become section 8 housing, and moved mostly black inner-city <BR>
multigenerational welfare families into it, from the very nasty Detroit <BR>
projects. There was a wall between the two, but you could get around it, plus <BR>
the nearby supermarket and phone bank were a common destination.<BR>
1. When a black got beat up by whites [fists only] it was ethnic <BR>
intimidation, a felony.<BR>
2. When a white got it from the other side fists only, simple assault, a <BR>
misdemeanor.<BR>
<BR>
In my memory and that of the local attorneys I worked with, there was one <BR>
minority ever charged with ethnic intimidation in the county [we were BSing <BR>
about 'the wall'], it was a visiting judge and he allowed the charge, even <BR>
after the public outcry that minorities are incapable of race hatred. [Judges <BR>
here are elected, so a local judge has to be aware of his/her public face]<BR>
<BR>
I know there is a local active on the list, who probably knows the city I am <BR>
talking about, but for the rest of you the city got control of the project, <BR>
converted it into closely controlled 42 housing, with more working people and <BR>
a real mix of races, as well as throwing out any trouble makers quickly, and <BR>
also cracked down on the houses. Things are much better now, even the run <BR>
down supermarket just got remodeled this summer.<BR>
<BR>
My point? Silly PC crap gets into the system all the time, all it take is a <BR>
relatively small interest group with media access or political money to keep <BR>
it there once it is sneaked in. Strictly legally were both sides guilty of <BR>
ethnic intimidation? Yes. Since the police, prosecutors, and judges not <BR>
willing to charge the blacks, and the local power groups were willing to back <BR>
that attitude with their media clout,  were they bound by that law? Nope.<BR>
<BR>
You can't imagine one world going all the way, and letting crimes by one <BR>
group go entirely?<BR>
<BR>
Gary<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1696<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1697</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, January 7 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1697<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
RE: 101 Schools - What's Needed?<BR>
Judges Guild--hmmm<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re:  SJG bashing<BR>
RE: fashions (long)<BR>
RE: fashions<BR>
Re: Battlestar Galactica<BR>
Re: Voice of Reason (Solomani Version)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1681<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1689<BR>
Finding People<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1684<BR>
RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re:  SJG bashing<BR>
Re: Voice of Reason (Solomani Version)<BR>
Re: OT but interesting.<BR>
RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
Digest<BR>
RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: not really Re: Rat Dogs<BR>
Re: Tchai for Traveller<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:50:17 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: GURPS vs. T5?<BR>
<BR>
Mark Preston wrote:<BR>
> Please, people, stop talking drivel. California law applies to<BR>
> California and not, for instance, to me in the UK. Please be aware of<BR>
> sensible jurisdictional boundaries and don't fill the list with<BR>
> discussion that should be either private mail or handled through your<BR>
> legal representatives.<BR>
<BR>
Two points:<BR>
<BR>
1) I find that the occasional (and limited discussion) about  law<BR>
   in other countries can be useful as a  Traveller  Ref  ...  it<BR>
   illustrates variations on issues even in similar cultures  and<BR>
   helps MTU not be so homogeneous.<BR>
<BR>
2) Actually "sensible jurisdictional boundaries" no longer  apply<BR>
   to UK citizens (at the whim of Parliament).  There are only  a<BR>
   few examples I'm aware of so far but the  precedent  has  been<BR>
   made: UK laws can be applied to UK citizens outside the UK!<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 06:54:42 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 101 Schools - What's Needed?<BR>
<BR>
On Thursday, January 06, 2000 5:15 PM<BR>
Black ICE said,<BR>
<BR>
> What information do you folks think would be needed to present an<BR>
> institution of higher learning (as something other than the<BR>
> focus of an adventure)?<BR>
<BR>
Well, since this is an RPG we would need a map of the steam tunnels. ;0<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
======<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:12:41 -0500<BR>
From: "J. Mark Brooks" <jmbrooks@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Judges Guild--hmmm<BR>
<BR>
They are back with the City-State of the Invincible Overlord.  Fascinating.<BR>
I used to have the World-Emperor's City, as I recall.<BR>
<BR>
They apparently have a lot of their Traveller stuff back as well.  I never<BR>
pick up the Glimmerdrift Reaches.  Anyone have any comments on that<BR>
particular supplement?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 06:03:27 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you [Peter Newman] write:<BR>
<BR>
> > " Temperature: The interior of a normal ship is about<BR>
> > 25 degrees C [77 F]." - CT Sup. 7 Traders & Gunboats <BR>
> > p. 7.<BR>
<BR>
> At 77 degrees I and a number of people I know will be wearing as little<BR>
> as we can get away with. Because it's way outside our "comfort zone".<BR>
<BR>
Then would be wearing shorts & a short sleeved shirt? Or<BR>
is it so far outside your comfort zone that you'd prefer<BR>
to be shirtless?<BR>
<BR>
Comfort zones vary, mine is centered at 76F. I am colder working<BR>
at a desk, or watching a movie at 68F than I am going for a walk<BR>
at 35F wearing identical clothing. <BR>
<BR>
> I don't know *where* they got that figure, but "standard" room temp is<BR>
> more like 70F (21C). And 20C (68F) is often quoted as "normal".<BR>
<BR>
I thought that 70F was the standard that was heated to if <BR>
it was cooler but that 77F was fairly close to the standard <BR>
that many _cooled_to_ if it was warmer. [Especially 20+ years <BR>
ago  when Sup 7 was written & air-conditioning was less <BR>
prevalent.]  Spaceships will need to be cooled rather than <BR>
heated. Perhaps at TL 8 or early TL 9 or so the few percentage <BR>
of power savings you get by cooling to 77F instead of 70F <BR>
was significant. On "modern" [TL 10+} starships this savings <BR>
is no longer needed but never less ships are maintained at <BR>
77F due to tradition. [See jump dimming for a parallel example.]<BR>
What temperature is the Space Shuttle kept at? <BR>
<BR>
I also note that keeping the insides of their spaceships somewhat<BR>
warmer than that of a typical American, much less European, room<BR>
[at TL 8] may be one of the ways the Imperium encourages ship<BR>
travelers to wear skimpier clothing.] Who is more likely to <BR>
get their clothing caught in the zipper of their rescue ball and<BR>
die of vacuum exposure, a passenger wearing little clothing or <BR>
a passenger (on a cooler ship) wearing more clothing? Having<BR>
your (non low) passengers die on you, even in the admittedly <BR>
unlikely event of a vacuum emergency is probably not good for<BR>
business.<BR>
<BR>
On a less series note I suggest that keeping their ships<BR>
warm to encourage their passengers and crew mates to wear<BR>
skimpier clothing may be one of the ways ship Captains<BR>
ensure that they get a free show and may get laid more <BR>
frequently. Out of sight, out of mind is not totally untrue <BR>
when it comes to human reproductive behavior. <BR>
<BR>
I also note that the excuse of warm starships provide an <BR>
excellent excuse for more Traveller art featuring scantily <BR>
clad babes & hunks which should help Traveller sales & provide <BR>
eye candy for Traveller fans.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:10:04 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
On Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:43 PM<BR>
Glenn St-Germain said,<BR>
<BR>
> I have a sensitivity to sunlight<BR>
> such that I don't dare venture outside by day without sunglasses on.<BR>
> Anything brighter than a heavy overcast is uncomfortable, and in full<BR>
> direct sunlight I can't see at all. In a case like that, what would I<BR>
> do?<BR>
<BR>
Move to Seattle.  Most days we only have 1 cloud in the sky, it just<BR>
stretches from horizon to horizon.  Occasionally the gods get angry tho<BR>
and the great ball of fire does appear in the sky.<BR>
<BR>
One cloud to rule them all,<BR>
One cloud to not blind them;<BR>
One cloud to rule them all,<BR>
And in Seattle bind them.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 06:12:25 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re:  SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com> wrote<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>"AOL sucks" is not an appropriate<BR>
> conclusion to draw based on the fact that a large proportion of<BR>
> AOL users are clueless, or whiny pimply teenagers who haven't<BR>
> discovered ... ummm ... autoeroticism, much less that there are<BR>
> people out there ... with complementary plumbing,<BR>
<BR>
All plumbing is complementary in the sense that it<BR>
came be made to fit together with sufficient incentive,<BR>
creativity, and lubricants.<BR>
<BR>
No plumbing is complementary (i.e. free). [Although<BR>
converting ones self over to having no plumbing might be<BR>
free if one already had the bolt cutters, match, needle<BR>
& thread that's not really what I mean.] All relationships<BR>
have a price. (Usually in terms of time, flowers, etc<BR>
rather than in terms of cash; but I've heard that some <BR>
encounters and/or relationships are of a commercial<BR>
nature, I've heard there is even a profession based on<BR>
transactions of this nature.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:20:12 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: fashions (long)<BR>
<BR>
On Thursday, January 06, 2000 6:02 PM<BR>
Jory Earl said,<BR>
<BR>
> Well, there goes my idea for a new vargr-killing gun, the CGMP-15.<BR>
> (chocolate gun, Man-portable)<BR>
<BR>
It may not be good for killing Vargr, but from what I have seen it might<BR>
have its uses in a pacification campaign against those pesky female<BR>
Aslan in comfortable shoes.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
======<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 15:40:15 +0000<BR>
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
Subject: RE: fashions<BR>
<BR>
>>>Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
>>>Thirdly... as a female.... I don't want to be too crude here... but<BR>
there<BR>
>>>are valid reasons for at least a loincloth and most cultures do at least<BR>
>>>wear some kind of skirt/briefs.  To put it bluntly, I don't want to sit<BR>
on<BR>
>>>a chair that another woman has been sitting in not wearing any panties.<BR>
>>>ESPECIALLY not 3-7 days out of every 28 or so, but really not at any<BR>
time.<BR>
>>>And most men aren't too comfortable letting their dangly bits just<BR>
dangle.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>I'd written:<BR>
>>IIRC, Heinlein often had families on board spacecraft (where they could<BR>
set<BR>
>>the temperature to whatever they wanted) wearing nothing at all.  I<BR>
confess<BR>
>>to being intrigued as to the practicality of this as a teenager!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com> continued:<BR>
>I just thought of something, in re-reading Kiri's comments above...<BR>
>one thing that a nudist/naturist always has with him/her is also something<BR>
>that a seasoned space traveller is never without -- a towel! And tc's<BR>
>reply mentioning Heinlein just proved that there is, in fact, a connection<BR>
>between the two.<BR>
<BR>
>(Notes:<BR>
>    1. The towel in SF if from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.<BR>
>    2. Nudists/naturists use their towels to sit on.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
And if anyone has been struck by this discussion, my travels on the web<BR>
yesterday that the thread kicked off, turned up this:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
http://www.mbay.net/~cgd/naturism/nudesf.htm<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
An interesting list of nudity in SF with Heinlein well detailed.<BR>
<BR>
To my surprise Asimov made an appearance.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
tc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 09:43:59 -0600<BR>
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica<BR>
<BR>
Glenn St-Germain wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> All this discussion of the Cylons on Battlestar Galactica have reminded<BR>
> me that Space, Canada's SF cable channel, is beginning to run that series<BR>
> starting this coming Saturday at 6:00 pm Eastern, 4:00 pm Mountain...<BR>
> but the channel is available only in Canada.<BR>
<BR>
Sci-Fi ran the whole series here in the US on one day--Christmas.  I taped<BR>
the whole thing.<BR>
<BR>
It's amazing how much I remembered from watching it in junior high.  I<BR>
haven't seen the show since then, and with most of the episodes, I could<BR>
remember what was going to happen.<BR>
<BR>
Kenneth.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 07:09:53 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Voice of Reason (Solomani Version)<BR>
<BR>
"Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
<BR>
> On the discussion of what is the proper analogy to the Solomani<BR>
> Confederation, SolSec, etc:  The best analogies, IMHO, are apartheid-era<BR>
> South Africa, and the Confederacy in America.  In both cases you have<BR>
> considerable freedom for the privileged group, combined with a nasty<BR>
> security apparatus keeping the unprivileged groups under control, as well<BR>
> as keeping an eye on "traitors".<BR>
<BR>
I concur that the Solomani Confederation has some <BR>
similarities to apartheid era South Africa but I note<BR>
that whites are a minority in South Africa while<BR>
Solomani are apparently a majority in the Confederation<BR>
this suggests some differences in the societies,<BR>
<BR>
Using BOSS, the South African Bureau of State Security,<BR>
as a model for SolSec is quite appropriate.<BR>
<BR>
[I recommend the novels of Tom Sharpe such as Riotous <BR>
Assembly and Indecent Exposure for those who wish to learn<BR>
more about about the South African police under the former<BR>
regime. They are very funny.]<BR>
<BR>
The game Space Opera apparently used the South African<BR>
BOSS as the model for its secret police agency BOSS and<BR>
barely bothered to file off the serial numbers when they <BR>
did so.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> The Confederacy also has the State egotism element that the Solomani<BR>
> exhibit.  <BR>
> <BR>
> And, of course, there are the post-Civil War supremacist groups, which<BR>
> spread well beyond the former Confederacy.  These are your Rule of Terra<BR>
> type groups.<BR>
<BR>
[Solomani Mode:] It is so good to see a proper understanding<BR>
of the glorious role that Rule of Terra plays in the <BR>
struggle against the Mongrel-Men of the evil Imperium. I <BR>
urge all true 100% Solomani to rush out and see that great <BR>
motion picture masterpiece "Birth of a Confederation".<BR>
<BR>
In "Birth of a Confederation" the acclaimed 100% true race <BR>
director W.G. Diffith portrays the true story of the <BR>
ignominious story of the treacherous alien loving Impies <BR>
conquered holy mother Terra. Diffith shows how 100% Solomani <BR>
patriots bravely and heroically resisted the alien <BR>
controlled Impie Marines [speaker pauses slightly to <BR>
wipe the foam from his lips] and their brutal trampling <BR>
of the Solomani way of life on ante bellum Terra. <BR>
<BR>
Birth of a Confederation stars Gillian Lish as the stalwart <BR>
100% Solomani heroine who must be rescued from a fate worse <BR>
than death at the vile non-human paws of a gang of wild <BR>
Doggies. Before the war members of lesser races, such as <BR>
the Vargr, worked happily in the agricultural complexes,<BR>
homes, and factories of their betters. Their furry faces <BR>
brimming with joy at working for their 100% Solomani <BR>
Patrons. After the war the Imperial Marines, the Impie<BR>
Civilian's (or battledress baggers) lurking on their <BR>
coattails and the uppity Doggies who, deprived of the <BR>
control of their Patrons that members of lesser races <BR>
need, ran wild and threatened the womanhood of our heroine <BR>
Miss Lish. Glory at the heroic struggle of the Phoenix <BR>
Resistance, marvel at their patriotic 100% white hooded <BR>
uniforms (white of course represents the purity of the <BR>
Solomani Race as it struggle's against the lesser races<BR>
who are of the unholy blood of their Great Evil, the <BR>
Ancients.<BR>
<BR>
Order your copy today!<BR>
<BR>
[SolSec agents are standing by to investigate the desloyal,<BR>
unpatriotic, race traitors who do not wish to own multiple<BR>
copies of theis accdlaimed cinematic masterpiece, [presented<BR>
in the original flat sreen format]. Only 50 Solomani Credits.<BR>
<BR>
[the preceding message has been brought to you at no<BR>
charge by the 100% loyal Solomani owners and operators<BR>
of this station. Thank you for your cooperation and please<BR>
enjoy a delicious bottle of Fizzy Bubble Beverage]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:55:03 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1681<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-01-05 23:25:45 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< By saying "Ich bin *ein* Berliner", he change the meaning of the sentence<BR>
 to "I am a jelly doughnut". Similarly, "Ich bin ein Frankfurter" would<BR>
 translate as "I am a sausage", not "I am from Frankfurt".<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
A similar sentence in English would be saying "I am a Danish." rather than "I <BR>
am Danish."<BR>
<BR>
Loren (who is not Danish, but was mistaken for a Dane while in Sweden 9 years <BR>
ago) Wiseman<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:55:03 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1689<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-01-06 17:59:55 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< > I mean, for heavens sake, you don't wear sunglasses in Japan unless<BR>
 you<BR>
 > are a yakuza (or wish to be thought one). >><BR>
<BR>
When I was much younger than I am now, I went to New York with a church group <BR>
- -- the girls were cautioned not to wear blue jeans as that was the "I am a <BR>
hooker" uniform.<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:55:02 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Finding People<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-01-05 19:17:42 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:01:46 +1300<BR>
 From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
 Subject: RE: Re Terrorism Threats<BR>
 <BR>
 > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E.<BR>
 > Berry<BR>
 <snip><BR>
 > Matthew Sheppard assumed he was going out for a good time.<BR>
 <BR>
 So ?  I always assume I'm going to have a good time as well.<BR>
 There's no point in doing otherwise.<BR>
 <BR>
 > People on this list know my name, and the city I live in.<BR>
 > My picture is up on my web site.  They know I drive for<BR>
 > Super Shuttle.  They also have been told that I will be<BR>
 > at BayCon this spring.<BR>
 ><BR>
 > With that information, you could find me easily.<BR>
 <BR>
 I hate to break it to you, Doug, as you're obviously already paranoid<BR>
 enough, but unless you post from an anonymizer or are doing other things to<BR>
 explicitly hide your identity, I could probably find you anyway, even<BR>
 without all that other information. It is remarkably easy to find someone<BR>
 based on just an email.<BR>
 <BR>
 Frankie >><BR>
<BR>
As far as I know, I am the only Loren K Wiseman in the USA -- at least with a <BR>
listed number -- there is a Lauren Wiseman in Chicago, but the middle initial <BR>
is different.<BR>
<BR>
Lorwn Wiseman<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:10:17 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1684<BR>
<BR>
I feel terrorized by this talk of hate crimes!<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
> The thing about "hate crimes" is that they are *intended* to not merely<BR>
> hurt the victim but to *terrorize* members of the "group" the victims<BR>
> belongs to. <BR>
<BR>
[snip the hate speech directed at HWMs]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:31:07 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, Thing wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Move to Seattle.  Most days we only have 1 cloud in the sky, it just<BR>
> stretches from horizon to horizon.  Occasionally the gods get angry tho<BR>
> and the great ball of fire does appear in the sky.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, come on, Thing, that's as bad as "Efate is a jungly planet" or<BR>
"Rhylanor, the savannah planet".  The summers in Seattle are pretty clear<BR>
& sunny.  I lived there for years and quaked in fear every July when that<BR>
bright thing came out and wouldn't go away for weeks on end.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:32:00 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re:  SJG bashing<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> All plumbing is complementary in the sense that it<BR>
> came be made to fit together with sufficient incentive,<BR>
> creativity, and lubricants.<BR>
> <BR>
> No plumbing is complementary (i.e. free). [Although<BR>
<BR>
But with advanced genetic engineering and so forth, will Travellers of the<BR>
Far Future ever encounter _complimentary_ plumbing?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:33:55 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Voice of Reason (Solomani Version)<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Using BOSS, the South African Bureau of State Security,<BR>
> as a model for SolSec is quite appropriate.<BR>
> <BR>
> [I recommend the novels of Tom Sharpe such as Riotous <BR>
> Assembly and Indecent Exposure for those who wish to learn<BR>
> more about about the South African police under the former<BR>
> regime. They are very funny.]<BR>
<BR>
Yes!  I remember laughing so hard I did not expel a drink through my nose,<BR>
but I expelled my breakfast through my nose and mouth.  They are destined<BR>
to be models for law enforcement agencies in any Trav game I run.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 10:42:28 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: OT but interesting.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> The following just seems kind of interesting.  There must be an OBTRAV in<BR>
> there somewhere.  "Of course", I'm just forwarding it, so I've lost some of<BR>
> the details of the source.<BR>
> <BR>
> Alan Bradley<BR>
> alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
> <BR>
> from REUTERS in Beijing<BR>
> ><BR>
> >                 Updated at 3.45pm:<BR>
> >                 China will ban use of Microsoft Corp's new<BR>
> >                 Windows 2000 operating system throughout<BR>
> >                 the government and instead opt for a<BR>
> >                 homegrown software system.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >                 Ministries would instead use ''Red Flag -<BR>
> >                 Linux'', a new platform developed by Chinese<BR>
> >                 researchers and based on upstart operating<BR>
> >                 system Linux, the Yangcheng Evening News<BR>
> >                 said.<BR>
<BR>
Oh boy! First thought: Now who's gonna enforce the GPL on _them_!!!???<BR>
<BR>
Second thought: about 17 zillion hackers are just starting to<BR>
salivate...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:47:54 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
On Friday, January 07, 2000 9:31 AM<BR>
Kenji Schwarz said,<BR>
<BR>
> Oh, come on, Thing, that's as bad as "Efate is a jungly planet" or<BR>
> "Rhylanor, the savannah planet".  The summers in Seattle are pretty<BR>
clear<BR>
> & sunny.  I lived there for years and quaked in fear every July when<BR>
that<BR>
> bright thing came out and wouldn't go away for weeks on end.<BR>
<BR>
Obviously you are not aware of the new anti-Californian regulations.<BR>
Any messages from the Seattle area mentioning sunny days are now<BR>
classified as a felony in an attempt to stem the tide of Californian<BR>
immigration.<BR>
<BR>
And as anyone who watches national news knows most of downtown Seattle<BR>
was destroyed in the riots and all of the coffee was looted.  The<BR>
released steam from all of the damaged espresso machines is causing a<BR>
local state of nuclear winter that will keep Seattle cloud shrouded for<BR>
at least another generation.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
Thing under the stairs,<BR>
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
==================================<BR>
"It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either<BR>
charming or tedious."-Oscar Wilde<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:25:47 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Digest<BR>
<BR>
Sadly I had to consign 102 messages to the void, as my mailer went funny and<BR>
refused to download them.<BR>
<BR>
Can I access archived digests anywhere?<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:23:04 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
Having time to mull over the replies now about nude IN crews ...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri wrote:<BR>
> I can't imagine this.  For one thing, the Imperial language is<BR>
> Galanglic, which means that Solomani culture is of western origin<BR>
> and that western values are dominant.<BR>
<BR>
And look how much 'western' values have changed in the  last  few<BR>
thousand  years!  That  includes  the  Roman  Empire's   slavery,<BR>
gladiators, and vestal virgins.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Thirdly... as a female.... I don't want to be too crude  here...<BR>
> but there are valid reasons for at least a loincloth and most<BR>
> cultures do at least wear some kind of skirt/briefs.  To put it<BR>
> bluntly, I don't want to sit on a chair that another woman has<BR>
> been sitting in not wearing any panties. ESPECIALLY not 3-7 days<BR>
> out of every 28 or so, but really not at any time.<BR>
<BR>
I would think that by TL15 medical science would have  progressed<BR>
to the point where the "pill" doesn't just stop ovulation but the<BR>
whole menstral cycle.  Just think: no more cramps, no  more  mood<BR>
swings (beyond ther normal), no more buying things with wings  to<BR>
stuff down your pants.<BR>
<BR>
And in a similar vein, the TL15 equivalent  of  bromide  for  the<BR>
male crew will prevent minor  embarassing  moments  (as  well  as<BR>
reducing crew fraternisation problems).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I can see minimal clothing but I can't see none.  I think<BR>
> something like briefies would be essential and any woman with<BR>
> enough up top to jiggle would want a sports bra.  If you have<BR>
> to run and your chest bounces, it may look cute but it HURTS.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm ... maybe a lack of jiggle-able tissue would  be  a  medical<BR>
entry requirement for the IN.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Besides, I wouldn't want to work with heavy equipment with my<BR>
> nipples exposed.  And when I'm in the lab I want proper attire.<BR>
<BR>
Certainly there  would  be  protective  clothing  for  engineers,<BR>
scientists, vets, and away mission personnel.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The other problem was  the  lack  of  pockets.  In  a  high  tech<BR>
environment I would think there is less that you  need  to  carry<BR>
(no physical money or keys, for example).  Also the hair  on  the<BR>
forearms and chest and elsewhere could be genetically altered  to<BR>
have velco-like properties to hold lightweight items (like  small<BR>
PADDs or spare ammo  magazines).  Nipple  rings  could  serve  as<BR>
conveinent teather points for lightweight equipment, too.<BR>
<BR>
(Or is all this getting a lttle bit too sureal?)<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:28:48 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> Thing wrote:<BR>
.........1.........2.........3.........4.........5.........6.....<BR>
> > Move to Seattle.  Most days we only have 1 cloud in the sky,<BR>
> > it just stretches from horizon to horizon.  Occasionally the<BR>
> > gods get angry tho and the great ball of fire does appear in<BR>
> > the sky.<BR>
> <BR>
> Oh, come on, Thing, that's as bad as "Efate is a jungly planet"<BR>
> or "Rhylanor, the savannah planet".<BR>
<BR>
You missed off the old JTAS favorite:<BR>
<BR>
    "Its raining on planet Mongo!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:38:02 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: not really Re: Rat Dogs<BR>
<BR>
>> Hey now, that's no way to talk about Wall of Voodoo!  Their version of <BR>
"Ring<BR>
>> of Fire" is better than any other...<BR>
><BR>
>I have to disagree there Jim, The Beat Farmers version is second only to<BR>
>the Man in Blacks.<BR>
<BR>
 Oh? I thought that was "Karma Chameleon."<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:37:10 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Tchai for Traveller<BR>
<BR>
"Adventures on Tschai", Space Gamer #40, June 1981,  Steve Winter<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <GypsyComet@aol.com><BR>
> >>There was an old article  (c. 1982), published with approval I believe,<BR>
set on Jack Vance's world Tchai, placed c. 150 parsecs rimward of Terra.  I<BR>
have it buried in my basement somewhere.  It always impressed me as a wide<BR>
open campaign setting.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >    I've always wanted to do that! Can you tell me what publication it is<BR>
in?<BR>
><BR>
>  Space Gamer, during the SJG era of that magazine's long history.  I'll<BR>
see if I can track down the specific issue.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1697<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, January 7 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1698<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Digest<BR>
Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
Grav Pong (was re: Turbolifts)<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
food for dogs (was Re: fashions (long))<BR>
Re: Grav Pong (was re: Turbolifts)<BR>
Re: Grav Pong (was re: Turbolifts)<BR>
Re: Battlestar Galactica<BR>
RE: Grav Pong (was re: Turbolifts)<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: Finding People<BR>
Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
Grav-Pong<BR>
RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
RE: Old...<BR>
RE: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
Grav Pong<BR>
Re: Re MEn in Uniform [OT]<BR>
RE: food for dogs (was Re: fashions (long))<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: fashions<BR>
Re: Battlestar Galactica<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:35:38 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Digest<BR>
<BR>
>Can I access archived digests anywhere?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Don't worry - I just read the helpfile....duh.<BR>
<BR>
NB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:41:43 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird food (was: Terrorism Threats)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
<BR>
>HA! I got you guys beat four ways to the wind....my dad taught <BR>
>me how to make and eat peanut butter, sugar and bologna<BR>
>sandwiches. YUMMMMMMM!!<BR>
<BR>
and I thought _my_ old man was abusive ...<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:41:54 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Grav Pong (was re: Turbolifts)<BR>
<BR>
Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>
>> moving the ship. Even a Free Trader should be able to turn any<BR>
>>corridor into a deadly bottomless pit by turning off the gravity<BR>
>> and reversing the inertial comp every couple of seconds.<BR>
<BR>
>Yep.... This maneuver is called Grav Pong.<BR>
<BR>
Yep. The ability to do Grav Pong means that there will seldom, if ever,<BR>
be a shipboard combat action as seen in _Snapshot_ or _Azhanti<BR>
High Lightning_. The guy sitting at the main Engineering console<BR>
can kill anyone, anywhere on the ship with a touch of a button.<BR>
<BR>
The only way around this, if Grav Pong is possible, is for the intruder<BR>
to be able to lock out the Engineer's controls (or the Bridge repeaters)<BR>
before the fight starts. It's hard to see how the intruder could get that<BR>
much control *before* the battle starts - if anything, that kind of control<BR>
of the ship would be an *objective* of the battle.<BR>
<BR>
Thus I tried out a handwave/idea to make Grav-Pong less of a danger<BR>
IMTU.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:02:56 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
>> " Temperature: The interior of a normal ship is about<BR>
>> 25 degrees C [77 F]." - CT Sup. 7 Traders & Gunboats<BR>
>> p. 7.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Given this bit of canon we need top ask what kind<BR>
>> of clothes most people tend to wear when it is this<BR>
>> temperature?<BR>
><BR>
>At 77 degrees I and a number of people I know will be wearing as little<BR>
>as we can get away with. Because it's way outside our "comfort zone".<BR>
><BR>
>I don't know *where* they got that figure, but "standard" room temp is<BR>
>more like 70F (21C). And 20C (68F) is often quoted as "normal".<BR>
<BR>
Oddly enough, when I was working out West our building was heated to 25,<BR>
because that's what the (American) design firm used as room temperature.<BR>
The contrast between 25 inside and -30 outside would have been even more<BR>
extreme if they had designed decent insulation; as it was, we had ice<BR>
forming on the inside of the window frames. That was the only place I've<BR>
worked to have indoor weather!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:55:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: food for dogs (was Re: fashions (long))<BR>
<BR>
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
<BR>
>Dragging it back to Traveller, Vargr, due to their greater body<BR>
<BR>
>mass, are far less likely to be as susceptible to poisoning <BR>
>from these compounds than dogs are. They won't for instance <BR>
>die, or even get sick from eating a hershey bar. Unless of <BR>
>course it's a 25 pound hersheybar.<BR>
<BR>
eating 20-25% of body weight in chocolate one time<BR>
it boggles even my mind, and I'm rather serious about chocolate<BR>
<BR>
Although Vargr are much bigger than dogs, they may be as<BR>
intemperate sometimes, and they do have the hunter-chaser<BR>
metabolism.  A 25 pound hershey bar might look pretty good in<BR>
the right circumstances.  (On the other hand, Vargr are a lot<BR>
smarter than dogs or wolves and should simply know better.) <BR>
Vargr children are at greater risk, being smaller.<BR>
<BR>
The subject line is the complete in-joke, because no one on the<BR>
list would have any idea what it refers to.  I lived with a<BR>
bunch of MIT and Swarthmore students in a house in Cambridge,<BR>
Massachusetts one summer a very long time ago.  Harry, one of<BR>
the MIT guys, was from the South and had a bunch of<BR>
characteristic phrases, one of which was "food for dogs", but<BR>
with a heavy southern accent:  foo-wud furr daw-ugs" or<BR>
something like that.  He usually said it when we were unloading<BR>
groceries.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:58:08 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Grav Pong (was re: Turbolifts)<BR>
<BR>
All you need to make the shipboard actions like in AHL possible, is to add<BR>
adaptive controls to the standard-issue grav belts which are worn by all<BR>
boarding parties to counter this very problem. This device will also make<BR>
zero-g-combat a fairly useless skill.<BR>
<BR>
Luther<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
To: 'TML' <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 10:41 AM<BR>
Subject: Grav Pong (was re: Turbolifts)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>
> >> moving the ship. Even a Free Trader should be able to turn any<BR>
> >>corridor into a deadly bottomless pit by turning off the gravity<BR>
> >> and reversing the inertial comp every couple of seconds.<BR>
><BR>
> >Yep.... This maneuver is called Grav Pong.<BR>
><BR>
> Yep. The ability to do Grav Pong means that there will seldom, if ever,<BR>
> be a shipboard combat action as seen in _Snapshot_ or _Azhanti<BR>
> High Lightning_. The guy sitting at the main Engineering console<BR>
> can kill anyone, anywhere on the ship with a touch of a button.<BR>
><BR>
> The only way around this, if Grav Pong is possible, is for the intruder<BR>
> to be able to lock out the Engineer's controls (or the Bridge repeaters)<BR>
> before the fight starts. It's hard to see how the intruder could get that<BR>
> much control *before* the battle starts - if anything, that kind of<BR>
control<BR>
> of the ship would be an *objective* of the battle.<BR>
><BR>
> Thus I tried out a handwave/idea to make Grav-Pong less of a danger<BR>
> IMTU.<BR>
><BR>
> Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 12:02:38 -0700<BR>
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Grav Pong (was re: Turbolifts)<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Yep. The ability to do Grav Pong means that there will seldom, if ever,<BR>
> be a shipboard combat action as seen in _Snapshot_ or _Azhanti<BR>
> High Lightning_. The guy sitting at the main Engineering console<BR>
> can kill anyone, anywhere on the ship with a touch of a button.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Unless at least one of the boarders (the first guy in the door) has a<BR>
vacc suit that has some sort of "anchor" to fix him to a spot of his<BR>
choosing. He can anchor himself while he works on a manual override of<BR>
the grav controls, if one exists.<BR>
<BR>
Alternatively, the boarders could come in with their own portable grav<BR>
plates and use them to override the ship's ones. <BR>
<BR>
IMTU, grav plates don't instantly change G forces. It takes one combat<BR>
round per change of G. So, to reduce a room to zero-G takes one round.<BR>
That's enough time for someone to anchor themselves to a nearby object<BR>
(which is a task roll, of course).<BR>
<BR>
Also IMTU, reverse polarity (if that's an acceptable term) doesn't work;<BR>
grav plates only attract, not repel. So you can increase the G force,<BR>
but you can't make people stick to the ceilings (unless you installed<BR>
grav plates there).<BR>
<BR>
> Thus I tried out a handwave/idea to make Grav-Pong less of a danger<BR>
> IMTU.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
And that was?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Erwin Fritz<BR>
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.<BR>
http://www.glja.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:03:06 -0800<BR>
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica<BR>
<BR>
>Sci-Fi ran the whole series here in the US on one day--Christmas.  I taped<BR>
>the whole thing.<BR>
><BR>
>It's amazing how much I remembered from watching it in junior high.  I<BR>
>haven't seen the show since then, and with most of the episodes, I could<BR>
>remember what was going to happen.<BR>
><BR>
>Kenneth.<BR>
<BR>
Was it all 24 episodes?  I'd heard they weren't going to show quite the<BR>
entire run of the original show.  I was lucky and was able to watch the 24<BR>
hour marathon the Sci-Fi channel did in '93, now that's the way to see it!<BR>
Unfortunatly I've not gotten a chance to see it since then :^(<BR>
<BR>
				Zane<BR>
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |<BR>
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |<BR>
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |<BR>
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+<BR>
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |<BR>
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |<BR>
|                 http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/              |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 19:15:43 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Grav Pong (was re: Turbolifts)<BR>
<BR>
Erwin Fritz wrote:<BR>
> Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
> > Yep. The ability to do Grav Pong means that there will seldom,<BR>
> > if ever, be a shipboard combat action as seen in _Snapshot_ or<BR>
> > _Azhanti High Lightning_. The guy sitting at the main Engineering<BR>
> > console can kill anyone, anywhere on the ship with a touch of a<BR>
> > button.<BR>
> <BR>
> Unless at least one of the boarders (the first guy in the door)<BR>
> has a vacc suit that has some sort of "anchor" to fix him to a<BR>
> spot of his choosing. He can anchor himself while he works on a<BR>
> manual override of the grav controls, if one exists.<BR>
<BR>
Or the low tech approach:  the  borders  all  have  those  sucker<BR>
attachments that human flies  use  to  walk  up  the  outside  of<BR>
buildings.  Only this time they stick themselves to the floor  on<BR>
hands and knees and crawl step by step along the corridor.<BR>
<BR>
    (spwop!  spwop!  spwop!)<BR>
<BR>
    Er, what's that noise?<BR>
<BR>
    (SPWOP!  SPWOP!  SPWOP!)<BR>
<BR>
    Yee gads, INTRUDER ALERT!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:19:14<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
At 05:24 PM 1/6/2000 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>One other method of note: A bardic tradition (in the celtic sense, not the<BR>
>french), where history, etc is set to music, and memorized that way.<BR>
<BR>
Learning by rhythm is an amazing thing.  Ask any American in their late 20s<BR>
to mid 30s to recite the multiplication table for the number three, and<BR>
they will sing it to you.<BR>
<BR>
God Bless Schoolhouse Rock.  Almost thirty years later and I still know all<BR>
the words to those things.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:24:40<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Finding People<BR>
<BR>
At 11:55 AM 1/7/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>As far as I know, I am the only Loren K Wiseman in the USA -- at least<BR>
with >a listed number -- there is a Lauren Wiseman in Chicago, but the<BR>
middle >initial is different.<BR>
<BR>
And of course Jordan Weisman of FASA.  :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:38:00 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Kenji and Sedatives<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 1/4/00 8:05 AM, ehenry@newberlin.org wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Dude, buddy, someday you just have to see my wife...  And she fires a mean<BR>
> paintball...<BR>
<BR>
Same skill works for tranq guns. And there may be SYTs /on/ the list too!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:31:16 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Grav-Pong<BR>
<BR>
Erwin Fritz wrote:<BR>
>Unless at least one of the boarders (the first guy in the door) has a<BR>
>vacc suit that has some sort of "anchor" to fix him to a spot of his<BR>
>choosing. He can anchor himself while he works on a manual override of<BR>
>the grav controls, if one exists.<BR>
<BR>
For just this reason, no ship designer ought to install a manual override<BR>
to any significant grav controls where the "first man in the door" of a<BR>
boarding party can get to it.<BR>
<BR>
>Alternatively, the boarders could come in with their own portable grav<BR>
>plates and use them to override the ship's ones. <BR>
<BR>
So they can only fight where they've "laid down a carpet"?<BR>
<BR>
(Image of half the boarders laying down a "rug" in front of the boarding<BR>
party, half collecting it up behind them, while the other half provide...<BR>
oh, wait...)<BR>
<BR>
>IMTU, grav plates don't instantly change G forces. It takes one combat<BR>
>round per change of G. So, to reduce a room to zero-G takes one round.<BR>
>That's enough time for someone to anchor themselves to a nearby object<BR>
>(which is a task roll, of course).<BR>
><BR>
>Also IMTU, reverse polarity (if that's an acceptable term) doesn't work;<BR>
>grav plates only attract, not repel. So you can increase the G force,<BR>
>but you can't make people stick to the ceilings (unless you installed<BR>
>grav plates there).<BR>
<BR>
It's not so much the floor plates that cause grav pong, as the inertial<BR>
compensators. If I stop the ship with 1G of acceleration, *something*<BR>
stopped you from moving towards the bow at 1G. If I turn the ship with<BR>
3G's of lateral acceleration, something stopped you from moving towards<BR>
the side of the ship at 3G's. If grav plates only pull down, then the ones<BR>
in the floor can't stop these other movements. Therefore, if inertial comp<BR>
is based on grav plates, then every wall, floor and ceiling of areas<BR>
protected by inertial comp must have a grav plate in them, all linked<BR>
together to provide *near-instant* applications of G-forces appropriate to<BR>
cancel out the effects of accelerations on people in the ship.<BR>
<BR>
Therefore, a high-G ship will have grav plates in the walls and ceilings<BR>
able to pull people in at 6+ G's, even if the ship isn't moving. Even a<BR>
low-G ship should have the ability to do this at multiple G's, to handle<BR>
turning the ship.<BR>
<BR>
Erwin again:<BR>
>> Thus I tried out a handwave/idea to make Grav-Pong less of a danger<BR>
>> IMTU.<BR>
>> <BR>
<BR>
>And that was?<BR>
<BR>
Two variants, both similar, equally handwaved, and not fully thought out.<BR>
I'm sure either will have technological side-effects I haven't thought of.<BR>
<BR>
First variant: Grav plates provide a field in which the only acceleration <BR>
is that created by the grav plate. The field either projects for a certain<BR>
distance above the grav plate, or is a result of the interaction between<BR>
a bottom plate and a top plate. This field can be anything from 0G to<BR>
the maximum allowed by the technology. Extreme external accelerations<BR>
applied to this field will be pretty much unnoticed until a certain stress <BR>
level is reached, which causes the field to fail almost instantly. <BR>
<BR>
These grav plates take some time to build up a charge, so while you<BR>
can turn them off pretty quickly, turning them on again takes seconds<BR>
or minutes per G. Even if you can get that corridor to 6G, it will take<BR>
a while.<BR>
<BR>
You can still turn off the grav plates, then turn on the engines and toss<BR>
the enemy in the shut off areas around with some hefty maneuvers.<BR>
To do this, your maneuver drives will have to be operational - and you<BR>
usually can't board a ship that has operational manuever drives.<BR>
<BR>
Second variant: Inertial compensation is actually Inertial Dampening.<BR>
A field is generated which covers the entire ship, dampening out<BR>
external accelerations for the covered areas. Note it *dampens*, it <BR>
doesn't *compensate*. I think that's important to this particular<BR>
handwave. A compensator must be able to generate accelerations,<BR>
a dampener just has to stop the effects of other accelerations from<BR>
having effect.<BR>
<BR>
Inertial dampening is a system seperate from grav plates, and can be shut <BR>
down independently from them. The field bleeds a small percentage of <BR>
external accelerations through, too small to be noticed for normal <BR>
maneuvers, some minor rattling for things like missile hits, the percieved <BR>
"bleed" going up from there until the field fails altogether.<BR>
<BR>
An advantage of this, from a gaming point of view, is that the crew can't<BR>
turn of the field just on the places the bad guys are.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:49:41 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
>Subject: RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
...<BR>
>"Rhylanor, the savannah planet".  The summers in Seattle are pretty clear<BR>
>& sunny.  I lived there for years and quaked in fear every July when that<BR>
>bright thing came out and wouldn't go away for weeks on end.<BR>
<BR>
  I've heard of places like that! It may even happen here in the <BR>
rainforest in my lifetime :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:21:18 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Old...<BR>
<BR>
I'm already 46. Damn, I bought D&D edition 1 (still have it, signed by<BR>
Gary Gygax, no less). I even bought Bunnies and Burrows as well as<BR>
Tunnels and Trolls before I found Trav.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Leonard<BR>
Erickson<BR>
Sent: 06 January 2000 10:58<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Old...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> I'm 41 and proud to be an old perv!<BR>
>><BR>
>> --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
Got ya beat! 45 next month...<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:19:35 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
Damn, that's right (I asked my cousin the cop, but since he's in the<BR>
squeaky clean CIB, he only ever has to deal with other cops, and they<BR>
should already know the words).<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Sent: 05 January 2000 03:03<BR>
To: traveller@mpgn.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Old laws/weird legal systems<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Mark replied:<BR>
>"You have the right to remain silent, but if you fail to mention<BR>
anything that<BR>
>may later be used in your defense the court may draw inferences from<BR>
your<BR>
>failing to do so."<BR>
<BR>
I thought it was:<BR>
"You have the right to remain silent, but it may harm your defence if<BR>
you do not<BR>
mention something, when questioned, that you later rely on in court."<BR>
<BR>
At least, that's what they say on "The Bill".  ;-)<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- --<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM<BR>
1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw<BR>
davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of<BR>
gravity"<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- --<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely<BR>
those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part,<BR>
the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:41:50 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Grav Pong<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
>All you need to make the shipboard actions like in AHL possible, is to add<BR>
>adaptive controls to the standard-issue grav belts which are worn by all<BR>
>boarding parties to counter this very problem. This device will also make<BR>
>zero-g-combat a fairly useless skill.<BR>
<BR>
And thus rewrite every AHL scenario to note that every combatant<BR>
can "fly" if they want to. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
ISTR grav belts as TL12 items. That's 3 tech levels between jump drive<BR>
and this fix being available. Are they something every pirate, free trader<BR>
crewman, hijacker and escaped lab animal will be able to afford?<BR>
(Just some examples of the kinds of combatants found in Snapshot<BR>
scenarios.)<BR>
<BR>
Zero-G combat should still be useful, as a grav belt only works if there<BR>
is gravity for it to work against (I think). If the ship is in zero-G,<BR>
your grav belt won't do anything.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:34:46<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re MEn in Uniform [OT]<BR>
<BR>
At 03:02 AM 1/7/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>So come the night of the big party, a WWII German Staff car with<BR>
>motorcycle escort drives up. He gets out in an SS "Colonel"'s<BR>
>uniform and enters the party. <BR>
<BR>
Donna Barr (who draws the Desert Peach and has done Traveller illustrations<BR>
in the past) tends to wear the uniform of a Wehrmacht Feldwebel to parties.<BR>
 She's dyed it pink.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:50:57 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: food for dogs (was Re: fashions (long))<BR>
<BR>
On Friday, January 07, 2000 10:56 AM<BR>
Glenn Goffin said,<BR>
<BR>
> Although Vargr are much bigger than dogs, they may be as<BR>
> intemperate sometimes, and they do have the hunter-chaser<BR>
> metabolism.  A 25 pound hershey bar might look pretty good in<BR>
> the right circumstances.  (On the other hand, Vargr are a lot<BR>
> smarter than dogs or wolves and should simply know better.)<BR>
> Vargr children are at greater risk, being smaller.<BR>
<BR>
I was thinking about this last night and I figure that on a Vargr home<BR>
world, there probably isn't a lot of chocolate, etc. around so a typical<BR>
Vargr might not be able to recognize it.  Some ignorant traders stopping<BR>
at a Vargr outpost might try and sell off a few cases of M&Ms and<BR>
Hershey bars as luxury goods or pass off a large chocolate animal to a<BR>
customs inspector as a gift.  Only after the customs agent has gorged<BR>
themselves on this new luxury and been sent to the hospital would the<BR>
authorities inform the PC's of their mistake.<BR>
<BR>
I would assume that Imperial Vargr would be advised by a doctor early on<BR>
about such substances and maybe there is some indoctrination seminar<BR>
about dangerous human foods for Vargr in human space.<BR>
<BR>
"... If you ever see any of these things in a Human cargo hold space it<BR>
immediately.  Humans sometimes carry a few cases of this special poison<BR>
just in case they get boarded.  Rumor has it, it was originally designed<BR>
by the Solomani specifically to smell good to Vargr."<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
Thing under the stairs,<BR>
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
==================================<BR>
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."  -Napoleon<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:56:05 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
>At 77 degrees I and a number of people I know will be wearing <BR>
>as little as we can get away with. Because it's way outside our<BR>
<BR>
>"comfort zone". I don't know *where* they got that figure, but <BR>
>"standard" room temp is more like 70F (21C). And 20C (68F) is <BR>
>often quoted as "normal".<BR>
<BR>
My comfort zone is far warmer than yours, which means that I<BR>
usually wear a sweater in the office, and sometimes fingerless<BR>
gloves.  For me, 75F to 80F would mean long-sleeved cotton dress<BR>
shirt and khakis; 65F to 70F would be the same with a wool or<BR>
cashmere sweater.  (I'm so happy to have my own thermostat in<BR>
this office!)  Of course, my work mainly involves sitting and<BR>
reading, writing, and talking.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:01:00 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
>Kenji, Most of the folks *I* have seen wearing red ties are<BR>
also<BR>
>wearing blue suits. It's the AmWay "uniform". <shudder><BR>
<BR>
It used to be the IBM uniform, too, as I recall.  John Molloy,<BR>
of Dress for Success fame, studied the effects of clothing on<BR>
persuasion, image, etc.  One of his findings (from studies in<BR>
1980s, as I recall) was that women were attracted to men wearing<BR>
red ties more than any other color.  (It's not in Dress for<BR>
Success, but in one of his other books; I forget the title.)<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:53:20 -0800<BR>
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: fashions<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> >At 77 degrees I and a number of people I know will be wearing<BR>
> >as little as we can get away with. Because it's way outside our<BR>
><BR>
> >"comfort zone". I don't know *where* they got that figure, but<BR>
> >"standard" room temp is more like 70F (21C). And 20C (68F) is<BR>
> >often quoted as "normal".<BR>
><BR>
> My comfort zone is far warmer than yours, which means that I<BR>
> usually wear a sweater in the office, and sometimes fingerless<BR>
> gloves.  For me, 75F to 80F would mean long-sleeved cotton dress<BR>
> shirt and khakis; 65F to 70F would be the same with a wool or<BR>
> cashmere sweater.  (I'm so happy to have my own thermostat in<BR>
> this office!)  Of course, my work mainly involves sitting and<BR>
> reading, writing, and talking.<BR>
><BR>
and my comfort zone is far cooler (the better half calls me her portable<BR>
heater) as I'm happy at about 55F to 60F. Anything higher I start to over<BR>
heat (needless to say I spend most of the summer in side with the AC going)<BR>
<BR>
Wayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 14:06:27 -0600<BR>
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <dreamer@brokersys.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica<BR>
<BR>
Zane H. Healy wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Was it all 24 episodes?  I'd heard they weren't going to show quite the<BR>
> entire run of the original show.  I was lucky and was able to watch the 24<BR>
> hour marathon the Sci-Fi channel did in '93, now that's the way to see it!<BR>
> Unfortunatly I've not gotten a chance to see it since then :^(<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I don't think it was quite 24 episodes.  It was 21 hours total.  I read on one<BR>
of the Battlestar sites that the show was packaged some years ago into a 21<BR>
hour miniseries type of thing.  They left a couple of shows out on purpose--I<BR>
don't know why.  And, I read that this package had a couple of additional<BR>
scenes not seen anywhere else.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure this is what Sci-Fi showed.<BR>
<BR>
They strung it all together, telling almost a complete story.  I say "almost"<BR>
because there is no ending, of course.<BR>
<BR>
I think it might have been nice to add the very first show of Galactica<BR>
1980--just because they find Earth in that one (although I, like most Galactica<BR>
fans, hated G: 1980.  I didn't like it even as a kid.)<BR>
<BR>
Kenneth.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1698<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1699</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	1/7/00 1:42:26 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, January 7 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1699<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
RE: Grav-Pong<BR>
Re: "Family"<BR>
re:  101 Schools - What's Needed?<BR>
RE: Grav Pong<BR>
re:  Lawyers<BR>
RE: "Family"<BR>
Re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: 101 Schools - What's Needed?<BR>
Re: Grav-Pong<BR>
RE: Grav-Pong<BR>
Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
Re: Grav Pong<BR>
Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
re: Grav Pong<BR>
Re: Vargr breeds<BR>
"Its raining on planet Mongo!" (was RE: nudity and clothes)<BR>
RE: Re MEn in Uniform [OT]<BR>
Re: It takes a Village<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:08:32 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
>From: Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
<BR>
>Now, I have no plans to either become a naturist or visit Japan<BR>
<BR>
>in the foreseeable future, but I gotta ask... I have a <BR>
>sensitivity to sunlight such that I don't dare venture outside <BR>
>by day without sunglasses on. Anything brighter than a heavy <BR>
>overcast is uncomfortable, and in full direct sunlight I can't <BR>
>see at all. In a case like that, what would I do? <BR>
<BR>
I don't know what you should do about naturists or Japan, but it<BR>
sounds to me like you have a slight case of vampirism.  Maybe a<BR>
bowl of garlic soup and a weekend retreat at a monastery (witha<BR>
lot of time in the chapel) would do you some good.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:12:03 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Grav-Pong<BR>
<BR>
On Friday, January 07, 2000 11:31 AM<BR>
Walter Smith said,<BR>
<BR>
<snippage><BR>
> It's not so much the floor plates that cause grav pong, as the<BR>
inertial<BR>
> compensators.<BR>
<snippage><BR>
<BR>
I've used the idea that the inertial compensation (Or inertial<BR>
compensating component or the grav plates) acts over the whole ship in a<BR>
uniform manner since all parts of a ship experience the same<BR>
acceleration.  The crew can turn it off, but they get the same effects<BR>
as the borders, they just might know what to expect.<BR>
<BR>
I've also used the idea that the ship can't be boarded until the power<BR>
plant has been damaged or gone off-line.  This reduces the chances of<BR>
pirates building fleets of captured ships as they have a good chance of<BR>
destroying a vessel rather than taking it relatively in tact.  I also<BR>
added inertial compensators to the shipboard damage possibilities.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
======<BR>
"Obviously crime pays, or there'd be no crime." -G. Gordon Liddy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 12:15:56 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "Family"<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 1/4/00 2:02 PM, jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body!<BR>
<BR>
Hey! I've been using that line for nigh on three years now, and I don't<BR>
remember using it online. Parallel creativity? Or has the phrase wandered<BR>
off on it's own? Reason for my usage: I never understood the mindset of<BR>
hetero male skinmonkeys, yet I am (nominally) hetero. Chat with lesbian<BR>
friends led me to realize my mindset on sex was more like theirs. I scrawled<BR>
the phrase on a military surplus jacket and wore it often when in drag. Oh,<BR>
I /wore/ it. Did someone see it and pass the phrase on? Of course I could<BR>
easily see somebody coming up with that independently.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:22:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  101 Schools - What's Needed?<BR>
<BR>
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>Subject: <BR>
<BR>
>What information do you folks think would be needed to present <BR>
>an institution of higher learning (as something other than the <BR>
>focus of an adventure)?<BR>
[excellent list deleted]<BR>
>What other information would be required?<BR>
<BR>
You need the category "Degrees offered".  The following issues<BR>
should be addressed:<BR>
<BR>
- -Associate's / Bachelor's / Master's / Doctor's degrees<BR>
- -degrees in Arts / Sciences / Engineering / Fine Arts <BR>
(e.g. BA or BS or BFA)<BR>
- -Professional degrees (e.g. JD, MD) (and by implication,<BR>
professional schools attached)<BR>
- -Vocational programs and certificates (e.g., Certificate in<BR>
Gravitic Maintenance)<BR>
<BR>
Another issue is admission requirements (did you already have<BR>
that), which probably involve Edu and Soc more than anything.<BR>
<BR>
This might be a good to go to some web sites and see what<BR>
information various institutions offer to the public, and/or<BR>
order some university catalogues from around the world.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 15:28:27 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Grav Pong<BR>
<BR>
Peter Trevor writes:<BR>
>Erwin Fritz wrote:<BR>
>>Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
>>>Yep. The ability to do Grav Pong means that there will seldom,<BR>
>>>if ever, be a shipboard combat action as seen in _Snapshot_ or<BR>
>>>_Azhanti High Lightning_. The guy sitting at the main Engineering<BR>
>>>console can kill anyone, anywhere on the ship with a touch of a<BR>
>>>button.<BR>
>>Unless at least one of the boarders (the first guy in the door)<BR>
>>has a vacc suit that has some sort of "anchor" to fix him to a<BR>
>>spot of his choosing. He can anchor himself while he works on a<BR>
>>manual override of the grav controls, if one exists.<BR>
>Or the low tech approach:  the  borders  all  have  those  sucker<BR>
>attachments that human flies  use  to  walk  up  the  outside  of<BR>
>buildings.  Only this time they stick themselves to the floor  on<BR>
>hands and knees and crawl step by step along the corridor.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	Bear in mind that typical military vessels must compensate<BR>
	for 3+ G.  Picture the Pirate climbing a vertical metal<BR>
	wall carrying 200+ kg.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:29:44 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Lawyers<BR>
<BR>
>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
<BR>
>Can someone please tell me who said the following:<BR>
>"Cease-and-desist letters are a lawyer's way of saying hello."<BR>
>(It may have been one of the Glenn's)I'd like to add it to my <BR>
>taglines page<BR>
<BR>
It wasn't this Glenn, but I did like the sentiment.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:30:57 -0800<BR>
From: "William Watkins" <elfman@pacificnet.net><BR>
Subject: RE: "Family"<BR>
<BR>
Hell,<BR>
<BR>
I have heard that line for some odd 10 years now......<BR>
<BR>
Elfman<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Benyamene'<BR>
ZeAbe' Akella<BR>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 12:16 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: "Family"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 1/4/00 2:02 PM, jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body!<BR>
<BR>
Hey! I've been using that line for nigh on three years now, and I don't<BR>
remember using it online. Parallel creativity? Or has the phrase wandered<BR>
off on it's own? Reason for my usage: I never understood the mindset of<BR>
hetero male skinmonkeys, yet I am (nominally) hetero. Chat with lesbian<BR>
friends led me to realize my mindset on sex was more like theirs. I scrawled<BR>
the phrase on a military surplus jacket and wore it often when in drag. Oh,<BR>
I /wore/ it. Did someone see it and pass the phrase on? Of course I could<BR>
easily see somebody coming up with that independently.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 12:43:10 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Confusing Quoting<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 1/4/00 4:16 PM, dom@cybergoths.u-net.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ISTR that outlook can't do this easily? Certainly my work a/c version<BR>
> won't do it. Anyone know how?<BR>
<BR>
I'm using Outlook, and it does it. The ">" thing I mean. To pare out bits of<BR>
a message I am not responding to, or is too extensive to quote, I select<BR>
what I want in my reply, then hit "reply". I don't know what an a/c version<BR>
is. I don't like the massive quote posts myself, but if one must quote the<BR>
entire post, it would be nice if the new stuff was on top. And Jesse, this<BR>
is almost a non-issue, but when you start off with a >splort<, It marks the<BR>
rest of the paragraph as a previous post. You might try <splort>ing instead.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:43:45 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: : Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
<BR>
>You pegged another pet-peeve of mine : liking a person based on<BR>
their appearance.  <BR>
[deletion]<BR>
>Would people still be doing this stuff in a community as varied<BR>
>as the 3rd Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
Surveillance recording of suspected Kforuzeng infiltrator, code<BR>
named "Maa-1", standing with unidentified male Vargr ("UMV"),<BR>
Jesedipere Vargr enclave, 282-1111 (translation to Galanglic by<BR>
Lt. Rraghrrarr, ImpMarInt Unit 787):<BR>
<BR>
UMV:  What do you think of the talent here?<BR>
Maa-1:  I dunno.<BR>
UMV:  No, really, take a sniff.<BR>
Maa-1:  [sniffs] OK, I guess.<BR>
UMV:  That one's shaped nice, huh?<BR>
Maa-1:  [sniffs] Smells like chemicals.  And I don't go for that<BR>
mottled gray and brown.<BR>
UMV:  I like that white throat though.  I bet it smells like<BR>
[unintelligible; vehicle noises].<BR>
Maa-1:  I guess I could [unintelligible; vehicle noises] if<BR>
she'd let [unintelligible; vehicle noises].<BR>
UMV:  Shall I ask?<BR>
Maa-1:  [unintelligible; vehicle noises] after we meet<BR>
[unintelligible; vehicle noises].<BR>
[Subjects then boarded a grav taxi.]<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:43:38 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
>> Thirdly... as a female.... I don't want to be too crude  here... but<BR>
there are valid reasons for at least a loincloth and most cultures do at<BR>
least wear some kind of skirt/briefs.  To put it bluntly, I don't want to<BR>
sit on a chair that another woman has been sitting in not wearing any<BR>
panties. ESPECIALLY not 3-7 days out of every 28 or so, but really not at<BR>
any time.<BR>
>><BR>
>I would think that by TL15 medical science would have  progressed to the<BR>
point where the "pill" doesn't just stop ovulation but the whole menstral<BR>
cycle.  Just think: no more cramps, no  more mood swings (beyond ther<BR>
normal), no more buying things with wings to stuff down your pants.<BR>
><BR>
Healthy females leak for reasons other than menstruation, it's just not<BR>
always as obvious.  That's the reason for "panty liners" and that "not so<BR>
fresh feeling" although when there is an unpleasant smell, it usually means<BR>
something is wrong.  Personally, if I sit in a chair nude and have sexual<BR>
thoughts or sometimes just at certain times of the month other than<BR>
menstruation, I need to either put down a towel first or wipe up the seat.<BR>
I would have preferred to avoid being this graphic, but you guys keep<BR>
thinking it's just menstruation I'm talking about.<BR>
<BR>
Also, many men seem to think that just eliminating the menstrual cycle would<BR>
be OK, and I'm not sure it wouldn't cause other problems.  The tissue you<BR>
eliminate once a month is eliminated because it's old and dead and won't be<BR>
used.  I wouldn't want it to remain up there longer than necessary.  Mood<BR>
swings are caused as often by the "Pill" as they are eliminated.  I had<BR>
terrible problems with the "Pill" and while I'll grant that it's been<BR>
improved a lot by then, the ease with which you guys think that this problem<BR>
could be done away with sometimes squicks me a little.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:03:48 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: 101 Schools - What's Needed?<BR>
<BR>
>What information do you folks think would be needed to present an<BR>
>institution of higher learning (as something other than the focus of an<BR>
>adventure)?<BR>
><BR>
>I can see the following information as necessary:<BR>
><BR>
>Name of the School<BR>
>Location (minimum of world; city and region on that world would be even<BR>
>better)<BR>
>Tech Level<BR>
>Is the school public (in the American sense) or private?<BR>
>Degree programs<BR>
>Number of students/faculty<BR>
>Noteworthy departments (is the school, for instance, reknowned for its<BR>
>History department?)<BR>
>Admission requirements (Ex: Edu +2D > target number, modified by Soc in<BR>
>some way)<BR>
>Tuition (annual cost; are scholarships available?)<BR>
>Key NPCs:  Chancellor, Deans of at least some of the colleges,<BR>
>Department heads, etc.<BR>
>Key locations (where do students hang out off-campus, for instance?)<BR>
><BR>
>What other information would be required?<BR>
<BR>
What the game effects are of attending the school. Changes to Education,<BR>
various skills, and contacts made.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, this should ideally be done for CT/MT, TNE, and GT (as the three<BR>
main rules systems we use).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 16:57:36 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Grav-Pong<BR>
<BR>
At 02:31 PM 1/7/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>Second variant: Inertial compensation is actually Inertial Dampening.<BR>
>A field is generated which covers the entire ship, dampening out<BR>
>external accelerations for the covered areas. Note it *dampens*, it <BR>
>doesn't *compensate*. I think that's important to this particular<BR>
>handwave. A compensator must be able to generate accelerations,<BR>
>a dampener just has to stop the effects of other accelerations from<BR>
>having effect.<BR>
><BR>
>Inertial dampening is a system seperate from grav plates, and can be shut <BR>
>down independently from them. The field bleeds a small percentage of <BR>
>external accelerations through, too small to be noticed for normal <BR>
>maneuvers, some minor rattling for things like missile hits, the percieved <BR>
>"bleed" going up from there until the field fails altogether.<BR>
><BR>
>An advantage of this, from a gaming point of view, is that the crew can't<BR>
>turn of the field just on the places the bad guys are.<BR>
><BR>
>Walt Smith<BR>
><BR>
        Hi, Walt...<BR>
<BR>
        You just about exactly described how I do it in my TNEC millieu...<BR>
Further, its got "idiot checks" on it to prevent it from being powered down<BR>
anytime that the maneuver drive or power plant is operational...  prevent a<BR>
computer glitch from splattening the whole crew....<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 16:02:00 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Grav-Pong<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith writes:<BR>
>Erwin Fritz wrote:<BR>
>>Unless at least one of the boarders (the first guy in the door)<BR>
>>has a vacc suit that has some sort of "anchor" to fix him to a<BR>
>>spot of his choosing. He can anchor himself while he works on a<BR>
>>manual override of the grav controls, if one exists.<BR>
>For just this reason, no ship designer ought to install a manual<BR>
>override to any significant grav controls where the "first man in<BR>
>the door" of a boarding party can get to it.<BR>
<BR>
	Naturally, engineering would be one of the primary targets<BR>
	of boarding parties, but I agree that disabling a ships<BR>
	gravetics would be difficult to accomplish quickly.  As<BR>
	we are on the subject, what are the best tactics in boarding<BR>
	/repelling (assuming that grav pong is not an option).<BR>
<BR>
>>Alternatively, the boarders could come in with their own portable<BR>
>>grav plates and use them to override the ship's ones. <BR>
>So they can only fight where they've "laid down a carpet"?<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	Sounds awkward.  I suppose that FGMP-equiped troops could<BR>
	blast away any nearby gravetics.  It might also be possible<BR>
	to disable specific systems, if you know where to do it.<BR>
	for example, the boarding ship could pull alongside (within<BR>
	a few hundred meters) and use pinpoint laser shots to cut<BR>
	critical power/control lines.  Boarders might do something<BR>
	similar using explosive or thermal charges (or their personal<BR>
	weapon).<BR>
<BR>
>>IMTU, grav plates don't instantly change G forces. It takes one<BR>
>>combat round per change of G. So, to reduce a room to zero-G takes<BR>
>>one round.<BR>
>It's not so much the floor plates that cause grav pong, as the<BR>
>inertial compensators.<BR>
<BR>
	I always figured that the floor plates provided G compensation.<BR>
	If one assumes that the floor plates can create a G field on<BR>
	an angle, then the net field can be made to be 1G straight<BR>
	"down."<BR>
<BR>
>If I stop the ship with 1G of acceleration, *something* stopped you<BR>
>from moving towards the bow at 1G. If I turn the ship with 3G's of<BR>
>lateral acceleration, something stopped you from moving towards<BR>
>the side of the ship at 3G's. If grav plates only pull down, then<BR>
>the ones in the floor can't stop these other movements.<BR>
<BR>
	This may be version-dependant, but IMTU (CT) ships can only<BR>
	accelerate at their rated M-drive straight ahead, and must<BR>
	turn the ship around to accelerate in the opposite direction.<BR>
	Lateral acceleration, and angular acceleration, are generated<BR>
	by much smaller thrusters that only manage about 10% of the<BR>
	main drive's G.<BR>
<BR>
>Therefore, if inertial comp is based on grav plates, then every<BR>
>wall, floor and ceiling of areas protected by inertial comp must<BR>
>have a grav plate in them, all linked together to provide *near-<BR>
>instant* applications of G-forces appropriate to cancel out the<BR>
>effects of accelerations on people in the ship.<BR>
<BR>
	I like the sophonts on board to feel the ship maneuvering,<BR>
	so I am quite happy with a time lag on G compensation.<BR>
<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>First variant:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>Extreme external accelerations applied to this field will be pretty<BR>
>much unnoticed until a certain stress level is reached, which<BR>
>causes the field to fail almost instantly. <BR>
<BR>
	Is it necessary to have it behave in this fashion?  I would<BR>
	have a time lag in response to changing accelerations, and<BR>
	the field would continue to function if an acceleration<BR>
	exceeded the plate's ability to completely compensate.<BR>
<BR>
>These grav plates take some time to build up a charge, so while<BR>
>you can turn them off pretty quickly, turning them on again takes<BR>
>seconds or minutes per G. Even if you can get that corridor to 6G,<BR>
>it will take a while.<BR>
<BR>
	Sounds good, though one could have them slow going off as<BR>
	well.<BR>
<BR>
>You can still turn off the grav plates, then turn on the engines<BR>
>and toss the enemy in the shut off areas around with some hefty<BR>
>maneuvers. To do this, your maneuver drives will have to be<BR>
>operational - and you usually can't board a ship that has<BR>
>operational manuever drives.<BR>
<BR>
	It could still be useful vs hijackers, aggressive carnivorous<BR>
	xenomorphs, etc.<BR>
<BR>
>Second variant: Inertial compensation is actually Inertial<BR>
>Dampening.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	This works very well, though ponging boarders might still<BR>
	be possible once the crew has strapped in.  I still like<BR>
	the Traveller feel of using grav plates: just my own<BR>
	prejudice.<BR>
<BR>
	Are grav plates available at TL7?  Low-tech ships IMTU<BR>
	have no artificial gravity.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:12:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
>From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
<BR>
>I imagine that jewelry would be a common source of wrong <BR>
>assumptions. A male wearing jewelry would be unacceptable in <BR>
>some cultures. In other cultures, jewelry would be a direct <BR>
>indicator of wealth, so the man without any would be thought of<BR>
<BR>
>as really poor...<BR>
<BR>
That's a good real-world example.  My girlfriend is from<BR>
Thailand.  When we go to events in San Francisco, we both dress<BR>
like upper middle class Americans:  almost no jewelry, dark<BR>
colors, etc.  She says we are dressed like Thai servants.  On<BR>
the other hand, when Thais of our Soc go out, they wear a lot of<BR>
jewelry -- like American servants.  <BR>
<BR>
When we were in Thailand, we were comparing pictures of her then<BR>
13-year-old daughter with another relative's pictures of that<BR>
relative's same aged daughter.  Each of us thought that the<BR>
other one's daughter looked more grown up, and our own looked<BR>
less so.  The difference?  The American girl was wearing make-up<BR>
and the Thai wasn't.  In Thailand, only adults wear make-up and<BR>
in the USA, adults have often stopped using it (at least in<BR>
obvious amounts).<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:05:23 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Grav Pong<BR>
<BR>
I remain entirely unconvinced that "Grav Pong" is possible.  Designing a<BR>
feature like that into any starship would be asking for trouble.<BR>
Malfunction, sabotage, computer programming bug; any of them could trigger a<BR>
disaster.  I somehow doubt that any ship could get certified for passenger<BR>
traffic with that sort of time bomb in place.  Military vessels wouldn't<BR>
need it, since no boarding would be attempted in battle unless the ship were<BR>
so badly damaged that power to frivolous things like grav plates and<BR>
compensators would be out of the question.  Not to mention that boarders in<BR>
military actions would be fully expecting the tactic if it were possible,<BR>
and would take measures to overcome it.<BR>
<BR>
From an engineering stand point the idea gives one a headache.  How do you<BR>
make a grav plate that works in two directions?  What kind of housing or<BR>
mount would hold it?  Could the bulkheads and overheads stand the stress of<BR>
switching grav direction?  Could the equipment in the area take the stress?<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps it would be possible to booby trap an area of the ship with grav<BR>
plates in all six directions and no metal surfaces to hook your magnetic<BR>
boots to.  Probably be fun to do a brig that way, too.  But you certainly<BR>
would not do cargo or machinery areas that way.  No matter, it is certain<BR>
that the AHL class does not have such a feature.<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:23:32 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Fashionable Imperial<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
<BR>
>For this reason, I primarily look for women who don't have much<BR>
<BR>
>to offer physically.  <BR>
<BR>
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life<BR>
Never make a pretty woman your wife<BR>
A pretty woman makes her man feel small<BR>
And very often causes his downfall.<BR>
So from my person point of view<BR>
Get an ugly girl to marry you.<BR>
<BR>
- -Kid Creole and the Coconuts, ca. 1980 SC (Solomani Calendar)<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:17:28 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Grav Pong<BR>
<BR>
Swordy wrote:<BR>
>I remain entirely unconvinced that "Grav Pong" is possible.  Designing a<BR>
>feature like that into any starship would be asking for trouble.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not saying it's a design feature. I'm saying that, given certain<BR>
assumptions about how grav plates and inertial compensation works,<BR>
it's a normal and exploitable side-effect of the technology. Kind of like<BR>
how you can burn someone's skin by pushing it up against the exhaust<BR>
pipes of a motorcycle that's been running a while...you don't necessarily<BR>
want the machine to do that, but you'll have to make some special<BR>
design decisions (or technology decisions) to keep it from happening.<BR>
<BR>
I didn't like grav pong, so I tweaked the way the technology worked<BR>
IMTU so it wasn't such a big thing.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:05:11 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr breeds<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
>I'm pretty sure that all dog breeds in existence today can be traced back<BR>
>to a common ancestor, the wolf.<BR>
>Grandfather and his kids scarfed wolves from Earth some 300,000 years ago,<BR>
>I'm not sure, but this may be-pre-dog.<BR>
><BR>
>The non-canon, held in hostage, DGP book Cogs & Dogs goes into detail on<BR>
>some Vargr subspecies.  These include a larger breed that wouldn't think<BR>
>twice about taking on male Aslan in hand to hand, and a smaller breed with<BR>
>a higher instance of psionics.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I seem to remember something on that from the GDW Alien Module on Vargr's.<BR>
I will look for it.   I have the Aslan; Alien Module 1 in front of me and<BR>
I'm narrowing the search for the correct one.  It's in a box around here<BR>
some where I swear it!<BR>
<BR>
Regards subspecies of Vargr I've often wondered.  My remembrance of the<BR>
module referenced above, which I currently cannot find, suggests that the<BR>
bigger Vargr subspecies were bred to be less intelligent docile workers sort<BR>
of Newfie Vargr rather than Rottie Vargr while there are at least two dwarf<BR>
subspecies.  I remember mention of a very smart blind dwarf psi subspecies<BR>
which I picture as Psi Pug Vargr which had a master slave relationship to<BR>
the "Newfie Vargr".   Can anyone find the module and check?<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone play "racial" distinctions among the Vargr?  Short coarse coats<BR>
vs. long and curly, brown and spotty vs. solid, or long broad snout vs.<BR>
short and flat; or have the majority of the Vargr in your Traveller Universe<BR>
bred back over time to a  standard "mongrel" Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
Regards proto-wolf canines extant 300,000 years back, check a text on<BR>
vertebrate paleontology.  I've a rather good ones on the evolution of saber<BR>
tooth cats and horses. I'm sure that there are texts available on the<BR>
evolution of canines.  I do seem to remember from Historical Geology many<BR>
years back that  dire wolves were honking big critters but they may be a bit<BR>
to early.<BR>
<BR>
Ran a Merc campaign many years back, Broadsword with a mixed troop<BR>
compliment human and Vargr.  Did a covert attack on Draken Station set up as<BR>
a Vargr raider base with the original BEM crew still in low berth.  Part way<BR>
through the fight the BEM's started to wake up.  Talk about a nasty three<BR>
way fight!  It ended with Draken Station self distructing.<BR>
<BR>
Cry havoc and loose the Vargrs of War<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:37:14 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: "Its raining on planet Mongo!" (was RE: nudity and clothes)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
>Subject: RE: nudity and clothes<BR>
<BR>
>You missed off the old JTAS favorite:<BR>
>"Its raining on planet Mongo!"<BR>
<BR>
Which JTAS is that in?  I have to look it up now.  Lately, it's<BR>
been raining Zhodani ortillery on planet Mongo.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
Glenn M. Goffin, Esq.<BR>
Honorary Consul of the Government of<BR>
His Protuberant Majesty<BR>
Ming the Merciless<BR>
Ruler of Mongo<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 10:43:54 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Re MEn in Uniform [OT]<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>
><BR>
> In hot weather a light "dress" (aka SCA "robe") is a *lot* more<BR>
> comfortable than trousers *or* shorts.<BR>
<BR>
There's a polynesian "dress" that men wear a lot over here. Can't remember<BR>
the name for it, but I think it starts with 'm'. Mu-mu or something like<BR>
that.<BR>
<BR>
Also, the head of our police 'union' a few years back, used to wear a kaftan<BR>
most of the time, another culture's valid male "dress".<BR>
<BR>
I'm currently wearing (because it's quite hot outside) just a very large<BR>
T-shirt, one that comes to my knees when standing.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:49:40 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: It takes a Village<BR>
<BR>
At 9:43 -0500 7/1/00, "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net> wrote:<BR>
> > Dom (who increasingly likes the Consulate ;-) )<BR>
><BR>
>But would you LIVE there if given the chance?????? :) :)<BR>
<BR>
2 + years travel through space on a J-drive ship? - hell, yes!<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1699<BR>
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1699<BR>
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